Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Bob 1)
2. 12:27 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Bob 1)
3. 03:26 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Jim Sears)
4. 04:19 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming)
5. 04:35 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Jerry Springer)
6. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Rick Galati)
7. 04:42 AM - Re: [rv_list] Initial electrical set up (Wayne R. Couture)
8. 05:31 AM - RV Test Flight Pilots (don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister))
9. 06:21 AM - Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil (Scott Bilinski)
10. 06:21 AM - Re: RV Test Flight Pilots (Gary Zilik)
11. 06:37 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (DAVID REEL)
12. 06:44 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Ed Anderson)
13. 07:01 AM - Re: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
14. 07:15 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (linn walters)
15. 07:25 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Sam Buchanan)
16. 07:25 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (cgalley)
17. 07:57 AM - Steve Dinieri (Francis Malczynski)
18. 08:01 AM - Cowling door (bertrv6@highstream.net)
19. 08:58 AM - Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen)
20. 09:14 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Amit Dagan)
21. 09:33 AM - Re: Oil door question (HCRV6@aol.com)
22. 09:49 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
23. 09:54 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (HCRV6@aol.com)
24. 10:30 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (HCRV6@aol.com)
25. 10:43 AM - Bolt on roll bar handles? (HCRV6@aol.com)
26. 10:49 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Kathleen (rv7))
27. 10:55 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Bob 1)
28. 10:59 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Ralph E. Capen)
29. 11:01 AM - Re: Cowling door (Bob 1)
30. 11:03 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (DWENSING@aol.com)
31. 11:06 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen)
32. 11:09 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Kathleen (rv7))
33. 11:09 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (JusCash@aol.com)
34. 11:13 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Terry Watson)
35. 11:16 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (wgill10@comcast.net)
36. 11:17 AM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question (Bill VonDane)
37. 11:23 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Kathleen (rv7))
38. 11:32 AM - Re: Ailerons Tavel... (Jim & Bev Cone)
39. 11:40 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming)
40. 11:43 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen)
41. 11:46 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (JusCash@aol.com)
42. 12:01 PM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Skylor Piper)
43. 01:17 PM - EGT follow-up (SportAV8R@aol.com)
44. 01:18 PM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
45. 01:33 PM - Re: EGT follow-up (Sabswbc@aol.com)
46. 01:47 PM - Re: EGT follow-up (Skylor Piper)
47. 03:15 PM - IFR to Oshkosh (Ross Mickey)
48. 03:53 PM - Power settings (Berthet, Andre G)
49. 05:20 PM - Re: Power settings (Richard V. Reynolds)
50. 05:52 PM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming)
51. 06:12 PM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Stein Bruch)
52. 07:24 PM - flying to Oshkosh (Dave Ford)
53. 07:38 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Alex Peterson)
54. 07:39 PM - Re: Ailerons Tavel... (Jeff Dowling)
55. 07:52 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Jeff Dowling)
56. 08:00 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (John Ammeter)
57. 08:20 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Scott Vanartsdalen)
58. 08:30 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Jeff Dowling)
59. 08:54 PM - Watch out! (Donald Mei)
60. 09:01 PM - Fw: plans (j1j2h3@juno.com)
61. 09:09 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (HCRV6@aol.com)
62. 09:22 PM - Re: Fw: plans (Jerry Springer)
63. 09:35 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (RV6 Flyer)
64. 09:52 PM - Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers (Albert Gardner)
65. 10:18 PM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Kathleen (rv7))
66. 10:18 PM - Re: IFR to Oshkosh (Jeff Bertsch)
67. 10:30 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
>
> I've followed this thread from the first posting, and all along couldn't
> help think that I was reading only one half of the story. Thanks, Steve,
> for presenting the other half and filling in the story.
>
> I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch
the
> (alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the
> "let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies"
> bandwagon.
>
> Just my $0.02.
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I initially was thinking along your lines.....
and remained SAFELY SILENT in the thick of things.
Now with the issue resolved, it's a piece of cake to pile on...
playing 'Monday Morning Quarterback' as well as preacher.
Bob -
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W
<1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
> >I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch
the
> >(alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the
> >"let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family
emergencies"
> >bandwagon.
> >
> >
> >
> I hardly call waiting 6 weeks impatient. I could be wrong but I don't
> believe the original poster was aware of any family emergencies. If a
> girl from Siberia can send me 3 emails a week trying to scam me out of
> some money, someone living in the US with the means to build an RV can
> respond to email inquires about money due in less than 6 weeks.
===============================
Right on, Chris.
I don't know that this issue would have been resolved without pressure from
the group. Kudos to all that were proactive, IMO. Call me cynical, but until
the money is in hands of the seller, I'm still holding my breath a little.
Bob - born in the dark, but not last night.
Do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They
cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion,
take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long
time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own
airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to
pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed
and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by
a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too
small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of
aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my
own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and
will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and
even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere.
Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used
that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart.
