Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:41 AM - Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
2. 04:56 AM - Re: EL lighting (Stucklen, Frederic IFC)
3. 05:26 AM - Re: Engine monitoring (Trampas)
4. 06:05 AM - Slick Mag (Vincent Welch)
5. 06:25 AM - Re: some questions from a new guy (John Helms)
6. 07:28 AM - Re: Slick Mag (Cy Galley)
7. 07:34 AM - Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) (Bill Dube)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: EL lighting (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
9. 07:51 AM - compressors (Chris W)
10. 08:04 AM - Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
11. 08:05 AM - Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL (Neil McLeod)
12. 08:09 AM - Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS (Trainnut01@aol.com)
13. 08:40 AM - Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL (John Danielson)
14. 09:09 AM - Pistons... (Bill VonDane)
15. 09:09 AM - Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS (Cy Galley)
16. 09:12 AM - Re: Pistons... (Bill VonDane)
17. 09:39 AM - Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS (Trainnut01@aol.com)
18. 09:41 AM - Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL (Michael Schipper)
19. 09:47 AM - Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) (Tracy Crook)
20. 10:31 AM - Re: Re: Pistons... (Stein Bruch)
21. 11:01 AM - Drilling Rivets (out) (pcondon)
22. 11:20 AM - DeVilbiss E-Z Liners ()
23. 11:23 AM - (Humor) Van's Caption Contest (Patrick Kelley)
24. 11:33 AM - Sun-N-Fun -- GPS coordinates (Charles Rowbotham)
25. 12:24 PM - control locks (Wheeler North)
26. 12:47 PM - Re: Slick Mag (JusCash@aol.com)
27. 12:49 PM - Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) (Neil McLeod)
28. 01:06 PM - Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) (Bill Dube)
29. 01:29 PM - Sun-n-Fun Arrival times (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
30. 02:31 PM - Re: Pistons... (RV6 Flyer)
31. 04:31 PM - Re: control locks (Jim Sears)
32. 04:56 PM - Lowrance 100 (Austin)
33. 07:05 PM - RV List Fly-in Fish Fry (smoothweasel@juno.com.QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0.KILL_LEVEL=5.0)
34. 07:44 PM - Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) (Finn Lassen)
35. 10:13 PM - Re: DeVilbiss E-Z Liners (Robin Wessel)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Have you clecoed the skin back on the skeleton, maybe even with a cleco in
every hole, and is the wrinkle still there? This is about as close as you can
get to seeing what it will look like after rivetting- is it the bottom skin?
Might be acceptable there or even after painting, just a matter of what you can
live with. I learned to live with a lot of cosmetic "errors" if they didn't
compromise the structure...
Mark Phillips -6A do not archive
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Eric,
I'm running both an EL panel under the glare shield, and a digital dimmer.
I have no noise in the radios, even with the squelch open. My RV-6A is a
full IFR plane.
The key to no noise in the radios is proper placement of the EL Inverter,
and good wiring practices. The EL inverter should not be placed near the
radios. I have mine mounted on the right side if the tip-up canopy, far from
the radios.
The EL inverter ground should go to the airframe, where it's ground
currents will not be mixed in with the ground currents of radio power leads.
It's power lead should also be kept away from radio leads. Sometimes, as
small capacitor (.01 uF) is needed near the inverter, to keep noise currents
circulating near the inverter.
When using an EL panel with digital dimmers, you can sometimes get a beat
frequency flicker in the EL panel. (The beat frequency is the difference
between the inverter freq and the digital dimmer freq.) This can also be
mitigated by installing a 100Uf cat near the inverter, or by changing one of
the frequencies....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 155 Hrs
Time: 06:38:18 AM PST US From: richard dudley <rhdudley@att.net> Subject:
Re: RE: EL lighting
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: richard dudley
<rhdudley@att.net>
Eric,
I have installed EL lighting under my glareshield. Thuough I have not
yet flown I have tested it with my two navcoms also installed. With
squelch open, there is no noise from the EL. The power from the
inverter
is supposedly a 400 Hz square wave.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A paint prep
Eric M. Jones wrote:
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Eric M. Jones"
<emjones@charter.net>
>
> Question for EL Lighting users---
>
>I have always presumed that inverters were electrically noisy and
thus EL
>lighting might lead to some interference.
>
>Does anyone have experience with this?
>
>Regards,
>Eric M. Jones
>www.PerihelionDesign.com
>113 Brentwood Drive
>Southbridge MA 01550-2705
>Phone (508) 764-2072
>Email: emjones@charter.net
Message 3
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| Subject: | Engine monitoring |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Well, let me speak from my first hand experience building an Engine Monitor.
First off most people just assume that all you need is the inputs and a
simple computer. Well there are other considerations you have to look at.
