Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:51 AM - deburring the canopy edges (RV8ter@aol.com)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
3. 05:33 AM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (Charles Rowbotham)
4. 06:19 AM - drilling gear legs (Frazier, Vincent A)
5. 06:25 AM - Re: Gear leg/socket drilling (Brian Alley)
6. 06:30 AM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (Frazier, Vincent A)
7. 07:14 AM - RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp (Stuart B McCurdy)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: Wish List (Jordan Grant)
9. 08:28 AM - Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp (Randy Lervold)
10. 08:50 AM - Re: Gear leg/socket drilling (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
11. 08:54 AM - Re: RV-8 Main Gear Leg Fairings (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
12. 08:56 AM - Re: Gear leg Stiffners (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
13. 09:16 AM - Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp (Scott Bilinski)
14. 10:17 AM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (SCHYBOLT@aol.com)
15. 11:14 AM - Re: Gear leg Stiffners (Terry Watson)
16. 12:20 PM - Re: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 05/12/04 (PSPRV6A@aol.com)
17. 01:27 PM - spar alignment problem (Wheeler North)
18. 02:44 PM - help! wing spar anomaly (Ford Frazier)
19. 03:06 PM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (Ross Schlotthauer)
20. 03:13 PM - OSH Notam (Wheeler North)
21. 03:30 PM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
22. 03:45 PM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
23. 03:53 PM - Re: spar alignment problem (Skylor Piper)
24. 04:25 PM - Fw: Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton, NC Emailing: www.midatlanticflyin (Ed Anderson)
25. 04:35 PM - rv4 engine mount (RVer273sb@aol.com)
26. 04:39 PM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (David Burton)
27. 04:44 PM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (David Burton)
28. 05:15 PM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
29. 05:57 PM - Re: help! wing spar anomaly (Ron Walker)
30. 06:32 PM - Getting high in an Experimental!!!! (Like 211,000 feet) (Jerry Hansen)
31. 07:35 PM - Re: deburring the canopy edges (Richard E. Tasker)
32. 07:50 PM - Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton (Ed Anderson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques are
folks using?
Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after the
last or nearly last cut/fit?
Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own weight
if laid on the unfinished edges?
thx,
lucky
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Hi Lucky-
The only time I polished the edges on my tip-up -6A was for final finish
before drilling it to the frame/skin. I would imagine the -6/7/9 canopys to be
more critical as they are big ol' floppy things. I did take 80 grit sandpaper
and knock off the rough edges after most cuts just to make handling easier
since loading/unloading to the fuse for each fit test took two people, one per
side (maybe not necessary, but I wasn't taking any chances!).
It seems from historical evidence and my own experience that temperature in
the shop is more critical- I rarely handled the bubble if it wasn't over 80
degrees, with most cuts made only when above 90. But then, that was in the
middle of last summer- not hard to do in TN!
From The PossumWorks
Mark -6A N51PW - 72 hours, pants on & gettin' ready for paint!
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:52:35 AM Central Daylight Time, RV8ter@aol.com
writes:
> How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
> are folks using?
>
> Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
> the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
> Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
> weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Lucky,
We deburred the edges after every cut.
We used the grinder With the Blue (Fine) Rotolock 3M disc.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: RV8ter@aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com, rv8-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: deburring the canopy edges
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:46:54 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
>are folks using?
>
>Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
>the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
>Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
>weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | drilling gear legs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
SNIP I have ordered a new RV-3 engine mount and gear legs from Vans and
am
looking for any advice/experience with drilling the retainer bolt hole
through the gear leg and socket. Seems this procedure would apply to the
-4
and -6 as well. Any info regarding what kind of bit, drill, technique
used
would be helpful. Anyone have a good way of aligning and clamping the
gear
legs securely before drilling?
Thanks for any help anyone has to offer,
Eric Sandifer SNIP
Eric,
A technique that I used on my Rocket was to drill and tap the gear leg
socket for a small set screw. You can mark where the bolt hole is going
to go and put the set screw 90 degrees from that point. Be mindful of
edge distance, I wouldn't put the set screw near an edge where it might
induce a crack.
