---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 08/06/04: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:14 AM - Re: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? (Kevin Horton) 2. 05:14 AM - Cleaning the hanger - items for sale (sjhdcl@kingston.net) 3. 06:28 AM - rtv on canopy frame (Frazier, Vincent A) 4. 06:48 AM - Re: Need a rivet buzzhead (Christopher Stone) 5. 07:05 AM - Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 6. 07:07 AM - Re: rtv on canopy frame (Jaye and Scott Jackson) 7. 07:26 AM - Re: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? (Christopher Stone) 8. 07:43 AM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Bill VonDane) 9. 07:46 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Tom Gummo) 10. 08:46 AM - Re: Oshkosh (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 11. 08:53 AM - RV Builders in UK - London & Farnborough (Charles Rowbotham) 12. 08:57 AM - Hangar for Rent, Kenosha, WI (DJB6A@cs.com) 13. 08:59 AM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 14. 09:13 AM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Kathleen (rv7)) 15. 09:23 AM - Rattle can flat paint (Glen Matejcek) 16. 09:28 AM - ELT antenna (Glen Matejcek) 17. 09:32 AM - trip (Paul Petty) 18. 09:44 AM - Re: rtv on canopy frame (Jim Sears) 19. 10:47 AM - Re: Rattle can flat paint (RV8ter@aol.com) 20. 10:58 AM - Van's now selling Garmin Avionics! (Matthew Brandes) 21. 10:59 AM - Re: rtv on canopy frame (Jaye and Scott Jackson) 22. 11:53 AM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Mickey Coggins) 23. 01:34 PM - UPSAT/IIMorrow GX50 GPS (John DeCuir) 24. 02:14 PM - Re: Re: Oregon Aero Seats (Rick Galati) 25. 02:36 PM - Re: UPSAT/IIMorrow GX50 GPS (Robert Cutter) 26. 02:58 PM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Richard Tasker) 27. 03:13 PM - Auto pilot installation (Al Grajek) 28. 04:01 PM - Re: Re: Re: Oregon Aero Seats (Greg Young) 29. 05:45 PM - Re: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (HCRV6@aol.com) 30. 06:11 PM - lists was Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... (linn walters) 31. 06:48 PM - Re: Auto pilot installation (Sam Buchanan) 32. 07:27 PM - Re: Van's now selling Garmin Avionics! (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 33. 08:57 PM - Re: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion (Richard Sipp) 34. 10:20 PM - Re: rtv on canopy frame (Vanremog@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:35 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton Thanks for the advice guys. I'll make sure the red stuff has had several days to cure before it gets paint. I'll use a proper filler (i.e. West Systems epoxy + filler) in any areas that need thick fixes. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:59 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Cleaning the hanger - items for sale From: sjhdcl@kingston.net subaruaircraft@yahoogroups.com, vansairforce@yahoogroups.com --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net I have several RV items for sale. See website below. http://members.kingston.net/sjhdcl/Stuff%20for%20Sale/rv_stuff_for_sale.htm Steve Hurlbut ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:21 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame From: "Frazier, Vincent A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" Ted, You can use silicone RTV or Proseal. Paint will stick to ProSeal, not to RTV. I used Proseal. Mix it and put it in a baggie, snip a small hole and use it like a cake icing bag. Mask the areas you don't want Proseal on then peel the tape after the Proseal is in place. You can do a VERY neat professional looking job this way. It also makes the canopy stiffer and eliminates the annoying plexi squeaks. Silicone RTV works fine too. Particularly if you don't want to mask everything... for example if you've already painted everything. Cleans off safely with isopropyl alcohol before it sets. Just don't get it where paint will go later or it might cause problems. Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:48:29 AM PST US From: Christopher Stone Subject: RE: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone Michael... Your math is correct and I believe your assertion that the AK-41h can by replaced with a -3 solid rivet. ACS sells the cherry MS blind rivets. So if you are going to use a blind rivit the Cherry MS would be my choice. A full complement of data is available at: https://etaf.textron.com/etaf/Catalogs.jspx Undwer "catalogs" select blind rivets then Cherry MS rivets. As you stated in your previous post, you are using the wing root for an oil tank. Are you adding additionl rivets to the rib/skin joint in this area? In order for the tanks to remain liquid tight the skin needs to be fastened to the point where the contents of the tank will not deform the skin between the fasteners (rivets) thus spacing of rivets is critical. Chris Stone -8 wings forever Newberg, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Ok so, if a -3 was designed for the hole, it has a tensile load of (3.11416*(3/32)sq/4 = .0069029077xxx = 179lbs to deform, .75*179=134lbs to shear And the AK-41H is 1360N=306lbs in shear. Conclusion is that I can easily replace the ak-41h closed end pop rivet everywhere there is -3 AN rivet? Someone please verify my math this is VERY important. Thanks Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Stone Subject: Re: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone Michael... The Emhart chart refers to the