RV-List Digest Archive

Tue 08/24/04


Total Messages Posted: 37



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:34 AM - RV-6A for sale (Jim & Bev Cone)
     2. 03:44 AM - Re: H2AD series engines (Jim Sears)
     3. 04:52 AM - "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings? (alan@reichertech.com)
     4. 05:11 AM - Re: Question for the aerodynamycists (Gordon and Marge)
     5. 06:02 AM - Re: H2AD series engines (Bill VonDane)
     6. 07:06 AM - Re: Your Big Mistake - Your Big Chance (Finn Lassen)
     7. 08:25 AM - RVs at KTOA (Eric Parlow)
     8. 08:29 AM - Re: Your Big Mistake - Your Big Chance (Kevin Horton)
     9. 08:37 AM - Re: "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings? (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
    10. 08:41 AM - Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (dmedema@att.net)
    11. 08:46 AM - Aluminum matching paints (Jack Blomgren)
    12. 09:09 AM - Garmin 296 (Ken Simmons)
    13. 09:35 AM - Re: RVs at KTOA (Skylor Piper)
    14. 09:42 AM - Re: Tie Down Strength (Chris W)
    15. 10:32 AM - Re: H2AD series engines (Jim Sears)
    16. 10:45 AM - Re: RVs at KTOA (Tim Bryan)
    17. 10:49 AM - Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (Doug Weiler)
    18. 11:28 AM - Re: "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings? (Mickey Coggins)
    19. 02:18 PM - EZ Pilot Display Choice (Grenwis@aol.com)
    20. 02:59 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice (Ollie Washburn)
    21. 03:41 PM - Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (Louis Willig)
    22. 03:48 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice (David Carter)
    23. 04:08 PM - Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (LarryRobertHelming)
    24. 04:45 PM - Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (linn walters)
    25. 05:00 PM - Adv. - Aircaft Tools from Brown Tool - Adv. (BrownTool@aol.com)
    26. 05:20 PM - prop balance (Tom Gummo)
    27. 05:24 PM - Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants (linn walters)
    28. 05:57 PM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? (cgalley)
    29. 05:57 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
    30. 05:59 PM - Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
    31. 07:15 PM - Minnesota Wing Campin/Flyin (Alex Peterson)
    32. 07:29 PM - 153MC flies today (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
    33. 08:42 PM - Re: RVs at KTOA (Dave Bristol)
    34. 09:28 PM - Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Dean Psiropoulos)
    35. 09:35 PM - Re: H2AD series engines (Jeff Bertsch)
    36. 09:35 PM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? (James E. Clark)
    37. 09:41 PM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Jerry Springer)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:34:11 AM PST US
    From: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
    Subject: RV-6A for sale
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com> It is with great joy and equally great sadness that my RV-6A is for sale. Joy because my new RV-7A with a new XP-360, C/S prop and all Glass cockpit is complete and ready to fly and sadness because I have to part with my award winning RV-6A to pay for it. N641JC has a Lycoming O-320 (300 hours since reman to factory new specs and all AD's complied with) with an Ellison Throttle Body and one Lightspeed electronic ignition. It has a Sensenich metal cruise prop. It is full IFR with a dual axis autopilot. Radio is a Narco Mark 12D+ VOR/ILS/COMM. GPS is Apollo GS 50 IFR approach certified. Narco transponder. Rocky Mtn engine monitor. Angle of Attack by Proprietary Systems. Heated pitot static probe. Lambs wool interior by D.J. Laurentsen. Interested persons can email me off list and I will send pictures and more info. Do not Archive Jim Cone jimnbev@olypen.com 3-peat offender