The set screw works very well to hold the gear leg while you are putting
the bolt hole in.
YMMV. If in doubt ask Van's. If they say "No" to the extra hole, do it
anyway and weld it shut later (preferrably before you paint the EM).
Have fun.
Vince in Indiana
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg/socket drilling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Brian Alley <n320wt@yahoo.com>
Eric. It is nearly impossible to drill the mount
socket and gear legs on the aircraft and get it all
straight. I drill the gear legs on a drill press, then
with the gear installed in the sockets and clamped in
alignment, measure and locate the proper position to
drill the socket. Start with a bit half the size of
the bolt and drill thru the front of the socket only.
Visually check the alignment of this hole with a
flashlight, then enlarge the hole in small steps until
you have a hole matching the hole in the gear. Recheck
the gear alignment and drill thru the back of the
socket. Use a quality reamer for final deminsion. I
use this method because if you break a drill bit
inside the gear leg before you drill all the way thru,
you'll never get it out!!!
=====
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
304-872-7938 shop
304-562-6800 home
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
Re: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
Let me see if I read this right... you've got the wing structure sitting
in your jig and the skins don't fit the spar quite right.
For crying out loud, just get some unpunched skins! Drill 'em yourself
from the other side (assuming you haven't riveted the other side's skin
on yet).
If Van's won't give 'em to ya, just call A$S.
If Van's squeals about sending you the unpunched skins, I would send him
a digital picture of a steel ruler next to the misplaced spar holes. If
they really are off by as much as you say it will be readily obvious in
the picture.
Vince
Message 7
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| Subject: | RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
--> RV-List message posted by: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy@att.net>
Listers,
A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
remember or have personal experience?
I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
above. Any good solutions?
By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
.020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
Stu McCurdy
RV-3, 74TX, Flying
RV-8, 78TX, Flying
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jordan Grant" <gra9933@bellsouth.net>
I'm in the process of building a shop myself. I plan on using it first to
paint my plane, then as a general-purpose workshop. So these considerations
may not apply to your plans. But this might give you something to think
about.
I'm building a detached, 32' x 24' shop - sounds a bit smaller than you're
planned hangar. I have been thinking about how I'm going to configure this
for painting purposes. If you are going to make provision for a paint
'booth' or whatever, I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on how to do
it. I haven't been able to find too much information on doing a homebuilt
paint booth capable of painting the whole airplane. A few guys have e-mailed
me (and the list) about what they did in their garages, but I think a
detached workshop could be configured in advance to make a very convenient
paint shed. Here's what I've been thinking of doing:
1) Ventilation is key for safety purposes. Since I'd also like my ideal
shop to be cooled in the summer (I'm in North Carolina and it gets hot), I'm
thinking of installing an air conditioning unit and using it for forced
ventilation in the paint shed (positive pressure). If I do this, I do not
want to recirculate air when I'm painting (for obvious reasons). So I've
been considering methods for having a system where I can select outside air
to be pumped through the air handler, or recirculate when I'm trying to cool
and dehumidify the shop. I think I can do this using relatively cheap
dampers that are usually used to turn off vents in different 'zones' of a
multizoned HVAC system in a house.
2) Lighting - I want lots of it. However, with paint fumes in the air, I
need to think about safety. My initial thought is that normal flourescent
lighting should be perfectly safe. Does anyone know of any reason why it
wouldn't be?
Anyways, that's what I'm pondering lately as my contractor does brick and
concrete work on my shops foundation. Won't be long before I have to
actually make some decisions on what to do in these areas.
Jordan Grant
N198G Reserved
Trimming baffles. And trimming. And trimming. And...
-----Original Message-----
--> RV-List message posted by: YonderRDC@aol.com
Hi All...To introduce myself---David Ward here......
I have been spying on you all for the last couple of years while preparing
to
seriously join the fray. Two years worth of planning, saving, and educating
myself. You all have been a big part of that last one. Thanks for all the
insight and education! I am currently in the permit application process to
build
a new shop in which to build my RV-8....God willing (and the County permit
folks), I should have the shop completed by the 4th of July or so. A trip to
Vans is planned for June (in concert with Scappose I suspect)...to pick up
an
empennage kit.