For example will the unit operate in Alaska at extremely low temperatures
and in Arizona at extremely high ones? OK so now you need industrial
temperature electronics, well that eliminates most all common off the shelf
hardware. Now start considering what happens when the guy wiring up the unit
accidentally connects 12V or 28V to one of your input pins. Or if even worse
he connects the P-lead to the oil pressure input. How about more basic
questions like what operating system do you use? For example if you use a
Windows box are you willing to wait for the system to boot up? What about
power supply, should it operate while cranking the engine? Should it operate
at 28V?
Once you got this questions considered think about how many you will sell.
Today there are about 1200 experimental aircraft registered each year. Thus
if you sell 10 units a month you have 10% of the market, which is not a lot
of sales but a large part of the market. Like Tracy said you will have a
significant amount of development expense in each unit thus the units will
not be cheap as the volumes will not be high. You also have competition out
there, so what are you going to do different than them to get the customers
to buy your product. My thoughts were that giving the user control over
what the unit would be of value to customers.
What I found is that a most people who want to do some special things, like
one guy wants to hook up a speed sensor to the wheel to measure take off
distances. Another guy wants to hook up weight sensors on the landing gears
and calculate weight and balance before each flight. Another guy wants to
have the ability to set cruise alarms that notify them if anything changes
more that 10% while at cruise. One guy even wants to monitor his Subaru's
injector on time to calculate fuel flow. Thus from talking to people what I
found was everybody wanted to do something a little different on their
plane. Thus I designed the Pulsar unit such that it can read almost any
sensor and then do any calculations the user wants on the sensor and display
the data. However the people who wanted to do this really wanted someone to
do it for them, for free.
My mistake was that I should have asked how much would you be willing to pay
to get the features you want, and would you be willing to do some work to
make it happen? So if you want a "trend monitoring" engine monitor, how
much would you pay for it and if you could do it by configuring a unit would
you be willing to do that configuring work? The Pulsar unit I am shipping
can do it, but it is not free and it will require work on your part.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
Gentlemen,
I have an IO-360 with one Lightspeed EI and one Slick mag. The mag was
mounted to the engine by the builder and the cap with leads attached was in
a separate box. I looked at the cap this weekend and see a marking for the
no. 1 wire on the outside. However, I don't see how to identify the other
leads and I don't see any kind of mark that tells me the orientation of the
cap when placed onto the mag.
Can any of you gentlemen point me in the right direction?
Vince Welch
All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: some questions from a new guy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
You are correct TW insurance rates tend to be 10% to 20% higher no matter
what type of aircraft you're talking about. That holds true for most of the
companies including the one who underwrites the VanGuard Program.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: some questions from a new guy
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Fri, 19 Mar 2004, Scott Bilinski wrote:
> Nose draggers are cheaper to insure over tail draggers, period.
In the context, you seem to be suggesting that this fact indicates an RV
taildragger is more likely to be involved in a wreck than an RV nosedragger.
But I think you'll find that the actuarial data used isn't that
fine-grained.
If RV taildragger insurance is higher it's almost certainly because
taildragger
insurance is IN GENERAL higher, not because RV taildraggers, specifically,
represent a higher risk.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Don't think that the cap will go on but one way. Cap has three screws and
there a four leads.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Slick Mag
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent@hotmail.com>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
> I have an IO-360 with one Lightspeed EI and one Slick mag. The mag was
> mounted to the engine by the builder and the cap with leads attached was
in
> a separate box. I looked at the cap this weekend and see a marking for
the
> no. 1 wire on the outside. However, I don't see how to identify the other
> leads and I don't see any kind of mark that tells me the orientation of
the
> cap when placed onto the mag.
>
> Can any of you gentlemen point me in the right direction?
>
> Vince Welch
>
> All the action. All the drama. Get NCAA hoops coverage at MSN Sports by
> ESPN. http://msn.espn.go.com/index.html?partnersite=espn
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 09:35 PM 3/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>
>
>OK I'll throw mine in. These are the figures for my currently flying
>configuration. The 2004 Renesis rotary that I'm getting ready to install
>will weigh about 22 pounds less.
Very exciting news. Please keep us informed about your progress
with the Renesis engine.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RE: EL lighting |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
I received my EL lighting tapes last week from Buy.com and thought some
Listers may be interested in the following information about them. To get free
shipping, I ordered 3 EL kits to get the total over $25. The red ones were
cheaper -- about $8.95, than the green ones, and I thought I may want red anyway,
so I ordered 2 reds and one green. The green EL tapes are brighter than the
red, and much more efficient (see below). And my 2 reds were different colors.
One was almost purple, and not near as bright as the other red. Also, all
three inverters were different. One was much smaller than the other two. The
dimensions of the larger ones are 1 3/4 by 1 by 15/16 high, not counting the
mounting ears. The smaller one is 1 1/16 by 11/16 by 13/16 high. The inverters
have 2 cables and connectors to drive 2 tapes, so maybe you can buy the tapes
separately.