load (lb) that one of their rivets fail at in shear and tensile loading. The 26000-38,000 psi is the yield/ultimate tensile strength of the material (aluminum) from which the AN rivets are fabricated. To calculate the strength of a single AN rivet multiply the yield strength of the material by the cross secional area of the rivet grip. For a -4 rivet (3.1416 * diameter (squared) divided by 4) = .012272 sq. in. Yield strength = 26,000 psi * .012272 sq. in. = 319 Lb. This is the amount of pull required to begin to deform the rivet. To determine the load the rivet will break at use the ultimate tensile of 38,000 psi; 466 lb The above calculations are for pure tensile loads, for shear loads the rule of thumb is to use 75% of the tensile load values. All this being said the numbers on the Emhart chart are too high for aluminum. I assume they base their strength values on the steel mandral, though I don't know how that would improve tensile strength. If you look at the Cherry MS rivet chart (Aluminum blind rivit) the -4 tensile strength is rated at 240 lb. This is consistant with the mechanical properties of aluminum. Chris Stone RV-8 WIngs Newberg, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RV-List: Need a rivet buzzhead --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I have a need to use closed end rivets on 2 rows of wing/skin/ribs on the underside of my wing near the wing walk area. I have fabricated the wing walk area plus 2 bays to be a wet wing smoke tank. I have not been able to find a way to buck these rivets and get the area sealed with proseal. So I have a need to use the closed end , counter sunk, pop rivets. In researching the tensile strength of these ak-41h rivets, the only table I can find is here: http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/closed2.htm which shows that the shear/tensile is 1360/1710 respectively. The AN rivets that is supposed to go in there, according to the ACS catalog, has a shear/tensile of 26,000/38,000 psi. WOW that is a big difference if my numbers are right. So my question is, are these numbers right? I would really like to use the closed end rivets to seal the tank. If I was only putting in a couple I would not be concerned, but 2 full rib rows next to each other is another matter. Your thoughts? Are the AK numbers above accurate? I could use countersunk cherry's but they don't provide a reliable seal. Thanks Michael Stewart Do not archive this question. But remove for good answers == == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:02 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" You know, I have been thinking about this for quite some time and I am very curious about the groups thoughts on this. The RV-list is a terrific tool, one that I pay to enjoy. But I am a member of ALL the yahoo groups and I do have my pet peeves about these groups and lists as a whole. There is no doubt we will NEVER get the Yahoo groups to do all that we need, but we MIGHT be able to get Matt to enhance the RV-list for features we like and issues we have in general. There are some examples stated before of new cool message boards controllable. I have one on my chapter website that I maintain at www.eaa690.org . Things I love about the list in priority 1. Kick butt history searchability 2. knowledgeable folks 3. Keeps out the crap (spam, out of office, etc.) 4. Threads Things I don't like 1. Slow, we need near real time messages 2. No cool easy to use features like Polling, databases, file storage, calendaring, photo galleries. 3. Lack of focus. I don't like classifieds when there are other places for that. I don't like to see the same message in 10 places. The rv community is really growing. We need to support the growth. Anyway, I thought folks might like to hash this out. Ive been an active supporter on "the list" for years and I'll bet many of you have some likes and dislikes that Matt could address. Lets put them on the table and leap frog towards our goals of the lists and groups(which need to be defined) Regards, Michael Stewart ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:18 AM PST US From: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame --> RV-List message posted by: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" I seem to recall a discussion about RTV and plexiglas a while ago on the forum. The consensus was that the RTV causes premature crazing or clouding of the plexiglas, and to stick to proseal. Scott in Vancouver back on the forum RV-6, 150 hours back in the shop for repairs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frazier, Vincent A" Subject: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame > --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" > > > Ted, > > You can use silicone RTV or Proseal. Paint will stick to ProSeal, not > to RTV. > > I used Proseal. Mix it and put it in a baggie, snip a small hole and > use it like a cake icing bag. Mask the areas you don't want Proseal on > then peel the tape after the Proseal is in place. You can do a VERY > neat professional looking job this way. > > It also makes the canopy stiffer and eliminates the annoying plexi > squeaks. > > Silicone RTV works fine too. Particularly if you don't want to mask > everything... for example if you've already painted everything. Cleans > off safely with isopropyl alcohol before it sets. Just don't get it > where paint will go later or it might cause problems. > > Vince Frazier > F-1H Rocket, N540VF > http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:42 AM PST US From: Christopher Stone Subject: Re: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone Kevin... I have had the same bad experience with "Laquer Spot Putty" or "Spot Glazing Filler" that is sold at auto supply stores. After about a year or so the paint on the filled areas begins to bubble and peel. I had this happen with both laquer and epoxy based paint and matching primers on wood and polyester (fiberglas). I now use a mixture of epoxy and microballoons, both available at TAP plastics. 