Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:17 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Gasket (Ron Walker)
2. 04:17 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Gasket (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Flaring Tool (sdellangelo@netzero.com)
4. 06:09 AM - Re: Fuel Sender Gasket (Dean)
5. 06:33 AM - IO-360 FAB airbox blows up (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
6. 06:38 AM - Alaska trip report (Garrett, Randy L (C4S))
7. 07:03 AM - Re: RV-9A emp on RV-7A (Dean)
8. 07:24 AM - Re: New engine and prop... long... (Doug Gray)
9. 08:04 AM - Re: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up (Dan Checkoway)
10. 08:18 AM - Re: Antenna question (Tim Bryan)
11. 08:18 AM - Re: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
12. 08:20 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors at OSH (Jim Thorne)
13. 08:35 AM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
14. 08:41 AM - Prop Governor Settings (Ross Schlotthauer)
15. 09:02 AM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Skylor Piper)
16. 09:18 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors at OSH (Jeff Point)
17. 10:43 AM - data needed: 8(A) max stick deflection (alan_products)
18. 10:50 AM - Flightline Interiors (Donald Mei)
19. 11:05 AM - Re: Flightline Interiors (Dana Overall)
20. 11:52 AM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Tim Bryan)
21. 01:11 PM - Re: UV Smooth Prime (fiberglass - Ugh!) (RICKRV6@aol.com)
22. 02:02 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
23. 02:56 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Stein Bruch)
24. 03:02 PM - Re: Prop Governor Settings (Ken Beene)
25. 04:13 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Tim Bryan)
26. 04:41 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (cgalley)
27. 04:41 PM - Stewart Warner 200hp oil cooler result (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
28. 04:58 PM - Re: New engine and prop... long... (Dave Bristol)
29. 05:01 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Dan Brown)
30. 05:04 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Richard E. Tasker)
31. 05:08 PM - Camping in Vintage Camping in Oshkosh (Gert)
32. 05:10 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Jeff Cours)
33. 05:20 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (RV_8 Pilot)
34. 05:38 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Stein Bruch)
35. 05:39 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Paul Besing)
36. 06:06 PM - carrying Freon (Jim Duckett)
37. 06:14 PM - Re: Stewart Warner 200hp oil cooler result (RV8ter@aol.com)
38. 06:20 PM - WD-421 Aileron Bellcrank bushing (Allen Fulmer)
39. 06:30 PM - RV7A Rudder... (Travis Hamblen)
40. 06:32 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Jamie Painter)
41. 07:14 PM - RV4 Center Console Pictures (Richard Bibb)
42. 07:17 PM - Re: WD-421 Aileron Bellcrank bushing (Dan Checkoway)
43. 07:22 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (cgalley)
44. 09:30 PM - Re: carrying pressurized cylinders (Cammie Patch)
45. 11:14 PM - Pressure Trivia (was carrying pressurized cylinders) (Tedd McHenry)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gasket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ron Walker" <ron@walker.net>
I pressure tested my tanks after I built them last summer - all was fine.
Today I am going to remove the left tank cover plate because of a pesky
'seepage' type of leak around the sender gasket. I tried sealing it with
proseal from the outside twice - no luck. Save yourself a potential hassle
and proseal around the inside of that gasket and screw heads.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark phipps" <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gasket
> --> RV-List message posted by: mark phipps <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
>
> After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering
if I should have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks. What
have others done with this and has leaking been a problem just using the
gasket?
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gasket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
There was a short blurb in the RV-Aviator in one of the issues earlier this
year. It was not in the form of an alert or builder's change but it was
written by Vans and it basically said to eliminate possible fuel leaks at
the cork gasket, you should remove the gasket and seal it back up using
proseal without the gasket. They have apparently be showing some leaks
after several years. I took my ends off and redid them. Much, much easier
now with the wings off than later with them on.
The RV-Aviator is a needed publication IMHO.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark phipps" <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gasket
> --> RV-List message posted by: mark phipps <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
>
> After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering
if I should have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks. What
have others done with this and has leaking been a problem just using the
gasket?
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Flaring Tool |
--> RV-List message posted by: "sdellangelo@netzero.com" <sdellangelo@netzero.com>
I do have the nice one (Parker?) but when I saw this one I figured I would give
a heads up that it exists.
Scott DellAngelo
#90598 Waiting on Fuselage
Plainfield, IL
>Time: 11:29:57 PM PST US
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: flaring tool
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>Ditto that! Spend the money or borrow a good flaring tool and throw >away the
>clumsy clamp types that don't do as good of a job anyway....The >parker tool
>is top notch and "almost" idiot proof.
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gasket |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Mark
If you didn't do so already, you need to add sealant to the screw threads
and under the screw heads for both the sender and the cover plate.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark phipps" <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gasket
> --> RV-List message posted by: mark phipps <skydive80020@yahoo.com>
>
> After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering
if I should have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks. What
have others done with this and has leaking been a problem just using the
gasket?
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | IO-360 FAB airbox blows up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Please help!
The FAB air box blew up yesterday when I got a backfire trying to restart my
hot IO-360 (200 hp) engine. The engine floods every time it is shut down. To
clear the flooded condition, I opened the throttle and went to lean cutoff
and cranked. Sometime during this starting sequence I heard a backfire, and
then the engine started. Later I noticed the air filter (K&N) was wrinkled, and
removed the cowling to find that the FAB air box had opened up at the seams.
I have the Lycoming "sniffle valve" installed, and it dribbles fuel. The
sniffle valve is installed on a bracket about 6 inches aft of the hole in the
bottom of the plenum, and plumbed with 1/4 inch AN hardware in order to clear the
exhaust system.
The fuel system is the kit that Vans sells for the IO-360. The engine idles
and runs fine in every other regard.
It seems that opening the throttle may be the wrong thing to do, or is it? I
am new to this engine, and would appreciate any advice on how to start it to
prevent this from happening.
Does a purge valve prevent this flooding? If so, where is it placed in the
fuel system? Where do I get one?
Dan Hopper
N766DH
RV-7A (Flying 15 hours now)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Alaska trip report |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Garrett, Randy L (C4S)" <Randy.L.Garrett@gdc4s.com>
Many thanks for the excellent advice I received from this list. The trip was successful and a whole lot of fun. The trip report is online at: http://www.flyguides.com/roadtrip/
Randy Garrett
RV-6A
380 hours
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-9A emp on RV-7A |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
Sorry that I lost the original message, but please don't anyone even
consider installing the more powerful RV-9A 3.8g limit load horizontal tail
on the RV-7/7A 6.0g limit load airframe.
Dean Van Winkle
Retired Aeronautical Engineer/Flight Test Engineer
RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9A emp on RV-7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 07/20/2004 5:28:15 PM Central Standard Time,
> sears@searnet.com writes:
> I'd go with the -9A or the -7A
> as designed, wings and emp.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Ditto - Mark & do not archive
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New engine and prop... long... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Kevin,
I agree, why not eliminate the error if we can. A GPS and the simple
calculation provides a remarkably precise tool to make real performance
assessment.
To make use of Heading rather than the GPS track data the solution is to
create a new cell that is the sum of the squares of the differences
between the spreadsheet's Heading output cells and the actual headings
recorded.