The package has some specs on the inverter. The input is 12V and has a
connector which mates to a disk drive power cable in the computer. The output
is
90 VAC at 1 KHz. I measured the input current on one of the inverters driving
each strip as: green 28 mA, red 64 mA, and purple 32 mA. When driving no
strip at all the current was 15 mA. The current is less at lower voltage. This
limited testing shows that the green is much more efficient. The point is that
there is a lot of variation between the different colors. Of course, I don't
have enough strips to be sure that my data is typical of all the parts.
The width of the strip according to the package is 0.3 inches, but they
measured 0.4, 0.5 and 0.55 inches! The 0.55 inches was because of sloppy assembly,
the two outside clear tapes were offset from each other. The length is
(almost) 5 feet and can be cut off, but I don't know how you would connect to the
unused piece to use it again. At Delco we had some conductive epoxy which
would work, but I don't know where to get it now, and its probably expensive.
Does anyone know? Short pieces may come in handy to light instruments, switches,
etc.
I'm not unhappy with these EL lighting strips. I think I will make use of at
least one of them, and the price is great.
Regards,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Building my RV-9 rudder before the first flight, not that I intend on
doing spins!)
Message 9
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FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
I was watching an automotive show the other day and they were talking
about compressors. They said one of the best ways to keep the noise
down was to install an inlet muffler, because that is where most of the
noise comes from. Has anyone here tried that? My old compressor
doesn't have anywhere to attach one, so I can't try it. If people have
good success with them, it will give me one more reason to upgrade my
dying 35+ year old compressor.
Chris W
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 3/22/04 2:20:06 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
warren@ahyup.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
>
> I posted a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Wrinkle/ of a wave I made in
> the wing skin edge. The wheels of the Avery edge roller were not
> perpendicular to the edge of the skin, thus stretching the metal and
> making a wave. Are these kits so good that I could order a new skin and
> drill out the holes without match drilling? I want to replace the
> wrinkled skin.
>
> Warren
> http:ahyup.com
Warren,
They probably are. I understand that some people build the wings without
jigs now. Maybe Vans even recommends it, I don't know. BTW I couldn't make out
the wave for sure in your picture, probably because I didn't know exactly
where to look. If its the trailing edge, why would you roll that?
Instead of rolling edges, I found that I can taper the last 1/8 inch down to
about .015 and it looks rolled, but looks nicer, kind of like a scarf joint.
Just put the skin right at the edge of the work table and file away. It does
take a little time, but the results are worth it. I didn't do it on the wing,
but did it on the fuselage where the .032 skins end.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
In my experience they are that good.
Neil McLeod
Bisbee, AZ
RV7 QB FWF and finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren W Hurd
Subject: RV-List: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL
--> RV-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
I posted a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Wrinkle/ of a wave I made in
the wing skin edge. The wheels of the Avery edge roller were not
perpendicular to the edge of the skin, thus stretching the metal and
making a wave. Are these kits so good that I could order a new skin and
drill out the holes without match drilling? I want to replace the
wrinkled skin.
Warren
http:ahyup.com
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
Chris
I work with a company that installs air conditioning systems in street rods,
classic cars and other vehicles that were not equiped with compressors from
the manufacturer. From experience I can promise you the use of intake as well as
exhaust mufflers on A/C compressors has negligible if any benefit. We find
the noise in compressors usually has more to do with hoses contacting body
panels than anything else. Also the style of compressor has a major effect,
generally the more pistons the better. Most modern compressors have 5 to 9 cylinders
with some as many as fifteen. Your 35 year old compressor may only have two.
Contact me off list and I'll see if I can help.
Carroll
trainnut01@aol.com
Message 13
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| Subject: | Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <johnd@wlcwyo.com>
I had the same thing happen. After it was riveted it looked fine.
John L. Danielson
RV-6
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Warren W Hurd
Subject: RV-List: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL
--> RV-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
I posted a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Wrinkle/ of a wave I made in
the wing skin edge. The wheels of the Avery edge roller were not
perpendicular to the edge of the skin, thus stretching the metal and
making a wave. Are these kits so good that I could order a new skin and
drill out the holes without match drilling? I want to replace the
wrinkled skin.
Warren
http:ahyup.com
==
==
==
==
Message 14
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vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Anyone have any high compression pistons for an O320?
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Yes BUT! Air conditioning compressor are a closed system. Air compressors
are open to the air and the intake can be muffled by fitting a aircleaner
and muffler unit. Getting your air from the outside leaves the noise
outside as well.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley@qcbc.org or sportpilot@eaa.org
Always looking for articles for Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: <Trainnut01@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS
> --> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
>
> Chris
> I work with a company that installs air conditioning systems in street
rods,
> classic cars and other vehicles that were not equiped with compressors
from
> the manufacturer. From experience I can promise you the use of intake as
well as
> exhaust mufflers on A/C compressors has negligible if any benefit. We find
> the noise in compressors usually has more to do with hoses contacting body
> panels than anything else. Also the style of compressor has a major
effect,
> generally the more pistons the better. Most modern compressors have 5 to 9
cylinders
> with some as many as fifteen. Your 35 year old compressor may only have
two.