20+ years of service and the paint is still perfect over the filled areas. Chris Stone -8 wings...still Newberg, Oregon -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Horton Subject: RV-List: Red Bondo glazing putty and moisture? --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton I need some advice from any paint experts. I'm working on my fibreglas parts. I've been using a bit of Bondo UV activated glazing putty, and a lot of red Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty (No. 907C) to fill pin holes and other small imperfections. Today I got an e-mail from the wife of a local RV-6A flyer who told me that they had used the red Bondo glazing putty on their aircraft - it looked great at first, but the paint started bubbling about a year later. Their aircraft is hangared at an airport in the Ottawa area, so my aircraft will see similar conditions. I Googled, found a few references to the various Bondo products absorbing moisture, and that this would eventually cause problems with corrosion or with the paint. I'm not worried about corrosion on the fibreglas, but I am worried about the paint. So, is this only a problem with certain types of paint, or is it a more general problem? If it is paint specific, which paints are good, and which are bad? Is it only a problem if there are thick areas of glazing putty to fill low spots, or are pin holes a problem too? What should I do now - can I seal the surface with something to prevent this from becoming a problem? If so, what would you recommend? Thanks for your advice. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:58 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hey Mike... What are you using to manage your chapter website? It's very nice! -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" You know, I have been thinking about this for quite some time and I am very curious about the groups thoughts on this. The RV-list is a terrific tool, one that I pay to enjoy. But I am a member of ALL the yahoo groups and I do have my pet peeves about these groups and lists as a whole. There is no doubt we will NEVER get the Yahoo groups to do all that we need, but we MIGHT be able to get Matt to enhance the RV-list for features we like and issues we have in general. There are some examples stated before of new cool message boards controllable. I have one on my chapter website that I maintain at www.eaa690.org . Things I love about the list in priority 1. Kick butt history searchability 2. knowledgeable folks 3. Keeps out the crap (spam, out of office, etc.) 4. Threads Things I don't like 1. Slow, we need near real time messages 2. No cool easy to use features like Polling, databases, file storage, calendaring, photo galleries. 3. Lack of focus. I don't like classifieds when there are other places for that. I don't like to see the same message in 10 places. The rv community is really growing. We need to support the growth. Anyway, I thought folks might like to hash this out. Ive been an active supporter on "the list" for years and I'll bet many of you have some likes and dislikes that Matt could address. Lets put them on the table and leap frog towards our goals of the lists and groups(which need to be defined) Regards, Michael Stewart ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:09 AM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Just one more "Add a Boy" to Jeff and the OSH crew in the HBC area. Being a as_hole, I tend to break or bent the rules. The volunteers would ride up on their carts or baby motorcycles and ask what we were doing. You could see the look in their eyes that we were breaking a rule, once we explained that what we were doing would not effect anybody or get in the way, they would say OK. It is nice to see logic actually work. Nice meeting you Jeff. Thanks for all the help with getting the truck onto the campgrounds. I would like to add one more thing about how the people at OSH. We camped by an RV-4: N7XD. The RV-4 brought a man and this son; his wife of one month came commerically. They were really nice people and we enjoyed camping by them from Sunday to the following Saturday. Sunday morning, the man and his 13 year old son departed for Texas but the wife stayed to volunteer to help at the "Awards Program". Late that afternoon, she commented that he didn't call and that he always did. We got her to call the local police at home to check on the plane. Later that night, she came to the tent and said they were dead. What are four guys from Calif going to do for her in the middle of a now almost empty campground? Anyway, we go a hold of security and soon a local police car arrived and confirmed the news. I explained to the policeman that we were in no position to really help her. He thought for a minute and said the the local police chaplain was helping out at OSH. Within minutes, the chaplain arrived and took over. While they worked with her, we took down her tent and packed up all her things. The chaplian and the police made sure she was not left alone and arranged to get her to the airlines and get a earier flight home. Not the way I wanted my first and maybe only trip to OSH to end. But it was nice to see people caring for people in need. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:17 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 8/6/04 9:46:37 AM US Eastern Standard Time, T.gummo@verizon.net writes: > N7XD Tom, Such a sad story, but thanks for sharing it with us. We will keep her in our prayers. It seems like every year something like this happens, I guess because there are just an enormous number of aircraft flying to and from OSH. All we can do is fly as safe as we can, and try to make sure it doesn't happen to us. Please try to come to terms with it, and come back to OSH next year for a good time. Regards, Dan Hopper RV-7A (Back from OSH with about 34 hours now.) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:03 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RV-List: RV Builders in UK - London & Farnborough --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Any builders in the Farnborough London area - will be working out of Aldershot thru 8/22. THanks, Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A download! http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:43 AM PST US From: DJB6A@cs.com Subject: RV-List: Hangar for Rent, Kenosha, WI --> RV-List message posted by: DJB6A@cs.com If anyone is looking for a hangar in SE WI, the unit next to one I am renting is available. It is a 46' x 46', $500/month, good for 2 RV's share the cost. Contact Todd Hansen at 262-620-1018 Dave Burnham RV6A (N64FN) - Painting ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:20 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Postnuke Content Management System. It's a bit slow cause I run it from home off my old Toshiba Laptop. A cool PHP harness that really works great. There are other terrific examples of this in the RV community to include Kevin Hortons Site. http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ These allow for folks to post their own articles, maintain the calendar, polls, photo galleries, all kinds of neat stuff that requires no involvement from the administrator. Its all built in. (well not that simple, but close) I put the chapter website on one of the CMS things so that others could actively manage the site, participate themselves, and I did not have to update it ever. People submit their own stuff and it becomes it own living thing that I don't have to be the daily manager of. Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hey Mike... What are you using to manage your chapter website? It's very nice! -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" You know, I have been thinking about this for quite some time and I am very curious about the groups thoughts on this. The RV-list is a terrific tool, one that I pay to enjoy. But I am a member of ALL the yahoo groups and I do have my pet peeves about these groups and lists as a whole. There is no doubt we will NEVER get the Yahoo groups to do all that we need, but we MIGHT be able to get Matt to enhance the RV-list for features we like and issues we have in general. There are some examples stated before of new cool message boards controllable. I have one on my chapter website that I maintain at www.eaa690.org . Things I love about the list in priority 1. Kick butt history searchability 2. knowledgeable folks 3. Keeps out the crap (spam, out of office, etc.) 4. Threads Things I don't like 1. Slow, we need near real time messages 2. No cool easy to use features like Polling, databases, file storage, calendaring, photo galleries. 3. Lack of focus. I don't like classifieds when there are other places for that. I don't like to see the same message in 10 places. The rv community is really growing. We need to support the growth. Anyway, I thought folks might like to hash this out. Ive been an active supporter on "the list" for years and I'll bet many of you have some likes and dislikes that Matt could address. Lets put them on the table and leap frog towards our goals of the lists and groups(which need to be defined) Regards, Michael Stewart == == == == ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:13:03 AM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" Michael, I think you are right on target, especially with your list of likes and don't likes. Closer to real time would be great. My #2 would be get the advertising into a separate area. It's a drag to wade through the thinly veiled (and sometimes more blatant) ads some folks put out. I don't mind the straight forward, "I'm selling something," but the folks who are running little business are simply taking advantage of the situation. Having said that, and in their defense, they don't have a really good option. There should be a separate posting area for ads so we don't all wade through ads when we really want to share information. I think that's about 11 cents worth or am I expecting too much? Kathleen Evans Folsom, CA www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> You know, I have been thinking about this for quite some time and I am very curious about the groups thoughts on this. The RV-list is a terrific tool, one that I pay to enjoy. But I am a member of ALL the yahoo groups and I do have my pet peeves about these groups and lists as a whole. There is no doubt we will NEVER get the Yahoo groups to do all that we need, but we MIGHT be able to get Matt to enhance the RV-list for features we like and issues we have in general. There are some examples stated before of new cool message boards controllable. I have one on my chapter website that I maintain at www.eaa690.org . Things I love about the list in priority 1. Kick butt history searchability 2. knowledgeable folks 3. Keeps out the crap (spam, out of office, etc.) 4. Threads Things I don't like 1. Slow, we need near real time messages 2. No cool easy to use features like Polling, databases, file storage, calendaring, photo galleries. 