It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought
there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as
wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers.
I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not
have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them,
either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but,
I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow
blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's
method of doing electrical things in your plane.
Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called
Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the
electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not
money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building
your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to
possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than
circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his
book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics
aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the
RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob
Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers
hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions
already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers
and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not
seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the
Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they
understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with
it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical
methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this --
if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why
Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses
fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit
breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many
fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence?
Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an
electrical stand point anyway.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
<kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by:
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
> >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
> >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> flyers.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
>using Bob's system.
>
And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying
aircraft that do not use the Bob K method
of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems
whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches
has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown
in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style
electrical systems and have not been a problem.
Jerry
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Well, halt the bandwagon and ready the rope!
I rented a house for 7 years and not once did the landlord have to dun me for late
rent. During that seven years as a tenant, I too had family emergencies.
Later in life, when I chose to be a landlord for a time, almost everybody I rented
an apartment to had some story, some excuse for eventually being late with
the rent. Sure, I screened people and demanded references. My tenants included
the son of the city attorney, a hotel manager, even an IRS agent. The stories
they could tell! That was then and this is now. I've done business with
people who are on this list. And the fact is, in most cases, you either have
to send goods or send payment as an article of faith. But RV'ers are for the
most part, a special breed. Faith comes easier. But as a buyer or as a seller,
the timely receipt of the product or the payment is also an article of faith.
"Family emergencies" need not apply............or linger on interminably week
after week.
So you actually bought that story when Johnny Fairplay tearfully told the tribe
his grandmother died?
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the
(alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the
"let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies"
bandwagon.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
Mount your CB's on one inch centers in the panel and then mount the buss bar
to the CB's. Drill one inch holes in the buss bar the size of the screws in
the CB's. This also helps hold the CB's from turning. I used Bob's
circuits but opted for CB's instead of fuses.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com>
Subject: [rv_list] RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by:
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> I want to know how does one mount the bus bar and where . Do you bolt it
to the back of the instrument panel and then the CB's to that? Where is
the best place for the starter and battery relays and contactors to be
located?
>
> Any pictures or advice will help?
>
> Shirley Harding RV6 QB
>
> Perth
> WA
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | RV Test Flight Pilots |
--> RV-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister)
Any flight test pilot going to the Alamosa,
Colorado Air Show/Fly-In this week end ?
First 20 experimentals that arrive before 9:30 AM Saturday July 17th get
10 gals. fuel free!! I need to discuss flight testing of my
finished/painted RV-6A - contact me off list. don522@webtv.net or
phone.
do not archive
Don McCallister, Airport Mgr.
Astronaut Kent Rominger Airport 8V1
Del Norte, Colorado 719 657-0846
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil |
cooler
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> cooler
Had a 7 row Niagara switched to a 10 row AERO-Classics. I saw a good 15
degree drop. I also increased the air flow from 3" to 3.5 inch ducting. The
reason I did this is for 2 reasons. First, to keep the oil in the 180
degree range I had to fly low RPM power settings (2300 RPM) with the 7 row.
Second in slow flight the temps would come up, so when flying into OSH I
dont want to worry about oil temps. The 100 kts arrival speed into OSH on a
90 plus degree day would have caused my oil temp to go up to about 220
maybe even higher. Now with the 10 row cooler on a 95 degree day OAT at
altitude and 100 kts I saw 195 steady on the oil temp.
.
At 06:17 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
>
>Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
>
>lucky
>
>In a message dated 7/14/2004 5:43:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>cooler
>
>Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is using
>in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on the
>bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
>from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me out
>of the larger cooler.
>
>
>At 05:08 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
> >Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the
> >"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
> >job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's
> >didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
> >replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
> >thinking of a different brand?
> >
> >There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
> >engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new
> >oil coolers.
> >
> >I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
> >from somewhere else if one of these works)?
> >
> >thanks,
> >lucky
> >
> >
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV Test Flight Pilots |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Bob,
I wish I was coming but the wife and I are racing in the CPA's
Denver-Jackpot Classic this weekend. There may be a couple of Denver
based RVs going to Alamosa for the pancakes.
Gary
Don McCallister wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister)
>
> Any flight test pilot going to the Alamosa,
> Colorado Air Show/Fly-In this week end ?
> First 20 experimentals that arrive before 9:30 AM Saturday July 17th get
> 10 gals. fuel free!! I need to discuss flight testing of my
> finished/painted RV-6A - contact me off list. don522@webtv.net or
> phone.
> do not archive
> Don McCallister, Airport Mgr.
> Astronaut Kent Rominger Airport 8V1
> Del Norte, Colorado 719 657-0846
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I think you'll be missing out on a lot of the education fun of your project if you don't read the AeroElectric Connection document available from the website www.aeroelectric.com.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
system
FWIW
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034@lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
> Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal
> EAA Technical Counselor
>
> Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>
> >Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> >my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> >and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> >flyers.
