Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: H2AD series engines (linn walters)
2. 05:30 AM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Shemp)
3. 05:43 AM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? (Alex Peterson)
4. 05:49 AM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? (Shemp)
5. 05:58 AM - Re: Aluminum matching paints (Rick Galati)
6. 06:26 AM - super 8 (Frazier, Vincent A)
7. 06:37 AM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Sam Buchanan)
8. 06:55 AM - Re: RVs at KTOA (Eric Parlow)
9. 07:02 AM - Re: Re: H2AD series engines (cgalley)
10. 07:18 AM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? (David Carter)
11. 07:25 AM - Re: super 8 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
12. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Aluminum matching paints (Eric Irwin)
13. 08:19 AM - Re: super 8 (RV_8 Pilot)
14. 08:33 AM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Tim Bryan)
15. 09:03 AM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Sam Buchanan)
16. 09:06 AM - Re: Aluminum matching paints (DAVID REEL)
17. 09:31 AM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
18. 09:43 AM - Need Compass (Chuck Weyant)
19. 09:46 AM - Re: super 8 (Bob Japundza)
20. 09:46 AM - Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a (Matt Dralle)
21. 09:56 AM - Re: Need Compass (jammeter@comcast.net)
22. 10:10 AM - Public Service Announcement: EAA Chapter 60 Fly-In Pig Roast (Ken Brooks)
23. 10:33 AM - Re: super 8 (Doug Rozendaal)
24. 10:37 AM - Re: Aluminum matching paints (Kathleen (rv7))
25. 10:47 AM - Re: Need Compass (Chuck Weyant)
26. 11:02 AM - Re: super 8 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
27. 12:06 PM - "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif (Garey Wittich)
28. 12:06 PM - Re: super 8 (Skylor Piper)
29. 12:11 PM - Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! (Tim Bryan)
30. 01:25 PM - Re: "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif (Laird Owens)
31. 02:13 PM - Re: Need Compass (Albert Gardner)
32. 02:17 PM - Re: super 8 (Bob Japundza)
33. 02:44 PM - IFR instruments (Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis))
34. 02:52 PM - Re: super 8 (Kevin Horton)
35. 03:36 PM - Re: super 8 (Bob Japundza)
36. 06:54 PM - Re: super 8 (Stein Bruch)
37. 07:12 PM - Re: RV8-List: IFR instruments (Jerry Hansen)
38. 07:23 PM - Re: super 8 (John Danielson)
39. 07:29 PM - Re: super 8 (Jim Anglin)
40. 07:49 PM - A peek into the future?? (Sam Buchanan)
41. 07:49 PM - Paint Matching Aluminum (Jim Duckett)
42. 07:52 PM - Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Doug Weiler)
43. 08:03 PM - Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Sam Buchanan)
44. 08:28 PM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Jaye and Scott Jackson)
45. 09:05 PM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Scott Vanartsdalen)
46. 09:11 PM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Terry Watson)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: H2AD series engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jeff Bertsch wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
>
>I had an O-320H2AD engine in my C-172. I had it overhauled and ran it for 2400
hours with absolutely no significant problems. The only thing that gave me
problems was the dual mag, which is a pain to work on and I don't think is a good
idea.
>
Aha! I'm a little slow. Couldn't figure out what all the fuss was
about with the dual mag ..... it's missing the 's'!!! Until the
electronic ignitions came along they all had dual mags :-D . I thought
it was a typo! I've known them as 'siamese mags' ..... and there really
is still two. And I agree ..... not my first choice .... nor second ;-)
. However, they still have a good track record for failures ..... can't
really compare them with separate mags ...... no data ...... but AFAIK,
after the initial problems were addressed, the O-320-H2AD is just as
solid as it's bretheren.
Linn
> The engine compression was still in the mid to low 70's when I sold it. It
was a great engine. We used Aeroshell 15w-50 which is required by AD (or you
can use the Lyc additive). But I believe the real key is the plane flew frequently
and never sat for more than 2 or 3 days without being flown.
>
>Jeff Bertsch
>lonestarsquadron.com
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
I cant reply about the ez pilot but I sure can add some praise for the
venerable old Nav-aid. Once I got the servo arm length adjusted to match
the trim knob, it has worked great. I so far haven't found a need for using
a course intercept function yet. The only feature that I would say is
better in the new digital a/p's is the pictorial display for your turn
coordinator if you ever really get in a pinch. However, considering the
amount of planes out there now with some kind of EFIS and a backup vacuum
system, I dont see the need to upgrade to one of the new systems. If you're
starting from scratch, you'll have to weigh the cost differences yourself.
It may be worth the extra bucks to get current technology.
Shemp
RV-6a/ 100 hours
Chicago/ Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
Subject: RV-List: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos"
<deanpsir@easystreet.com>
>
> Ok Sam Buchanan:
>
>
> After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list, you've
> finally answered part of my questions to you. Specifically that the
Navaid
> works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full
> potential. Great, that's good to hear. NOW..could you please tell me and
> the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that
> you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital autopilots
> are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody else
says
> that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by
someone
> who's used it quit a bit lately??? Don't worry about stirring up a
hornets
> nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest of
the
> information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!!
>
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
>
> RV-6A N197DM
>
> Panel and wiring
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
James is not the only one - since yesterday, all the messages from the
list have a text attachment, which is simply a copy of the message.
This has happened in the past, no clue what is going on. Other emails I
have received, not from the list, also have the attachment occasionally,
so it is likely not anything the list is generating. No clue.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 516 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> If you have an attachment then the sending address is
> spoofed. All attachments on the Matronics list are stripped.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I
> have a virus)????????
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> > --> <james@nextupventures.com>
> >
> > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an
> > "attachment"?
> >
> > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be
> protected by virus
> > protection s/w)
> >
> > James
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Shemp" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Im not getting any attachments???
do not archive
shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a
virus)????????
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> James is not the only one - since yesterday, all the messages from the
> list have a text attachment, which is simply a copy of the message.
> This has happened in the past, no clue what is going on. Other emails I
> have received, not from the list, also have the attachment occasionally,
> so it is likely not anything the list is generating. No clue.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 516 hours
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > If you have an attachment then the sending address is
> > spoofed. All attachments on the Matronics list are stripped.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I
> > have a virus)????????
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> > > --> <james@nextupventures.com>
> > >
> > > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an
> > > "attachment"?
> > >
> > > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be
> > protected by virus
> > > protection s/w)
> > >
> > > James
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum matching paints |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Judging from the underwhelming response to your interesting query I too must, (for
the moment at least) conclude attaining such a polished look with paint is
not quite as easy as we may want.
Like you Jack, I have often wondered about the very same issue. AirVenture past,
I approached an RV with some fairings that seemed to sport the closest match
I had ever seen that attained the look of polished aluminum. I tipped my cap
to the builder but was a bit crestfallen to discover the shiny new fairings were
indeed aluminum!
Bear with me for a brief wild-eyed and quixotic moment. Has anyone ever successfully
CLAD the fairings with some suitable material......maybe something sharing
similiar qualities with the shiny self adhesive heat reflective shielding
some of us apply to the interior of the lower cowl? Does some shrinkable and
long lasting material exist (perhaps known within in the RC world) that can be
successfully applied to the complex surfaces of fiberglass fairings that matches
the look of polished aluminum, but will over the long term, withstand the
environment in which it will serve? To date, I have simply not observed a paint
application that convincingly matches the look of polished aluminum. I only
want to do this once. Short of carving form blocks, mastering 3003 alloy, dollys,
and an english wheel, what's a simple homebuilder to do?
