Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:18 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms)
2. 06:24 AM - Re: Re:Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms)
3. 06:42 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Ollie Washburn)
4. 06:51 AM - Dynon Inatallation in Memphis area? (Bill VonDane)
5. 07:12 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms)
6. 07:25 AM - canadian charts (John Huft)
7. 07:50 AM - Re: canadian charts (David Burton)
8. 08:54 AM - Re: canadian charts (Gary Zilik)
9. 09:03 AM - Re: canadian charts (John Huft)
10. 09:23 AM - Re: canadian charts (Rob Prior)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: canadian charts (Are Barstad)
12. 09:44 AM - Insurance Requirements (John)
13. 09:59 AM - Aeroquip hose ID (Mickey Coggins)
14. 10:54 AM - Re: canadian charts (Kevin Horton)
15. 11:40 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Paul Boyce, Ph.D.)
16. 12:12 PM - Re: canadian charts (John Huft)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Richard Tasker)
18. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Jamie Painter)
19. 12:59 PM - Re: canadian charts (Patty and Dan krueger)
20. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Rob Prior)
21. 03:42 PM - New autopilot model (Jerry Hansen)
22. 04:50 PM - Re: Cowling mounting without prop (Eustace Bowhay)
23. 05:57 PM - turbine power (Wayne R. Couture)
24. 05:58 PM - Re: canadian charts (Curt Reimer)
25. 07:21 PM - The Annual Inspection - Powerplant; a new video (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
26. 07:46 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Vanremog@aol.com)
27. 08:06 PM - Re: turbine power (Michael McGee)
28. 08:08 PM - Cabin heat slide valve (Doug Weiler)
29. 08:26 PM - Re: turbine power (Charlie England)
30. 08:39 PM - Re: canadian charts (GMC)
31. 09:10 PM - Re: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? (DejaVu)
32. 09:21 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Stein Bruch)
33. 10:02 PM - Empennage video for sale (Jim/Kathy)
34. 10:36 PM - Re: turbine power (Stein Bruch)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is GREAT!.
And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you were talking
about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk when an insured
turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry about the million
$'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull coverage). Let's see
what your options would be as an insurer...
1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that because
it is illegal in most states.
2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his age.
(why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by most states
is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60 days prior to
the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND require the annual medical
(get up in arms about that.)
3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that you
know he is a better risk).
Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free market, but
signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing quotes to a new
agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which write aviation insurance.
And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most good agencies work with
all the companies. Your implication that he's getting poor advice is frankly
ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs. And you think I don't know what
all the markets are doing on older pilots?
And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new business. (and
before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to use age as a discriminator
when it is new business.) So, signing a broker of record letter won't
help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct writer.
With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and screaming,
I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies willing
to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a very small
marketplace and making an insurance company do something it doesn't want to would
likely make them do something drastic like ceasing writing homebuilt coverages
at all. We certainly don't need fewer market.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie England
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent
designation' letter & go see another agent.
Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't
right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost
you is your time to go elsewhere & ask.
In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance
underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market.
Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this?
Charlie
RV9 wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 <rv9@charter.net>
>
>Hello John,
>
>It looks to me like you have at least three choices
>besides selling the plane.
>
>1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage.
>2. Take the yearly medical exam.
>3. Fly without insurance.
>
>They are listed in my personal order of preference.
>
>Steve Mottin
>RV-9A Fuselage
>N609RV (Reserved)
>Granbury, Texas
>
>Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote:
>
>-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
>J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program, when
>J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of age or
>J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL
>J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only requires
the
>J> exam every TWO years.
>
>J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the EAA
>J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another pilot
>J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants.
>
>J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane?
>
>J> John at Salida, CO
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re:Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Are you aware that AVEMCO provides less coverage than any other with respect to
their liability coverage?