> >
> >
> >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Tedi, There are many European Builders on Vans Web Links and perhaps one
of them has more connections in your area. Welcome to the RV family!
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedi" <f.t@wp.pl>
Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200
(\214rodkowoeuropejs...
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tedi" <f.t@wp.pl>
>
>
> As a total newbee I am asking for help/info:
>
> Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's?
> What is the estimated % of parts that man has to or should buy from
producer
>
>
> I live in Poland - so I am interrested in aviability of kits or some parts
> in Europe. Is there someone from Czech Republic?
>
> Best regards
> Tadeusz Forgacz
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Ed Anderson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
>Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
>on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
>than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
>overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
>with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
>and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
>system
>
>FWIW
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>
I'm not going to take sides, but if the fuse block is within reach,
replacing a fuse from spares is just as easy. The bonus for ckt
breakers is that you will run out of fuses sooner or later, but can keep
resetting the ckt breaker over and over. This is a good thing if you
have multiple loads on the same fuse/breaker and can modify the load to
'test' what's attached. Remember that the failure may not be
catastrophic and just raises the current load above the trigger point.
Harder to diagnose than a catastrophic failure.
Linn
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034@lafn.org>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>>
>>I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
>>fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
>>expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
>>advise against using them.
>>It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
>>Walmart for fuses....?
>>
>>Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal
>>EAA Technical Counselor
>>
>>Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
>>>
>>>
>and
>
>
>>>my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
>>>and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
>>>flyers.
>>>
>>>
>>>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>>>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>>>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Ed Anderson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
> on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
> with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
> and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
> system
The fuse/CB issue is similar to the primer/no primer deal wherein there
will never be a consensus of opinion, at least for many years to come. I
will add that 'Lectric Bob's rational is predicated on the principle
that there is no place for a "critical system" in the electrical
architecture of a modern aircraft. It is a mistake to assume that Bob's
philosophy is limited to merely replacing circuit breakers with fuses.
In order to fully appreciate Bob's system, it is essential to
recalibrate our thinking to the idea that *all* electrical systems are
relegated to "non-critical" status. This means that if a failure of any
type occurs, there are backups that allow the flight to have a happy
conclusion, and trouble shooting is conducted on the ground instead of
in the air.
Yes, this flies in the face of decades of accumulated experience with
certificated and military aircraft, and is difficult to accept by many
pilots. It is interesting to note that the newest aircraft (Cirrus, and
even the new glass-panel Cessnas) are adopting dual bus architectures
similar to what Bob advocates.
Traditional electrical schemes have kept most of us in the air for a
long time, but that doesn't mean they can't be improved with new thinking.
The addition of backups in a complex aircraft means more complexity in
the wiring architecture; however, it also means we have removed the
possibility of an "electrical failure" and the attendant horror stories
we read in the "Never Again" articles.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, guess what kind of wiring system..........)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
My Bellanca came from the factory without any CBs, just old fashioned Glass
fuses. I have had one fail in the last 15 years and I think it was an
original from 1948. The 1948 Cessna 170 used only fuses from the factory.
As Bob says, if a fuse blows, check and fix on the ground.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
> >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
> >using Bob's system.
> >
> And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying
> aircraft that do not use the Bob K method
> of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems
> whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches
> has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown
> in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style
> electrical systems and have not been a problem.
>
> Jerry
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm@yahoo.com>
Having read the post by Mark Phipps and the associated pile-ons from other
members of the RV list and then Steves reply I just have to add my two
cents to this. A year and a half ago I ground looped my RV6 when landing on
a snow-lined runway. The resulting loop turned the plane into a snow bank
and in the process damaged my right wing outboard leading edge skin, the
wingtip, and various internal ribs.
I contacted Steve and without charge of any kind he gave me a spare wingtip,
some ribs and other parts I needed to make the repair. This was typical of
Steve. He is very giving in sharing the resources he has to help other
builders. While I was building my RV, he was very generous in loaning tools
and other parts I happen to need.
Circumstances occur in peoples lives. Often we are not able to handle all
situations in a timely manner. This happened to me several years ago dealing
with a RV builder out west who owed me money for a service I did for him. He
was tardy in paying and I got upset over it. I chose to handle it off line
and eventually I was paid and came to understand that several circumstances
in this persons life all converged at the same time. Its happened to all
of us. S___ happens.
There will be listers who will have missed Steves reply and may forever
think of him in unkind terms. This is unfortunate.
Fran Malczynski
RV-6 N594EF
Olcott, NY
ebbfmm@yahoo.com
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi:
Some one answered my question, about installing the flush latch on cowling
door; and has all the pictures for the installation, by mistake when trying
to print them I ereased them ... Please could you send message again with
your fotos? sorry I do not remember your name..