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
Painting Gurus,
Say you only wanted to paint your RV's fairings, tips, pants, skirt, you
know, the glass parts, to sort of fool the non-RV world that it's all
aluminum, what paint would you choose, and maybe why? I see PPG has all
those "Mist" names for what-- on the computer screen-- look to be
aluminum-like paints for Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.. But some of you must
already have worked out this not-as-easy-as-it-looks problem. [No pun
intended] Thanks,
Jack -8
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
SNIP
Michael Stewart has some good information on the web here:
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/ SNIP
From the website above:
SNIP The Rockets are sexy and look great, but... I dont like the
steel tube round gear. Wiggly wobblySNIP
Ahem, the Rocket gear is not steel tube. Nor is it any more wiggly,
wobbly than an RV-4, 6,or 7 gear. Wood stiffeners are required and will
add about 37 cents to the cost of this project.
SNIP But, if you fly the plane within the standard RV envelope for acro,
and cruise around at 220, then it has been demonstrated you will
probably not die. Your results may vary. SNIP
All I can say is that no Rocket has ever shed its wings. Why would
anyone want to put a 6 cylinder on an RV-8? Geez, put on an IO-360 and
live with the measely 200HP.
Super sixers, I hope your wings always arrive at the same place as your
airframe. This is a penny-wise, pound-foolish project if I ever saw
one. If money is your motivation to do this, then buy a SLOW BUILD
Harmon kit from John and the cost will still be as cheap as an RV.
Sorry for the flames... but better to have flames online than at the
crash site!!!
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
>
> Ok Sam Buchanan:
>
>
> After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list, you've
> finally answered part of my questions to you.
Good morning, Dean!
I don't know what happened to the email you sent me since I never
received it, but I am glad some (or maybe all as you will see shortly)
of your questions have been answered.
Specifically that the Navaid
> works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full
> potential. Great, that's good to hear.
The Navaid does indeed work well most of the time once you figure it out
but the key is "full potential". The full potential of the analog Navaid
falls way short of the capabilities of the digital units. This isn't a
slam against Navaid or its manufacturer, just a reflection of analog vs
digital technology.
NOW..could you please tell me and
> the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that
> you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital autopilots
> are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody else says
> that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by someone
> who's used it quit a bit lately???
Dean, an archive search of the list will pull up several posts I have
made concerning the EZ-Pilot. Or you can just hit this page on my web
site to see some of the earliest posts:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/EZ_Pilot.htm
Hopefully you will consider these posts to be "good solid information". :-)
The Navaid servo, even though designed many years ago, works beautifully
with the digital control heads. It is an elegantly simple design that
has proved to be reliable in many, many experimental planes. However,
its days are numbered since all the digital manufacturers have either
released their own modern servos or soon will. But for pilots who
already have a Navaid installation, the old servo will deliver fine
performance with the new autopilots that are designed to interface with it.
Don't worry about stirring up a hornets
> nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest of the
> information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!!
I'm not worried in the least about stirring up the TruTrak folks; they
are very capable of presenting their line of fine equipment on their
own. Remember, I am a TruTrak customer since I fly their excellent
AlTrak. TruTrak approached me about doing some beta testing of their
Navaid version of the DigiTrak but since I already had the EZ-Pilot
installed and was very pleased with it and the fine support of Trio
Avionics I didn't see any point in getting in the middle of a
competitive situation.
Dean, you can download the installation and user manuals of both the
EZ-Pilot and the DigiTrak from the respective websites. There are no
secrets or black magic involved with these units; the info is right out
in the open to anybody who does their homework. I'm not sure what other
information you are seeking but I think a careful reading of the manuals
will answer your questions. If not, don't hesitate to reply and I and
other autopilot users, regardless of brand, will attempt to fill in the
gaps.
Now.....maybe I coughed up a bib-full..... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Tim,
Thanks for the link.
I had forgotten about it.
I found 20 within 25 miles!
ERic-
RV-8 Wings
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RVs at KTOA
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Hi Eric,
Check out this fantastic tool that Dan put together. It is at:
http://www.rvproject.com/registry/rvfinder.jsp
Tim Bryan
RV-6
N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: RVs at KTOA
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow@hotmail.com>
Looking for info on RVs, more specifically RV-8s, at KTOA.
Or surrounding airports: KSMO, KLGB, KHHR.
I'm considering moving there and RV's / Airports will weigh heavily into my
decision.
ERic--
RV-8 Wings
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: H2AD series engines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
NO! The dual MAG (no s) is a single unit with two mags inside. One drive but
two mags (2000 series Bendix)
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: H2AD series engines
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Jeff Bertsch wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
> >
> >I had an O-320H2AD engine in my C-172. I had it overhauled and ran it
for 2400 hours with absolutely no significant problems. The only thing that
gave me problems was the dual mag, which is a pain to work on and I don't
think is a good idea.
> >
> Aha! I'm a little slow. Couldn't figure out what all the fuss was
> about with the dual mag ..... it's missing the 's'!!! Until the
> electronic ignitions came along they all had dual mags :-D . I thought
> it was a typo! I've known them as 'siamese mags' ..... and there really
> is still two. And I agree ..... not my first choice .... nor second ;-)
> . However, they still have a good track record for failures ..... can't
> really compare them with separate mags ...... no data ...... but AFAIK,
> after the initial problems were addressed, the O-320-H2AD is just as
> solid as it's bretheren.
> Linn
>
> > The engine compression was still in the mid to low 70's when I sold it.
It was a great engine. We used Aeroshell 15w-50 which is required by AD (or
you can use the Lyc additive). But I believe the real key is the plane flew
frequently and never sat for more than 2 or 3 days without being flown.
> >
> >Jeff Bertsch
> >lonestarsquadron.com
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a virus)???????? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
On my computer, I get an "html attachment" IF the sender sent his e-mail in
HTML format (to show color, photos, etc). That is due to a setting in
Inbox-Outlook Express e-mail pgm - click Format, and see if Plain Text has a
dot to left of it. That blocks display of the html content. If you click
"HTML" then any e-mail sent in html format will display normally.
However, none of the e-mails I get from RV-list or AeroElectric list have
this "html attachment" because I believe Matt does not allow attachments and
I suppose he sends out all the e-mails in txt format.
I keep HTML turned off as a security precaution due to a security
vulnerability of Microsoft's e-mail pgm wherein malicious code can be
embedded in an HTML format e-mai.
So, I suspect that the address is spoofed and it is malicious e-mail, as
someone below explained.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a
virus)????????
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> James is not the only one - since yesterday, all the messages from the
> list have a text attachment, which is simply a copy of the message.
> This has happened in the past, no clue what is going on. Other emails I
> have received, not from the list, also have the attachment occasionally,
> so it is likely not anything the list is generating. No clue.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 516 hours
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> >
> > If you have an attachment then the sending address is
> > spoofed. All attachments on the Matronics list are stripped.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I
> > have a virus)????????
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> > > --> <james@nextupventures.com>
> > >
> > > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an
> > > "attachment"?
> > >
> > > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be
> > protected by virus
> > > protection s/w)
> > >
> > > James
>
>
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
All good points Vince. Let me work em.