All companies (except AVEMCO) write their liability coverage as (for example) $1
Million per occurrence with $100,000 sublimit per passenger. AVEMCO limits
that $100,000 to each person. That is right, they limit anyone who may get hurt
whether they're inside or outside the plane. You can say no to your 30 year
old doctor when he asks you for a ride, but if you crash land on a road and
hit his Lexus and kill him, and his wife sues you for $1,000,000 AVEMCO would
only pay out $100,000 for his death. Any other company out there would pay the
whole million.
AND AVEMCO further sublimits that $100,000 to $25,000 if the person injured is
a family member of yours (the owner).
They make their coverages sound the same as what other companies offer, but they
aren't. And they try and hide things in their policy (like family sublimits.)
That is why having an agent who can go to all the available markets and advise
you on them is best.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Oldsfolks@aol.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:43 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re:Insurance Requirement Change
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I am insured with AVEMCO for liability only and they haven't said anything
like that. I'm 72. I just renewed my policy.
I tried the EAA plan and they wouldn't insure me at all because I fly from an
1100' grass strip,with our RV-4. That didn't sound like a good system for
sport flyers who want to fly to home strips. My neighbor has their policy and
it would cost a bunch more to have grass strip coverage for his RV-6A.
Most of the fun little fly-ins around here are on grass strips,so the EAA
plan can go jump, as far as I'm concerned.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net>
And what happens when and IF the sport pilot rules are passed with no
medical ?
Ollie
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is
GREAT!. And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you
were talking about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk
when an insured turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry
about the million $'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull
coverage). Let's see what your options would be as an insurer...
>
> 1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that
because it is illegal in most states.
>
> 2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his
age. (why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by
most states is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60
days prior to the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND
require the annual medical (get up in arms about that.)
>
> 3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that
you know he is a better risk).
>
> Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free
market, but signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing
quotes to a new agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which
write aviation insurance. And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most
good agencies work with all the companies. Your implication that he's
getting poor advice is frankly ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs.
And you think I don't know what all the markets are doing on older pilots?
>
> And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new
business. (and before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to
use age as a discriminator when it is new business.) So, signing a broker
of record letter won't help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct
writer.
>
> With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and
screaming, I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies
willing to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a
very small marketplace and making an insurance company do something it
doesn't want to would likely make them do something drastic like ceasing
writing homebuilt coverages at all. We certainly don't need fewer market.
>
> JT
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charlie England
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent
> designation' letter & go see another agent.
>
> Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't
> right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost
> you is your time to go elsewhere & ask.
>
> In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance
> underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market.
>
> Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this?
>
> Charlie
>
>
> RV9 wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 <rv9@charter.net>
> >
> >Hello John,
> >
> >It looks to me like you have at least three choices
> >besides selling the plane.
> >
> >1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage.
> >2. Take the yearly medical exam.
> >3. Fly without insurance.
> >
> >They are listed in my personal order of preference.
> >
> >Steve Mottin
> >RV-9A Fuselage
> >N609RV (Reserved)
> >Granbury, Texas
> >
> >Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote:
> >
> >-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> >
> >J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program,
when
> >J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of
age or
> >J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL
> >J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only
requires the
> >J> exam every TWO years.
> >
> >J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the
EAA
> >J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another
pilot
> >J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants.
> >
> >J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane?
> >
> >J> John at Salida, CO
> >
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Dynon Inatallation in Memphis area? |
rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I just got an email from my YAK-52 buddy who knows a guy with a CJ-6A who is
looking to install a Dynon and was looking for anyone with one already
flying in the Memphis area...
If you can help let me know and I will get you in contact!
Thanks!
-Bill
PS... I got a ride in a CJ a couple weeks ago! YAAA HAAAA!!!
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Then you can get insurance thru the EAA's program and be stuck with a company that
will surcharge you due to your age. That company (Global Aerospace) surcharges
a little bit over their normal rates for each year past age 60.
I don't quite get why some of you are less upset by those companies which just
want to charge you more money than you are by the annual medical which Phoenix
has chosen to do for those pilots over 70 years old. That doesn't seem to fit
with the frugality of many RV'ers I've known.
