---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/04/04: 39 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:17 AM - Undercarriage Stiffeners (Neil Henderson) 2. 02:54 AM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Jim Sears) 3. 03:06 AM - Re: Undercarriage Stiffeners (Jim Sears) 4. 03:40 AM - Re: Tailwheel Horn (Bob U.) 5. 03:50 AM - fuselage jig (Shelby Gott) 6. 05:13 AM - Re: Undercarriage Stiffeners (Ed Anderson) 7. 05:42 AM - Re: Tailwheel Horn (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 8. 06:12 AM - Brake question (DFaile@aol.com) 9. 06:20 AM - Re: Undercarriage Stiffeners (Denis Walsh) 10. 06:22 AM - Re: Lasar vs. Lightspeed (Brian Denk) 11. 06:23 AM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Scott Bilinski) 12. 06:38 AM - RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Wallace Enga) 13. 07:09 AM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Tom Gummo) 14. 07:09 AM - Re: NACA ducts (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 15. 07:10 AM - Re: Tailwheel Horn (Larry Pardue) 16. 07:11 AM - nose gear shimmy (Scott Bilinski) 17. 07:13 AM - Re: RV-4 Jig - Long Island New York (C. Rabaut) 18. 07:19 AM - Re: Undercarriage Stiffeners (Jim Sears) 19. 07:33 AM - Re: nose gear shimmy (Charles Rowbotham) 20. 07:36 AM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Dave Bristol) 21. 08:34 AM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Dj Merrill) 22. 08:55 AM - Re: 2 1/4" RPM + MP Display **or** Engine Power Monitor (Where to find???) (John Furey) 23. 09:10 AM - Re: Anodize? (was: POWDER COAT EXTERIOR?) (Bluecavu@aol.com) 24. 09:13 AM - Re: nose gear shimmy (Scott Bilinski) 25. 01:03 PM - anodizing instrument panel? (Donald Mei) 26. 01:18 PM - Re: Rear view of vacuum gyros...a request. (WHigg1170@aol.com) 27. 01:48 PM - Re: Tailwheel Horn (Randy Lervold) 28. 01:51 PM - Re: nose gear shimmy (linn walters) 29. 01:53 PM - Re: anodizing instrument panel? (Ron Walker) 30. 04:11 PM - Re: nose gear shimmy (Alex Peterson) 31. 04:24 PM - Troubles contacting S-TEC () 32. 05:22 PM - Re: Troubles contacting S-TEC (Ralph E. Capen) 33. 05:28 PM - Re: nose gear shimmy (linn walters) 34. 05:55 PM - Re: nose gear shimmy (Kyle Boatright) 35. 07:19 PM - >Re:nose gear shimmy (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 36. 08:49 PM - new tires (Jason Sneed) 37. 09:04 PM - Internal Regulated Alternator converted to External? (Bobby Hester) 38. 09:05 PM - Re: nose gear shimmy (GMC) 39. 09:45 PM - Re: RV6/A Gross Weight.... (Hal / Carol Kempthorne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:31 AM PST US From: "Neil Henderson" Subject: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" Listers I recall from postings some time ago that the general consensus was that the wooden undercarriage stiffeners called for on the Van's plans were unnecessary. A question to those with nose dragger RV's in the air. Did you fit and if not how is the ground handling. Your input would be very welcome. Neil Henderson RV9-A Aylesbury UK ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:40 AM PST US From: Jim Sears Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > There must surely be a downside to upping your Max Gross Weight though? > > Don't you have to justify to the FAA *why* your RV-6A is apparently safe > to fly at 1800lbs, whilst Van's one isn't? Frank has a point there; but, I did make mine 1800 pounds. I figured that I would not be subjecting mine to 6 gs, any time soon. I figured I'd be flying mine in the normal class because I don't have the nerve for, or desire to learn, aerobatics. I just wanted to build an airplane. One that goes fast was a nice attribute, too. With that, I wanted to make sure the wings could carry the load of a 200 pound increase in gross. I was pretty sure they could. I did the weight and balance calculations already mentioned and found that I could carry a 300 pound passenger with 5 gallons of fuel if I didn't have a lot of baggage and stayed within CG limits. Since I had no intentions of carrying a 300 pound passenger, it looked good to me. If I went with Van's calculations of 1600 pounds, I'd be able to fill my tanks and have room for a 115 pound passenger, roughly. That's not much, is it? I've flown mine at over 1700 pounds several times because it's so easy to get that much of a load in a RV. I'm near standard pilot weight; but, I've had passengers who weigh well over 200 pounds. The heaviest was at about 260 pounds. At full fuel, one can go well over 1700 pounds, easily. My take off weight with that passenger was at about 1750 pounds. My 150 hp powered -6A did just fine with that. I couldn't tell a whole lot of difference in performance, either. The climb out wasn't quite as good as normal; but, it was just fine. Now, here's the big difference I think I've finally figured out. It's not the wings. It's the landing gear. If you notice, the newer kits have a higher gross weight. Notice the wing attachments? I'd trust the 80 bolt wing attachments on my -6A more than those 20 bolts that hold on the new wings. The gross weights on the new kits are higher, though. I hate the new taller main gears. I wanted to put -6A main gear legs on my new -7A. Nothing doing. I'd was told I'd have to drill the mounts, myself. After a lot of questions, they finally told me at Van's that the gear legs on the -7A are larger in diameter than the ones on the -6A. With