Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:41 AM - Re: Re: Saw this engine on Ebay (Dana Overall)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Kevin Horton)
3. 05:14 AM - Wing Twist (Richard Bibb)
4. 05:36 AM - Re: Compass liquid (cgalley)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (WFACT01@aol.com)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: Wing Twist (Kyle Boatright)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Compass liquid (Jim Streit)
8. 07:34 AM - Question for the aerodynamycists (Bluecavu@aol.com)
9. 07:46 AM - Re: Wing Twist (Jerry Springer)
10. 08:56 AM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Skylor Piper)
11. 09:05 AM - Re: Park brake (Leland)
12. 09:08 AM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Kyle Boatright)
13. 09:19 AM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Jerry Springer)
14. 10:56 AM - [ Pat Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
15. 11:05 AM - [ Bobby Hester ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! (Email List Photo Shares)
16. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: Compass liquid (Bruce Green)
17. 12:39 PM - Dan Checkoway in Oct Kitplanes Magazine (Cory Emberson)
18. 12:42 PM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
19. 02:56 PM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Kevin Horton)
20. 03:23 PM - Re: Wing Twist (Kevin Horton)
21. 05:03 PM - Camping at Copperstate (Scott Vanartsdalen)
22. 05:48 PM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (Stein Bruch)
23. 07:38 PM - Re: RV8 one piece wings skins (RV_8 Pilot)
24. 07:59 PM - Re: Re: Compass liquid (Vanremog@aol.com)
25. 08:20 PM - Re: Camping at Copperstate (Vanremog@aol.com)
26. 09:16 PM - Re: Camping at Copperstate (Paul Besing)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Saw this engine on Ebay |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
As Steve so "eloquently" elevated us on the aviaition pedestal:
> > If I have to spend $35,000 to get a good engine either new or a very
>well
> > documented
> > log books then so be it. Wheres the checkbook?
> >
> > If anyone buys an engine like this the amateur built warning sign should
> > include the price
> > paid for the engine in large capital letters.
> >
> > As the saying goes: If you can't afford a good engine, you can't afford
>an
> > airplane.
> >
> >
As Todd brought us rightfully back into reality:
> I was able to find my low time 13B engine core for $160CAD. How
>does that make you feel?... no wait, I really don't give a damn. I don't
>want to start a flame war here, but just want to make sure we don't climb
>too high on our aviation pedestal as this attitude makes us targets. Now
>that I own an airplane people seem to think I'm rich. Rich yes, but
>certainly not in money.
>
>do not archive
>
>S. Todd Bartrim
>Turbo 13B
Jeez Todd, I bought my non logbooked, non new, non well documented rotary
13B for $400US so my pedestal is obviously nearly 3X's as high as yours:-)
Cool!! Sorry though, we obviously can't be in "da club".
Oh man, another load of dribble, babble, dabble to lighten the load:-) I'll
probably get in trouble with the unofficial list
police...................oh, well.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I would also be interested in knowing what strength increase could be
>expected from a change from 025 to 032 skins if anyone happens to know
>(or swag) this off the top of their heads.
Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but the inboard wing
would be the same as before. The extra strength in the outboard wing
is irrelevant, as a chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
If you want one piece wing skins, go ahead. But don't use extra
strength as an argument for the mod.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
I am at the stage of drilling the rear wing attachment bolts on my RV-4 and
have discovered I have about a 1/4" wash out in the left wing. Dont know
how I got that and it doesn't matter at this point but I am seeking the
list's collective wisdom on the best remedy for this.
I am thinking that perhaps the best thing to do is to "average" the twist's
effect by lessening the incidence on the side with the twist. In other
words, if the tip has in effect 1/4"more incidence when the root has the
same incidence as the other straight wing I would drill the hole such that
the twisted wing has 1/8" less incidence at the root so that the "average"
along the span is the same. Not optimal, of course but there is no way to
straighten the wing with the skins now on it..
I realize that measuring this is difficult and I may have some measurement
errors as well so I don't want to get too anal on this. Van's instructions
suggest getting the wings square and the sweep alignment within 1/2" or so
is OK (their "get real" statement in the supplementary instructions) but I
am sure I will have some slight rolling moment if the wings are not straight
in incidence. This is a pain and I have no idea how the twist crept into
the wing while riveting the skins.
