Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:23 AM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment (Bob U.)
2. 07:46 AM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment (WFACT01@aol.com)
3. 08:36 AM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment (Kevin Horton)
4. 09:24 AM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment (Cy Galley)
5. 09:40 AM - Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS (Bob U.)
6. 09:58 AM - Re: Spinner mounting problem. (Bluecavu@aol.com)
7. 10:56 AM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment (Kevin Horton)
8. 12:02 PM - Fuel Tank Access Plate Question.... (Jerry Howell)
9. 12:16 PM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS (Terry Watson)
10. 12:58 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Access Plate Question.... (Evan and Megan Johnson)
11. 01:20 PM - Re: Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS (Dj Merrill)
12. 02:18 PM - Re: Women Building RVs (Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG))
13. 02:46 PM - Dynon OAT Probe (Jack Lockamy)
14. 03:00 PM - Re: One of lifes little pleasures (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
15. 03:32 PM - Re: Dynon OAT Probe (Kevin Horton)
16. 04:34 PM - Rv-List Aerodynamic Drag (smoothweasel@juno.com)
17. 07:10 PM - Re: Dynon OAT Probe (N223RV@aol.com)
18. 07:18 PM - Wing skin overlap (Ken Simmons)
19. 07:25 PM - Re: Dynon OAT Probe (Jeff Point)
20. 07:32 PM - Re: Wing skin overlap (Alex Peterson)
21. 07:38 PM - Re: Dynon OAT Probe (Larry Bowen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
Brett Ray wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
>
>I have one that needs adjustment also. But mine is off by 900 feet.
>That's why I like my GPS.
>
>Brett
>
ARRGH.
Perhaps you have just explained a 'head on near miss' crusing at 4500 ft
that came my way last year.
Bob
Do not archive.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment |
--> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com
BOB-SOME PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAROMETRIC ALTITUDE
(ALTIMETER) AND TRUE ALTITUDE (GPS)-TOM
Tom Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
President EAA Chapter 1097
wfact01@aol.com
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
Tel: 203-266-5300
Fax: 202-266-5140
EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
RV-8 540 LYC (Engine Runs, Taxi-Tests)
S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
>
>
>Brett Ray wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brett Ray" <brett@hog-air.com>
>>
>>I have one that needs adjustment also. But mine is off by 900 feet.
>>That's why I like my GPS.
>>
>>Brett
>>
>
>ARRGH.
>Perhaps you have just explained a 'head on near miss' crusing at 4500 ft
>that came my way last year.
>
>Bob
Yeah, there can be a few hundred feet difference between GPS altitude
and barometric altitude. The error in GPS altitude varies with the
satellite geometry, and barometric altitude is affected by the
atmosphere temperature profile. But, all the other traffic is
setting their cruise altitudes using barometric altitude. So anyone
who decides to set cruise altitude using GPS altitude may be cruising
at different altitudes than everyone else. I doubt it would put them
1,000 ft out, but they could easily end up 500 ft out and mix it up
with the IFR traffic.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Shouldn't they be the same if the altimeter is set correctly?
----- Original Message -----
From: <WFACT01@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter Adjustment
> --> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com
>
> BOB-SOME PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAROMETRIC ALTITUDE
> (ALTIMETER) AND TRUE ALTITUDE (GPS)-TOM
>
> Tom Whelan
> Whelan Farms Airport
> President EAA Chapter 1097
> wfact01@aol.com
> 249 Hard Hill Road North
> PO Box 426
> Bethlehem, CT 06751
> Tel: 203-266-5300
> Fax: 202-266-5140
> EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
> RV-8 540 LYC (Engine Runs, Taxi-Tests)
> S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
Kevin Horton wrote:
>>>
>>>I have one that needs adjustment also. But mine is off by 900 feet.
>>>That's why I like my GPS.
>>>
>>>Brett
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>ARRGH.
>>Perhaps you have just explained a 'head on near miss' crusing at 4500 ft
>>that came my way last year.
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>
>Yeah, there can be a few hundred feet difference between GPS altitude
>and barometric altitude. The error in GPS altitude varies with the
>satellite geometry, and barometric altitude is affected by the
>atmosphere temperature profile. But, all the other traffic is
>setting their cruise altitudes using barometric altitude. So anyone
>who decides to set cruise altitude using GPS altitude may be cruising
>at different altitudes than everyone else. I doubt it would put them
>1,000 ft out, but they could easily end up 500 ft out and mix it up
>with the IFR traffic.