that, I finally understood the increase in gross weights. What the wings can stand is one thing. What the gear legs can handle is another. If you increase your gross weight, understand that the gear legs aren't as strong as those on the -7A. With that, treat them accordingly. They can withstand quite a bit of punishment; but, they will bend. My -6A is still flying with the legs that came with the kit. Many have already replaced the nose gears. Some have had to replace the mains. I make sure that my take off weight is going to be burned off on a trip so that my landing weight is at least close to Van's gross weight calculations. If I can't do that, I make darned sure I make a good landing so that I don't beat up the gear legs. Now, understand that I can only speculate and go on experinces of others, here. I'm no engineer. I'm basing this on my experience and the experiences of others before me. I knew it would be impossible to not get over Van's gross weight if I carried anyone, other than children, on board with me at full tanks. I set mine high enough that I'd never go over it and have to deal with a balking insurance company. I do not try to test the limits. I try to stay at no more than 1750 pounds at take off. I try to land with much less than that. That's worked for me, so far. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 (New building nearing completion. Waiting on wings) EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:06:32 AM PST US From: Jim Sears Subject: Re: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > I recall from postings some time ago that the general consensus was that the > wooden undercarriage stiffeners called for on the Van's plans were unnecessary. > A question to those with nose dragger RV's in the air. Did you fit and if not how is > the ground handling. Your input would be very welcome. I do not have gear stiffeners on any of my -6A's gear legs. I did balance the main gear wheel pants, though. So far, I'm satisfied with the results. I think I may get a little shimmy at a taxi speed just above a walk; but, I change the speed to stop it. It could also be prop pulses I'm feeling. Not sure on that. I try to keep the mains at 30 pounds pressure and the nose wheel at 22 pounds. The reason I did not go with the stiffeners is that I had a problem getting past the idea that the stiffeners could be adding more stress at the points where the gear legs enter the mounts. The legs are supposed to flex so that the loads are spread out. If we stiffen them, that has to concentrate those loads at critical points. Just look at the spar design on your wings. The spars are stepped down so that the loads are spread out. If not, the wings could shear off. I'm not an engineer; but, logic seemed to point out to me that the landing gear could do the same thing. I decided to go without the stiffeners to see what would happen. So far, I'm happy with mine. When I helped Jim Render build his -9A, we didn't use stiffeners on that, either. I never saw any shimmy action during his testing. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 (Awaiting wings) EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:57 AM PST US From: "Bob U." Subject: Re: RV-List: Tailwheel Horn --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." Stein Bruch wrote: >I fly off a grass strip..... > >200+hrs and 400+landings (still using same "cheap" tires, almost look new)! > Thank the grass and alignment, not the tire manufacturer for such longevity. However, there is more to good life than mere longevity. My STURDY Condor tires have been such an increased pleasure for ground handling, I wouldn't use weak sidewall cheapies, now, if I could get them free. YMMV. Bob ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:07 AM PST US From: "Shelby Gott" Subject: RV-List: fuselage jig --> RV-List message posted by: "Shelby Gott" Is anyone interested in a welded-steel RV-8 fuselage jig? It's located at RYN, near Tucson, AZ. Free, if you can arrange transportation. Please reply off-list for details and pictures. do not archive Shelby Gott -8 fuselage on floor ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:09 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Hi Neil, While they may now longer be considered necessary or recommended, I had to make a panic stop one time from an aborted take off. I am convinced that if I had not had the wooden stiffeners on the main gear legs the extreme braking applied would have caused them to tires to hop and skip as the steel gear first bent backward under the load and the sprang forward. As it was, I left 300 ft of black tire marks from touch down to the end of the runway (ended up 12 ft off in the grass with no damage) which showed no sign of skipping tires or tire lock up. Just 300 ft of soft rubber gripping the tarmac and bring me to a stop. I also have never had any shimmy from the main gear. FWIW Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Henderson" Subject: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners > --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" > > Listers > > I recall from postings some time ago that the general consensus was that the wooden undercarriage stiffeners called for on the Van's plans were unnecessary. A question to those with nose dragger RV's in the air. Did you fit and if not how is the ground handling. Your input would be very welcome. > > Neil