---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 07/15/04: 67 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:16 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Bob 1) 2. 12:27 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Bob 1) 3. 03:26 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Jim Sears) 4. 04:19 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming) 5. 04:35 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Jerry Springer) 6. 04:38 AM - Re: Re: don't trust this RV 6 guy (Rick Galati) 7. 04:42 AM - Re: [rv_list] Initial electrical set up (Wayne R. Couture) 8. 05:31 AM - RV Test Flight Pilots (don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister)) 9. 06:21 AM - Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil (Scott Bilinski) 10. 06:21 AM - Re: RV Test Flight Pilots (Gary Zilik) 11. 06:37 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (DAVID REEL) 12. 06:44 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Ed Anderson) 13. 07:01 AM - Re: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 14. 07:15 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (linn walters) 15. 07:25 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Sam Buchanan) 16. 07:25 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (cgalley) 17. 07:57 AM - Steve Dinieri (Francis Malczynski) 18. 08:01 AM - Cowling door (bertrv6@highstream.net) 19. 08:58 AM - Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen) 20. 09:14 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Amit Dagan) 21. 09:33 AM - Re: Oil door question (HCRV6@aol.com) 22. 09:49 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Hal / Carol Kempthorne) 23. 09:54 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (HCRV6@aol.com) 24. 10:30 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (HCRV6@aol.com) 25. 10:43 AM - Bolt on roll bar handles? (HCRV6@aol.com) 26. 10:49 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Kathleen (rv7)) 27. 10:55 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Bob 1) 28. 10:59 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Ralph E. Capen) 29. 11:01 AM - Re: Cowling door (Bob 1) 30. 11:03 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (DWENSING@aol.com) 31. 11:06 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen) 32. 11:09 AM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Kathleen (rv7)) 33. 11:09 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (JusCash@aol.com) 34. 11:13 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Terry Watson) 35. 11:16 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (wgill10@comcast.net) 36. 11:17 AM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question (Bill VonDane) 37. 11:23 AM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Kathleen (rv7)) 38. 11:32 AM - Re: Ailerons Tavel... (Jim & Bev Cone) 39. 11:40 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming) 40. 11:43 AM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Ralph E. Capen) 41. 11:46 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (JusCash@aol.com) 42. 12:01 PM - Re: Cabin speaker specs (Skylor Piper) 43. 01:17 PM - EGT follow-up (SportAV8R@aol.com) 44. 01:18 PM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 45. 01:33 PM - Re: EGT follow-up (Sabswbc@aol.com) 46. 01:47 PM - Re: EGT follow-up (Skylor Piper) 47. 03:15 PM - IFR to Oshkosh (Ross Mickey) 48. 03:53 PM - Power settings (Berthet, Andre G) 49. 05:20 PM - Re: Power settings (Richard V. Reynolds) 50. 05:52 PM - Re: Initial electrical set up (LarryRobertHelming) 51. 06:12 PM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Stein Bruch) 52. 07:24 PM - flying to Oshkosh (Dave Ford) 53. 07:38 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Alex Peterson) 54. 07:39 PM - Re: Ailerons Tavel... (Jeff Dowling) 55. 07:52 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Jeff Dowling) 56. 08:00 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (John Ammeter) 57. 08:20 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Scott Vanartsdalen) 58. 08:30 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (Jeff Dowling) 59. 08:54 PM - Watch out! (Donald Mei) 60. 09:01 PM - Fw: plans (j1j2h3@juno.com) 61. 09:09 PM - Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? (HCRV6@aol.com) 62. 09:22 PM - Re: Fw: plans (Jerry Springer) 63. 09:35 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (RV6 Flyer) 64. 09:52 PM - Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers (Albert Gardner) 65. 10:18 PM - Re: How Much Wire - end to end (Kathleen (rv7)) 66. 10:18 PM - Re: IFR to Oshkosh (Jeff Bertsch) 67. 10:30 PM - Re: flying to Oshkosh (Hal / Carol Kempthorne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:16:43 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" > > I've followed this thread from the first posting, and all along couldn't > help think that I was reading only one half of the story. Thanks, Steve, > for presenting the other half and filling in the story. > > I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the > (alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the > "let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies" > bandwagon. > > Just my $0.02. > DO NOT ARCHIVE ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I initially was thinking along your lines..... and remained SAFELY SILENT in the thick of things. Now with the issue resolved, it's a piece of cake to pile on... playing 'Monday Morning Quarterback' as well as preacher. Bob - Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:29 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> > >I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the > >(alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the > >"let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies" > >bandwagon. > > > > > > > I hardly call waiting 6 weeks impatient. I could be wrong but I don't > believe the original poster was aware of any family emergencies. If a > girl from Siberia can send me 3 emails a week trying to scam me out of > some money, someone living in the US with the means to build an RV can > respond to email inquires about money due in less than 6 weeks. =============================== Right on, Chris. I don't know that this issue would have been resolved without pressure from the group. Kudos to all that were proactive, IMO. Call me cynical, but until the money is in hands of the seller, I'm still holding my breath a little. Bob - born in the dark, but not last night. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:48 AM PST US From: Jim Sears Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes > fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are > expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not > advise against using them. Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion, take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A. > It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to > Walmart for fuses....? > I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere. Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart. It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers. I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them, either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but, I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 EAA Technical Counselor EAA Flight Advisor ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:40 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's method of doing electrical things in your plane. Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this -- if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence? Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an electrical stand point anyway. