---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/05/04: 35 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 2. 05:37 AM - Re: Oregon Aero Seats (Rick Galati) 3. 06:03 AM - RTV on canopy (Ted Hultzapple) 4. 06:09 AM - RV-10 Engines (was Oshkosh) (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 5. 06:24 AM - Re:Taking apart a rivet gun (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 6. 06:34 AM - Re: RTV on canopy (Larry Bowen) 7. 06:47 AM - Re: Re: Oregon Aero Seats (Greg Young) 8. 07:05 AM - Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Bill VonDane) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: Oshkosh (James E. Clark) 10. 07:45 AM - Re: Taking apart a rivet gun (Jerry Isler) 11. 08:30 AM - Off-Topic: Airport Improvements (Matthew Brandes) 12. 08:58 AM - Re: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements (Cory Emberson) 13. 09:39 AM - Re: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements (Dan DeNeal) 14. 09:52 AM - Re: Re: Oregon Aero Seats (Don Diehl) 15. 10:16 AM - Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Bill VonDane) 16. 10:16 AM - Re: Slider canopy rails (Mike Robertson) 17. 10:20 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Mike Robertson) 18. 10:26 AM - Re: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements (Mike Robertson) 19. 10:39 AM - Re: Need a rivet buzzhead (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 20. 11:18 AM - RV-10 Engine suitability. (AndrewTR30@aol.com) 21. 12:03 PM - Garmin GPS for Sale (Donald Mei) 22. 12:21 PM - Re: RV-10 Engine suitability. (Condrey, Bob (US SSA)) 23. 01:41 PM - Re: Need a rivet buzzhead (Hal / Carol Kempthorne) 24. 01:47 PM - Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Greg Young) 25. 01:50 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Bill VonDane) 26. 02:14 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Scott Schmidt) 27. 02:30 PM - Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Greg Young) 28. 02:43 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Scott Bilinski) 29. 02:59 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Bartrim, Todd) 30. 03:41 PM - Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? (Kevin Horton) 31. 04:32 PM - Re: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? (linn walters) 32. 05:03 PM - Re: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? (Sam Buchanan) 33. 06:00 PM - Re: [RV10] Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 34. 08:11 PM - Re:RTV on canopy (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 35. 11:01 PM - Re: Oshkosh (Jeff Point) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:05 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 8/4/04 9:22:19 PM Central Daylight Time, jpoint@mindspring.com writes: > Jeff Point > RV-6- The last RV to leave Oshkosh > Milwaukee WI >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank Jeff and the rest of the volunteers herding RVs in and out of the corral all week- GREAT JOB GUYS! Anybody get a final count on RV attendance? Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:54 AM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: Re: Oregon Aero Seats --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati I purchased my seats last year after visiting their booth at AirVenture 03. First Oregon Aero sent one foam core to try out in my cockpit and after closing the canopy with headsets on etc., I decided I wanted the core elevated 2 inches and also wanted the side bolsters built up to give the seat(s) a more contoured look. I ordered the foam cores covered in Cassini leather using french stitching, and with matching stick boots. The core was sent back with my notes and despite a 6 week delivery promise, the order did take about 10 weeks. No complaints about the comfort and quality of the product which is top notch but alas, all this come with a price....1.1K per seat. I think the leather Oregon Aero uses is chemically treated to be fire resistant and is FAA approved, so that certainly would contribute to the cost. Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" I tried the Oregon Aero seats for my RV6A at Oshkosh and am interested...I got an e-mail response from OE re upholstery availability, but somehow deleted the message without fully digesting it. Can someone who has recently purchased their seats tell me what they cost you with OE's upholstery? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:03:27 AM PST US From: "Ted Hultzapple" Subject: RV-List: RTV on canopy --> RV-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple" Is it safe to use silicon based RTV sealer on the canopy. Will it craze? If not, what should I be using? Ted ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:42 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Engines (was Oshkosh) From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" The first prototype (powered by a 260 HP Lyc IO-540) was there. The second factory plane is powered by a 210 HP TCM IO-360-ES and is not yet flying. Folks at Vans said probably late August or so for that one. During the RV-10 forum it was stated that it wasn't practical to go with an O-470 or larger TCM engine due to the engineering required. When pressed, Van said that it just wasn't in the cards. Bob RV-10 #40105 --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > Jeff is correct, only the original 10 made it. I believe the second one is O-470 powered, haven't heard of a 360 powered one in the works. Jeff Point RV-6- The last RV to leave Oshkosh Milwaukee WI ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:04 AM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Taking apart a rivet gun --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com Taking Keries suggestion a little farther; give it a big shot of Marvel Mystery Oil and exercise it a bit. That is the only oil I use in my rivet guns and I like to use more than a few drops. I've built two RV-4's and helped on several others with them,so far. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: RTV on canopy From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I used Lexel. It seems to work well. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Ted Hultzapple said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ted Hultzapple" > > > Is it safe to use silicon based RTV sealer on the canopy. Will it craze? > If > not, what should I be using? > Ted > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:12 AM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Oregon Aero Seats --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > price....1.1K per seat. I think the leather Oregon Aero uses > is chemically treated to be fire resistant and is FAA > approved, so that certainly would contribute to the cost. Not really. Your costs lie elsewhere. Leather will inherently pass the burn tests as will 100% wool. No treatment required. Greg ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:42 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hi all... With all the discussions on strobe power supplies going on lately, and with the emails I received with questions about my power paks, I got some info from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and the Whelen power supplies) different from the automotive power supplies that are available... As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and build my power paks, and so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK and their most popular auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more detailed info if necessary... "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors than the standard XPAK604. The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage level. The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the AVIPAK to deliver much higher energy discharges to the strobe heads. The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5 Joules. The AVIPAK can deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge! The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the input connection. This makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will reduce RFI." As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are significant differences... Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in power output, although mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH more modern design to them to include the technology in the discharge capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse polarity protection, over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube de-ionization circuit to prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled double and quadruple flash patterns, and input surge protection... I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get a better power pak... ;) Hope this helps some of you that had questions.....oh, and soon I will have individual power supplies for those of you that don't like the single power supply configuration... Thanks! -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:02 AM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Let me publicly state my gratitude to Jeff Point for all his support to the RV crowd in general and to me in particular at Oshkosh. He and his "sidekicks" we always RIGHT ON THE SPOT in moving and assisting us. I had the chance to come in (and one time fly with) Falcon Flight and Team RV (more on that later). Jeff and his team made a point to make sure that we and other RVs were given the best of treatment and always in a cordial manner. He went out of his way to help me check my radios that got drenched from the rainstorm (tip-up closed but not SEALED against the rain). He even helped with my little "problem" on taxi out for the flight. (no need to repeat what that was Jeff ;-) ). And when a couple of P51's were pulled out in from of the "Flight of 12" RVs, he and his team were visibly disgusted that someone had "cut in front" of **his team**. Finally, as I prepared to leave, one of his crew members stopped by and waited, to make sure all was OK and cleared my out. I flet like I was among family. I guess in fact I was. My hat is off to you Jeff and the crew. James N996PJ "Papa Juliette" p.s. And he flew his new RV in to OSH as well. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Point > Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 10:18 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > > Jeff is correct, only the original 10 made it. I believe the second one > is O-470 powered, haven't heard of a 360 powered one in the works. > > Jeff Point > RV-6- The last RV to leave Oshkosh > Milwaukee WI > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:13 AM PST US From: "Jerry Isler" Subject: Re: RV-List: Taking apart a rivet gun --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Isler" I've got a Taylor brand 2X rivet gun that had the same problem. The trigger mechanism is external to the air supply on mine so even placing a quart of oil in the air line will not fix your problem. The trigger on mine had a poor finish on it that caused it to bind in the bore where it slid in and out as you pressed and released the trigger. I believe it had a sharp edge that caused the binding. You could get in position to rivet and squeeze with all your might and the trigger would not move. If yours is a Taylor, remove the roll pin that holds the trigger in place and pull the trigger out. Polish the trigger with some fine grit sandpaper, do a trial fit to check for binding and repeat until it does not stick. Re-install the trigger and oil. It worked for me.........until I dropped the gun and broke the d--- trigger completely off. Jerry Isler Donalsonville, Ga. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Mack" Subject: RV-List: Taking apart a rivet gun > --> RV-List message posted by: "Don Mack" > > The trigger on my 3x rivet gun (generic brand) keeps sticking. Makes riveting a challenge. Any ideas how I can take it apart to clean/fix it? > > Don Mack - don@dmack.net - www.dmack.net > do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:30:26 AM PST US From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" I've recently moved to a small (pop: 12,000) rural community that has a somewhat neglected airport. The city has taken advantage of FAA grants to improve the runway and taxiways but hasn't spent any money in 40 years to making improvements to the terminal facilities and hangars. The airport has 4 T-hangars and one community hangar that holds 7 or 8 planes (one door!) The FBO office is 600 sf! I'd like to correspond with anyone offline who has some experience in dealing with City Commissions/Goverment in getting them to understand the value the airport brings to the city and to make necessary improvements. Thanks. Apologize for the off-topic post but there is a wealth of knowledge and experience in the RV community that I'd like to take advantage of! Matthew Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:09 AM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements --> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Hi Matthew, I have a little experience (from a contracting point of view - I do their minutes) with several planning commissions in the Bay Area and would be happy to share what I've heard. I've never appeared before them, but have heard plenty. I'm on deadline with one of them right now, but if you don't hear from me by tomorrow, just nudge me. :-) best, Cory -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes Subject: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" I've recently moved to a small (pop: 12,000) rural community that has a somewhat neglected airport. The city has taken advantage of FAA grants to improve the runway and taxiways but hasn't spent any money in 40 years to making improvements to the terminal facilities and hangars. The airport has 4 T-hangars and one community hangar that holds 7 or 8 planes (one door!) The FBO office is 600 sf! I'd like to correspond with anyone offline who has some experience in dealing with City Commissions/Goverment in getting them to understand the value the airport brings to the city and to make necessary improvements. Thanks. Apologize for the off-topic post but there is a wealth of knowledge and experience in the RV community that I'd like to take advantage of! Matthew Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:59 AM PST US From: Dan DeNeal Subject: Re: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements --> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal You can also contact AOPA. If you are not a member you can surely find one around the airport and get them involved. AOPA can help you in assisting with all the numbers!! Dan DeNeal rv6a Do Not Archive Matthew Brandes wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" I've recently moved to a small (pop: 12,000) rural community that has a somewhat neglected airport. The city has taken advantage of FAA grants to improve the runway and taxiways but hasn't spent any money in 40 years to making improvements to the terminal facilities and hangars. The airport has 4 T-hangars and one community hangar that holds 7 or 8 planes (one door!) The FBO office is 600 sf! I'd like to correspond with anyone offline who has some experience in dealing with City Commissions/Goverment in getting them to understand the value the airport brings to the city and to make necessary improvements. Thanks. Apologize for the off-topic post but there is a wealth of knowledge and experience in the RV community that I'd like to take advantage of! Matthew Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:21 AM PST US From: Don Diehl Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oregon Aero Seats --> RV-List message posted by: Don Diehl Oregon Areo does first rate work, but it's priced accordingly. I made my own for my RV-4 for a fraction of their cost. Being very short in the torso, I started with a block of polyurethane then added one inch sheets of Confor Foam (formerly Temperfoam) until I could just get the canopy closed over my headset. Used medium density for height and contour, then low density for the top layer. I had the finished block upholstered in wool by a local shop. In cold weather I have to hunch down a bit until the foam molds to my buns, but the ride is most comfortable. Don Diehl N28EW 260 happy hours Do not archive. > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:03 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... rv-8@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hey Charlie... Actually that's not exactly true... I just talked to my Nova Engineer on the phone and he told me the XPAK904/906 does not have the intensity of the AVIPAK... I'll try to explain it... This info came straight from him... Think in terms of 1 quad flash burst to both wingtips at the same time: The 904/906 will output about 36 joules TOTAL from the quad burst, times 2 wingtips = about 72 joules total... The AVIPAK will output about 41 joules TOTAL from the quad burst, times 2 wingtips = about 82 joules total... Although the AVIPAK has a lower "output rating in watts" than the 904/906, the flash rate is also much lower which allows more time to charge a LARGER bank of capacitors (25% larger than the 904/906), and the AVIPAK charges the capacitors to a higher voltage at 550 volts, compared to the 904/906 which only charges it's capacitors to 500 volts... More time to charge, higher voltage, and larger capacitor bank directly relates to more joules and a higher intensity flash... The lower "output rating in watts" of the AVIPAK also means less draw on your electrical system, 5.5A @ 12.8V for the AVIPAK vs. 8.5A @ 12.8V for the 904/906... Bigger flash with less amps! Hope this helps... -Bill VonDane EAA Tech Counselor RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Kuss" Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion... Bill Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window. Charlie Kuss --- Bill VonDane wrote: > Hi all... > > With all the discussions on strobe power supplies > going on lately, and with > the emails I received with questions about my power > paks, I got some info > from my engineer on what makes my power paks (and > the Whelen power supplies) > different from the automotive power supplies that > are available... > > As you may know, I contracted Nova to engineer and > build my power paks, and > so I asked them for a comparison between my AVIPAK > and their most popular > auto power pak; the XPAK604... I can get more > detailed info if necessary... > > "The AVIPAK has much larger discharge capacitors > than the standard XPAK604. > The AVIPAK also charges the caps to a higher voltage > level. > The flash rate is also much lower. This allows the > AVIPAK to deliver much > higher energy discharges to the strobe heads. > The Max energy discharge from an