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:44:20 AM PST US
    From: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
    Subject: Re: H2AD series engines
    --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com> > Man am I embarrased - I only paid $3000 for my engine! > > Instead of just winning 3rd in the Sun100 (2003, 160-hp RV, 176-kts) I could > have dropped another $20-30g's and won 2nd, or maybe 1st in my class!! ;) > ;) > I love to read that kind of stuff. :-) Thankfully, the engine in question is like the Grumman-American series aircraft. Those had a reputation for being pilot unfriendly around airport bum club groups, based on stories about the early American AA1 series aircraft. Because of that, purchasing one was a terrific bang for the buck, until some of us finally found out the bums didn't know what they were talking about. I had 9 good years with my Cheetah. I thought it was easier to fly than the C172 I'd owned. Of course, the bad reputation came from poor pilotage. Those same bums didn't realize their Cessnas hid a lot of that from them, unless they were really bad pilots. :-) The H2AD engine's problems were quickly taken care of; so, they are now a great bang for the buck because the older pilots remember when they first came out, and nothing else. One can get a H2AD for a much lower price than a regular O320. The only thing I don't like about them is the placement of the fuel pump. Will Cretsinger got around that by using two electric fuel pumps with a back up battery, in case of alternator failure. Speaking of Will, he bought a used H2AD and put it right on his RV. He flew it until it was getting close to TBO. At that point, he was also thinking about selling it his RV. He couldn't make up his mind to overhaul the engine, or not. I suggested that he just buy another good H2AD and save on the overhaul. I'm not sure if he did, or not; but, it seemed like a reasonable idea, at the time. I think a replacement with some hours was going for about $2500. That was just a year, or so, ago. :-) Now, that's a good one for the budget minded. It's almost as cheap as an auto conversion. :-) Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter with over 300 tach hours on a rebuilt engine.) RV-7A #70317 (Engine is still a pile of cleaned up parts.) EAA Tech Counselor EAA Flight Advisor do not archive


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:52:22 AM PST US
    Subject: "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings?
    From: alan@reichertech.com
    --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com A quick search through archives didn't yeild anything... I've heard mention of the Super -8. Is there a web site/sites or drawings on what this entails? - Alan do not archive


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:11:39 AM PST US
    From: "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
    Subject: Question for the aerodynamycists
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo@tc3net.com> Subject: RV-List: Question for the aerodynamycists --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net> I am going to install a NACA vent on the side of the forward fuselage on the RV-4 I am rebuilding. I am thinking of installing it right below the cowl cheek angled downward so that the longitudinal axis of the vent is parallel to the logitudnal axis of the cowl cheek extension. My thought is the pressure will be positive in this area and will result in good positive airflow into the vent (this will be for fresh air ventilation to the front cockpit). Does it make an appreciable difference? As in most things the best idea would be to try it to find out but that is not practical given the hole I need to cut in the fuselage skin. I'm looking for opinions and/or experience with this location. Is my thinking sound or am I missing something? Net, net - I'd like to install on the right but the left seems like a better location. Which is best and will either work? Richard RV-4 N144KT - rising from he ashes of a 1998 landing in the trees at IGX. Richard: I cannot say which side is best, but I can tell you that the right side works very well. Mine is located on the right, vertical placement is about midway between the cowl cheek extension and the wing, inclined roughly paralleling the cheek extension and the incoming air will blow a chart out of your hands at speeds above the stall. Not much flow on the ground. Gordon Comfort N363GC


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:02:28 AM PST US
    From: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
    Subject: Re: H2AD series engines
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com> WOW! I guess I paid way too much for my engine at $6000! ...and now after my $4200 overhaul to new specs I should really hide my face in public... :) -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sears" <sears@searnet.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: H2AD series engines --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com> > Man am I embarrased - I only paid $3000 for my engine! > > Instead of just winning 3rd in the Sun100 (2003, 160-hp RV, 176-kts) I could > have dropped another $20-30g's and won 2nd, or maybe 1st in my class!! ;) > ;) > I love to read that kind of stuff. :-) Thankfully, the engine in question is like the Grumman-American series aircraft. Those had a reputation for being pilot unfriendly around airport bum club groups, based on stories about the early American AA1 series aircraft. Because of that, purchasing one was a terrific bang for the buck, until some of us finally found out the bums didn't know what they were talking about. I had 9 good years with my Cheetah. I thought it was easier to fly than the C172 I'd owned. Of course, the bad reputation came from poor pilotage. Those same bums didn't realize their Cessnas hid a lot of that from them, unless they were really bad pilots. :-) The H2AD engine's problems were quickly taken care of; so, they are now a great bang for the buck because the older pilots remember when they first came out, and nothing else. One can get a H2AD for a much lower price than a regular O320. The only thing I don't like about them is the placement of the fuel pump. Will Cretsinger got around that by using two electric fuel pumps with a back up battery, in case of alternator failure. Speaking of Will, he bought a used H2AD and put it right on his RV. He flew it until it was getting close to TBO. At that point, he was also thinking about selling it his RV. He couldn't make up his mind to overhaul the engine, or not. I suggested that he just buy another good H2AD and save on the overhaul. I'm not sure if he did, or not; but, it seemed like a reasonable idea, at the time. I think a replacement with some hours was going for about $2500. That was just a year, or so, ago. :-) Now, that's a good one for the budget minded. It's almost as cheap as an auto conversion. :-) Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter with over 300 tach hours on a rebuilt engine.) RV-7A #70317 (Engine is still a pile of cleaned up parts.) EAA Tech Counselor EAA Flight Advisor do not archive