That said....I though you might lend your expertise as I draw up my wish
list
for the new shop/Hanger (room for a 1700 ft. strip!). Yes...I Have reviewed
the archives. What has worked especially well for you in the shop...what do
you wish you had done....what should'nt you have done...done differently,
any
hints on any aspect would be appreciated. Lighting, tools, hanger doors,
creature comforts, floor paint?....plumbing for the compressor (anybody use
PVC?)...etc. You get the idea. If you were doing what I was, what would
you do?
If you don't want to clog up the list with this stuff feel free to resond
directly to yonderrdc@aol.com. If anyone wants phone #'s let me know.
I'll be ordering aircraft tools from cleveland or avery soon and dropping a
small fortune at SEARS. I've been picking up odds and ends recently
....latest
is a Dremel setup and a gross of flame-proof underwear :).
Thanks very much for any information all. It's a pleasure to finally say
Hi...
David
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Stu,
You must have a fairly early QB because they added that stiffener quite some
time ago. Indeed, that ramp will vibrate and crack without the stiffener. In
fact it makes noise without a stiffeneras well. I've seen some guys put in
two, might be a good idea to reduce both vibration and noise. Also, when you
rivet the fwd edge at the bottom of the firewall consider putting some
Proseal along the joint, for sealing but primarily for vibration damping.
Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd use a sheet of stainless
instead of aluminum and leave it unpainted. Not only would it be more
durable, but occasionally polishing it would look neat, kind of like the
treatment on many turbine exhaust areas. I would not put any sort of
insulation in there for fear of it attracting and retaining moisture or oil.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 368 hours, sold
RV-3B, empennage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart B McCurdy" <sturdy@att.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp
> --> RV-List message posted by: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy@att.net>
>
> Listers,
>
> A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
> the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
> started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
> word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
> remember or have personal experience?
>
> I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
> toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
> going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
> A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
> the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
> remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
> vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
> above. Any good solutions?
>
> By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
> firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
> metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
> .020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
> the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
> made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
> IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
> the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
> a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
> directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
> tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-3, 74TX, Flying
> RV-8, 78TX, Flying
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg/socket drilling |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Eric,
Before you weld up the gear leg box, lay the tube in the fixture and insert
the gear leg. Be sure the gear leg is annealed first. Tighten the clamps
and lower the drill head. Then drill the hole.
If you have already welded up the box, heat treated the leg and especially
if you do not have the fixture, you are out of luck. This is factory job,
not a job for a hand drill etc etc.
In my opinion, legs should come pre-drilled. My quickbuild did except for
one hole in the lower end of the nose gear leg. I couldn't believe it when
I discovered that I was to drill a hole in a piece of hardened 4340 steel.
hal (BS Industrial Engg)
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Main Gear Leg Fairings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 08:24 PM 5/10/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
>Well, I'm not sure how often it would come up, but I do like to be able to
>get to the brake lines.
I'm late responding, Larry, because I have been resisting the temptation to
ask why you would want to get to the brake lines so badly as to go to all
that work?
Oh, never mind.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Gear leg Stiffners |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
I guess that will learn me not to trust a forester!
do not archive
hal
At 04:36 PM 5/9/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
>
>
> >Some years ago a railroad
> >tried using ties made of concrete instead of wood in order to reduce
> >costs. While wood ties last years, the concrete began breaking up in a few
> >weeks.
> >
> >
> >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
> >
>
>Tsk. Tsk.
>Rocla Concrete Tie, Inc sure would take issue with you.
>Concrete ties have been used successfully throughout the world for more
>than 50 years.
>
>Just a few websites....
>http://www.aslrra.org/who_we_serve/associate_members/details.cfm?memberid=1783
>http://www.kellysearch.com/qz-product-106454.html
>http://www.koppers.com/htm/PandS_Rail_KSA.html
>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:PVwLKhNmP8wJ:www.lbfoster.com/cxt/cxtrailroadproducts/TiesProd2.pdf+concrete+railroad+ties&hl=en
>
>FYI, even ships have been successfully been manufactured from concrete!