3. Lack of focus. I don't like classifieds when there are other places for that. I don't like to see the same message in 10 places. The rv community is really growing. We need to support the growth. Anyway, I thought folks might like to hash this out. Ive been an active supporter on "the list" for years and I'll bet many of you have some likes and dislikes that Matt could address. Lets put them on the table and leap frog towards our goals of the lists and groups(which need to be defined) Regards, Michael Stewart advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:55 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: Rattle can flat paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- A couple things came up at OSH this year that I was encouraged to share with you guys. The one for this note is that I found a way to get a really good finish on my panel with rattle cans of epoxy prop paint. My panel is flat black for a totally utilitarian finish that matches all my avionics. The problem is that the rattle cans are notorious for uneven finishes and the occasional small lump or blob to otherwise bugger up a nice finish. What I've done is put on several coats of paint to build up some thickness, totally disregarding the details of the finish. When cured, I wet sand with 400 grit. This gives me a uniform and (physically) flat surface. I follow this up with grey scothbrite to remove the scratches left in the paint by the 400 grit paper. I, and everyone who has looked at it, really like the results. The white scotchbrite is too fine and will actually burnish the flat paint to a semi-gloss condition. You might wonder how I know that... FWIW Glen ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:43 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: ELT antenna --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- Another discovery at OSH this year is that ACK has just come out with a new ELT antenna that is much shorter than the STD unit and made like a rubber duckie. Unlike using a rubber duckie though, this one is guaranteed to meet all applicable specs. I have one on order for my -8 that will be mounted in the cabin area and hopefully be of more real world utility than the mounting locations we are typically stuck with. FWIW Glen ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:11 AM PST US From: "Paul Petty" Subject: RV-List: trip --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Petty" Hello, My name is Paul Petty and I live in central MS. My father-n-law owns a RV8 and we are planning a trip from central MS to Reno for the air races in September. We were wondering if there are any of you fine folks that may want to join us for this trip? Paul Petty Building Ms. Dixie Kolbra/912UL/Warp www.c-gate.net/~ppetty do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:57 AM PST US From: Jim Sears Subject: Re: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > I seem to recall a discussion about RTV and plexiglas a while ago on the > forum. The consensus was that the RTV causes premature crazing or clouding > of the plexiglas, and to stick to proseal. Maybe so; but, I've seen A&Ps with IAs using clear RTV on windshields, side windows, etc. of commercially built aircraft with no ill effects for years. I used the clear on my RV's tip up roll bar to help keep the rain out. So far, it still looks just fine after about five years. The one drawback is not being able to paint it. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 EAA Technical Counselor ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:40 AM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Rattle can flat paint --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com disregarding all the fun you had repainting and sanding, might it not have been quicker to just get a cheap spray gun and have painted the thing that way to begin with and avoided the repainting, sanding, buffing? just curious. lucky do not archive In a message dated 8/6/2004 12:23:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Glen Matejcek" writes: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > >Hi All- > >A couple things came up at OSH this year that I was encouraged to share >with you guys. The one for this note is that I found a way to get a really >good finish on my panel with rattle cans of epoxy prop paint. > >My panel is flat black for a totally utilitarian finish that matches all my >avionics. The problem is that the rattle cans are notorious for uneven >finishes and the occasional small lump or blob to otherwise bugger up a >nice finish. What I've done is put on several coats of paint to build up >some thickness, totally disregarding the details of the finish. When >cured, I wet sand with 400 grit. This gives me a uniform and (physically) >flat surface. I follow this up with grey scothbrite to remove the >scratches left in the paint by the 400 grit paper. I, and everyone who has >looked at it, really like the results. The white scotchbrite is too fine >and will actually burnish