>
True 'nuff.....
But, I just couldn't resist an opportunity to be my devilish lil' self.
:-)
However, that near miss involved a T-6 that NEVER SAW ME as we passed
within 50 feet of each other as I zipped out of the way. Us RV-3's are
real small critters and are extremely difficult to see under many
lighting conditions. Time for full blow TCAS.... or maybe one of the
affordable stripped units for some semblance of additional safety beyond
'see and be seen'? Any thoughts or experience with the sub $1000 units,
anyone?
Bob
Bob
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Spinner mounting problem. |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
I cut my front plate.
What I did was to remove portions of the flange leaving four 'legs' or 'tabs'
that extended out to pick up four screws in the spinner and bent the
legs/tabs back just as much as was needed over the edge of the prop hub. Imagine
a
front plate that looks like an 'X' superimposed on an 'O'. Been working well now
for over 200 hours (and I turn about 3000 rpm at WOT).
Another tip for assembling spinners/plates if they have a gelcoat and are not
translucent... Rig yourself up a small lightbulb on a cord
(decorative/chandelier bulbs work well -solder the wires to the bulb to keep it
compact and
cover with tape or proseal) stick the bulb inside the spinner and let it backlight
the plate holes through the fiberglass.
Scott
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
They'll be the same if you are on the ground at the airport that the
altimeter setting came from, and if the satellite geometry at that
moment happens to provide good GPS altitude accuracy.
GPS is only about one-third as accurate in altitude as it is in
location. So depending on the satellite geometry, you could easily
have a few hundred feet of error in the GPS altitude.
See:
http://gpsinformation.net/main/altitude.htm
http://www.prairie.mb.ca/faq/03.htm
Barometric altitude is affected by temperature. If the temperature
is colder than standard the barometric altitude will tend to read
higher than it should, with the amount of the error being zero at the
ground (assuming you are at the airport where the altimeter setting
came from), and increasing with altitude. The amount of the error is
about 4 feet per thousand feet per degree C that the temperature
differs from standard. So, if the temperature is about 30 deg C
below standard, the barometric altitude will be in error about 120 ft
per 1,000 ft. So, if you are at 4,000 ft above the altitude of the
airport where the altimeter setting comes from, your barometric
altitude will read about 480 ft too high. So even if your GPS
altitude was bang on, it would put you about 480 ft different from
the barometric altitudes that everyone else was using.
If the temperatures are above standard, the sense of the error is
reversed, i.e. the barometric altimeter reads too low.
See:
<http://williams.best.vwh.net/smxgigpdf/smxgig2000.pdf>
<http://www2.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0702.html> - scroll down to
"7-2-3. Altimeter Errors"
<http://www.atlasaviation.com/feature%20articals/featured-article-2004/lies_your_barometric_altimeter_t.htm>
<http://www.bluecoat.org/reports/Long_98_Cold.pdf>
Kevin Horton
Engineering Test Pilot
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
>Shouldn't they be the same if the altimeter is set correctly?
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <WFACT01@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Altimeter Adjustment
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com
>>
>> BOB-SOME PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BAROMETRIC ALTITUDE
>> (ALTIMETER) AND TRUE ALTITUDE (GPS)-TOM
>>
> > Tom Whelan
Message 8
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| Subject: | Fuel Tank Access Plate Question.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Howell <jehowell@tampabay.rr.com>
Greetings all...
I am currently preparing my first fuel tank for assembly. I have gone
with the capacitive fuel sender option. As part of this, a different
fuel tank access plate is provided (T-411 instead of T-408). This
plate has none of the cut outs for the resistive fuel sender (since
it's not being used) and the fuel pickup tube. My question is simple -
I assume that I have to cut out, in the same location as on the stock
T-408, a hole for the fuel pickup tube assembly. Is this correct?
I'm not going with flop tubes, rather I will be using the standard
van's offered fuel pickup.
Seems simple, but I'm worried that I'm missing something and couldn't
find any help in the archives...
Thanks all,
Jerry
RV-7A
Wings
Message 9
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| Subject: | Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Bob,
The current issue of Aviation Consumer rates the two $1000 or less traffic
gadgets. They were pretty much a toss-up. Neither was considered great,
both were thought to be better than nothing.
Terry
However, that near miss involved a T-6 that NEVER SAW ME as we passed
within 50 feet of each other as I zipped out of the way. Us RV-3's are
real small critters and are extremely difficult to see under many
lighting conditions. Time for full blow TCAS.... or maybe one of the
affordable stripped units for some semblance of additional safety beyond
'see and be seen'? Any thoughts or experience with the sub $1000 units,
anyone?