>http://www.concreteships.org/history/
>
>Bob - retired Class I railroad employee
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Exactly what I did, built to plans, then riveted on a mirror finish piece
of stainless steel. Looks real nice, though a little heavy, but worth it. I
installed it with pop rivets and pro seal.
At 08:24 AM 5/13/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
>Stu,
>
>You must have a fairly early QB because they added that stiffener quite some
>time ago. Indeed, that ramp will vibrate and crack without the stiffener. In
>fact it makes noise without a stiffeneras well. I've seen some guys put in
>two, might be a good idea to reduce both vibration and noise. Also, when you
>rivet the fwd edge at the bottom of the firewall consider putting some
>Proseal along the joint, for sealing but primarily for vibration damping.
>Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd use a sheet of stainless
>instead of aluminum and leave it unpainted. Not only would it be more
>durable, but occasionally polishing it would look neat, kind of like the
>treatment on many turbine exhaust areas. I would not put any sort of
>insulation in there for fear of it attracting and retaining moisture or oil.
>
>FWIW,
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 368 hours, sold
>RV-3B, empennage
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stuart B McCurdy" <sturdy@att.net>
>To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy@att.net>
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
> > the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
> > started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
> > word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
> > remember or have personal experience?
> >
> > I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
> > toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
> > going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
> > A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
> > the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
> > remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
> > vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
> > above. Any good solutions?
> >
> > By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
> > firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
> > metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
> > .020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
> > the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
> > made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
> > IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
> > the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
> > a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
> > directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
> > tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Stu McCurdy
> > RV-3, 74TX, Flying
> > RV-8, 78TX, Flying
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: SCHYBOLT@aol.com
I think Ford's talking about a missbent spar, not just missplaced holes. Sounds
like this could affect the depth of the spar, thus the depth of the airfoil.
So, wing depth different for each wing?? And, I don't see how new rib flanges
could help if it's only off on the top. I vote (not that anyone's takin'
one) for new spar/centersection set.
Larry, 7A fuse
Austin, Tx.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Gear leg Stiffners |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I think you learned the wrong lesson from that, Hal.
Terry
Architect, BS Forest Management
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hal / Carol
Kempthorne
Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear leg Stiffners
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
<kempthornes@earthlink.net>
I guess that will learn me not to trust a forester!
do not archive
hal
At 04:36 PM 5/9/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob U." <rv3@comcast.net>
>
>
> >Some years ago a railroad
> >tried using ties made of concrete instead of wood in order to reduce
> >costs. While wood ties last years, the concrete began breaking up in a
few
> >weeks.
> >
> >
> >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
> >
>
>Tsk. Tsk.
>Rocla Concrete Tie, Inc sure would take issue with you.
>Concrete ties have been used successfully throughout the world for more
>than 50 years.
>
>Just a few websites....
>http://www.aslrra.org/who_we_serve/associate_members/details.cfm?memberid=1
783
>http://www.kellysearch.com/qz-product-106454.html
>http://www.koppers.com/htm/PandS_Rail_KSA.html
>http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:PVwLKhNmP8wJ:www.lbfoster.com/cxt/cxtr
ailroadproducts/TiesProd2.pdf+concrete+railroad+ties&hl=en
>
>FYI, even ships have been successfully been manufactured from concrete!
>http://www.concreteships.org/history/
>
>Bob - retired Class I railroad employee
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 05/12/04 |
--> RV-List message posted by: PSPRV6A@aol.com
Screws for anchor nuts? For 25 years, my brother & I have used stainless
phillips head screws on the cowling of our 172. These have been re-used at least
50 trimes and still work fine. They seem superior to the cad-plated aircraft
phillips screws which seen to gall up much more easily. Just FWIW!!!
Paul S. Petersen, RV6A with son Eric, 90%
Message 17
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| Subject: | spar alignment problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Ford,
the critical question is what is the distance between both spars, fore and
aft.