1. Perhaps "steel tube" was the wrong choice of words. I was trying to
differentiate between the flat stock 8 gear that does not shake the
plane at any speeds, and the solid tube steel round gear of the F-1
which exhibits the same gear leg shake as does the other RV series
planes of the same design. The F-1 does have longer gear which I think
exacerbates the problem. Having flown next to, section take off and
landed with, played airborn next to the F-1, I have experienced this for
myself.
2. You said " Why would anyone want to put a 6 cylinder on an RV-8?
Geez, put on an IO-360 and live with the measely 200HP." My response is
I don't want to live with 200. I want to live with 260 and have the many
attributes of the 8 which I listed on my website that clearly spell out
my reasons for doing such a thing so I wont rehash them here.
3. You said " If money is your motivation to do this, then buy a SLOW
BUILD
Harmon kit from John and the cost will still be as cheap as an RV." My
response is I want the attributes of the 8, not 4, plain and simple.
And I don't want to slow build a Harmon 4.
5. You said "All I can say is that no Rocket has ever shed its wings."
And you are correct. Although the sample size if small.
4. And finally you said " Sorry for the flames... but better to have
flames online than at the crash site!!!" No flames seen and all good
comments Vince. I do respect your thoughts and they are all very worthy
of consideration of my self and others risk/reward management. This
Super 8 is not for the masses.
Kind Regards,
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier,
Vincent A
Subject: RV-List: super 8
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
SNIP
Michael Stewart has some good information on the web here:
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/ SNIP
From the website above:
SNIP The Rockets are sexy and look great, but... I dont like the
steel tube round gear. Wiggly wobblySNIP
Ahem, the Rocket gear is not steel tube. Nor is it any more wiggly,
wobbly than an RV-4, 6,or 7 gear. Wood stiffeners are required and will
add about 37 cents to the cost of this project.
SNIP But, if you fly the plane within the standard RV envelope for acro,
and cruise around at 220, then it has been demonstrated you will
probably not die. Your results may vary. SNIP
All I can say is that no Rocket has ever shed its wings. Why would
anyone want to put a 6 cylinder on an RV-8? Geez, put on an IO-360 and
live with the measely 200HP.
Super sixers, I hope your wings always arrive at the same place as your
airframe. This is a penny-wise, pound-foolish project if I ever saw
one. If money is your motivation to do this, then buy a SLOW BUILD
Harmon kit from John and the cost will still be as cheap as an RV.
Sorry for the flames... but better to have flames online than at the
crash site!!!
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
==
==
==
==
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aluminum matching paints |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eric Irwin" <rv6eric@myacc.net>
Hey guys. I came across a paint product that is being marketed to
custom motorcycle builders that you might be interested in. This
company has a paint with a chrome finish and one with an aluminum finish
(plus a lot of other cool paints). I have never seen it myself, but you
can check out some pictures on their web site. Here is a link directly
to the page with their chrome paints: http://www.alsacorp.com/chrome.htm
Maybe this can give you the finish you are looking for. If you end up
trying it, let me know how it works out.
Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Galati
Subject: RV-List: Re: Aluminum matching paints
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Judging from the underwhelming response to your interesting query I too
must, (for the moment at least) conclude attaining such a polished look
with paint is not quite as easy as we may want.
Like you Jack, I have often wondered about the very same issue.
AirVenture past, I approached an RV with some fairings that seemed to
sport the closest match I had ever seen that attained the look of
polished aluminum. I tipped my cap to the builder but was a bit
crestfallen to discover the shiny new fairings were indeed aluminum!
Bear with me for a brief wild-eyed and quixotic moment. Has anyone ever
successfully CLAD the fairings with some suitable material......maybe
something sharing similiar qualities with the shiny self adhesive heat
reflective shielding some of us apply to the interior of the lower cowl?
Does some shrinkable and long lasting material exist (perhaps known
within in the RC world) that can be successfully applied to the complex
surfaces of fiberglass fairings that matches the look of polished
aluminum, but will over the long term, withstand the environment in
which it will serve? To date, I have simply not observed a paint
application that convincingly matches the look of polished aluminum. I
only want to do this once. Short of carving form blocks, mastering 3003
alloy, dollys, and an english wheel, what's a simple homebuilder to do?
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
Painting Gurus,
Say you only wanted to paint your RV's fairings, tips, pants, skirt, you
know, the glass parts, to sort of fool the non-RV world that it's all
aluminum, what paint would you choose, and maybe why? I see PPG has all
those "Mist" names for what-- on the computer screen-- look to be
aluminum-like paints for Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, etc.. But some of you
must
already have worked out this not-as-easy-as-it-looks problem. [No pun
intended] Thanks,
Jack -8
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>SNIP The Rockets are sexy and look great, but... I dont like the
>steel tube round gear. Wiggly wobblySNIP
I've heard comments about the longer, tubular/round stock gear legs on F-1's
and HR's being more bouncy or spongy than std RV's.
>Ahem, the Rocket gear is not steel tube. Nor is it any more wiggly,
>wobbly than an RV-4, 6,or 7 gear. Wood stiffeners are required and will
>add about 37 cents to the cost of this project.
That is the point - these all have tubular/round stock gear legs. and the
Rocket legs are even longer.
>Why would anyone want to put a 6 cylinder on an RV-8?
For the same reasons Mike mentioned, plus a few others. O-540's are
relatively cheap per hp (for now), particularly as compared to -360's. the
weight of a -540/hp is attractive also IMO. I've already built an -8, so
installing a -540 would be relatively painless as compared to building a
Harmon Rocket or a much more expensive F-1 Rocket.
>Geez, put on an IO-360 and live with the measely 200HP.
I don't follow this point.
>This is a penny-wise, pound-foolish project if I ever saw
>one. If money is your motivation to do this, then buy a SLOW BUILD
>Harmon kit from John and the cost will still be as cheap as an RV.
>Sorry for the flames... but better to have flames online than at the
>crash site!!!
The overall risk of a -540 powered RV is probably higher than that of a -320
or -360 powered plane, but I believe it could be well managed.
Seems to me there are roughly four factors to consider with a -540 powered
RV.
1. Additional torque - not a major issue except when low, slow or in a
botched takeoff/landing adding power. But still not a significant airframe
issue.
2. Additional thrust - The additional thrust force on the airframe itself
is not a significant issue either. Additional - yes, but not enough to
cause concern IMO.
3. Additional dynamic flight loads - This one is the only one which would
cause me concern. The Vne would be something that concerned me. But as
Mike says - there are quite a few others pushing the RV envelope which might
help raise the confidence level with this item. When doing acro, the load
factors and entry speeds would have to be looked at closely. I'm pretty
conservative with my acro, not regularly seeing anything more than about 3.2
g's anyway. You'd have to look at the motor mount and fuselage attachment
to be sure the -540 and RV combo would be suitable at your chosed load
factor. But most of this answers could be reverse engineered from the load
factors RV's are seeing with -360's on the firewall.
4. Additional weight - The engine and prop would probably add 75 or 100-lbs
over a 200-hp combo, just guessing. This is going to change stall speeds,
maneuvering speeds, dynamics of flying, etc. Landings would have to be
rethought a little, reducing the rough field and short field landing
capability somewhat. changed speeds could be determined pretty accurately
versus current when you know the new weight.
