---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 07/02/04: 31 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:00 AM - Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] (Matt Dralle) 2. 06:27 AM - Body filler? (Shemp) 3. 06:34 AM - Re: Body filler? (Bruce Gray) 4. 06:42 AM - FW: 48 States report (Wheeler North) 5. 07:22 AM - Re: Body filler? (Scott Bilinski) 6. 07:43 AM - Pre-purchase inspection (C P) 7. 08:29 AM - Re: ignition problem (Lwfeatherston@aol.com) 8. 09:37 AM - RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly (Pete Howell) 9. 10:48 AM - Re: ignition problem (Bob 1) 10. 10:52 AM - garmin 296 (ray sheffield) 11. 11:01 AM - Re: ignition problem (Scott Bilinski) 12. 11:24 AM - Re: garmin 296 (Scott Bilinski) 13. 12:33 PM - Re: garmin 296 (David Burton) 14. 01:42 PM - Roll servo install (TruTrak) (BGCrook@aol.com) 15. 01:58 PM - Re: Roll servo install (TruTrak) (Pat Hatch) 16. 02:11 PM - Re: marketing practices (was garmin 296). (Stein Bruch) 17. 02:18 PM - Re: Roll servo install (TruTrak) (Ross Mickey) 18. 02:41 PM - Re: Roll servo install (TruTrak) (Laird Owens) 19. 03:17 PM - Re: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly (Ben Cunningham) 20. 03:30 PM - Re: ignition problem (Jerry Springer) 21. 03:46 PM - Re: ignition problem (Konrad Werner) 22. 03:58 PM - KOLZ ???? (Tom Gummo) 23. 04:32 PM - Re: ignition problem (Dan Checkoway) 24. 05:33 PM - Re: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly (Mike Nellis) 25. 05:41 PM - Re: KOLZ ???? (RV6 Flyer) 26. 05:48 PM - Re: ignition problem (RV6 Flyer) 27. 06:19 PM - Re: ignition problem (Stein Bruch) 28. 06:31 PM - Re: ignition problem (Alex Peterson) 29. 06:37 PM - Re: KOLZ ???? (Tom Gummo) 30. 08:30 PM - Re: ignition problem (Charlie Kuss) 31. 09:09 PM - Hot start (was: Ignition problem) (Dan Checkoway) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:00:41 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RV-List: Official Usage Guideline [Please Read] [Monthly Posting] DNA: do not archive --> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Dear Lister, Please read over the RV-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete RV-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/RV-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** RV-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the RV-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the RV-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. RV-List Policy Statement The purpose of the RV-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. ------- [This is an automated posting.] ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:23 AM PST US From: "Shemp" Subject: RV-List: Body filler? --> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" A few months ago I spoke with someone about filling gaps between fairings and the plane. I cant remember what type of filler was recommended. I know evercoat has been highly recommended but there are many different types of evercoat. I bought some metal glaze but was told by the auto guy that it would crack at anything more that the minimum thickness. Any suggestions would be appreciated. (Well at least most of them) Thanks Jeff Dowling RV-6a Chicago/ Louisville ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:56 AM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Body filler? --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Most of the Glasair guys use Evercoat Rage. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Shemp Subject: RV-List: Body filler? --> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" A few months ago I spoke with someone about filling gaps between fairings and the plane. I cant remember what type of filler was recommended. I know evercoat has been highly recommended but there are many different types of evercoat. I bought some metal glaze but was told by the auto guy that it would crack at anything more that the minimum thickness. Any suggestions would be appreciated. (Well at least most of them) Thanks Jeff Dowling RV-6a Chicago/ Louisville == == == == ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:42:32 AM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: FW: 48 States report --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North T-minus 8 hours... I just got word that our email server is being moved into a new building this weekend so I will be offline for the first few days of the trip. I'll try daily anyways as our guru's are usually pretty good about keeping the juice flowing. Not much to say about the last few prep items. The plane is topped off, and about as full of ca ca as I usually am. For those of you who know me well I'm sure that you will be amazed if it gets off the ground. First stop is Minden Lake Tahoe. This is just east of the lake on the east side of the ridge that forms the eastern edge of the lake. There are currently two wild fire air attack TFRs on either side of it so I will be using Trukee and Reno as alternates in case of smoke. Next stop after that will be Scappoose Oregon, which is north west of Portland by about 20 miles. It usually has great fuel prices. >From there I will shoot for Arlington Washington if it is not too late and the WX is good. The last three days it has seemed to be cruddy and scuddy in the mornings up there but nice and clear in the afternoons and evenings so it would be nice to get there in one day and arrive in the evening. If not I'll overnight in Vernonia, which is a nice little grass strip halfway to the coast west of Portland. The approach is down a short valley, yank back on the stick, turn left as you stop and start camping about ten feet away from the runway. Not sure what happens if another plane comes in a little off course, but there's