---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 07/19/04: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:57 AM - Plenum (LarryRobertHelming) 2. 07:57 AM - Semco Sealant Cartridges (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 3. 08:19 AM - Re: Plenum (Jeff Point) 4. 08:36 AM - Re: Is my RV9A too slow? (Donald Mei) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Plenum (Jim Anglin) 6. 09:56 AM - Some interesting pictures of a turbine installation in an RV-6A (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 7. 11:02 AM - Re: Initial electrical set up (Jeff Cours) 8. 11:13 AM - Re: Fw: plans (Jeff Cours) 9. 12:25 PM - Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Jamie Painter) 10. 12:48 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Sam Buchanan) 11. 12:48 PM - Plenum Pics (Jeff Point) 12. 01:30 PM - Brake chatter (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 13. 01:35 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Randy Lervold) 14. 01:38 PM - Hoisting fuselage (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 15. 02:04 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Patrick Kelley) 16. 03:07 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Richard Lundin) 17. 03:46 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Scott Vanartsdalen) 18. 04:12 PM - Re: Brake chatter (Denis Walsh) 19. 04:47 PM - Re: Brake chatter (RV6 Flyer) 20. 05:06 PM - Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" (Dave Bristol) 21. 07:52 PM - Re: Plenum (DJB6A@cs.com) 22. 07:55 PM - Seeking some expertise (Brian) 23. 08:29 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Tom Gummo) 24. 08:37 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Karie Daniel) 25. 08:46 PM - Headset Recommendation (Kyle Boatright) 26. 08:49 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (John Ammeter) 27. 09:01 PM - Re: Headset Recommendation (Cory Emberson) 28. 09:06 PM - Re: Photos of RV-4 Stick boots. (Jeff Bertsch) 29. 09:06 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Scott Vanartsdalen) 30. 10:13 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Kathleen (rv7)) 31. 10:23 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Bruce Gray) 32. 11:25 PM - Re: Seeking some expertise (Bob 1) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:02 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: RV-List: Plenum --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Andy (or anyone else who wishes to respond), this has probably been just about worn out as far as you are concerned, but I have a question that is causing me to hesitate somewhat before making a fiberglass/epoxy based plenum for my O-360. Is there any concern about the high temps in the plenum after engine shut down that would cause the plenum to change its shape when using West System epoxy? Is there a alternative to epoxy more heat tolerant when using fiberglass or carbon fiber? Thanks. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:47 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Semco Sealant Cartridges From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" I purchased a surplus Semco gun on ebay and it seems to work well with the prepackaged cartridges. However, when I ordered some additional cartridges from AC Spruce they didn't come with the rear seal (the part that the gun plunger pushes on). A couple empty cartridges were included with the gun that had them. A call to AC Spruce didn't seem to get much besides head scratching. I've also looked at the other aviation tool places and haven't had any luck locating either the seals or another source empty cartridges that do have them. I'd use the filled cartridges from Vans except that in addition to being much more expensive, I believe that they have 1/2 pot life instead of the 2 hours that you get from mixing from the quart cans. Surely I can't be the first to encounter this - any thoughts? Bob RV-10 #40105 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:11 AM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point Have you considered forgetting the fiberglass and going with an aluminum plenum? Probably a lot less work, and no worries about heat. I can send you some pics of mine if you want ideas. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:27 AM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Re: Is my RV9A too slow? --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Kim, what RPM were you turning whan you were flat out? What altitude were you indicating 140 Kts?? I flew an RV-9 / 160 back from Seattle to CT and found that at 2700 rpm my true airspeed at 9500 feet was about 155 kts. I just read the TAS off the instrument and don't have any real supporting info besides that. Don "All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:27 AM PST US From: "Jim Anglin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Anglin" An easy way to do a fibreglass lid is lay the lid up in the top of the cowling and then fit and trim it to standard baffling with .032 angle bent the appropiate angle to blend into the lid. Put the angles on in 6" pcs. for temp flexxing and because it's easier to make them the proper angle. As for the heat, it shouldn't be a problem because it will be cool when you are flying and there won't be any pressure on it when it is hot (on the ground). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Point" Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > > Have you considered forgetting the fiberglass and going with an aluminum > plenum? Probably a lot less work, and no worries about heat. I can > send you some pics of mine if you want ideas. > > Jeff Point > RV-6 > Milwaukee WI > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:01 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Some interesting pictures of a turbine installation in an RV-6A From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" http://riversaeronautical.com/rv6at.asp A friend (Barefoot Billy) sold his plane to this company as a test bed. Do not ask me any questions about this cause I know less than zero about it. We have already hashed this turbine stuff recently in the list so check there before going around the Mulberry bush again. They do PLAN on flying it to Osh. Michael Stewart Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:02:58 AM PST US From: Jeff Cours Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Curt Reimer wrote: > Without getting into the math, redundant systems with fuses are going to be > more reliable than a single system with a circuit breaker *every time*. > Usually by several orders of magnitude. It's been a long time since the last time I took a class that covered redundant and reliable circuits, so I certainly don't mean this to come across as arguing the point. I'm mostly trying to knock some of the rust off the old neurons. From what I remember, if you have multiple redundant systems, and you assume independent failure probabilities across the systems (not sure whether or not that's a good assumption, in