Then, use the 'solver' tool to minimise this cell (ie zero since it is
the sum of squares) while varying the three track input fields.
It is a bit messy, but has rescued more than one flight data set.
Note.. I believe some GPS manufacturers label the 'Track' data field as
'Heading'. This does not help.
Thanks for hosting the paper and s'sheet on your site and for the plugs
along the way.
The NTPS variant is very interesting and if I recall correctly students
are frequently able to achieve very good results with it. Their paper
describing their method is (or at least was) available on their website.
Very readable.
Greg Lewis of the NTPS has also submitted changes to Appendix 9 of the
FAA's AC 23-8 (Pitot Static methods - not sure of the title)
incorporating the calculation.
Regards,
Doug
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> It looks like Bill simply took the average of the three ground
> speeds. Many people do that, but it doesn't give the right answer,
> unless there is no wind. The error is probably only a few mph, but
> if you are evaluating the effect of a minor performance improvement,
> then you need a method that has an error that is less than the amount
> of the speed increase from the perf improvement.
>
> Doug - I'm a big fan of your spreadsheet (which is available for
> download from my web site). I'm curious - please educate us on how
> to use it if the user has headings, and not tracks.
>
> Doug's method of calculating TAS from GPS data has the stamp of
> approval from the National Test Pilot School (although they made a
> useful mod to do four data runs, to get redundant data so errors
> would be noticed). I pointed them at it when I was on a refresher
> course there a couple of years ago, and they incorporated it into
> their set of standard performance methods.
>
> Doug's spreadsheet:
>
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/doug_gray/TASCALC.ZIP
>
> The NTPS version:
>
> http://www.ntps.edu/Files/GPS%20PEC.XLS
>
> My Flight Test Links section:
>
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/phplinks/index.php?PID=1
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Dan,
Sure sounds like your cutoff mixture isn't really cutting off...if it's
really sniffling fuel after every shutdown. I'm no expert at Bendix servos
by any stretch, but that's where I'd check/adjust first.
The purge valve definitely ensures that you're cutting fuel off prior to the
flow divider. It installs right next to the flow divider, and the fuel hose
that normally goes to the f.d. goes to the purve valve instead.
The purge valve requires a return line, which you can easily tee into a fuel
supply line upstream of the selector valve (I teed mine into the right side
supply line...I select the left tank when purging).
I use the purge valve to shut down, as my Airflow Performance injection is
designed such that when the mixture is pulled back to cutoff, there is still
a small amount of allowable fuel flow happening. The purge valve diverts
that fuel prior to reaching the flow divider, and you eliminate any fuel
from getting to the distribution lines or cylinders. It really helps hot
starts...even without using the purge as a true purge...which I rarely do.
Before complicating your system, I'd check into adjusting your Bendix
(presumably) servo so that it shuts down properly and doesn't sniffle. If
you can fix that, that's 99% of the battle.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
> Please help!
>
> The FAB air box blew up yesterday when I got a backfire trying to restart
my
> hot IO-360 (200 hp) engine. The engine floods every time it is shut down.
To
> clear the flooded condition, I opened the throttle and went to lean cutoff
> and cranked. Sometime during this starting sequence I heard a backfire,
and
> then the engine started. Later I noticed the air filter (K&N) was
wrinkled, and
> removed the cowling to find that the FAB air box had opened up at the
seams.
>
> I have the Lycoming "sniffle valve" installed, and it dribbles fuel. The
> sniffle valve is installed on a bracket about 6 inches aft of the hole in
the
> bottom of the plenum, and plumbed with 1/4 inch AN hardware in order to
clear the
> exhaust system.
>
> The fuel system is the kit that Vans sells for the IO-360. The engine
idles
> and runs fine in every other regard.
>
> It seems that opening the throttle may be the wrong thing to do, or is it?
I
> am new to this engine, and would appreciate any advice on how to start it
to
> prevent this from happening.
>
> Does a purge valve prevent this flooding? If so, where is it placed in
the
> fuel system? Where do I get one?
>
> Dan Hopper
> N766DH
> RV-7A (Flying 15 hours now)
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Jerry,
Before you do that, can you just test the coax for continuity from end to
end on the center conductor?
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Antenna question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
The antenna is a bent whip commant comm antenna that Van sells. Thanks for
the detailed information. I will try a new antenna.
Jerry Calvert
RV6
N296JC
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Antenna question
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> Depends on exact type of antenna, but in general the answer is a
resounding YES. The only exception would be if the antenna was fed by a
balun transformer with separate windings (not an autotransformer type) or is
it had a series capacitor in the feedline as part of a matching network.
For typical whip antennas for comm use, this arrangement is almost unheard
of, and the lack of continuity on the center conductor indicates you have
pinpointed the problem; something is loose or parted.
>
> This type of problem just cost me $250 "fixing" an un-broken transponder,
because a connection had broken in a feedline and I didn't bother to first
drill an access hole to test a hidden antenna for continuity as you have
done.
>
> -Bill B. RV-6A
> not really an engineer, but I play one on the ham bands occasionally
> do not archive
> In a message dated 7/20/2004 8:53:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Jerry
Calvert" <rv6@cox.net> writes:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
> >
> >Should the center female pin of the antenna connector have continuity
with the antenna whip? My base has continuity with the otter part of the
connector but the whip has continuity with nothing. I am having radio
problems and trying to determine if the antenna is the problem.
> >
> >Jerry Calvert
> >RV6
> >N296RV
> >
> >
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 7/21/04 10:05:20 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
dan@rvproject.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> Sure sounds like your cutoff mixture isn't really cutting off...if it's
> really sniffling fuel after every shutdown. I'm no expert at Bendix servos
> by any stretch, but that's where I'd check/adjust first.
>
I'll definitely check that out. When I had the airplane inspected he found
that the linkage was hitting the FAB before the lean stop, and I fixed it then.
I'll look again. The servo was overhauled when I bought the overhauled
engine, but that was 2 years ago. Unfortunately, I didn't preserve the servo like
I should have. It does have orange silicone diaphragms, etc.
Thanks for the detailed reply. I will keep a close watch on it for sniffles.
I'm not sure if it does it all the time or not.
Dan Hopper
N766DH
RV-7A (Flying 15 hours now)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Flightline Interiors at OSH |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Where will Abby be located.
Do not archive
Jim Thorne
RV 7A QB
CHD
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 09:22 PM 7/20/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Anglin <jlanglin44@earthlink.net>
>
>Isn't an oxygen system powered by a pressurized cylinder (if "powered" is
>the right term)?
My oxygen bottle has a gauge that reads to 3000 lbs. This is 'gauge
pressure'. Absolute pressure would be that minus the 15 or so lbs ambient
pressure here at El Paso de Robles (~800 feet MSL). So the absolute
pressure max is 2985 lbs. here. Climb to altitude or drive up to Tioga
Pass in the Sierra Nevada Range (9900+ ft) and the absolute pressure will
be higher by what? less than 15 lbs.
Right?
The oxygen bottle is very sturdy. Can we say the same for cans of freon or
propane bottles? Surely either can be hauled anywhere in the country in a car?
hal
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Prop Governor Settings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rv7maker@hotmail.com>
Gents,
I bought the MT hydraulic governor from Vans and specified my engine to have
a rear mounted gov. pad. However, in all actuality, I have a front mounted
pad.