The twist seems to be gradual along the entire length of the wing panel as
opposed to localized at the tip region.
Thoughts?
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Compass liquid |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Naphtha is another name for white Gasoline. You certainly don't want highly
flammable gas in your compass and cockpit.
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman@cox.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Compass liquid
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman@cox.net>
>
> Use Naptha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chuck
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Compass liquid
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Chuck <chuck515tigger@yahoo.com>
>
> Matthew,
>
> I think I've still got a few compass overhaul kits and a pint of
compass
> fluid kickin' around. If you're interested I go search. If I find 'em
you
> can have 'em, just reimburse me for the shipping.
>
> Chuck
>
> don't archive
>
> Matthew Brandes <matthew@n523rv.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes"
>
> I picked up a used compass that has a low liquid level. What can I use to
> replenish/replace it?
>
> Matthew Brandes,
> Van's RV-9A (Fuselage)
> EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
> www.n523rv.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: WFACT01@aol.com
CHARLIE-Yes they were pre punched-TOM
Tom Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
President EAA Chapter 1097
wfact01@aol.com
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
Tel: 203-266-5300
Fax: 202-266-5140
EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
RV-8 540 LYC (Engine Runs, Taxi-Tests)
S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
Once upon a time, someone from Van's (perhaps Bill Benedict, when he used to
post to the list), suggested choosing a reference point at 2/3 span to set
incidence. A good search of the archives might (or might not) find this
note.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Wing Twist
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
>
> I am at the stage of drilling the rear wing attachment bolts on my RV-4
and
> have discovered I have about a 1/4" wash out in the left wing. Dont know
> how I got that and it doesn't matter at this point but I am seeking the
> list's collective wisdom on the best remedy for this.
>
> I am thinking that perhaps the best thing to do is to "average" the
twist's
> effect by lessening the incidence on the side with the twist. In other
> words, if the tip has in effect 1/4"more incidence when the root has the
> same incidence as the other straight wing I would drill the hole such that
> the twisted wing has 1/8" less incidence at the root so that the "average"
> along the span is the same. Not optimal, of course but there is no way to
> straighten the wing with the skins now on it..
>
> I realize that measuring this is difficult and I may have some measurement
> errors as well so I don't want to get too anal on this. Van's
instructions
> suggest getting the wings square and the sweep alignment within 1/2" or so
> is OK (their "get real" statement in the supplementary instructions) but I
> am sure I will have some slight rolling moment if the wings are not
straight
> in incidence. This is a pain and I have no idea how the twist crept into
> the wing while riveting the skins.
>
> The twist seems to be gradual along the entire length of the wing panel as
> opposed to localized at the tip region.
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Compass liquid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
kerosene is "liquid" used in compasses
Matthew Brandes wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
>I picked up a used compass that has a low liquid level. What can I use to
>replenish/replace it?
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>Van's RV-9A (Fuselage)
>EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
>www.n523rv.com <http://www.n523rv.com/>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Question for the aerodynamycists |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
>I am going to install a NACA vent on the side of the forward fuselage on the
RV-4 I am rebuilding.=A0 I am thinking of installing it right below the cowl
cheek angled downward so that the longitudinal axis of the vent is parallel
to the logitudnal axis of the cowl cheek extension.=A0 My thought is the
pressure will be positive in this area <
I have one there on my -4 on the left side for the reasons you stated. Works
*very* well (you could style your hair in front of it). I am thinking of
adding another on the right side -but haven't gotten around to it. My vent is level
with the longitudinal axis of the fuse (I squared it to the lower cowl/fuse
line as I recall). It also looks good this way -as the vent angle goes the
opposite direction from the cheek angles.
Scott
N4ZW
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Richard Bibb wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
>
>I am at the stage of drilling the rear wing attachment bolts on my RV-4 and
>have discovered I have about a 1/4" wash out in the left wing. Dont know
>how I got that and it doesn't matter at this point but I am seeking the
>list's collective wisdom on the best remedy for this.