Good discussions, particularly since I'd like to make this conversion one fo
these days myself.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Listers and Dean,
I spoke with Trio last week and was told the Navaid servo is what ships when
you purchase the EZ pilot. It isn't a matter of matting the Navaid servo
just because you have it. If you purchase a new EZ Pilot, you will still be
using a Navaid servo. I don't know about the future of their own servos.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet
com>
>
> Ok Sam Buchanan:
>
>
> After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list, you've
> finally answered part of my questions to you.
Good morning, Dean!
I don't know what happened to the email you sent me since I never
received it, but I am glad some (or maybe all as you will see shortly)
of your questions have been answered.
Specifically that the Navaid
> works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full
> potential. Great, that's good to hear.
The Navaid does indeed work well most of the time once you figure it out
but the key is "full potential". The full potential of the analog Navaid
falls way short of the capabilities of the digital units. This isn't a
slam against Navaid or its manufacturer, just a reflection of analog vs
digital technology.
NOW..could you please tell me and
> the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that
> you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital autopilots
> are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody else
says
> that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by
someone
> who's used it quit a bit lately???
Dean, an archive search of the list will pull up several posts I have
made concerning the EZ-Pilot. Or you can just hit this page on my web
site to see some of the earliest posts:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/EZ_Pilot.htm
Hopefully you will consider these posts to be "good solid information". :-)
The Navaid servo, even though designed many years ago, works beautifully
with the digital control heads. It is an elegantly simple design that
has proved to be reliable in many, many experimental planes. However,
its days are numbered since all the digital manufacturers have either
released their own modern servos or soon will. But for pilots who
already have a Navaid installation, the old servo will deliver fine
performance with the new autopilots that are designed to interface with it.
Don't worry about stirring up a hornets
> nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest of
the
> information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!!
I'm not worried in the least about stirring up the TruTrak folks; they
are very capable of presenting their line of fine equipment on their
own. Remember, I am a TruTrak customer since I fly their excellent
AlTrak. TruTrak approached me about doing some beta testing of their
Navaid version of the DigiTrak but since I already had the EZ-Pilot
installed and was very pleased with it and the fine support of Trio
Avionics I didn't see any point in getting in the middle of a
competitive situation.
Dean, you can download the installation and user manuals of both the
EZ-Pilot and the DigiTrak from the respective websites. There are no
secrets or black magic involved with these units; the info is right out
in the open to anybody who does their homework. I'm not sure what other
information you are seeking but I think a careful reading of the manuals
will answer your questions. If not, don't hesitate to reply and I and
other autopilot users, regardless of brand, will attempt to fill in the
gaps.
Now.....maybe I coughed up a bib-full..... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
> Listers and Dean,
>
> I spoke with Trio last week and was told the Navaid servo is what ships when
> you purchase the EZ pilot. It isn't a matter of matting the Navaid servo
> just because you have it. If you purchase a new EZ Pilot, you will still be
> using a Navaid servo. I don't know about the future of their own servos.
Whoa here!
Let me nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. I may have made
an inference where it was unintended. I am privy to no information as to
the future availability of the Navaid servo, but have heard absolutely
nothing about its immediate demise. My point was about the inevitable
replacement of analog servos with digital. The change will certainly
occur eventually, but for now, the Navaid/Trio servo works fine, and
pilots who install it should expect many years of reliable service.
Sam Buchanan
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum matching paints |
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I didn't see any replies to this do I'll take a shot. If you take a piece of polished
aluminum to your local Sherwin Williams or other auto paint store, they
will have a device that can mix a custom color to match. This approach is used
with excellent results to match faded paints for collision damage repair.
That said, everyone I've talked to advises me against this course because of
the problems keeping bare aluminum looking good and the difficulty of reproducing
the same shinyness. I'd paint the whole thing some aluminum color you like
to keep from emphasizing the fiberglass parts.
Dave Reel - RV8A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Tim is exactly right.
The Trio uses the well proven, don't know of any failures personally,
Navaid servo. Your not mating to it. It was designed for it, and ships
with it.
Mike
Do not archive.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan"
<rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Listers and Dean,
I spoke with Trio last week and was told the Navaid servo is what ships
when
you purchase the EZ pilot. It isn't a matter of matting the Navaid
servo
just because you have it. If you purchase a new EZ Pilot, you will
still be
using a Navaid servo. I don't know about the future of their own
servos.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet
com>
>
> Ok Sam Buchanan:
>
>
> After not bothering to respond to the email I sent you off list,
you've
> finally answered part of my questions to you.
Good morning, Dean!
I don't know what happened to the email you sent me since I never
received it, but I am glad some (or maybe all as you will see shortly)
of your questions have been answered.
Specifically that the Navaid
> works "OK" if you understand how it operates and use it to its full
> potential. Great, that's good to hear.
The Navaid does indeed work well most of the time once you figure it out
but the key is "full potential". The full potential of the analog Navaid
falls way short of the capabilities of the digital units. This isn't a
slam against Navaid or its manufacturer, just a reflection of analog vs
digital technology.
NOW..could you please tell me and
> the rest of the people on the list about the EZ Pilot electronics that
> you've mated to your Navaid servo???? You say that the digital
autopilots
> are light years beyond the Navaid, great generalization, everybody
else
says
> that too!!! How bout some good solid opinion on the EZ Pilot II by
someone
> who's used it quit a bit lately???
Dean, an archive search of the list will pull up several posts I have
made concerning the EZ-Pilot. Or you can just hit this page on my web
site to see some of the earliest posts:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/EZ_Pilot.htm
Hopefully you will consider these posts to be "good solid information".
:-)
The Navaid servo, even though designed many years ago, works beautifully
with the digital control heads. It is an elegantly simple design that
has proved to be reliable in many, many experimental planes. However,
its days are numbered since all the digital manufacturers have either
released their own modern servos or soon will. But for pilots who
already have a Navaid installation, the old servo will deliver fine
performance with the new autopilots that are designed to interface with
it.
Don't worry about stirring up a hornets
> nest with the Tru Track people, I'm counting on that to get the rest
of
the
> information I'm seeking. Now come on.cough it up!!!!
I'm not worried in the least about stirring up the TruTrak folks; they
are very capable of presenting their line of fine equipment on their
own. Remember, I am a TruTrak customer since I fly their excellent
AlTrak. TruTrak approached me about doing some beta testing of their
Navaid version of the DigiTrak but since I already had the EZ-Pilot
installed and was very pleased with it and the fine support of Trio
Avionics I didn't see any point in getting in the middle of a
competitive situation.
Dean, you can download the installation and user manuals of both the
EZ-Pilot and the DigiTrak from the respective websites. There are no
secrets or black magic involved with these units; the info is right out
in the open to anybody who does their homework. I'm not sure what other
information you are seeking but I think a careful reading of the manuals
will answer your questions. If not, don't hesitate to reply and I and
other autopilot users, regardless of brand, will attempt to fill in the
gaps.
Now.....maybe I coughed up a bib-full..... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
==
==
==
==
Message 18
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
Anyone out there have a SIRS NV2A Compass they'd sell me until Spruce, Chief, or
Van's gets their order of SIRS compasses which are on backorder? They keep
saying they're expecting a shipment any week, but it ain't happening and my 9A
is coming out of the paint shop in two weeks, then airworthy inspection then
on to flight testing, and the compass isn't installed.
And any recommendations on an inexpensive, easy to install, OAT guage?
Chuck
do not archive
Message 19
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>I've heard comments about the longer, tubular/round
>stock gear legs on F-1's
>and HR's being more bouncy or spongy than std RV's.
