---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/25/04: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:18 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms) 2. 06:24 AM - Re: Re:Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms) 3. 06:42 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Ollie Washburn) 4. 06:51 AM - Dynon Inatallation in Memphis area? (Bill VonDane) 5. 07:12 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (John Helms) 6. 07:25 AM - canadian charts (John Huft) 7. 07:50 AM - Re: canadian charts (David Burton) 8. 08:54 AM - Re: canadian charts (Gary Zilik) 9. 09:03 AM - Re: canadian charts (John Huft) 10. 09:23 AM - Re: canadian charts (Rob Prior) 11. 09:27 AM - Re: canadian charts (Are Barstad) 12. 09:44 AM - Insurance Requirements (John) 13. 09:59 AM - Aeroquip hose ID (Mickey Coggins) 14. 10:54 AM - Re: canadian charts (Kevin Horton) 15. 11:40 AM - Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Paul Boyce, Ph.D.) 16. 12:12 PM - Re: canadian charts (John Huft) 17. 12:36 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Richard Tasker) 18. 12:40 PM - Re: Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Jamie Painter) 19. 12:59 PM - Re: canadian charts (Patty and Dan krueger) 20. 01:34 PM - Re: Re: Insurance Requirement Change (Rob Prior) 21. 03:42 PM - New autopilot model (Jerry Hansen) 22. 04:50 PM - Re: Cowling mounting without prop (Eustace Bowhay) 23. 05:57 PM - turbine power (Wayne R. Couture) 24. 05:58 PM - Re: canadian charts (Curt Reimer) 25. 07:21 PM - The Annual Inspection - Powerplant; a new video (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 26. 07:46 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Vanremog@aol.com) 27. 08:06 PM - Re: turbine power (Michael McGee) 28. 08:08 PM - Cabin heat slide valve (Doug Weiler) 29. 08:26 PM - Re: turbine power (Charlie England) 30. 08:39 PM - Re: canadian charts (GMC) 31. 09:10 PM - Re: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? (DejaVu) 32. 09:21 PM - Re: Aeroquip hose ID (Stein Bruch) 33. 10:02 PM - Empennage video for sale (Jim/Kathy) 34. 10:36 PM - Re: turbine power (Stein Bruch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:18:33 AM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is GREAT!. And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you were talking about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk when an insured turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry about the million $'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull coverage). Let's see what your options would be as an insurer... 1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that because it is illegal in most states. 2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his age. (why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by most states is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60 days prior to the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND require the annual medical (get up in arms about that.) 3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that you know he is a better risk). Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free market, but signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing quotes to a new agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which write aviation insurance. And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most good agencies work with all the companies. Your implication that he's getting poor advice is frankly ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs. And you think I don't know what all the markets are doing on older pilots? And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new business. (and before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to use age as a discriminator when it is new business.) So, signing a broker of record letter won't help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct writer. With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and screaming, I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies willing to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a very small marketplace and making an insurance company do something it doesn't want to would likely make them do something drastic like ceasing writing homebuilt coverages at all. We certainly don't need fewer market. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: Charlie England To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent designation' letter & go see another agent. Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost you is your time to go elsewhere & ask. In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market. Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this? Charlie RV9 wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 > >Hello John, > >It looks to me like you have at least three choices >besides selling the plane. > >1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage. >2. Take the yearly medical exam. >3. Fly without insurance. > >They are listed in my personal order of preference. > >Steve Mottin >RV-9A Fuselage >N609RV (Reserved) >Granbury, Texas > >Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote: > >-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" > >J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program, when >J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of age or >J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL >J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only requires the >J> exam every TWO years. > >J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the EAA >J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another pilot >J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants. > >J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane? > >J> John at Salida, CO > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:14 AM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" Are you aware that AVEMCO provides less coverage than any other with respect to their liability coverage? All companies (except AVEMCO) write their liability coverage as (for example) $1 Million per occurrence with $100,000 sublimit per passenger. AVEMCO limits that $100,000 to each person. That is right, they limit anyone who may get hurt whether they're inside or outside the plane. You can say no to your 30 year old doctor when he asks you for a ride, but if you crash land on a road and hit his Lexus and kill him, and his wife sues you for $1,000,000 AVEMCO would only pay out $100,000 for his death. Any other company out there would pay the whole million. AND AVEMCO further sublimits that $100,000 to $25,000 if the person injured is a family member of yours (the owner). They make their coverages sound the same as what other companies offer, but they aren't. And they try and hide things in their policy (like family sublimits.) That is why having an agent who can go to all the available markets and advise you on them is best. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: Oldsfolks@aol.com To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 8:43 PM Subject: RV-List: Re:Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com I am insured with AVEMCO for liability only and they haven't said anything like that. I'm 72. I just renewed my policy. I tried the EAA plan and they wouldn't insure me at all because I fly from an 1100' grass strip,with our RV-4. That didn't sound like a good system for sport flyers who want to fly to home strips. My neighbor has their policy and it would cost a bunch more to have grass strip coverage for his RV-6A. Most of the fun little fly-ins around here are on grass strips,so the EAA plan can go jump, as far as I'm concerned. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:16 AM PST US From: "Ollie Washburn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" And what happens when and IF the sport pilot rules are passed with no medical ? Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" > > Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is GREAT!. And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you were talking about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk when an insured turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry about the million $'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull coverage). Let's see what your options would be as an insurer... > > 1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that because it is illegal in most states. > > 2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his age. (why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by most states is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60 days prior to the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND require the annual medical (get up in arms about that.) > > 3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that you know he is a better risk). > > Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free market, but signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing quotes to a new agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which write aviation insurance. And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most good agencies work with all the companies. Your implication that he's getting poor advice is frankly ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs. And you think I don't know what all the markets are doing on older pilots? > > And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new business. (and before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to use age as a discriminator when it is new business.) So, signing a broker of record letter won't help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct writer. > > With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and screaming, I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies willing to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a very small marketplace and making an insurance company do something it doesn't want to would likely make them do something drastic like ceasing writing homebuilt coverages at all. We certainly don't need fewer market. > > JT > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlie England > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent > designation' letter & go see another agent. > > Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't > right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost > you is your time to go elsewhere & ask. > > In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance > underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market. > > Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this? > > Charlie > > > RV9 wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 > > > >Hello John, > > > >It looks to me like you have at least three choices > >besides selling the plane. > > > >1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage. > >2. Take the yearly medical exam. > >3. Fly without insurance. > > > >They are listed in my personal order of preference. > > > >Steve Mottin > >RV-9A Fuselage > >N609RV (Reserved) > >Granbury, Texas > > > >Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote: > > > >-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" > > > >J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program, when > >J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of age or > >J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL > >J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only requires the > >J> exam every TWO years. > > > >J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the EAA > >J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another pilot > >J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants. > > > >J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane? > > > >J> John at Salida, CO > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:57 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Dynon Inatallation in Memphis area? rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane I just got an email from my YAK-52 buddy who knows a guy with a CJ-6A who is looking to install a Dynon and was looking for anyone with one already flying in the Memphis area... If you can help let me know and I will get you in contact! Thanks! -Bill PS... I got a ride in a CJ a couple weeks ago! YAAA HAAAA!!! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:39 AM PST US From: "John Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" Then you can get insurance thru the EAA's program and be stuck with a company that will surcharge you due to your age. That company (Global Aerospace) surcharges a little bit over their normal rates for each year past age 60. I don't quite get why some of you are less upset by those companies which just want to charge you more money than you are by the annual medical which Phoenix has chosen to do for those pilots over 70 years old. That doesn't seem to fit with the frugality of many RV'ers I've known. I wouldn't bet the farm on the Sport Pilots License. While the EAA Program and other companies have been "sport pilot ready" for quite some time, you must realize that like any other group of insureds, if the loss ratio's are higher for those with merely a Sport Pilot license, then the premiums for that group will go up. Or, they'll stop insuring those with Sport Pilots Licenses altogether. Please realize that these insurance companies make decisions based numbers which are very easy for them to calculate. The fact that they are "sport pilot ready" doesn't mean that they will ignore business decisions. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: Ollie Washburn To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 25, 2004 8:38 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" And what happens when and IF the sport pilot rules are passed with no medical ? Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Helms" To: Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" > > Charlie, the annual medical requirement in lieu of charging more money is GREAT!. And it gives people an option. You see, if it were your money you were talking about, you would be looking for some way to lessen your risk when an insured turned XX (some age at which point you started to worry about the million $'s of liability and perhaps the $60K or so worth of hull coverage). Let's see what your options would be as an insurer... > > 1. Cancel his coverage because he turned XX. Ooops, nope, can't do that because it is illegal in most states. > > 2. Increase the premium for that individual by surcharging it due to his age. (why the heck aren't you all up in arms about that?). Max allowed by most states is 20% per year unless the insurance company notifies you 60 days prior to the renewal date. Some companies surcharge for age AND require the annual medical (get up in arms about that.) > > 3. Tighten up the requirements... (i.e. require an annual medical so that you know he is a better risk). > > Those are your only options. And as for a free market, it is a free market, but signing a Broker of Record letter merely assigns the existing quotes to a new agent as is. There are only 8 companies out there which write aviation insurance. And fewer still which will do homebuilts. Most good agencies work with all the companies. Your implication that he's getting poor advice is frankly ludicruous. My office insures over 1000 RVs. And you think I don't know what all the markets are doing on older pilots? > > And by the way, most companies won't take a 74 year old on as new business. (and before you all get up in arms, yes it's legal for them to use age as a discriminator when it is new business.) So, signing a broker of record letter won't help. He could try calling AVEMCO, the direct writer. > > With regard to your comment about dragging insurance companies kicking and screaming, I think you should be happy that there are insurance companies willing to take on aviation risks, especially homebuilts. It is already a very small marketplace and making an insurance company do something it doesn't want to would likely make them do something drastic like ceasing writing homebuilt coverages at all. We certainly don't need fewer market. > > JT > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Charlie England > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 7:09 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Insurance Requirement Change > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > There is a 4th option (my 1st choice): sit down, write that 'agent > designation' letter & go see another agent. > > Maybe the agent is correct & you're just out of luck. Maybe he/she isn't > right & you have other options with other underwriters. All it will cost > you is your time to go elsewhere & ask. > > In my opinion, we should do everything we can to drag a/c insurance > underwriters kicking & screaming back into the free market. > > Anybody out there using AOPA's underwriter who has gone through this? > > Charlie > > > RV9 wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV9 > > > >Hello John, > > > >It looks to me like you have at least three choices > >besides selling the plane. > > > >1. Pay the extra $350 dollars/year for coverage. > >2. Take the yearly medical exam. > >3. Fly without insurance. > > > >They are listed in my personal order of preference. > > > >Steve Mottin > >RV-9A Fuselage > >N609RV (Reserved) > >Granbury, Texas > > > >Thursday, June 24, 2004, 2:52:31 PM, you wrote: > > > >-->> RV-List message posted by: "John" > > > >J> I was just informed by Nation Air that under the Van Guard program, when > >J> writing on Phoenix Aviation Underwriters, that pilots 70 years of age or > >J> older are now required by the underwriter to have an ANNUAL MEDICAL > >J> examination... class 3 for private pilot...even though FAA only requires the > >J> exam every TWO years. > > > >J> The agent suggested that the annual exam isn't required under the EAA > >J> program for the same coverage, but having just checked for another pilot > >J> that the rate would be $350 more than Phoenix wants. > > > >J> Any suggestions short of selling the plane? > > > >J> John at Salida, CO > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:20 AM PST US From: "John Huft" Subject: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? TIA John Huft ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:50:18 AM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" Sporty's has them... ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" Subject: RV-List: canadian charts > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > TIA John Huft > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:24 AM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik Canada I just could not resist. I think I bought mine through Sporty's Gary Do Not Archive John Huft wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > TIA John Huft > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:27 AM PST US From: "John Huft" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very sporting of them. Any other ideas anyone? Thanks again, John ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > > Sporty's has them... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Huft" > To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > > > TIA John Huft > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:07 AM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" On 7:24 25/06/2004 "John Huft" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? Here's a list of sources from the Nav Canada (publisher of the maps) website: If that link is broken due to it's length, go to www.navcanada.ca, choose "Aeronautical Information Products" from the left column, then "Purchase Information", then "List of Distributors". Sporty's is listed, as well as Aero Training Products, which is a Canadian company that can deliver to the US as well. Check what the current edition is and when the next scheduled publication will be (a few are due out this month, a couple others in August) at this page: (Aeronautical Information Products -> Aeronautical Charts -> List of Charts) -Rob ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:57 AM PST US From: "Are Barstad" Subject: RE: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "Are Barstad" You can get Canadian sectionals at www.aviationworld.ca Are RV-8 Wings www.ontariorvators.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft Subject: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? TIA John Huft --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:06 AM PST US From: "John" Subject: RV-List: Insurance Requirements 0.3 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters --> RV-List message posted by: "John" I have decided to accept the annual medical required by Phoenix Aviation Underwriters for several reasons: 1. Being upset doesn't change anything. 2. The annual might just be in my best interests from a health standpoint. 3. Avemco should be viewed in light of their handling of the infamous Davenport case where payment was refused when a fuel system change was made, then re-changed again to original configuration and then an off-airport landing occured where some property damage was done. Avemco held that there should have been a new airworthiness inspection upon the first change, and another one when the system was restored to its original configuration; since that wasn't done they said the coverage was void. If you have Avemco I wonder just what, if any, coverage you really have. Look up the case if your interested. I dropped Avemco after that one !! Since then it is my understanding they have changed their attitude on this sort of thing, but you wonder ? 4. Illegitimus non carborundum ! John at Salida, CO ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:59:39 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass pickup at the end. My question is about the inside diameter of the aeroquip hose. Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel flow. I called Van's and they said that no one has had a problem with this, but I really want to find out if this is normal. I have some pictures here, if it helps clarify things. http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040625174334102 Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:08 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton At 12:03 25/6/2004, John Huft wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > >Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very >sporting of them. > >Any other ideas anyone? > >Thanks again, John It looks like you can purchase them direct from Nav Canada, or try the official list of distributors: Nav Canada: 1-866-731-PUBS (7827) or email at aeropubs@navcanada.ca List of distributors: That URL might be chopped into two lines by the e-mail system. Kevin Horton ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:18 AM PST US From: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Subject: RV-List: Re: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." Has anyone asked what evidence the insurance companies have that older pilots cause more claims, thereby justifying the higher premiums? I've never seen a study on that and would sure like to see one. FYI: my mother-in-law's car insurance premium went down with age. What's so different about aviation insurance? And by the way, what hard evidence is there that performing more medicals reduces the claim rate? If this were truly the case, don't you think auto insurers would offer a lower rate to those people willing to undergo more frequent medicals? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. Regards, Paul ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:01 PM PST US From: "John Huft" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" Thanks everyone! John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Are Barstad" Subject: RE: RV-List: canadian charts > --> RV-List message posted by: "Are Barstad" > > You can get Canadian sectionals at www.aviationworld.ca > > Are > RV-8 Wings > www.ontariorvators.org > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft > To: Rv-List@Matronics.Com > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > TIA John Huft > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > --- > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:15 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Unless you are running a fuel injected engine with 30-40 GPH flow the difference is totally irrelevant. Even in your case where you are running fuel injection (I think you are), the short length of 1/4" line will have a small effect on total restriction - on the order of a few inches of water restriction (0.1 psi drop or so). If the rest of your feed line is 3/8 and you don't have too many bends and fittings, then the 1/4" section of line can be ignored. All that said, anytime you can reduce a restriction (within reason - no 1" lines :-) ) you are better off. Dick Tasker Mickey Coggins wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >Hi, > >I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which >is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass >pickup at the end. My question is about the inside >diameter of the aeroquip hose. > >Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID >of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip >hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems >like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel >flow. > >I called Van's and they said that no one has had a >problem with this, but I really want to find out if >this is normal. > >I have some pictures here, if it helps clarify things. > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040625174334102 > >Thanks, >Mickey > > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:40:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Insurance Requirement Change From: "Jamie Painter" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" The insurance business is truly a screwy one. If gender can come into play, why not age? Why not race? Well, because there is a razor-thin line the insurance companies must tread between adjusting premiums & policies based upon statistics and 'discriminating'. I don't agree with it...but it happens. Maybe JT can answer this: Does gender play a role in aviation insurance premiums? - Jamie do not archive -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts From: Patty and Dan krueger --> RV-List message posted by: Patty and Dan krueger Air Ways @ http://www.flyairways.com/ Has Canadian charts for $13.20 plus postage which runs about $3+ Dan Krueger RV6A Flying ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:39 PM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Insurance Requirement Change --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" On 11:38 25/06/2004 "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Boyce, Ph.D." > > Has anyone asked what evidence the insurance companies have that older > pilots cause more claims, thereby justifying the higher premiums? > > I've never seen a study on that and would sure like to see one. Thanks to google (and yes, these are mostly automotive related, but I don't see that flying is any different than driving in this case... If you're not safe to drive, you're probably not safe to fly): Car Accident Death Statistics 2001 (a summary) - Suggesting that people in the the age groups of 15-25 and 75+ are over-represented. "A recent study published in the Journal of Gerontology found that the number of severe crashes, driver fatalities, and pedestrian fatalities per mile traveled increases sharply once a driver becomes 65 years old." Large list of research papers into elderly drivers. Older drivers actually have fewer accidents than most other age groups, because there are fewer of them. But mathematically they are more likely to have an accident than most other age groups. > FYI: my mother-in-law's car insurance premium went down with age. What's > so different about aviation insurance? How old is she? Did she take (or pass) any exams or remedial tests that would show that her skills are not deteriorating? > And by the way, what hard evidence is there that performing more medicals > reduces the claim rate? If this were truly the case, don't you think auto > insurers would offer a lower rate to those people willing to undergo more > frequent medicals? It's intuitively obvious (at least to me) that at *some point*, your skills will deteriorate to the point you can't fly a plane anymore. Even if you're in otherwise perfect health, if you live to 100 (or beyond), you may not be capable of flying an aircraft. It's an unfortunate side effect of aging. Now, whether it causes any accidents or not, that remains to be seen. Unfortunately data for flying is difficult to find on the 'net, at least in a quick search I just did over my lunch hour. The data i've seen seems exclusivly related to transport-rated pilots, as there is a lot of discussion of the "age 60" rule, when commercial pilots must retire. So far i've found this: A review of accident statistics for age groups up to age 60. This shows a peak in the group aged 40-49, and less accidents in age group 50-59. However, this data is limited to the ATP-rated fleet of pilots, so there's no reason for it to have data for pilots over age 60. > This whole thing stinks to high heaven. No, it just "stinks" of statistics. Unfortunately, many people don't understand statistics, so the data largely goes either ignored or misunderstood. Most accident statistics are reported in terms of number of accidents, and leaves out any normalizing by number of hours flown, number of pilots in that particular age group, etc. Unless the data is normalized in some way, you're not comparing apples to oranges. If I could find some raw data listing Accidents, pilot ages, hours flown, etc., I would be willing to crunch them into some useful numbers myself. Even better if the numbers are for General Aviation and not Commercial. I'll keep looking. -Rob Do not archive ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:06 PM PST US From: "Jerry Hansen" Subject: RV-List: New autopilot model --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" Trio Avionics has just announced the EZ Pilot II autopilot, which incorporates new, often