---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/05/04: 69 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:05 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Stein Bruch) 2. 05:14 AM - Carbon panel (Dana Overall) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Ned Thomas) 4. 05:50 AM - Re: RSA Injection Basics, was (Help me stop my engine) . (linn walters) 5. 05:54 AM - New Grand Rapids 4000 EIS for sale (WALTER KERR) 6. 06:28 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Scott Bilinski) 7. 06:29 AM - Navaid Autopilot Operation (Ronnie Brown) 8. 06:43 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Alex Peterson) 9. 06:44 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Bob U.) 10. 06:48 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Dana Overall) 11. 06:54 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed) 12. 06:57 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Alex Peterson) 13. 07:10 AM - Re: shut-down procedure (Jason Sneed) 14. 07:15 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed) 15. 07:18 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Scott Bilinski) 16. 07:29 AM - Re: Re: shut-down procedure (Bob U.) 17. 07:29 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Scott Bilinski) 18. 07:29 AM - Fw: help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed) 19. 07:30 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed) 20. 07:35 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Darwin N. Barrie) 21. 07:51 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Jason Sneed) 22. 08:11 AM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Ross Schlotthauer) 23. 08:11 AM - Re: Re: shut-down procedure (Dave Bristol) 24. 08:15 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Scott Bilinski) 25. 08:20 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Dan Checkoway) 26. 08:44 AM - Alternators - Reliability, Preventive Replacement (RV_8 Pilot) 27. 08:46 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Bill Dube) 28. 08:48 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Darwin N. Barrie) 29. 09:01 AM - Safety Question (Kevin Warren) 30. 09:05 AM - Safety Question (Kevin Warren) 31. 09:24 AM - Re: Safety Question (Tedd McHenry) 32. 09:56 AM - Re: Safety Question (Scott Bilinski) 33. 09:56 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Darwin N. Barrie) 34. 10:00 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Steve Eberhart) 35. 10:11 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Dana Overall) 36. 10:15 AM - Cylinder Blocker (Kyle Boatright) 37. 10:29 AM - Re: Carbon panel (Steve Eberhart) 38. 11:01 AM - Re: Cylinder Blocker (Stein Bruch) 39. 11:13 AM - TruTrak Auto-pilot w/turn coordinator (Ken Simmons) 40. 11:30 AM - Re: Cylinder Blocker (Scott Bilinski) 41. 11:34 AM - Re: Safety Question (Kevin Warren) 42. 01:54 PM - Exhaust Bracket Failure (Bluecavu@aol.com) 43. 02:02 PM - iPAQ Pilot Log... (Bill VonDane) 44. 02:03 PM - iPAQ Pilot Log... (Bill VonDane) 45. 02:04 PM - Wood Prop... (Bill VonDane) 46. 02:05 PM - Wood Prop... (Bill VonDane) 47. 02:16 PM - Re: Wood Prop... (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 48. 02:38 PM - Re: iPAQ Pilot Log... (Rob Prior) 49. 02:39 PM - Re: Wood Prop... (Bob U.) 50. 02:41 PM - Re: alternator cooling (Doug Weiler) 51. 02:50 PM - Fw: Wood Prop... (Bill VonDane) 52. 02:58 PM - Re: Wood Prop... (Rob Prior) 53. 03:32 PM - Re: alternator cooling (Skylor Piper) 54. 03:39 PM - Exhaust Bracket Failure (Gabe A Ferrer) 55. 04:57 PM - Re: alternator maintenance (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 56. 05:24 PM - alternator notes (Wheeler North) 57. 05:24 PM - Re: Cylinder Blocker (Pat Hatch) 58. 05:50 PM - Re: Carbon panel (Bill Dube) 59. 06:04 PM - Re: Carbon panel (Bill Dube) 60. 06:25 PM - Oshkosh (Wheeler North) 61. 06:36 PM - Re: Carbon panel (Bill Dube) 62. 07:18 PM - Re: alternator notes (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 63. 07:33 PM - Re: alternator notes (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 64. 08:46 PM - Vetterman Crossover for sale (Steve Hamer) 65. 09:28 PM - Re: alternator cooling (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 66. 10:22 PM - wood props and IFR (Dj Merrill) 67. 11:19 PM - Re: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 68. 11:22 PM - Re: Exhaust Bracket Failure (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 69. 11:32 PM - Re: Help me stop my engine (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:05:28 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Oooops! I should have been more carefull about my rambling monologue!!! I should have stated my whole note was based more aimed at the RSA system. Realizing the RSA and AFP systems are very similar, but not identical. So....You've got to keep that in mind when reading my post...seems the AFP works a tad different in this area than the stock RSA systems, of which many never had/have a purge valve!! I should have remembered the 11th commandment..."Thou Shall not type long notes after midnight"! Cheers, Stein P.S., I'd still check the idle mixture adjustment! Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Jason, I want to reiterate what Terry said. Read the AFP manual and you'll see that they even state (I forget where, but it's in there), that pulling the mixture will still allow X fuel flow, and that the purge valve is the way they encourage shutdowns. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > Jason, > > I have heard that this is the biggest reason for installing the purge valve > with an Airflow Performance fuel injection system. For some reason the > mixture apparently doesn't always shut the fuel off enough to stop the > engine. Pulling the purge valve diverts the fuel from the injectors to the > return line and the engine quits. > > Note that this is not from my own experience. I am still at the wiring > stage, but my Superior XP-IO-360-B1B came from Bart with the purge valve > already installed. A call to Airflow Performance ought to get you an > authoritative answer. > > Terry > RV-8A #80729 wiring > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > > For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and > wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a > o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I > shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term > dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets > ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture > to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and > the master. > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:19 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" After seeing the carbon look alike panel at the fly-in last Saturday, my interest was sparked, to say the least. After looking around, talking around and phoning around.......I found the carbon panels on the market today were just way too expensive. I reverted to my plastic airplane days, grabbed a pane of glass, some carbon fiber, piece of rolled plastic, car wax and West System. I laid this up in about 20 minutes and popped it off the glass later on in the day. I'll end up my clear coated, UV protected real carbon fiber panel for next to nothing. This is just a test piece to determine the number of layups to get the thickness I want. This is three layers and measures right at 038. Certainly not for everyone and for sure do not archive this totally useless post:-) http://rvflying.tripod.com/carbonpanel.jpg Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:27 AM PST US From: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net> Dana, Can you give more details? Where to get the fabric and what to order, What to use for UV protection, eetc. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Carbon panel > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > After seeing the carbon look alike panel at the fly-in last Saturday, my > interest was sparked, to say the least. After looking around, talking > around and phoning around.......I found the carbon panels on the market > today were just way too expensive. I reverted to my plastic airplane days, > grabbed a pane of glass, some carbon fiber, piece of rolled plastic, car wax > and West System. I laid this up in about 20 minutes and popped it off the > glass later on in the day. I'll end up my clear coated, UV protected real > carbon fiber panel for next to nothing. This is just a test piece to > determine the number of layups to get the thickness I want. This is three > layers and measures right at 038. > > Certainly not for everyone and for sure do not archive this totally useless > post:-) > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/carbonpanel.jpg > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:50:52 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RSA Injection Basics, was (Help me stop my engine) . --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Stein, thanks for FI 101. I know more about the system than I did before. In my post, I read over the FI part. Sorry. As for the induction leak .... it just makes it easier for the small amount of fuel available to get enough air to burn. My question is with the purge valve. Is this a manual valve? If not, how does it distinguish between vapor and liquid??? Linn Stein Bruch wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >I'll pre-emp this by saying I'm not trying to flame anyone here, I just >can't think of the politically correct words to type, and since I'm a "tell >it like it is" kind of guy, here you go! > >OK....Time for a quick lesson on injection....Obviously more than a couple >people could use some basics on injection (really, I mean this helpfully, >not sarcastically). > >#1) The RSA/AFP injection systems are pretty simple, not much to go wrong. > >#2) The RSA/AFP injection system does NOT use a separate primer circuit at >all...see #3) > >#3) The RSA/AFP injection system is a constant flow system, meaning that >(hopefully) anytime the mixture is not in ICO, fuel is flowing into the >intake ports if either the engine is running or the mixture is not in ICO. >Priming is accomplished by moving the mixture to rich, and turning on the >boost pump for a specified amount of time (seems different on each persons >Lyc), usually 4-8 seconds. These fuel systems run around 20-30psi, instead >of 2-4psi for the carb's. > >#4) The AFP purge valve is usually installed to help starting, NOT stopping >a F.I. Lyc. The problem with the RSA type system that has the bare >Stainless Steel distribution lines above the cylinder, is that usually after >shutdown, the fuel remaining in distribution lines is boiled and ends up in >the intake ports, resulting in a "pseudo" flooded engine - more like just an >abundance of fuel/vapors. Since a typical FI system has the metered fuel >line running from the servo up to the spider on top of the engine routed >between cylinders #1 & #3, all of these components contribute to quick heat >soaking if fuel is not moving through them. The spider/flow divider has a >small ball/check valve installed in them to help with this phenomenon. > >#5) The thought behind the purge valve is to allow an operator to circulate >fresh cool fuel to the flow divider before starting the engine and gettin >rid of all the vapor bubbles in the line to that point. At least that's the >claim, in real life, I've seen little benefit on heat soaked engine/hot day >combinations between my -360 w/o a purge valve and the guys that have them >installed. Without electronic ignition, they all can be a bear to start >when hot/hot. > >#6) Using the purge valve to shutoff the engine is not a wise thing, you're >just "bandaiding" the real problem, which obviously is with the servo / ICO >itself. > >#7) The Servo uses "blast tubes" to measure the air moving through the >servo. These only start working above a normal idle, as at normal idle, the >butterfly is almost completely close. Hence the Idle circuit builit into >the servo. This is an adjustable circuit which allows the operator to adjust >a flow of fuel relative to the throttle being at idle. Like I just said, >the idle mixture adjustment is hooked to the throttle, NOT the mixture, so >you adjust the fuel flow at idle accordingly. > >Here's where I would start. Check the adjustment on the idle mixture arm, >it's the little square threaded portion with the spring keeper / star shaped >wheel in the center of it. Make sure that hasn't either moved a great deal >or even come disconnected. Make sure you are still getting a small rise in >RPM right before ICO. If not, then it's a prett good indication that the >idle mixture is out of adjustment. > >Either way, I would start with the idle mixture adjustment. This can be >done with the engine idling and you can adjust it with the engine running. >WARNING -DO NOT DO THIS ALONE, make sure someone is in the cockpit holding >the breaks, and WARNING - WATCH THE PROP, always keep one hand holding onto >the engine mount. The smart thing to do is basically sit on the wheel with >the L/G between your legs to keep yourself from accidentally falling into >the prop. This is for a TD, don'e know about a nosewheel airplane. If >you're not comfortable working on a running engine, DON'T do it, get someone >who is experienced to do it. Too many accidents have happened that way! > >The fact that you're having problems at slower idle would also point the the >above diagnosis. You should easily be able to get these things to lope >along at 550-650RPM. > >When idling, do you get any backfiring, or is the exhaust puffing white or >black colored smoke?? Also indicates something amiss with the idle mixture >or as mentioned earlier, a possible induction leak, althought an induction >lead shouldn't have any bearing on the engine continuing to get fuel after >ICO. > >OK, that's it for my rant. The idle mixture can be a finiky thing when out >of adjustment, so I'd start there. If no progress, then something else is >wrong. Last thing, check the mixture arm on the servo to make sure it has't >moved a notch or something like that - I've seen it happen! The servo's >should be good for at least 1500hrs, or engine TBO if taken care of and kept >in adjustment. Usually the rubber diaphrams wear out, and the throttle arm >bushings wear, but rarely to they just plain quit working. > >Best of luck, keep us informed! > >Cheers, >Stein Bruch >RV6's, Minneapolis (1 injected & 1 carb'd). > >http://www.steinair.