I wouldn't bet the farm on the Sport Pilots License. While the EAA Program and
other companies have been "sport pilot ready" for quite some time, you must realize
that like any other group of insureds, if the loss ratio's are higher for
those with merely a Sport Pilot license, then the premiums for that group will
go up. Or, they'll stop insuring those with Sport Pilots Licenses altogether.
Please realize that these insurance companies make decisions based numbers which
are very easy for them to calculate. The fact that they are "sport pilot ready"
doesn't mean that they will ignore business decisions.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Ollie Washburn
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net>
And what happens when and IF the sport pilot rules are passed with no
medical ?
Ollie
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is
GREAT!. And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you
were talking about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk
when an insured turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry
about the million $'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull
coverage). Let's see what your options would be as an insurer...
>
> 1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that
because it is illegal in most states.
>
> 2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his
age. (why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by
most states is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60
days prior to the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND
require the annual medical (get up in arms about that.)
>
> 3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that
you know he is a better risk).
>
> Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free
market, but signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing
quotes to a new agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which
write aviation insurance. And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most
good agencies work with all the companies. Your implication that he's
getting poor advice is frankly ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs.
And you think I don't know what all the markets are doing on older pilots?
>
> And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new
business. (and before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to
use age as a discriminator when it is new business.) So, signing a broker
of record letter won't help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct
writer.
>
> With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and
screaming, I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies
willing to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a
very small marketplace and making an insurance company do something it
doesn't want to would likely make them do something drastic like ceasing
writing homebuilt coverages at all. We certainly don't need fewer market.
>
> JT
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Charlie England
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent
> designation' letter & go see another agent.
>
> Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't
> right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost
> you is your time to go elsewhere & ask.
>
> In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance
> underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market.
>
> Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this?
>
> Charlie
>
>
> RV9 wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 <rv9@charter.net>
> >
> >Hello John,
> >
> >It looks to me like you have at least three choices
> >besides selling the plane.
> >
> >1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage.
> >2. Take the yearly medical exam.
> >3. Fly without insurance.
> >
> >They are listed in my personal order of preference.
> >
> >Steve Mottin
> >RV-9A Fuselage
> >N609RV (Reserved)
> >Granbury, Texas
> >
> >Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote:
> >
> >-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
> >
> >J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program,
when
> >J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of
age or
> >J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL
> >J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only
requires the
> >J> exam every TWO years.
> >
> >J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the
EAA
> >J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another
pilot
> >J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants.
> >
> >J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane?
> >
> >J> John at Salida, CO
> >
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
TIA John Huft
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Sporty's has them...
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
>
> TIA John Huft
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Canada
I just could not resist. I think I bought mine through Sporty's
Gary
Do Not Archive
John Huft wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
>
> TIA John Huft
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very
sporting of them.
Any other ideas anyone?
Thanks again, John
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
>
> Sporty's has them...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> >
> > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
> >
> > TIA John Huft
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 7:24 25/06/2004 "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
Here's a list of sources from the Nav Canada (publisher of the maps) website:
<http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=EN&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CDistributors%5Cdefault.xml>
If that link is broken due to it's length, go to www.navcanada.ca, choose
"Aeronautical Information Products" from the left column, then "Purchase
Information", then "List of Distributors".
Sporty's is listed, as well as Aero Training Products, which is a Canadian
company that can deliver to the US as well.
Check what the current edition is and when the next scheduled publication
will be (a few are due out this month, a couple others in August) at this
page:
<http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=EN&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CCharts%5CAeroCharts%5CListOfVFR.xml>
(Aeronautical Information Products -> Aeronautical Charts -> List of Charts)
-Rob
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Are Barstad" <are_barstad@norlogic.com>
You can get Canadian sectionals at www.aviationworld.ca
Are
RV-8 Wings
www.ontariorvators.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft
Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
TIA John Huft
---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
---
Message 12
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| Subject: | Insurance Requirements |
0.3 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
I have decided to accept the annual medical required by Phoenix Aviation
Underwriters for several reasons:
1. Being upset doesn't change anything.
2. The annual might just be in my best interests from a health standpoint.
3. Avemco should be viewed in light of their handling of the infamous
Davenport case where payment was refused when a fuel system change was
made, then re-changed again to original configuration and then an
off-airport landing occured where some property damage was done. Avemco held
that there should have been a new airworthiness inspection upon the first
change, and another one when the system was restored to its original
configuration; since that wasn't done they said the coverage was void. If
you have Avemco I wonder just what, if any, coverage you really have. Look
up the case if your interested. I dropped Avemco after that one !!