a few stout trees I can pitch my tent behind. Last few times I camped there no other planes appeared. Those of you alums of the Mike Seger school of scaring your flight instructor half to death will remember this airport as the one where he gets to show you how a real pilot does it flawlessly. The up side of staying here is its a really pretty place to spend the night, and Mike usually drops out for a visit if he's in town. The dwonside is that I may not be able to get onward up coast until the afternoon. If this happens I'll plan on popping over to Auaora, or Independance for lunch, then head on North. For the rest of the weekend I am working on setup at the flyin, or doing whatever lowly tasks the chiefs would ask of me to do. I may head down on Monday to Umaqua Oregon to meet a friend who is bringing his flawless newly restored Stearman Biplane up to the flyin. I can't wait to fly alongside that one over the pudget sound and take a few shots with the islands as a backdrop. Well, off to bed, early to rise, Keep the blue side up on landings... W ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:01 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Body filler? --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski There is a filler that I really like it's called All Metal (Evercoat?) it is a polyester filler with high aluminium powder fill. I would guess its about 75% aluminium powder. It will expand and contract the same as the plane, I would think it would old up better than any other type fill on aluminium. I will let you know in a few years if its holding up... You can find it at the local auto body shop/paint store. If your still not sure what to use always consult the experts, call Evercoat. I have talked to guys in their lab about how well things hold up. Its great talking to people who know everything about the product. At 08:25 AM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" > >A few months ago I spoke with someone about filling gaps between fairings >and the plane. I cant remember what type of filler was recommended. I >know evercoat has been highly recommended but there are many different >types of evercoat. I bought some metal glaze but was told by the auto guy >that it would crack at anything more that the minimum thickness. > >Any suggestions would be appreciated. (Well at least most of them) > >Thanks >Jeff Dowling >RV-6a >Chicago/ Louisville > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:28 AM PST US From: C P Subject: RV-List: Pre-purchase inspection --> RV-List message posted by: C P Hi, I have a friend who is choosing between two RV-6s. He needs help finding A&Ps, DARs, or even experienced builders capable of helping with pre-purchase inspections. One is in Bangor, ME, the other is in Ft. Myers, FL. Any help would be appreciated! Mike can be reached at MnwPeeps@aol.com. cheers, Chuck __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:29:09 AM PST US From: Lwfeatherston@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com In your most recent e-mail which I unfortunately erased, you stated that "if it is not the mag, no one here knows what to do next." I am not trying to be cute but can "anyone there" spell _klaus@lightspeedengineering_ (mailto:klaus@lightspeedengineering) . I have both of my semi-inoperative mags which were recently overhauled by a very reputable shop in a cabinet in the hangar, and two of LightSpeeds wonderful electronic ignitions on my engine. I have no scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, and never have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about $350 per. (You'll need a backup battery and wiring for $25 to $75 depending.) My Lycoming hot starts on the second blade everytime. Dang! Life is good. You can pay me now, or pay me later. Thanks Klaus! Les Featherston N206KT Harmon Rocket II "Airgasm" with 70 hrs. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:37:55 AM PST US From: "Pete Howell" Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly --> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" Hello, I am ready to begin work on my RV-9 QB fuse and will require a stand/cradle/dolly that will enable me to move it about the garage on wheels. Has anyone built something like this that they can recommend? Is it wise to tie into the wing spar wood blocks? TIA Pete ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:48:03 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > --> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com > I have no > scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely > correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, and never > have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about > $350 per. When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF to back up sincere opinion..... please post. Bob - from the Show Me state ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:30 AM PST US From: "ray sheffield" Subject: RV-List: garmin 296 --> RV-List message posted by: "ray sheffield" Looking for the best price on a new garmin 296 hand held gps ray rv8a@csranet.com ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:30 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I flew with a friend, him, a stock O-360. Me an IO-360 with dual EI and injectors matched. Him and RV-8 me an RV-8a. I use 1.5 gallons less per hour. At 12:47 PM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com > > > I have no > > scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely > > correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, >and never > > have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about > > $350 per. > > >When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF >to back up sincere opinion..... >please