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jason Sneed >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > >For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a >o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets >ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started >happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only >way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the >airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is >off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage >(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) >all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this >happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but >last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I >did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that >should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed >since the avblend and I still have the problem. > >Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? > > >Jason Sneed >Commercial Lending Officer >First National Bank and Trust >http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:07 AM PST US From: "WALTER KERR" Subject: RV-List: New Grand Rapids 4000 EIS for sale Seal-Send-Time: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:49:05 -0500 --> RV-List message posted by: "WALTER KERR" Never installed 4000 for sale. Save over $100. I ordered this unit thinking I would be ready to fly before Tracy Crook at RWS had his EIS ready for market for my 9A rotary. He held to schedule but I didn't :>( His unit is disigned with the rotary in mind so I would rather use it now. Call for details, I will pay for shipping Bernie Kerr 772 466 6701 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:35 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski AFP recommends turning off the engine by activating the fuel bypass valve. Pulling the mixture all the way back still allows enough fuel to barely keep the engine running. I tried killing the engine this way once, it was painful. At 11:17 PM 3/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" > >Lower your idle. >Jim > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jason Sneed" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed >> >> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a >> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets >> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started >> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only >> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the >> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is >> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage >> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) >> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this >> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but >> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I >> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that >> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed >> since the avblend and I still have the problem. >> >> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? >> >> >> Jason Sneed >> Commercial Lending Officer >> First National Bank and Trust >> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:16 AM PST US From: "Ronnie Brown" Subject: RV-List: Navaid Autopilot Operation --> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" For those of you who have the Navaid autopilot, read on. The rest of you can ignore this note. After flying my Velocity for a year, I decided to try to improve the operation of my Navaid autopilot. (Sorry, but I follow the RV list since there are 10 times more RV's than Velocities - you use the same engines and avionics as Velocities - thanks for the great answers and information!!!!) The Navaid has been working great in wing leveler mode - but I haven't been real happy with they way it tracked the GPS signals via the Porcine coupler. (I had already had the Porcine chip replaced because they had problems with the aviation data stream that comes out of panel mounted GPS's) I finally figured it out (after reading the manual again - for the 10th time!) I had "jinked" the servo for the correct trim position. The Navaid's left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns. I repeat "left hand knob is used to trim the plane for level flight, the right hand knob is used to make turns." If you are trying to fly straight and level, DO NOT USE the right hand knob - use the trim knob!!! (This is a duh-huh, but if you didn't understand this subtelty, it makes a huge difference!) When putting the Navaid in track mode - make sure the right hand knob is straight up. The trim knob is in what ever position is required to maintain straight ahead flight. Then after engaging track mode, use the trim knob to put the plane on course if the Navaid is not tracking the course as desired. This last sentence is critically important to getting good tracking performance. I used to cuss the Navaid because it didn't seem to be holding the correct track. If you use the trim knob to establish the plane on track, it tracks PERFECTLY!!!! A HAPPY NAVAID USER! Ronnie Brown ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:43:51 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and > wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a > 6 with a > o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I > shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term > dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown > fuel gets > ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture > to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and > the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started > happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only > way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck > out of the > airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while > everything else is > off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage > (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) > all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this > happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture > control but > last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The > only thing I > did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I > know that > should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed > since the avblend and I still have the problem. > > Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? > Something is likely wrong with the idle mixture. The idle mixture should be adjusted exactly per the AFP manual, it is spelled out in great detail there. You are correct in wondering what has changed, though. What happens if you run it at 1500 rpm, and pull the mixture out? Is the idle mixture linkage tight? Maybe it worked loose, and went rich. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 443 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:28 AM PST US From: "Bob U." Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." Jason Sneed wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > >For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a >o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets >ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started >happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. > >Jason Sneed >Commercial Lending Officer >First National Bank and Trust >http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html > True "dieseling", as I understand it, is caused by at least by at least one 'hotspot' in a combustion chamber. Sounds to me like something in the combustion chamber is acting like a glowplug. Rid yourself of that source and you may once again be a happy camper. I suggest reading the spark plugs for abnormalities and for carbon buildup. Also, check the the plugs for thin sharp edges while you're at it. Anybody got a borescope? Good luck. Bob ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:23 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "Ned Thomas" <315@cox.net> > >Dana, > >Can you give more details? Where to get the fabric and what to order, What >to use for UV protection, eetc. Ned, give me a couple weeks to work the process out and I'll post what I figure out. I am having a blank 7 slider panel shipped from Van's today. Myself, and another 7, will either make a mold for a solid carbon fiber panel or use the layup technique as an overlaid layup for an existing panel. The mold idea we are tossing around would include extended sides for the use of various air vents and an extended center section to handle the engine controls. I'll post the results. Looks inexpensive, trouble free and good though!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:54:21 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed Stein, thanks very much for the information, everything I have read states the purge valve is for startup also. I have never been able to find my idle mixture adjustment and my next door neighbor showed me what it looks like and where it is on his engine. I'll try to get someone with more experience to try and locate it for me. Today I did a little more testing and I am leaning toward the mixture control still. I notice that if I pull the mixture control back hard and when the control stops pull back even more with a lot of pressure I get a normal shutdown. I have not done this enough to conclude this is the problem but I am leaning in that direction. looks like if you pull the mixture back there may be a VERY small space between the stop with the added pulling you get rid of it and the shutdown occurs. I am going to try to tighten the cable and talk to the ANP that installed it. so 2 more questions... Does this sound like the culprit to you? Do you think I should not fly until this problem is solved? Can anything related to my issues damage the engine? I hope to work on the mixture control today but may not have time and would like to goto the Ocala fly in Sat. Also, I have a 4 cylinder probe grands rapids EIS and throughout this entire process I have noticed no abnormal EGT or CHT. One more piece of information is that it seems around when this problem started I have noticed the engine does not crank right up like it use to. I have to hold the starter button a little longer. When the engine does crank it seems to run pretty darn rough for about 5-7 seconds. I do not remember this happening before the problem. On Mar 5, 2004, at 2:03 AM, Stein Bruch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Oooops! I should have been more carefull about my rambling > monologue!!! > > I should have stated my whole note was based more aimed at the RSA > system. > > Realizing the RSA and AFP systems are very similar, but not identical. > > So....You've got to keep that in mind when reading my post...seems the > AFP > works a tad different in this area than the stock RSA systems, of > which many > never had/have a purge valve!! > > I should have remembered the 11th commandment..."Thou Shall not type > long > notes after midnight"! > > Cheers, > Stein > > P.S., I'd still check the idle mixture adjustment! > > Do Not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Jason, I want to reiterate what Terry said. Read the AFP manual and > you'll > see that they even state (I forget where, but it's in there), that > pulling > the mixture will still allow X fuel flow, and that the purge valve is > the > way they encourage shutdowns. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Watson" > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" >> >> Jason, >> >> I have heard that this is the biggest reason for installing the purge > valve >> with an Airflow Performance fuel injection system. For some reason >> the >> mixture apparently doesn't always shut the fuel off enough to stop the >> engine. Pulling the purge valve diverts the fuel from the injectors >> to > the >> return line and the engine quits. >> >> Note that this is not from my own experience. I am still at the >> wiring >> stage, but my Superior XP-IO-360-B1B came from Bart with the purge >> valve >> already installed. A call to Airflow Performance ought to get you an >> authoritative answer. >> >> Terry >> RV-8A #80729 wiring >> >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed >> >> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a >> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel >> gets >> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >> the master. >> >> > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:57:44 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > AFP recommends turning off the engine by activating the fuel > bypass valve. Pulling the mixture all the way back still > allows enough fuel to barely keep the engine running. I tried > killing the engine this way once, it was painful. This should not be - with AFP the engine should stop when at idle with the mixture pulled completely to ICO. Their instructions are very clear about how to adjust the idle mixture. If it doesn't quit when the mixture is pulled at idle, you are probably idling way too rich. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 443 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:57 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: RV-List: Re: shut-down procedure --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed This is what my airflow manual says to do but it does not work for me. When the engine is dieseling I even tried going to full throttle and it just keeps sputtering. Oddly enough if at the very end of shutdown and when the engine just starts to diesel I go full rich on the mixture the engine stops which makes NO sense to me. Thanks for all the help and suggestions! Jason On Mar 5, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Mlfred@aol.com wrote: > Hey Jason: > > I found a work-around for this run-on problem: > When you pull the mix to ICO, push the throttle about 1/2 open and the > thing will quit cleanly. Works every time for me...credit the old > round engine guys for this one... > > Stein had some other very good comments. > > cheers > Mark > Team Rocket > > Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? > > > Jason Sneed > Commercial Lending Officer > First National Bank and Trust > http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:23 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed It may very well be that a purge valve is what I may need. But, I did not have this problem for 300 hours so by adding a purge valve I would have never figured out why I started having this problem. When I get the engine back to running how it was I will look into adding the purge valve. Thanks for the info.... On Mar 5, 2004, at 8:22 AM, Scott Bilinski wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > AFP recommends turning off the engine by activating the fuel bypass > valve. > Pulling the mixture all the way back still allows enough fuel to barely > keep the engine running. I tried killing the engine this way once, it > was > painful. > > > At 11:17 PM 3/4/04 -0500, you wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" >> >> Lower your idle. >> Jim >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jason Sneed" >> To: >> Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine >> >> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed >>> >>> For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >>> wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with >>> a >>> o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >>> shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >>> dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel >>> gets >>> ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >>> to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >>> the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started >>> happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only >>> way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of >>> the >>> airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else >>> is >>> off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage >>> (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) >>> all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this >>> happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control >>> but >>> last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing >>> I >>> did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know >>> that >>> should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed >>> since the avblend and I still have the problem. >>> >>> Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? >>> >>> >>> Jason Sneed >>> Commercial Lending Officer >>> First National Bank and Trust >>> http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html >>> >>> >> >> > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > do not archive > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:16 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I will double check the manual but I and Dan (see previous post) remember reading that the bypass valve is used to stop the engine. I have talked with AFP several times over the last year and I asked them about this, they told me that pulling the mixture all the way back will not stop fuel flow 100%. To stop the engine use the bypass valve. At 08:48 AM 3/5/04 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > >> >> AFP recommends turning off the engine by activating the fuel >> bypass valve. Pulling the mixture all the way back still >> allows enough fuel to barely keep the engine running. I tried >> killing the engine this way once, it was painful. > >This should not be - with AFP the engine should stop when at idle with >the mixture pulled completely to ICO. Their instructions are very clear >about how to adjust the idle mixture. If it doesn't quit when the >mixture is pulled at idle, you are probably idling way too rich. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >RV6-A N66AP 443 hours > >http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:24 AM PST US From: "Bob U." Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: shut-down procedure --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." Jason Sneed wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > >This is what my airflow manual says to do but it does not work for me. >When the engine is dieseling I even tried going to full throttle and >it just keeps sputtering. Oddly enough if at the very end of shutdown >and when the engine just starts to diesel I go full rich on the mixture >the engine stops which makes NO sense to me. > >Thanks for all the help and suggestions! > >Jason > ========================================== Makes sense to me, if you have a combustion chamber hot spot. The raw fuel snuffs the hotspot, just like pouring water on a fire. Pull your plugs. See if you have a ton of soot. If so, the engine has been running far too rich in some mode. P.S. If I'm wrong, never mind. Bob ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:24 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski >I have never been able to find my idle mixture adjustment and my next >door neighbor showed me what it looks like and where it is on his >engine. I'll try to get someone with more experience to try and locate >it for me. Today I did a little more testing and I am leaning toward >the mixture control still. I notice that if I pull the mixture control >back hard and when the control stops pull back even more with a lot of >pressure I get a normal shutdown. I have not done this enough to >conclude this is the problem but I am leaning in that direction. looks >like if you pull the mixture back there may be a VERY small space >between the stop with the added pulling you get rid of it and the >shutdown occurs. I am going to try to tighten the cable and talk to the >ANP that installed it. Just a heads up the mixture adjustment is VERY sensitive on the AFP, and I think they call for a 25~50 RPM rise. Do you have the manual? It sounds like you dont. Did the A&P keep the manual? Do you have the bypass valve? If not, why not? I thought it came with the system. Do you have elect ign? If you do was the injection installed after the ign was? If so the mixture will be very rich. My engine was initially run with mags. Installed elect ign and had to lean it out 5 flats!!!! This is a huge adjustment. Now at idle my fuel flow 1.6 GPH. Before leaning it was about 4 GPH. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:24 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: RV-List: Fwd: help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed Begin forwarded message: > From: Mahlon_Russell@teledyne.com > Date: March 5, 2004 9:06:44 AM CST > To: n242ds@cox.net > Subject: help me stop my engine > > > Jason, I tried to post this to the list but I am not a member so it > didn't > go through..too bad I think it could be helpful to others. I monitor > the > list from the web and don't subscribe because I can't get any more > email > the I already get..just too much to deal with. so anyway I hope this > helps > you out! you might forward it to the list if you think it would help > others. > Jason, > From the description of your situation I think you might have two > problems. > For what is happening to your engine, you need to have a fuel supply > and a > ignition supply. It can not run-on or diesel without ignition and > fuel. So > it sounds to me like you have 1.) an ignition source you shouldn't > have and > also 2.) a fuel source you shouldn't have. Two independent systems and > two > different troubleshooting scenarios. > The way I would troubleshoot the problem is as follows: > Lets look at the fuel situation first. > The mixture control on the AFP fuel servo is not the Idle cut off > device, > if you have a purge valve. The idle cut off device is the purge/idle > cutoff > valve. To trouble shoot if it is working correctly, Place the mixture > control valve in full lean and the purge/Idle cutoff valve in idle > cutoff. > Disconnect the fuel injection lines at the fuel nozzles. Turn the boost > pump on and observe if there is fuel coming out any of the lines where > you > disconnected them from the nozzles. There should be no observable flow > at > the lines, an occasional drip is ok, but no flow allowed. If there is > flow, > you need to get the flow divider and purge/idle cutoff assembly > checked out > and or reworked. If there isn't any flow another way you can get fuel > into > the engine while you are trying to shut it off, is through a fuel > injection > nozzle that has a blocked air bleed or has a cracked line supplying it > fuel. The nozzles are vented and when you close the Idle cut-off valve > you > put a stop to fuel flow. The natural sucking action of the intake > system is > exposed to the outlet of the fuel nozzles in each intake port. The > vents in > the nozzles relive that suction, and no fuel is drawn from the lines, > into > the intake ports, to keep the engine running. If one of the vents is > restricted it will allow this suction to pull fuel out of the other > lines > and will keep the engine running. Likewise, a cracked line will allow > the > fuel to be drawn in, as it acts a relieve to the Idle cut-off valve. > It's > like putting a straw into a glass of soda. Put your finger on the end > of > the straw and you can lift the straw out of the soda and the soda will > stay > in the straw until you lift your finger and then the soda pours out of > the > straw. The crack in the line is acting like lifting your finger off > the end > of the straw. To check the nozzles for the clogged vent condition, > remove > them and blow into them with your mouth, while holding a finger over > the > outlet hole. You will then be blowing