Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:44 AM - Re: Re: RV8-List: IFR instruments (Dana Overall)
2. 04:44 AM - Firewall color (Dana Overall)
3. 05:07 AM - Anyone know Mike DeMarino... (Alfred Klewin)
4. 05:13 AM - Re: Firewall color (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
5. 05:21 AM - Any RV builders/flyers in New Zealand? (sheldon barrett)
6. 06:54 AM - Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Doug Weiler)
7. 07:03 AM - more Rocket/Super 8 comments (Frazier, Vincent A)
8. 07:04 AM - Re: Firewall color (RV_8 Pilot)
9. 07:29 AM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Dan Checkoway)
10. 07:59 AM - Re: 153MC flies today (Charles Rowbotham)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Greg Young)
12. 10:22 AM - Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
13. 11:26 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Chris W)
14. 11:39 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (SportAV8R@aol.com)
15. 11:48 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Mickey Coggins)
16. 11:54 AM - Re: Firewall color (Dana Overall)
17. 11:58 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Dana Overall)
18. 12:03 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Ken Simmons)
19. 12:17 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Sam Buchanan)
20. 12:25 PM - Re: Firewall color (RV_8 Pilot)
21. 12:26 PM - Re: Firewall color (Randy Lervold)
22. 12:53 PM - GA Scare Piece (Jamie Painter)
23. 01:01 PM - Re: Firewall color (Noel & Yoshie Simmons)
24. 01:11 PM - Re: more Rocket/Super 8 comments (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
25. 01:21 PM - Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
26. 01:44 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Brian Denk)
27. 01:46 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (SportAV8R@aol.com)
28. 02:05 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb)
29. 02:05 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (SportAV8R@aol.com)
30. 02:06 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now automatic billing (RV_8 Pilot)
31. 02:19 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Skylor Piper)
32. 02:25 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Chuck Weyant)
33. 02:25 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Trampas)
34. 02:32 PM - What's a fair price? (John)
35. 02:35 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Greg Young)
36. 03:01 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb)
37. 03:22 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (RV8ter@aol.com)
38. 03:32 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Skylor Piper)
39. 04:01 PM - Re: What's a fair price? (BRUCE GRAY)
40. 04:13 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb)
41. 04:16 PM - Re: What's a fair price? (Richard Bibb)
42. 05:02 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Scott Vanartsdalen)
43. 05:28 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (plaurence@the-beach.net)
44. 05:42 PM - Lyle Hefel (Jim Cimino)
45. 06:08 PM - Cad 3 view (plaurence@the-beach.net)
46. 06:26 PM - Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Elrod3794@aol.com)
47. 06:50 PM - Re: Lyle Hefel (cgalley)
48. 07:27 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (RV_8 Pilot)
49. 08:00 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Vanremog@aol.com)
50. 08:13 PM - knock it off (Tom Gummo)
51. 08:53 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Brian Denk)
52. 08:55 PM - Re: Lyle Hefel (Brian Denk)
53. 08:58 PM - First Flight (BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks))
54. 09:31 PM - Re: First Flight (Scott Vanartsdalen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: IFR instruments |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)"
><frank.hinde@hp.com>
>
>Hi Guys,
>
>I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a
>Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup
>for an RV-7, >Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k
>including
>the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430
>comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P.
Frank, I'm also wondering where you come up with the 14.5K price. Garmin
430 from Stark Aviation, Dynon and course intersecting Trio Avionics AP with
stand alone altitude AP from Trutrak is substantially less than 14.5K.
As a side note, man you sure posted this one to a lot of lists:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK gang time to ask/forward some stupid questions and ideas.
Since everything on my airplane will be either black imron, black carbon
fiber or gold I don't want the firewall to be stainless. I understand paint
will not stick to the stainless so..................the idea of using a
sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my
firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for the
rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall.
I have done more searches on google than I care to document so if anyone has
any ideas/websites on how to accomplish the gold plate, gold foil or gold
whatever I would really, really, really appreciate it.
Wait until you see this carbon fiber panel with all the glass stuff in it
turned on!!:-) but I digress....I need a gold firewall.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Anyone know Mike DeMarino... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin <rv6aokc@yahoo.com>
If anyone knows how to contact Mike DeMarino please contact me off list....
Thanks...
Kurt Klewin
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
Talk to one of those mobile gold plater guys. If it is conductive they can
plat it.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: Firewall color
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK gang time to ask/forward some stupid questions and ideas.
Since everything on my airplane will be either black imron, black carbon
fiber or gold I don't want the firewall to be stainless. I understand paint
will not stick to the stainless so..................the idea of using a
sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my
firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for the
rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall.
I have done more searches on google than I care to document so if anyone has
any ideas/websites on how to accomplish the gold plate, gold foil or gold
whatever I would really, really, really appreciate it.
Wait until you see this carbon fiber panel with all the glass stuff in it
turned on!!:-) but I digress....I need a gold firewall.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Any RV builders/flyers in New Zealand? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb@frontiernet.net>
Going to New Zealand Oct 3rd to Oct 15th..
Was wondering if there are any RV guys/gals there for a looksee visit monitoring
the list?