What ever fix you do this distance must be exact, within 1/64" or tighter at
the root.
To be sure where the problem is cleco a few ribs in on the end flanges to
both spars and measure this, if its as per drawings and the holes are
misaligned then the spars aren't the only problem as your skins are not
right.
But if getting the holes aligned along with the skins lining up to the ribs
and spars also gets the spars separated to the correct distance than do the
rib end flange repair. The new spar may not correct your problem, as it may
be the the rib end flanges are too long.
I don't know if the box section design of the 7/8s are match drilled, if
so.... bummer, as the new spar will also need to be match drilled and you
don't want to go there. I would avoid this solution if at all possible.
But, what ever you do the spars must be spaced correctly, so what ever parts
fit when this condition is true, fix or replace the ones that don't fit.
W
Message 18
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| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier@earthlink.net>
Greetings all!
Thanks the many responses on and off list!
Yes, the left wing is in the jig with ribs riveted to spars. The problem is not
just with one rib, but nine adjacent ribs and involves both bottom skins. Vans
has digital photos and one of my ribs.
Here's how we (Vans and I in conference) isolated the problem to the spar flange:
First, flipped the skins and clecoed them in mirror fashion to the right wing and
alignment is perfect. Skins from right wing showed same alignment problem
when fitted to the left wing. Therefore skin is not the problem.
Second, drilled out a sample left rib and sent it to Vans. They successfully installed
it in one of their wings, therefore ribs are not the problem.
Third. Vans emailed me the nominal spar flange dimensional specs and I measured
mine with a micrometer. Flange width is correct at spar ends but goes rapidly
out of spec as you move toward the center. This is consistent with the area
where the hole misalignment occurs. The error is .033 in. Edge distance is
consistent so the effect is to located the prepunched holes in the spar flange
too far forward. As a result of these checks I am 99% confident that the spar
is the source of problem.
This error should manifest itself again in reverse when I get to the leading edge
and fuel tank.
After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I should
NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is going to involve
a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of you have pointed
out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a new spar can be match
drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would save me from redoing
the right wing as well.
Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional insights
are welcome!
Regards - Ford
PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before final
riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either one.
PLANESPOTTER.COM - Check it out!
Message 19
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| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rv7maker@hotmail.com>
Ford,
If I were you (and thank god I am not, my spars were o.k.) I would make sure
that I talked directly to someone at Vans with the authority to send you a
new spar(s). I have found Tom Green to be very reasonable and fair. They
replaced the rear spar attachment forks on my 7 wings, as they apparently
slipped in the manufacturing tooling , creating a misalignment between
holes.
Best regards,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 Wiring
www.experimentalair.com
>From: "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:16:35 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier@earthlink.net>
>
>Greetings all!
>
>Thanks the many responses on and off list!
>
>Yes, the left wing is in the jig with ribs riveted to spars. The problem
>is not just with one rib, but nine adjacent ribs and involves both bottom
>skins. Vans has digital photos and one of my ribs.
>
>Here's how we (Vans and I in conference) isolated the problem to the spar
>flange:
>First, flipped the skins and clecoed them in mirror fashion to the right
>wing and alignment is perfect. Skins from right wing showed same alignment
>problem when fitted to the left wing. Therefore skin is not the problem.
>Second, drilled out a sample left rib and sent it to Vans. They
>successfully installed it in one of their wings, therefore ribs are not the
>problem.
>Third. Vans emailed me the nominal spar flange dimensional specs and I
>measured mine with a micrometer. Flange width is correct at spar ends but
>goes rapidly out of spec as you move toward the center. This is consistent
>with the area where the hole misalignment occurs. The error is .033 in.
>Edge distance is consistent so the effect is to located the prepunched
>holes in the spar flange too far forward. As a result of these checks I am
>99% confident that the spar is the source of problem.
>
>This error should manifest itself again in reverse when I get to the
>leading edge and fuel tank.
>
>After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I
>should NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is
>going to involve a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of
>you have pointed out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a
>new spar can be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would
>save me from redoing the right wing as well.