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:06:43 AM PST US
    From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Your Big Mistake - Your Big Chance
    --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net> I started this thread and I'm actually still waiting for an answer to my questions of "how strong are the tiedown hardpoints on an RV-3?", how strong winds will they handle (assuming ropes and ground anchors stay put)? Finn Robert Hansen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Robert Hansen" <RV7@Gunsite.to> > >There is good information on this list much of the time, but it seems too >often loaded down with the chit chat of folks who want to use it as a forum >to offer opinions that have nothing to do with RVs. Like many others, I >hate it that I have to wade through tons of, "Hurricane and tie-down" >dribble to find RV stuff. > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 08:25:55 AM PST US
    From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
    Subject: RVs at KTOA
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com> Looking for info on RVs, more specifically RV-8s, at KTOA. Or surrounding airports: KSMO, KLGB, KHHR. I'm considering moving there and RV's / Airports will weigh heavily into my decision. ERic-- RV-8 Wings


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:29:31 AM PST US
    From: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Your Big Mistake - Your Big Chance
    --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com> >--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net> > >I started this thread and I'm actually still waiting for an answer to my >questions of "how strong are the tiedown hardpoints on an RV-3?", how >strong winds will they handle (assuming ropes and ground anchors stay put)? > >Finn > Finn, Your original post said "I think only two 3/16" bolts hold the tie-down pipe to the spar web." Wicks catalog gives a rated strength in shear of 2,125 lb for an AN3 bolt. It isn't clear at first glance whether this is an allowable design strength (i.e. it is acceptable to have normal design loads up to this value), or whether it is a guaranteed ultimate strength. Some other references give lower values, so I assume that 2,125 is an ultimate strength, and the other references are providing allowable design loads. Assuming 2,125 lb is an ultimate strength, two bolts would be 4,250 lb, but that assumes that the load is shared equally between the two bolts. In practice I suspect the lower bolt would get more than 50% of the load, as the tie-down pipe might stretch a bit. So you probably shouldn't count on the bolts taking more than 3,000 lb load, maybe even less. This assumes that the load is perfectly aligned with the tie down pipe. A misaligned load would probably increase the stress on the lower bolt even further. The limiting factor might be somewhere else. Depending on the thread size of the hole, and material of the tie down ring, you might find that it breaks first. Or, depending on the material and cross sectional area of the tie down pipe, perhaps it is the weak link. Or, maybe the spar itself will be the first thing damaged (hopefully not - a good design would have something else fail before the spar incurred damaging loads). What is the thread size and pitch of the tie down hole? What is the material and cross sectional area of the tie down pipe? What is the spar material and dimensions where the tie down pipe attaches to it? -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:37:32 AM PST US
    Subject: "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings?