Henderson RV9-A Aylesbury UK > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:23 AM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Tailwheel Horn --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com We have the same problem on our RV8 after about 170 hours TT. As u stated, it is no fun with crosswind and having to use brakes to taxi. Have yet to take it apart to see the what has happened. Regards, Doug Preston RV8 N127EK ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:54 AM PST US From: DFaile@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Brake question --> RV-List message posted by: DFaile@aol.com A recent RVAtor article about modifying the brake cylinder push rods solved the problem of trying to keep off the brakes while taking off and landing. I am trying to locate the article but can't remember which RVAtor it appeared in. Can someone please let me know? An off list response is acceptable. Thanks david faile RV6 N44DF Fairfield CT do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:52 AM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh Dear Neil, I did not fit stiffeners to my RV-6A. Originally the nose strut had a stiffener, but when replaced (a retrofit), Van no longer recommended a stiffener. I have the older wheel pants. The other half dozen 6As on the field also have no stiffeners, the newer "dolly partin" pants and no shimmy whatsoever. No handling problems. My gear does occasionally tend to shake at 23 to 30 MPH taxi speed, but only when tires (tyres) are out of balance. this would probably be alleviated with stiffeners. Since I normally taxi at 20 mph or less, this is not a problem for me. On take off the plane accelerates so fast it never occurs. On landing It is a brief shudder which I use for a cue that I have slowed enough to make the turn off. My very personal opinion is that the stiffeners are not worth installing, although they would probably help dampen vibrations and shimmy when/if they do occur. Shimmy very seldom occurs to a large degree (for me) and it is always associated with worn tires, or out of balance wheels. I was also concerned that the wood stiffeners cover an area which is best inspected annually, and could be a source of corrosion, if they are not perfectly sealed. Last but not least. You can add them later, but trying to chisel loose those already installed looks like a daunting task to me. Denis in Denver (RV-6A with 2300 landings so far ) On May 4, 2004, at 3:13 AM, Neil Henderson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil Henderson" > > > Listers > > I recall from postings some time ago that the general consensus was > that the wooden undercarriage stiffeners called for on the Van's plans > were unnecessary. A question to those with nose dragger RV's in the > air. Did you fit and if not how is the ground handling. Your input > would be very welcome. > > Neil Henderson RV9-A Aylesbury UK > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:25 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: Lasar vs. Lightspeed --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > >Can anyone compare/contrast the Lasar Ignition vs the Lightspeed Plasma II >on >an O- 360. > >Thanks for the info. > >Roy Samuelson Might I suggest searching the archives as this topic has been discussed ad infinitum. You may find your questions have already been answered. Have fun. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD O-360/Lightspeed and think it's swell. RV10 '51 Check out the coupons and bargains on MSN Offers! http://youroffers.msn.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:23:56 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Just imagine, you survive the crash into a house, but one person on the ground got seriously injured, this has led to a court case and the lawyer asks you "so Mr. Smith your got you aeronautical engineering degree where?" I dont care what the FAA says about setting your own gross weight. In my opinion the designer sets the weight limits. At 03:39 PM 5/4/04 +1200, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" > > >There must surely be a downside to upping your Max Gross Weight though? > >Don't you have to justify to the FAA *why* your RV-6A is apparently safe >to fly at 1800lbs, whilst Van's one isn't? > >-----Original Message----- >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > I set my RV-6A Gross Weight at 1800 lbs. The FAA says you - the >manufacture gets to make that decision. >Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online >at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL >(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information >and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of >Learning. > >Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your >future > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:49 AM PST US From: Wallace Enga Subject: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Wallace Enga Jim, Bingo, you figured it out. The landing weight differential becomes very apparent in heavy air carrier aircraft. A 747-400 has a structural takeoff weight of 870,00 lbs, but the structural max landing weight is only 630,00 lbs. That's a huge difference of 240,000 lbs, which is also why it has a fuel dump system, as it would take close to 10 hours to burn that much fuel off in an emergency situation. Wally Enga RV7 At 05:50 AM 5/4/04 