Absolutely not true. I recently had Mark Frederick's
F1 and flew it for a dozen or so hours and found it
handled better on the ground, had a better ride on the
ground, and had LESS of a tendency to bounce compared
to my -6. In fact it took some getting used to not
knowing that you've actually touched down, you can
grease it in that smooth. I have several friends with
HR2's and have closely observed gear movement. It is
more noticeable because these airplanes have longer
wheelpants, but in reality the movement you see is
just slightly more than you see on RV's. In formation
you will see a little movement of the gear in the
bumps when flying with a rocket, but only if you're
looking for it. I've never really looked for it with
RV's.
In my experience the ti gear on the rockets is leaps
and bounds better (no pun intended) than the gear on
any RV-4-6-8 I've flown, and that's coming from my
experience, not conjecture. As you could probably
tell I like it. :)
Why would anyone want a big motor?...efficiency.
195kts three-way gps runs burning 10.5gph running
2100rpm 23". Climbs from 700msl to 10.5K in under
five minutes running max 340cht in the climb on a hot
day. With a friend flying my 180c/s RV-6 next to me
in the F1 at the same speed I was burning 1 gph less
in the F1 running ROP.
The super-8's in my area don't do nearly as well as
the rockets, but they do better than the 200hp RV's.
My only beef with the super 8 is that it is not
supported by Van's.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
Indy
__________________________________
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a |
virus)????????
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
David's assertions below are right on the mark. If you receive a message
from the "RV-List" that has an attachment, then it is a spoof and not from
Matronics. It likely has a virus, too, and should be deleted immediately.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
At 07:17 AM 8/25/2004 Wednesday, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
>
>On my computer, I get an "html attachment" IF the sender sent his e-mail in
>HTML format (to show color, photos, etc). That is due to a setting in
>Inbox-Outlook Express e-mail pgm - click Format, and see if Plain Text has a
>dot to left of it. That blocks display of the html content. If you click
>"HTML" then any e-mail sent in html format will display normally.
>
>However, none of the e-mails I get from RV-list or AeroElectric list have
>this "html attachment" because I believe Matt does not allow attachments and
>I suppose he sends out all the e-mails in txt format.
>
>I keep HTML turned off as a security precaution due to a security
>vulnerability of Microsoft's e-mail pgm wherein malicious code can be
>embedded in an HTML format e-mai.
>
>So, I suspect that the address is spoofed and it is malicious e-mail, as
>someone below explained.
>
>David
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I have a
>virus)????????
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
><alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> >
> > James is not the only one - since yesterday, all the messages from the
> > list have a text attachment, which is simply a copy of the message.
> > This has happened in the past, no clue what is going on. Other emails I
> > have received, not from the list, also have the attachment occasionally,
> > so it is likely not anything the list is generating. No clue.
> >
> > Alex Peterson
> > Maple Grove, MN
> > RV6-A N66AP 516 hours
> > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
> > >
> > > If you have an attachment then the sending address is
> > > spoofed. All attachments on the Matronics list are stripped.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
> > > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > > Subject: RV-List: Attachment showing up in RV List (or do I
> > > have a virus)????????
> > >
> > >
> > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark"
> > > > --> <james@nextupventures.com>
> > > >
> > > > Anyone else out there getting mail from the RV-List with an
> > > > "attachment"?
> > > >
> > > > Hope I don't have a virus or something. (Should be
> > > protected by virus
> > > > protection s/w)
> > > >
> > > > James
> >
> >
>
>
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Need Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: jammeter@comcast.net
Cheap OAT?? Try Radio Shack... They have a battery operated inside/outside air
temperature gauge. Mount the outside sensor in the NASA duct.
do not archive
John Ammeter
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant"
>
> Anyone out there have a SIRS NV2A Compass they'd sell me until Spruce, Chief,
or
> Van's gets their order of SIRS compasses which are on backorder? They keep
> saying they're expecting a shipment any week, but it ain't happening and my 9A
> is coming out of the paint shop in two weeks, then airworthy inspection then
on
> to flight testing, and the compass isn't installed.
>
> And any recommendations on an inexpensive, easy to install, OAT guage?
> Chuck
> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cheap OAT?? Try Radio Shack... They have a battery operated inside/outside air
temperature gauge. Mount the outside sensor in the NASA duct.
do not archive
John Ammeter
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <CWEYANT@CHUCKDIRECT.COM>
Anyone out there have a SIRS NV2A Compass they'd sell me until Spruce, Chief,
or
Van's gets their order of SIRS compasses which are on backorder? They keep
saying they're expecting a shipment any week, but it ain't happening and my 9A
is coming out of the paint shop in two weeks, then airworthy inspection then on
to flight testing, and the compass isn't installed.
And any recommendations on an inexpensive, easy to install, OAT guage?
Chuck
do not archive
List Specific: http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Public Service Announcement: EAA Chapter 60 Fly-In Pig Roast |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks@charter.net>
Looking for something to do this coming weekend? EAA Chapter 60 in Beloit,
WI is having a fly-in Pig Roast lunch at Beloit Airport (44C) just southeast
of Beloit, WI this Saturday, August 28th. The airport is about 60 sm NE of
the O'Hare VOR (ORD), just N of the IL-WI state line. Lunch will be served
from 11:00 am until 2:00 pm and admission is $8 for adults (and over 12) or
$4 for age 12 and under. This is our chapter's only fund-raising event for
the year. So, all of you who live in the Chicago area or might be passing
through on Friday evening or Saturday morning, stop in and show off your RV
(or whatever you happen to be flying at the time). We'll be camping at the
airport while we tend the pig roasters Friday night. Here's a link to
"Landings" website for info on the airport:
http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*65860526!_h-www.landings.com/_landin
gs/pages/search/ap-info.html
Click on "Airport Records by Identifier" and type "44C" in the first block.
For more info, call Ken Brooks (that's me) at 815-985-0717, and as always,
Drive-Ins also welcome!
Do Not Archive
Ken Brooks
RV-8 Finishing
Roscoe, IL
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
All,
This is an excellent discussion, exactly the kind that needs to occur in a
forum like this.
The RVs are great designs. Everything in the design of an airplane is a
compromise. Most elements in the design of an airplane are inter-related.
Aspect ratio vs spar strength vs wing area vs stall speed etc.....
My question is in flying a Super-8, what do you give up???? And how do you
operate it within it's enevelope?
I have a helluva time operating my IO-320 -4 within it's envelope. I blow
the recommended aerobatic gross weight nearly every time I fly. I give up
G-loading, I use +4/-2 as my aerobatic limits.
It is hard to stay below redline in a descent. I try not to break the
redline, but still hear my RMencoder bitching at me about Vne more
frequently than I should. There is really nothing I can give up to raise
Vne. I would have to redesign the airplane.
If operated at +4/-2 (at aerobatic gross weight) and with a healthy respect
for Vno and Vne a Super-8 might work fine, but a Super-8 is going to be a
challenge to fly within those limits.
I did a presentation at the MN RV forum called "The Wing Removal Lever, and
how Not to use it" It studied the V-N diagram of the RV-8. At Vne the RV-8
has 18 G available......... Twice its failure limit......... These are
not fragile airplanes, but because the stall speed is so low, they awesome
power available to break themselves.