post. > > >Bob - from the Show Me state > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:25 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: garmin 296 --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Spinners Pilot Shop $1680.00. Everyone else looks to be $1695.00 At 01:52 PM 7/2/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "ray sheffield" > >Looking for the best price on a new garmin 296 hand held gps > >ray > >rv8a@csranet.com > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:09 PM PST US From: "David Burton" Subject: Re: RV-List: garmin 296 --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" Garmin has told their dealers that if they discount this they will be cut off. They are not even supposed to offer free shipping to lower the price. I thought that the days of price fixing were long gone, but there apparently is legislation in place allowing manufacturers to do this. I tried to look it up but did could not find it. As I recall it was the Colgate act ? I'm sorry to see Garmin do this... I was looking at the 296 too. I don't plan to purchase anything from them except the updates for my 195 and 430 until they change this policy. I'm going to talk to their rep at Arlington on Wenesday to see what he knows about this. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:30 PM PST US From: BGCrook@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) --> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com Hello, I searched the archives and didn't find what I was looking for so here is my question. I'm getting close to finishing the left wing (RV-7) and I would like to install the TruTrak AP. I haven't yet purchased the unit so I'm not sure if I should close up the left wing or not. My question is which wing does it mount in. On the TT website shows a left wing install, but I have heard from another builder that his actually mounted in the right wing. I know it could be installed later, but I'd rather just mount the servo and run the wiring while I have better access. I have sent a couple e-mails to TT and have gotten no reply. Thanks, Bryon Crook -7 wings ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:45 PM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" Bryon, You can put it in either wing...just let them know which wing you chose when you ask for the install kit, which includes all the brackets, hardware and connectors you will need. Ask for the drawing for the wing you select, otherwise you might have to look at it in a mirror :-). Definitely do the install kit now, though. Let me know off line if you need any pictures or any other help. I have the Digiflight II VS in the RV-7, but I think they all use the same servos. Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 All Flying Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) > --> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com > > Hello, > > I searched the archives and didn't find what I was looking for so here > is my question. I'm getting close to finishing the left wing (RV-7) and I > would like to install the TruTrak AP. I haven't yet purchased the unit so I'm not > sure if I should close up the left wing or not. My question is which wing does > it mount in. On the TT website shows a left wing install, but I have heard > from another builder that his actually mounted in the right wing. I know it > could be installed later, but I'd rather just mount the servo and run the wiring > while I have better access. > > I have sent a couple e-mails to TT and have gotten no reply. > > Thanks, > Bryon Crook > -7 wings > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:44 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: marketing practices (was garmin 296). --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Actually, this is still VERY common practice among lots of retailed items, both aviation and non-aviation alike. It may seem stupid, but in our little aviation world it actually make sense. I woudn't hold this against Garmin, because guess what?? Bendix/King, Chelton, David Clark, Lycoming, Continental, etc.. all still have this type of policy. Sometimes it's disguised as a "MAP" or minimum adverstised price, but in the end it's the same thing. In fact, if you really did some fact finding, I think you'd find that a large majority of items are like that. I think you'd be surprised to find out how many aviation products are actually similar. Are you going to shut off your Lycoming, hand in your headset, give back all your flight instruments, strip the paint off your plane, let the air out of the tires, etc.. until those companies quit that?? Because guess what, they are all in the same boat. Oh, remember that Whopper/Big Mac you had earlier.....same story. Here's the reason for it. From the persective of someone who manufactures something and sells it through various outlets (avionics products for example), which I do. If I have product "x" which I sell for price "y" to the customer, I expect to make a certain profit from it. When I sell it to dealer, I naturally give them a good discount so they can make a profit also. In that profit margin, they need to cover their own costs, such as marketing, overhead, airshows, etc.. As soon as dealers start a price war and trying to undercut each other by a buck or two, everyone does the same thing until NO-ONE is making any money at all. People like the "online super pilot stores" of which many are just virtual businesses with no office, people, etc.. discount their stuff until the margin is literall razor thin. They just drop ship the stuff anyway, and provide no real customer service. It's kind of why the "group buy" thing will never really take off. The mfgrs & dealers hate it. Some guy with no intention