> Contact me off list and I'll see if I can help.
> Carroll
> trainnut01@aol.com
>
>
Message 16
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rv8list@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I think what I need are standard O360 pistons: PN: 75089
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Pistons...
Anyone have any high compression pistons for an O320?
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: compressors FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
You're right. I have been working with a friend to fit an A/C compressor on a
RV and was so locked in on that I assumed you were talking about A/C
compressors. Forget I said anything.
Carroll
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Edge Roller Wave TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Schipper <mike@learningplanet.com>
I did the exact same thing on my left rudder skin. I thought I was
being smart by edge-rolling the trailing edge, but instead it came out
all wavy. I continued with the process of bonding the skin to the AEX
wedge hoping that it would straighten up, but as soon as I started back
riveting, the waves reappeared. It was a big mess, and afterwards I
wished I had cut my losses early, because I wasted a perfectly good
right skin and AEX wedge.
So, I ordered two new skins and wedge, and since then I haven't edge
rolled any of the trailing edges on the empennage.
Mike Schipper
9A - #90768
Wings on order
On Mar 22, 2004, at 1:17 AM, Warren W Hurd wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
>
> I posted a photo at http://www.ahyup.com/Wrinkle/ of a wave I made in
> the wing skin edge. The wheels of the Avery edge roller were not
> perpendicular to the edge of the skin, thus stretching the metal and
> making a wave. Are these kits so good that I could order a new skin and
> drill out the holes without match drilling? I want to replace the
> wrinkled skin.
>
> Warren
> http:ahyup.com
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dube
Very exciting news. Please keep us informed about your progress
with the Renesis engine.
Bill Dube
Bill,
I have not installed the Renesis yet but here is a synopsis of the testing done
in preparation for it. This is a collection of messages and replies sent to
a rotary engine discussion group so it may sound a bit choppy.
I'm just now starting on my Renesis evaluation. First I wanted to compare it to
the earlier rotary (89 vintage) so I installed the RD-1C 2.85 : 1 drive and
larger prop [74 x 88] (intended for the Renesis). Things are different enough
that it will take at least 20 hours to evaluate. I'll be posting detailed reports
on the website.
On the second flight test of this configuration I had planned to do a maximum performance
takeoff to see how it compared. I was fully aware that the P-factor
would be opposite (prop turns right instead of left) but I was unprepared for
the magnitude of it. With full right rudder the plane was still veering left.
Things happened too quickly for me to be exactly sure of what happened next but
I think when the tail wheel lifted off, the plane turned sharply to the left
and I was certain that I was going to crash into the fence that borders the runway.
No one was more surprised than I when the RV-4 lifted off and cleared the
fence (barely!).
There were lots more interesting differences (most of them good) but it will take
several pages and more time than I have right now to explain them.
My first recommendation when using the -C drive and a big prop is Feed in power
gradually on takeoff until rudder is fully effective. A bit of right offset
in the engine mount might also be in order (mine has none).
Tracy
( Ed Anderson asked for some comparison fuel burn numbers)
Hi Ed,
Wish I had more carefully documented fuel burn vs airspeed on the -B drive & old
prop. But from the few well documented points that I have, it looks about the
same at 6.0 GPH (sea level) IAS, 143 - 148 depending on OAT, humidity, etc
(its amazing how much conditions affect things). This is the only point I've
had a chance to compare so far. I have not built the prop blade cuffs that I
feel will be necessary to get best performance from this combination. Clark at
Performance Props was very honest about the difficulty in getting the proper
pitch at the blade root (out to ~ 3" past the 13" dia. spinner) with pitch this
high. This being the case, I'm very happy with the results so far.
Other conclusions are that anything less than 74" L prop is a waste on the -C drive.
More would be better but that's as long as the -4 prop clearance would
allow.
I can't measure static rpm (plane wants to skid on grass and/or nose over) but
climb RPM is at 6200 at 120 mph (up from about 5200 with -B drive) and VSI is
pegged (hard!). Only did very brief test of WOT in level flight and engine hit
7050 rpm. IAS was still climbing at 215 mph. Oil cooling has suffered due
to stalled air around prop hub and reversed spiral of airflow due to RH prop.
Erased several years of tweaking inlet shapes.
Most unexpected finding so far is the radically improved glide at idle setting.
Have no clue why. Would have expected worse instead of better.
Tracy
The -C drive has very different internals but I will look at the feasibility of
reworking the -B housing to receive the -C guts. I think it can be done. Yes,
the -C bolts right up to the same adapter plate. I think you are right about
the 2.85 becoming the preferred ratio, but only if you can handle the longer
prop. You nose draggers have the advantage here
The more I fly it the better I like this setup. The higher rpm was very disconcerting
at first but I acclimated rapidly. And now that I have digested the
fact that the actual rpm difference at normally used throttle settings is only
about 5%, I absolutely love it. Another good sign is that the manifold pressure
is now more than 5% lower at any given airspeed that I've tested so far.