A Super-8 would be a GREAT airplane for high altitude cruise, becasue more
displacement is a much easier cheaper and safer solution than a turbo
charger. But a Super-8 is not an idiot proof airplane, and needs to be
flown carefully.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 24
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| Subject: | Aluminum matching paints |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
You can try 20209 MONOKOTE CHROME. It can be laid up over your fairings and
can be shrunk with a heat gun. It is very chrome like and may be too
reflective to match the polished aluminum unless you have the gloss level
way up there. I don't think the aluminum Monokote looks like anything other
than brushed aluminum...
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DAVID REEL
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum matching paints
--> RV-List message posted by: "DAVID REEL" <dreel@cox.net>
I didn't see any replies to this do I'll take a shot. If you take a piece
of polished aluminum to your local Sherwin Williams or other auto paint
store, they will have a device that can mix a custom color to match. This
approach is used with excellent results to match faded paints for collision
damage repair. That said, everyone I've talked to advises me against this
course because of the problems keeping bare aluminum looking good and the
difficulty of reproducing the same shinyness. I'd paint the whole thing
some aluminum color you like to keep from emphasizing the fiberglass parts.
Dave Reel - RV8A
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Need Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
I've found, in my Grumman AA1a, that the OAT sensor located in the NACA vent
on the side of the fuselage, is inaccurate in flight. Seems it gets radiant
heat from the engine and registers about 20 degrees too high. Could this be
a problem with the RV NACA vent install?
Chuck
do not archive
Try Radio Shack... They have a battery operated inside/outside air
temperature gauge. Mount the outside sensor in the NASA duct.
>
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
I was hoping you would weigh in Bob since you clearly have lots of
experience around all these items.
I have absolutely no issue with the bounce factor personally. It was the
taxi wobble, shake, braking shimmy noticeable in the all the rv tail
draggers and more noticeable in the various "rockets."
Bob what is the issue around the "Unsupported by Vans" that bothers you?
Vans does not support all kinds of things. Why is that a factor? I have
as a top 3 list of reasons why I chose the Super 8 the fact that IS a
Vans plane first. What would you like them to support that they don't
already? The idea? You know that's never happening.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Japundza
Subject: RE: RV-List: super 8
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>I've heard comments about the longer, tubular/round
>stock gear legs on F-1's
>and HR's being more bouncy or spongy than std RV's.
Absolutely not true. I recently had Mark Frederick's
F1 and flew it for a dozen or so hours and found it
handled better on the ground, had a better ride on the
ground, and had LESS of a tendency to bounce compared
to my -6. In fact it took some getting used to not
knowing that you've actually touched down, you can
grease it in that smooth. I have several friends with
HR2's and have closely observed gear movement. It is
more noticeable because these airplanes have longer
wheelpants, but in reality the movement you see is
just slightly more than you see on RV's. In formation
you will see a little movement of the gear in the
bumps when flying with a rocket, but only if you're
looking for it. I've never really looked for it with
RV's.
In my experience the ti gear on the rockets is leaps
and bounds better (no pun intended) than the gear on
any RV-4-6-8 I've flown, and that's coming from my
experience, not conjecture. As you could probably
tell I like it. :)
Why would anyone want a big motor?...efficiency.
195kts three-way gps runs burning 10.5gph running
2100rpm 23". Climbs from 700msl to 10.5K in under
five minutes running max 340cht in the climb on a hot
day. With a friend flying my 180c/s RV-6 next to me
in the F1 at the same speed I was burning 1 gph less
in the F1 running ROP.
The super-8's in my area don't do nearly as well as
the rockets, but they do better than the 200hp RV's.
My only beef with the super 8 is that it is not
supported by Van's.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
Indy
__________________________________
==
==
==
==
Message 27
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| Subject: | "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, Calif |
rv8-list@matronics.com, rv9-list@matronics.com, rv-list@matronics.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
Greetings:
Any Builders who live in the Santa Monica, Calif area.
Building a RV-8A QB in my garage 5 minutes from Santa
Monica Airport and "need extra hands". Willing to
help somebody with their project TOO. My wife does
not want to get involved and the local EAA Chapter is
all composite builders. At the rate I am making
progress it will take me 5 life times to complete
!!!!!
Thanks,
Garey Wittich (310) 392-1682
__________________________________
Message 28
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--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
> -----Original Message-----
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza
> <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>
> Why would anyone want a big motor?...efficiency.
> 195kts three-way gps runs burning 10.5gph running
> 2100rpm 23". Climbs from 700msl to 10.5K in under
> five minutes running max 340cht in the climb on a
> hot
> day. With a friend flying my 180c/s RV-6 next to me
> in the F1 at the same speed I was burning 1 gph less
> in the F1 running ROP.
>
I'm going to ask a somewhat obvious question here:
Why is the IO-540 more efficient than the 360? Pardon
my ignorance, but this doesn't make that much sense to
me. The parallel valve 540's and 360's use the same
cylinders (right?). For a given horsepower smaller
engines are usually more efficient, especially when
the two are of nearly identical designs. It should
also take the same amount of horsepower to fly similar
airframes at the same speed (actually slightly more
for a Super 8 vs. standard 8 because of more weight
and drag).
Perhaps the larger engine can turn a larger prop, and
gain some efficiency there, but I still don't see this
as making a significant difference in this case.
Maybe the F1 is just a more efficient airframe than
the -6. In this case, I think those hoping for an
increase in efficiency by going to a Super 8 are going
to be disappointed.
Comments?
_______________________________
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid VS EZ Pilot! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
Sam,
I didn't take it that way either. I merely suggested I was not privy either
to what may or may not be going on in the R&D department. I would agree
that digital in most cases is replacing analog devices of any kind. My
comments were only to indicate that Trio was shipping the exact servo as the
Navaid.
sorry for any misconceptions.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
Do Not Archive this.
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid VS EZ Pilot!
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tim Bryan wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
>
> Listers and Dean,
>
> I spoke with Trio last week and was told the Navaid servo is what ships
when
> you purchase the EZ pilot. It isn't a matter of matting the Navaid servo
> just because you have it. If you purchase a new EZ Pilot, you will still
be
> using a Navaid servo. I don't know about the future of their own servos.
Whoa here!
Let me nip this in the bud before it gets out of hand. I may have made
an inference where it was unintended. I am privy to no information as to
the future availability of the Navaid servo, but have heard absolutely
nothing about its immediate demise. My point was about the inevitable
replacement of analog servos with digital. The change will certainly
occur eventually, but for now, the Navaid/Trio servo works fine, and
pilots who install it should expect many years of reliable service.
Sam Buchanan
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: "Need Extra Hands" in building a RV-8A QB - Santa Monica, |
Calif
--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
Garey,
You should also post your note at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCAL-RVlist/
Lots of folks on our SoCal list that might be able to help.
I always wondered why I started to itch every time I drove by Santa
Monica......
Laird - Simi Valley
RV-6 @ Whiteman
On Aug 25, 2004, at 12:04 PM, Garey Wittich wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Garey Wittich
> <gareywittich2000@yahoo.com>
>
> Greetings:
>
> Any Builders who live in the Santa Monica, Calif area.
> Building a RV-8A QB in my garage 5 minutes from Santa
> Monica Airport and "need extra hands". Willing to
> help somebody with their project TOO. My wife does
> not want to get involved and the local EAA Chapter is
> all composite builders. At the rate I am making
> progress it will take me 5 life times to complete
> !!!!!