whatsoever of running a real business, and doing the things required to run a business, like R&D, marketing, advertising, etc.. tries to get a mfgr to sell a lump of things directly to a group of people and do an end run around all the people who spent the money to make the product viable in the marketplace. This is basic marketing 101. You can't let your dealers dictate your pricing, or you'll all end up broke. There is always one guy who is stupid enough to sell things for $.01 of profit on a product, when the normal margin might be many times higher than that. He initially thinks that he can make up for margins by increasing quantity. In the end, that guy who is making 1% on all his sales goes tits up, meanwhile he's taken a significant chunk of business away from people who actually know how to run a business and are in it for the long run. This is especially difficult for those of us who have small businesses and also sell products directly. You have to realize that many of the products that we use in our airplanes go through at least 4 or more levels before they reach the consumer. Each one of those levels makes a profit. I know it sucks, and in an ideal works we'd all buy directly from the mfgrs, but the reality is not that way. Many newer small companies I've dealt with like Dynon, BMA, GRT, etc.. have all been finding out about this lesson the hard way over the past year. At first it seems attractive to sign up a heap of dealerships to "let people sell things for you", then you find out the dealers are fighting amongst themselves for marketshare, meanwhile your product pricing power is degraded to a point where someone is selling the thing for cost, making everyone look like bank-robbers, and no-one turns a profit. Don't get me wrong, I'm an airplane builder and consumer aw well, and like the next guy I always try to save a buck. That being said, I'm not one of those people who spends an hour driving to save $4.00 on my gas tank fill up. Very few people in the aviation world are getting rich from their businesses, and I just wanted to give a little perspective from us "little guys" into why those things work like that. I think you'll see more and more of the "virtual" dealer type companies dissapear for the very same reasons. Sorry for the rant. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Burton Subject: Re: RV-List: garmin 296 --> RV-List message posted by: "David Burton" Garmin has told their dealers that if they discount this they will be cut off. They are not even supposed to offer free shipping to lower the price. I thought that the days of price fixing were long gone, but there apparently is legislation in place allowing manufacturers to do this. I tried to look it up but did could not find it. As I recall it was the Colgate act ? I'm sorry to see Garmin do this... I was looking at the 296 too. I don't plan to purchase anything from them except the updates for my 195 and 430 until they change this policy. I'm going to talk to their rep at Arlington on Wenesday to see what he knows about this. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:57 PM PST US From: "Ross Mickey" Subject: RE: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" I installed mine in the right wing. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be mounted in either wing. I think they have installation hardware for both. While you may be able to install it after you close the wing, it would be A LOT easier to do it before. I even made a separate inspection plate under mine for easy access. Ross Mickey RV6A N9PT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BGCrook@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) --> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com Hello, I searched the archives and didn't find what I was looking for so here is my question. I'm getting close to finishing the left wing (RV-7) and I would like to install the TruTrak AP. I haven't yet purchased the unit so I'm not sure if I should close up the left wing or not. My question is which wing does it mount in. On the TT website shows a left wing install, but I have heard from another builder that his actually mounted in the right wing. I know it could be installed later, but I'd rather just mount the servo and run the wiring while I have better access. I have sent a couple e-mails to TT and have gotten no reply. Thanks, Bryon Crook -7 wings ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:56 PM PST US From: Laird Owens Subject: Re: RV-List: Roll servo install (TruTrak) --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens Byron, I found that mounting it the wing was a little tighter than I liked (RV-6), so I mounted the servo out on the wing tip and used a pushrod to the bellcrank. My buddy mounted his in the seat pan, which I like better because it's easier to wire, and you don't need the servo until your working on the finish kit. Pictures of both installs are at: http://www.rvproject.com/trutrak.html Good luck Laird RV-6 (950hrs ) SoCal On Jul 2, 2004, at 1:41 PM, BGCrook@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: BGCrook@aol.com > > Hello, > > I searched the archives and didn't find what I was looking for > so here > is my question. I'm getting close to finishing the left wing (RV-7) > and I > would like to install the TruTrak AP. I haven't yet purchased the unit > so I'm not > sure if I should close up the left wing or not. My question is which > wing does > it mount in. On the TT website shows a left wing install, but I have > heard > from another builder that his actually mounted in the right wing. I > know it > could be installed later, but I'd rather just mount the servo and run > the wiring > while I have better access. > > I have sent a couple e-mails to TT