Thanks
Bert
rv6a
Do Not archive
Message 19
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avionics-list@matronics.com
| Subject: | Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have
decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight
etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult
to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly -
volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: How Much Wire - end to end |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan@hotmail.com>
Kathleen,
Take a look at the article I wrote about a methodology for wiring your
bird, in the Articles section of vansaircraft.net.
http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/wiring/wiring.htm
Then look at the Excel sheet I posted on the rv-7 groups files
section.
(wiringbooksample.xls)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/files/
This should give a good starting point.
You have reached a point in the project where you are writing your own
manual . it takes some planning, and if you plan
Right, it will be easier.
Good luck!
Amit.
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Oil door question |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 7/14/04 7:38:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bertrv6@highstream.net writes:
<< use a shim to lower hinge at the top >>
Bert: Yes. Sorry, no pictures, but if you shim it, it will work.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
My RV6a, Valentine, was my first built. I heard there was a controversy
about the electrical system. I began to do research.
First, I looked to machines I very am familiar with, cars and
computers. They use fuses.
Second, I looked at catalogs to do something I have much experience with,
value analysis. Fuses give most for least.
Third, I looked to fellow builders, especially those who sounded
knowledgeable. Most used fuses.
Finally, I listened to Bob Nuckolls and bought his book. He knows more
about this stuff than any of us ever will.
FUSES IT IS! Your analysis may vary.
Hal
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: How Much Wire - end to end |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Kathleen: You will surely get some better answers, but having just finished
wiring my 6, what I would do if I was starting over is first make a list of
every circuit I think I will need, showing the starting and end points (don't
forget the return circuits to your single point ground for com and intercom
circuits, and others if you are going to be anal about ground loops as I was).
Second, make your best guess (measure) of the length of each wire run and the
wire size needed for each of the circuits on your list. Third, add up all the
lengths of each size wire on you list. Finally, double the number of feet of
each size wire you came up with in step three and add another 20 percent
contingency (for coax, especially if you use the pricey RG-400, just add maybe
30
percent to your best guess estimate). With this method you will probably still
come up short of some sizes and have extra of others, but it's a place to
start. Good luck and,
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Shirly, for a starting point why don't you order Van's wiring diagrams that
are made up for his wiring package. They are available separately and will
answer a lot of your questions. You should also consider buying a copy of Bob
Nuckell's book, The Aeroelectric Connection. His website is
www.aeroelectric.com, e-mail: nuckells@aeroelectric.com or 316-685-8617.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 25
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| Subject: | Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be
attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 26
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| Subject: | Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
I can answer the, "Why fuses in automobiles?" question for you. (1) The
average driver would pay no attention to "why" breakers are popping off. (2)
Replacing all boxed fuses in an average auto would cost (cost of
manufacture) nearly $30 and would require different wiring and containment
considerations that would have to be engineered and manufactured.
If you are manufacturing several million cars a year, $30+ per unit is small
percentage, but ultimately, real money. The bean-counters at automotive
corporations have the final say. Breakers would add nothing in terms of
sales advantage, just cost that would actually reduce market advantage.
That folks, straight from the GM marketing masters.
The way I see it, there is no correlation between the aircraft decision and
the automobile decision. But, that's not what is important. What's
important is the extent to which one method adds to aircraft safety
reliability.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
--> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's
method of doing electrical things in your plane.
Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called
Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the
electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not
money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building
your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to
possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than
circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his
book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics
aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the
RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob
Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers
hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions
already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers
and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not
seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the
Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they
understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with
it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical
methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this --
if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why
Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses
fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit
breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many
fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence?
Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an
electrical stand point anyway.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
<kempthornes@earthlink.net>
>
> At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by:
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
> >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
> >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> flyers.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. <g>
Bob
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Go to www.aircraftextras.com they have them as well as the tip-up slider mod.
-----Original Message-----
From: HCRV6@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be
attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Cowling door |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
> Hi:
>
> Some one answered my question, about installing the flush latch on
cowling
> door; and has all the pictures for the installation, by mistake when
trying
> to print them I ereased them ... Please could you send message again with
> your fotos? sorry I do not remember your name..
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Bert
=================================
Is this what you're looking for via Andy Karmy?
Bob
QUOTE....
Here are some pictures of how I did it.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/Cowl/index.htm
- Andy Karmy
andy@karmy.com
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com
In a message dated 7/15/04 1:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HCRV6@aol.com
writes:
> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could
> be
> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
>
>
Harry,
It is Aircraft Extras.
Here is web site. http://www.aircraftextras.com/
I have them and like them. Not flying yet be they have been great for the
many times I have been in and out of the cabin while finishing.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob 1 <rv3a@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. <g>
Bob
Message 32
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| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I had
the exact answer!
It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then add
30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and expect to
buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great! I got it!
I'll never know how much I need until I get there!
Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that it's
OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I may have
to do a little planning :-(
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
Do not archive
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit
working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with
mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under
the
instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations
only, can't hear it in flight.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hours and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly
- volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
I think this is what you are thinking about.