Even if the wear rate is up 5% or so it would be a non issue.
One more plus for the 2.85 is something I hesitate to mention. It's kind of like
the "engine making oil so I have to drain some out" thing, kind of unbelievable.
It makes sense that there would be less prop noise but I'm also getting
less engine noise.
I was getting tired of the increased noise with the Hushpower II muffler and was
almost ready to put the Spintech back on even though it costs at least 5 - 6
mph in drag. But with the -C drive things have quieted down substantially.
I think part of the credit for this goes to the difference in RPM moving the vibrations
away from the resonance point of the sheet metal panels in my RV-4 but
even observers on the ground have mentioned that the engine sounds quieter.
I better shut-up now, this is starting to sound too good to be true.
Tracy
The following message was a reply to a wise crack by Finn Lassen saying that Paul
Lamar was right all along (about the best ratio being higher than the 2.176
: 1 that I used previously)
OK, OK, rub it in, but before you guys get carried away, consider the following:
The prop limitation was always my only reservation about using the higher ratio.
I must emphasize that in order for this to work, the prop must not only be
long but has to have a good profile as far down toward the root as possible with
the MUCH higher pitch. I worked with Clark at Performance Props and emphasized
this. It required a thicker than standard hub to get close to what was
needed (and it still needs the previously mentioned cuffs).
If you don't do these things, all you get is significantly higher rpm, less performance,
higher fuel burn and higher wear. Look at the numbers from previous
users of the 2.85 drive.
Did I mention the three spinners, various spinner bulkheads, prop bolts that were
now too short and other various things that went wrong during the effort to
make this work right?
Tracy
Tune in again next week : )
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Bill,
ECI will sell them to you directly for a good price (same as you will get
from a dealer or less). You are correct about the p/n, just call ECI, tell
them you need some and they can sell them to you complete with rings, pins,
etc... or plain pistons. I just bought 4 of them myself about 6 months ago,
and you are correct, they are standard -360 pistons.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
vansairforce
Subject: RV-List: Re: Pistons...
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I think what I need are standard O360 pistons: PN: 75089
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Pistons...
Anyone have any high compression pistons for an O320?
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Drilling Rivets (out) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "pcondon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
A simple way to do this is to drill the brazier head of the rivet with the
shank sized (30 or 40), only to the depth of the mushroomed brazier head.
Simply remove the drill bit from the chuck of the drill and take the chuck
end (no drill flutes) of the drill, insert into drilled out rivet head and
briskly snap off the head using the drill bit as a "break off tool". Works
all the time for me....when I was repairing some else's rivets.....never my
crappy rivets.....
Message 22
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| Subject: | DeVilbiss E-Z Liners |
--> RV-List message posted by: <EricHe@FlexSolPackaging.com>
Just wanted to throw this into the archives. Finally got to use my new box of DeVilbiss
E-Z Liners this weekend. Its an innexpensive kit with zip lock bags and
inserts that go into the neck of any gravity feed HVLP gun. You insert a receptical
into the base of your guns cup, then put an insert into the bag, you
poke the two together with an insert tool. Pour in your paint, zip the bag closed
with the help of the zipper tool. Turn the gun upside down and spray until
paint comes out. Once the gun is drawing paint, you can paint in any direction
with absolutely no difference (that I observed) in the way the paint comes out.
You also don't have to clean out your cup when you are done. Fits all guns.
This weekend I shot the bottom of a 6A and this worked out great with my Sharpe
SGF gun. The cost is about 25 bucks which beats the stink out of buying a pressure
pot to paint the bottom surfaces. Here's a link. Do a search for E-Z liners
in the gun cup section.
Build On
Eric
http://www.autorefinishdevilbiss.com/
Message 23
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| Subject: | (Humor) Van's Caption Contest |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster@flion.com>
I just got the #1, 2004 RVator and see that one of my captions won the
contest. I say 'one' because I inundated them with captions; it was a
little bit of fun. For your amusement, I share the remainder and I'd like
to hear from other entrants to extend the list. With permission, I'll
compile the list and post it on my website.
[quote]
My caption idea is: "How can you cite me for a wheels up landing, Officer?
It doesn't have retractable gear!"
#2 - "Honest, Officer, I never thought it could do an axial roll while
taxiing."
#3 - "Would you believe I thought I was in Australia?" or "I bought this
gyro from a guy named Johanson."
#4 - "They ran off saying something about this 'being more fun than cows'."
#5 - "It was a perfect 180-degree letdown. except for the rollout at the
end."
#6 - "Officer, let me tell you about P-factor."
#7 - "Ya mean to tell me the plans were upside down when I built this?!!"
#8 - ".just like a bug with it's feet in the air. Don't know why it does
that when the engine dies."
#9 - "I just painted those gear fairings."
#10 - "I've been doing aerobatics all day; the approach looked perfectly
normal to me."
#11 - "Upside down? Heck, I was flying it backwards, too."