1.) Will the difference in oil pressure front to back make a difference
in the way my governor operates with the factory setup?
2.) If it is erring to the side of high speed, how much is too much? I
imagine that 2705 would be fine but how about 2750.
Thanks in advance,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 Finishing
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up
>Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2004 08:02:47 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>Dan,
>
>Sure sounds like your cutoff mixture isn't really cutting off...if it's
>really sniffling fuel after every shutdown. I'm no expert at Bendix servos
>by any stretch, but that's where I'd check/adjust first.
>
>The purge valve definitely ensures that you're cutting fuel off prior to
>the
>flow divider. It installs right next to the flow divider, and the fuel
>hose
>that normally goes to the f.d. goes to the purve valve instead.
>
>The purge valve requires a return line, which you can easily tee into a
>fuel
>supply line upstream of the selector valve (I teed mine into the right side
>supply line...I select the left tank when purging).
>
>I use the purge valve to shut down, as my Airflow Performance injection is
>designed such that when the mixture is pulled back to cutoff, there is
>still
>a small amount of allowable fuel flow happening. The purge valve diverts
>that fuel prior to reaching the flow divider, and you eliminate any fuel
>from getting to the distribution lines or cylinders. It really helps hot
>starts...even without using the purge as a true purge...which I rarely do.
>
>Before complicating your system, I'd check into adjusting your Bendix
>(presumably) servo so that it shuts down properly and doesn't sniffle. If
>you can fix that, that's 99% of the battle.
>
>Best of luck,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: IO-360 FAB airbox blows up
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
> >
> > Please help!
> >
> > The FAB air box blew up yesterday when I got a backfire trying to
>restart
>my
> > hot IO-360 (200 hp) engine. The engine floods every time it is shut
>down.
>To
> > clear the flooded condition, I opened the throttle and went to lean
>cutoff
> > and cranked. Sometime during this starting sequence I heard a backfire,
>and
> > then the engine started. Later I noticed the air filter (K&N) was
>wrinkled, and
> > removed the cowling to find that the FAB air box had opened up at the
>seams.
> >
> > I have the Lycoming "sniffle valve" installed, and it dribbles fuel.
>The
> > sniffle valve is installed on a bracket about 6 inches aft of the hole
>in
>the
> > bottom of the plenum, and plumbed with 1/4 inch AN hardware in order to
>clear the
> > exhaust system.
> >
> > The fuel system is the kit that Vans sells for the IO-360. The engine
>idles
> > and runs fine in every other regard.
> >
> > It seems that opening the throttle may be the wrong thing to do, or is
>it?
>I
> > am new to this engine, and would appreciate any advice on how to start
>it
>to
> > prevent this from happening.
> >
> > Does a purge valve prevent this flooding? If so, where is it placed in
>the
> > fuel system? Where do I get one?
> >
> > Dan Hopper
> > N766DH
> > RV-7A (Flying 15 hours now)
> >
> >
>
>
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Actually, it's the other way around: Absolute
pressure is gauge pressure + ambient pressure. At see
level, if your gauge reads 3000, the absolute pressure
would be 3014.7. Gauge pressure is really
differential pressure between the gauge pressure port
and the outside pressure acting on the gauge body.
Also, atmospheric pressure drops apporox. 1 psi for
every 2343 feet of altitude, so at 10,000 feet,
atmospheric pressure would be about 4 psi less than
see level. Hardly enough difference to worry about.
Also, Freon in the bottle will be about 100 psia (85
psig) at 80 degrees, and 132 psia or 117 psig at 100
degrees.
--- Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol
> Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> My oxygen bottle has a gauge that reads to 3000 lbs.
> This is 'gauge
> pressure'. Absolute pressure would be that minus
> the 15 or so lbs ambient
> pressure here at El Paso de Robles (~800 feet MSL).
> So the absolute
> pressure max is 2985 lbs. here. Climb to altitude
> or drive up to Tioga
> Pass in the Sierra Nevada Range (9900+ ft) and the
> absolute pressure will
> be higher by what? less than 15 lbs.
>
> Right?
>
> The oxygen bottle is very sturdy. Can we say the
> same for cans of freon or
> propane bottles? Surely either can be hauled
> anywhere in the country in a car?
>
> hal
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flightline Interiors at OSH |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
Well, that is kind of dependant on how many of her interiors show up. I
think she was looking to show off her work to prospective customers. I
know that many people have called her to make arrangements to meet with
her, you might want to call her as well: 262-679-5934.
Jeff
Jim Thorne wrote:
>
>Where will Abby be located.
> Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | data needed: 8(A) max stick deflection |
--> RV-List message posted by: alan_products <alan_products@blarg.net>
Hi folks! For anyone out there with a flying -8(A), 10 minutes, and a SmartTool,
I and several others would like to beg a favor: what is the angular deflection
of the *stick* at maximum roll (ailerons at the stops)? And if you're feeling
especially kind, I betcha we'd love to have stick pitch info while you're out
there... No joy in archives (for an -8) or on the Yahoo -8 list.
I'm installing my EZ-Pilot servo to the control column and need to make sure that
I have plenty of freedom, but my wings aren't on yet and won't be for a while.
Thanks very much for your help!
Alan Erickson
8A,IO-360M1B6,AFP,2xLSE,WW200RV,IFR
prepping for finish
do not archive (I'll archive data)
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Flightline Interiors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" <don_mei@hotmail.com>
I recently purchased a set of seats from Abby a.k.a. Flightline Interiors
and I'd be happy to show them to anyone there, but there is only about a 30%
chance I'll make it to Osh at this time.
However I'd like to weigh in on my experience. First, the end product is
FAR FAR nicer than I could ever have imagined. The workmanship is
absolutely top notch. I had my seats made up like her Style C seats, with
leather in the tucked pattern. It is GORGEOUS.
In addition, the whole experience was very pleasant and professional.
Abby's communication was great.
Because Abby had never done an RV-4 before, there was more than a normal
amount of discussion required. I sent her my old seats, she sent me
templates, I sent her back another template.
The process was actually fun. In the end I now have very beautiful and very
comfortable seats in my RV-4.
I know there aren't a lot of '4 completions happening these days, but if you
have a '4 and the old seats are getting a bit worn, you may want to contact
Abby. She now has templates to make up seats for you.
Also, her prices were very reasonable considering the quality of the
workmanship. Although Abbys track record doesn't go back as far, I wouldn't
hesitate to put her up there with Stein and Avery as a vendor who produces
great stuff for the RV community.
Best regards,
Don Mei
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Flightline Interiors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Gang, it's not just the seats. If you go with the total package, Abby sends
you about 25+ panels that fit over, around, under and on top of all the
alum. parts in the cockpit. The attention to detail is beyond belief.
If you are holding out on seeing one of her interiors, hang it up and go
ahead with the order. Just my opinion, but Flightline Interiors is a
diamond in the rough. The interiors are that good.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
You know at first I didn't care about this thread as I am not doing it.
But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with altitude.
How does the inside of a pressurized and sealed canister know how high it
is anyway?
Maybe off the wall but curious now.