Terry
http://www.aircraftextras.com/Handles1.htm
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be
attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: wgill10@comcast.net
Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1"
>
> > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
> have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
> operation (pre-flight etc).
> >
> > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
> difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
> >
> > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
> properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
> or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <RV3A@COMCAST.NET>
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. <G>
Bob
<
BR>
om/digest/rv-list
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question |
rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
TAS from IAS and altitude and temp only works if your airspeed indicator is
correct...
I just posted some flight test cards I made up for myself for flying GPS
speed runs... You can put the numbers into the more sophisticated TAS
algorithm if you want, but if you just add them up and divide by three you
will be within a mile an hour or knot...
http://www.rv8a.com/downloads/index.htm
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "aviatrr76" <Aviatrr@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, linn walters <lwalters2@c...>
wrote:
> Nope, GPS speed is ground speed. The averaging would only attempt
to
> convert groundspeed to true airspeed. There is a formula for
converting
> groundspeed over three legs to true airspeed. Then there's
indicated
> airspeed to throw into the mix. Sigh, flying used to be so simple!
The original question was in response to.....
> >> He stated 190mph on the GPS...so I assume he's referring to
TAS,
> >>
> >>
> >not
> >
> >
> >> IAS.
My comment about averaging upwind/downwind legs meant that if you
fly a 3 or more leg pattern(I prefer 4), with equivalent angles
between the headings, then average the numbers....you will have a
rough TAS. Of course, the other thing to do would be take your IAS
and convert it to TAS based on altitude and temperature.
Mike
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Message 37
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| Subject: | Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
Harry,
Try here:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/Handles1.htm
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be
attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
Another possibility is that the aileron is contacting the skin or the wing tip
at the outboard point. My aileron was contacting the fiberglass where it is under
the top outboard wing skin. I filed the fiberglass so that the aileron cleared
and the resistance went away.
Jim Cone
3-peat Offender
RV-7A flying very soon
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
> >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
> >using Bob's system.
> >
> And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying
> aircraft that do not use the Bob K method
> of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems
> whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches
> has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown
> in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style
> electrical systems and have not been a problem.
>
> Jerry
(((((((((())))))))
Jerry I have learned a lot from you and the RV-List over many months of
being here. Thanks for that.
Jerry, with all due respect sir, I meant to be comparing Bob K's method with
Van's method when I said Bob K's was a safer method. I agree there are many
other good systems and I am sure some safer ones. I don't think the most
popular certified plane, the Cessna, is safer in its electronics than Bob
K's system. Anyhoo, The system under consideration that I was comparing to
was the Vans system/method.
So, I guess you fully understand the Bob K reasoning for using fuses rather
than CB? And although you have never had to reset a CB in 15 years you
still feel there is the need to have an instantly resetable controlling
device rather than a non-instantly resetable controlling device? That does
not make sense to me and neither does it to Bob K. Debugging an electrical
problem is my last concern while I am flying. I do believe in putting out
an electrical fire by opening the circuit however. My fuse will do that!
Last time I looked, CBs cost a lot more than busses and fuses and CBs weight
more. And CBs use more panel space.
I am glad your system works for you. Does your system have an alternate
power source like the Bob K system in what he calls the e-buss? If so, good
for you. But if you never have a problem, it is NOT needed. I agree.
And I guess you have over voltage and low voltage warnings. Are you using
ring terminals or the push on type that Bob K recommends for reasons? If
you use the push on type, good for you. Are you stacking electrical needs
of several devices and work loads onto one CB or do you have a dedicated
circuit for each device as you do with fuses?
And if your alternator goes out, I plan to be able to continue my original
flight plan and land at my original planned destination rather than start
sweating to find a close place to land. That is another Bob K system
feature by the way.
I still think the Bob K method/or philosophy is better than most planes
flying today. It is a lot more than CB vs. Fuses.
We are all interested in building better planes. Thanks for your response.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen@earthlink.net>
Cash,
Thanks for the info - I have a West Marine nearby - shoulda thought of that myself.....
Sometimes an extra brain helps,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: JusCash@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit
working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with
mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under
the
instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations
only, can't hear it in flight.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hours and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen@earthlink.net writes:
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly
- volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
I would like to share my fuse experience with the list. My electrical system
is per Electric Bob. My system has just one circuit breaker for the
alternator. Returning from a trip I landed for gas at Barstow, Ca. The starter
would
not work. Checked the fuse, sure enough it was blown. I must have went to
the start position during the Mag check at the previous fuel stop. Looked in
my travel tool bag for a spare there were no fuses. I then remembered taking
them out of the bag to inventory them. Must have gotten distracted and forgot
to put them back. I thought to myself, where in the world am I going to find
a fuse in the middle of the desert? One of the locals had a box of fuses in
the glove compartment of his truck. He really got me when he said "Out here in
the desert 7.5 amp airplane fuses cost $20.00 apiece." I didn't hesitate as
I reached into my pocket for a Twenty. This turned out to be the big joke of
the day at the Barstow airport. He gave the fuse and a spare.