#12 - "Under the influence? Yeah, of CAVU and the best airplane ever."
[/quote]
Patrick Kelley
Message 24
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| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun -- GPS coordinates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Does anyone have the GPS coordinates for the (2) towers West of lake Parker?
Also any plans for get togethers?
Chuck Rowbotham
RV8A
Message 25
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>>>>>>>>>>>
Sorry for the rant, I guess I really just wanted to point out the importance
of before-start, and pre-flight checklists.
Ed Bundy - Eagle, Idaho
RV6A 600+ hours
<<<<<<<<<<<<
I couldn't agree with you more than I already do about checklists and
process. But even with twice checking, I have left the canopy unlatched and
aborted a takeoff.
My point was if you can accomplish something in a fashion that doesn't leave
the plane disabled, or makes it impossible to even get in the airplane until
you reable it then you have one more level of redundancy that is good for
our health.
On the other hand, experience/history tells us that if a procedure which is
regularly used, disables the aircraft, it can/will eventually lead to an
incident. So therefore safety demands that we reduce these types of
procedures as much as possible, and where not possible we conduct the
procedure in a failsafe manner if at all possible. (IE can't open the
canopy, can't get in the airplane, engine won't start, etc)
So a better choice than a rudder lock would be a set of rudder trim springs
or rubber stops that allow the rudder to move but prevent or reduce wind
banging of the rudder.
If you must have a rudder lock then it can be a piece of rubber gap seal
with two short pieces of hard rubber hose stuffed through it, inserted into
the counterweight horn gap, and a piece of string that runs from it to the
canopy cover, or prop tip so you have to remove it just to climb in. If that
fails, along with your checklists than the rubber should allow you to flex
the rudder some, and maybe pop the lock out.
W
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
Hi Vince,
Look at the nuts on the end of the wires. They will be marked 1T Or 1B, 2T
or 2B, etc. Don't worry about the Top or Bottom markings. Just connect them
all on the bottom plugs as marked.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 3/22/2004 6:06:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
welchvincent@hotmail.com writes:
Gentlemen,
I have an IO-360 with one Lightspeed EI and one Slick mag. The mag was
mounted to the engine by the builder and the cap with leads attached was in
a separate box. I looked at the cap this weekend and see a marking for the
no. 1 wire on the outside. However, I don't see how to identify the other
leads and I don't see any kind of mark that tells me the orientation of the
cap when placed onto the mag.
Can any of you gentlemen point me in the right direction?
Vince Welch
Message 27
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| Subject: | Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock@theriver.com>
At the risk of offending the fanatics, I just love reading about these
types of experiments with the good AND bad without all the "Pie in the
Sky" better, faster, cheaper than Lycoming bashing. Real World Solutions
is an apt name. Thanks Tracy!
Neil McLeod
7QB AEIO-360, baffles
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tracy Crook
Subject: Re: RV-List: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights)
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dube
Very exciting news. Please keep us informed about your progress
with the Renesis engine.
Bill Dube
Bill,
I have not installed the Renesis yet but here is a synopsis of the
testing done in preparation for it. This is a collection of messages
and replies sent to a rotary engine discussion group so it may sound a
bit choppy.
I'm just now starting on my Renesis evaluation. First I wanted to
compare it to the earlier rotary (89 vintage) so I installed the RD-1C
2.85 : 1 drive and larger prop [74 x 88] (intended for the Renesis).
Things are different enough that it will take at least 20 hours to
evaluate. I'll be posting detailed reports on the website.
On the second flight test of this configuration I had planned to do a
maximum performance takeoff to see how it compared. I was fully aware
that the P-factor would be opposite (prop turns right instead of left)
but I was unprepared for the magnitude of it. With full right rudder
the plane was still veering left.
Things happened too quickly for me to be exactly sure of what happened
next but I think when the tail wheel lifted off, the plane turned
sharply to the left and I was certain that I was going to crash into the
fence that borders the runway. No one was more surprised than I when
the RV-4 lifted off and cleared the fence (barely!).
There were lots more interesting differences (most of them good) but it
will take several pages and more time than I have right now to explain
them.
My first recommendation when using the -C drive and a big prop is Feed
in power gradually on takeoff until rudder is fully effective. A bit of
right offset in the engine mount might also be in order (mine has none).
Tracy
( Ed Anderson asked for some comparison fuel burn numbers)
Hi Ed,
Wish I had more carefully documented fuel burn vs airspeed on the -B
drive & old prop. But from the few well documented points that I have,
it looks about the same at 6.0 GPH (sea level) IAS, 143 - 148 depending
on OAT, humidity, etc (its amazing how much conditions affect things).
This is the only point I've had a chance to compare so far. I have not
built the prop blade cuffs that I feel will be necessary to get best
performance from this combination. Clark at Performance Props was very
honest about the difficulty in getting the proper pitch at the blade
root (out to ~ 3" past the 13" dia. spinner) with pitch this high. This
being the case, I'm very happy with the results so far.