    From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net> bXN0ZXdhcnQubmV0DQogDQptaWtlDQpkbyBub3QgYXJjaGl2ZS4NCiANCg0KCS0tLS0tT3JpZ2lu YWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0KCUZyb206IG93bmVyLXJ2LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5j b20gb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIGFsYW5AcmVpY2hlcnRlY2guY29tIA0KCVNlbnQ6IFR1ZSA4LzI0LzIw MDQgNzo1MSBBTSANCglUbzogcnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJqZWN0 OiBSVi1MaXN0OiAiU3VwZXIgUlYtOCIgd2ViIHNpdGVzIG9yIGRyYXdpbmdzPw0KCQ0KCQ0KDQoJ LS0+IFJWLUxpc3QgbWVzc2FnZSBwb3N0ZWQgYnk6IGFsYW5AcmVpY2hlcnRlY2guY29tDQoJDQoJ DQoJQSBxdWljayBzZWFyY2ggdGhyb3VnaCBhcmNoaXZlcyBkaWRuJ3QgeWVpbGQgYW55dGhpbmcu Li4NCgkNCglJJ3ZlIGhlYXJkIG1lbnRpb24gb2YgdGhlIFN1cGVyIC04LiAgSXMgdGhlcmUgYSB3 ZWIgc2l0ZS9zaXRlcyBvciBkcmF3aW5ncw0KCW9uIHdoYXQgdGhpcyBlbnRhaWxzPw0KCQ0KCS0g QWxhbg0KCQ0KCWRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoJDQoJDQoJXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCglfLT0g ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFJWLUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KCV8tPSBUaGlzIGZvcnVt IGlzIHNwb25zb3JlZCBlbnRpcmVseSB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBDb250cmlidXRpb25zDQoJXy09IG9m IExpc3QgbWVtYmVycy4gIFlvdSdsbCBuZXZlciBzZWUgYmFubmVyIGFkcyBvciBhbnkgb3RoZXIN CglfLT0gZm9ybSBvZiBkaXJlY3QgYWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcgb24gdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBGb3J1bXMu DQoJXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCglfLT0gISEgTkVXICEhDQoJXy09IEFMTCBORVcgTElTVCBD SEFUISEgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2NoYXQNCglfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0K CV8tPSBMaXN0IFJlbGF0ZWQgSW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCglfLT0gIFBvc3QgTWVzc2FnZTogICBydi1s aXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCglfLT0gIFVOL1NVQlNDUklCRTogICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20vc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uDQoJXy09ICBMaXN0IEZBUTogICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5t YXRyb25pY3MuY29tL0ZBUS9SVi1MaXN0Lmh0bQ0KCV8tPSAgU2VhcmNoIEVuZ2luZTogIGh0dHA6 Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9zZWFyY2gNCglfLT0gIDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZTogICBodHRwOi8v d3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vYnJvd3NlL3J2LWxpc3QNCglfLT0gIEJyb3dzZSBEaWdlc3RzOiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vZGlnZXN0L3J2LWxpc3QNCglfLT0gIExpdmUgTGlzdCBD aGF0OiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY2hhdA0KCV8tPSAgQXJjaGl2ZXM6ICAgICAg IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9hcmNoaXZlcw0KCV8tPSAgUGhvdG8gU2hhcmU6ICAg IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9waG90b3NoYXJlDQoJXy09ICBMaXN0IFNwZWNpZmlj OiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL3J2LWxpc3QNCglfLT0gIE90aGVyIExpc3RzOiAg ICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vZW1haWxsaXN0cw0KCV8tPSAgVHJvdWJsZSBSZXBv cnQgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS90cm91YmxlLXJlcG9ydA0KCV8tPSAgQ29udHJp YnV0aW9uczogIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCglfLT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KDQo


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:41:33 AM PST US
    From: dmedema@att.net
    Subject: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    0.7 RCVD_BY_IP Received by mail server with no name 0.5 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.0 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled bolts now standard? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM <!-- BEGIN WEBMAIL STATIONERY --> <style type='text/css'> p { margin: 0px; } </style> <!-- WEBMAIL STATIONERY noneset --> I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled bolts now standard? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM <!-- END WEBMAIL STATIONERY -->