Tim Bryan
RV-6
Do Not Archive
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Actually, it's the other way around: Absolute
pressure is gauge pressure + ambient pressure. At see
level, if your gauge reads 3000, the absolute pressure
would be 3014.7. Gauge pressure is really
differential pressure between the gauge pressure port
and the outside pressure acting on the gauge body.
Also, atmospheric pressure drops apporox. 1 psi for
every 2343 feet of altitude, so at 10,000 feet,
atmospheric pressure would be about 4 psi less than
see level. Hardly enough difference to worry about.
Also, Freon in the bottle will be about 100 psia (85
psig) at 80 degrees, and 132 psia or 117 psig at 100
degrees.
--- Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol
> Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
> My oxygen bottle has a gauge that reads to 3000 lbs.
> This is 'gauge
> pressure'. Absolute pressure would be that minus
> the 15 or so lbs ambient
> pressure here at El Paso de Robles (~800 feet MSL).
> So the absolute
> pressure max is 2985 lbs. here. Climb to altitude
> or drive up to Tioga
> Pass in the Sierra Nevada Range (9900+ ft) and the
> absolute pressure will
> be higher by what? less than 15 lbs.
>
> Right?
>
> The oxygen bottle is very sturdy. Can we say the
> same for cans of freon or
> propane bottles? Surely either can be hauled
> anywhere in the country in a car?
>
> hal
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Re: UV Smooth Prime (fiberglass - Ugh!) |
--> RV-List message posted by: RICKRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 7/20/04 11:17:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sarg314@earthlink.net writes:
> I am finishing up my wheel fairings. Having used polyfiber's UV smooth
> Prime on my tail fairing (great stuff) I went to mix up a batch for the
> wheel fairings. Well after sitting on the shelf in my hot arizona garage
> for about a year and a half, the little bottle of hardener has turned
> into a rubbery solid. Still looks the same, but shakes like Jello.
>
> Does any one know if this stuff can be revitalized by adding in some
> (presumably long-ago-evaporated) solvent? Or is it toast? For that
> matter, is the smooth prime itself still usable or do I have to buy new?
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
>
>
Tom,
I had the same problem. I called Polyfiber and they sent me a new bottle of
activator, no charge. Man, I hate sanding that stuff but it does work well.
Lower cowl to go and that's it!!!
Rick McBride
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 11:48 AM 7/21/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
>But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
>pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
>Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with altitude.
Good example, tires! Yes, they do swell up as you climb because there is
less pressure on the outside of the tire or bottle.
Try climbing to altitude with a bag of potato chips and watch the bag
swell. (Don't eat a few first!)
I just learned that absolute pressure is gauge plus ambient pressure - so
as you climb the gauge will read a hair higher.
hal
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Ahhh....good question. In fact your tires will swell up or deflate with
altitude. Altitude directly relates to pressure, etc..
The best example is probably water, the ocean, & divers. release a bubble
at 500' below the water and it will be a speck. When it rises to the
surface it gets larger. The same phenomenon is apparent with high altitude
balloons. You'll notice that when those guys leave, the balloons look like
long, saggy sacks. As the altitude increases (pressure decreases), the
balloon expands. Ever seen the hollywood effects for what happens in
space?? All the gas that is saturated in your blood expands and "boils"
away, similar to the "bends" that divers get for the same reason.
You'll notice that airliners don't use "normal air" for their tires for a
couple reasons. They mainly use Nitrogen, as it has very little
co-efficient of expansion compared to normal air. The other is the fact
that it's dry and won't form ice crystals at altitude.
Here's one you can try yourself to prove the point. Blow up a small balloon
(the size of an apple) in your plane on the ground. Now fly up to 12K' and
see what size it is. Conversly, blow up a balloon at altitude then see what
size it is when it lands. The same thing happens to your drinking bottle at
altitude. If you close it when up high, it collapses when you get down low.
Just a few "fun facts".
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
You know at first I didn't care about this thread as I am not doing it.
But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with altitude.
How does the inside of a pressurized and sealed canister know how high it
is anyway?
Maybe off the wall but curious now.
Tim Bryan
RV-6
Do Not Archive
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Prop Governor Settings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Beene" <kbeene@citilink.com>
>
> I bought the MT hydraulic governor from Vans and specified my engine to
> have
> a rear mounted gov. pad. However, in all actuality, I have a front
> mounted
> pad.
>
> 1.) Will the difference in oil pressure front to back make a difference
> in the way my governor operates with the factory setup?
> 2.) If it is erring to the side of high speed, how much is too much? I
> imagine that 2705 would be fine but how about 2750.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV-7 Finishing
>
Ross,
I too have a front mounted governor and recently purchased the MT unit from
Van's. The governor is designed to maintain the engine RPM set by the
governor control and will adjust the pressure (within limits) to change the
prop pitch as necessary to maintain the set RPM.
If you just recently received the governor, it may be different from the one
on Van's installation drawing or even in the MT installation manual. My new
governor had a combined control and stop arm which was setup for the
accessory case mount. Van's drawing shows a unit with separate control and
stop arms which allow repositioning of the arm - a different arm position
is required for the forward mount position.
I contacted MT and was told how to reposition the combined arm. They said
the manual is currently being updated. It is necessary to cut the safety
wire on the six screws and loosen them. The inside barrel can then be
rotated as necessary to reposition the arm and the control stops together
for the forward mount.
If you have questions, I can send you a picture.
Ken
RV-6A N94KB
RV-4 FWF
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Hi Stein,
Good examples. I think I was hung up on the idea that a steel cylinder was
kinda well not like a balloon in that how does the outside pressure
translate through the steel and rigid cylinder walls? I suppose even metal
objects like a closed, sealed and solid metal container can still grow with
pressure but then wouldn't that be a really bad thing?
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Ahhh....good question. In fact your tires will swell up or deflate with
altitude. Altitude directly relates to pressure, etc..
The best example is probably water, the ocean, & divers. release a bubble
at 500' below the water and it will be a speck. When it rises to the
surface it gets larger. The same phenomenon is apparent with high altitude
balloons. You'll notice that when those guys leave, the balloons look like
long, saggy sacks. As the altitude increases (pressure decreases), the
balloon expands. Ever seen the hollywood effects for what happens in
space?? All the gas that is saturated in your blood expands and "boils"
away, similar to the "bends" that divers get for the same reason.
You'll notice that airliners don't use "normal air" for their tires for a
couple reasons. They mainly use Nitrogen, as it has very little
co-efficient of expansion compared to normal air. The other is the fact
that it's dry and won't form ice crystals at altitude.
Here's one you can try yourself to prove the point. Blow up a small balloon
(the size of an apple) in your plane on the ground. Now fly up to 12K' and
see what size it is. Conversly, blow up a balloon at altitude then see what
size it is when it lands. The same thing happens to your drinking bottle at
altitude. If you close it when up high, it collapses when you get down low.
Just a few "fun facts".
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
You know at first I didn't care about this thread as I am not doing it.
But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with altitude.
How does the inside of a pressurized and sealed canister know how high it
is anyway?
Maybe off the wall but curious now.