Sheldon Barrett RV6A (Champ RV6 at LOE3).
sheldon@frontiernet.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com>
Thanks Sam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Doug, check with Doug Preston. He is a corporate pilot and TVRVBGer
> based at Bessemer and he may be able to find room for you.
>
> dougpflyrv@aol.com
>
> Sam
>
> ============================
>
> Doug Weiler wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" <dcw@nomadwi.com>
> >
> > Fellow Listers:
> >
> > There is a chance that I may be in desperate need of hangar space for my
> > RV-4 in the Birmingham, AL area from Aug 29 - Sep 3. My recourse is to
> > hangar with one of the big FBO's at the BHM airport which could get
rather
> > pricey. Anyone have any ideas?
> >
> > Please contact off list or call my cell at 651-398-1184
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | more Rocket/Super 8 comments |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier@usi.edu>
He he he.... I have to laugh because the Rocket list never gets this
much action on any topic. LOL
Also Michael Stewart has been a real gentleman throughout this thread.
We had emailed back and forth several times yesterday before my
pea-brain made the connection that it was his website comments that I
was tromping on! Some guys aren't so gracious and I take my hat off to
Michael for putting up with our well intended barbs.
I would not have any qualms about the Super 8s (or Super 6s either)if
some simple strengthening mods were done. It would be very easy to copy
what John Harmon has done on the Rocket and apply that to the RV
airframe. Most of the mods would involve a relatively simple increase
in skin thickness. Adding length to the tail would get a bit more
involved but is still reasonably straightforward.
For anyone who doesn't know what John Harmon did to Rocketize an RV-4,
here's a brief overview:
the wings are shortened about 7" per side and the rib spacing is
decreased,
the tail is lengthened about 7" with 4" of that length added between the
seats,
several skins in the forward fuselage are thickened,
a different cowl, motor mount, canopy, and several widened bulkheads are
needed due to widening of the fuselage. (Obviously the 8 wouldn't need
to be widened.)
And, of course, a big IO-540-C4B5 motor and HUGE Hartzell prop are
installed...don't kid yourself here... this is why it's a 1200# Rocket
and not a 950# RV-4 anymore. Please do the math for yourself.... 250#
difference and most of it is on the nose!
The gear geometry on the Rockets is changed to accommodate the weight on
the nose, with the Harmons tending to be more nose heavy on the ground.
The F-1 wheels are slightly farther forward to put more weight on the
tail. I'd be leary of simply leaving the RV-8 gear "as is" while adding
all of that weight up front. But I have no knowledge of the Super 8s
ground manners. Perhaps Bob J. will chime in again.
I've had the opportunity to ride in 3 different Harmons. The gear never
misbehaved whatsoever. Bob Japundza had a very good description of the
titanium gear yesterday. (I hate to say it in public, but I have a high
regard for Bob's opinions. He usually has it right.) Incidentally, the
titatium gear legs are without a doubt, the single most expensive part
of the entire airframe. I think I paid $850 apiece!!! If money makes
it good, these gear legs must be awesome! ;-)
There was discussion of cost also. My half breed Harmon/F1 Rocket has a
0-time Lyc and brand new prop, fully painted and upholstered, Grand
Rapids EFIS based panel with brand new avionics, etc, etc,... ALL new
everything, and I have all of the receipts to prove that I've not popped
the $50,000 barrier yet. I have taken exactly 5 years of spare time to
build it.
So, IMHO, a Super 8 with the Rocket mods listed above, and a Rocket gear
instead of the gear towers crowding your thighs would be "da bomb".
There's even a turtledeck mod for the RV-8 that a local RV-8 builder
(and others) have done. Looks nice.
Regards,
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so
Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern.
>sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my
>firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for
>the
>rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall.
I'm not thinking very creatively this morning, so I can't offer much advice
on making it gold right now. But you do realize that nice, shiny stainless
steel will reflect radiant energy (heat) better than any color, helping to
keep your feet cool.
If I just had to have it gold, I'd buff the outer surface of the firewall or
maybe use a portable grit blaster to rough it up a little. Clean
it/degrease it really well, then shoot it with a gold metallic flake
automotive paint (urethane, acrylic). IMO, it's a little late for
electroplating.
2 cents
Bryan
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Notice how in their study they used people who had never been exposed to
conventional flight instruments? Give those people a Dynon or Blue Mountain
EFIS and I'll bet you'll see virtually the same test results.
I inferred from this that we, pilots who have been trained on conventional
instruments, may be at a disadvantage because of our prior established
dependencies on certain visual patterns.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: RV-List: A peek into the future??
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we
> will have in the panel a decade from now?
>
> What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not
> mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all
> flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan?
>
> The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions.
> I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in
> the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight
> instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those
> instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all!
>
>
http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComputing.pdf
>
> No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens,
> it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental
> aviation.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | 153MC flies today |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Noel,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE - Again !!!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: "Rv-List@Matronics. Com" <rv-list@matronics.com>, "rvyahoo"
><RV10@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RV-List: 153MC flies today
>Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:28:35 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons"
><noel@blueskyaviation.net>
>
>Had a great day today, took RV-6A 153MC off the ground for the fist time
>today. Subsequently put 7 hours on it with out a hitch, god I love VAN'S
>stuff.