this case), the probability of a partial failure increases but the probability of a total failure decreases. In other words, ignoring electrical fires, lightning strikes, and other events that are likely to cause common failures, your chances of having to replace a fuse should increase because there are more things with fuses, but your chances of totally losing, say, all your radios decrease because of the redundancy. Do I have it right? thanks, Jeff C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:13:50 AM PST US From: Jeff Cours Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: plans --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours Jim Sears wrote: > Gosh, guys. I'm glad I put my two cents in about my twisted rudder. > It's raised some good discussion. Anyway, I used a simple jig and got > almost all of the twist out. I'm just coming up on the 7A's rudder skeleton now. Since I'm a first time builder, and working on a newer 7A kit which doesn't seem to describe any tail jigs[1], what sort of jig are you using and how are you using it? I'm imagining an "H" made of 2x4's, with the uprights set plumb, with center lines on the top of the horizontal bar and the insides of the uprights. (Either that or a "U" on top of the work table, with shelf brackets to hold the uprights.) Are you fastening the spar to the horizontal piece somehow and then centering the end ribs on the uprights? Also, are you running a string across the uprights for the trailing edge, or just centering the end ribs? thanks, Jeff C. [1] Or maybe I just missed it, which is certainly possible. Just this morning I started hunting for the "detail view" on dwg 7 of the aft holes in the rudder horn and haven't found it yet... There is a wing jig description which I could probably adapt, but I haven't really gone into it in detail, yet. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:54 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" From: "Jamie Painter" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" After mulling over Dan's comment below I think that he makes a good point about the cost/time factors of building and using a precision jig. Granted, I still think that simple geometry tells me otherwise but you guys have instilled enough doubt in me that I am converting my hacked together wing jig to a more precision jig. Yes I'm stubborn...my wife let's me know about it all the time. :-) My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our cement garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill in the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also worried about cracking the floor. Jamie do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >> My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier post. > > My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws, clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out of the equation! > > Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators, rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a stand like that when riveting anyway. > > In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not, just build the jig and be done with it. -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:21 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Jamie Painter wrote: My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig > posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? Liquid Nail (other similar brand) construction adhesive available at any building supply store. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:48:36 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: RV-List: Plenum Pics --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point To all who requested pics of my plenum, I put some on a web site: http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/rv6plenumpics/ Jeff Point ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:30:52 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Brake chatter --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Since we're on the subject of brakes... Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to squeal and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads down to the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads would quiet things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters after 3 hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine. Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:14 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our cement > garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea > myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig > posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? > > I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill in > the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also > worried about cracking the floor. Liquid Nails, available at any home improvement center, about $3.50. You dispense it with a caulking gun, works great. When it's time to take the jig down just bend the wood post over and it will release. The dried Liquid Nails can be then removed from the concrete with MEK. Randy Lervold RV-8, 368 hrs, sold RV-3B, empennage, about to start fuselage and secure my jig posts to the floor with Liquid Nails ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:08 PM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Hoisting fuselage --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Dean, An engine hoist with a couple (for safety) of ratcheting cargo straps will easily lift the fuse. I did this but had to anchor the tail at the same time. Works very slick... You DO have an engine crane don't you? Best $149 spent. BTW, do you miss Oregon yet? :) Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR 7) When I go to put my main landing gear on I=92ll have the wings and tail on the airplane but probably not the motor yet, for you guys who used spar plugs on your 6As to get your airplanes on the gear while finishing in your garage and then taking the plane out to the airport and having to put the wings on after everything else is done, how did you lift up the airplane to pull the spar plugs install the wings and reinstall the main gear mounts? Seems like the airplane would have to be lifted up quite a ways to install the gear legs from the bottom, how did you jack up the plane to do this ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:22 PM PST US From: "Patrick Kelley" Subject: RE: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" You can check out my free-standing jig at http://www.flion.com/rv6a/chap03.htm. Don't get too hung up on a 'precision' jig. It is possible to incorrectly align a part in a jig no matter how accurately the jig was built. On the other hand, it is possible to accurately align parts in any reasonable jig. Part of the semantic problem is that we are not really talking about jigs but about fixtures - structures designed to hold parts in position during assembly. As long as the fixture is stable, your assemblies will stay where you set them. Save your fine measuring for the parts themselves. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage being skinned, about to move to new home. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jamie Painter Subject: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" After mulling over Dan's comment below I think that he makes a good point about the cost/time factors of building and using a precision jig. Granted, I still think that simple geometry tells me otherwise but you guys have instilled enough doubt in me that I am converting my hacked together wing jig to a more precision jig. Yes I'm stubborn...my wife let's me know about it all the time. :-) My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our cement garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill in the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also worried about cracking the floor. Jamie do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >> My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier post. > > My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws, clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out of the equation! > > Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators, rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a stand like that when riveting anyway. > > In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not, just build the jig and be done with it. -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:20 PM PST US From: Richard Lundin Subject: RE: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Lundin Use construction adhesive to attach the posts to the concrete floor. Works great. I'm assuming you can attach them to the ceiling as well, with screws nails etc. Rick -- Patrick Kelley wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Patrick Kelley" > > > You can check out my free-standing jig at > http://www.flion.com/rv6a/chap03.htm. Don't get too > hung up on a > 'precision' jig. It is possible to incorrectly > align a part in a jig no > matter how accurately the jig was built. On the > other hand, it is possible > to accurately align parts in any reasonable jig. > Part of the semantic > problem is that we are not really talking about jigs > but about fixtures - > structures designed to hold parts in position during > assembly. As long as > the fixture is stable, your assemblies will stay > where you set them. Save > your fine measuring for the parts themselves. > > Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage being skinned, > about to move to new home. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On > Behalf Of Jamie Painter > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement > floor. Was: "plans" > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > > > After mulling over Dan's comment below I think that > he makes a good point > about the cost/time factors of building and using a > precision jig. Granted, > I > still think that simple geometry tells me otherwise > but you guys have > instilled enough doubt in me that I am converting my > hacked together wing > jig > to a more precision jig. Yes I'm stubborn...my wife > let's me know about it > all the time. :-) > > My wife has expressed her discomfort with my > drilling holes into our cement > garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too > thrilled about the idea > myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever > method of attaching 4x4 jig > posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve > drilling into the floor? > > I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement > crack filler and fill in > the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at > all possible. I'm also > worried about cracking the floor. > > Jamie > > do not archive > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > > >> My main concern is this: I can't see how any > component built from > completely pre-punched components could come out > twisted. The only > possible exception could be something such as an > inaccurate bend in a > folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I > mentioned in my earlier > post. > > > > My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" > topic comes up is: why > WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in > terms of wood, screws, > clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it > and take the variables out > of the equation! > > > > Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable > twist in the wings > doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. > It takes like 20 minutes > to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done > there, too), and then you > just take the horizontal member down and it's your > wing stand. Elevators, > rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. > Helps to have 'em in a > stand like that when riveting anyway. > > > > In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of > these wings is > unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. > Match-drilled or not, > just build the jig and be done with it. > > -- > Jamie D. Painter > RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) > http://rv.jpainter.org > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:25 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I borrowed a friend's wing jig that was made from steel U channel (the upright portion) with two pieces of steel angle bolted to them to make the "shelf" that the wing spar rests on. There was a hex nut welded to the top and bottom of the steel U channel uprights and a jackscrew was threaded through the nuts. A steel plate was welded on the top and bottom ends of the two jackscrews along with another nut. Then you just position the thing tighten the jackscrews against your ceiling or truss and against the garage floor. The assembly would have been better made out of aluminum but he works with steel so go figure. I might be able to rustle up some photos if you're interested. Jamie Painter wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" After mulling over Dan's comment below I think that he makes a good point about the cost/time factors of building and using a precision jig. Granted, I still think that simple geometry tells me otherwise but you guys have instilled enough doubt in me that I am converting my hacked together wing jig to a more precision jig. Yes I'm stubborn...my wife let's me know about it all the time. :-) My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our cement garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill in the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also worried about cracking the floor. Jamie do not archive > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > >> My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier post. > > My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws, clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out of the equation! > > Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators, rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a