XPAK604 is 11.5 > Joules. The AVIPAK can > deliver a 27.66 Joule energy discharge! > The AVIPAK also has a beefier filter circuit on the > input connection. This > makes it a bit quieter on the +12V line and will > reduce RFI." > > As I know it's a simple comparison, but there are > significant differences... > Whelen's power supplies are very close to mine in > power output, although > mine are a bit more... My power paks have a MUCH > more modern design to them > to include the technology in the discharge > capacitors, MOSFET circuitry for > cool and quiet operation, EMI/RFI Filtering, reverse > polarity protection, > over-voltage/absent flashtube protection, tube > de-ionization circuit to > prolong flashtube life, microprocessor controlled > double and quadruple flash > patterns, and input surge protection... > > I may be a bit biased, but I don't think you can get > a better power pak... > ;) > > Hope this helps some of you that had > questions.....oh, and soon I will have > individual power supplies for those of you that > don't like the single power > supply configuration... > > Thanks! > > -Bill VonDane > EAA Tech Counselor > RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs > www.vondane.com > www.creativair.com > www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:23 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Slider canopy rails --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Mickey, We anodized our rails but it was more for looks than protection. and for the aft slider protection we put some of the UHMW tape on the underside of the canopy itself where it comes in contact with the fuselage. So far that has worked well in keeping the scuff marks down. Only time will tell how well it holds up. Mike Robertson >From: Mickey Coggins >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Slider canopy rails >Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 21:33:40 +0200 > >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >Hi, > >Are people typically getting the canopy rails anodized, >or doing something else to protect them? Also, what >about the rear track for the canopy? Seems like anything >you do to it will rub off eventually... > >Thanks, >Mickey > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:16 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" No, It is still a couple of weeks from getting inspected and certificated. They want it ready for the Homecoming though. Mike Robertson >From: "William Davis" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: "RV-List" >Subject: RV-List: Oshkosh >Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 21:04:10 -0400 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "William Davis" > >Does anybody that went to OSH know if the Continental IO-360 powered RV-10 >made it? > >Thanks, Bill , RV-8 Tiger-Kat > > Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/ ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:43 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Mat, You may want to try getting ahold of Randall Henderen here in Oregon. He has worked extensively with the Seaside Airport folks to get them FAA grant money and improve the airport there. His contact info can be found at the EAA Chapter 105 website. Mike Robertson >From: "Matthew Brandes" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Off-Topic: Airport Improvements Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 >10:30:55 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > >I've recently moved to a small (pop: 12,000) rural community that has a >somewhat neglected airport. The city has taken advantage of FAA grants to >improve the runway and taxiways but hasn't spent any money in 40 years to >making improvements to the terminal facilities and hangars. The airport >has >4 T-hangars and one community hangar that holds 7 or 8 planes (one door!) >The FBO office is 600 sf! > >I'd like to correspond with anyone offline who has some experience in >dealing with City Commissions/Goverment in getting them to understand the >value the airport brings to the city and to make necessary improvements. > >Thanks. Apologize for the off-topic post but there is a wealth of >knowledge >and experience in the RV community that I'd like to take advantage of! > > >Matthew >Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) >EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 >www.n523rv.com > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:08 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Ok so, if a -3 was designed for the hole, it has a tensile load of (3.11416*(3/32)sq/4 = .0069029077xxx = 179lbs to deform, .75*179=134lbs to shear And the AK-41H is 1360N=306lbs in shear. Conclusion is that I can easily replace the ak-41h closed end pop rivet everywhere there is -3 AN rivet? Someone please verify my math this is VERY important. Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Stone Subject: Re: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone Michael... The Emhart chart refers to the load (lb) that one of their rivets fail at in shear and tensile loading. The 26000-38,000 psi is the yield/ultimate tensile strength of the material (aluminum) from which the AN rivets are fabricated. To calculate the strength of a single AN rivet multiply the yield strength of the material by the cross secional area of the rivet grip. For a -4 rivet (3.1416 * diameter (squared) divided by 4) = .012272 sq. in. Yield strength = 26,000 psi * .012272 sq. in. = 319 Lb. This is the amount of pull required to begin to deform the rivet. To determine the load the rivet will break at use the ultimate tensile of 38,000 psi; 466 lb The above calculations are for pure tensile loads, for shear loads the rule of thumb is to use 75% of the tensile load values. All this being said the numbers on the Emhart chart are too high for aluminum. I assume they base their strength values on the steel mandral, though I don't know how that would improve tensile strength. If you look at the Cherry MS rivet chart (Aluminum blind rivit) the -4 tensile strength is rated at 240 lb. This is consistant with the mechanical properties of aluminum. Chris Stone RV-8 WIngs Newberg, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I have a need to use closed end rivets on 2 rows of wing/skin/ribs on