>
>
>
I would suggest to just forget it but Kyles suggestion is a good one
also measure the incidence farther out on
the wing to average your twist. Over all I don't think you would even
notice a 1/4 twist and if you did you
could even it out using the heavy wing process on the ailerons.
Jerry
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
--- Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
> Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but
> the inboard wing
> would be the same as before. The extra strength in
> the outboard wing
> is irrelevant...snip...
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Are you sure about that? The two RV-8's that had
in-flight structural failures (that I know about) had
the wings fail right at the inboard edge of the aileron.
__________________________________
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: Leland <Federigo@pacbell.net>
My Matco parking brake valve is for sale for $50 including shipping to
the lower 48. (Van's new price is $95 plus shipping) I installed it on
my RV9A but removed it because the lever interfered with my rudder
pedal. My pedals are fully forward to make more room for my long legs.
Please contact me off list. Do not archive.
Leland Collins
Pleasanton, California
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
Two?
I think we're all aware of the factory aircraft crashing, but what was the
other one?
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Skylor Piper" <skylor4@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 one piece wings skins
> --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
>
> --- Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> > Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but
> > the inboard wing
> > would be the same as before. The extra strength in
> > the outboard wing
> > is irrelevant...snip...
>
> > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
> Are you sure about that? The two RV-8's that had
> in-flight structural failures (that I know about) had
> the wings fail right at the inboard edge of the aileron.
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Skylor Piper wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
>
>
>--- Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but
>>the inboard wing
>>would be the same as before. The extra strength in
>>the outboard wing
>>is irrelevant...snip...
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
>>
>
>Are you sure about that? The two RV-8's that had
>in-flight structural failures (that I know about) had
>the wings fail right at the inboard edge of the aileron.
>
>
>
>
>
Skylor what were the deaails of the second in flight failure?
Jerry
Message 14
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| Subject: | [ Pat Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Pat Long <PGLong@aol.com>
Subject: Vernatherm
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/PGLong@aol.com.08.21.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | [ Bobby Hester ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Email List Photo Shares <pictures@matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Matco Parking Brake
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bhester@hopkinsville.net.08.21.2004/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures@matronics.com
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Compass liquid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bruce Green <mailindex@juno.com>
Years ago, I used some baby oil. Didn't freeze and damped the compass
somewhat.
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 20:39:09 EDT Oldsfolks@aol.com writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
>
> The Rec. Aviation Homebuilt site on Google had quite a discussion on
> this
> some time back. One party finally settled on Toner for copy
> machine. He said it
> is slightly more viscous than the original and was clear. Maybe
> easier on
> gaskets too ?
> I intend to use it in mine,soon.
>
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
> A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> Charleston,Arkansas
> Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Dan Checkoway in Oct Kitplanes Magazine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Hi Dan and all -
I just wanted to give you a heads-up that your comments about financing your
RV-7 will be in the October issue of Kitplanes magazine, which should hit
the stands soon. And thanks again for sharing your story with me - I
appreciate it very much!
best,
Cory Emberson
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 18
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| Subject: | RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
No kidding? That surprises me.
OK cool. Then I feel better then... and so it is only cosmetics as a
reason to do one piece wing skins?
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 one piece wings skins
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>I would also be interested in knowing what strength increase could be
>expected from a change from 025 to 032 skins if anyone happens to know
>(or swag) this off the top of their heads.
Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but the inboard wing
would be the same as before. The extra strength in the outboard wing
is irrelevant, as a chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
If you want one piece wing skins, go ahead. But don't use extra
strength as an argument for the mod.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
==
==
==
==
Message 19
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| Subject: | RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Well, the problem is we don't know what was going on in that
accident, so it is very hard to know what loads the wing experienced.
How fast were they going, what was the aircraft weight and CG, how
many g were pulled, were the ailerons deflected, etc. Yes, maybe
thicker lower wing skins could have allowed that part of the wing to
carry the loads that were applied to it. Or maybe not. And even if
that part of the wing could carry those loads, we have now changed
the way the loads are distributed on the wing, so we don't know where
the weak link is, and how much load the weakest part of the wing
could carry before it fails.
I'm aware of at least two incidents where RV-8s have had landing gear
box failure during landing, and one case where an RV-8A had a nose
wheel leg collapse. Should builders arbitrarily beef up the landing
gear box and nose landing gear legs too? Where does it end?