>
>Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional
>insights are welcome!
>
>Regards - Ford
>
>PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before
>final riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either
>one.
>
>
>PLANESPOTTER.COM - Check it out!
>
>
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
The 2004 OSH NOTAM is out,
who says no one ever listens, I popped them an idea about having printable
taxi signs for arrival and departure, and they liked it. If you are going I
suggest you print them all out along with the Notam and a frequency page and
have this spiral bound at your local Kinko's. You never know with OSH when
you may need to change plans and park somewhere else...
http://www.airventure.org/2004/flying/
http://www.airventure.org/2004/flying/arrival_signs.html.
Hope to see ya all there
W
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 5/13/04 4:45:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
fordfrazier@earthlink.net writes:
>
> After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I
> should NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is going
> to involve a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of you have
> pointed out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a new spar can
> be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would save me from
> redoing the right wing as well.
>
> Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional
> insights are welcome!
>
> Regards - Ford
>
> PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before
> final riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either
> one.
>
>
Ford,
I had just composed a letter with this suggestion -- sending back just your
center section spars. After thinking about it I'm not sure its such a good
idea. Those pieces are probably clamped together and drilled at the same time.
It seems very likely that the holes may get enlarged when they drill through
them again unless the alignment is perfect. Not too likely!
Now I'm wondering if mine are OK. I seem to remember fudging a little at
that stage.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done -- really!)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Lucky,
Take some of your scrap pieces and see how hard it is to make them break. If
you use a cutoff wheel as Vans suggests, I don't think it is necessary to
debur every trim. But, I don't want to be responsible for you cracking your
canopy, so deburring every cut is the safest. I think the riskiest time is when
you make the cut to divide it in half. Some duct tape to hold it together at
that time would be wise. Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
sticky, not acetone or MEK!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:52:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
RV8ter@aol.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
> How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
> are folks using?
>
> Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
> the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
> Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
> weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: spar alignment problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
While I agree with the below statement, I can tell you
from personal experience that this is not what Van's
will say.
You see, my RV-8 QB has a full 1/8 inch misalignment
between the front & rear spar of the left wing, where
it meets the fuselage. Van's says that up to an 1/8
inch is fine and typical(!), and the wing can be
forced to fit. Actually, they say that there is
enough flex in the rear spar carry through for things
to be put together without a problem, even with this
much misalignment.
I actually didn't think the assembly would go
together, but we were able to test fit it AND get the
rear spar & carry through to go together. I'm
definitely not a fan of the "beat it to fit, paint it
to match" philosophy.
--- Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
> <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
> Ford,
>
> the critical question is what is the distance
> between both spars, fore and
> aft.
>
> What ever fix you do this distance must be exact,
> within 1/64" or tighter at
> the root.
>
> To be sure where the problem is cleco a few ribs in
> on the end flanges to
> both spars and measure this, if its as per drawings
> and the holes are
> misaligned then the spars aren't the only problem as
> your skins are not
> right.
>
> But if getting the holes aligned along with the
> skins lining up to the ribs
> and spars also gets the spars separated to the
> correct distance than do the
> rib end flange repair. The new spar may not correct
> your problem, as it may
> be the the rib end flanges are too long.
>
> I don't know if the box section design of the 7/8s
> are match drilled, if
> so.... bummer, as the new spar will also need to be
> match drilled and you
> don't want to go there. I would avoid this solution
> if at all possible.
>
> But, what ever you do the spars must be spaced
> correctly, so what ever parts
> fit when this condition is true, fix or replace the
> ones that don't fit.
>
> W
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
Message 24
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| Subject: | Fw: Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton, NC Emailing: www.midatlanticflyin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Tomorrow kicks off the first Mid-Atlantic Flyin held at KLBT, Lumberton, NC. They have a reserved parking spot for all RVs (the flying type), on-ground camping, airshows and much more. Airshows on Sat and Sun see NOTAM for closure times. More info at this URL http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/
Hope to see a bunch of RVs there over the weekend.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
Message 25
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| Subject: | rv4 engine mount |
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
A few weeks ago someone was looking for
a dyna focal mount to use as a jig.