the flat paint to a semi-gloss condition. You >might wonder how I know that... > >FWIW > >Glen > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:30 AM PST US From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: Van's now selling Garmin Avionics! --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" Looks like Van's got a deal with Garmin finally. They are even listing prices on the website! http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?9 &browse=avionics Matthew Brandes, Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:06 AM PST US From: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame --> RV-List message posted by: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" Yes, I think it was the orange, hi-temp RTV that caused the problem. The "vinegar" smell given off as it cured was what attacked the plexiglass. I don't think the clear RTV gives off the same smell. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sears" Subject: Re: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears > > > > I seem to recall a discussion about RTV and plexiglas a while ago on the > > forum. The consensus was that the RTV causes premature crazing or clouding > > of the plexiglas, and to stick to proseal. > > Maybe so; but, I've seen A&Ps with IAs using clear RTV on windshields, side > windows, etc. of commercially built aircraft with no ill effects for years. > I used the clear on my RV's tip up roll bar to help keep the rain out. So > far, it still looks just fine after about five years. The one drawback is > not being able to paint it. > > Jim Sears in KY > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) > RV-7A #70317 > EAA Technical Counselor > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:10 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, I totally prefer the Matronics lists for two simple reasons: 1) they can be searched, and are indexed by Google; 2) they seem to strip out nasty HTML formatting. I read the lists via my E-mail program, which is real easy and fast. About the slowness - on average it seems like my messages come in at about the same speed as the moderated Yahoo lists. If Matronics had a mirror of the Yahoo lists on their server, so one could search the list, that would be outstanding. For all the frilly stuff, perhaps Matronics could just put up a php nuke or geeklog installation for the entire community, if someone feels it is needed. Overall, I don't really see a problem, but like everything, it could be made better. Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:56 PM PST US From: John DeCuir Subject: RV-List: UPSAT/IIMorrow GX50 GPS --> RV-List message posted by: John DeCuir I'm looking for feedback on the GX50 GPS. I have a IImorrow LORAN, and I'm getting ready to update to GPS. I've been told that the GX50 slides right in the loran rack, and the antenna fits the same footprint. What else is required? I do need the IFR cert. P.S. , Anybody have a used unit for sale? P.P.s Are you that have the GX50 or 55R happy with it? John DeCuir RV-4 N204CP Salinas, CA ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:30 PM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: RE: Re: Oregon Aero Seats --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati Greg, You may want to contact Oregon Aero for further details. The following is an e-mail from their spokesman regarding leather being treated for fire resistance. Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" The leather we use is certified to meet the FAA requirements in regards to burn. It is my understanding that the leather is treated with a fire retardant agent. Please let me know if you need more information. Thank You, Tony Erickson Oregon Aero, Inc. Seat Department, R&D 800-888-6910 www.oregonaero.com RE: Re: Oregon Aero Seats Greg Young (gyoung@cs-sol.com) Thu Aug 05 - 6:47 AM --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > price....1.1K per seat. I think the leather Oregon Aero uses > is chemically treated to be fire resistant and is FAA > approved, so that certainly would contribute to the cost. Not really. Your costs lie elsewhere. Leather will inherently pass the burntests as will 100% wool. No treatment required.Greg --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:36:08 PM PST US From: "Robert Cutter" Subject: Re: RV-List: UPSAT/IIMorrow GX50 GPS --> RV-List message posted by: "Robert Cutter" Several years ago I did a swap of IImorrow LORAN to the GX 55. It was the only thing they had then.(tells you how long ago) It did slide in with no fuss. The antenna HAS to be on the top if the aircraft. (ours was) I put this in a T tail Turbo Lance II and have used it a lot for years. Very pleased and easy to use. It is IFR enroute but not approach certified. It DOES have to be cert. for IFR use. The installation was not a problem though. IF you are going to connect to A/P there had to be a installed on panel to switch between GPS and NAV. However, all that said, if you are installing in an RV, you might not have the same requirements. I have read several stories about that. Hope this helps. Robert Cutter RV-4 U/C Do not archive ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: John DeCuir >--> RV-List message posted by: John DeCuir > >I'm looking for feedback on the GX50 GPS. I have a IImorrow LORAN, and >I'm getting ready to update to GPS. I've been told that the GX50 slides >right in the loran rack, and the antenna fits the same footprint. What >else is required? I do need the IFR cert. > P.S. , Anybody have a used unit for sale? > P.P.s Are you that have the GX50 or 55R happy with it? > >John DeCuir >RV-4 >N204CP >Salinas, CA > > Sent via the WebMail system at cupower.