Tim Bryan
RV-6
Do Not Archive
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Sorry to burst your bubble. All gasses obey BOYLE'S LAW P 1 V 1 = P 2 V
2. The above formula is Boyle's Law, named after the British chemist Robert
Boyle (1627 - 1691).
Nitrogen, oxygen, even plain air all expand and contact at the same rate.
Nitrogen filling has other properties, but not a different co-efficient of
expansion. The other Law is Charles' law that says volume increases with
temperature referenced to absolute zero. A perfect gas wouldn't have any
volume at absolute zero. Unfortunately, all gases turn to liquid before that
point. - Old Chemistry Teacher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Ahhh....good question. In fact your tires will swell up or deflate with
> altitude. Altitude directly relates to pressure, etc..
>
> The best example is probably water, the ocean, & divers. release a bubble
> at 500' below the water and it will be a speck. When it rises to the
> surface it gets larger. The same phenomenon is apparent with high altitude
> balloons. You'll notice that when those guys leave, the balloons look
like
> long, saggy sacks. As the altitude increases (pressure decreases), the
> balloon expands. Ever seen the hollywood effects for what happens in
> space?? All the gas that is saturated in your blood expands and "boils"
> away, similar to the "bends" that divers get for the same reason.
>
> You'll notice that airliners don't use "normal air" for their tires for a
> couple reasons. They mainly use Nitrogen, as it has very little
> co-efficient of expansion compared to normal air. The other is the fact
> that it's dry and won't form ice crystals at altitude.
>
> Here's one you can try yourself to prove the point. Blow up a small
balloon
> (the size of an apple) in your plane on the ground. Now fly up to 12K'
and
> see what size it is. Conversly, blow up a balloon at altitude then see
what
> size it is when it lands. The same thing happens to your drinking bottle
at
> altitude. If you close it when up high, it collapses when you get down
low.
>
> Just a few "fun facts".
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
> You know at first I didn't care about this thread as I am not doing it.
> But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
> pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
> Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with
altitude.
> How does the inside of a pressurized and sealed canister know how high it
> is anyway?
>
> Maybe off the wall but curious now.
>
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6
> Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Stewart Warner 200hp oil cooler result |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To the List,
I just installed the new oil cooler in my RV-7A. I am happy to report that
the money was not wasted. The SW 11 row cooler outperforms the Niagara 13 row
cooler by about 20 degrees F. On a long climb at 25/25 oil temp only went to
210 F. where before it would reach 230 (or more if I would let it) with OAT
about the same -- about 85 degrees. The engine was just overhauled so the temp
should come down some more.
In all fairness, some of the reduction may be due to installing the wheel and
gear leg fairings.
At any rate, the hot oil problem is solved. I can now use those 200 ponies!
What a blast on takeoff! This airplane is so easy to fly, and easy to land,
too. If you're building one, keep at it, its worth every hour you are
spending on it.
Thanks to Dan Checkoway for the tip on the SW coolers.
Hope to have the time flown off in time for OSH.
Dan Hopper
N766DH
RV-7A (17.5 hours now)
In a message dated 7/14/04 6:15:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh
writes:
>
> Lucky,
>
> How timely for me!
>
> I have been flying my RV-7A with the 200 HP IO-360-C1E6 (like A1B6 now) for
> only a week in the hot summer in Indiana. The oil reaches 230 deg. F. in any
> kind of climb or even level flight at 24 inches/ 2400 RPM with OAT at 85
> deg. We are 850 ft. MSL here. I feel like I'm having to baby the engine to
> keep the oil temp down. The cyl. heads are OK -- never over 400 deg.
>
> The engine is not broken in yet. I have a firewall mounted 13 row cooler
> from Niagara Air Parts -- their part no. 20006A -- as in Greg Hales RV-8.
> (Search for Greg Hale using your browser for a picture.) My cooler sits at about
> a 45 degree angle to the firewall making the airflow into it not quite
> direct into the fins. I am feeding an aluminum shroud that I fabricated (which
is
> less than perfect) with 4" scat, but several people have looked at it and
> most say that it should work.
>
> I just ordered the 11 row 10611R Stewart Warner cooler from Pacific Oil
> Coolers, Inc. which is the same size as the 20006A. It will be a week before
it
> gets here from LA, but I'll post the results then.
>
> I really like having the oil cooler on the firewall as opposed to the baffle
> from a vibration standpoint -- even if I have to go to 5 inch scat!
>
> I have considered lowering the exit scoop an inch because of the poor
> airflow of the cluttered exit area with the 7A's nosegear tubing, and all kinds
of
> other things, blocking the exit area, but decided to try the SW cooler first.
>
> I would be very glad to hear from others having this problem and what they
> did about it. There's no use having 200 HP if you can't use it.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Flying -- 8 hrs.)
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: New engine and prop... long... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
Doug and Kevin,
It seems to me that since GPS does not give "heading" information, that
data would have had to come from the DG or compass, both of which are a
little suspect accuracy wise. So I would think it more prudent to make
another test flight and get the "track" data from the GPS. Or maybe I'm
missing something? : > )
Thanks for a another great tool and all the really usable info you guys
give us on a regular basis!
Dave Bristol
Doug Gray wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
>
>Kevin,
>
>I agree, why not eliminate the error if we can. A GPS and the simple
>calculation provides a remarkably precise tool to make real performance
>assessment.
>
>To make use of Heading rather than the GPS track data the solution is to
>create a new cell that is the sum of the squares of the differences
>between the spreadsheet's Heading output cells and the actual headings
>recorded.
>
>Then, use the 'solver' tool to minimise this cell (ie zero since it is
>the sum of squares) while varying the three track input fields.
>
>It is a bit messy, but has rescued more than one flight data set.
>
>Note.. I believe some GPS manufacturers label the 'Track' data field as
>'Heading'. This does not help.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan Brown <dan@familybrown.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Tim Bryan wrote:
| translate through the steel and rigid cylinder walls? I suppose even
metal
| objects like a closed, sealed and solid metal container can still grow
with
| pressure but then wouldn't that be a really bad thing?
Not really. Steel is elastic, just like rubber (though of course much
stronger), and the container will expand with increasing
pressure--though the expansion will be immeasurable under normal conditions.
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
~ -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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eZsW7Yl75h3ElVRGsuDkH2E=D8Xy
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
It would be a really bad thing if they expanded very much. However, if
you think that any cylinder does not expand when pressurized you are
wrong. All pressure vessels work just like balloons. That is, they
expand until the force of the pressurized gas on the internal walls of
the container is exactly balanced by the outside pressure plus the
resistance of the container to deformation at the pressure in question.
Balloons are very flexible and expand a lot more than a steel or
aluminum cylinder. If you put enough pressure in it, any pressure
vessel will do just what a balloon does with too much pressure.
Fortunately, all pressure vessels are actually able and designed to hold
far more pressure than they are rated for.
At the pressures in question relative to the original query, the
cylinder has the capability of handling a lot more pressure than what is
in it, so a minor change of a few psi going from sea level to some
reasonable altitude (or even to an unreasonable altitude) is negligible.
By the way, the "space effect" also includes the fact that the water in
your blood will boil in the vacuum of space, so the special effects are
due to the dissolved gases (relatively minor effect) and the boiling
water (relatively major). Of course, as with all hollywood effects, it
is exaggerated for effect!