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne > > At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: > > > >Hi everybody, > > > >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no > >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans > >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc . > > Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses and > my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs > and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck > flyers. > > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:35:40 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer LarryRobertHelming wrote: >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not >using Bob's system. > And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying aircraft that do not use the Bob K method of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style electrical systems and have not been a problem. Jerry ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:16 AM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati Well, halt the bandwagon and ready the rope! I rented a house for 7 years and not once did the landlord have to dun me for late rent. During that seven years as a tenant, I too had family emergencies. Later in life, when I chose to be a landlord for a time, almost everybody I rented an apartment to had some story, some excuse for eventually being late with the rent. Sure, I screened people and demanded references. My tenants included the son of the city attorney, a hotel manager, even an IRS agent. The stories they could tell! That was then and this is now. I've done business with people who are on this list. And the fact is, in most cases, you either have to send goods or send payment as an article of faith. But RV'ers are for the most part, a special breed. Faith comes easier. But as a buyer or as a seller, the timely receipt of the product or the payment is also an article of faith. "Family emergencies" need not apply............or linger on interminably week after week. So you actually bought that story when Johnny Fairplay tearfully told the tribe his grandmother died? Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the (alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the "let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies" bandwagon. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:16 AM PST US From: "Wayne R. Couture" Subject: Re: [rv_list] RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne R. Couture" Mount your CB's on one inch centers in the panel and then mount the buss bar to the CB's. Drill one inch holes in the buss bar the size of the screws in the CB's. This also helps hold the CB's from turning. I used Bob's circuits but opted for CB's instead of fuses. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: [rv_list] RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Hi everybody, > > I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc . > > I want to know how does one mount the bus bar and where . Do you bolt it to the back of the instrument panel and then the CB's to that? Where is the best place for the starter and battery relays and contactors to be located? > > Any pictures or advice will help? > > Shirley Harding RV6 QB > > Perth > WA > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:30 AM PST US From: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister) Subject: RV-List: RV Test Flight Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister) Any flight test pilot going to the Alamosa, Colorado Air Show/Fly-In this week end ? First 20 experimentals that arrive before 9:30 AM Saturday July 17th get 10 gals. fuel free!! I need to discuss flight testing of my finished/painted RV-6A - contact me off list. don522@webtv.net or phone. do not archive Don McCallister, Airport Mgr. Astronaut Kent Rominger Airport 8V1 Del Norte, Colorado 719 657-0846 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:09 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski cooler Subject: Re: RV-List: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski cooler Had a 7 row Niagara switched to a 10 row AERO-Classics. I saw a good 15 degree drop. I also increased the air flow from 3" to 3.5 inch ducting. The reason I did this is for 2 reasons. First, to keep the oil in the 180 degree range I had to fly low RPM power settings (2300 RPM) with the 7 row. Second in slow flight the temps would come up, so when flying into OSH I dont want to worry about oil temps. The 100 kts arrival speed into OSH on a 90 plus degree day would have caused my oil temp to go up to about 220 maybe even higher. Now with the 10 row cooler on a 95 degree day OAT at altitude and 100 kts I saw 195 steady on the oil temp. . At 06:17 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why? > >lucky > >In a message dated 7/14/2004 5:43:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, >bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski >cooler > >Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is using >in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on the >bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched >from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me out >of the larger cooler. > > >At 05:08 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com > >Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the > >"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the > >job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's > >didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to > >replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I > >thinking of a different brand? > > > >There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this > >engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new > >oil coolers. > > > >I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit > >from somewhere else if one of these works)? > > > >thanks, > >lucky > > > > > > >Scott Bilinski >Eng dept 305 >Phone (858) 657-2536 >Pager (858) 502-5190 > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:09 AM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Test Flight Pilots --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik Bob, I wish I was coming but the wife and I are racing in the CPA's Denver-Jackpot Classic this weekend. There may be a couple of Denver based RVs going to Alamosa for the pancakes. Gary Don McCallister wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister) > > Any flight test pilot going to the Alamosa, > Colorado Air Show/Fly-In this week end ? > First 20 experimentals that arrive before 9:30 AM Saturday July 17th get > 10 gals. fuel free!! I need to discuss flight testing of my > finished/painted RV-6A - contact me off list. don522@webtv.net or > phone. > do not archive > Don McCallister, Airport Mgr. > Astronaut Kent Rominger Airport 8V1 > Del Norte, Colorado 719 657-0846 > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:19 AM PST US From: "DAVID REEL" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" I think you'll be missing out on a lot of the education fun of your project if you don't read the AeroElectric Connection document available from the website www.aeroelectric.com. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:56 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical system FWIW Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol > > I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes > fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are > expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not > advise against using them. > It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to > Walmart for fuses....? > > Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal > EAA Technical Counselor > > Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote: > > >Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses and > >my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs > >and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck > >flyers. > > > > > >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. > >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:04 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Tedi, There are many European Builders on Vans Web Links and perhaps one of them has more connections in your area. Welcome to the RV family! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tedi" Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tedi" > > > As a total newbee I am asking for help/info: > > Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's? > What is the estimated % of parts that man has to or should buy from producer > > > I live in Poland - so I am interrested in aviability of kits or some parts > in Europe. Is there someone from Czech Republic? > > Best regards > Tadeusz Forgacz > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:34 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Ed Anderson wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > >Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit >on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more >than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary >overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that >with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight >and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical >system > >FWIW > >Ed > >Ed Anderson >RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered >Matthews, NC > I'm not going to take sides, but if the fuse block is within reach, replacing a fuse from spares is just as easy. The bonus for ckt breakers is that you will run out of fuses sooner or later, but can keep resetting the ckt breaker over and over. This is a good thing if you have multiple loads on the same fuse/breaker and can modify the load to 'test' what's attached. Remember that the failure may not be catastrophic and just raises the current load above the trigger point. Harder to diagnose than a catastrophic failure. Linn >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dave Bristol" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol >> >>I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes >>fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are >>expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not >>advise against using them. >>It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to >>Walmart for fuses....? >> >>Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal >>EAA Technical Counselor >> >>Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote: >> >> >> >>>Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses >>> >>> >and > > >>>my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs >>>and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck >>>flyers. >>> >>> >>>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne >>>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. >>>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:47 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Ed Anderson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit > on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more > than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary > overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that > with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight > and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical > system The fuse/CB issue is similar to the primer/no primer deal wherein there will never be a consensus of opinion, at least for many years to come. I will add that 'Lectric Bob's rational is predicated on the principle that there is no place for a "critical system" in the electrical architecture of a modern aircraft. It is a mistake to assume that Bob's philosophy is limited to merely replacing circuit breakers with fuses. In order to fully appreciate Bob's system, it is essential to recalibrate our thinking to the idea that *all* electrical systems are relegated to "non-critical" status. This means that if a failure of any type occurs, there are backups that allow the flight to have a happy conclusion, and trouble shooting is conducted on the ground instead of in the air. Yes, this flies in the face of decades of accumulated experience with certificated and military aircraft, and is difficult to accept by many pilots. It is interesting to note that the newest aircraft (Cirrus, and even the new glass-panel Cessnas) are adopting dual bus architectures similar to what Bob advocates. Traditional electrical schemes have kept most of us in the air for a long time, but that doesn't mean they can't be improved with new thinking. The addition of backups in a complex aircraft means more complexity in the wiring architecture; however, it also means we have removed the possibility of an "electrical failure" and the attendant horror stories we read in the "Never Again" articles. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, guess what kind of wiring system..........) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:47 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" My Bellanca came from the factory without any CBs, just old fashioned Glass fuses. I have had one fail in the last 15 years and I think it was an original from 1948. The 1948 Cessna 170 used only fuses from the factory. As Bob says, if a fuse blows, check and fix on the ground. Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > LarryRobertHelming wrote: > > >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not > >using Bob's system. > > > And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying > aircraft that do not use the Bob K method > of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems > whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches > has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown > in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style > electrical systems and have not been a problem. > > Jerry > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:57:16 AM PST US From: "Francis Malczynski" Subject: RV-List: Steve Dinieri --> RV-List message posted by: "Francis Malczynski" Having read the post by Mark Phipps and the associated pile-ons from other members of the RV list and then Steves reply I just have to add my two cents to this. A year and a half ago I ground looped my RV6 when landing on a snow-lined runway. The resulting loop turned the plane into a snow bank and in the process damaged my right wing outboard leading edge skin, the wingtip, and various internal ribs. I contacted Steve and without charge of any kind he gave me a spare wingtip, some ribs and other parts I needed to make the repair. This was typical of Steve. He is very giving in sharing the resources he has to help other builders. While I was building my RV, he was very generous in loaning tools and other parts I happen to need. Circumstances occur in peoples lives. Often we are not able to handle all situations in a timely manner. This happened to me several years ago dealing with a RV builder out west who owed me money for a service I did for him. He was tardy in paying and I got upset over it. I chose to handle it off line and eventually I was paid and came to understand that several circumstances in this persons life all converged at the same time. Its happened to all of us. S___ happens. There will be listers who will have missed Steves reply and may forever think of him in unkind terms. This is unfortunate. Fran Malczynski RV-6 N594EF Olcott, NY ebbfmm@yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:59 AM PST US From: bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: RV-List: Cowling door --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi: Some one answered my question, about installing the flush latch on cowling door; and has all the pictures for the installation, by mistake when trying to print them I ereased them ... Please could you send message again with your fotos? sorry I do not remember your name.. Thanks Bert rv6a Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:13 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" avionics-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Folks, After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:56 AM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Re: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" Kathleen, Take a look at the article I wrote about a methodology for wiring your bird, in the Articles section of vansaircraft.net. http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/wiring/wiring.htm Then look at the Excel sheet I posted on the rv-7 groups files section. (wiringbooksample.xls) http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/files/ This should give a good starting point. You have reached a point in the project where you are writing your own manual . it takes some planning, and if you plan Right, it will be easier. Good luck! Amit. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:33 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil door question --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 7/14/04 7:38:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bertrv6@highstream.net writes: << use a shim to lower hinge at the top >> Bert: Yes. Sorry, no pictures, but if you shim it, it will work. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:43 AM PST US From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne My RV6a, Valentine, was my first built. I heard there was a controversy about the electrical system. I began to do research. First, I looked to machines I very am familiar with, cars and computers. They use fuses. Second, I looked at catalogs to do something I have much experience with, value analysis. Fuses give most for least. Third, I looked to fellow builders, especially those who sounded knowledgeable. Most used fuses. Finally, I listened to Bob Nuckolls and bought his book. He knows more about this stuff than any of us ever will. FUSES IT IS! Your analysis may vary. Hal ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:54:35 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Kathleen: You will surely get some better answers, but having just finished wiring my 6, what I would do if I was starting over is first make a list of every circuit I think I will need, showing the starting and end points (don't forget the return circuits to your single point ground for com and intercom circuits, and others if you are going to be anal about ground loops as I was). Second, make your best guess (measure) of the length of each wire run and the wire size needed for each of the circuits on your list. Third, add up all the lengths of each size wire on you list. Finally, double the number of feet of each size wire you came up with in step three and add another 20 percent contingency (for coax, especially if you use the pricey RG-400, just add maybe 30 percent to your best guess estimate). With this method you will probably still come up short of some sizes and have extra of others, but it's a place to start. Good luck and, Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:09 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Shirly, for a starting point why don't you order Van's wiring diagrams that are made up for his wiring package. They are available separately and will answer a lot of your questions. You should also consider buying a copy of Bob Nuckell's book, The Aeroelectric Connection. His website is www.aeroelectric.com, e-mail: nuckells@aeroelectric.com or 316-685-8617. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:09 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:24 AM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" I can answer the, "Why fuses in automobiles?" question for you. (1) The average driver would pay no attention to "why" breakers are popping off. (2) Replacing all boxed fuses in an average auto would cost (cost of manufacture) nearly $30 and would require different wiring and containment considerations that would have to be engineered and manufactured. If you are manufacturing several million cars a year, $30+ per unit is small percentage, but ultimately, real money. The bean-counters at automotive corporations have the final say. Breakers would add nothing in terms of sales advantage, just cost that would actually reduce market advantage. That folks, straight from the GM marketing masters. The way I see it, there is no correlation between the aircraft decision and the automobile decision. But, that's not what is important. What's important is the extent to which one method adds to aircraft safety reliability. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" --> I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's method of doing electrical things in your plane. Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this -- if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence? Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an electrical stand point anyway. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne > > At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: > > > >Hi everybody, > > > >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no > >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans > >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc . > > Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses and > my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs > and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck > flyers. > > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:06 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). > > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... > > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely.... or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. Bob ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:13 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Go to www.aircraftextras.com they have them as well as the tip-up slider mod. -----Original Message----- From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:30 AM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowling door --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > Hi: > > Some one answered my question, about installing the flush latch on cowling > door; and has all the pictures for the installation, by mistake when trying > to print them I ereased them ... Please could you send message again with > your fotos? sorry I do not remember your name.. > > > Thanks > > Bert ================================= Is this what you're looking for via Andy Karmy? Bob QUOTE.... Here are some pictures of how I did it. http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/Cowl/index.htm - Andy Karmy andy@karmy.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:33 AM PST US From: DWENSING@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/04 1:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HCRV6@aol.com writes: > Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could > be > attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone > remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. > > Harry, It is Aircraft Extras. Here is web site. http://www.aircraftextras.com/ I have them and like them. Not flying yet be they have been great for the many times I have been in and out of the cabin while finishing. Dale Ensing RV-6A ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:48 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Bob 1 Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). > > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... > > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? > > Thanks, > Ralph Capen ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely.... or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. Bob ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:04 AM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I had the exact answer! It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then add 30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and expect to buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great! I got it! I'll never know how much I need until I get there! Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that it's OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I may have to do a little planning :-( Kathleen Evans Folsom, CA www.rv7.us Do not archive advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:11 AM PST US From: JusCash@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under the instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations only, can't hear it in flight. Cash Copeland RV-6 160 hours and counting Hayward, Ca In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, recapen@earthlink.net writes: Folks, After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:30 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" I think this is what you are thinking about. Terry http://www.aircraftextras.com/Handles1.htm --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:21 AM PST US From: wgill10@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: wgill10@comcast.net Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I > have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground > operation (pre-flight etc). > > > > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be > difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... > > > > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work > properly - volume, freq, distortion...? > > > > Thanks, > > Ralph Capen > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely.... > or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. > > > Bob > > > > > > Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? Thanks, Ralph Capen You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely.... or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. Bob < BR> om/digest/rv-list ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:43 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane TAS from IAS and altitude and temp only works if your airspeed indicator is correct... I just posted some flight test cards I made up for myself for flying GPS speed runs... You can put the numbers into the more sophisticated TAS algorithm if you want, but if you just add them up and divide by three you will be within a mile an hour or knot... http://www.rv8a.com/downloads/index.htm -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "aviatrr76" Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, linn walters wrote: > Nope, GPS speed is ground speed. The averaging would only attempt to > convert groundspeed to true airspeed. There is a formula for converting > groundspeed over three legs to true airspeed. Then there's indicated > airspeed to throw into the mix. Sigh, flying used to be so simple! The original question was in response to..... > >> He stated 190mph on the GPS...so I assume he's referring to TAS, > >> > >> > >not > > > > > >> IAS. My comment about averaging upwind/downwind legs meant that if you fly a 3 or more leg pattern(I prefer 4), with equivalent angles between the headings, then average the numbers....you will have a rough TAS. Of course, the other thing to do would be take your IAS and convert it to TAS based on altitude and temperature. Mike http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM Online help on this group at: http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/ <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:54 AM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" Harry, Try here: http://www.aircraftextras.com/Handles1.htm Kathleen Evans Folsom, CA www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:24 AM PST US From: "Jim & Bev Cone" Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel... --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" Another possibility is that the aileron is contacting the skin or the wing tip at the outboard point. My aileron was contacting the fiberglass where it is under the top outboard wing skin. I filed the fiberglass so that the aileron cleared and the resistance went away. Jim Cone 3-peat Offender RV-7A flying very soon ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:38 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Springer" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer > > LarryRobertHelming wrote: > > >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not > >using Bob's system. > > > And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying > aircraft that do not use the Bob K method > of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems > whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches > has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown > in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style > electrical systems and have not been a problem. > > Jerry (((((((((()))))))) Jerry I have learned a lot from you and the RV-List over many months of being here. Thanks for that. Jerry, with all due respect sir, I meant to be comparing Bob K's method with Van's method when I said Bob K's was a safer method. I agree there are many other good systems and I am sure some safer ones. I don't think the most popular certified plane, the Cessna, is safer in its electronics than Bob K's system. Anyhoo, The system under consideration that I was comparing to was the Vans system/method. So, I guess you fully understand the Bob K reasoning for using fuses rather than CB? And although you have never had to reset a CB in 15 years you still feel there is the need to have an instantly resetable controlling device rather than a non-instantly resetable controlling device? That does not make sense to me and neither does it to Bob K. Debugging an electrical problem is my last concern while I am flying. I do believe in putting out an electrical fire by opening the circuit however. My fuse will do that! Last time I looked, CBs cost a lot more than busses and fuses and CBs weight more. And CBs use more panel space. I am glad your system works for you. Does your system have an alternate power source like the Bob K system in what he calls the e-buss? If so, good for you. But if you never have a problem, it is NOT needed. I agree. And I guess you have over voltage and low voltage warnings. Are you using ring terminals or the push on type that Bob K recommends for reasons? If you use the push on type, good for you. Are you stacking electrical needs of several devices and work loads onto one CB or do you have a dedicated circuit for each device as you do with fuses? And if your alternator goes out, I plan to be able to continue my original flight plan and land at my original planned destination rather than start sweating to find a close place to land. That is another Bob K system feature by the way. I still think the Bob K method/or philosophy is better than most planes flying today. It is a lot more than CB vs. Fuses. We are all interested in building better planes. Thanks for your response. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 11:43:38 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Cash, Thanks for the info - I have a West Marine nearby - shoulda thought of that myself..... Sometimes an extra brain helps, Ralph -----Original Message----- From: JusCash@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under the instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations only, can't hear it in flight. Cash Copeland RV-6 160 hours and counting Hayward, Ca In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, recapen@earthlink.net writes: Folks, After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight etc). My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance..... Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly - volume, freq, distortion...? Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:14 AM PST US From: JusCash@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com I would like to share my fuse experience with the list. My electrical system is per Electric Bob. My system has just one circuit breaker for the alternator. Returning from a trip I landed for gas at Barstow, Ca. The starter would not work. Checked the fuse, sure enough it was blown. I must have went to the start position during the Mag check at the previous fuel stop. Looked in my travel tool bag for a spare there were no fuses. I then remembered taking them out of the bag to inventory them. Must have gotten distracted and forgot to put them back. I thought to myself, where in the world am I going to find a fuse in the middle of the desert? One of the locals had a box of fuses in the glove compartment of his truck. He really got me when he said "Out here in the desert 7.5 amp airplane fuses cost $20.00 apiece." I didn't hesitate as I reached into my pocket for a Twenty. This turned out to be the big joke of the day at the Barstow airport. He gave the fuse and a spare. Fuses work for me, this was the first to blow. Just be sure to carry spares. Cash Copeland RV-6 160 hrs and counting Hayward, Ca In a message dated 7/15/2004 3:27:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sears@searnet.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes > fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are > expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not > advise against using them. Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion, take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A. > It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to > Walmart for fuses....? > I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere. Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart. It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers. I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them, either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but, I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 EAA Technical Counselor EAA Flight Advisor _- ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 12:01:04 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper Most automobile stereo speakers are 4 ohm. There are plenty of cheap 1-way's out there. --- Bob 1 wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" > > > > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun > intended) information - I > have decided that a small cabin speaker would be > helpful for ground > operation (pre-flight etc). > > > > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm > speaker which seem to be > difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available > in abundance..... > > > > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or > will it not work > properly - volume, freq, distortion...? > > > > Thanks, > > Ralph Capen > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely.... > or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel. > > > Bob > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:12 PM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: RV-List: EGT follow-up --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com Having flown a test run to check out the effect of each magneto on my gradually-rising EGT readings, I am ready to post some follow-up data: First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm & 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for each cylinder, to see who leaned first and what the max temps were. Recall that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl #3 in previous tests, but that the idiot light alarm was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the range of 1540 F. The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the first to peak as well as posting the highest peak. I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the same power setting (75%) and took readings running on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here are the results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three conditions: Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398 Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528 Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457 From thses data, I can conclude: 1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not reproducible today. 2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of cylinders 2 the left mag alone raises the temp of #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl #1. I assume this has some clever connection with which mag is firing the top or bottom plugs on these cylinders. 3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than for the left, across all cylinders, and may correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have always seen on run-up mag checks(consistently drops 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50 rpm on the L) I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to about 1560 F and just keep an eye on things for now. I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to OSH, I can check the effect of 100LL as well. Comments welcome! -Bill B ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:52 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 7/15/04 8:45:32 AM Central Daylight Time, eanderson@carolina.rr.com writes: > but I have - on more > than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary > overload condition and continue on operating the equipment >>>>>>>>>> I would respectfully suggest that if the circuit you mention were properly designed, the overload would never have occured. This is the elegant simplicity of the Bob N (as in Nuckolls!) system: complete understanding and correct implementation of your very important electrical system.... Mark- all-electric RV driver and devout Nuckollhead 8-) ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 01:33:39 PM PST US From: Sabswbc@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT follow-up --> RV-List message posted by: Sabswbc@aol.com The rise in egt temperature is caused by unburned gases passing into the exhaust system. With both mags on, the fuel is burned in the cyc where it belongs. This loss of power due to incomplete combustion is also why the rpm drops. ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:52 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: EGT follow-up --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper If you had a reasonable rise on either mag (you did) from both, then your mags/plugs/etc. are probably ok. To really test your ignition system, repeat the test Lean of Peak. Variations in batches of auto gas can certainly have an effect on EGT. My bet is that is most likely the case. Again, EGT is best used as a relative measurement, not an absolute measurement. Cylinder head temperatures are really more important in an absolute sense. Finally, engine RPM will have an effect on the max egt attainable at a given manifold pressure. Try running the test at 2700 RPM's and see how much hotter they get! Skylor RV-8 QB Under Construction N808SJ Reserved --- SportAV8R@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > > Having flown a test run to check out the effect of > each magneto on my gradually-rising EGT readings, I > am ready to post some follow-up data: > > First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm & > 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for each cylinder, to > see who leaned first and what the max temps were. > Recall that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl > #3 in previous tests, but that the idiot light alarm > was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the > range of 1540 F. > > The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509 > 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the first to peak as > well as posting the highest peak. > > I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the > same power setting (75%) and took readings running > on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here > are the results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three > conditions: > > Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398 > > Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528 > > Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457 > > From thses data, I can conclude: > 1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not > reproducible today. > 2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of > cylinders 2 the left mag alone raises the temp of > #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl > #1. I assume this has some clever connection with > which mag is firing the top or bottom plugs on these > cylinders. > 3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than > for the left, across all cylinders, and may > correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have > always seen on run-up mag checks(consistently drops > 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50 rpm on the > L) > > I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to > about 1560 F and just keep an eye on things for now. > I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might > have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to > OSH, I can check the effect of 100LL as well. > > Comments welcome! > > -Bill B > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:00 PM PST US From: "Ross Mickey" Subject: RV-List: IFR to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I see they require a slot reservation be made. http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve 72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from Flow control? So many questions. Ross Mickey N9PT RV6A ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 03:53:55 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Power settings From: "Berthet, Andre G" --> RV-List message posted by: "Berthet, Andre G" My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM. Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM? Thanks Andre Pleasanton, CA RV-6, N29TA ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:32 PM PST US From: "Richard V. Reynolds" Subject: Re: RV-List: Power settings --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" Andre, Ask Lycoming for the equivalent of Curve Sheet 13358 (O-360) for your engine. This curve sheet tell you all that you were afraid to ask! Richard Reynolds, RV-6A "Berthet, Andre G" wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Berthet, Andre G" > > My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL > (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM. > > Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in > relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM? > > Thanks > > Andre > > Pleasanton, CA > > RV-6, N29TA > ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:04 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" > > Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit > on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more > than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary > overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that > with a fuse. Ed, I agree that can't be done with a fuse but don't agree that is important. Bob K advocates using fuses and sizing them in the circuit so that the fuse is large enough to not give bogus failures WHILE protecting the wire from damage. >I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight > and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical > system I agree with the first part ED, but the critical systems is where use of the Bob K philosophies are most important. Bob K means more than fuses vs. CBs. What part(s) of the system do you consider critical? > > FWIW > > Ed > > Ed Anderson > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered > Matthews, NC Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Not knowing is not a big problem, knowing the wrong thing can be. Do not archive. If anyone has an interest in learning more about Bob Knuckolls, matronics.com has a list service called aeroelectric-list similar to the rv-list. Great archives there ready for reference. ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:43 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Sorry in advance for the plug....but.... when you start "buying" all that wire, I sell it cheaper than anyone else, with discounts for the spools! FYI, my business started because I was buying large spools of wire for my RV6 projects, first 500 ft spools, then more, now I'm buying in 10,000' spools - that's why I can sell it cheaper! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive (I'm not that tacky). ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Kathleen (rv7)" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" > >Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I had >the exact answer! > >It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then add >30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and expect to >buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great! I got it! >I'll never know how much I need until I get there! > >Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that it's >OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I may have >to do a little planning :-( > >Kathleen Evans >Folsom, CA >www.rv7.us > >Do not archive > > >advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:22 PM PST US From: "Dave Ford" Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh? Dave Ford RV6 ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:57 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" > > This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at > the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from > Ripon to Osh? > > Dave Ford > RV6 Dave, your RV will overheat at the slow 90 knot speed!!!!!!! Com'on, throttle back and fly the 135 knot, higher altitude, inbound speed:>) Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 496 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:29 PM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel... --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" I had a similar problem and found my left aileron outer bearing frozen. There is so much leverage when using the stick you'll never notice it from inside. Its a fairly common problem with old bearings. Vans has switched to a different type. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel... > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > Let me know what you find, mine does the same thing. 150 hours now, flies > great. > > > At 10:49 AM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > > > > > Hi: > > > > I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only > > thing, is > > that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some resistance at > >the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the stick > >moves easily.. > > > > I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is > > absolutely > >not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one finger.... > > > > Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this? > > > > Thanks > > > > Bert > > > > > >rv6a > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:49 PM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them. They work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure out how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles, aluminum of course. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? > --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could be > attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone > remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. > > Do not archive > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, final assembly > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:43 PM PST US From: John Ammeter Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter I don't understand the problem... With my RV-6, I'd simply use the left and right sides of the cockpit. Push down and lift myself out of the cockpit. John On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:52:28 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" > >I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them. They >work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure out >how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles, >aluminum of course. > >Jeff > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com >> >> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could >be >> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does >anyone >> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. >> >> Do not archive >> >> Harry Crosby >> Pleasanton, California >> RV-6, final assembly >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:46 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a Cessna Mixmaster. Dave Ford wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh? Dave Ford RV6 tion -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:18 PM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Once you get used to using the handles, you'll never go back. I also never stand on my seats. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Ammeter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? > --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter > > I don't understand the problem... > > With my RV-6, I'd simply use the left and right sides of the > cockpit. Push down and lift myself out of the cockpit. > > John > > > On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:52:28 -0500, you wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" > > > >I dont remember who it was but I bought and installed a pair of them. They > >work great. Every time Im in someone's rv without handles I cant figure out > >how to get out of the plane :) I believe they are computer rack handles, > >aluminum of course. > > > >Jeff > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? > > > > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > >> > >> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could > >be > >> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does > >anyone > >> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me. > >> > >> Do not archive > >> > >> Harry Crosby > >> Pleasanton, California > >> RV-6, final assembly > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 59 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:06 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Watch out! --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Yes, I was the first one to jump ugly while only having heard one side of the story. I get a bit touchy about the lack of honor and civility in society. My friends in the flying/building community are an oasis in a social desert. So anyway, I was wrong, but after hearing the other side of the story, I don't feel any differently. 