Since then it is my understanding they have changed their attitude on this
sort of thing, but you wonder ?
4. Illegitimus non carborundum !
John at Salida, CO
Message 13
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| Subject: | Aeroquip hose ID |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which
is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass
pickup at the end. My question is about the inside
diameter of the aeroquip hose.
Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID
of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip
hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems
like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel
flow.
I called Van's and they said that no one has had a
problem with this, but I really want to find out if
this is normal.
I have some pictures here, if it helps clarify things.
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040625174334102
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
At 12:03 25/6/2004, John Huft wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
>Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very
>sporting of them.
>
>Any other ideas anyone?
>
>Thanks again, John
It looks like you can purchase them direct from Nav Canada, or try the
official list of distributors:
Nav Canada:
1-866-731-PUBS (7827) or
email at <mailto:aeropubs@navcanada.ca>aeropubs@navcanada.ca
List of distributors:
<http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?Language=EN&Content=ContentDefinitionFiles%5CPublications%5CAeronauticalInfoProducts%5CDistributors%5Cdefault.xml>
That URL might be chopped into two lines by the e-mail system.
Kevin Horton
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." <matronicspost@csg-i.com>
Has anyone asked what evidence the insurance companies have that older
pilots cause more claims, thereby justifying the higher premiums?
I've never seen a study on that and would sure like to see one.
FYI: my mother-in-law's car insurance premium went down with age. What's so
different about aviation insurance?
And by the way, what hard evidence is there that performing more medicals
reduces the claim rate? If this were truly the case, don't you think auto
insurers would offer a lower rate to those people willing to undergo more
frequent medicals?
This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Regards,
Paul
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Thanks everyone!
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Are Barstad" <are_barstad@norlogic.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: canadian charts
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Are Barstad" <are_barstad@norlogic.com>
>
> You can get Canadian sectionals at www.aviationworld.ca
>
> Are
> RV-8 Wings
> www.ontariorvators.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft
> To: Rv-List@Matronics.Com
> Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
>
> TIA John Huft
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip hose ID |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker <retasker@optonline.net>
Unless you are running a fuel injected engine with 30-40 GPH flow the
difference is totally irrelevant. Even in your case where you are
running fuel injection (I think you are), the short length of 1/4" line
will have a small effect on total restriction - on the order of a few
inches of water restriction (0.1 psi drop or so).
If the rest of your feed line is 3/8 and you don't have too many bends
and fittings, then the 1/4" section of line can be ignored.
All that said, anytime you can reduce a restriction (within reason - no
1" lines :-) ) you are better off.
Dick Tasker
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which
>is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass
>pickup at the end. My question is about the inside
>diameter of the aeroquip hose.
>
>Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID
>of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip
>hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems
>like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel
>flow.
>
>I called Van's and they said that no one has had a
>problem with this, but I really want to find out if
>this is normal.
>
>I have some pictures here, if it helps clarify things.
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040625174334102
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
The insurance business is truly a screwy one. If gender can come into
play, why not age? Why not race? Well, because there is a razor-thin
line the insurance companies must tread between adjusting premiums &
policies based upon statistics and 'discriminating'. I don't agree with
it...but it happens.
Maybe JT can answer this: Does gender play a role in aviation insurance
premiums?
- Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: Patty and Dan krueger <pndkrueg@mchsi.com>
Air Ways @ http://www.flyairways.com/
Has Canadian charts for $13.20 plus postage which runs about $3+
Dan Krueger
RV6A Flying
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance Requirement Change |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 11:38 25/06/2004 "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." >
> Has anyone asked what evidence the insurance companies have that older
> pilots cause more claims, thereby justifying the higher premiums?