And, dry nitrogen has exactly the same coefficient of expansion as any
other dry gas so the reason airlines use dry nitrogen in their tires has
nothing to do with a reduction in change with temperature. The reason
they use it is that it is dry, contains no oxygen (is inert) and is
readily available (compared to other dry gases, including air).
Dick Tasker, RV9A #90573
Tim Bryan wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
>Hi Stein,
>
>Good examples. I think I was hung up on the idea that a steel cylinder was
>kinda well not like a balloon in that how does the outside pressure
>translate through the steel and rigid cylinder walls? I suppose even metal
>objects like a closed, sealed and solid metal container can still grow with
>pressure but then wouldn't that be a really bad thing?
>Tim
>
>-------Original Message-------
>
>From: rv-list@matronics.com
>Date: 07/21/04 15:45:54
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>Ahhh....good question. In fact your tires will swell up or deflate with
>altitude. Altitude directly relates to pressure, etc..
>
>The best example is probably water, the ocean, & divers. release a bubble
>at 500' below the water and it will be a speck. When it rises to the
>surface it gets larger. The same phenomenon is apparent with high altitude
>balloons. You'll notice that when those guys leave, the balloons look like
>long, saggy sacks. As the altitude increases (pressure decreases), the
>balloon expands. Ever seen the hollywood effects for what happens in
>space?? All the gas that is saturated in your blood expands and "boils"
>away, similar to the "bends" that divers get for the same reason.
>
>You'll notice that airliners don't use "normal air" for their tires for a
>couple reasons. They mainly use Nitrogen, as it has very little
>co-efficient of expansion compared to normal air. The other is the fact
>that it's dry and won't form ice crystals at altitude.
>
>Here's one you can try yourself to prove the point. Blow up a small balloon
>(the size of an apple) in your plane on the ground. Now fly up to 12K' and
>see what size it is. Conversly, blow up a balloon at altitude then see what
>size it is when it lands. The same thing happens to your drinking bottle at
>altitude. If you close it when up high, it collapses when you get down low.
>
>Just a few "fun facts".
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
> You know at first I didn't care about this thread as I am not doing it.
>But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
>pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
>Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with altitude.
> How does the inside of a pressurized and sealed canister know how high it
>is anyway?
>
>Maybe off the wall but curious now.
>
>Tim Bryan
>RV-6
>Do Not Archive
>
>
Message 31
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|
"RV-8@yahoogroups.com" <RV-8@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | Camping in Vintage Camping in Oshkosh |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
This is a heads up for all who would like to continue camping in the
ORIGINAL showplane camping area by vintage planes.
Antique/classic/vintage has informed us that as a general rule only
vintage airplanes can camp in that area. homebuilds will have to go to
the *NEW* homebuild area, west of the RV parking area.
only *pre-approved* non-vintage airplanes will be allowed. At least that
is what we, the 'north-point crew' have een told.
Ya'all read my buddy Jeff's article in the RVator on signs, signals,
etc. If not, please do. If you do NOT have a readable sign, and sticky
notes in pencil behind the colored canopy do not count as a sign, count
on being stopped at about *every* intersection.
For those who are 'old timers' and have parked in the rv area before,
know that the taxiway leading up to the RV area and now the new
homebuilt/showplane camping is only a ONE_WAY taxiway.
This means that if traffic is en-route on the taxi way we have to not
only hold you but also *STAGE* you at the entry to the warbird area.
This to prevent a mexican stand-off at the intersection with Papa 1.
Read about the EAA PECKING ORDER in the RVator.
Please, please, when we direct you in the throat of the warbird area by
the trimoter, turn into the throat and make a 180 degree turn so you
face south again. Unless you fly in nigerian warbird RV6 colors you
won't be welcome in warbirds. Hopefully we will be able to accomoate
you as soon as possible.
Gert
p.s.
Did I mention yet to bring yer 8x11 sign..facing the orange vests...the
one in the NOTAMs....For several years now, the FAA folks have joked
with us about starting NOTAM checks, let's hope it stays a joke. Last
year one of them stood at north point doing an informal count of lack of
signs.....he left shaking his head in despair....I have seen the feds
follow at least 2 airplanes to their parking spots for gross neglect of
following hand signals, almost running over an orange vest in each
instance did not help their course..., neither airplane was an RV of
course, but....have a copy in the airplane.....ya never know...
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
It's also what happens inside your altimeter. :-)
Tim Bryan wrote:
> Good examples. I think I was hung up on the idea that a steel cylinder was
> kinda well not like a balloon in that how does the outside pressure
> translate through the steel and rigid cylinder walls? I suppose even metal
> objects like a closed, sealed and solid metal container can still grow with
> pressure but then wouldn't that be a really bad thing?
It can range from not good to very bad.
Scuba tanks, for example, have a pressure relief valve, a one-time valve
that's designed to blow if the tank's pressure differential gets
dangerously high. I've heard stories from older dive masters about
listening to the valves blow when people left their tanks in the bright
sun for too long. That's actually a very good safety feature, because if
the valve stem were to blow out of the top of the tank, it could become
an air-powered missile. (They train divers in the safe handling of scuba
tanks for exactly that reason: you don't want a tank falling over and
having the valve stem bang the side of a park bench, for example.)
What happens to a tank of freon probably depends on how they've made the
tank and how much freon it contains.
- Jeff
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
I believe nitrogen is used (at least over the last 10-20 yrs) in order to
help supress any fire that may develop on wheels with brakes. A couple of
crashes were caused or contributed to by wheel well fires (Saudi Arabia,
Mexico). Aother reason is that's it's usually dry and doesn't promote
corrosion. Besides, the bottles don't seem like they'd be too hard to tote
around in a truck doing something like jet maintenance.
Back to the original question. IMO, I don't believe there'd be a problem
carrying something like a propane or refrigerant bottle. That's all
assuming it's in good condition and you're not operating it up within 10-15
lbs of the burst pressure!
do not archive
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
>Sorry to burst your bubble. All gasses obey BOYLE'S LAW P 1 V 1 = P 2 V
>2. The above formula is Boyle's Law, named after the British chemist Robert
>Boyle (1627 - 1691).
>
>Nitrogen, oxygen, even plain air all expand and contact at the same rate.
>Nitrogen filling has other properties, but not a different co-efficient of
>expansion. The other Law is Charles' law that says volume increases with
>temperature referenced to absolute zero. A perfect gas wouldn't have any
>volume at absolute zero. Unfortunately, all gases turn to liquid before
>that
>point. - Old Chemistry Teacher
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
> >
> > Ahhh....good question. In fact your tires will swell up or deflate with
> > altitude. Altitude directly relates to pressure, etc..
> >
> > The best example is probably water, the ocean, & divers. release a
>bubble
> > at 500' below the water and it will be a speck. When it rises to the
> > surface it gets larger. The same phenomenon is apparent with high
>altitude
> > balloons. You'll notice that when those guys leave, the balloons look
>like
Message 34
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| Subject: | carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Of course you are correct Mr.Galley, but one must clarify (and make everyone
else who reads this sick)!