A heavier aircraft is less safe than a lighter aircraft, as the stall
speed is higher, which means the lowest possible touchdown speed is
higher. The structure of the heavier aircraft has to carry higher
loads for a given manoeuvre, so it is more likely to fail.
The best answer is to carefully design the aircraft to be just strong
enough to withstand the design loads, and to operate the aircraft so
the design loads are not exceeded. Just adding structure on the
"That Looks About Right" principle just changes the stress
distribution, and puts higher loads somewhere else.
I'm not a structures engineer, so all the above is worth what you
paid for it. I do have a mechanical engineering degree, but have
never really used it in anger.
Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
>
>No kidding? That surprises me.
>OK cool. Then I feel better then... and so it is only cosmetics as a
>reason to do one piece wing skins?
>
>Mike
>Do not archive
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: RV8 one piece wings skins
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>><mstewart@iss.net>
>>
>>I would also be interested in knowing what strength increase could be
>>expected from a change from 025 to 032 skins if anyone happens to know
>>(or swag) this off the top of their heads.
>
>Sure, the outboard wing would be a bit stronger, but the inboard wing
>would be the same as before. The extra strength in the outboard wing
>is irrelevant, as a chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
>
>If you want one piece wing skins, go ahead. But don't use extra
>strength as an argument for the mod.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
You definitely should use a reference point further out than
mid-span. A left-to-right difference in incidence will have more
effect on the outboard wing than the inboard wing, as it has a longer
moment to work with. I don't feel like crunching the math, but
Kyle's 2/3 span number feels correct intuitively to me.
Kevin Horton
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
>Once upon a time, someone from Van's (perhaps Bill Benedict, when he used to
>post to the list), suggested choosing a reference point at 2/3 span to set
>incidence. A good search of the archives might (or might not) find this
>note.
>
>KB
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Wing Twist
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
>>
>> I am at the stage of drilling the rear wing attachment bolts on my RV-4
>and
>> have discovered I have about a 1/4" wash out in the left wing. Dont know
>> how I got that and it doesn't matter at this point but I am seeking the
>> list's collective wisdom on the best remedy for this.
>>
>> I am thinking that perhaps the best thing to do is to "average" the
>twist's
>> effect by lessening the incidence on the side with the twist. In other
>> words, if the tip has in effect 1/4"more incidence when the root has the
>> same incidence as the other straight wing I would drill the hole such that
>> the twisted wing has 1/8" less incidence at the root so that the "average"
>> along the span is the same. Not optimal, of course but there is no way to
>> straighten the wing with the skins now on it..
>>
>> I realize that measuring this is difficult and I may have some measurement
>> errors as well so I don't want to get too anal on this. Van's
>instructions
>> suggest getting the wings square and the sweep alignment within 1/2" or so
>> is OK (their "get real" statement in the supplementary instructions) but I
>> am sure I will have some slight rolling moment if the wings are not
>straight
>> in incidence. This is a pain and I have no idea how the twist crept into
>> the wing while riveting the skins.
>>
>> The twist seems to be gradual along the entire length of the wing panel as
>> opposed to localized at the tip region.
>>
> > Thoughts?
>>
> >
Message 21
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| Subject: | Camping at Copperstate |
rv4 <rv4@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Anyone on the list ever tent camped at Copperstate? How's access to food? (It's
dismal if you arrive early at OSH) What's the weather like that time of year?
Would I be better off in a hotel?
do not archive
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 22
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| Subject: | RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
WELL SAID KEVIN!!!! I see this all to often in a growing number of
homebuilders lately. For example (and one I see quite a bit).....If AWG16
wire is sufficient to the wingtip, why don't I go ahead and run AWG14, AWG12
or even AWG10 wire out there?!?!? If I need AWG18 for master relay power,
why not run AWG16 or AWG14?!? Far too many people are making "improvements"
based on something they hear 3rd hand, or just simply assume that "if some
is good, more must be better, and most must be best"!
I'm really not harping here, just relating a fact that I'm seeing more and
more in the past year or two. Airplane structures, systems, electronics,
etc.. are not simple "linear equations" where more of everything is better,
sometimes yes, but certainly not always.