>
> I've never seen a study on that and would sure like to see one.
Thanks to google (and yes, these are mostly automotive related, but I don't
see that flying is any different than driving in this case... If you're not
safe to drive, you're probably not safe to fly):
<http://www.car-accident-lawyers-attorneys.com/car_accident_statistics.html>
Car Accident Death Statistics 2001 (a summary) - Suggesting that people in
the the age groups of 15-25 and 75+ are over-represented.
<http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/srdriving>
"A recent study published in the Journal of Gerontology found that the
number of severe crashes, driver fatalities, and pedestrian fatalities per
mile traveled increases sharply once a driver becomes 65 years old."
<http://individual.utoronto.ca/rwjang/elderlyDriver.html>
Large list of research papers into elderly drivers.
<http://www.sfu.ca/mediapr/sfu_news/archives_2003/sfunews11270314.htm>
Older drivers actually have fewer accidents than most other age groups,
because there are fewer of them. But mathematically they are more likely to
have an accident than most other age groups.
> FYI: my mother-in-law's car insurance premium went down with age. What's
> so different about aviation insurance?
How old is she? Did she take (or pass) any exams or remedial tests that
would show that her skills are not deteriorating?
> And by the way, what hard evidence is there that performing more medicals
> reduces the claim rate? If this were truly the case, don't you think auto
> insurers would offer a lower rate to those people willing to undergo more
> frequent medicals?
It's intuitively obvious (at least to me) that at *some point*, your skills
will deteriorate to the point you can't fly a plane anymore. Even if
you're in otherwise perfect health, if you live to 100 (or beyond), you may
not be capable of flying an aircraft. It's an unfortunate side effect of
aging. Now, whether it causes any accidents or not, that remains to be
seen.
Unfortunately data for flying is difficult to find on the 'net, at least in
a quick search I just did over my lunch hour. The data i've seen seems
exclusivly related to transport-rated pilots, as there is a lot of
discussion of the "age 60" rule, when commercial pilots must retire. So
far i've found this:
<http://www.cami.jccbi.gov/aam-400A/AGE60/age60_2.pdf>
A review of accident statistics for age groups up to age 60. This shows a
peak in the group aged 40-49, and less accidents in age group 50-59.
However, this data is limited to the ATP-rated fleet of pilots, so there's
no reason for it to have data for pilots over age 60.
> This whole thing stinks to high heaven.
No, it just "stinks" of statistics. Unfortunately, many people don't
understand statistics, so the data largely goes either ignored or
misunderstood. Most accident statistics are reported in terms of number of
accidents, and leaves out any normalizing by number of hours flown, number
of pilots in that particular age group, etc. Unless the data is normalized
in some way, you're not comparing apples to oranges.
If I could find some raw data listing Accidents, pilot ages, hours flown,
etc., I would be willing to crunch them into some useful numbers myself.
Even better if the numbers are for General Aviation and not Commercial.
I'll keep looking.
-Rob
Do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | New autopilot model |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
Trio Avionics has just announced the EZ Pilot II autopilot, which
incorporates new, often requested features. If you've have an interest,
stop by and see us at the Arlington (WA) fly-in July 7-11. Effective today
we are offering an "Arlington" $100 discount on both models, through July
11th. http://www.trioavionics.com <http://www.trioavionics.com/>
Jerry Hansen (affiliated with the company)
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling mounting without prop |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Hi Marty:
The measurement on my 6A from the face of the starting ring at the crank
flange to the back of the backing plate is 2 and 1/32 inches. The backing
plate has a doubter on the back and this measurement is from the face of the
ring gear to the doubter. The backing plate for the spinner is mounted to
the prop with a washer and a 1/4 inch spacer between it and the prop. Some
may leave this washer out so that would add the width of the washer to my
measurement.
Hope this is what you are looking for.