>
> Thanks,
> Garey Wittich (310) 392-1682
>
>
> __________________________________
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Need Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut@worldnet.att.net>
I put the OAT probe from my EI gage in the NACA vent and the readings always
agree with those reported from other planes so it works for me.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Need Compass
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>
> I've found, in my Grumman AA1a, that the OAT sensor located in the NACA
vent
> on the side of the fuselage, is inaccurate in flight. Seems it gets
radiant
> heat from the engine and registers about 20 degrees too high. Could this
be
> a problem with the RV NACA vent install?
> Chuck
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>I have absolutely no issue with the bounce factor
>personally. It was the taxi wobble, shake, braking
>shimmy noticeable in the all the rv tail draggers
>and more noticeable in the various "rockets."
My opinion here is that the more freedom of movement
allowed at the axle, the less stress will be
transmitted to the airframe where the gearleg joins.
The wheel is free to move in more than one axis so it
can absorb/rebound loads. With the flat design, you
essentially only have one axis of movement (up/down)
and rely on a rigid attachment to the airframe
(gearbox) to provide dampening of any loads at the
axle (fore/aft).
>Bob what is the issue around the "Unsupported by
>Vans" that bothers you? Vans does not support all
>kinds of things. Why is that a factor? I have as a
>top 3 list of reasons why I chose the Super 8 the
>fact that IS a Vans plane first. What would you like
>them to support that they don't already? The idea?
>You know that's never happening.
Yes you are correct that they don't like lots of
things and in some respects I don't blame them given
the legal environment in our country. On the other
hand, if this sort of experimentation never happened
(super 8's, rockets, etc.), we'd all be flying stits
playboys right now. That 'e' word written in 2" high
letters is a great thing, isn't it? I don't in any
way put anyone down for hanging a 540 on an -8. But
there are some unknowns with the wing being operated
at higher gross weights and higher airspeeds that
limit the advantages you gain with hanging a big motor
up front. I'm pretty certain Van's won't give you any
analysis on that. Unless you know those limits,
you'll have to operate somewhere well under what you
think those limits are, that's gonna take some fun
factor out of the equation.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 180c/s flying "weenie motor"
F1 under const.
Indy
__________________________________
Message 33
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<rv6-list@matronics.com>, <rv8-list@matronics.com>,
<rv9-list@matronics.com>,
<rv-list@matronics.com>
1.7 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS Similar addresses in recipient list
--> RV-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 34
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>
>I don't in any
>way put anyone down for hanging a 540 on an -8. But
>there are some unknowns with the wing being operated
>at higher gross weights and higher airspeeds that
>limit the advantages you gain with hanging a big motor
>up front. I'm pretty certain Van's won't give you any
>analysis on that. Unless you know those limits,
>you'll have to operate somewhere well under what you
>think those limits are, that's gonna take some fun
>factor out of the equation.
Just curious - has anyone done static load testing on the HR wing?
If so, who did it and what gross weight and g did the testing
simulate?
Also, how do the HR and F-1 wing designs compare?
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>Just curious - has anyone done static load testing
>on the HR wing? If so, who did it and what gross
>weight and g did the testing simulate?
It is my understanding that John Harmon had an
engineering evaluation done on the HR wing sometime in
the mid-90's. I don't know if any static load testing
has been done. To that end I don't know if its ever
been done on the RV-4 either. There's never been a
in-flight failure that I'm aware of.
>Also, how do the HR and F-1 wing designs compare?
Nearly identical.
Regards,
Bob
__________________________________
Message 36
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Used to be, but not anymore...
The F-1 wing couldn't be further from an RV wing if you tried. The new EVO wing
is a tapered wing, both in chord and span. It's really an amazing piece of
work and comes finished from Tearm Rocket/HPA...the work looks top notch from
what I've seen, and I really scrutinzed it at OSH. If you saw it at OSH you'd
know what I mean. Also, it "apparantly" has resulted in higher cruise speed
and slightly lowered stall speed. Plus....it looks like a piece of a rocket!!
Last thing...about that gear argument. They really aren't that similar, other
than being tapered rods. The rockets are Titanium, machined flat for a lot of
the length, and attache via a tapered cone (like the CNC Morris Taper bits),
and the Van's are steel (or can be AL2 on the -8's).
If and when I build something with a 6 banger on the front, I'd love a rocket.
That being said, the $46K entry price is a lot more than the Van's planes...so
that -10 is also pretty attractive at $10K less (slow build vs. fast build).
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Minneapolis
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
>
>>Also, how do the HR and F-1 wing designs compare?
>
>Nearly identical.
>
>Regards,
>Bob
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: IFR instruments |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
Many newer digital autopilots aimed at the experimental market find their
best reference for navigation in a properly configured GPS data stream. The
NMEA 0183 data stream and the AVLINK data stream (from Garmin and others)
adhere to strict standards. Such digital autopilots are designed to accept
data that adheres to these standards, and they typically work remarkably
well when using such precise digital data.
EFIS systems must also get their navigation information from outside
sources, such as GPS. They may then process this information and provide an
output for use by autopilots. If you are going to attach an autopilot to
these systems, you MUST know what processes are being performed to the NMEA
0183 or AVLINK data streams once the EFIS digests it and provides an output
to an autopilot.
Some EFIS systems can get a little tricky in their "Heading" mode. When you
select a heading on the EFIS, they might create a "phantom" waypoint some
distance ahead of the aircraft at the heading that was selected. They then
put this in the data stream, replacing the GPS BTW (Bearing to Waypoint)
data with BTW of the phantom waypoint. The autopilot will then track to
this course if the data is in the correct format. There can be some unknown
parameters here... how far away is the "phantom" waypoint - is the autopilot
capable of tracking to the output data as configured - are all of the
required data passed through from the NMEA information (typically the RMB
and RMC sentences) - and a whole host of other questions that must be
addressed by the EFIS and autopilot manufacturers to assure fail safe
operation.
This is not to say that these systems won't work together. Just a "heads
up" to prompt questions that might be asked of potential suppliers of such
equipment - to be sure that you don't find yourself in a dark cumulus cloud
someday with these questions left unanswered. Check with the systems
manufacturers to get absolute assurance of compatibility. Remember that
many of the EFIS and autopilot systems that are directed to experimental
aircraft are not "certified" and therefore have not been subjected to the
rigorous testing that is demanded by certification. This should create a
huge question mark above your head.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Johnson
Subject: RE: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Tony Johnson" <tonyjohnson@cfl.rr.com>
Frank,
I am also interested in learning more about the BMA EFIS lite 3. I do have
some concerns about using it for IFR applications.
Let me preface this by saying that I am no expert, and I am not even IFR
rated at this point. It is my understanding that for a GPS to be approved
for IFR it must have a left-right indication and annunciators. The G3 seems
to have the left-right indication, but I did not see any indication that it
had the annuciators. That would add about $750 to the package. The other
issue is that I think, but do not know, that a GPS used for IFR work would
have to be certified (or meet the TSO requirements) for IFR, either enroute
or approach even in an experimental aircraft. I have not seen any
indication that the G3 meets these requirements.
The G3 is an impressive unit, although it lacks some of the features of the
dynon, it has adds more. I did not see any indication that the G3 has AOA
information, OAT, or density altitude.
It does have winds aloft information, both speed and direction.