Fuses work for me, this was the first to blow. Just be sure to carry spares.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hrs and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 3:27:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sears@searnet.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They
cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion,
take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long
time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own
airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to
pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed
and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by
a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too
small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of
aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my
own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and
will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and
even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere.
Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used
that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart.
It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought
there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as
wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers.
I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not
have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them,
either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but,
I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow
blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
_-
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Most automobile stereo speakers are 4 ohm. There are
plenty of cheap 1-way's out there.
--- Bob 1 <rv3a@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1"
> <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
> > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun
> intended) information - I
> have decided that a small cabin speaker would be
> helpful for ground
> operation (pre-flight etc).
> >
> > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm
> speaker which seem to be
> difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available
> in abundance.....
> >
> > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or
> will it not work
> properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
> or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. <g>
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Having flown a test run to check out the effect of each magneto on my gradually-rising
EGT readings, I am ready to post some follow-up data:
First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm & 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for
each cylinder, to see who leaned first and what the max temps were. Recall
that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl #3 in previous tests, but that the
idiot light alarm was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the range
of 1540 F.
The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the
first to peak as well as posting the highest peak.
I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the same power setting (75%) and
took readings running on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here are the
results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three conditions:
Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398
Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528
Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457
From thses data, I can conclude:
1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not reproducible today.
2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of cylinders 2 the left mag alone
raises the temp of #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl #1.
I assume this has some clever connection with which mag is firing the top or bottom
plugs on these cylinders.
3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than for the left, across all cylinders,
and may correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have always seen
on run-up mag checks(consistently drops 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50
rpm on the L)
I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to about 1560 F and just keep
an eye on things for now. I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might
have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to OSH, I can check the effect
of 100LL as well.
Comments welcome!
-Bill B
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 7/15/04 8:45:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes:
> but I have - on more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment
>>>>>>>>>>
I would respectfully suggest that if the circuit you mention were properly
designed, the overload would never have occured. This is the elegant simplicity
of the Bob N (as in Nuckolls!) system: complete understanding and correct
implementation of your very important electrical system....
Mark- all-electric RV driver and devout Nuckollhead 8-)
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: EGT follow-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sabswbc@aol.com
The rise in egt temperature is caused by unburned gases passing into the
exhaust system. With both mags on, the fuel is burned in the cyc where it
belongs. This loss of power due to incomplete combustion is also why the rpm drops.
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: EGT follow-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
If you had a reasonable rise on either mag (you did)
from both, then your mags/plugs/etc. are probably ok.
To really test your ignition system, repeat the test
Lean of Peak.
Variations in batches of auto gas can certainly have
an effect on EGT. My bet is that is most likely the
case.
Again, EGT is best used as a relative measurement, not
an absolute measurement. Cylinder head temperatures
are really more important in an absolute sense.
Finally, engine RPM will have an effect on the max egt
attainable at a given manifold pressure. Try running
the test at 2700 RPM's and see how much hotter they
get!
Skylor
RV-8 QB Under Construction
N808SJ Reserved
--- SportAV8R@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> Having flown a test run to check out the effect of
> each magneto on my gradually-rising EGT readings, I
> am ready to post some follow-up data:
>
> First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm &
> 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for each cylinder, to
> see who leaned first and what the max temps were.
> Recall that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl
> #3 in previous tests, but that the idiot light alarm
> was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the
> range of 1540 F.
>
> The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509
> 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the first to peak as
> well as posting the highest peak.
>
> I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the
> same power setting (75%) and took readings running
> on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here
> are the results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three
> conditions:
>
> Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398
>
> Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528
>
> Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457
>
> From thses data, I can conclude:
> 1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not
> reproducible today.
> 2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of
> cylinders 2 the left mag alone raises the temp of
> #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl
> #1. I assume this has some clever connection with
> which mag is firing the top or bottom plugs on these
> cylinders.
> 3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than
> for the left, across all cylinders, and may
> correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have
> always seen on run-up mag checks(consistently drops
> 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50 rpm on the
> L)
>
> I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to
> about 1560 F and just keep an eye on things for now.
> I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might
> have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to
> OSH, I can check the effect of 100LL as well.
>
> Comments welcome!
>
> -Bill B
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey@ix.netcom.com>
Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I
see they require a slot reservation be made.
http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation
system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve
72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is
IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this
need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from
Flow control? So many questions.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
RV6A
Message 48
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Berthet, Andre G" <andre.g.berthet@intel.com>
My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
(~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
Thanks
Andre
Pleasanton, CA
RV-6, N29TA
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: Power settings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
Andre,
Ask Lycoming for the equivalent of Curve Sheet 13358 (O-360) for your engine.
This curve sheet tell you all that you were afraid to ask!