stand like that when riveting anyway. > > In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not, just build the jig and be done with it. -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:25 PM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake chatter --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh First check for a full release on all brake pedals. Reach in and see if the pedals (especially the right side right pedal) always and easily returns to the full aft position. If it does not then it would cause the dragging brake which could cause the squeal and premature wear. Lubricate, loosen and finally perhaps replace (or stretch) the return springs. There is very little movement in these master cylinders and it is easy to miss a stiff pedal. The plane doesn't give much clue that a brake is dragging unless it is really stuck hard. Good luck. This will fix it 90% of the time. 95% if you have dual brakes. Denis On Jul 19, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Jerry2DT@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > Since we're on the subject of brakes... > > Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to > squeal > and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads > down to > the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads > would quiet > things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters > after 3 > hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine. > > Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho. > > Jerry Cochran > Wilsonville, OR > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:02 PM PST US From: "RV6 Flyer" Subject: RE: RV-List: Brake chatter --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" A number of years back, there was an RV-6(A) that had a squeal with the brakes all the time from day one. Turns out there was hose all the way down the gear to the caliper. Apply brakes, and the hose got stiff (tried to straighten out) and caused a little out of alignment of the brakes to the disc. When replaced with rigid tubing, it worked fine. On my airplane with rigid tubing, I have seen the problem of squeal noise from brakes on one occasion. After changing the lining, I got the tubing a little out of line and that kept the pads from hitting the disc straight. After about 3 attempts of adjusting the tubing, I got the tubing aligned without any preload on the caliper. The noise was gone. This may not be your problem but it is worth checking. It has happened to me once and only trial an error (one change at a time) found the problem. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,527 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Brake chatter --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com Since we're on the subject of brakes... Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to squeal and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads down to the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads would quiet things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters after 3 hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine. Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:11 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Bondo will hold it and it comes off easy. Dave Jamie Painter wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > >After mulling over Dan's comment below I think that he makes a good point >about the cost/time factors of building and using a precision jig. Granted, I >still think that simple geometry tells me otherwise but you guys have >instilled enough doubt in me that I am converting my hacked together wing jig >to a more precision jig. Yes I'm stubborn...my wife let's me know about it >all the time. :-) > >My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our cement >garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea >myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig >posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor? > >I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill in >the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also >worried about cracking the floor. > >Jamie > >do not archive > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" >> >> >> >>>My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from >>> >>> >completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only >possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a >folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier >post. > > >>My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why >> >> >WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws, >clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out >of the equation! > > >>Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings >> >> >doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes >to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you >just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators, >rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a >stand like that when riveting anyway. > > >>In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is >> >> >unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not, >just build the jig and be done with it. > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:37 PM PST US From: DJB6A@cs.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum --> RV-List message posted by: DJB6A@cs.com Larry, I built my plenum using the cowl as the top form. Then used foam to form the rest of the plenum plug. I used West Epoxy and carbon fiber to try and reduce weight. It took a lot of time and effort to make the plug, mold and them the plenum - looks rather cool though. After I had finished it I spoke with Sam James (James Holy Cowl) at Sun n Fun and he said he uses a special high temp epoxy, but you have to have a "license" to buy it. Any way I was pretty upset after talking with him, he suggested heat curing it, I went home and put it in the Sauna increasing temp to 200F and then left it there for an hour. When I went in to check it was hot, but fine, no distortion. I haven't flown yet - maybe September or October then I'll let you know if I find a gooey mess under the cowl - don't expect to. Dave Burnham RV6A N64FN ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:29 PM PST US From: "Brian" Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" Hello- I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals can. I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I would really appreciate the feedback. Thank you very much- Brian Starting from the basics ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:29:18 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Brian, I have flown in a Lancair a couple of times (but I am not an expert nor do I play one on TV) but isn't 2200 feet a little short for those plastic planes with tall trees at each end. Bruce (Glasair III), jump in here, and set the record straight. What is the min runway length that you would be comfortable in these planes? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" > > Hello- > > I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. > I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply > observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I > have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride > in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. > > I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to > purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun > researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my > own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional > Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for > the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals > can. > > I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has > strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country > trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off > from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI > when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a > passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. > > A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a > lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in > purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the > road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning > on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. > > Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but > if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I > would really appreciate the feedback. > > Thank you very much- > > Brian > Starting from the basics > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:23 PM PST US From: "Karie Daniel" Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" Brian, What part of the country do you live? Vans has no problem burning a little 100LL to help you make this decision. If you aren't near Oregon then most likely there is an EAA chapter not far away from where you do live. Visit a meeting, talk to the members who are always glad to show off their pride and joy. Also to know more about each or the RV's be sure to vist HTTP://www.vansaircraft.com you will find a wealth of pre-purchase information regarding all of their aircraft. Good Luck and FWIW....some builders started out in their living room before moving to the garage. Karie Daniel RV-7A QB Sammamish, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" > > Hello- > > I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. > I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply > observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I > have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride > in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. > > I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to > purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun > researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my > own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional > Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for > the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals > can. > > I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has > strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country > trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off > from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI > when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a > passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. > > A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a > lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in > purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the > road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning > on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. > > Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but > if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I > would really appreciate the feedback. > > Thank you very much- > > Brian > Starting from the basics > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:30 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: RV-List: Headset Recommendation --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of Lightspeed 25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's for her, but they only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left, and I need the cord on the right for my passenger. Recommendations? Thanks in advance, KB ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:49:47 PM PST US From: John Ammeter Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 20:34:15 -0700, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" > >Brian, >What part of the country do you live? Vans has no problem burning a little >100LL to help you make this decision. If you aren't near Oregon then most >likely there is an EAA chapter not far away from where you do live. Visit a >meeting, talk to the members who are always glad to show off their pride and >joy. > >Also to know more about each or the RV's be sure to vist >HTTP://www.vansaircraft.com you will find a wealth of pre-purchase >information regarding all of their aircraft. Good Luck and FWIW....some >builders started out in their living room before moving to the garage. > >Karie Daniel >RV-7A QB >Sammamish, WA. > > I recall one Project Visit where the RV was being built in the living room. BTW, the builder was single... He was planning on replacing the carpet after finishing the airplane. John Ammeter ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:26 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Headset Recommendation --> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" I have Peltors and love them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Subject: RV-List: Headset Recommendation --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of Lightspeed 25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's for her, but they only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left, and I need the cord on the right for my passenger. Recommendations? Thanks in advance, KB ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:42 PM PST US From: Jeff Bertsch Subject: RV-List: Re: Photos of RV-4 Stick boots. --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch I am also looking for ideas for stick boots - especially in the rear seat of my RV-4. (It seems whenever I drop anything, it always goes into the hole.) So please also send me any pictures you may have. noms1reqd@yahoo.com Thanks. Jeff Bertsch lonestarsquadron.com --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:42 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen It sounds like the plane you want is the RV-10 but it won't be available to purchase in any price range for quite some time. I'd look for a nice used RV-6A with 180 horse motor and a constant speed prop. That's probably your best bet for a semi-economical go-anywhere-with-a-passenger machine. The RV-4 is your best bet for