requested features. If you've have an interest, stop by and see us at the Arlington (WA) fly-in July 7-11. Effective today we are offering an "Arlington" $100 discount on both models, through July 11th. http://www.trioavionics.com Jerry Hansen (affiliated with the company) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:50:39 PM PST US From: "Eustace Bowhay" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling mounting without prop --> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" Hi Marty: The measurement on my 6A from the face of the starting ring at the crank flange to the back of the backing plate is 2 and 1/32 inches. The backing plate has a doubter on the back and this measurement is from the face of the ring gear to the doubter. The backing plate for the spinner is mounted to the prop with a washer and a 1/4 inch spacer between it and the prop. Some may leave this washer out so that would add the width of the washer to my measurement. Hope this is what you are looking for. Eustace ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" Subject: RV-List: Cowling mounting without prop > --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" > > Listers: > I have some instructions for mounting my cowling without having a prop in > hand. I would like to set up my RV-6 for a C/S Hartzell and wanted to know > from someone that has mounted the cowling in this fashion, what the correct > spacing is from the crankshaft starting ring to the back of the spinner. I > believe it is 2.25". Anyone have some advice on this? > Marty in Brentwood TN > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:27 PM PST US From: "Wayne R. Couture" Subject: RV-List: turbine power --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" OK Folks, There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel injection system. Now the last time we talked about this it was said that the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there? Wayne ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:28 PM PST US From: "Curt Reimer" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" Canadian VNCs now cost $21CDN, directly from the government map supply outlet. I just bought 5 of them here in Winnipeg. That's just under $16 USD. Production and sale of aviation charts is now the responsibility of Nav Canada, the arms-length non-profit company that was spun off from the government a few years ago. Unfortunately they also have no competition, and the air travel slowdown after 9/11 really hit their revenues hard. So without the government subsidization that would have helped them through the lean years, they have been jacking up prices for all their services in order to balance their books. If there is an upside to ethe privatization of aviation services, I haven't seen it yet. The service they provide is generally good, but then it always has been IMHO. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very > sporting of them. > > Any other ideas anyone? > > Thanks again, John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Burton" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > > > > Sporty's has them... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Huft" > > To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" > > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > > > > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > > > > > TIA John Huft > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:34 PM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: RV-List: The Annual Inspection - Powerplant; a new video --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" I don't normally spam on this list, but I've been working on this video for about a year, its my first one, and I'm kinda proud of it. So here goes: THE ANNUAL INSPECTION - POWERPLANT 55 minutes Follow Westwood College of Aviation A&P instructors Tim Guerrera and Vaughn Dowell through a step by step demonstration of an annual inspection of the powerplant section of a Lycoming 0-360. This video explains every step of the process from an initial AD search to the final log entries. Each procedure is detailed including compression check, ignition timing, spark plug service, exhaust pressure check, oil change, fuel system, propeller, electrical system, etc..... , showing the proper techniques along with plenty of professional hints and tips. A final segment details safety wiring techniques as used throughout the powerplant section. Most of this video was filmed at Westwood College in Denver using a Piper Archer, however a few segments were done locally in Granby, CO with my RV-6A and hangarmate Dave Cook's RV-6. available now in DVD and VHS from Builder's Bookstore http://www.buildersbooks.com/annual_inspection_powerplant.htm 800 780-4115 ...and to sweeten up the spam, mention "Matronics" when you order and get 25% off through the end of June. Thanks, Andy RV-6A N-5060 flying ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:37 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 6/25/2004 10:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass pickup at the end. My question is about the inside diameter of the aeroquip hose. Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel flow. I called Van's and they said that no one has had a problem with this, but I really want to find out if this is normal. =========================================== Fittings aside, 3/8" aluminum hard fuel line is measured by OD with a .035" wall and flex line is measured by ID. The resulting .305" ID of hard line will drop a small amount of pressure over the length from tank to pump in our low flow (<20 gph) application. IMO, the pressure drop added by an 18" run of 1/4" ID flex line would be slight in terms of the overall system drop. You can test the effect yourself empirically by setting up a small siphon test of your own. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 703 hrs) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:35 PM PST US From: Michael McGee Subject: Re: RV-List: turbine power --> RV-List message posted by: Michael McGee At 17:55 2004-06-25, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" > >OK Folks, > > There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable > Turbine power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that > they are getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an > automotive type fuel injection system. Now the last time we talked about > this it was said that the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1 > to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over > 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of > fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments > from you engineers out there? > >Wayne Engineer comment: ..show me.. Mike McGee, PE Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode, RD-1C, EC-2 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:36 PM PST US From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: RV-List: Cabin heat slide valve --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" Fellow Listers: One of our enterprising MN Wing members is now manufacturing a really neat and clean cabin heat valve. It is a flush mounted slide valve that adapts well to the side-by-side RVs. Thought you might be interested. Here's his website: http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/Slidevalve/ Thanks Doug Weiler pres, MN Wing RV-4, almost finished painting at Razor's Edge ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:09 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: turbine power --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Wayne R. Couture wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" > >OK Folks, > > There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel injection system. Now the last time we talked about this it was said that the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there? > >Wayne > At SNF this spring I asked the ATP guy what speed & fuel burn they are now getting in their RV-4 now that they have fixed the exhaust angle. He said that they were burning 14gph at 140 mph. I believe that the hp required to fly a -4 at 140 mph is well under 100. It would be cool, but... Charlie ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:38 PM PST US From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" Hi Kurt Best prices I could find on Canadian maps, and I just spent over $150 (ouch)! Don't pay full list price ($21 ?) to Nav-Canada when Calgary Pilot Supply has VNC & WAC charts at $14.89 Cdn. Walk in price is higher and best price is internet order http://www.cyberpilotshop.com/. If you feel uneasy about giving credit card number on internet, order on internet and then phone in your credit card number. Note Calgary Pilot Supply has higher price on some items such as Canada Flight Supplement than some others. George in Langley -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Curt Reimer Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts --> RV-List message posted by: "Curt Reimer" Canadian VNCs now cost $21CDN, directly from the government map supply outlet. I just bought 5 of them here in Winnipeg. That's just under $16 USD. Production and sale of aviation charts is now the responsibility of Nav Canada, the arms-length non-profit company that was spun off from the government a few years ago. Unfortunately they also have no competition, and the air travel slowdown after 9/11 really hit their revenues hard. So without the government subsidization that would have helped them through the lean years, they have been jacking up prices for all their services in order to balance their books. If there is an upside to ethe privatization of aviation services, I haven't seen it yet. The service they provide is generally good, but then it always has been IMHO. Curt ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > Canadian VNC charts cost $16 CAD. Sporty's charges $16 US for them. Very > sporting of them. > > Any other ideas anyone? > > Thanks again, John > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Burton" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: canadian charts > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" > > > > Sporty's has them... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Huft" > > To: "Rv-List@Matronics.Com" > > Subject: RV-List: canadian charts > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" > > > > > > Where can I buy Canadian sectionals? > > > > > > TIA John Huft > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:33 PM PST US From: "DejaVu" Subject: Re: RV-List: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? --> RV-List message posted by: "DejaVu" Unless the regs have changed, no problems when I last flew into Toronto in 2000 with 3" numbers on the fin. The FBO at Buffalo Muni gave me an 800 number to call Toronto. I got a very hospitable lady at the other end, as I find in most Canadians. She just asked who you are, who your daddy is.... and gave a confirmation number in case anyone gives you trouble. I didn't find it to be a big deal. Now US Customs was a different story but I won't go into that. Make sure you have proper papers to re-enter the country. Ahn, RV-6, Maryland ----- Original Message ----- From: "GMC" Subject: RE: RV-List: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? > --> RV-List message posted by: "GMC" > > Subject: RV-List: need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? > > > Hi Dan > > The short answer is "NO". > > The long answer is that the bureaucrats have screwed up our regulations so > badly that nobody really knows exactly what is required for this simple item > anymore. > > George in Langley > (6 inch numbering) > > > ------------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Do I really need 12" N-numbers for flight into Canada? The reason I ask is > because of something specified in the document: > > STANDARDISED VALIDATION OF A SPECIAL AIRWORTHINESS CERTIFICATE - > EXPERIMENTAL, FOR THE PURPOSE OF OPERATING A UNITED STATES - REGISTERED > AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT IN CANADIAN AIRSPACE > > (jeez, what a long title) That's a document that I'm required to have with > me, and it says: > > "3. the nationality and registration marks assigned to the aircraft by the > Federal Aviation Administration shall be displayed on the aircraft in > accordance with the requirements of the United States;" > > Well, the requirements of the US...that's 3" numbers. I'm not clear on > whether that means I can get by with 3" numbers or whether I'll need 12" > numbers...anybody know the real deal? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > --- > > > --- > > --- ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 09:21:21 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" My IO-360 sucks up to 14gph+ through that little flop tube, both right side up and upside down....200+hrs and no troubles yet! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroquip hose ID --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 6/25/2004 10:00:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: I'm looking at the flop tube supplied by Van's, which is basically a bit of aeroquip hose with a brass pickup at the end. My question is about the inside diameter of the aeroquip hose. Normally an AN8XX fitting of size -6 should have an ID of 6/16" or 3/8", right? For some reason, the aeroquip hose on the flop tube is less than 1/4". This seems like it could be quite a problem by restricting fuel flow. I called Van's and they said that no one has had a problem with this, but I really want to find out if this is normal. =========================================== Fittings aside, 3/8" aluminum hard fuel line is measured by OD with a .035" wall and flex line is measured by ID. The resulting .305" ID of hard line will drop a small amount of pressure over the length from tank to pump in our low flow (<20 gph) application. IMO, the pressure drop added by an 18" run of 1/4" ID flex line would be slight in terms of the overall system drop. You can test the effect yourself empirically by setting up a small siphon test of your own. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 703 hrs) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:45 PM PST US From: "Jim/Kathy" Subject: RV-List: Empennage video for sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim/Kathy" Selling the Orndorff 6/8 pre-punched empennage videos. 2 video set. Approx 3.5 hrs. $39 new; will sell for 15.00 plus postage. Thanks. Respond to Jim McNamara mac39@e-z.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:03 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: turbine power --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Well, let's run the numbers (BSFC that is). If the Turbine is in fact burning: 16 @ 250hp, that = (16x6.8)/250 = BSFC of .432 13 @ 200hp, that = (13x6.8)/200 = BSFC of .442 That is HIGHLY suspect, because the well known published BSFC numbers for the old Solar T-62 are between 1.0-1.2 which would equate to something more like (hp/6.8) with a BSFC of 1: 250hp, 37gph 200hp, 29gph 180hp, 26gph 150hp, 22gph 100hp, 14gph Now, taking the scenario below that Charlie used, that 100hp would equate to 14gph.....that's what my IO-360 burns ar full tilt at takeoff, near sea level and with a BSFC of .5, I'm probably developing around my rated 180hp, a typical published BSFC for most 4 stroke gas engines. Too keep everyone from getting bored with numbers, I did some basic & rudimetnary guestimation (based on my 180hpRV6 cruise #'s), and believe it only takes aroun 80-85hp to do 140. Using that number, the turbine is now burning 14gph at 85hp, brings us to a BSFC of 1.1, a much more realistic probability for that engine. If you follow that number up, you get a LOT of fuel burn at higher hp. The BSFC calculations have been around since before my time, and are fairly well known. Typcial BSFC's are: Small Turboshafts, 1.0-1.2 +/- Large Turboshafts, .65-.7 +/- 2 Stroke Pistons, .58-.64 +/- Wankels (Rotaries), .47-.50 +/- 4 Sroke GAS Piston, .4-.5 +/- 4 Stroke DIESEL, .3-.4 +/- That being said, there have been some very creative folks with engines on airplanes and have gotten BSFC's down in the low .3's. I guess each person needs to make their own choice, but I'll stand by the historically published numbers until I see proof of something else. That means flying one of their turbine powered RV's next to a comparable powered Lyc, and measuring fuel burned. I hope they do well, and truly would like to see a bunch of Jet powered RV's out there, but I'm VERY skeptical. If in fact that engine is only burning 13gph @ 200hp, I'll be standing in line to buy one. Might be a SUPER engine, or might be a pig with lipstick.....only time will tell. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. P.S., Somebody, somewhere has GOT to know by now what those engines are drinking. The fact that it hasn't been actively and acurately published and verified by the mfgr is another sign..... Do not archive this mess I created!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: turbine power --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Wayne R. Couture wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" > >OK Folks, > > There's a new article in "Kitbuilt Airplanes" about "Affordable Turbine power" and there Solar turbine engine. Again they boast that they are getting 16 gph at 250 hp and 13 gph at 200 hp using an automotive type fuel injection system. Now the last time we talked about this it was said that the best they could possibly get would be about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds of fuel per hp with a single stage compressor. That's over 20 gph! So what's going on? Could they possibly be getting that kind of fuel burn? It sure would be COOL to be running a turbine. Any comments from you engineers out there? > >Wayne > At SNF this spring I asked the ATP guy what speed & fuel burn they are now getting in their RV-4 now that they have fixed the exhaust angle. He said that they were burning 14gph at 140 mph. I believe that the hp required to fly a -4 at 140 mph is well under 100. It would be cool, but... Charlie