and have gotten no reply. > > Thanks, > Bryon Crook > -7 wings > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:47 PM PST US From: "Ben Cunningham" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly --> RV-List message posted by: "Ben Cunningham" Hi Pete, fwiw, I used a padded saw horse right under the spar and an old office chair with vertical adjustment under the tail. Put the saw horse on wheels if you want. Works great. Simple. You will need to remove those wood blocks soon enough to work in the area forward of the spar. Ben Cunningham 71313 RV7 Finish Kit Crossflow Subaru ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Howell" Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly > --> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" > > > Hello, > > I am ready to begin work on my RV-9 QB fuse and will require a > stand/cradle/dolly that will enable me to move it about the garage on > wheels. Has anyone built something like this that they can > recommend? > > Is it wise to tie into the wing spar wood blocks? > > TIA > > Pete > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:30:31 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Yes, and I can burn the same or less than a friend with a O-320 and me with a O-360, with mags,depends on many things, such as how well an airplane is built, power settings, props, altitude etc. You are not saving 1.5 gallons an hour with EI. I also have friends with them and they say no fuel saving at all. Jerry Scott Bilinski wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >I flew with a friend, him, a stock O-360. Me an IO-360 with dual EI and >injectors matched. Him and RV-8 me an RV-8a. I use 1.5 gallons less per hour. > > >At 12:47 PM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com >>> >>> >>>I have no >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, >>> >>> >>and never >> >> >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about >>>$350 per. >>> >>> >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF >>to back up sincere opinion..... >>please post. >> >> >>Bob - from the Show Me state >> >> >> >> > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:33 PM PST US From: "Konrad Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" Jerry, Exactly which E.I.-System do your friends run? Lightspeed? Jeff Rose? Lasar? or are there any other one's out there? Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Springer To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 4:25 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Yes, and I can burn the same or less than a friend with a O-320 and me with a O-360, with mags,depends on many things, such as how well an airplane is built, power settings, props, altitude etc. You are not saving 1.5 gallons an hour with EI. I also have friends with them and they say no fuel saving at all. Jerry Scott Bilinski wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > >I flew with a friend, him, a stock O-360. Me an IO-360 with dual EI and >injectors matched. Him and RV-8 me an RV-8a. I use 1.5 gallons less per hour. > > >At 12:47 PM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com >>> >>> >>>I have no >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, >>> >>> >>and never >> >> >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about >>>$350 per. >>> >>> >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF >>to back up sincere opinion..... >>please post. >> >> >>Bob - from the Show Me state >> >> >> >> > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:58:58 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: KOLZ ???? --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Looking at the airports to use on the way to OSH, I found KOLZ, Oelwein Municipal in Oelwein, Iowa. Any of you local guys know if there is anything wrong with this airport? It looks like there is no food within 4 miles. :-( I was planning on staying there overnight (camping) and then have a short hop to OSH the next morning. It has gas and camping on field. Thanks, Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:12 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" The "IO" factor plays a big part in the equation, especially with the AFP injection and matched injectors like Scott's talking about. You can pull that puppy LOP and it'll run smooth and cool...burning a heck of a lot less fuel than any "O" engine will at the same MP/RPM setting, since the carb'd setup is pretty much forced to run ROP. do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > Yes, and I can burn the same or less than a friend with a O-320 and me > with a O-360, with mags,depends on many things, such as how well > an airplane is built, power settings, props, altitude etc. You are not > saving 1.5 gallons an hour with EI. I also have friends with > them and they say no fuel saving at all. > > Jerry > > Scott Bilinski wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > >I flew with a friend, him, a stock O-360. Me an IO-360 with dual EI and > >injectors matched. Him and RV-8 me an RV-8a. I use 1.5 gallons less per hour. > > > > > >At 12:47 PM 7/2/2004 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com > >>> > >>> > >>>I have no > >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely > >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, > >>> > >>> > >>and never > >> > >> > >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about > >>>$350 per. > >>> > >>> > >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF > >>to back up sincere opinion..... > >>please post. > >> > >> > >>Bob - from the Show Me state > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >Scott Bilinski > >Eng dept 305 > >Phone (858) 657-2536 > >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:33:16 