a pure-joy machine (ok, maybe an RV-3) but you won't find either in 'A' configurations. If you're approaching this as an investment, be forewarned that you might not fit in with the vast majority of the RV crowd. Most of us built ours from the ground up for the pure love of these planes. Buying one for an investment is fine, just don't tell anyone about it. :-) I hope you read the thread recently on using RV's as instrument platforms. The concensus (I'm not IFR rated so I have no opinion) is that unless you are at the top of your IFR game you might want to think twice about it. Most agreed that they are fine for punching through morning and marine stratus but it didn't sound like you'd want to battle a decent storm in one. Sounded like an autopilot was a must for IFR types in RVs. 95 deg, tall pine trees, 2200' strip, passenger. Hmmm might be cutting it close. Definately doable solo. Maybe some of those trees could mysteriously fall down in the middle of the night. It's been known to happen. You might have to adjust your expectations slightly but you definately won't be disappointed. Then again, there's always some RV-er out there ready and willing to make a liar out of me. Oh, and you'd not just like the plane but love it if you built it yourself. Yes it's a sacrifice but is there anyone here who will say it wasn't worth it? At least give it some thought. Brian wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" Hello- I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals can. I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I would really appreciate the feedback. Thank you very much- Brian Starting from the basics -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:11 PM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" Brian, If you really are considering buying a homebuilt, there is one point to consider that is always in the back of my mind regarding the difference between conventional metal and glass airplanes. That is, how do you tell if a glass airframe has been damaged and improperly repaired? It is pretty hard to hide from an experienced eye when sheetmetal has been pounded out or filled with bondo, but glass planes are especially easy to fill and hide the evidence. Truly, most builders and owners are honest and want it done right, but your ability to know that for sure is much stronger with a sheetmetal airplane. If you've ever worked with fiberglass, you know that it would be very easy to fill a structural crack and paint over it. To the eye, it would look perfect and there are very few ways to find the defect. I wouldn't be very confident buying a glass plane (homebuilt or certified) unless I knew the seller very very well, but that's just one woman's opinion.... Kathleen Evans Folsom, CA www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" Hello- I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals can. I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I would really appreciate the feedback. Thank you very much- Brian Starting from the basics advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:44 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" A Glasair II - 2,500 feet A Glasair III - 3,000 feet. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gummo Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Brian, I have flown in a Lancair a couple of times (but I am not an expert nor do I play one on TV) but isn't 2200 feet a little short for those plastic planes with tall trees at each end. Bruce (Glasair III), jump in here, and set the record straight. What is the min runway length that you would be comfortable in these planes? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" > > Hello- > > I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft. > I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply > observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I > have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride > in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else.. > > I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to > purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun > researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my > own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional > Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for > the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals > can. > > I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has > strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country > trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off > from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI > when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a > passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. > > A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a > lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in > purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the > road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning > on the RV series but I need to compare the facts.. > > Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but > if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I > would really appreciate the feedback. > > Thank you very much- > > Brian > Starting from the basics > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:44 PM PST US From: "Bob 1" Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeking some expertise --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian" > > Hello- > > > I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to > purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun > researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my > own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional > Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for > the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals > can. > > I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has > strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country > trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off > from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI > when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a > passenger (I know it's a lot to ask).. > > Thank you very much- > > Brian > Starting from the basics +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I have a conservative friend that flies a Glasair III. It will never see a 2500 foot strip with tall trees on each end... hot summer or cold winter. An acquaintance owns a 2500 foot grass strip with 80' trees all around. Lots of RV's have flown in there. Not one Lancair or Glasair, yet. They buzz and then fly on by. Lancair and Glasair aircraft go faster... and land faster. RV's they are not, so the 'economies" are different. Also, be sure to check with your insurance agent before you purchase either one. The two doods I know flying these very hi performance aircraft are self insured because of rates and/or availability. One is a retired airline pilot, the other a very accomplished aerobatic pilot. Bob