Now I'm not saying you should abandon any improvements. Certainly there are
a some areas where people have learned by experience that additional metal,
thicker wire, etc.. are better. That being said, just because you "heard it
from some old guy who used to work on airplanes in the 40's", doesn't mean
it applies to these RV's exactly. Another reason I see people doing
"things" is that they saw or heard of someone else doing it and think by
association that therefore it must be good. Once again, sometimes yes, but
not always.
Anyway, just be smart about it and happy building. Lot's of smart people
out there building lot's of nice airplane. Many of them better than mine
(but not all)!!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV8 one piece wings skins
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
Well, the problem is we don't know what was going on in that
accident, so it is very hard to know what loads the wing experienced.
How fast were they going, what was the aircraft weight and CG, how
many g were pulled, were the ailerons deflected, etc. Yes, maybe
thicker lower wing skins could have allowed that part of the wing to
carry the loads that were applied to it. Or maybe not. And even if
that part of the wing could carry those loads, we have now changed
the way the loads are distributed on the wing, so we don't know where
the weak link is, and how much load the weakest part of the wing
could carry before it fails.
I'm aware of at least two incidents where RV-8s have had landing gear
box failure during landing, and one case where an RV-8A had a nose
wheel leg collapse. Should builders arbitrarily beef up the landing
gear box and nose landing gear legs too? Where does it end?
A heavier aircraft is less safe than a lighter aircraft, as the stall
speed is higher, which means the lowest possible touchdown speed is
higher. The structure of the heavier aircraft has to carry higher
loads for a given manoeuvre, so it is more likely to fail.
The best answer is to carefully design the aircraft to be just strong
enough to withstand the design loads, and to operate the aircraft so
the design loads are not exceeded. Just adding structure on the
"That Looks About Right" principle just changes the stress
distribution, and puts higher loads somewhere else.
I'm not a structures engineer, so all the above is worth what you
paid for it. I do have a mechanical engineering degree, but have
never really used it in anger.
Kevin Horton
Message 23
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| Subject: | RV8 one piece wings skins |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
When was the second RV-8 structural (in-flight) failure??
IMVHO, as a non-practicing engineer, I believe there would be some small
structural benefit from single piece and/or thicker wing skins. But I also
couldn't agree more that lighter airplanes are better all the way around -
more efficient, faster, less damage with hard or crash landings.
I feel very comfortable flying my -8 the way I do with standard lap-jointed
skins.
2
Bryan
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Compass liquid |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/21/2004 11:57:47 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
mailindex@juno.com writes:
Years ago, I used some baby oil. Didn't freeze and damped the compass
somewhat.
==============================================
I've always wondered whether DOT 5 brake fluid wouldn't be the most ideal
compass fluid.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 708 hrs)
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Camping at Copperstate |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/21/2004 5:04:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
svanarts@yahoo.com writes:
Anyone on the list ever tent camped at Copperstate? How's access to food?
(It's dismal if you arrive early at OSH) What's the weather like that time of
year? Would I be better off in a hotel?
=============================================
Weather is still warm. The grounds there were messy due to blowing dirt and
hay last year. We had a motel in Casa Grande and would recommend this
again, although they indicated that they were going to be planting grass thruout.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 708 hrs)
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Camping at Copperstate |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" <azpilot@extremezone.com>
Hot and cool. Could be too hot, depending on the year. They do NOT have
grass throughout. Most of it is dead, but they are trying to bring it back.
I'd recommend the motels in Casa Grande as well. I fly over (and land at)
PRA just about every day. I'll keep checking it out.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (RV-10 Soon)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Vanremog@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Camping at Copperstate
> --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
>
>
> In a message dated 8/21/2004 5:04:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> svanarts@yahoo.com writes:
>
> Anyone on the list ever tent camped at Copperstate? How's access to
food?
> (It's dismal if you arrive early at OSH) What's the weather like that
time of
> year? Would I be better off in a hotel?
>
>
> =============================================
>
> Weather is still warm. The grounds there were messy due to blowing dirt
and
> hay last year. We had a motel in Casa Grande and would recommend this
> again, although they indicated that they were going to be planting grass
thruout.
>
>
> GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 708 hrs)
>
>
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