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:46:43 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Aluminum matching paints
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet@hotmail.com> Painting Gurus, Say you only wanted to paint your RV's fairings, tips, pants, skirt, you know, the glass parts, to sort of fool the non-RV world that it's all aluminum, what paint would you choose, and maybe why? I see PPG has all those "Mist" names for what-- on the computer screen-- look to be aluminum-like paints for Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.. But some of you must already have worked out this not-as-easy-as-it-looks problem. [No pun intended] Thanks, Jack -8 http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:09:23 AM PST US
    From: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
    Subject: Garmin 296
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com> Anyone have an idea of when Garmin will end their no-discount threat on the Garmin 296? Is this a new tactic they're trying or is there some historical evidence of how long they usually do this for a new product? Thanks. Ken DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:35:57 AM PST US
    From: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: RVs at KTOA
    --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com> Eric, The RV population at Torrance is growing rapidly. I'm building an 8 QB with my father, and there is another flying 8A based there. There are also several 6's and 4's on the field, and at least 1 F1 Rocket under construction. Skylor Piper RV-8 QB Under Construction N808SJ Reserved --- Eric Parlow <ericparlow@hotmail.com> wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" > <ericparlow@hotmail.com> > > Looking for info on RVs, more specifically RV-8s, > at KTOA. > > Or surrounding airports: KSMO, KLGB, KHHR. > > I'm considering moving there and RV's / Airports > will weigh heavily into my > decision. > > ERic-- > RV-8 Wings > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:42:16 AM PST US
    From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: Tie Down Strength
    --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Finn Lassen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net> > >I started this thread and I'm actually still waiting for an answer to my >questions of "how strong are the tiedown hardpoints on an RV-3?", how >strong winds will they handle (assuming ropes and ground anchors stay put)? > > I'm not sure there is an answer to you question, but I can make a guess. According to the McMaster catalog a plain steel 3/8 inch eyebolt has a load rating of 1,300 lbs. Since on the RV the eyebolt is screwed into aluminum alloy threads, and a good aluminum alloy is close to the strength of a plain unalloyed steel, I would tend the think the load ratting would be at most that of the plain steel eyebolt, 1,300 lbs. Now the question becomes how much wind do you need to produce 1300 lbs of lift on each wing with the plane in tail wheel attitude. Just a wild guess here but I am pretty sure that it would be less than 100 mph. Of course if you attach some kind of stall strip to the top of the wing it would help. That brings up an idea I had for people who commonly tie down their RV in high winds. Why not modify the tie down hard point so you can screw into it from the bottom and top of the wing, then add a second one some distance away from the first. It would then be very easy to bolt an aluminum angle or just a 2 x 4 to the top of the wing to kill the lift from strong winds. -- Chris W Bring Back the HP 15C http://hp15c.org Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. http://thewishzone.com


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:32:58 AM PST US
    From: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
    Subject: Re: H2AD series engines
    --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com> > WOW! I guess I paid way too much for my engine at $6000! ...and now after > my $4200 overhaul to new specs I should really hide my face in public... :) > That's how it works with inflation or having someone let the word get out. :-) Jim in KY do not archive


    Message 16


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    Time: 10:45:49 AM PST US
    From: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
    Subject: Re: RVs at KTOA
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com> Hi Eric, Check out this fantastic tool that Dan put together. It is at: http://www.rvproject.com/registry/rvfinder.jsp Tim Bryan RV-6 N616TB -------Original Message------- From: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RVs at KTOA --> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com> Looking for info on RVs, more specifically RV-8s, at KTOA. Or surrounding airports: KSMO, KLGB, KHHR. I'm considering moving there and RV's / Airports will weigh heavily into my decision. ERic-- RV-8 Wings


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:49:09 AM PST US
    From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com>
    Subject: Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com> I do not have these bolts safetied and have never had them come loose. You are going into a locking nutplate anyway. Doug Weiler RV-4 120 hours.. still in the paint shop in Tuscaloosa. > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > > I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: > The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside > bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my > wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into > a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to > buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? > Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled > bolts now standard? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema


    Message 18


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    Time: 11:28:09 AM PST US
    From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
    Subject: "Super RV-8" web sites or drawings?
    local> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch> Hi Alan, Michael Stewart has some good information on the web here: http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/ Mickey >A quick search through archives didn't yeild anything... > >I've heard mention of the Super -8. Is there a web site/sites or drawings >on what this entails? > >- Alan -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage


    Message 19


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    Time: 02:18:22 PM PST US
    From: Grenwis@aol.com
    Subject: EZ Pilot Display Choice
    --> RV-List message posted by: Grenwis@aol.com For those that have used them, which display (LCD or VFD) is more readable in an RV cockpit? Rick Grenwis RV6A QB - Panel - CoSpgs, CO