Bob
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Access Plate Question.... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
Yep...just lay the standard plate right on top and mark the location with a
sharpie. Dont forget the anti-rotation bracket.
Evan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Howell" <jehowell@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Tank Access Plate Question....
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Howell <jehowell@tampabay.rr.com>
>
> Greetings all...
>
> I am currently preparing my first fuel tank for assembly. I have gone
> with the capacitive fuel sender option. As part of this, a different
> fuel tank access plate is provided (T-411 instead of T-408). This
> plate has none of the cut outs for the resistive fuel sender (since
> it's not being used) and the fuel pickup tube. My question is simple -
> I assume that I have to cut out, in the same location as on the stock
> T-408, a hole for the fuel pickup tube assembly. Is this correct?
>
> I'm not going with flop tubes, rather I will be using the standard
> van's offered fuel pickup.
>
> Seems simple, but I'm worried that I'm missing something and couldn't
> find any help in the archives...
>
> Thanks all,
> Jerry
> RV-7A
> Wings
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Altimeter Adjustment - TCAS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej@thayer.dartmouth.edu>
Bob U. wrote:
>or maybe one of the
>affordable stripped units for some semblance of additional safety beyond
>'see and be seen'? Any thoughts or experience with the sub $1000 units,
>anyone?
>
>
I have one of the Surecheck 110 units that I picked
up on Ebay for $200. This is one generation old, and
is not their latest offering. It works. The numerical
distance indicator is not accurate, but generally when it
tells me there is something closer than 2 miles, which is
(I believe) the threshold when the voice warning starts,
there is traffic nearby. I've had occasional
false reports, but generally the traffic really
is there. I'd say it was worth the $$ I paid for it.
The latest generation are better, and can even tell you
if the traffic is above or below you and by how much.
However, they are a lot more expensive, too. :-)
-Dj
Message 12
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| Subject: | Women Building RVs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" <F.vanderHulst@ucol.ac.nz>
Louise Coats built RV-6 ZK-RVL, flying here in New Zealand. She's
apparently working on another.
She doesn't have a website AFAIK.
Frank
Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online
at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL
(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information
and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of
Learning.
Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your
future
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
I'm attempting to locate a suitable location to mount my new Dynon OAT Probe.
The Dynon OAT probe came supplied with an 8' pre-wired cable and instructions that
specify... "the OAT probe must be mounted at a distance such that you do not
have to extend the supplied cabling to reach the EDC-D10 remote compass module....".
I have the remote compass mounted on the upper portion of aft bulkhead
F-707 (one bulkhead aft of bagagge compartment bulkhead).
There is NO way I can reach the wing or wing root fairing with only 8' feet of
cable. Won't even reach the NACA vent on the forward side of the fuse as a back-up
location. The best location I can see for my set-up would be to install
the probe high, and underneath the H/S (horizontal stabiler). My concern is
that the probe may be affected by exhaust gases (heat) even tucked-up under the
H/S. Would the probe reading be effective under the H/S?
The only other alternative I see is to extend the length of the cable to reach
an area under the wing.
Does anyone know if the cable can be extended without affecting the probe? I don't
understand why it can't be lengthened, but then again... I'm not an electrical
engineer.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
Message 14
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| Subject: | One of lifes little pleasures |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
All things being equal, I am running about .85gph better under EI.
But all things are not equal. Runs smoother, starts better.
Michael Stewart
Quality Assurance
404.236.3363
GO ISS!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hal / Carol
Kempthorne
Subject: Re: RV-List: One of lifes little pleasures
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
<kempthornes@earthlink.net>
How about the fuel savings, Mike??
hal
At 05:27 AM 4/2/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Yesterday, I went and bought 8 spark plugs for my Lycoming to get her
>ready for the up and coming very busy month of flying. Between this
>weekends formation clinic in Ohio, SnF, and our 12 ship gaggle to the
>Turks and Caicos, I am really getting her up to snuff.
>
>Well I ordered my plugs, got to the register, and they rang up as
>$14.32, I smiled and gladly paid with a twenty, stuck my change in my
>pocket, and wondered out the door. Paused.... Turned back around, and
>bought another 8 just for kicks.
>
>Screw up on their part? No..... NGK's, for my LSE dual electronic
>ignition at Advance Autoparts round the corner.