Eustace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cowling mounting without prop
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
>
> Listers:
> I have some instructions for mounting my cowling without having a prop in
> hand. I would like to set up my RV-6 for a C/S Hartzell and wanted to know
> from someone that has mounted the cowling in this fashion, what the
correct
> spacing is from the crankshaft starting ring to the back of the spinner.
I
> believe it is 2.25". Anyone have some advice on this?
> Marty in Brentwood TN
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
OK Folks,
There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine power"
and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are getting 16
gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel injection system.
Now the last time we talked about this it was said that the best they could
possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single
stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly
be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a
turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there?
Wayne
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: canadian charts |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
Canadian VNCs now cost $21CDN, directly from the government map supply
outlet. I just bought 5 of them here in Winnipeg. That's just under $16 USD.
Production and sale of aviation charts is now the responsibility of Nav
Canada, the arms-length non-profit company that was spun off from the
government a few years ago. Unfortunately they also have no competition, and
the air travel slowdown after 9/11 really hit their revenues hard. So
without the government subsidization that would have helped them through the
lean years, they have been jacking up prices for all their services in order
to balance their books.
If there is an upside to ethe privatization of aviation services, I haven't
seen it yet. The service they provide is generally good, but then it always
has been IMHO.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very
> sporting of them.
>
> Any other ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks again, John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> >
> > Sporty's has them...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> > To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> > >
> > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
> > >
> > > TIA John Huft
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | The Annual Inspection - Powerplant; a new video |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
I don't normally spam on this list, but I've been working on this video for
about a year, its my first one, and I'm kinda proud of it. So here goes:
THE ANNUAL INSPECTION - POWERPLANT 55 minutes
Follow Westwood College of Aviation A&P instructors Tim Guerrera and
Vaughn Dowell through a step by step demonstration of an annual inspection
of the powerplant section of a Lycoming 0-360. This video explains every
step of the process from an initial AD search to the final log entries.
Each procedure is detailed including compression check, ignition timing,
spark plug service, exhaust pressure check, oil change, fuel system,
propeller, electrical system, etc..... , showing the proper techniques
along with plenty of professional hints and tips. A final segment details
safety wiring techniques as used throughout the powerplant section.
Most of this video was filmed at Westwood College in Denver using a
Piper Archer, however a few segments were done locally in Granby, CO with my
RV-6A and hangarmate Dave Cook's RV-6.
available now in DVD and VHS
from Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com/annual_inspection_powerplant.htm
800 780-4115
...and to sweeten up the spam, mention "Matronics" when you order and get
25% off through the end of June.
Thanks,
Andy
RV-6A N-5060 flying
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip hose ID |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 6/25/2004 10:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes:
I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which
is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass
pickup at the end. My question is about the inside
diameter of the aeroquip hose.
Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID
of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip
hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems
like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel
flow.
I called Van's and they said that no one has had a
problem with this, but I really want to find out if
this is normal.
===========================================
Fittings aside, 3/8" aluminum hard fuel line is measured by OD with a .035"
wall and flex line is measured by ID. The resulting .305" ID of hard line
will drop a small amount of pressure over the length from tank to pump in our
low flow (<20 gph) application. IMO, the pressure drop added by an 18" run
of 1/4" ID flex line would be slight in terms of the overall system drop. You
can test the effect yourself empirically by setting up a small siphon test
of your own.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 703 hrs)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: turbine power |
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr@teleport.com>
At 17:55 2004-06-25, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>OK Folks,
>
> There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable
> Turbine power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that
> they are getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an
> automotive type fuel injection system. Now the last time we talked about
> this it was said that the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1
> to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over
> 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of
> fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments
> from you engineers out there?
>
>Wayne
Engineer comment: ..show me..
Mike McGee, PE
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode, RD-1C, EC-2
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Cabin heat slide valve |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dweiler@nomadwi.com>
Fellow Listers:
One of our enterprising MN Wing members is now manufacturing a really neat
and clean cabin heat valve. It is a flush mounted slide valve that adapts
well to the side-by-side RVs.