I am wondering if it will interface with a NAVAID, and take VOR info from a
NARCO Nav radio. I emailed BMA today with those questions. I will be
interested in the observations and knowledge of other listers.
Tony Johnson
RV8A Orlando
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hinde, Frank
George (Corvallis)
rv8-list@matronics.com; rv9-list@matronics.com; rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV8-List: IFR instruments
--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
<frank.hinde@hp.com>
Hi Guys,
I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
for an RV-7, then I see that BMA has come out with the EFIS Lite G3
which has the GPS, and an electronic version of the VOR/GS receiver that
can be driven by an SL30 Navcom. Apparently this system drives a BMA 2
axis autopilot.
Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k including
the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Anyone have any experience or thoughts on this set up?
I haven't started IFR training yet so I'm fumbling a little on all the
requirements...Not sure about the "indicator lights" (marker beacon?)
that are apparently built into the Nav head that the GNS 430 would
drive.
Frank
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Do not archive
Mike
I like the idea of experimenting. I am sure you have done a lot of
planning and thinking before going ahead and installing a 540 in a RV-8.
I do agree with Vince on a lot of his issues thou.
I am sure folks thought John Harmon was crazy when he installed a 540 in
basically an RV-4.
One thing I think the Super 8 guys should do, is stop calling it an
RV-8. I think Van would agree with me on this issue.
Good luck with your Super 8. I can't wait to see it.
John Danielson
Message 39
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44@earthlink.net>
I almost have my HR II finished - the last thing I will have to buy is
paint. I have less than $55K in it. I would like to see anyone build an
IFR RV of any kind for less than that. I bought the 4 kit and John's kit
and if that is what you call an entry price it's nowhere near $46K. Plus it
is a better looking plane than the F 1 IMHO.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: super 8
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Used to be, but not anymore...
>
> The F-1 wing couldn't be further from an RV wing if you tried. The new
EVO wing is a tapered wing, both in chord and span. It's really an amazing
piece of work and comes finished from Tearm Rocket/HPA...the work looks top
notch from what I've seen, and I really scrutinzed it at OSH. If you saw it
at OSH you'd know what I mean. Also, it "apparantly" has resulted in higher
cruise speed and slightly lowered stall speed. Plus....it looks like a
piece of a rocket!!
>
> Last thing...about that gear argument. They really aren't that similar,
other than being tapered rods. The rockets are Titanium, machined flat for
a lot of the length, and attache via a tapered cone (like the CNC Morris
Taper bits), and the Van's are steel (or can be AL2 on the -8's).
>
> If and when I build something with a 6 banger on the front, I'd love a
rocket. That being said, the $46K entry price is a lot more than the Van's
planes...so that -10 is also pretty attractive at $10K less (slow build vs.
fast build).
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> Minneapolis
>
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: Bob Japundza <bjapundza@yahoo.com>
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:36:18 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >>Also, how do the HR and F-1 wing designs compare?
> >
> >Nearly identical.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >
> >
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we
will have in the panel a decade from now?
What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not
mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all
flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan?
The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions.
I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in
the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight
instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those
instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all!
http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComputing.pdf
No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens,
it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental
aviation.
Sam Buchanan
Message 41
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| Subject: | Paint Matching Aluminum |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett <perfeng@3rivers.net>
Hi Guys,
To simply answer your question about matching polished ALCAD...Yes you
can get a finish very close to polished aluminum with certain lines of
specialty paint and a whole lot of time and effort ( also read money
into this too).
As a guy who has been in the custom paint / refinishing business for
over 30+ years, my recommendation would be to electroform your plastic
parts and then coat them with a clear urethane. Electroforming is a
plating process for non-conductive parts such as your grille in your
pick-up or the badges and ornaments on the wife's grocery-getter. By
price, it's far less expensive than trying to paint match a polished
metal surface. In fact electrforming uses metal, most often nickel or
strike nickel. The nickel looks darn near identical to polished ALCAD
and the weigh is marginal to that of paint, and it's prettier too.
Just a suggestion from an old guy that remembers when Dulux was the
"new" system to use.
Jim Duckett, N708JD
Jimmie Dee's Custom Hot Rod Shop
Do Not Archive
Message 42
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| Subject: | Temporary hangar space in Birmingham |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com>
Fellow Listers:
There is a chance that I may be in desperate need of hangar space for my
RV-4 in the Birmingham, AL area from Aug 29 - Sep 3. My recourse is to
hangar with one of the big FBO's at the BHM airport which could get rather
pricey. Anyone have any ideas?
Please contact off list or call my cell at 651-398-1184
Many thanks,
Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 43
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| Subject: | Temporary hangar space in Birmingham |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Doug, check with Doug Preston. He is a corporate pilot and TVRVBGer
based at Bessemer and he may be able to find room for you.
dougpflyrv@aol.com
Sam
============================
Doug Weiler wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> There is a chance that I may be in desperate need of hangar space for my
> RV-4 in the Birmingham, AL area from Aug 29 - Sep 3. My recourse is to
> hangar with one of the big FBO's at the BHM airport which could get rather
> pricey. Anyone have any ideas?
>
> Please contact off list or call my cell at 651-398-1184
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jaye and Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott@telus.net>
The ultimate goal would be to make all flying, including night, in-cloud,
etc., just like day, CAVU flying.
How the environment outside is detected and generated, either by radar,
infrared sensors, or GPS/terrain database interface, with the resulting
image projected either on a head-up display, or holographically, remains to
be seen.
Flight directors, then, become not unlike driving along a winding, coastal
road, with rises and falls, with the commanded path looking either like a
road with a centreline, or a series of windows to steer through.
Surrounded here by coastal mountains on three sides, imagine flying through
a mountain pass in the dark, or solid cloud......
Scott in Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: A peek into the future??
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we
> will have in the panel a decade from now?
>
> What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not
> mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all
> flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan?
>
> The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions.
> I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in
> the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight
> instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those
> instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all!
>
>
http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComputing.pdf
>
> No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens,
> it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental
> aviation.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Interesting. I think I'll wait for Control Vision to come out with their LCARS
console.
(LCARS is the computer display used on the newer varieties of Star Trek)
OhwhatanerdIam.
And especially...
do not archive
Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan
This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we
will have in the panel a decade from now?
What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not
mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all
flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan?
The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions.
I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in
the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight
instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those
instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all!
http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComputing.pdf
No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens,
it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental
aviation.
Sam Buchanan
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 46
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| Subject: | A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Sam,
I read through that report last night after reading about it on the Blue
Mountain discussion board. My first reaction was to wonder what all those
weird symbols were all about, but it's pretty hard to deny the results of
their experiments. In essence, they found that using the Oz symbols,
inexperienced pilots were much more capable of controlling the airplane
(actually, flight simulator) under varying conditions of turbulence and
distraction (reading text) than they were with conventional instrumentation.
I can easily imagine a time in the near future when part of the start-up
process for your EFIS system is to choose Oz or conventional symbology. It
would seem that it would be a relatively simple matter with a glass cockpit
to choose how you wanted the information presented.
Oh, and Greg at Blue Mountain is onto it.
Terry
RV-8 still wiring
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: RV-List: A peek into the future??
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we
will have in the panel a decade from now?
What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not
mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all
flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan?
The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions.
I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in
the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight
instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those
instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all!
http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComput
ing.pdf
No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens,
it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental
aviation.
Sam Buchanan
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