Boyle's Law, Charles Lay, Pressure Law, Avogadros Law, et.al, all are
naturally a fact. That being said, they only are scientifically applicable
at a 100% level to "ideal gases". Therefore trying to apply Boyle's Law &
Charle's Law (Lussac's Law) in Combination with the Pressure Law give you
the "The General Gas Equation (P1V1/ T1 = P2V2/T2)" or the "Ideal Gas
Equation (pv=nRT)". Those two equations take into account both temperature
and pressure as variables. When looking at Boyles law you are 100% correct
in relation to pressures and expansion - point to CY!
Before everyone get's too sick on equations, I'll put the laws as they are
in english below:
Boyles Law: "At constant temperature, the volume occupied by a fixed amount
of gas is inversely proportional to its pressure."
Charle's (Lussac's Law): "The volume of a given mass of a gas kept at
constant pressure increases 1/273 of its volume at 0 C for each degree rise
in temperature."
Now, if you take the laws separately your statements are 100% true. That
being said, neither the temeperature, pressure, moles (qty), etc.. are
perfectly constant, and whilst doing the comparision of a "relatively" ideal
gas (nitrogen) with normal air (mixture of gases), you'll actually find they
do behave differently in regards to the above laws when applied to aicraft
tires, altitude, temperature & pressure. If normal air were a pure gas, of
course this whole discussion would be moot and I could give you the whole
point on merit alone, but....normal air as we breath it rarely stays at 100%
gaseus state at the high altitudes, as some of it condenses and no longer
remains a gas - the chemical makeup of the "gaseous" air inside the tire
actually changes. Naturally this is not a function of external pressure,
but moreover temperature, which is why we can't take either law by itself
and apply it to aircraft tires - I ought to have known better!
In the end, you're more right than me, but I just couldn't let it die. Of
course the biggest reasons for Nitrogen in aircraft tires are to provide an
inert gas during braking (no combustable gasses to explode) and a huge
decrease in corrosion of the tire and wheel itself, which O2 is a huge
enemy.
Anyway, how 'bout we put this one to bed and get back to airplanes. I'm no
Chemistry teacher, but have a minor in it form College too many years ago to
remember everything accurately, except that college chemistry sucked a lot
more than high school chemistry (which was actually fun)!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Do Not Archive - too much totally useless information!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cgalley
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Sorry to burst your bubble. All gasses obey BOYLE'S LAW P 1 V 1 = P 2 V
2. The above formula is Boyle's Law, named after the British chemist Robert
Boyle (1627 - 1691).
Nitrogen, oxygen, even plain air all expand and contact at the same rate.
Nitrogen filling has other properties, but not a different co-efficient of
expansion. The other Law is Charles' law that says volume increases with
temperature referenced to absolute zero. A perfect gas wouldn't have any
volume at absolute zero. Unfortunately, all gases turn to liquid before that
point. - Old Chemistry Teacher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
Mount them under the wings, valve facing aft. That way, if they do blow,
they could at least give you a boost for a second.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <rv-j@moriarti.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Cours <rv-j@moriarti.org>
>
> It's also what happens inside your altimeter. :-)
>
> Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> > Good examples. I think I was hung up on the idea that a steel cylinder
was
> > kinda well not like a balloon in that how does the outside pressure
> > translate through the steel and rigid cylinder walls? I suppose even
metal
> > objects like a closed, sealed and solid metal container can still grow
with
> > pressure but then wouldn't that be a really bad thing?
>
> It can range from not good to very bad.
>
> Scuba tanks, for example, have a pressure relief valve, a one-time valve
> that's designed to blow if the tank's pressure differential gets
> dangerously high. I've heard stories from older dive masters about
> listening to the valves blow when people left their tanks in the bright
> sun for too long. That's actually a very good safety feature, because if
> the valve stem were to blow out of the top of the tank, it could become
> an air-powered missile. (They train divers in the safe handling of scuba
> tanks for exactly that reason: you don't want a tank falling over and
> having the valve stem bang the side of a park bench, for example.)
>
> What happens to a tank of freon probably depends on how they've made the
> tank and how much freon it contains.
>
> - Jeff
>
>
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett <perfeng@3rivers.net>
Okay guys,
We've covered Boyles Law, some basic physics as they relate to gases and
pressurized vessels. So I'll try to answer the original question and
throw my two cents in.
First, all pressurized vessels of any kind are viewed as a regulated
commodity by the DOT. They may also be considered a Restricted
Commodity depending on the product or residue of product the vessel
contains. Most Freon is considered to be in both categories. The
regulations vary slightly depending on what type of freon you are
dealing with but the point is there are reasons for the controls. Call
Fed-Ex or UPS and ask to ship a freon cylinder by air and you'll get a
resounding NO WAY! Regulations won't allow it.
That being said, lets look at R-134 Freon. R-134 @50 degrees cylinder
temp exerts 50 PSI. At 159 degrees cylinder temp it exerts 300 PSI.
The key point here is the freon cylinder is only rated at @750PSI burst
pressure and has no burst disc. The cylinders are designed for one time
use.
O2 cylinders are rated and hydro tested to 5000 PSI. When these
cylinders are tested and expansion is over 6% of it's volume it is
condemned. Comparing freon vessels to high pressure vessels is apples
to oranges.
So back to the Freon cylinder, the key element in deciding if it would
be safe is not atmospheric pressure but rather the temp of the product
as it's being transported. You strap that 30 pounder in the front seat
on a sunny day for a several hour flight and you might have an unusual
reason to declare an IFE. I've had knee boards sitting on the seat for
an hour or so and it was so hot I couldn't touch it. That's a little
hotter than 159 degrees.
Most larger auto supply houses stock and sell R-134 along with some of
the Temp supply houses. If your talking R-12 ( that is now well over
$1000.00 for a 30 # cylinder) and your getting a great price then
consider the factors of the product before you just throw it in the
plane and go!
Just my opinion and you got it for what you paid...
Jim Duckett, N708JD
Performance Engineering
Please do not archive!
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Stewart Warner 200hp oil cooler result |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Thanks for the report. I have two oil coolers coming from Van's. I think
I'll use the new large cooler from positech they market for the 200 hp/hot
climate environment.
Anyone else using the new largest size oil cooler from Positech?
Lucky
In a message dated 7/21/2004 7:42:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
To the List,
I just installed the new oil cooler in my RV-7A. I am happy to report that
the money was not wasted. The SW 11 row cooler outperforms the Niagara 13
row
cooler by about 20 degrees F. On a long climb at 25/25 oil temp only went to
210 F. where before it would reach 230 (or more if I would let it) with OAT
about the same -- about 85 degrees. The engine was just overhauled so the
temp
should come down some more.
In all fairness, some of the reduction may be due to installing the wheel and
gear leg fairings.
At any rate, the hot oil problem is solved. I can now use those 200 ponies!
What a blast on takeoff! This airplane is so easy to fly, and easy to land,
too. If you're building one, keep at it, its worth every hour you are
spending on it.
Thanks to Dan Checkoway for the tip on the SW coolers.
Hope to have the time flown off in time for OSH.
Dan Hopper
N766DH
RV-7A (17.5 hours now)
In a message dated 7/14/04 6:15:11 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh
writes:
>
> Lucky,
>
> How timely for me!