6 weeks for a family emergency, and no phone call, no email, no nothing. I burried a relative 500 miles away and sold her house in 2 weeks. (btw, the RV transformed a 10 hr drive into a 3 hr flight) Either way, if the agreement was that paypal was acceptable, then the payment could have been made from any internet connected PC. Are we also ignoring the seller's unreturned correspondence?? Did the buyer not communicate with his family, office, anyone durring those 5 weeks. Comeon. Maybe the buyer's intent was not to rip anyone off. Lets give him the benefit of the doubt. Then, at the very least it shows a calous disregard for the civility and common (uncommon) courtesy that people in the RV community show towards each other. A simple "I've had a family emergency and can't get a check out for 5 weeks" would have probably worked. I'm wondering if he forgot to pay his mortgage during this time? I don't know about you all, but when I owe someone money, I think about it CONSTANTLY. Its a thorn in my side until I get a check out. Last I'm saying on this. Best regards, Don Mei p.s. I did not advocate damaging the plane. If the rudder was missing, the buyer would have most assuredly noticed in his pre-flight. ;-) (last I checked the 1st ammendment was still in effect) MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 60 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:43 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com I wouldn't trade my RV for anything, but I do know 2 builders who have built Mustang II's from plans. They have bought virtually nothing for the airframe. These sound like good planes, but the RV's seem to have more enthusiastic owners. Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term slow-build) Do not archive (Snip) From: "Tedi" Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... > Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's? > ________________________________ Message 61 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:11 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles? --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Thanks to everyone who pointed me to WWW.aircraftextras.com. This list is GREAT if you can resist (and ignore) the "primer war" syndrome. Do not archive. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 62 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:26 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: plans --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer j1j2h3@juno.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com > >I wouldn't trade my RV for anything, but I do know 2 builders who have >built Mustang II's from plans. They have bought virtually nothing for >the airframe. These sound like good planes, but the RV's seem to have >more enthusiastic owners. > >Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term >slow-build) > >Do not archive > > >(Snip) > >From: "Tedi" >Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 >(\214rodkowoeuropejs... > > > Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by >Van's? > > I believe you would have a easier time building a RV-6 using the old plans, the reason is that they had more dimensions and full size drawing included. My limited experience with the new plans is that a lot of the dimensions are missing because of the pre punch and also because many of the parts are already cut to size. My experience with the new style drawings is limited to theRV-7 vertical stab and rudder I built for my RV-6. At the Independence, Oregon airport is an RV-6 built only from plans. Jerry do not archive ________________________________ Message 63 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:32 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" Flown to Oshkosh 5 out of the last 6 years at the 1,800 90 Knot speed. Did not go to AirVenture the one year. 4 of the 5 times it was as a flight of RVs. NO SIDE BY SIDE. So the flight landed close together in trail. Watch out for that wake turbulance. My SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is to do a practice 90 KIAS for about 5 or 10 minutes whiile I am still over one hour out of Oshkosh. If your airplane can fly 90 KIAS, they EXPECT you to fly the 90 KIAS pattern. If you cannot fly your RV at 90 KIAS under control in line behind other aircraft, you have no business flying it into AirVenture. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Dave Ford" Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Ford" This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh? Dave Ford RV6 MSN Life Events gives you the tips and tools to handle the turning points in your life. http://lifeevents.msn.com ________________________________ Message 64 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:26 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RV-List: Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" If anyone has some Klixon 7277-2 CB's for sale, I'm looking for several. Contact off list for a list of what I need. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________ Message 65 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:17 PM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" So now Stein, you get a double plug! Someone else had already recommended your website and, so far, it looks like you really do have the best prices. Let's see, how much do you owe me for this public response? No, do not archive. Kathleen Evans Folsom, CA www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Sorry in advance for the plug....but.... when you start "buying" all that wire, I sell it cheaper than anyone else, with discounts for the spools! FYI, my business started because I was buying large spools of wire for my RV6 projects, first 500 ft spools, then more, now I'm buying in 10,000' spools - that's why I can sell it cheaper! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com Do Not Archive (I'm not that tacky). ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Kathleen (rv7)" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" > >Thanks to all who offered suggestions both on and off list! At last, I >had the exact answer! > >It's, "Buy a lot plus that much more (making it twice as much). Then >add 30% as a safety margin. With all that in hand, start wiring and >expect to buy at least twice as much as you already have." That's great! I got it! >I'll never know how much I need until I get there! > >Seriously though, I do appreciate the help and I do now understand that >it's OK to buy the big rolls. They'll get used. But it sounds like I >may have to do a little planning :-( > >Kathleen Evans >Folsom, CA >www.rv7.us > >Do not archive > > >advertising on the Matronics Forums. > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 66 ____________________________________ Time: 10:18:48 PM PST US From: Jeff Bertsch Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch I flew IFR to Oshkosh last year and got the reservation just as soon as the system would let me do it. The previous year I tried to get one at the last minute since the weather went IFR on the way up. Could not get one. Ended up going IFR into Madison and when I broke out on final I found it was good enough to go VFR into Fond du Lac so I cancelled and diverted. If it is actual VFR they say they will cancel your IFR when you get close and make you sequence in with the VFR traffic. My experience was they vectored me onto a long final approach, I got in behind a plane and landed on the first dot. Easy and it was a good experience. Jeff lonestarsquadron.com Ross Mickey wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Mickey" Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I see they require a slot reservation be made. http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve 72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from Flow control? So many questions. Ross Mickey N9PT RV6A --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 67 ____________________________________ Time: 10:30:22 PM PST US From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne Lower. At 08:20 PM 7/15/2004, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen > >I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a >Cessna Mixmaster. > >Dave Ford wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave >Ford" > >This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, >lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh? > >Dave Ford >RV6 > > >tion > > >-- >Scott VanArtsdalen >RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! > > When a man does all he can > though it succeeds not well, > blame not him that did it." > -- George Washington > >