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:34 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker I second this opinion. I use my email program to look at all the RV sites that interest me - directing them to one email directory. I keep all the messages received so that I can do a search locally for recent items. And if I need to do a search for older material, the Matronics lists are very easy to use. Dick Tasker Mickey Coggins wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >Perhaps I'm a bit old fashioned, I totally prefer >the Matronics lists for two simple reasons: > >1) they can be searched, and are indexed by Google; > >2) they seem to strip out nasty HTML formatting. > >I read the lists via my E-mail program, which is >real easy and fast. > >About the slowness - on average it seems like my >messages come in at about the same speed as the >moderated Yahoo lists. If Matronics had a mirror >of the Yahoo lists on their server, so one could >search the list, that would be outstanding. > >For all the frilly stuff, perhaps Matronics could >just put up a php nuke or geeklog installation for >the entire community, if someone feels it is needed. > >Overall, I don't really see a problem, but like >everything, it could be made better. > >Mickey > > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:06 PM PST US From: "Al Grajek" vansairforce@yahoogroups.com Subject: RV-List: Auto pilot installation --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" Hi gang: Does anyone have any pics or info on the how and where the best installation might be for the aileron servo in an RV8 when installing a Navaid(or other) Auto pilot? Thanks in advance! Al Grajek RV8-A ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:29 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: Re: Oregon Aero Seats --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Could be, Oregon Aero deals with everything from Cubs to military so they may have their reasons. My comments were based on personal experience. Years ago I was heavily involved in spec'ing materials for seat covers for an airline. We switched from treated rayon to wool and leather and did a ton of burn tests. FAR23.853 has been revised some since then but Part 91 aircraft (us) only have to meet the flame-resistant (para. A) or vertical self-extinguishing (para. F, if mounted on the firewall) standards either of which is easily met by any leather or wool we encountered that hadn't been soaked in kerosene. YMMV. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > Greg, > > You may want to contact Oregon Aero for further details. The > following is an e-mail from their spokesman regarding leather > being treated for fire resistance. > > Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" > > > The leather we use is certified to meet the FAA requirements > in regards to burn. It is my understanding that the leather > is treated with a fire retardant agent. > > > Please let me know if you need more information. > > Thank You, > > Tony Erickson > > Oregon Aero, Inc. > > Seat Department, R&D > > 800-888-6910 > > www.oregonaero.com > > > RE: Re: Oregon Aero Seats Greg Young > (gyoung@cs-sol.com) Thu Aug 05 - 6:47 AM > --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" > > price....1.1K per seat. I think the > leather Oregon Aero uses > is chemically treated to be fire > resistant and is FAA > approved, so that certainly would > contribute to the cost. > > > Not really. Your costs lie elsewhere. Leather will inherently > pass the burn tests as will 100% wool. No treatment required. Greg > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:45:57 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 8/5/04 2:31:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gyoung@cs-sol.com writes: << I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... > I wish we had just one... > > -Bill > As do I... Greg >> Not trying to be a wise ass, but there is a perfectly good single list, it's called the RV List. I never have understood why someone building a -8 (or a whatever) has to have an RV 8 List, and someone else building a -7 has to have an RV 7 List, etc., etc. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final assembly ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:01 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: RV-List: lists was Re: Strobe Power Supply Discussion... --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters HCRV6@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > >In a message dated 8/5/04 2:31:26 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gyoung@cs-sol.com >writes: > ><< I don't know how many people subscribe to multiple lists... > > I wish we had just one... > > > > -Bill > > > > As do I... Greg >> > > >Not trying to be a wise ass, but there is a perfectly good single list, it's >called the RV List. I never have understood why someone building a -8 (or a whatever) >has to have an RV 8 List, and someone else building a -7 has to have an RV 7 >List, etc., etc. > >Do not archive > >Harry Crosby >Pleasanton, California >RV-6, final assembly > Well, I, for one joined the RV list and the RV-10 list because I didn't want to get 1400 messages a day concerning all the other RV building questions when I'm interested in the -10. I'm on 4 RV related lists, 2 on