>
> I have been flying my RV-7A with the 200 HP IO-360-C1E6 (like A1B6 now) for
> only a week in the hot summer in Indiana. The oil reaches 230 deg. F. in
any
> kind of climb or even level flight at 24 inches/ 2400 RPM with OAT at 85
> deg. We are 850 ft. MSL here. I feel like I'm having to baby the engine
to
> keep the oil temp down. The cyl. heads are OK -- never over 400 deg.
>
> The engine is not broken in yet. I have a firewall mounted 13 row cooler
> from Niagara Air Parts -- their part no. 20006A -- as in Greg Hales RV-8.
> (Search for Greg Hale using your browser for a picture.) My cooler sits at
about
> a 45 degree angle to the firewall making the airflow into it not quite
> direct into the fins. I am feeding an aluminum shroud that I fabricated
(which is
> less than perfect) with 4" scat, but several people have looked at it and
> most say that it should work.
>
> I just ordered the 11 row 10611R Stewart Warner cooler from Pacific Oil
> Coolers, Inc. which is the same size as the 20006A. It will be a week
before it
> gets here from LA, but I'll post the results then.
>
> I really like having the oil cooler on the firewall as opposed to the
baffle
> from a vibration standpoint -- even if I have to go to 5 inch scat!
>
> I have considered lowering the exit scoop an inch because of the poor
> airflow of the cluttered exit area with the 7A's nosegear tubing, and all
kinds of
> other things, blocking the exit area, but decided to try the SW cooler
first.
>
> I would be very glad to hear from others having this problem and what they
> did about it. There's no use having 200 HP if you can't use it.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Flying -- 8 hrs.)
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | WD-421 Aileron Bellcrank bushing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
Striving for perfection now!
WD-421 Aileron Bell crank bushing, DWG 15a
I have reamed the brass bushing with 0.250 reamer, polished the AN4-32a bolt
with 600 sandpaper, lubricated with Bolube, and while the bolt will go
through the bushing it is apparently bent slightly as it will not rotate
freely. Both of the bell crank bushings have this problem.
Any suggestions short of ordering several AN4-32a bolts in the hope of
getting 2 that are straight?
Thanks,
Allen Fulmer
RV7 Wings
N808AF reserved
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
I am looking for a picture of the installation of the RV7A rudder tip.
Actually looking for a picture of the bottom tip. I am having trouble
visualizing what needs to get cut and where to cut it. If I could look at
someone else's it would help me to decide how to approach this one. I have
done all the other empennage tips with no problems, but this one is a real
pain, and Vans gives no guidance in the plans! Please e-mail me at the
above address or post a link if you have your picture online.
Thanks in advance...
Travis in Las Vegas, NV
RV7A - Empennage done (waiting on wings and fuse)
---
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Old Chemistry Teacher:
My old flight instructor is now flying a Beachjet for a construction company.
He tells me that they put nitrogen (I believe that's the right gas) in the
tires to deal with the relative low pressures at altitude. Why would nitrogen
be better suited for this application than regular air?
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 41
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| Subject: | RV4 Center Console Pictures |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
Looking for idea on a center panel for mounting the radio stack and other
things. Anybody got any good pictures for an RV-4 installation please let
me know.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: WD-421 Aileron Bellcrank bushing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Allen,
You're gonna want to replace that bolt you sanded ASAP! You most likely
removed the cad plating, and the bolt can now rust. The intent is not for
the bushing to rotate around the bolt -- rather the bellcrank rotates around
the bushing. To make this perfectly clear...the bolt & bushing should
remain STATIONARY with respect to the plane and each other. This is the
case for aileron bellcranks, control stick pivots, etc.
(Note: I'm speaking in terms of RV-7 and RV-8 wings only...I can't speak for
the design on other models, but I presume they're similar.)
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: WD-421 Aileron Bellcrank bushing
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer@charter.net>
>
> Striving for perfection now!
>
> WD-421 Aileron Bell crank bushing, DWG 15a
>
> I have reamed the brass bushing with 0.250 reamer, polished the AN4-32a
bolt
> with 600 sandpaper, lubricated with Bolube, and while the bolt will go
> through the bushing it is apparently bent slightly as it will not rotate
> freely. Both of the bell crank bushings have this problem.
>
> Any suggestions short of ordering several AN4-32a bolts in the hope of
> getting 2 that are straight?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Allen Fulmer
> RV7 Wings
> N808AF reserved
>
>
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Nitrogen is inert. Doesn't cause corrosion nor support combustion. Oxygen
does both. There are those that feel that 21% oxygen (air) is bad and will
do both at elevated temperatures. Air may also have some moisture. It will
promote corrosion. Since Pure Nitrogen is dry and can't oxidize it is felt
that this is better in high pressure tires that get hot under braking like
the airlines use.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
> Old Chemistry Teacher:
>
> My old flight instructor is now flying a Beachjet for a construction
company.
> He tells me that they put nitrogen (I believe that's the right gas) in the
> tires to deal with the relative low pressures at altitude. Why would
nitrogen
> be better suited for this application than regular air?
>
> do not archive
>
> --
> Jamie D. Painter
> RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
> http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
Message 44
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| Subject: | carrying pressurized cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cammie Patch" <cammie@sunvalley.net>
Reminds me of the Pepsi I cracked open at 12,500' today. Not such a nice new
Cirrus now.......
Cammie
do not archive
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne
<kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 11:48 AM 7/21/2004, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
>But then out of curiousity I got to thinking. If the bottle is already
>pressurized, why does it care inside the canister what the altitude?
>Temperature aside, my tires don't seem to swell up or deflate with
altitude.
Good example, tires! Yes, they do swell up as you climb because there is
less pressure on the outside of the tire or bottle.
Try climbing to altitude with a bag of potato chips and watch the bag
swell. (Don't eat a few first!)
I just learned that absolute pressure is gauge plus ambient pressure - so
as you climb the gauge will read a hair higher.
hal
Message 45
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| Subject: | Pressure Trivia (was carrying pressurized cylinders) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Some related trivia (do not archive):
1. The ideal gas law does not apply precisely to any gas, although it is close
for most gasses. There is a property called the compressibility coefficient
(Z=PR/RT) that describes how each gas differs from the ideal. Z is very close
to 1 for all gasses at atmospheric pressure, but is not equal to 1 for any gas.
(They don't seem to teach this in high school chemistry, you have to study
chemistry in university to find out.)
2. Auto racers sometimes use nitrogen in their tires to get a more predictable
pressure rise as the tire heats up. (This is critical to optimum handling with
a racing tire, where a few tenths of a PSI makes enough difference to be
noticed by the driver.) Since air contains a variable amount of water vapour,
its Z also varies, and the pressure rise is less predictable. However, the
effect of this is small, and many racers don't do it. (They also now have
regulators for each tire, making the exercise unnecessary.)
3. If you are exposed to vacuum your blood won't boil. Your blood vessels are
strong and stiff enough to maintain blood pressure in a vacuum, as several
astronauts and cosmonauts have discovered in various incidents. You will,
however, loose consciousness more quickly than you do by holding your breath,
because you can't keep any oxygen in your lungs.
4. I once had an aerosol can of shaving cream rupture in the (non-pressurized)
baggage compartment of a jet. I don't remember what altitude I was flying at
-- probably FL350 or so.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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