    Message 20


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    Time: 02:59:35 PM PST US
    From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net>
    Subject: Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net> Rick, I have RV6A with the sun shade and I first had the LCD as many RVers said that was best with all the light in the RV.However with the sun shade my poor old eyes couldn't see the display so I called them and they put the vfd display in for me which while not perfect is much better than before. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: <Grenwis@aol.com> Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice > --> RV-List message posted by: Grenwis@aol.com > > For those that have used them, which display (LCD or VFD) is more readable > in an RV cockpit? > > Rick Grenwis > RV6A QB - Panel - CoSpgs, CO > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 03:41:12 PM PST US
    From: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    --> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net> At 11:41 AM 8/24/2004, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > >I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: >The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside >bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my >wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into >a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to >buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? >Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled >bolts now standard? Doug, The hex head bold that held the wheel pant onto the outside bracket on my RV-4 used to come loose all the time. I disregarded it one time too many, and upon landing one day, the bolt fell out completely, and the wheel pant was twisted around by the tire and the backing plate was destroyed. I have a new backing plate and repaired the cosmetic damage to the wheel pant, BUT I now use a simple split lock washer. 350 additional hours and no problem. I don't know where you would secure a safety wire to. Louis - Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop


    Message 22


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    Time: 03:48:29 PM PST US
    From: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
    Subject: Re: EZ Pilot Display Choice
    --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net> What is a VFD display? David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net> > > Rick, I have RV6A with the sun shade and I first had the LCD as many RVers > said that was best with all the light in the RV.However with the sun shade > my poor old eyes couldn't see the display so I called them and they put the > vfd display in for me which while not perfect is much better than before. > Ollie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Grenwis@aol.com> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Grenwis@aol.com > > > > For those that have used them, which display (LCD or VFD) is more readable > > in an RV cockpit? > > > > Rick Grenwis > > RV6A QB - Panel - CoSpgs, CO > > > > > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:08:02 PM PST US
    From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
    Subject: Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net> My kit came with bolts to be safeywired. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts, in being a dependable person. - Richard L. Evans ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com> > > I do not have these bolts safetied and have never had them come loose. You > are going into a locking nutplate anyway. > > Doug Weiler > RV-4 120 hours.. still in the paint shop in Tuscaloosa. > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > > > > I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: > > The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside > > bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my > > wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into > > a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to > > buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? > > Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled > > bolts now standard? > > > > Thanks, > > Doug Medema > >


    Message 24


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    Time: 04:45:21 PM PST US
    From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com> To answer the question that Louis posed: Drill a hole in the wheel pant near the bolt and put a cotter pin in there with the loop on the inside. Safety the bolt to the cotter pin. Linn Louis Willig wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net> > >At 11:41 AM 8/24/2004, you wrote: > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net >> >>I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: >>The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside >>bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my >>wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into >>a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to >>buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? >>Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled >>bolts now standard? >> >> > >Doug, > >The hex head bold that held the wheel pant onto the outside bracket on my >RV-4 used to come loose all the time. I disregarded it one time too many, >and upon landing one day, the bolt fell out completely, and the wheel pant >was twisted around by the tire and the backing plate was destroyed. I have >a new backing plate and repaired the cosmetic damage to the wheel pant, BUT >I now use a simple split lock washer. 350 additional hours and no problem. >I don't know where you would secure a safety wire to. > >Louis > > >- >Louis I Willig >1640 Oakwood Dr. >Penn Valley, PA 19072 >610 668-4964 >RV-4, N180PF >190HP IO-360, C/S prop > > > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 05:00:47 PM PST US
    From: BrownTool@aol.com
    Subject: Adv. - Aircaft Tools from Brown Tool - Adv.
    --> RV-List message posted by: BrownTool@aol.com This is an ADVERTISEMENT - DO NOT ARCHIVE Just a quick message to let all of our RV customers know we have just received a large shipment of surplus aircraft tools from a major airframe manufacturer including: 90 Degree Threaded Drill Motors, Sealant Guns, and Drill Attachments - complete descriptions, pictures, and pricing are available on our website at: www.BROWNTOOL.com This is a great opportunity to purchase high quality, industrial grade aircraft tools at a fraction of their new cost. We are also featuring our brand new Hi-Force Pneumatic "C" Rivet Squeezer complete with 1-1/2" Jaw for only $479.95 Thanks ! Michael Brown Brown Aviation Tool Supply Co. 3801 S. Meridian Ave. Oklahoma City, OK 73119 1-800-587-3883 405-688-6888 DO NOT ARCHIVE