Thought you might be interested. Here's his website:
http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/Slidevalve/
Thanks
Doug Weiler
pres, MN Wing
RV-4, almost finished painting at Razor's Edge
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: turbine power |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>OK Folks,
>
> There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine power"
and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are getting 16
gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel injection system.
Now the last time we talked about this it was said that the best they
could possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single
stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly
be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running
a turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there?
>
>Wayne
>
At SNF this spring I asked the ATP guy what speed & fuel burn they are
now getting in their RV-4 now that they have fixed the exhaust angle. He
said that they were burning 14gph at 140 mph. I believe that the hp
required to fly a -4 at 140 mph is well under 100.
It would be cool, but...
Charlie
Message 30
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
Hi Kurt
Best prices I could find on Canadian maps, and I just spent over $150
(ouch)!
Don't pay full list price ($21 ?) to Nav-Canada when Calgary Pilot Supply
has VNC & WAC charts at $14.89 Cdn. Walk in price is higher and best price
is internet order http://www.cyberpilotshop.com/. If you feel uneasy about
giving credit card number on internet, order on internet and then phone in
your credit card number. Note Calgary Pilot Supply has higher price on some
items such as Canada Flight Supplement than some others.
George in Langley
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Curt Reimer
Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
--> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer@mb.sympatico.ca>
Canadian VNCs now cost $21CDN, directly from the government map supply
outlet. I just bought 5 of them here in Winnipeg. That's just under $16 USD.
Production and sale of aviation charts is now the responsibility of Nav
Canada, the arms-length non-profit company that was spun off from the
government a few years ago. Unfortunately they also have no competition, and
the air travel slowdown after 9/11 really hit their revenues hard. So
without the government subsidization that would have helped them through the
lean years, they have been jacking up prices for all their services in order
to balance their books.
If there is an upside to ethe privatization of aviation services, I haven't
seen it yet. The service they provide is generally good, but then it always
has been IMHO.
Curt
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
>
> Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very
> sporting of them.
>
> Any other ideas anyone?
>
> Thanks again, John
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" <dburton@nwlink.com>
> >
> > Sporty's has them...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> > To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8tor@lazy8.net>
> > >
> > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals?
> > >
> > > TIA John Huft
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DejaVu" <wvu@mail.ameritel.net>
Unless the regs have changed, no problems when I last flew into Toronto in
2000 with 3" numbers on the fin. The FBO at Buffalo Muni gave me an 800
number to call Toronto. I got a very hospitable lady at the other end, as I
find in most Canadians. She just asked who you are, who your daddy is....
and gave a confirmation number in case anyone gives you trouble. I didn't
find it to be a big deal. Now US Customs was a different story but I won't
go into that. Make sure you have proper papers to re-enter the country.
Ahn,
RV-6, Maryland
----- Original Message -----
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" <gmcnutt@uniserve.com>
>
> Subject: RV-List: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada?
>
>
> Hi Dan
>
> The short answer is "NO".
>
> The long answer is that the bureaucrats have screwed up our regulations so
> badly that nobody really knows exactly what is required for this simple
item
> anymore.
>
> George in Langley
> (6 inch numbering)
>
>
> -------------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Do I really need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? The reason I ask
is
> because of something specified in the document:
>
> STANDARDISED VALIDATION OF A SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE -
> EXPERIMENTAL, FOR THE PURPOSE OF OPERATING A UNITED STATES - REGISTERED
> AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT IN CANADIAN AIRSPACE
>
> (jeez, what a long title) That's a document that I'm required to have with
> me, and it says:
>
> "3. the nationality and registration marks assigned to the aircraft by the
> Federal Aviation Administration shall be displayed on the aircraft in
> accordance with the requirements of the United States;"
>
> Well, the requirements of the US...that's 3" numbers. I'm not clear on
> whether that means I can get by with 3" numbers or whether I'll need 12"
> numbers...anybody know the real deal?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> ---
> Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
>
> ---
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 32
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| Subject: | Aeroquip hose ID |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
My IO-360 sucks up to 14gph+ through that little flop tube, both right side
up and upside down....200+hrs and no troubles yet!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vanremog@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 6/25/2004 10:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes:
I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which
is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass
pickup at the end. My question is about the inside
diameter of the aeroquip hose.
Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID
of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip
hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems
like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel
flow.
I called Van's and they said that no one has had a
problem with this, but I really want to find out if
this is normal.
===========================================
Fittings aside, 3/8" aluminum hard fuel line is measured by OD with a .035"
wall and flex line is measured by ID. The resulting .305" ID of hard line
will drop a small amount of pressure over the length from tank to pump in
our
low flow (<20 gph) application. IMO, the pressure drop added by an 18"
run
of 1/4" ID flex line would be slight in terms of the overall system drop.
You
can test the effect yourself empirically by setting up a small siphon test
of your own.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 703 hrs)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Empennage video for sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim/Kathy" <mac39@e-z.net>
Selling the Orndorff 6/8 pre-punched empennage videos. 2 video set. Approx 3.5
hrs. $39 new; will sell for 15.00 plus postage.
Thanks.
Respond to
Jim McNamara
mac39@e-z.net
do not archive
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Well, let's run the numbers (BSFC that is).
If the Turbine is in fact burning:
16 @ 250hp, that = (16x6.8)/250 = BSFC of .432
13 @ 200hp, that = (13x6.8)/200 = BSFC of .442
That is HIGHLY suspect, because the well known published BSFC numbers for
the old Solar T-62 are between 1.0-1.2 which would equate to something more
like (hp/6.8) with a BSFC of 1:
250hp, 37gph
200hp, 29gph
180hp, 26gph
150hp, 22gph
100hp, 14gph
Now, taking the scenario below that Charlie used, that 100hp would equate to
14gph.....that's what my IO-360 burns ar full tilt at takeoff, near sea
level and with a BSFC of .5, I'm probably developing around my rated 180hp,
a typical published BSFC for most 4 stroke gas engines. Too keep everyone
from getting bored with numbers, I did some basic & rudimetnary guestimation
(based on my 180hpRV6 cruise #'s), and believe it only takes aroun 80-85hp
to do 140. Using that number, the turbine is now burning 14gph at 85hp,
brings us to a BSFC of 1.1, a much more realistic probability for that
engine. If you follow that number up, you get a LOT of fuel burn at higher
hp.
The BSFC calculations have been around since before my time, and are fairly
well known. Typcial BSFC's are:
Small Turboshafts, 1.0-1.2 +/-
Large Turboshafts, .65-.7 +/-
2 Stroke Pistons, .58-.64 +/-
Wankels (Rotaries), .47-.50 +/-
4 Sroke GAS Piston, .4-.5 +/-
4 Stroke DIESEL, .3-.4 +/-
That being said, there have been some very creative folks with engines on
airplanes and have gotten BSFC's down in the low .3's.
I guess each person needs to make their own choice, but I'll stand by the
historically published numbers until I see proof of something else. That
means flying one of their turbine powered RV's next to a comparable powered
Lyc, and measuring fuel burned. I hope they do well, and truly would like
to see a bunch of Jet powered RV's out there, but I'm VERY skeptical. If in
fact that engine is only burning 13gph @ 200hp, I'll be standing in line to
buy one.
Might be a SUPER engine, or might be a pig with lipstick.....only time will
tell.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
P.S., Somebody, somewhere has GOT to know by now what those engines are
drinking. The fact that it hasn't been actively and acurately published and
verified by the mfgr is another sign.....
Do not archive this mess I created!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie England
Subject: Re: RV-List: turbine power
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture"
<commando@cox-internet.com>
>
>OK Folks,
>
> There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine
power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are
getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel
injection system. Now the last time we talked about this it was said that
the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel
per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going
on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would
be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there?
>
>Wayne
>
At SNF this spring I asked the ATP guy what speed & fuel burn they are
now getting in their RV-4 now that they have fixed the exhaust angle. He
said that they were burning 14gph at 140 mph. I believe that the hp
required to fly a -4 at 140 mph is well under 100.
It would be cool, but...
Charlie
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