PM PST US From: "Mike Nellis" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Nellis" One of the guys in our chapter is making and selling just what you're looking for. (it's not me) http://bmnellis.com/eaa187/admin/index.php?sid=c3463d087f724c7ee311ab7ea702f 831 Mike Nellis RV-6 Fuselage N699BM 1947 Stinson 108-2 NC9666K http://bmnellis.com *** -----Original Message----- *** From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com *** [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pete Howell *** Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 11:40 AM *** To: rv-list@matronics.com *** Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Fuse stand/dolly *** *** *** --> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" *** --> *** *** *** Hello, *** *** I am ready to begin work on my RV-9 QB fuse and will *** require a stand/cradle/dolly that will enable me to move it *** about the garage on wheels. Has anyone built something *** like this that they can recommend? *** *** Is it wise to tie into the wing spar wood blocks? *** *** TIA *** *** Pete *** *** *** ============== *** Matronics Forums. *** ============== *** ============== *** ============== *** *** *** *** *** *** *** ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:44 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: KOLZ ???? --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Tom: I recommend OVS Boscobel as my last stop before Oshkosh and also as a RON. They have lots of courtesy cars and cheap hotels near by. A couple of guys on one trip even slept in the FBO office pilots lounge. Fuel is a little more money but my airplane has spent the night in a free hangar every night that I stayed there. A restaurant is a short hop in the free courtesy car and Paul that runs the FBO is the nicest person you would ever want to meet. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,521 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: KOLZ ???? --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Looking at the airports to use on the way to OSH, I found KOLZ, Oelwein Municipal in Oelwein, Iowa. Any of you local guys know if there is anything wrong with this airport? It looks like there is no food within 4 miles. :-( I was planning on staying there overnight (camping) and then have a short hop to OSH the next morning. It has gas and camping on field. Thanks, Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:47 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" I have Bendix mags on my 1961 O-320 engine. They have never let me down since I overhauled both of them for less than $320 (price if for both mags) over 1,521 hours ago. No where that I know of is there a requirement or need for a 250 hour overhaul. There is a 500 hour inspection and that has cost me only time and no material. I have spent more time troubleshooting other peoples LightSpeed EI that I have working on my mags. Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel with the EI. Last time I looked at the price, I could buy a NEW set of 2 Slick mags cheaper than I could 2 LightSpeed EI systems. The mags will also work with a complete electrical failure. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,521 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com > >>> > >>> > >>>I have no > >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely > >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, > >>> > >>> > >>and never > >> > >> > >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about > >>>$350 per. > >>> > >>> > >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF > >>to back up sincere opinion..... > >>please post. > >> > >> > >>Bob - from the Show Me state http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:43 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" True....but.... Here's my story. I'm going to replace on of my mags with an E.I. this summer because my IO-360 sucks to start when it's hot soaked - Plain and simple. I could care less about the claimed fuel savings, hp increase etc..., the one thing that seems to have been proven no matter which EI is used, is that the IO's all start better with EI than without. Oh, and before someone pipes in with the "holy grail" of heat soaked injected Lycoming starting, please don't. Just my opinion, we'll see how it does here after OSH. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis (1 Injected-360 & 1 Carburated-320.....guess which one is more fun to start when hot)! Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer Subject: Re: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" I have Bendix mags on my 1961 O-320 engine. They have never let me down since I overhauled both of them for less than $320 (price if for both mags) over 1,521 hours ago. No where that I know of is there a requirement or need for a 250 hour overhaul. There is a 500 hour inspection and that has cost me only time and no material. I have spent more time troubleshooting other peoples LightSpeed EI that I have working on my mags. Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel with the EI. Last time I looked at the price, I could buy a NEW set of 2 Slick mags cheaper than I could 2 LightSpeed EI systems. The mags will also work with a complete electrical failure. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,521 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Lwfeatherston@aol.com > >>> > >>> > >>>I have no > >>>scientific proof, but it is my sincere opinion that Klaus was absolutely > >>>correct when he said I would save at least one gallon of fuel per hour, > >>> > >>> > >>and never > >> > >> > >>>have to worry about a mag going bad before it's 250 hr overhaul at about > >>>$350 per. > >>> > >>> > >>When you have SCIENTIFIC PROOF > >>to back up sincere opinion..... > >>please post. > >> > >> > >>Bob - from the Show Me state http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:38 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > Look at other posts to prove that you will NOT save any fuel > with the EI. > Gary, I have done careful measurements on this very topic. What I have found is that without the electronic spark advance (I happen to have Lasar), it is possible to run smoothly more lean of peak than without, at least at power settings around 55 - 60%. I have AFP injection, but I'm not sure how much of a factor that is. What I have found, during direct comparisons on the same flight, is about 0.4 gph less fuel burn (at 55-60% power) with EI as compared to 25 degree advance mags. Lasar is the only system which allows this direct comparison, as it can be disabled in flight, reverting to straight magneto ignition. There is an additional fuel economy benefit of simply being able to run leaner with the EI. For the data simply comparing with and without EI, see: http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/fuelflow.htm Additionally, there is an RV7A here with a carb'd O360 with dual EI's. When we fly side by side, and run lean of peak, we have essentially the same fuel burn. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 493 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:14 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: KOLZ ???? --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Darn, now everybody will want to stay there. :-) Thanks, Gary GummiBear ----- Original Message ----- From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: KOLZ ???? > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" > > Tom: > > I recommend OVS Boscobel as my last stop before Oshkosh and also as a RON. > They have lots of courtesy cars and cheap hotels near by. A couple of guys > on one trip even slept in the FBO office pilots lounge. Fuel is a little > more money but my airplane has spent the night in a free hangar every night > that I stayed there. A restaurant is a short hop in the free courtesy car > and Paul that runs the FBO is the nicest person you would ever want to meet. > > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,521 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Tom Gummo" > To: "RV List" > Subject: RV-List: KOLZ ???? > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 15:57:33 -0700 > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > Looking at the airports to use on the way to OSH, I found KOLZ, Oelwein > Municipal in Oelwein, Iowa. > Any of you local guys know if there is anything wrong with this airport? > It looks like there is no food within 4 miles. :-( > I was planning on staying there overnight (camping) and then have a short > hop to OSH the next morning. It has gas and camping on field. > > Thanks, > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket-II > > do not archive > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > > > Get tips for maintaining your PC, notebook accessories and reviews in > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:31 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: RE: RV-List: ignition problem --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Alex, Your statement below is not quite true. Jeff Rose's ElectroAir Electronic ignition has the ability to allow the pilot to both monitor the amount of spark advance (an optional extra) and "defeat" the additional advance (return to a steady 25 degrees of advance) with the addition of 1 wire and a toggle switch. This feature is standard on his units. Charlie Kuss >snipped >Gary, I have done careful measurements on this very topic. What I have >found is that without the electronic spark advance (I happen to have >Lasar), it is possible to run smoothly more lean of peak than without, >at least at power settings around 55 - 60%. I have AFP injection, but >I'm not sure how much of a factor that is. What I have found, during >direct comparisons on the same flight, is about 0.4 gph less fuel burn >(at 55-60% power) with EI as compared to 25 degree advance mags. Lasar >is the only system which allows this direct comparison, as it can be >disabled in flight, reverting to straight magneto ignition. There is an >additional fuel economy benefit of simply being able to run leaner with >the EI. For the data simply comparing with and without EI, see: snipped ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:40 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: RV-List: Hot start (was: Ignition problem) --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > before someone pipes in with the "holy grail" of heat soaked injected > Lycoming starting, please don't. Can't....resist....commenting.....must.....type.....response..... 8-) I have the Airflow Performance injection and purge valve system on my IO-360-A1B6. I thought the purge valve would be the coolest thing sinced sliced bread. Never use it. Well...until today. In Vegas, it was over 90F on the ground, and for the very first time in 150 hours, my engine got heat soaked badly enough to inhibit starting right up. It would kick and then die. Repeat x3, regardless of various attempts. I actually went ahead and used the purge valve as it's intended -- purge valve open, throttle & mixture firewalled, boost pump on for 20-30 sec, purge valve closed, mixture cutoff, crank -- started right up. It really did help. Up until this point, hot starts have required very little effort, and I went from using the purge valve occasionally to not bothering and essentially never needing it. But I do see that in certain conditions it really does pay off. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com