the underside of my wing near the wing walk area. I have fabricated the wing walk area plus 2 bays to be a wet wing smoke tank. I have not been able to find a way to buck these rivets and get the area sealed with proseal. So I have a need to use the closed end , counter sunk, pop rivets. In researching the tensile strength of these ak-41h rivets, the only table I can find is here: http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/closed2.htm which shows that the shear/tensile is 1360/1710 respectively. The AN rivets that is supposed to go in there, according to the ACS catalog, has a shear/tensile of 26,000/38,000 psi. WOW that is a big difference if my numbers are right. So my question is, are these numbers right? I would really like to use the closed end rivets to seal the tank. If I was only putting in a couple I would not be concerned, but 2 full rib rows next to each other is another matter. Your thoughts? Are the AK numbers above accurate? I could use countersunk cherry's but they don't provide a reliable seal. Thanks Michael Stewart Do not archive this question. But remove for good answers == == == == ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:00 AM PST US From: AndrewTR30@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Engine suitability. --> RV-List message posted by: AndrewTR30@aol.com HI everyone. I have a line on a used engine and new prop and was looking for some feedback on either as to the suitability of use for an RV-10. The engine is an IO-540-G1D5, 290HP with approx 1100 TTSN (on its first run)and a top about 150 hours ago. Never a prop strike. It has been test-cell run and pickled. The prop is a Hartzell HC-92WK-1D. I am told that this is the correct prop for this engine, which I assme means they are certified together. Any information you can supply about either is as always much appreciated. Thanks, Andrew RV-10 Phoenix ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:29 PM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: Garmin GPS for Sale --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Dear All, I've finally replaced my trusty Garmin GPSMap 195 with a new 296. So I'm selling my 195. I anyone on the list is interested, I'd like to get $325 for it. I think thats reasonable, pricing reflects the minimal hassel and risk of selling on the list. The unit is in excellent shape. Its spent its life mounted semipermanently in my plane, so it hasn't been bouncing around in a flight bag. Unit has all accessories EXCEPT for a Yoke mount. I wasnt using mine and loaned it out and now its gone. Unit has a January 2004 database and the latest OS. Thanks, Don Mei do not archive download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:16 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 Engine suitability. From: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" Andrew, The IO-540-G1D5 variant presents a number of differences: - 41 lbs heavier than the -D4A5 model. - Airplane is already at or near forward CG limit with the recommended/lighter engine. - angle valve instead of parallel valve; may not fit within cowl. - G1D5 is 290 HP, exceeding Van's max power spec. If searching for a used engine you might look at the IO-540-C4B5 which are used on Piper Aztecs and seem to be plentiful. This engine is virtually identical to the -D4A5 which isn't used on many planes. Bob RV-10 #40105 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AndrewTR30@aol.com Subject: RV-List: RV-10 Engine suitability. --> RV-List message posted by: AndrewTR30@aol.com HI everyone. I have a line on a used engine and new prop and was looking for some feedback on either as to the suitability of use for an RV-10. The engine is an IO-540-G1D5, 290HP with approx 1100 TTSN (on its first run)and a top about 150 hours ago. Never a prop strike. It has been test-cell run and pickled. The prop is a Hartzell HC-92WK-1D. I am told that this is the correct prop for this engine, which I assme means they are certified together. Any information you can supply about either is as always much appreciated. Thanks, Andrew RV-10 Phoenix == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:05 PM PST US From: Hal / Carol Kempthorne Subject: RE: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne At 10:27 AM 8/5/2004, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >Ok so, if a -3 was designed for the hole, it has a tensile load of >(3.11416*(3/32)sq/4 = .0069029077xxx = 179lbs to deform, .75*179=134lbs >to shear cross sectional area of rivet is radius squared times pi or ( 3/32 / 2 ) * 3.14 (I use 3.14 for pi) tensile strength of this rivet is then area * material strength or 0.0069 * 40,000 and I get about 275 lbs. I guessed the strength of the rivet. Maybe stronger after they are driven.? Pop rivets with steel mandrels are pretty tough. 1/8 inch rivet is stronger by 39/22 or nearly double. hal >And the AK-41H is 1360N=306lbs in shear. > >Conclusion is that I can easily replace the ak-41h closed end pop rivet >everywhere there is -3 AN rivet? > >Someone please verify my math this is VERY important. >Thanks >Mike > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher >Stone >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead > >--> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone > > >Michael... > >The Emhart chart refers to the load (lb) that one of their rivets fail >at in shear and tensile loading. > >The 26000-38,000 psi is the yield/ultimate tensile strength of the >material (aluminum) from which the AN rivets are fabricated. > >To calculate the strength of a single AN rivet multiply the yield >strength of the material by the cross secional area of the rivet grip. > >For a -4 rivet (3.1416 * diameter (squared) divided by 4) = .012272 sq. >in. > >Yield strength = 26,000 psi * .012272 sq. in. = 319 Lb. This is the >amount of pull required to begin to deform the rivet. To determine the >load the rivet will break at use the ultimate tensile of 38,000 psi; 466 >lb > >The above calculations are for pure tensile loads, for shear loads the >rule of thumb is to use 75% of the tensile load values. > >All this being said the numbers on the Emhart chart are too high for >aluminum. I assume they base their strength values on the steel mandral, >though I don't know how that would improve tensile