Other conclusions are that anything less than 74" L prop is a waste on
the -C drive. More would be better but that's as long as the -4 prop
clearance would allow.
I can't measure static rpm (plane wants to skid on grass and/or nose
over) but climb RPM is at 6200 at 120 mph (up from about 5200 with -B
drive) and VSI is pegged (hard!). Only did very brief test of WOT in
level flight and engine hit 7050 rpm. IAS was still climbing at 215
mph. Oil cooling has suffered due to stalled air around prop hub and
reversed spiral of airflow due to RH prop. Erased several years of
tweaking inlet shapes.
Most unexpected finding so far is the radically improved glide at idle
setting. Have no clue why. Would have expected worse instead of
better.
Tracy
The -C drive has very different internals but I will look at the
feasibility of reworking the -B housing to receive the -C guts. I think
it can be done. Yes, the -C bolts right up to the same adapter plate.
I think you are right about the 2.85 becoming the preferred ratio, but
only if you can handle the longer prop. You nose draggers have the
advantage here
The more I fly it the better I like this setup. The higher rpm was
very disconcerting at first but I acclimated rapidly. And now that I
have digested the fact that the actual rpm difference at normally used
throttle settings is only about 5%, I absolutely love it. Another good
sign is that the manifold pressure is now more than 5% lower at any
given airspeed that I've tested so far. Even if the wear rate is up 5%
or so it would be a non issue.
One more plus for the 2.85 is something I hesitate to mention. It's
kind of like the "engine making oil so I have to drain some out" thing,
kind of unbelievable. It makes sense that there would be less prop
noise but I'm also getting less engine noise.
I was getting tired of the increased noise with the Hushpower II muffler
and was almost ready to put the Spintech back on even though it costs at
least 5 - 6 mph in drag. But with the -C drive things have quieted down
substantially. I think part of the credit for this goes to the
difference in RPM moving the vibrations away from the resonance point of
the sheet metal panels in my RV-4 but even observers on the ground have
mentioned that the engine sounds quieter.
I better shut-up now, this is starting to sound too good to be true.
Tracy
The following message was a reply to a wise crack by Finn Lassen saying
that Paul Lamar was right all along (about the best ratio being higher
than the 2.176 : 1 that I used previously)
OK, OK, rub it in, but before you guys get carried away, consider the
following:
The prop limitation was always my only reservation about using the
higher ratio. I must emphasize that in order for this to work, the prop
must not only be long but has to have a good profile as far down toward
the root as possible with the MUCH higher pitch. I worked with Clark at
Performance Props and emphasized this. It required a thicker than
standard hub to get close to what was needed (and it still needs the
previously mentioned cuffs).
If you don't do these things, all you get is significantly higher rpm,
less performance, higher fuel burn and higher wear. Look at the numbers
from previous users of the 2.85 drive.
Did I mention the three spinners, various spinner bulkheads, prop bolts
that were now too short and other various things that went wrong during
the effort to make this work right?
Tracy
Tune in again next week : )
==
==
==
==
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
> This is a collection of messages and replies sent to a rotary engine
> discussion group so it may sound a bit choppy.
Rotary engine discussion group???? Which one talks about aircraft
installations?
>One more plus for the 2.85 is something I hesitate to mention. It's kind
>of like the "engine making oil so I have to drain some out" thing, kind of
>unbelievable. It makes sense that there would be less prop noise but I'm
>also getting less engine noise.
>
>I was getting tired of the increased noise with the Hushpower II muffler
>and was almost ready to put the Spintech back on even though it costs at
>least 5 - 6 mph in drag. But with the -C drive things have quieted down
>substantially. I think part of the credit for this goes to the difference
>in RPM moving the vibrations away from the resonance point of the sheet
>metal panels in my RV-4 but even observers on the ground have mentioned
>that the engine sounds quieter.
>
>I better shut-up now, this is starting to sound too good to be true.
>Tracy
A muffler is basically a low-pass filter. If you go to higher
frequency input (higher RPM) you should get greater attenuation. Typically,
they are more than 1st order filters, so you should get much more than 20
dB per decade.
Also, you are making less energy per combustion cycle. (The HP
demand is the same, but you are running at higher RPM.) This should reduce
the peak combustion pressure and the concomitant pressure fluctuation at
the exhaust port.
The muffler becomes more effective and the pressure pulses are
reduced in magnitude. You can't help but reduce the noise.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Sun-n-Fun Arrival times |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Are any times better than others to arrive at LAL midweek? How bad is it
usually late morning, say 10-11?
Thanks!
Mark - do not archive
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
http://www.lycon.com/nfs.htm
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,447 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
<vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: Pistons...
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
Anyone have any high compression pistons for an O320?
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
do not archive
Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: control locks |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
Gee, golly. I guess I must be doing my control locks all wrong and am
totally unsafe to myself, my passenger, and my RV. In this thread, I've
read some pretty ingenious methods of tying things down in our RVs. I'm
sure all work to help each of us to feel better about his/her own self.