Yahoo and 2 Matronics, and that's enough emails thank you very much! My (just arrived) EAA hotline had the following info: Van's RV-9/9A Joins 1,000 Club Van's Aircraft reached another milestone during EAA AirVenture 2004 with its 1,000th order for an RV-9/9A kit, five years almost to the day after the first kit was sold. It is Van's fifth models to reach to 1,000 threshold, including the RV-4, RV-6/6A, RV-7/7A and RV-8/8A. About 109 RV-9/9A kits have been completed and flown. "It is just such an easy airplane to fly, but the performance, even on low power, is positively exciting," said President Dick VanGrunsven "It is nice to see the increasing numbers on the flight line at AirVenture." Total kit starts on all RV models exceeds 12,000. Over 3,700 RVs of all types have been completed, and the company reports that first flights are averaging more than one a day. I find those numbers (12,000 starts and 3700 flying) rather impressive ...... and just think how many questions appeared on those separate lists!!! That's why there's type-specific RV lists. Linn ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:47 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto pilot installation --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Al Grajek wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Al Grajek" > > Hi gang: > Does anyone have any pics or info on the how and where the best installation > might be for the aileron servo in an RV8 when installing a Navaid(or other) > Auto pilot? > Thanks in advance! > Al Grajek > RV8-A Not saying whether or not this is the best installation for you, but here is one option that will work well: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/navaid.html Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Van's now selling Garmin Avionics! From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Looks expensive too. The 430 with wire harness is $700 more than I paid for mine(unit and harness) a year ago from Stark Avionics. Mike Do Not Archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes Subject: RV-List: Van's now selling Garmin Avionics! --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" Looks like Van's got a deal with Garmin finally. They are even listing prices on the website! http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?9 &browse=avionics Matthew Brandes, Van's RV-9A (Fuselage) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com == == == == ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:22 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" Boss, Kahuna, Will you stop....how do you do it all! You are the single most productive dude I have ever met. Dick Sipp do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Subject: RV-List: Lists and groups, Time for a discussion > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" > > You know, I have been thinking about this for quite some time and I am > very curious about the groups thoughts on this. > > The RV-list is a terrific tool, one that I pay to enjoy. But I am a > member of ALL the yahoo groups and I do have my pet peeves about these > groups and lists as a whole. > > > There is no doubt we will NEVER get the Yahoo groups to do all that we > need, but we MIGHT be able to get Matt to enhance the RV-list for > features we like and issues we have in general. There are some examples > stated before of new cool message boards controllable. I have one on my > chapter website that I maintain at www.eaa690.org > . > > > Things I love about the list in priority > > 1. Kick butt history searchability > 2. knowledgeable folks > 3. Keeps out the crap (spam, out of office, etc.) > 4. Threads > > > Things I don't like > > 1. Slow, we need near real time messages > 2. No cool easy to use features like Polling, databases, file > storage, calendaring, photo galleries. > 3. Lack of focus. I don't like classifieds when there are other > places for that. I don't like to see the same message in 10 places. > > > The rv community is really growing. We need to support the growth. > > > Anyway, I thought folks might like to hash this out. Ive been an active > supporter on "the list" for years and I'll bet many of you have some > likes and dislikes that Matt could address. Lets put them on the table > and leap frog towards our goals of the lists and groups(which need to be > defined) > > > Regards, > > Michael Stewart > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:39 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: rtv on canopy frame --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 8/6/2004 10:59:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jayeandscott@telus.net writes: Yes, I think it was the orange, hi-temp RTV that caused the problem. The "vinegar" smell given off as it cured was what attacked the Plexiglas. I don't think the clear RTV gives off the same smell. ============================ The vinegar smell is really the aroma of acetic acid given off during the cure cycle of "normal" commercial RTVs. Electronics grade RTVs don't cure the same way chemically. RTV162 is one such electronics grade RTV, but it is white. I believe there are a few clear ones out there that are electronics grade, so I would recommend checking the GE and Dow Corning websites. I believe that I used some Dow Corning 3150 that I had laying around for edging around the perimeter of my canopy glass. It is clear, low viscosity and worked well. Lexel works well also. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 708 hrs)