Richard Reynolds, RV-6A
"Berthet, Andre G" wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Berthet, Andre G" <andre.g.berthet@intel.com>
>
> My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
> (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
>
> Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
> relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andre
>
> Pleasanton, CA
>
> RV-6, N29TA
>
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
>
> Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system
circuit
> on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on
more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a
temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
> with a fuse.
Ed, I agree that can't be done with a fuse but don't agree that is
important. Bob K advocates using fuses and sizing them in the circuit so
that the fuse is large enough to not give bogus failures WHILE protecting
the wire from damage.
>I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
> and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any
critical
> system
I agree with the first part ED, but the critical systems is where
use of the Bob K philosophies are most important. Bob K means more than
fuses vs. CBs. What part(s) of the system do you consider critical?
>
> FWIW
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Not knowing is not a big
problem, knowing the wrong thing can be.
Do not archive. If anyone has an interest in learning more about Bob
Knuckolls, matronics.com has a list service called aeroelectric-list similar
to the rv-list. Great archives there ready for reference.
Message 51
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| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Sorry in advance for the plug....but....
when you start "buying" all that wire, I sell it cheaper than anyone else, with
discounts for the spools! FYI, my business started because I was buying large
spools of wire for my RV6 projects, first 500 ft spools, then more, now I'm
buying in 10,000' spools - that's why I can sell it cheaper!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive (I'm not that tacky).
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
>
>Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I had
>the exact answer!
>
>It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then add
>30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and expect to
>buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great! I got it!
>I'll never know how much I need until I get there!
>
>Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that it's
>OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I may have
>to do a little planning :-(
>
>Kathleen Evans
>Folsom, CA
>www.rv7.us
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude
or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
Message 53
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| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
>
> This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at
> the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from
> Ripon to Osh?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
Dave, your RV will overheat at the slow 90 knot speed!!!!!!! Com'on,
throttle back and fly the 135 knot, higher altitude, inbound speed:>)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 496 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 54
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|
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
I had a similar problem and found my left aileron outer bearing frozen.
There is so much leverage when using the stick you'll never notice it from
inside. Its a fairly common problem with old bearings. Vans has switched
to a different type.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel...
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Let me know what you find, mine does the same thing. 150 hours now, flies
> great.
>
>
> At 10:49 AM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only
> > thing, is
> > that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some
resistance at
> >the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the
stick
> >moves easily..
> >
> > I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is
> > absolutely
> >not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one
finger....
> >
> > Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bert
> >
> >
> >rv6a
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 55
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them. They
work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure out
how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles,
aluminum of course.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <HCRV6@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could
be
> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does
anyone
> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, final assembly
>
>
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter <jammeter@comcast.net>
I don't understand the problem...
With my RV-6, I'd simply use the left and right sides of the
cockpit. Push down and lift myself out of the cockpit.
John
On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:52:28 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
>I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them. They
>work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure out
>how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles,
>aluminum of course.
>
>Jeff
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <HCRV6@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>>
>> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could
>be
>> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does
>anyone
>> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
>>
>> Do not archive
>>
>> Harry Crosby
>> Pleasanton, California
>> RV-6, final assembly
>>
>>
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a Cessna Mixmaster.
Dave Ford <dford@michweb.net> wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford"
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude
or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
tion
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 58
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Once you get used to using the handles, you'll never go back. I also never
stand on my seats.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Ammeter" <jammeter@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
> --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter <jammeter@comcast.net>
>
> I don't understand the problem...
>
> With my RV-6, I'd simply use the left and right sides of the
> cockpit. Push down and lift myself out of the cockpit.
>
> John
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:52:28 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling"
<shempdowling@earthlink.net>
> >
> >I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them.
They
> >work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure
out
> >how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles,
> >aluminum of course.
> >
> >Jeff
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <HCRV6@aol.com>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
> >
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
> >>
> >> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that
could
> >be
> >> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does
> >anyone
> >> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
> >>
> >> Do not archive
> >>
> >> Harry Crosby
> >> Pleasanton, California
> >> RV-6, final assembly
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Message 59
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" <don_mei@hotmail.com>
Yes, I was the first one to jump ugly while only having heard one side of
the story. I get a bit touchy about the lack of honor and civility in
society. My friends in the flying/building community are an oasis in a
social desert. So anyway, I was wrong, but after hearing the other side of
the story, I don't feel any differently.
6 weeks for a family emergency, and no phone call, no email, no nothing. I
burried a relative 500 miles away and sold her house in 2 weeks. (btw, the
RV transformed a 10 hr drive into a 3 hr flight)
Either way, if the agreement was that paypal was acceptable, then the
payment could have been made from any internet connected PC. Are we also
ignoring the seller's unreturned correspondence?? Did the buyer not
communicate with his family, office, anyone durring those 5 weeks. Comeon.
Maybe the buyer's intent was not to rip anyone off.
Lets give him the benefit of the doubt.