As for me, I think I'll still use the simple method of putting the lap belt
over the stick and cinching it down to hold the ailerons and elevator. I've
been doing that for four years on a ramp that can get pretty darned windy.
I can't help but believe that my RV, which is buillt much stronger than the
spam cans nearby, can withstand any loads on the elevator that those winds
will impose. Forget not that we fly much faster and must impose more loads
in normal fligh regimes. Now, that's pure speculation on my part; but, I
can't visualize it being any other way. Unless my RV is hit by a tornado, I
can't believe the wind is going to ruin my RV's elevator, or even slam the
tail to the ground. If it's a tornado like wind, I think I have more to
worry about than just the elevators. Am I the only one thinking this way?
If so, maybe I'm way off base on the subject.
As for my solid rudder stop that locks the rudder horn to the rudder stop, I
can assure you that I know about it as soon as I get ready to start the
engine and place my feet on the rudder pedals. The rudder pedals are rock
solid and won't move. That's a heck of a lot easier to recognize than some
idiot light that I might forget to look at.
Another thing I do is put the rope to my cowl plugs around one blade of the
prop as I put them in the cowl inlets. That way, the prop will sling the
plugs out, if I do forget to pull them out. Now, it doesn't take rocket
science to do this. I just angle the blade at about 45 degrees to keep the
birds from resting on the prop. If I put the cowls straight in without
putting the rope behind the blade, the job is done. I can't start that
engine without slinging the cowl plugs out. I've tried it to see if it
works. Yep. No problem, there.
I also tie my pitot cover to the tie down ring with the rope so it comes off
when I remove the rope. Simple. I know if I forget the rope, the airplane
won't move from that spot. Sorta idiot proof, again.
My goodness folks, where the heck is the KISS method going to? You guys
are just making it too hard for me to go flying. I think I'll just stick by
what works well for me. Thanks for the very informative thread, though.
It's been interesting to see what we can come up with, I must say.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317 (Tail almost built. Pile of O320 engine parts bought)
EAA Technical Counselor
do not archive
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
Listers,
I have a Lowrance 100 handheld GPS unit with power cord adapter
for sale.....$200....
Unit as new, just used to doodle with, but old eyes need bigger unit....
Will pay postage anywhere....
Please contact offline,
Austin.
Message 33
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| Subject: | RV List Fly-in Fish Fry |
--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0
On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 22:06:07 -0800 "Phil Sisson,"
<sisson@consolidated.net> writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson,"
> <sisson@consolidated.net>
>
> smoothweasel@juno.com wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
> >
> > Hey Guys/Gals, we are planning a fly-in fish fry for anyone that
> wants
> > to come. All ya need ta do is fly in and eat. The strip is 2000ft.
> grass
> > and is located right on a fish farm here in east Mississippi. If
> you have
> > ever been in this area you have noticed the large amount of ponds
> here so
> > this is a great opportunity for you to try some
> > locally-raised-farm-grown-CATFISH!!!!! Invite your friends
> (and
> > enemies......... you don't have to have an RV) and come on down
> for some
> > great food.
> >
> > Date: May 15
> >
> > Location: approx. 10 east of Macon, MS
> >
> > Please let me know off line if you plan to be there so we know how
> many
> > fish to catch!!!!! and I will give ya more specific directions.
> I
> > will try to send out another email closer to the fryin date.
> >
> > Joel "Weasel" Graber
>
> Yankee's too?
>
> phil
>
Yeh I guess so?????!!!!!!
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Renesis (was: Engines again / Weights) |
QUARANTINE_LEVEL=4.0 KILL_LEVEL=5.0 tests=BAYES_00
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
-4.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayesian spam probability is 0 to 1%
[score: 0.0000]
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
Homepage: http://www.flyrotary.com/
Archive: http://lancaironline.net/lists/flyrotary/List.html
and (I hate to do this to you, but:)
http://home.earthlink.net/~rotaryeng/
Finn
Bill Dube wrote:
> Rotary engine discussion group???? Which one talks about aircraft
>installations?
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | RE: DeVilbiss E-Z Liners |
pts rule name description
---- ---------------------- --------------------------------------------------
--> RV-List message posted by: "Robin Wessel" <Robin.Wessel@verizon.net>
In addition to the EZ-liners, check out 3M's PPG disposable cup system.
I have not tried them out yet but I hear that they are very convenient.
They allow you to spray at any angle and the cup is usable for measuring
and storage. Think of it like a disposable baby bottle.
HYPERLINK
"http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/aerospace/nod
e_N0D6GTZ148be/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSNNJ6NQDKge/gvel_1CCHNCJWK7gl/th
eme_us_aerospace_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html"http://products3
.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/auto_marine_aero/aerospace/node_N0D6GTZ148be/ro
ot_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GSNNJ6NQDKge/gvel_1CCHNCJWK7gl/theme_us_aerospace_
3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html
robin wessel
RV-10, Tigard, OR
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