air into the nozzle and out the > vent. > If the vent is restricted or plugged you will be able to tell. To > check for > cracked line, do a visual inspection..common place for problems is > where > the ball end is silver soldered onto the line. Another place the > engine > can get fuel from is from an internal leak inside the servo. To check > this > remove the line that feeds the flow divider and plug it on the fuel > servo > side. Now turn the boost pump on for a minute or two. With the pump on > observe the impact tubes( small tubes pointing into the air flow) at > the > mouth of the servo. They should not have fuel coming out of them. If > they > do you need to get the servo serviced as the servo is acting like a > carburetor and supplying the fuel to keep the engine running. Lastly > if you > have the overboard drain from the engine driven fuel pump teed into the > intake manifold drain, the fuel pump could be leaking and supplying > fuel to > the intake system though the drain network. If you have the fuel pump > drain > "teed in" disconnect from the drain network temporarily, and see if the > engine shuts down OK. If it does, you need a new fuel pump. I assume > that > you don't have manual primmer system, if you do, disconnect it, to make > sure it isn't the source of the fuel. Other than these things there is > no > other way, that I know of, for fuel to get into the engine, so I think > it > must be one of these that is supplying the fuel for the engine to be > able > to run on. > Fixing the fuel situation will make the engine shut off but it won't > fix > problem 2.) which is how that fuel getting lit off with no ignition > source? > First thing we need to do is make sure the ignition systems are off > when we > think they are. To do this with the engine running, first turn off the > electronic ignition system and master switch then momentarily turn the > mag > off. When doing this you need to be quick, on the mag switch, as > letting > the engine run down for more that a second or so with the ignition > turned > off and than turning the ignition back on, can light off un-burnt fuel > that > has collected in the exhaust system and cause a rather loud backfire, > as > well as, possible exhaust system damage. The engine should quit if we > are > killing the ignition. If it doesn't we need to figure out which system > is > still on. To do this, I would disconnect the sparkplug leads for the > electronic system, start the engine on the mag, and then shut off the > mag, > if the engine continues to run, you have mag or mag switch issues, if > it > doesn't, I would reverse the situation and start on the electronic > system > and then shut it off. If the engine doesn't quit, you have electronic > ignition or wiring issues with it. Either of these situations are bad > as we > have a engine that can inadvertently start with prop movement, because > one > of the ignition systems is actually on, when we think it is off. Be > very > careful moving the prop on this engine, until you are sure that that > is a > safe practice!! If the engine does not quit, using either trouble > shooting > scenario, then we have a hot spot in the cylinders, that is acting > like a > glow plug, that was igniting the fuel, This is a bad thing that can > have > some potential catastrophic results for the engine, as it can cause > pre-ignition and eventually detonation. There is no easy way to > troubleshoot this but it is normally caused by an ignition system that > is > out of whack and not timed correctly or some really bad quality fuel. > If > you ran the engine using only one of the ignition systems, the > offending > one should be able to be discovered, in that the engine shouldn't > develop > the hot spot if the bad ignition source hasn't been turned on and used. > Therefore after a run with only one ignition system used and if it > shuts > down OK it should point the finger at the other system. That or a > complete > ignition systems tune up is in order. If you are using av-gas fuel > shouldn't be an issue. If you are using MoGas try some av-gas for a > while. > If you remove the fuel source and the ignition source you will have a > correctly configured system and an engine that will shut down. If you > only > fix the fuel system or the offending ignition system you will have an > engine that will shut down but still isn't configured the way it > should be. > If it's the fuel that's an issue you are lucky that the only problem > you > have is it won't shut off! > Hope this helps. > Good Luck, > Mahlon > > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:38 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > > Sputters if I shutdown at 600 rpm or 1300 rpm. Top plugs were pretty > clean, have not had time to pull the bottom yet. I have been told the > electronic ignition plugs are usually cleaner but I do not know that > from experience. > > Thanks! On Mar 5, 2004, at 8:48 AM, Alex Peterson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > >> >> AFP recommends turning off the engine by activating the fuel >> bypass valve. Pulling the mixture all the way back still >> allows enough fuel to barely keep the engine running. I tried >> killing the engine this way once, it was painful. > > This should not be - with AFP the engine should stop when at idle with > the mixture pulled completely to ICO. Their instructions are very > clear > about how to adjust the idle mixture. If it doesn't quit when the > mixture is pulled at idle, you are probably idling way too rich. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 443 hours > > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:30 AM PST US From: "Darwin N. Barrie" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" Carbon panels are well within the range of anyone who has the fortitude to build the plane. Dana is correct that many of the commercially available panels are expensive but they are beautifully done with beveled instrument holes, deep finish and perfect fit. To do this at home to simulate the commercial versions a vacuum bagging system would be necessary. Vacuum bagging will provide an even surface, lighter product because less epoxy is needed and the deep finish. I've had experience vacuum bagging model airplane sailplane wings with carbon and glass where strength and weight is an issue. In the case of making a decorative panel cover for our panel strength is not an issue but we obviously want to keep it light. I would simply use a layer of 6 oz glass then a layer of 5.9 oz carbon fiber cloth. The carbon is there to give the look the glass is there to save you money. You could do this as a flat panel then cut it to the instrument panel or you could use the panel as your plate. Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Carbon panel > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > After seeing the carbon look alike panel at the fly-in last Saturday, my > interest was sparked, to say the least. After looking around, talking > around and phoning around.......I found the carbon panels on the market > today were just way too expensive. I reverted to my plastic airplane days, > grabbed a pane of glass, some carbon fiber, piece of rolled plastic, car wax > and West System. I laid this up in about 20 minutes and popped it off the > glass later on in the day. I'll end up my clear coated, UV protected real > carbon fiber panel for next to nothing. This is just a test piece to > determine the number of layups to get the thickness I want. This is three > layers and measures right at 038. > > Certainly not for everyone and for sure do not archive this totally useless > post:-) > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/carbonpanel.jpg > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:05 AM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: Re: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed Yes I have the manual but maybe it is old the amount of info in it is minimal. The system was installed in 97 and has 300 hours on it. Bypass valve did not come with it. Yes I have a jeff rose EI on the bottom plugs. As far as I know the EI and FI was installed at the same time. At idle my fuel flow is about 1.4 according to the flow scan and analog fuel flow gauge. On Mar 5, 2004, at 9:23 AM, Scott Bilinski wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > >> I have never been able to find my idle mixture adjustment and my next >> door neighbor showed me what it looks like and where it is on his >> engine. I'll try to get someone with more experience to try and locate >> it for me. Today I did a little more testing and I am leaning toward >> the mixture control still. I notice that if I pull the mixture control >> back hard and when the control stops pull back even more with a lot of >> pressure I get a normal shutdown. I have not done this enough to >> conclude this is the problem but I am leaning in that direction. looks >> like if you pull the mixture back there may be a VERY small space >> between the stop with the added pulling you get rid of it and the >> shutdown occurs. I am going to try to tighten the cable and talk to >> the >> ANP that installed it. > > Just a heads up the mixture adjustment is VERY sensitive on the AFP, > and I > think they call for a 25~50 RPM rise. > > Do you have the manual? It sounds like you dont. Did the A&P keep the > manual? > > Do you have the bypass valve? If not, why not? I thought it came with > the > system. > > Do you have elect ign? If you do was the injection installed after the > ign > was? If so the mixture will be very rich. My engine was initially run > with > mags. Installed elect ign and had to lean it out 5 flats!!!! This is a > huge > adjustment. Now at idle my fuel flow 1.6 GPH. Before leaning it was > about 4 > GPH. > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > do not archive > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:03 AM PST US From: "Ross Schlotthauer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Schlotthauer" John, Call airflow performance. They are very familiar with this problem and as I understand it, it is the biggest weakness in the AFP system. Ross Schlotthauer RV-7 >From: Jason Sneed >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 21:58:34 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > >For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and >wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a >o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I >shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term >dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets >ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture >to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and >the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started >happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only >way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the >airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is >off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage >(exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) >all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this >happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but >last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I >did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that >should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed >since the avblend and I still have the problem. > >Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? > > >Jason Sneed >Commercial Lending Officer >First National Bank and Trust >http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html > > Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:40 AM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: shut-down procedure --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Jason, Don't want beat a dead horse here but the purge valve WILL solve both the shut down hot start problems. I put up with difficult starting and stopping for 2 years before I installed one and I wouldn't even consider not having one on an AFP system. Dave Jason Sneed wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed > >This is what my airflow manual says to do but it does not work for me. >When the engine is dieseling I even tried going to full throttle and >it just keeps sputtering. Oddly enough if at the very end of shutdown >and when the engine just starts to diesel I go full rich on the mixture >the engine stops which makes NO sense to me. > >Thanks for all the help and suggestions! > >Jason > > >On Mar 5, 2004, at 8:19 AM, Mlfred@aol.com wrote: > > > >>Hey Jason: >> >>I found a work-around for this run-on problem: >>When you pull the mix to ICO, push the throttle about 1/2 open and the >>thing will quit cleanly. Works every time