Then, at the very least it shows a calous disregard for the civility and
common (uncommon) courtesy that people in the RV community show towards each
other. A simple "I've had a family emergency and can't get a check out for
5 weeks" would have probably worked. I'm wondering if he forgot to pay his
mortgage during this time? I don't know about you all, but when I owe
someone money, I think about it CONSTANTLY. Its a thorn in my side until I
get a check out.
Last I'm saying on this.
Best regards,
Don Mei
p.s. I did not advocate damaging the plane. If the rudder was missing, the
buyer would have most assuredly noticed in his pre-flight. ;-) (last I
checked the 1st ammendment was still in effect)
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months
FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
Message 60
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
I wouldn't trade my RV for anything, but I do know 2 builders who have
built Mustang II's from plans. They have bought virtually nothing for
the airframe. These sound like good planes, but the RV's seem to have
more enthusiastic owners.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term
slow-build)
Do not archive
(Snip)
From: "Tedi" <f.t@wp.pl>
Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200
(\214rodkowoeuropejs...
> Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by
Van's?
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
Thanks to everyone who pointed me to WWW.aircraftextras.com. This list is
GREAT if you can resist (and ignore) the "primer war" syndrome.
Do not archive.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
Message 62
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
j1j2h3@juno.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
>
>I wouldn't trade my RV for anything, but I do know 2 builders who have
>built Mustang II's from plans. They have bought virtually nothing for
>the airframe. These sound like good planes, but the RV's seem to have
>more enthusiastic owners.
>
>Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term
>slow-build)
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>(Snip)
>
>From: "Tedi" <f.t@wp.pl>
>Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200
>(\214rodkowoeuropejs...
>
> > Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by
>Van's?
>
>
I believe you would have a easier time building a RV-6 using the old
plans, the reason is that they had more dimensions and full size
drawing included. My limited experience with the new plans is that a lot
of the dimensions are missing because of the pre punch and
also because many of the parts are already cut to size. My experience
with the new style drawings is limited to theRV-7 vertical stab and rudder
I built for my RV-6. At the Independence, Oregon airport is an RV-6
built only from plans.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 63
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| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Flown to Oshkosh 5 out of the last 6 years at the 1,800 90 Knot speed. Did
not go to AirVenture the one year. 4 of the 5 times it was as a flight of
RVs. NO SIDE BY SIDE. So the flight landed close together in trail. Watch
out for that wake turbulance.
My SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is to do a practice 90 KIAS for about
5 or 10 minutes whiile I am still over one hour out of Oshkosh.
If your airplane can fly 90 KIAS, they EXPECT you to fly the 90 KIAS
pattern. If you cannot fly your RV at 90 KIAS under control in line behind
other aircraft, you have no business flying it into AirVenture.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" <dford@michweb.net>
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower,
lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
MSN Life Events gives you the tips and tools to handle the turning points in
your life. http://lifeevents.msn.com
Message 64
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|
| Subject: | Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut@worldnet.att.net>
If anyone has some Klixon 7277-2 CB's for sale, I'm looking for several.
Contact off list for a list of what I need.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
Message 65
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|
| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
So now Stein, you get a double plug! Someone else had already recommended
your website and, so far, it looks like you really do have the best prices.
Let's see, how much do you owe me for this public response? <g>
No, do not archive.
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Sorry in advance for the plug....but....
when you start "buying" all that wire, I sell it cheaper than anyone else,
with discounts for the spools! FYI, my business started because I was
buying large spools of wire for my RV6 projects, first 500 ft spools, then
more, now I'm buying in 10,000' spools - that's why I can sell it cheaper!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
Do Not Archive (I'm not that tacky).
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
>
>Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I
>had the exact answer!
>
>It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then
>add 30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and
>expect to buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great!
I got it!
>I'll never know how much I need until I get there!
>
>Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that
>it's OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I
>may have to do a little planning :-(
>
>Kathleen Evans
>Folsom, CA
>www.rv7.us
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 66
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|
| Subject: | Re: IFR to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
I flew IFR to Oshkosh last year and got the reservation just as soon as the system
would let me do it. The previous year I tried to get one at the last minute
since the weather went IFR on the way up. Could not get one. Ended up going
IFR into Madison and when I broke out on final I found it was good enough to
go VFR into Fond du Lac so I cancelled and diverted.
If it is actual VFR they say they will cancel your IFR when you get close and make
you sequence in with the VFR traffic. My experience was they vectored me
onto a long final approach, I got in behind a plane and landed on the first dot.
Easy and it was a good experience.
Jeff
lonestarsquadron.com
Ross Mickey <rmickey@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey"
Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I
see they require a slot reservation be made.
http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation
system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve
72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is
IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this
need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from
Flow control? So many questions.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
RV6A
---------------------------------
Message 67
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|
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
Lower.
At 08:20 PM 7/15/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
>
>I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a
>Cessna Mixmaster.
>
>Dave Ford <dford@michweb.net> wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave
>Ford"
>
>This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower,
>lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
>
>tion
>
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen
>RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
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