I hane a rv4 mount available if they are
still looking.
Stewart RV4 Colorado
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
> sticky,
Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
Here are a couple of good links:
http://www.lpaero.com/accessories.html
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page37.htm
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> I wonder if a new spar can be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to
Vans? This would save me >from redoing the right wing as well.
The company that manufactures the phlogiston spars for Vans can do it. It's
not cheap, but may be worth it. You might be able to work something out
with Van.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:40:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dburton@nwlink.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>
> >Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
> >sticky,
>
> Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
> worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
>
>
Hi David,
I sit corrected. I based the alcohol on the fact that canopy deicer used in
my old USAF days was 50/50 methanol/water. I would think that a quick
cleaning with alcohol would do no harm, but you are probably correct. Anyway,
it
looks like my wife's favorite solvent, lamp oil, would be better.
Dan H
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
I'm
> Ford,
>
> I had just composed a letter with this suggestion -- sending back just
your
> center section spars. After thinking about it I'm not sure its such a
good
> idea. Those pieces are probably clamped together and drilled at the same
time.
> It seems very likely that the holes may get enlarged when they drill
through
> them again unless the alignment is perfect. Not too likely!
>
> Now I'm wondering if mine are OK. I seem to remember fudging a little at
> that stage.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (almost done -- really!)
>
I'm pretty sure they don't drill them together ... when I received my wing
kit, the center spar sections were both crushed in shipment. I let Vans know
this and they started working on a replacement center section from scratch -
I received them about 2 weeks later. Today I did final wing attachment and
it all fit perfect.
Ron
RV7A, N520TX, Firewall Forward
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Getting high in an Experimental!!!! (Like 211,000 feet) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
Flight: 56L / 14P
Flight Time: 1.5 hour / 20 min 44sec
White Knight Pilot: Binnie
Whit Knight Copilot: Stinemetze
SpaceShipOne Pilot: Melvill
High Chase Alpha Jet Crew: Van der Schueren / Johnson Low Chase Duchess
Pilot: Siebold / Moore
Objectives:
The third powered flight of SpaceShipOne. 55 seconds motor burn time.
Handling qualities during boost and performance verification. Reaction
control system use for reorientation to entry attitude. Supersonic feather
stability and control.
Results:
Launch conditions were 46,000 feet and 120 knots. Motor light off occurred
10 seconds after release and the vehicle boosted smoothly to 150,000 feet
and Mach 2.5. Subsequent coast to apogee of 211,400 feet.
During a portion of the boost, the flight director display was inoperative,
however the pilot continued the planned trajectory referencing the external
horizon. Reaction control authority was as predicted and the vehicle
recovered in feather experiencing 1.9M and 3.5G's. Feather oscillations were
actively damped by the pilot and the wing was de-feathered starting at
55,000 feet. The onboard avionics was re-booted and a smooth and uneventful
landing made to Mojave.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Actually you do not have to stand corrected. The second reference
posted by David, who claims that alcohol is bad, says "Some alcohols are
safe, such as isopropyl alcohol, but not all." The alcohol most readily
available is isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol.
Nonetheless, kerosene or stoddard solvent are closer to oils and
definitely will not harm the acrylic.
Dick Tasker
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 5/13/04 6:40:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dburton@nwlink.com writes:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
>>>sticky,
>>>
>>>
>>Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
>>worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hi David,
>
>I sit corrected. I based the alcohol on the fact that canopy deicer used in
>my old USAF days was 50/50 methanol/water. I would think that a quick
>cleaning with alcohol would do no harm, but you are probably correct. Anyway,
it
>looks like my wife's favorite solvent, lamp oil, would be better.
>
>Dan H
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com> (by way
of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
Tomorrow kicks off the first Mid-Atlantic Flyin held at KLBT, Lumberton,
NC. They have a reserved parking spot for all RVs (the flying type),
on-ground camping, airshows and much more. Airshows on Sat and Sun see
NOTAM for closure times. More info at this URL
<http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/>http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/
Hope to see a bunch of RVs there over the weekend.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
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