for me...credit the old >>round engine guys for this one... >> >>Stein had some other very good comments. >> >>cheers >>Mark >>Team Rocket >> >>Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? >> >> >>Jason Sneed >>Commercial Lending Officer >>First National Bank and Trust >>http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html >> >> >> > > >Jason Sneed >Commercial Lending Officer >First National Bank and Trust > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:15 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Another great source with very good prices.........at least when I last bought from them 2 years ago..... http://johnrsweet.com/ At 08:29 AM 3/5/04 -0700, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" > >Carbon panels are well within the range of anyone who has the fortitude to >build the plane. Dana is correct that many of the commercially available >panels are expensive but they are beautifully done with beveled instrument >holes, deep finish and perfect fit. > >To do this at home to simulate the commercial versions a vacuum bagging >system would be necessary. Vacuum bagging will provide an even surface, >lighter product because less epoxy is needed and the deep finish. > >I've had experience vacuum bagging model airplane sailplane wings with >carbon and glass where strength and weight is an issue. In the case of >making a decorative panel cover for our panel strength is not an issue but >we obviously want to keep it light. > >I would simply use a layer of 6 oz glass then a layer of 5.9 oz carbon fiber >cloth. The carbon is there to give the look the glass is there to save you >money. You could do this as a flat panel then cut it to the instrument panel >or you could use the panel as your plate. > >Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy >supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. > >Darwin N. Barrie >Chandler AZ >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dana Overall" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Carbon panel > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >> >> After seeing the carbon look alike panel at the fly-in last Saturday, my >> interest was sparked, to say the least. After looking around, talking >> around and phoning around.......I found the carbon panels on the market >> today were just way too expensive. I reverted to my plastic airplane >days, >> grabbed a pane of glass, some carbon fiber, piece of rolled plastic, car >wax >> and West System. I laid this up in about 20 minutes and popped it off the >> glass later on in the day. I'll end up my clear coated, UV protected real >> carbon fiber panel for next to nothing. This is just a test piece to >> determine the number of layups to get the thickness I want. This is three >> layers and measures right at 038. >> >> Certainly not for everyone and for sure do not archive this totally >useless >> post:-) >> >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/carbonpanel.jpg >> >> >> Dana Overall >> Richmond, KY i39 >> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >> Finish kit >> 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg >> http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg >> do not archive >> >> One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page download MSN Toolbar now! >> http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:34 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy > supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. FYI, Spruce sells carbon for half the price of CST. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bigraphite.php do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:58 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RV-List: Alternators - Reliability, Preventive Replacement --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" Now we're getting into a topic that interests me. Alternator reliability and preventive replacement. Knowing I can purchase an alternator for $38 to $18 is good. What I don't know is what's the typical lifespan for these pieces of equipment when used in an aircraft and turning faster than typical automotive applications. As far as a failure mode, I worry about shaft bearings. They're a pretty high rpm component, with questionable sealed lubrication and questionable cooling (got external cooling, but who knows just how adequate it really is). Even though it has almost 4 yrs and 600 hrs of trouble free operation, I'm considering replacing mine on a *preventive* basis Spending $40 now to replace a 75% "used" alternator is much better than the thing locking up, burning up the drive belt and possibly damaging something nearby. Not to mention the pain in the a## of it happening away from home and either having to fix it or fly home on battery alone. Any thoughts on preventive replacement? Who's had Van's alternator failures? Why did it fail? How many hours was it used? Did you have cooling? Lots of questions, but even a few answered will help us all (me!) make better decisions. Bryan Jones -8 www.LoneStarSquadron.com Houston, Texas >One person's experiences with an alternator is not a definitive study. >What >ever experience that person has is 100% for him and him alone. It may or >may >not be a generalized condition. It may be that one case in 1000s that >sometimes happens. If it is a failure then every thing is o.k. but if it >is >the one case of success, then we have big problems. Reiterating one's >opinion doesn't change the overall failure rate. Remember most of us are >Amateur Builders. Of course, we have strong opinions, but they aren't >necessarily the silent majorities nor statistically significant. They can >be >used for guidance. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:50 AM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > >I would simply use a layer of 6 oz glass then a layer of 5.9 oz carbon fiber >cloth. The carbon is there to give the look the glass is there to save you >money. You could do this as a flat panel then cut it to the instrument panel >or you could use the panel as your plate. > >Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy >supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. I like these folks. They are very helpful and also have some nifty "how-to" videos. http://www.fibreglast.com/ They are a bit pricey, however. I would suggest that you do the lay-up with a combination of carbon fiber and Kevlar. The carbon fiber has poor impact resistance and cracks rather easily. Backing the carbon layer(s) with a Kevlar layer greatly enhances the impact resistance and arrests cracks even before they become apparent. Where you can afford the thickness, it would be wise to add a thin sheet of foam, balsa, or honeycomb into the lay-up. 1/4" or 1/8" of any of these materials in the middle of the lay-up is all it will take. This will make the panel MUCH stronger. You could use a glass plate for a form, but I much prefer Formica. With just a little wax, it releases very easily and leaves a very nice surface finish. You can also drill it, cut it, glue it, and bend it into simple curved shapes. Drilling and gluing allow you to easily secure mold "plugs" for instrument recesses, switch recesses, vents, etc. You can also drill a hole or two, (then carefully fill with bee's wax,) so you can blow the part loose with compressed air when it has cured. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:48:37 AM PST US From: "Darwin N. Barrie" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" You're right ACS is cheaper. Darwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy > > supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. > > FYI, Spruce sells carbon for half the price of CST. > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bigraphite.php > > do not archive > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:36 AM PST US From: "Kevin Warren" Subject: RV-List: Safety Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Warren" Has anyone read any NTSB reports of RVs doing an endo (flipping upside-down) in rough field landing or the like? I was trying to envision an emergency egress strategy in the event such a thing happened, especially if fuel were leaking. Thanks, Kevin ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:16 AM PST US From: "Kevin Warren" Subject: RV-List: Safety Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Warren" Has anyone read any NTSB reports of RVs flipping upside-down in rough field landing or the like? I was trying to envision an emergency egress strategy in the event such a thing happened, especially if fuel were leaking. Thanks, Kevin ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:13 AM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Safety Question --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, Kevin Warren wrote: > Has anyone read any NTSB reports of RVs doing an endo (flipping upside-down) Kevin: Yes, there have been accidents like that. Many RVers carry military-style canopy breakout knives. There's lots of discussion in the archives about that. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:31 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Safety Question --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Actually its quite common it end up inverted. Yes you need something to break the canopy. At 11:04 AM 3/5/04 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Warren" > > >Has anyone read any NTSB reports of RVs flipping upside-down in rough field >landing or the like? I was trying to envision an emergency egress strategy >in the event such a thing happened, especially if fuel were leaking. > > >Thanks, >Kevin > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:35 AM PST US From: "Darwin N. Barrie" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" I would not recommend Kevlar for this application because at some point you are going to have to sand the edges to conform to the panel. Kevlar will "fuzz" with no method to recover. Good points on sandwiching things for added depth. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dube" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > > > > > >I would simply use a layer of 6 oz glass then a layer of 5.9 oz carbon fiber > >cloth. The carbon is there to give the look the glass is there to save you > >money. You could do this as a flat panel then cut it to the instrument panel > >or you could use the panel as your plate. > > > >Carbon and glass is available from www.CSTsales.com This is where I buy > >supplies for my model lay-ups. They also have vacuum bagging video. > > I like these folks. They are very helpful and also have some nifty > "how-to" videos. http://www.fibreglast.com/ > > They are a bit pricey, however. > > I would suggest that you do the lay-up with a combination of > carbon fiber and Kevlar. The carbon fiber has poor impact resistance and > cracks rather easily. Backing the carbon layer(s) with a Kevlar layer > greatly enhances the impact resistance and arrests cracks even before they > become apparent. > > Where you can afford the thickness, it would be wise to add a thin > sheet of foam, balsa, or honeycomb into the lay-up. 1/4" or 1/8" of any of > these materials in the middle of the lay-up is all it will take. This will > make the panel MUCH stronger. > > You could use a glass plate for a form, but I much prefer Formica. > With just a little wax, it releases very easily and leaves a very nice > surface finish. You can also drill it, cut it, glue it, and bend it into > simple curved shapes. Drilling and gluing allow you to easily secure mold > "plugs" for instrument recesses, switch recesses, vents, etc. You can also > drill a hole or two, (then carefully fill with bee's wax,) so you can blow > the part loose with compressed air when it has cured. > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:47 AM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart Bill Dube wrote: > I would suggest that you do the lay-up with a combination of > carbon fiber and Kevlar. The carbon fiber has poor impact resistance and > cracks rather easily. Backing the carbon layer(s) with a Kevlar layer > greatly enhances the impact resistance and arrests cracks even before they > become apparent. Dana and I are still in the development stage on the carbon fiber panel so the jury is still out - but we have a pretty good idea of where we are going to end up. We are more interrested in having the look of a carbon fiber panel than we are in the structural and/or weight advantages. We decided early on that Kevlar probably wasn't going to be in the final solution. More because it is simply a pain to work with than anything else. I just don't know how to make all of the instrument cut outs, holes and trim the final edges. Kevlar is so tough that it resists cutting. On an instrument panel, you would have little "frizzies" where ever you had to cut through it. And, you can't sand them away, they just get worse the more you try to sand them. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:19 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" For those who have not worked with Kevlar.....my opinion of it is it is too hard to work with, too hard to cut and the edges are totally unacceptable in our applications. Formica, sure you can but I wanted a gloss finish and get much better results from plate glass. You can get different finishes with formica. In the picture posted, I used three layers of 5.7 set at 90,45 & 90. On a full carbon panel, I'm thinking some carbon fiber angles made by laying up on a 3/4 x 3/4 piece of angle alum as reinforcement instead of using foam as panel space pretty well uses up available area. All good ideas but may not be very practical for a panel, we'll see. Just to bond a sheet onto an existing panel, just have at least two layers to make sure you don't see the alum through the layup, scuff the panel and "stick" the cured layup on. I think when we get done playing with this mold thing though, you might be pleasently surprised:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:15:49 AM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" One thing I'm planning to do during this year's condition inspection is add a cylinder blocker in front of the #1 cylinder, which (hopefully) will reduce the 40 or so degree CHT difference between #3 and the rest of the cylinders. There is plenty in the archives on the effectiveness of this technique, but I can't find a picture or any specifics on how tall to make the blocker in front of the head vs in front of the barrel of the cylinder. I'd sure appreciate some dimensions and/or a picture to use as a go-by or at least to give me a good starting point. Thanks in advance, Kyle Boatright ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:29:41 AM PST US From: Steve Eberhart Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Eberhart I coundn't do that again if I tried. Just imagine a cup of coffee on the desk, notebook computer in your lap and the phone rings. When the incident was all through playing out, the coffee was covering the desk, phone was in hand and the unfinished e-mail reply was sent. Oh well. Here is how I was going to finish my last post: Bill Dube wrote: > > I would suggest that you do the lay-up with a combination of > carbon fiber and Kevlar. The carbon fiber has poor impact resistance and > cracks rather easily. Backing the carbon layer(s) with a Kevlar layer > greatly enhances the impact resistance and arrests cracks even before they > become apparent. > > Where you can afford the thickness, it would be wise to add a thin > sheet of foam, balsa, or honeycomb into the lay-up. 1/4" or 1/8" of any of > these materials in the middle of the lay-up is all it will take. This will > make the panel MUCH stronger Dana and I are still in the development stage on the carbon fiber panel so the jury is still out - but we have a pretty good idea of where we are going to end up. We are more interrested in having the look of a carbon fiber panel than we are in the structural and/or weight advantages we might gain from the composites. We decided early on that Kevlar probably wasn't going to be in the final solution. More because it is simply a pain to work with than anything else. I just don't know how to make all of the instrument cut outs, holes and trim the final edges. Kevlar is so tough that it resists cutting. On an instrument panel, you would have little "frizzies" where ever you had to cut through it. And, you can't sand them away, they just get worse the more you try to sand them. I do like the idea of using the Rutan sandwich construction techniques to strengthen the panel. We will probably do that around the radio stack but not anywhere else. The main reason is, we are going to use this panel on three RV-7's that are under construction. As is usually the case, no two panels are alike. Making all of the panels the same, without the internal core material, we can make instrument cutouts where ever we want. I have had good experiences buying carbon from http://www.discountcomposite.com/ infact, this is where the carbon we are using came from. Stay tuned. As in every development project, everything is subject to change :-) Steve Eberhart RV-7A - still working on wings and now the panel as well ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:59 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi Kyle, I have the "poor mans" cylinder blocker. I've been using a piece of Stainless Steel tape, trimmed to about 1" high stuck to the front cylinder and ramps. It took me about 5 hours to get just the right height to even out the CHT temps, but now I've gotten them all within 5 degrees of each other in normal flying. Most of the time, they are within 2-3 degrees, and I don't think you can get any better than that! Now that I have the size determined, I'm going to fabricate some .020" blockers out of AL, and just rivet them to the lower ramps. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Subject: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" One thing I'm planning to do during this year's condition inspection is add a cylinder blocker in front of the #1 cylinder, which (hopefully) will reduce the 40 or so degree CHT difference between #3 and the rest of the cylinders. There is plenty in the archives on the effectiveness of this technique, but I can't find a picture or any specifics on how tall to make the blocker in front of the head vs in front of the barrel of the cylinder. I'd sure appreciate some dimensions and/or a picture to use as a go-by or at least to give me a good starting point. Thanks in advance, Kyle Boatright ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:36 AM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: RV-List: TruTrak Auto-pilot w/turn coordinator --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" Trutrak has their new autopilot with the turn coordinator out called the Pictorial Pilot. They also have a turn coordinator only instrument. Both use a solid state gyro. I saw it in Sport Avaiation, but they haven't updated the website yet. They told me it would be updated shortly. Someone needs to buy one of these and test it so I know if I want one. Ha! Seriously, it would be great if someone could take a look at Sun 'n Fun and give us a report. Thanks. Ken DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:30:54 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski >I'm going to fabricate some .020" >blockers out of AL, and just rivet them to the lower ramps. Exactly what I did. I had a 30 degree difference with cyl 1 being the lowest. Put a 1 inch hi wall in front of the fins on cyl #1 and now in normal cruise my temps are all same at 335 +- 1 on all cylinders. I never though getting cyl temps that close was possible. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 do not archive ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:25 AM PST US From: "Kevin Warren" Subject: RE: RV-List: Safety Question --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Warren" I've seen pictures of various tools kept in the cockpit for breaking the plexi - The question should have been more specific and I guess it's pretty much been answered... is there enough room to squeeze out? It appears that for the average person at least, there is. Thanks! Kevin ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 01:54:57 PM PST US From: Bluecavu@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure --> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed every 100 hours or so.=A0 sounds like you might have a problem with vibration. until you get it solved, you will continually be replacing stuff like this. investing in a dynamic balance might be easily worth it -not to mention the increased comfort. -scott ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:44 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: iPAQ Pilot Log... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Anyone know of a good, free, pilot logbook for the iPAQ? -Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:48 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: iPAQ Pilot Log... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Anyone know of a good, free, pilot logbook for the iPAQ? -Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:36 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Wood Prop... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? -Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:04 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Wood Prop... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? -Bill do not archive ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:51 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Wood Prop... --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Why not a catholic? Sorry. In a message dated 3/5/04 5:05:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bill@vondane.com writes: > > Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? > > -Bill > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:52 PM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: iPAQ Pilot Log... --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior Bill VonDane wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Anyone know of a good, free, pilot logbook for the iPAQ? By far the most flexible, is Pocket Excel, which comes with the iPaq. Set up whatever columns you want, and track them. I looked for ages for a better (and free) program, and never found one. There's one that's quite good called DS Pilot Log, it was the best of the dedicated programs that I could find, and it was reasonably economical ($20, I think). It looks like the interface has changed since I last used it, it's up to version 2.0 now. But i've since switched back to Palm, the iPaq's inability to interface with anything but a Windows PC started to become an issue (I run Linux at home). My Tungsten T3 is smaller, lighter, faster, and syncs to all of my computers. -Rob ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:46 PM PST US From: "Bob U." Subject: Re: RV-List: Wood Prop... --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." In a message dated 3/5/04 5:05:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bill@vondane.com writes: >Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? > >-Bill >do not archive > Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > >Why not a catholic? Sorry. > ====================================== Show some respect. Please use a capital "C". Bob Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:03 PM PST US From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > > Jim in Kelowna > > From: "LarryRobertHelming" > Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" > > > > With using a blast air tube for cooling the alternator, is there any > concern > > about flying into rain and having rain water coming through the tube onto > > the back of the alternator? > > > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak JeffRose > > Firewall Forward > Just a comment on alternators. I too had problems with Van's Honda alternator in my previously RV-4. Bought another from Vans. The new owner just reported to me that it has conked out again. I installed a B&C 40 amp alternator in my new RV-4. B&C tells me they have sold thousands and almost no reported failures. They are a well engineered unit as you all know. Not cheap, but reliable. Then the question arises, how come, after 10 years of use, the alternator in my 1993 Saturn finally failed. 120,000 plus miles which I figured translated to over 3000 hours of use. Now that's reliability!! Doug Weiler Hudson, WI ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:03 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Fw: RV-List: Wood Prop... vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Damn spell checkers! I guess "protectant" is not a work, or at least not one to Bill Gates... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Wood Prop... --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Why not a catholic? Sorry. In a message dated 3/5/04 5:05:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bill@vondane.com writes: > > Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? > > -Bill > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:26 PM PST US From: Rob Prior Subject: Re: RV-List: Wood Prop... --> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior I didn't think Catholics were permitted to use protectants. 8-P -Rob Do not archive. Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > Why not a catholic? Sorry. > > > In a message dated 3/5/04 5:05:30 PM US Eastern Standard Time, > bill@vondane.com writes: > > >>Can anyone suggest a good wax, or other protestant to apply to a wood prop? >> >>-Bill >>do not archive >> >> >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:08 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper Sounds like the Bronco II I got rid of last year. Had it for 14 years, 309,000 miles (no typos there). It was still running on the original engine build AND alternator when I donated it!!! --- Doug Weiler wrote: > Then the question arises, how come, after 10 years > of use, the alternator in > my 1993 Saturn finally failed. 120,000 plus miles > which I figured > translated to over 3000 hours of use. Now that's > reliability!! > > Doug Weiler > Hudson, WI > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ http://search.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:14 PM PST US From: "Gabe A Ferrer" Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure --> RV-List message posted by: "Gabe A Ferrer" Call Vetterman at 605 745 5932. He has a "new" exhaust mounting kit that works. I got it from him for $10. No problems for 105 hours. Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX 105 hours South Florida Email: ferrergm@bellsouth.net Cell: 561 758 8894 Night Phone: 561 622 0960 Fax: 561 622 0960 ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 04:57:55 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator maintenance --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com After 100 K to 150 K miles (1000 hours? given the higher RPM) its pretty normal for alternator brushes to wear out. They can be replaced for about $5 or $6. Its a good investment in preventative maintenance if you have gotten this far with the alternator. Let it go too long and the slip rings will get ruined. Alternators are very easy to work on. Mark the case so you can get it back the same way, not 90 or 120 or 180 degrees out. Most have a hole where you load and hold the brushes with a plastic or wooden stick -- the new brushes sometimes come with the stick. Pull it out after you put the case halves back together. Dan RV-7A (almost done) In a message dated 3/5/04 6:33:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time, skylor4@yahoo.com writes: > --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper > > > Sounds like the Bronco II I got rid of last year. Had > it for 14 years, 309,000 miles (no typos there). It > was still running on the original engine build AND > alternator when I donated it!!! > > > --- Doug Weiler wrote: > > >Then the question arises, how come, after 10 years > >of use, the alternator in > >my 1993 Saturn finally failed. 120,000 plus miles > >which I figured > >translated to over 3000 hours of use. Now that's > >reliability!! > > > >Doug Weiler > >Hudson, WI > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:09 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: alternator notes --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Without the battery any changing load device will cause the VR to have a hard time keeping the V stable since a sudden change in load will not be compensated for by the battery at the speed of light and electrons coming out of it. It takes time for the VR to wind up the field's magnetism which is much slower to react. The battery also provides a large stable "sense" reservoir for the VR to sense and adjust its output as needed. by the by, a few technical additions to the below, a DC generator "field" is actually AC, the commutator causes this, but the armature sees it as DC since the phase of the armature and field are aligned for that to happen. Although alternators are "schematically" phased 120degs they are actually wound to have a bunch of three phase events per actual "pulley" revolution. (this is what destroys most student's brains when trying to understand my alternator lessons) But because diodes need a small amount of voltage to switch they don't completely get rid of the AC on top of the DC. Most diode rectifiers have a 4th bridge pair that I think is used to compare V for the internal regulator so it knows when a failure is occuring in a main diode. This is how it knows when to activate the idiot light. But I've never proven this. But I mention it so you don't get worried if you see eight diodes when you are looking for six in the rectifier plate. RE Vans units. I have seen/repaired about ten of these units now, and none of them are the same in regards to their delivered condition. The last one I saw was not rebuilt by any stretch of the imagination, and Vans didn't question paying the bill for it to be fixed properly. It needed a new regulator, a rectifier and a good bath. So the variety of failures you folks have discribed (many years to 35 hours) is no surprise. RE cooling, the denso's cool from either end as the inlets and then out the side outlets. If you want to blast them, blast the back where the rectifier plate is, but blast into the end port, not into one of the side ports. They are mostly rain proof. The only place where water could cause a problem is on the field brushes, and these are ususally somewhat well covered. I wouldn't try driving one underwater though, regardless of the results produced by Mr. Denver's experiments. Even if the brushes do get wet the field only sees an amp or so at most. W Time: 09:29:31 AM PST US From: "Cy Galley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys --> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" How can you get the battery out of the circuit? It must be there for no other reason than to excite the field. STATOR Surrounding the rotor is another set of coils, three in number, called the stator. The stator is fixed to the shell of the alternator, and does not turn. As the rotor turns within the stator windings, the magnetic field of the rotor sweeps through the stator windings, producing an electrical current in the windings. Because of the rotation of the rotor, an alternating current is produced. As, for example, the north pole of the magnetic field approaches one of the stator windings, there is little coupling taking place, and a weak current is produced, As the rotation continues, the magnetic field moves to the center of the winding, where maximum coupling takes place, and the induced current is at its peak. As the rotation continues to the point that the magnetic field is leaving the stator winding, the induced current is small. By this time, the south pole is approaching the winding, producing a weak current in the opposite direction. As this continues, the current produced in each winding plotted against the angle of rotation of the rotor has the form shown in figure 2. The three stator windings are spaced inside the alternator 120 degrees apart, producing three separate sets, or "phases," of output voltages, spaced 120 degrees apart, as shown in figure 3. OUTPUT DIODES A/C voltage is of little use in a D/C system, such as used in an airplane, so it has to be converted to D/C before it can be used. This conversion to D/C takes place in the "output diodes" and in the "diode trio." Diodes have the property of allowing current to flow in only one direction, while blocking current flow in the other direction. The output diodes consist of six diodes, one pair for each winding. One of the pair is for the negative half cycle, and the other for the positive half cycle. As a result of this diode rectification, the output of the alternator looks as shown in figure 4. Surprisingly enough, the output of the alternator is not a pure D/C as one might expect, but a pulsating D/C. Because there are three windings, each with a positive and a negative half, by the time the voltage is passed through the diodes, there are six pulsations for each rotation of the rotor. This is close enough to D/C for most automotive components. Critical components, such as radios, have their own internal filtering circuits to further smooth out the waveform to a purer D/C. This doesn't look like your quoted 99% to me. ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:09 PM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" Kyle, I also had about a 40 degree difference between cylinders 1 & 3 and fixed it with the blocker as you describe. Here is a picture for reference. http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=134196&ck You can start with speed tape or something similar until you get the right size, but the size shown will get you pretty close. Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 QB (Building) Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: RV-List: Cylinder Blocker > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" > > One thing I'm planning to do during this year's condition inspection is add a cylinder blocker in front of the #1 cylinder, which (hopefully) will reduce the 40 or so degree CHT difference between #3 and the rest of the cylinders. There is plenty in the archives on the effectiveness of this technique, but I can't find a picture or any specifics on how tall to make the blocker in front of the head vs in front of the barrel of the cylinder. > > I'd sure appreciate some dimensions and/or a picture to use as a go-by or at least to give me a good starting point. > > Thanks in advance, > > Kyle Boatright > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:47 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 10:56 AM 3/5/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin N. Barrie" > >I would not recommend Kevlar for this application because at some point you >are going to have to sand the edges to conform to the panel. Kevlar will >"fuzz" with no method to recover. Indeed, you will get fuzz at the edges. It is possible to trim any exposed edges with rubber molding, etc. ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 06:04:28 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 01:11 PM 3/5/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > >For those who have not worked with Kevlar.....my opinion of it is it is too >hard to work with, too hard to cut and the edges are totally unacceptable in >our applications. Actually, it can be easy to cut if you buy cheap scissors instead of expensive ones. Look for scissors that have a coarsely-ground cutting edge. $5 or $6 plastic-handle office scissors. The high-quality scissors have a very smooth, finely-ground cutting edge. The Kevlar slides a bit, wads up, and jams in the scissors. The cheap scissors have a rough enough cutting edge to grip the cloth so it doesn't slip and wad up. After a while the coarse edge starts to smooth out and the cheap scissors don't work so well to cut Kevlar. At that point, you can either regrind them with a course wheel, retire them to fiberglass and carbon cutting, or simply throw them away. > Formica, sure you can but I wanted a gloss finish and get >much better results from plate glass. You can get different finishes with >formica. In the picture posted, I used three layers of 5.7 set at 90,45 & >90. On a full carbon panel, I'm thinking some carbon fiber angles made by >laying up on a 3/4 x 3/4 piece of angle alum as reinforcement instead of >using foam as panel space pretty well uses up available area. An 1/8" or 1/16" sheet of balsa in the lay-up should not take up much room and will keep the panel from flexing or "oil canning". The balsa will bond much better to the epoxy and will not cause cracking with temperature changes. ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:05 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Dang you, Kosta I'm ready for it to be summer..... maybe if I fly there during spring break I can camp out and pretend there's a flyin going on!!! Ya know, there's usually enough mosquitos there for that to actually work. ;{( I have to agree with Michael, the Cabelas seem to be really nice. I don't have one yet as I have the REI three man, or woman, or any combination thereof, Taj-3 that seems to work perfectly for one person and weighs under 8 lbs. So far its survived five flyins including two weeks at Oshkosh and one week at Arlington. But if my wife ever decides to join me I'm getting the Cabela cadillac even though it weighs 23 lbs. do not archive http://www.cabelas.com/ http://www.rei.com/ Time: 10:25:32 AM PST US From: "Kosta Lewis" Subject: RE: RV-List: Camping at OSH --> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" I have camped at OSH every year for the past, what 16? years I suppose. I have seen tents come and go, literally (Hey, isn't that Dave's tent rolling by over there?). The best I have found for relatively little money for what you get are the Cabela tents, specifically the Alaskan Guide Model. I have the 4 man for me, myself and I and my wife when she can come. Holds everything I cram in it. At OSH it can RAIN which will get in your tent. My Cabela's is the driest I have used or seen. It also can BLOW there, either nature or some twin trying to blast himself out of his tire ruts. The Cabela tents can be secured at multiple points and stay put. Search the archives under CAMPING AT OSH and read message 99850 April 02 babble for some more hints about camping there. Some things will be changed as there will now be Custom Camping west of the forum tents. YEA. You HAVE to fly to OSH, and it is GREAT to camp there, even if you are not that accustom to the great out doors. Early morning, smell of coffee and someone cooking bacon, sun not up yet but orange glow over the lake, conversation you can't quite make out over behind you to your left, two P-51s and an F4U taking off in sequence 200 yards from your tent roar the quiet away and are gone, quiet again except for someone somewhere saying "cool!". Friends you only see at OSH, stumble out of their tent and crawl over to yours, set up a chair and, smiling blurry-eyed, hold out their cup for a bit of hot joe. Can't wait. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 06:36:48 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Carbon panel --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube > >Dana and I are still in the development stage on the carbon fiber panel >so the jury is still out - but we have a pretty good idea of where we >are going to end up. We are more interrested in having the look of a >carbon fiber panel than we are in the structural and/or weight >advantages we might gain from the composites. We decided early on that >Kevlar probably wasn't going to be in the final solution. More because >it is simply a pain to work with than anything else. I just don't know >how to make all of the instrument cut outs, holes and trim the final >edges. Kevlar is so tough that it resists cutting. On an instrument >panel, you would have little "frizzies" where ever you had to cut >through it. And, you can't sand them away, they just get worse the more >you try to sand them. This is a fact. You would have to plan the panel so that no cut edges would show. >I do like the idea of using the Rutan sandwich construction techniques >to strengthen the panel. We will probably do that around the radio >stack but not anywhere else. The main reason is, we are going to use >this panel on three RV-7's that are under construction. As is usually >the case, no two panels are alike. Making all of the panels the same, >without the internal core material, we can make instrument cutouts where >ever we want. Mold the holes instead of cutting them. Arrange plastic disks on the flat mold plate where you wanted the round instruments to go. You would machine the disks to provide the exact recess (or hole edge) that you wanted. You could also place rectangles for square instruments. Secure the disks so they don't shift during the lay-up. Wax and smooth the joint between the plate and the each disk so epoxy won't get under them. You bag the front layers (with a peel ply) over this negative mold. Once the first lay-up has cured, pull the peel ply, add the spacer and back lay-up, then bag again. (It might be possible to do it all in one step, once you got the process down, but it could be difficult to get the front layer to come out perfectly.) When you pull the part, you have a perfect recessed hole (or plain hole) for each instrument. Just trim off the flange flash from the back with a cut-off wheel. The small flange around each hole will make the panel much stronger and durable. Recessed holes and cut-outs would look super slick and would also increase the strength of the panel. ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:57 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator notes --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com W., The extra 3 diodes in a pack are called the diode trio (at least in GM alternators). Its function is to provide power to the field (rotor). By using the trio, there is isolation from the battery in a car where there is no main relay as in an airplane. In a car the alternator diodes are hot 24/7. The team I was on back in about 1966 (4 of us at Delco Radio in Kokomo, IN plus some in Anderson, IN at Delco Remy) came up with the idea of putting the idiot light between the diode trio (field +) and the switched battery, and found that it detected about 90% of the faults and required no additional circuitry. Some of today's regulators are much more sophisticated at detecting faults, and many regulate off of the trio voltage if the normal voltage sense line gets unhooked thereby preventing a complete runaway. Hope this helps explain the 3 extra diodes. Dan (Retired electrical automotive engineer) RV-7A ( almost done) In a message dated 3/5/04 8:24:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us writes: > > Most diode rectifiers have a 4th bridge pair that I think is used to compare > V for the internal regulator so it knows when a failure is occuring in a > main diode. This is how it knows when to activate the idiot light. But I've > never proven this. But I mention it so you don't get worried if you see > eight diodes when you are looking for six in the rectifier plate. > ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:03 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator notes --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com After rereading my earlier post, you may be referring to different diodes that I was thinking of. Those extra diodes may be zener diodes for transient suppression. They clamp the battery line to about 30 volts or so to protect the electronic equipment in the car (airplane). There is a tradeoff as to what voltage to clamp to because it takes more current to supress 20 volts than 40 volts. Of course we would like to clamp to 16 volts, but that is too hard to do reliably and at a reasonable cost. Dan ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:57 PM PST US From: "Steve Hamer" Subject: RV-List: Vetterman Crossover for sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Hamer" I have a Vetterman Crossover Exhaust system for parallel valve 0-320's and 0-360's that fits the RV-6,7,8,and 9 including the "A" models that I'm not going to use. It's currently listed at $775 through Van's. I'll let someone have it for $675. It includes the muff and mounting stuff, everything you would get if you ordered it from Van's. I've had it installed on the engine but the engine has never been run so it's as good as new. I also have Van's Gascolator (GAS-5) that I won't be using. $76 from Van's, $60 from me. New, never used. Thanks, Steve Hamer -4 flying -6 finishing s.hamer@verizon.net ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:25 PM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Subject: Re: RV-List: alternator cooling --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Doug Weiler wrote: > Just a comment on alternators. I too had problems with Van's Honda > alternator in my previously RV-4. Bought another from Vans. The new owner > just reported to me that it has conked out again. > > I installed a B&C 40 amp alternator in my new RV-4. B&C tells me they have > sold thousands and almost no reported failures. They are a well engineered > unit as you all know. Not cheap, but reliable. > > Then the question arises, how come, after 10 years of use, the alternator in > my 1993 Saturn finally failed. 120,000 plus miles which I figured > translated to over 3000 hours of use. Now that's reliability!! > > Doug Weiler > Hudson, WI No fault of Van's. but I think he didn't get the rebuild quality that he thought he was getting. Like I said in an earlier post, mine appears to have had the outside glass bead blasted and resold as a re-build when It really wasnt even taken apart. Some guys have had great luck and others havent had as good. The one I got woudlnt have made it past the first run-up. This thread has given some good input though and a lot of good ideas. Phil ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:47 PM PST US From: Dj Merrill Subject: RV-List: wood props and IFR --> RV-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Hi all, I'm looking for some advice from more experienced pilots than I. I have a Ted Hendrickson wooden prop on my plane, and I'd like to start training for my instrument rating. I've read that wood props don't like the rain, and get beat up pretty badly. Basically, I'm wondering is a little rain going to really trash the prop, or would it take hours and hours of rain flying to cause damage? The prop has about 1050 hours on it, but was freshly refurbished by Sensenich about 50 hours ago, nice fresh clear coat, looks beautiful. Thanks, -Dj ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:23 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Van's alternator - $18 at Pep boys From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I got one of the bosch ones cross referenced to the 14xxx number. 22$. It worked for about the same 250 hours as the Vans one did. It was not until I got the Susuki 60 amp internally regulated, lighter, more amp unit, that I stopped toasting them. My Suzuki unit has lasted about 600 hours without toasting. I believe I read somewhere in the aeroeletric site why the Suzuki unit was far superior. Double fan, rated for the high rpm's it turns and so forth. It is a $130ish unit. But the lifetime warrantee, and lack of headache factor, combined with the increased amps which I needed running an all electric plane with no mags, made this alternator a much better choice fo me. Mike do not archive. Oh and ps, sorry for the jiberish earlier in the week. Outlook web access and the rv-list do not get along. ________________________________ Message 68 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:59 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Kyle, check my website. Under flying/135hr report. I too had several broken ones. My fix has lasted over 1000 hours since. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Subject: RV-List: Exhaust Bracket Failure --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Looks like the exhaust hanging hardware on my airplane needs to be changed every 100 hours or so. When I pulled the cowl for my condition inspection, I found that one of the angles in the Vetterman exhaust hanging system had failed. That was at about 220 hours. Previously (at about 100 hours in service) I experienced a failure in the previous version of the exhaust hanging system. Has anyone worked out an exhaust hanging system that is reliable over the long term? Tom at Van's indicated that lots of folks have experienced failures in this area over the years, despite numerous revisions in the hardware and attachement of the hangars. Thanks in advance, KB == == == == ________________________________ Message 69 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Help me stop my engine From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" The AFP preferred shutdown method is to pull the purge valve. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jason Sneed Subject: RV-List: Help me stop my engine --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed For the last 2 months I have had a problem I can not figure out and wanted to see if anyone has a direction to point me. I have a 6 with a o-360 with the airflow performance fuel injection system. When I shutdown, the engine is dieseling really bad. I did not know the term dieseling but it basically means the engine will not shutdown fuel gets ignited somehow and keeps turning the engine over. I pull the mixture to idle cut off and then hit the electronic ignition and the mag and the master. I do all this with about 1000 rpm. Before this started happening I could shutdown any way I wanted with no problem. The only way to get the prop to stop spinning and vibrating the heck out of the airplane is to shove the mixture to full rich while everything else is off and the engine is just dieseling. Not only is this causing damage (exhaust breakage) it is dangerous. Tonight I cleaned (sand blasted) all the top plugs, this made no difference. Has anyone had this happen? What should I do next? I am suspect of the mixture control but last time I checked the control was hitting the stop. The only thing I did right before this happened was add avblend to the oil (I know that should have nothing to do with the problem). The oil has been changed since the avblend and I still have the problem. Any ideas to help my RV not come off as a clunker on the flight line? Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust http://www.highland-parks.com/n242ds/index.html == == == ==