    Message 26


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    Time: 05:20:22 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
    "Rocket List" <rocket-list@matronics.com>, "SoCal RV List" <socal-rvlist@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: prop balance
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net> Someone one on one of these lists asked about a prop balance in Bakersfield. I was at the Apple Valley Airport and a car when by with the words prop balance on the door. I asked if he when to B-field. He ask yes. Don't know anything else about him. Donald Allison A&P IA ATP FE 1 - 760 - 242 -0121 Hope this helps. DO NOT ARCHIVE .. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html


    Message 27


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    Time: 05:24:15 PM PST US
    From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
    Subject: Re: Safety wiring bolts for wheel pants
    --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com> I apologize for the multiple posts ...... but put the cotter pin loop on the OUTSIDE. 'Course you probably already knew that! ;-) Linn linn walters wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com> > >To answer the question that Louis posed: Drill a hole in the wheel pant >near the bolt and put a cotter pin in there with the loop on the >inside. Safety the bolt to the cotter pin. >Linn >Louis Willig wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Louis Willig <larywil@comcast.net> >> >>At 11:41 AM 8/24/2004, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net >>> >>>I finished installing my wheel pants last night and have one question: >>>The plans say to safety wire the bolt head that holds the outside >>>bracket to the large axle nut. However, the bolts supplied in my >>>wheel pants kit don't have drilled heads. Also, the bolts go into >>>a nutplate that has the usual anti-vibration crimp. Do I need to >>>buy new drilled head bolts or is the nutplate crimp sufficient? >>>Have others received drilled head bolts or are regular un-drilled >>>bolts now standard? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Doug, >> >>The hex head bold that held the wheel pant onto the outside bracket on my >>RV-4 used to come loose all the time. I disregarded it one time too many, >>and upon landing one day, the bolt fell out completely, and the wheel pant >>was twisted around by the tire and the backing plate was destroyed. I have >>a new backing plate and repaired the cosmetic damage to the wheel pant, BUT >>I now use a simple split lock washer. 350 additional hours and no problem. >>I don't know where you would secure a safety wire to. >> >>Louis >> >> >>- >>Louis I Willig >>1640 Oakwood Dr. >>Penn Valley, PA 19072 >>610 668-4964 >>RV-4, N180PF >>190HP IO-360, C/S prop >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >


    Message 28


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    Time: 05:57:14 PM PST US
    From: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
    Subject: Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)????????
    --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org> If you have an attachment then the sending address is spoofed. All attachments on the Matronics list are stripped. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> > > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an "attachment"? > > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be protected by virus > protection s/w) > > James > >


    Message 29


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    Time: 05:57:44 PM PST US
    Subject: EZ Pilot Display Choice
    From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net> Directly from their website. Bright VFD or Backlit LCD Display Trying to read the LCD (liquid crystal display) screen on most handheld and many panel mounted GPS receivers can be difficult in poor lighting conditions. The EZ Pilot overcomes this difficulty by providing a bright vacuum fluorescent display (VFD) to present information to the pilot. While this is the optimum solution in a majority of applications, it may tend to "wash out" in direct sunlight. In aircraft that experience a lot of direct sunlight on their instrument panels, an LCD option (backlit for night operation) is also available. ====== From here: http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Bright_VFD_Display ====== Get the LCD display and hang on to your seat when you fly with this little gem. It will exceed your expectation for price and performance. Nothing in my glass cockpit, dual EI plane performs as well at this price point. Nothing even comes close actually. Regards, Mike Stewart Got 2 of em now. Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Carter Subject: Re: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net> What is a VFD display? David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a@prodigy.net> > > Rick, I have RV6A with the sun shade and I first had the LCD as many RVers > said that was best with all the light in the RV.However with the sun shade > my poor old eyes couldn't see the display so I called them and they put the > vfd display in for me which while not perfect is much better than before. > Ollie > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Grenwis@aol.com> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Grenwis@aol.com > > > > For those that have used them, which display (LCD or VFD) is more readable > > in an RV cockpit? > > > > Rick Grenwis > > RV6A QB - Panel - CoSpgs, CO > > > > > > == == == ==