==
==
==
==
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon OAT Probe |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy@att.net>
>
>I'm attempting to locate a suitable location to mount my new Dynon OAT Probe.
>
>The Dynon OAT probe came supplied with an 8' pre-wired cable and
>instructions that specify... "the OAT probe must be mounted at a
>distance such that you do not have to extend the supplied cabling to
>reach the EDC-D10 remote compass module....". I have the remote
>compass mounted on the upper portion of aft bulkhead F-707 (one
>bulkhead aft of bagagge compartment bulkhead).
>
>There is NO way I can reach the wing or wing root fairing with only
>8' feet of cable. Won't even reach the NACA vent on the forward
>side of the fuse as a back-up location. The best location I can see
>for my set-up would be to install the probe high, and underneath the
>H/S (horizontal stabiler). My concern is that the probe may be
>affected by exhaust gases (heat) even tucked-up under the H/S.
>Would the probe reading be effective under the H/S?
>
>The only other alternative I see is to extend the length of the
>cable to reach an area under the wing.
>
>Does anyone know if the cable can be extended without affecting the
>probe? I don't understand why it can't be lengthened, but then
>again... I'm not an electrical engineer.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>Jack Lockamy
Jack,
I suspect that a location under the HS would probably work. The
exhaust gases should be fairly well mixed with the ambient air by the
time they get that far aft. Assuming your engine rotates clockwise
as viewed from the cockpit, the right side is probably a better
choice than the left. I think the prop wash would tend to push the
exhaust gases to the left of centreline.
Having the probe under the HS should also help shade it from the sun.
Sun shining on the metal around the probe could cause it to over
read, assuming that the heat from the skin is conducted into the
probe.
Let us know how it works out.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 16
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| Subject: | Rv-List Aerodynamic Drag |
--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Does anyone out there have a formula handy that will figure how much drag
is induced by a surface that is flat on the front and protruding into the
air stream? Someone looked at my plane today and said that I would see a
significant(3-4 MPH) gain on my cruise speed if I would upgrade to a 13
in. spinner.......i have a 12 in. one and so it leaves a half in. exposed
"flat area" around the circumference of it. I have figured that I have
around 19sq. in. exposed to the air stream. I also understand that a
13in. spinner will cause a very slight more drag than the 12in. Is the
guy right on his assumption or would it be insignificant???
Weasel Graber
-4 waiting....................FAA!!!!
Brooksville MS.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon OAT Probe |
--> RV-List message posted by: N223RV@aol.com
I mounted mine on the right side about 2-3 inches under the horizontal stab.
Seems to work good, but don't have much to reference it to. Sure would have
been nice if they put 25' on it so you could put it out under the wing.....
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Empennage
Message 18
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| Subject: | Wing skin overlap |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
Not sure how to ask this question so it was difficult to search the archives.
I'm looking over the wing real good before putting the bottom skin on. I noticed
a problem with the most foward section of where the two skins overlap on the
top skin. I must have chamfered too much because the outboard skin(the one on
top) has curled up.
Any ideas on how to fix this? My only thought is to drill out the rivet and use
some adhevise to hold the skin down. When that is dry reinstall the rivet.
Thanks.
Ken
RV-8
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Dynon OAT Probe |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I wasn't aware that they were shipping yet. Are you beta testers or are
they shipping production units?
Jeff Point
RV-6 flying
Milwaukee WI
do not archive
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Wing skin overlap |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Not sure how to ask this question so it was difficult to
> search the archives.
>
> I'm looking over the wing real good before putting the bottom
> skin on. I noticed a problem with the most foward section of
> where the two skins overlap on the top skin. I must have
> chamfered too much because the outboard skin(the one on top)
> has curled up.
>
> Any ideas on how to fix this? My only thought is to drill out
> the rivet and use some adhevise to hold the skin down. When
> that is dry reinstall the rivet.
>
> Thanks.
> Ken
> RV-8
Ken, use pro-seal if you go that route. Even then, the relentless
desire of that little corner to want to peel up will be tough to
overcome. Can you put another rivet in there?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 452 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
They are shipping. I've had mine for a week or two. Once the wings are
on for good, both the compass and temp probe are going in the right
wing.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 FWF
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Point [mailto:jpoint@mindspring.com]
> Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2004 10:22 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon OAT Probe
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
>
> I wasn't aware that they were shipping yet. Are you beta
> testers or are
> they shipping production units?
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 flying
> Milwaukee WI
> do not archive
>
> >
> >
>
>
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