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > > >Now, here's the big difference I think I've finally figured out. It's not >the wings. It's the landing gear. If you notice, the newer kits have a >higher gross weight. Notice the wing attachments? I'd trust the 80 bolt >wing attachments on my -6A more than those 20 bolts that hold on the new >wings. The gross weights on the new kits are higher, though. I hate the >new taller main gears. I wanted to put -6A main gear legs on my new -7A. >Nothing doing. I'd was told I'd have to drill the mounts, myself. After a >lot of questions, they finally told me at Van's that the gear legs on >the -7A are larger in diameter than the ones on the -6A. With that, I >finally understood the increase in gross weights. What the wings can stand >is one thing. What the gear legs can handle is another. > >If you increase your gross weight, understand that the gear legs aren't as >strong as those on the -7A. With that, treat them accordingly. They can >withstand quite a bit of punishment; but, they will bend. My -6A is still >flying with the legs that came with the kit. Many have already replaced the >nose gears. Some have had to replace the mains. I make sure that my take >off weight is going to be burned off on a trip so that my landing weight is >at least close to Van's gross weight calculations. If I can't do that, I >make darned sure I make a good landing so that I don't beat up the gear >legs. > >Now, understand that I can only speculate and go on experinces of others, >here. I'm no engineer. I'm basing this on my experience and the >experiences of others before me. I knew it would be impossible to not get >over Van's gross weight if I carried anyone, other than children, on board >with me at full tanks. I set mine high enough that I'd never go over it and >have to deal with a balking insurance company. I do not try to test the >limits. I try to stay at no more than 1750 pounds at take off. I try to >land with much less than that. That's worked for me, so far. > >Jim Sears in KY >RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) >RV-7A #70317 (New building nearing completion. Waiting on wings) >EAA Tech Counselor > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:48 AM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" But, my plane was test flown and shown that it flies nicely at the gross weight limit, I set. Of course, lawyers are another thing. :-) Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > Just imagine, you survive the crash into a house, but one person on the > ground got seriously injured, this has led to a court case and the lawyer > asks you "so Mr. Smith your got you aeronautical engineering degree where?" > I dont care what the FAA says about setting your own gross weight. In my > opinion the designer sets the weight limits. > > > At 03:39 PM 5/4/04 +1200, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" > > > > > >There must surely be a downside to upping your Max Gross Weight though? > > > >Don't you have to justify to the FAA *why* your RV-6A is apparently safe > >to fly at 1800lbs, whilst Van's one isn't? > > > >-----Original Message----- > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > I set my RV-6A Gross Weight at 1800 lbs. The FAA says you - the > >manufacture gets to make that decision. > >Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online > >at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL > >(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information > >and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of > >Learning. > > > >Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your > >future > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:09:57 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: NACA ducts --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Matthew, On my prepunched RV-7A skins the NACA vent openings are positioned starting at 5 1/8 inches behind the FWD edge of the skin and end at 10 1/2 inches. The centerline is 3 inches down from the top skin edge (measured at the front edge of the duct opening). The centerline is parallel to the canopy skirts. Frank did a neat trick with the hinge pins. I used some pieces of motorcycle clutch/brake cable housing and brought the pins into the cockpit. They end in clamps to the vertical bulkheads about 9 inches FWD of the instrument panel. The ends of the pins were bent to spring-fit into a hole in the same verticals leaving no sharp ends exposed. I protected the bulkheads from gouging with some small stainless steel pieces. The firewall penetration has to be clamped or ProSealed, too. Came out very nice but was quite a bit of work. Dan Hopper RV-7A (almost done) In a message dated 5/2/04 6:29:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time, mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich > > I am upgrading many things on my purchased RV 6A. One of them is cockpit > ventilation using Van's NACA ducts. Please point me to a web site with a > series of how to install or send me some pictures or a word description. > > Things like size of hole to cut, just where on the fuselage aft of the > firewall wall, can they be level with the middle of the panel, etc. If > these sound very easy fundamental questions they are. But you folks have > built some very fine machines and I'd like to not make a mistake on my very > first cut the metal job. > > Thanks > > Matthew M. Jurotich > > NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center > JWST ISIM Systems Engineer > --> RV-List message posted by: "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" < F.vanderHulst@ucol.ac.nz> http://www.matronics.com/rv-list/bunnys-guide/rv/bunny/fusejig.htm (near the bottom of the document). When you buy the vents from Vans you get a paper template for the size and shape of the hole to cut. Not sure if this will work when upgrading an existing plane, but a cunning trick I found out AFTER I'd cut my holes is to install the vents in line with the cowl hinge line. The hinge pins can then be installed from the rear (and can't slip out into your prop). Frank ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Tailwheel Horn From: Larry Pardue --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue on 5/4/04 6:39 AM, DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com at DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com > > We have the same problem on our RV8 after about 170 hours TT. As u stated, it > is no fun with crosswind and having to use brakes to taxi. Have yet to take > it apart to see the what has happened. > Regards, > Doug Preston > RV8 > N127EK > It is very likely not that the steering horn is wallowed out. I recently lost tailwheel steering on my 6 and all it was was a bit of grit jamming the pawl, preventing it from extending into the steering notch. It was jammed so hard that I had to use a punch to get it to move at all. A cleaning and regreasing cured it completely. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:55 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Anyone have a solution for nose gear shimmy? Its on an 8a. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:13:31 AM PST US From: "C. Rabaut" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Jig - Long Island New York --> RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" snip > Hal Benjamin > RV-4, Almost sea worthy Hal, No Hal, it only "looks" like a boat now. Turn it over, it's really a plane. I've been there no matter how tempting it is... Do Not use it as a "boat". You'll LOVE it as a "plane". Chuck Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Jig - Long Island New York > --> RV-List message posted by: HalBenjamin@aol.com > > Listers, > > I'll be finished with my wooden fuselage jig in a couple of weeks. It's free > to anybody who wants to come and get it! > > > Hal Benjamin > RV-4, Almost sea worthy > Long Island, NY > (631)385-6016 > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:41 AM PST US From: Jim Sears Subject: Re: RV-List: Undercarriage Stiffeners --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears >While they may now longer be considered necessary or recommended, I had > to make a panic stop one time from an aborted take off. I am convinced that > if I had not had the wooden stiffeners on the main gear legs the extreme > braking applied would have caused them to tires to hop and skip as the steel > gear first bent backward under the load and the sprang forward. As it was, > I left 300 ft of black tire marks from touch down to the end of the runway > (ended up 12 ft off in the grass with no damage) which showed no sign of > skipping tires or tire lock up. Just 300 ft of soft rubber gripping the > tarmac and bring me to a stop. I also have never had any shimmy from the > main gear. FWIW > > Ed It sounds like the stiffeners helped to save Ed's day; but, I just wonder how much damage was done at the points where the gear legs enter the mounts. Granted, I'm sure Ed wasn't too worried about that at the time. :-) Still, it had to put a lot of stress on those points. Alas, I must admit that I did not build my airplane to withstand crashes, etc.. I built it hoping I'd never crash it. With that, I've built it with the day to day operation in mind with much hoping that I'll never need to test out the Van's design. If that happens, I'm hoping the insurance company will work with me to replace the bent gear and any other damage that may be caused by the bent gear. From what I've seen from some bent ones, I can manage the repairs. I'll not be using the stiffeners on the -7A, either. Jim Sears in KY EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:03 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Hi Scott, What is the tire pressure on your nose wheel? We lowered ours and significantly reduced the shimmy. We also try and keep the nose wheel off the runway as long as possible (on landing). With a little weight (case of oil) in the rear baggage comp - I can hold the nose wheel off until about 25 kts. We have the 200hp IO-360 with C/S prop. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (260 hrs) >From: Scott Bilinski >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: nose gear shimmy >Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:09:09 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > >Anyone have a solution for nose gear shimmy? Its on an 8a. > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:25 AM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Kurt, In my opinion it depends a lot on the CG of YOUR airplane. On my -6, if I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load it above Van's stated CG limit of 1600 without exceeding the aft CG limit, since the empty CG would start out pretty well back. As it happens I have an O-360 and a Hartzell CS which moves the CG well forward. The airplane is within CG limits when it's sitting empty on the ramp or when it's loaded to 1850 lbs. with 100 of that in the baggage area. So, if Van set the gross weight limit using the small engine and wood prop he probably couldn't have set it any higher and still had anything in the baggage area. So, I think that the gross weight set by Van's might be more of a CG issue than a weight issue. Dave RV6AOKC@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV6AOKC@aol.com > >Howdy all....just a quick survey from those in the know who might have a >flying 6 or 6A.....what do you use for your Gross Weight figure for your aircraft? > I have seen varing things from 1650 to 1900......I have an old email from >vans listing up to 1800 but limiting to 4.5 G's (1750/4.7G, 1700/4.8G)....manual >that I'm using to format my Flight Handbook uses 1900 Lbs.....I suppose this >varies as much as anything else on here.....oh and vans Weight and Balance >instruction says we set the Gross Weight?? Anyway....=)....ideas??? > >Kurt in OKC... > >Almost flying..... > >Do Not Archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:38 AM PST US From: Dj Merrill Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Dj Merrill Dave Bristol wrote: > In my opinion it depends a lot on the CG of YOUR airplane. On my -6, if > I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load it above I'll be the first to admit I don't know a lot on this topic. I understand that CG and gross weight are coupled in some sense, but isn't the gross weight really defined by what the landing gear and wings will withstand for a max load? I could add 10,000 pounds of lead weight right on the center CG, and I'm pretty sure the plane would not fly, but it could be well within CG limits. -Dj ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:55 AM PST US From: "John Furey" Subject: Re: RV-List: 2 1/4" RPM + MP Display **or** Engine Power Monitor (Where to find???) --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" I have the EPM power monitor and just love it. It is the most instrument for the money anywhere. I bought it from the guy who came up with the idea. As stated, they sold it to Alcor but I have no idea why they have set on it and won't sell it. It would be a winner. John Furey RV6A O-320 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:02 AM PST US From: Bluecavu@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Anodize? (was: POWDER COAT EXTERIOR?) --> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com Some aircraft produced in eastern-block countries have had *all* their parts anodized... and I heard many of these airframes have been given a definite lifespan (usually pretty low -like 5000 hours) before they must be retired/destroyed according to their manufacturers. I woundn't do it. Anodizing lowers the fatigue life of aluminum -sometimes in excess of 50% -in some cases this is not a problem -like when the fatigue life of a part before anodizing is say 100,000 hours... but it could be a problem with things like skins and thinner parts that flex/vibrate a lot. Nor would I powder coat... for all the reasons mentioned by other listers. Nor would I paint in sections... a customer we worked with insisted in doing this on a Cessna 180 he had us helping him with. The problem is that most of the time there are subtle differences in the shades of paint betweent the batches/parts. He ended up with a Cessna 180 with about 50 different shades of the same two colors of pearlescent white and burgandy throughout the airframe. The access panels were a different shade than the surrounding skin... the cowl different than the fuselage it met... etc. etc. All technically the same paint out of the same can. Expensive paint and beautifully applied (no runs, sags, orangepeel etc) -But boy did it look like crap! Not to be arrogant or anything -cause I'm always trying 'new' ideas myself -but most of the processes and techniques in place for this sort of stuff have been proven to be best -and well thought out by people who know a lot more than we do. If anodizing were the way to go, Cessna would be doing it by now. Scott ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:41 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Tire pressure.....good question. I need to check that. Currently 100% of the tread is making contact with the ground. That makes it about 20 PSI I think. I may also try adding more of those disc springs and see what happens. At 02:29 PM 5/4/04 +0000, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" > >Hi Scott, > >What is the tire pressure on your nose wheel? We lowered ours and >significantly reduced the shimmy. We also try and keep the nose wheel off >the runway as long as possible (on landing). With a little weight (case of >oil) in the rear baggage comp - I can hold the nose wheel off until about 25 >kts. We have the 200hp IO-360 with C/S prop. > >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham >RV-8A (260 hrs) > > >>From: Scott Bilinski >>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: RV-List: nose gear shimmy >>Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 07:09:09 -0700 >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski >> >> >>Anyone have a solution for nose gear shimmy? Its on an 8a. >> >> >>Scott Bilinski >>Eng dept 305 >>Phone (858) 657-2536 >>Pager (858) 