    Message 30


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    Time: 05:59:45 PM PST US
    Subject: EZ Pilot Display Choice
    From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net> Hands down lcd. Do not put the vfd in your rv. They changed to the lcd based on feedback from the field. Mike Stewart Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Grenwis@aol.com Subject: RV-List: EZ Pilot Display Choice --> RV-List message posted by: Grenwis@aol.com For those that have used them, which display (LCD or VFD) is more readable in an RV cockpit? Rick Grenwis RV6A QB - Panel - CoSpgs, CO == == == ==


    Message 31


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    Time: 07:15:53 PM PST US
    From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Minnesota Wing Campin/Flyin
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net> Just a reminder to all of you - our fall picnic/flyin/campin is only a little more than two weeks away. The date of the picnic is Saturday, September 11th. For those interested, there will be camping also Friday and Saturday nights. We are holding it a beautiful 3800' grass strip just into Wisconsin from Minneapolis. For details see: http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/mnwing/id18.htm This is a really fun group, and we hope to see you there!!! Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 516 hours http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/


    Message 32


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    Time: 07:29:14 PM PST US
    From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
    "rvyahoo" <RV10@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: 153MC flies today
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net> Had a great day today, took RV-6A 153MC off the ground for the fist time today. Subsequently put 7 hours on it with out a hitch, god I love VAN'S stuff. O-360-A1A Holy Cowl with plenum NACA scoop for oil cooler Fixed pitch basic panel after 4 RV's I still get that RV grin :>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 noel@blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/> www.blueskyaviation.net


    Message 33


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    Time: 08:42:42 PM PST US
    From: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
    Subject: Re: RVs at KTOA
    on zoot.lafn.org --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org> Eric, You left out CPM. We've got a 6, 6A, 3 - 4's and a just minted Rocket. The 8's seem to be at TOA... maybe they need the longer runway? 8 > ) Dave RV6 Eric Parlow wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com> > >Looking for info on RVs, more specifically RV-8s, at KTOA. > >Or surrounding airports: KSMO, KLGB, KHHR. > >I'm considering moving there and RV's / Airports will weigh heavily into my >decision. > >ERic-- >RV-8 Wings > > > >


    Message 34


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    Time: 09:28:44 PM PST US
    From: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
    Subject: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
    --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com> Ok Sam Buchanan: After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list, you've finally answered part of my questions to you. Specifically that the Navaid works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full potential. Great, that's good to hear. NOW..could you please tell me and the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital autopilots are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody else says that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by someone who's used it quit a bit lately??? Don't worry about stirring up a hornets nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest of the information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!! Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Panel and wiring


    Message 35


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    Time: 09:35:22 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: H2AD series engines
    --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com> I had an O-320H2AD engine in my C-172. I had it overhauled and ran it for 2400 hours with absolutely no significant problems. The only thing that gave me problems was the dual mag, which is a pain to work on and I don't think is a good idea. The engine compression was still in the mid to low 70's when I sold it. It was a great engine. We used Aeroshell 15w-50 which is required by AD (or you can use the Lyc additive). But I believe the real key is the plane flew frequently and never sat for more than 2 or 3 days without being flown. Jeff Bertsch lonestarsquadron.com ---------------------------------


    Message 36


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    Time: 09:35:27 PM PST US
    From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
    Subject: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)????????
    --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> Thanks. It seems to have stopped after a few emails. Hmmmm, James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of cgalley > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2004 8:56 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a > virus)???????? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org> > > If you have an attachment then the sending address is spoofed. All > attachments on the Matronics list are stripped. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com> > Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a > virus)???????? > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" > <james@nextupventures.com> > > > > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an > "attachment"? > > > > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be protected by virus > > protection s/w) > > > > James > > > > > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 09:41:56 PM PST US
    From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
    --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net> Dean Psiropoulos wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com> > > Ok Sam Buchanan: > > >After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list, you've >finally answered part of my questions to you. Specifically that the Navaid >works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full >potential. Great, that's good to hear. NOW..could you please tell me and >the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that >you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital autopilots >are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody else says >that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by someone >who's used it quit a bit lately??? Don't worry about stirring up a hornets >nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest of the >information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!! > > >Dean Psiropoulos > >RV-6A N197DM > >Panel and wiring > > > Dean, I believe Sam has addressed that on list in the past. do not archive




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