strength. If you >look at the Cherry MS rivet chart (Aluminum blind rivit) the -4 tensile >strength is rated at 240 lb. This is consistant with the mechanical >properties of aluminum. > >Chris Stone >RV-8 WIngs > >Newberg, Oregon > > >-----Original Message----- >From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > >I have a need to use closed end rivets on 2 rows of wing/skin/ribs on >the underside of my wing near the wing walk area. I have fabricated the >wing walk area plus 2 bays to be a wet wing smoke tank. I have not been >able to find a way to buck these rivets and get the area sealed with >proseal. So I have a need to use the closed end , counter sunk, pop >rivets. > > >In researching the tensile strength of these ak-41h rivets, the only >table I can find is here: http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/closed2.htm >which shows that the shear/tensile is 1360/1710 respectively. The AN >rivets that is supposed to go in there, according to the ACS catalog, >has a shear/tensile of 26,000/38,000 psi. WOW that is a big difference >if my numbers are right. So my question is, are these numbers right? I >would really like to use the closed end rivets to seal the tank. If I >was only putting in a couple I would not be concerned, but 2 full rib >rows next to each other is another matter. > > >Your thoughts? Are the AK numbers above accurate? I could use >countersunk cherry's but they don't provide a reliable seal. > > >Thanks > > >Michael Stewart > >Do not archive this question. But remove for good answers > > >== >== >== >== > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:47:00 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" , Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Geez Bill, cut us some slack. You appear to be the only one to routinely post every message to multiple lists. I know you're one of us and all and you want to advertise your products but at least confine your responses to just the list that posted the follow-up (in this case VAF.) Thanks. Greg Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:12 PM > To: vansairforce; rv-list@matronics.com; > rv-8@yahoogroups.com; RV10@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Hey Charlie... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Kuss" > To: > Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > > Bill > Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all > your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window. > > Charlie Kuss > > --- Bill VonDane wrote: > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:45 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... "'vansairforce'" , rv-8@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Sorry... I thought it would be good info for all... Wont happen again... I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... I wish we had just one... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young" ; ; Subject: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... Geez Bill, cut us some slack. You appear to be the only one to routinely post every message to multiple lists. I know you're one of us and all and you want to advertise your products but at least confine your responses to just the list that posted the follow-up (in this case VAF.) Thanks. Greg Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:12 PM > To: vansairforce; rv-list@matronics.com; > rv-8@yahoogroups.com; RV10@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Hey Charlie... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Kuss" > To: > Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > > Bill > Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all > your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window. > > Charlie Kuss > > --- Bill VonDane wrote: > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:01 PM PST US Subject: RE: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... From: "Scott Schmidt" "vansairforce" , --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" I agree. We need just one list and one place to go and post information. www.advrider.com is a great site to go for any questions about motorcycle riding including ride reports, things for sale, reviews of products,ect.... This I feel would be a much better way to communicate information with everyone who has or is building RV's. It would be a place where pictures can be posted for building questions and people could put pictures from trips they flew over the weekend. It could have specific info on RV-4', 6's, 8's, ect..... The great thing though is that all the posts remain on the site and past information is easily searched through a search engine. If you get a second, look at the website I have attached and let me know what you think. I'm really tired of these e-mail forums, they are not efficient at all, there is a better way now. I will look into costs for the site and maintenance. Maybe Van's or another vendor could sponsor the site. Just my thoughts. Thanks. Scott Schmidt RV-10, Tail complete, Wings 90%, Starting Fuselage Cell: 801-319-3094 sschmidt@ussynthetic.com ________________________________ From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bill@vondane.com] rv-8@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... Sorry... I thought it would be good info for all... Wont happen again... I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... I wish we had just one... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young" ; ; Subject: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... Geez Bill, cut us some slack. You appear to be the only one to routinely post every message to multiple lists. I know you're one of us and all and you want to advertise your products but at least confine your responses to just the list that posted the follow-up (in this case VAF.) Thanks. Greg Do not archive > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:12 PM > To: vansairforce; rv-list@matronics.com; > rv-8@yahoogroups.com; RV10@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Hey Charlie... > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Kuss" > To: > Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > > Bill > Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all > your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window. > > Charlie Kuss > > --- Bill VonDane wrote: > > ADVERTISEMENT click here ________________________________ * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Service . ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:37 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... > I wish we had just one... > > -Bill > As do I... Greg Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:40 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Creating another site just makes it worse. Im afraid a few need to go away.....maybe. At 03:13 PM 8/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" > >I agree. We need just one list and one place to go and post >information. >www.advrider.com is a great site to go for >any questions about motorcycle riding including ride reports, things for >sale, reviews of products,ect.... This I feel would be a much better >way to communicate information with everyone who has or is building >RV's. It would be a place where pictures can be posted for building >questions and people could put pictures from trips they flew over the >weekend. It could have specific info on RV-4', 6's, 8's, ect..... >The great thing though is that all the posts remain on the site and past >information is easily searched through a search engine. > >If you get a second, look at the website I have attached and let me know >what you think. I'm really tired of these e-mail forums, they are not >efficient at all, there is a better way now. >I will look into costs for the site and maintenance. Maybe Van's or >another vendor could sponsor the site. >Just my thoughts. Thanks. > >Scott Schmidt >RV-10, Tail complete, Wings 90%, Starting Fuselage >Cell: 801-319-3094 >sschmidt@ussynthetic.com >________________________________ > >From: Bill VonDane [mailto:bill@vondane.com] >To: RV10@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com; 'vansairforce'; >rv-8@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > >Sorry... I thought it would be good info for all... Wont happen >again... > >I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... I wish we >had >just one... > >-Bill > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Greg Young" >To: ; "'vansairforce'" >; ; > >Subject: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > >Geez Bill, cut us some slack. You appear to be the only one to routinely >post every message to multiple lists. I know you're one of us and all >and >you want to advertise your products but at least confine your responses >to >just the list that posted the follow-up (in this case VAF.) Thanks. > >Greg > >Do not archive > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 12:12 PM > > To: vansairforce; rv-list@matronics.com; > > rv-8@yahoogroups.com; RV10@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > > > Hey Charlie... > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Charles Kuss" > > To: > > Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Strobe Power Supply Discussion... > > > > > > Bill > > Try comparing your unit to Nova's 904 model and all > > your "alledged" superiority goes right out the window. > > > > Charlie Kuss > > > > --- Bill VonDane wrote: > > > > > > >ADVERTISEMENT >click here >Dgroups/S1705340085:HM/EXP1091825441/A2128215/R0/SIG10se96mf6/*htt >p:/companion.yahoo.com> > >s/S:HM/A2128215/rand721270027> > >________________________________ > >* To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV10/ > >* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > RV10-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > >Service . > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:40 PM PST US Subject: RE: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... From: "Bartrim, Todd" --> RV-List message posted by: "Bartrim, Todd" > Sorry... I thought it would be good info for all... Wont happen again... > > I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... I wish we had > just one... Hi Bill; I'm glad that we have multiple lists, so I don't have to read items specific to airplanes that I'm not building. But I did appreciate reading your posting, which I would have missed if you hadn't posted it. My delete key works just fine and your post was very relevant, so don't worry about it. :-) DO NOT ARCHIVE S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RX-9endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -Albert Einstein ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:33 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton I need some advice from any paint experts. I'm working on my fibreglas parts. I've been using a bit of Bondo UV activated glazing putty, and a lot of red Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty (No. 907C) to fill pin holes and other small imperfections. Today I got an e-mail from the wife of a local RV-6A flyer who told me that they had used the red Bondo glazing putty on their aircraft - it looked great at first, but the paint started bubbling about a year later. Their aircraft is hangared at an airport in the Ottawa area, so my aircraft will see similar conditions. I Googled, found a few references to the various Bondo products absorbing moisture, and that this would eventually cause problems with corrosion or with the paint. I'm not worried about corrosion on the fibreglas, but I am worried about the paint. So, is this only a problem with certain types of paint, or is it a more general problem? If it is paint specific, which paints are good, and which are bad? Is it only a problem if there are thick areas of glazing putty to fill low spots, or are pin holes a problem too? What should I do now - can I seal the surface with something to prevent this from becoming a problem? If so, what would you recommend? Thanks for your advice. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:32:47 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Kevin Horton wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > >I need some advice from any paint experts. > >I'm working on my fibreglas parts. I've been using a bit of Bondo UV >activated glazing putty, and a lot of red Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty >(No. 907C) to fill pin holes and other small imperfections. Today I >got an e-mail from the wife of a local RV-6A flyer who told me that >they had used the red Bondo glazing putty on their aircraft - it >looked great at first, but the paint started bubbling about a year >later. Their aircraft is hangared at an airport in the Ottawa area, >so my aircraft will see similar conditions. > >I Googled, found a few references to the various Bondo products >absorbing moisture, and that this would eventually cause problems >with corrosion or with the paint. I'm not worried about corrosion on >the fibreglas, but I am worried about the paint. > >So, is this only a problem with certain types of paint, or is it a >more general problem? > I've used the red and green stuff with great success, on steel, aluminum, and fiberglas. > If it is paint specific, which paints are good, and which are bad? > I'm not sure that it's paint specific. I think the probklem is caused by not letting the glazing putty fully dry out. Later on the volatiles expand in the heat and slowly lift the paint. A pin prick early on should take care of the problem. > Is it only a problem if there are thick areas of glazing putty to fill low spots, or are pin holes a problem too? > I think the problem is more prevalent with thick areas. Shouldn't be a problem if you let them dry out over a few days for the thicker areas. Pinholes aren't a problem. >What should I do now - can I seal the surface with something to >prevent this from becoming a problem? If so, what would you >recommend? > Use a good 2-part polyurethane primer and good topcoat. Paint isn't a place to save a few bucks. >Thanks for your advice. > You're quite welcome. Linn ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:46 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Kevin Horton wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton > > I need some advice from any paint experts. > > I'm working on my fibreglas parts. I've been using a bit of Bondo UV > activated glazing putty, and a lot of red Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty > (No. 907C) to fill pin holes and other small imperfections. Today I > got an e-mail from the wife of a local RV-6A flyer who told me that > they had used the red Bondo glazing putty on their aircraft - it > looked great at first, but the paint started bubbling about a year > later. Their aircraft is hangared at an airport in the Ottawa area, > so my aircraft will see similar conditions. I've used red Bondo spot putty on several projects for filling small blems such as scratches and pinholes and never had any problems with paint lifting. The putty should only be used in very thin layers and for minor blemishes. Anything larger will require a proper filler. If you are concerned about moisture absorption, shoot a coat of rattle can sandable primer over the spotted area after the putty has had adequate time to dry. This is also necessary in order to check the quality of the repair. When you are ready for final finish, you can sand the entire area back to base material and apply primer and color coat. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:00:51 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: [RV10] RE: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com Creating another site just makes it worse. Im afraid a few need to go away.....maybe. At 03:13 PM 8/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Schmidt" > >I agree. We need just one list and one place to go and post >information. >www.advrider.com is a great site to go for >any questions about motorcycle riding including ride reports, things for >sale, reviews of products,ect.... This I feel would be a much better >way to communicate information with everyone who has or is building >RV's. It would be a place where pictures can be posted for building >questions and people could put pictures from trips they flew over the >weekend. It could have specific info on RV-4', 6's, 8's, ect..... >>>>>>>>>>> Scott, I may have missed something, but my connection to the internet as far as forums go is limited to Matt Dralle's Matronics website, particularly the RV-list, Aeroelectric-list and Engine-list. I get more than enough useful information, can pick the brains of some "real" experts, and have an archive dating back over 10 years to research. I'd like to say my RV would likely not have been at OSH last week without it. I have no idea how having to parse through more "resources" could have made that any easier. Having the multi-disciplined and vastly experienced resource of the RV-list et. al. to draw from makes me wonder what something else could have to offer in return for my investment in time just to look at it? One thing you can take to the bank- Next time Matte starts his shameless solicitations, I'll happily throw some more $$$ his way 'cause it's probably some of the best bang for the buck I've spent in the last 6 years! From The PossumWorks in TN and do not archive Mark Phillips - RV-6A - 105+ awesome hours 8-) ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:03 PM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:RTV on canopy --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com I used Butyl Rubber to seal my canopy. It comes in a caulking gun cartridge & a thin bead is all you need to use. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:43 PM PST US From: Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point James and Mark, Thank you both for the kind words. I will pass them on to the rest of the crew. I have stayed out of the recent threads on this and other lists about the pros and cons of Oshkosh and the bigger fly-ins. This is a good chance to get my $.02 in, so here goes: Those who complain about the lack of RV photos, or too many Cessnas and Cirruses, or the same boring airshow routines, or whatever, are missing the point entirly. Oshkosh is not about the airplanes, it's about the people. After you've been there a few times (I haven't missed since '86) you realize this more and more. Volunteering full time at Oshkosh is one of the ways I give back to aviation, which is to say, the people in aviation who have given me so much. Plus, I still cling to a naive hope that, with a change in leadership, EAA may change direction and go back to the way it was when Paul was running it. A guy can hope, can't he. Oh, and I stand corrected on the IO-360 RV-10. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI do not archive > >