502-5190 >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:03:16 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: anodizing instrument panel? --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" I'm curious what others opinion would be about anodizing an instrument panel grey or black. It might stand up to all the poking and touching that occurs when you throw switches, set altimeter, etc. Don "All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:34 PM PST US From: WHigg1170@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rear view of vacuum gyros...a request. --> RV-List message posted by: WHigg1170@aol.com Hi Amit If you go to http://www.kellymfg.com/gyros.htm They have the drawing with dimensions on them. Accept maybe the AI. Bill Higgins ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:56 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tailwheel Horn --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > We have the same problem on our RV8 after about 170 hours TT. As u stated, it > is no fun with crosswind and having to use brakes to taxi. Have yet to take > it apart to see the what has happened. > Regards, > Doug Preston > RV8 Gents, been there and done that. The problem is that the plunger mushrooms out after a certain amount of time and then hangs up in the groove in the shaft one day with no notice. The solution is to take it a part and grind or file the top and bottom to get it flat again so that it will slide into the slot freely. Keep it oiled (not greased), repeat every annual. Randy Lervold ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:19 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Scott Bilinski wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >Tire pressure.....good question. I need to check that. Currently 100% of >the tread is making contact with the ground. That makes it about 20 PSI I >think. I may also try adding more of those disc springs and see what happens. > I think that's going to be a little low. I had a wizened (read old) A&P tell me to inflate until the outside rib of the tire just lifts off the pavement. That eliminated trying to get a tire gauge under the wheel pants to measure. I've been getting even tire wear since I started doing it this way ..... for about 20 years now. Doesn't seem to matter how much the plane weighs or the tire size. Linn ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:49 PM PST US From: "Ron Walker" Subject: Re: RV-List: anodizing instrument panel? --> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" I had mine powdercoated black by a local shop ... $60. Looks great, gonna last a while ! Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: anodizing instrument panel? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" > > I'm curious what others opinion would be about anodizing an instrument panel > grey or black. It might stand up to all the poking and touching that > occurs when you throw switches, set altimeter, etc. > > Don > > > "All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create > the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:34 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > Scott Bilinski wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >--> > > > >Tire pressure.....good question. I need to check that. > Currently 100% > >of the tread is making contact with the ground. That makes > it about 20 > >PSI I think. I may also try adding more of those disc > springs and see > >what happens. > > > I think that's going to be a little low. I had a wizened > (read old) A&P > tell me to inflate until the outside rib of the tire just > lifts off the > pavement. That eliminated trying to get a tire gauge under the wheel > pants to measure. I've been getting even tire wear since I started > doing it this way ..... for about 20 years now. Doesn't seem > to matter > how much the plane weighs or the tire size. > Linn Did that "wizened", old A&P ever fly an RV trike? I'd lower the pressure until the shimmy problem goes away, seems like mine is around 20 to 25 psi (which is where the whole tread makes contact). Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 463 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:20 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Troubles contacting S-TEC From: --> RV-List message posted by: Hi All, About a month ago I returned a pitch computer to S-TEC for repair (hopefully under warranty). Since then I have been unable to contact them on any of the following email addresses support@s-tec.com info@s-tec.com Does anyone out there know of any other email addresses I should try? Has anyone else had any issues with getting things fixed by S-TEC? Cheers John Morrissey ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:15 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Troubles contacting S-TEC --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" try mavstec.aero ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Troubles contacting S-TEC > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Hi All, > > > About a month ago I returned a pitch computer to S-TEC for repair > (hopefully under warranty). Since then I have been unable to contact > them on any of the following email addresses > > > support@s-tec.com > > info@s-tec.com > > > Does anyone out there know of any other email addresses I should try? > Has anyone else had any issues with getting things fixed by S-TEC? > > > Cheers > > > John Morrissey > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:24 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Alex Peterson wrote: > >Did that "wizened", old A&P ever fly an RV trike? I'd lower the >pressure until the shimmy problem goes away, seems like mine is around >20 to 25 psi (which is where the whole tread makes contact). > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >RV6-A N66AP 463 hours > > I can honestly say that he hasn't. And I haven't either! However, I do have many hours in a Grumman, which also has a castering nosewheel. The answer to the shimmy problem on them is to increase the drag on the nosewheel fork. The Grummans have belleville (also known as cup) washers and the nut holding the fork onto the gear leg is tightened to increase the drag on the fork. Whether or not this will be any help to an RV owner, I can't say. I can say that reducing the tire pressure won't stop the shimmy in a Grumman. When I get my 10 built, I'll be much more informed!!! Linn ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:35 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" Check the archives for a post from Scott McDaniels (who works in the prototype shop at Van's) covering the proper procedure for adjusting the nosegear to avoid shimmy. KB Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:19:49 PM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: >Re:nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com When I test flew my neighbors RV-6A it had the same sensation. After he started flying it ,I could see that the movement was fore and aft - NOT a side to side shimmy. The solution to this was to hold the nose off ,as another said. A permanent fix would be a stiffener on the nose gear leg. Check that out before you go to other things? Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:05 PM PST US From: Jason Sneed Subject: RV-List: new tires --> RV-List message posted by: Jason Sneed Does anyone know if the goodyear flight custom tires will fit in vans one piece narrow wheel pants? Thanks a lot, Jason Sneed Commercial Lending Officer First National Bank and Trust www.highland-parks.com/n242ds ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:12 PM PST US From: Bobby Hester RV-List Subject: RV-List: Internal Regulated Alternator converted to External? --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester Has anyone had there Van's internal regulated 60amp alternator converted to external and used B&C's LR3C-14 regulator? Does this make since to do? -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:37 PM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" Subject: Re: RV-List: nose gear shimmy --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Big Snip >>> I have many hours in a Grumman, which also has a castering nosewheel. The answer to the shimmy problem on them is to increase the drag on the nosewheel fork. The Grummans have belleville (also known as cup)washers and the nut holding the fork onto the gear leg is tightened to increase the drag on the fork. Whether or not this will be any help to an RV owner, I can't say. I can say that reducing the tire pressure won't stop the shimmy in a Grumman. ------ I have the following thoughts about RV-6A nose gear shimmy after dealing with it on both my and a friends aircraft. 1) First check which gear is the problem, a main gear may be causing the problem and it can be very difficult to tell the difference. Have someone stand close to the runway to observe the gear while you do a few landings. Main gear shimmy can usually be cured by getting rid of the Aero Trainer tires and/or balancing the wheel pants. 2) After curing the main gear shake I now have some residual "shimmy" in the nose gear on roll-out at about 25 to 15 MPH. I tightened the belleville (cup) washers on the nose gear twice, one flat of the nut each time with no effect. When I later checked the breakout pressure on the nose wheel it was too high and I had to back the nut off those two flats, essentially there had been no change in breakout pressure from brand new up to 240 hrs. 3) I believe that the "shimmy" I feel from my nose wheel is not a sideways shimmy but is in fact a vertical bounce of the gear leg and it is influenced by tire pressure. I have reduced the "shimmy" to what I now consider normal, but not eliminated it entirely. My nose wheel is not out of round and has been balanced. George in Langley ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:45:34 PM PST US From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/A Gross Weight.... --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne I set mine at 1800 lbs - it is my airplane. Setting the GW too low can cause a problem if you load heavier than that setting and have an accident/incident wherein overloading is an issue. Technically, there are several things that limit gross weight for an airplane: 1. Ability to takeoff and climb 2. Loads on structure while on the ground 3. Loads on structure while in the air. 4. Center of gravity - balance (I have often flown alone with heavy baggage in the pax seat and on the pax floor.) 5. Mission of flights - my limit for aerobatics is still 1375 lbs. If you want to set your GW to eliminate legal problems in all possible situations, better set it to zero. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)