>
>O-360-A1A
>Holy Cowl with plenum
>NACA scoop for oil cooler
>Fixed pitch
>basic panel
>
>after 4 RV's I still get that RV grin
>:>)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Noel Simmons
>Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
>Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
>noel@blueskyaviation.net
> <http://www.blueskyaviation.net/> www.blueskyaviation.net
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 11
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| Subject: | A peek into the future?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
One issue I've never seen debated is the risk management/tolerance of these
systems, be it OZ, SATS, HITS or ??. The NASA SATS program seemingly wants
to hand the airplane keys to anyone checked out on a Game Boy. Great concept
- make it super easy to fly in all weather and the flying population will
grow enough to support the ground infrastructure. Except what happens when
the electrowizzies die and the "pilot/console operator" has never flown
anything else? The old timers (and FAA?) will say everyone needs to be able
to fly the old way, partial panel, needle-ball-airspeed, just like Lindy.
That destroys the benefit of the shallow learning curve. It's kind of a bank
loan approach - you only get the benefits if you don't need them. Accepting
that an occasional SATS airplane will fall out of the sky is likely not
politically (or insurance) acceptable. Maybe the answer is in higher
redundancy or recovery chutes ala Cirrus (OMG I can't believe I wrote that)
or anti-gravity belts or something else. Personally, I'd like to see the
OZ/SATS/HITS concepts flourish. I won't have any steam gauges in the Phoenix
and I'll manage the risk. But I'd sure like to hear how the visionaries
propose to manage the risk for their ab initio OZ/SATS pilots. If anyone has
seen such a discussion please pass it along.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> In essence, they found that using the Oz symbols,
> inexperienced pilots were much more capable of controlling
> the airplane (actually, flight simulator) under varying
> conditions of turbulence and distraction (reading text) than
> they were with conventional instrumentation.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Well Im about to throw down panel money on the 8 and I would really like
to do the 430/MX20/ Garmin GTX 330 Mode s transponder.
Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff.
Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull
the trigger. Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good
excuse and can hold you accountable later:-)
Thanks
Michael Stewart
Do not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good
>excuse and can hold you accountable later:-)
>
>
I'll give you a good excuse: so you can tell me all about how great it
is so when I build my -7 I will have a good excuse to buy one :)
--
Chris W
Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com
Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>>Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff.
Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull
the trigger. <<
Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a serial-altitude-data transponder
that would be compatible with the Dynon "new model." Google is not proving
much help... I want to pull some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul,
but ditching my almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking
of going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so
forth.
-Bill B
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
I'm not flying with a mode s, but I wonder why you want
to spend more money so "big brother" can track you? Rhetorical
question, BTW.
If you want to get the truth of mode s, this is a good
place to start:
http://www.collisionavoidance.org/
Mickey
>...
>Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull
>the trigger. Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good
>excuse and can hold you accountable later:-)
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> >I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so
>
>Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern.
>
Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to
stainless??
I also don't know about the electroplating. If the firewall wasn't already
hanging on the front of the fuselage, that would be an option. Gotta be
tough with it attached to the airframe, wouldn't it?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
Mike and anyone else wanting to know about mode S. Call Greg at Grand
Rapids, he just recently installed it in his 6. He and I were talking about
something else when the conversation turned to my Monroy and his mode S.
Also, I think Greg in Cincy (Ohio Valley RVators) has the Garmin mode S in
his 6.
I've got my Garmin 327 receiving altitude info from my first generation
Dynon, works great.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" <ken@truckstop.com>
The GTX 327 is one. That's what I have and plan on using. They're not bad on the
used market. That's how I got mine. This is the transponder Doug Medema at
Dynon is using so he made sure this one was compatible.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: SportAV8R@aol.com
>--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
>>>Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff.
>
>Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull
>the trigger. <<
>
>Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a serial-altitude-data transponder
that would be compatible with the Dynon "new model." Google is not proving
much help... I want to pull some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul,
but ditching my almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even
thinking of going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so
forth.
>
>-Bill B
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
SportAV8R@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
> Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a
> serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the
> Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull
> some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my
> almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of
> going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so
> forth.
Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder?
Sam Buchanan
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
I've never painted a firewall but we've painted stainless piping and vessels
regularly here in the petrochem plants. why paint a perfect good, new piece
of SS piping or vessel? It keeps the atmospheric contaminants from causing
external environmental and chloride stress corrosion cracking.
Also, you might (just guessing here) be able to offset some of the loss of
reflectivity by adding bulk/thickness to the layer of paint being applied in
order to provide some degree of thermal insulation. For example, apply
generous amount of primer then a couple of build or top coats. Might even
help a little with noise. I'm shooting from the hip on this one. Don't
forget - it'll also add weight and probably (!) be more flammable than
polished stainless steel.
Bryan
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall color |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to
> stainless??
Dana, I painted the BACK of my firewall with Concept, after thoroughly
Scotchbriting it, and it stuck just fine for 368 hrs.
Randy Lervold
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Alright Guys/Gals:
It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston
Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA
and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
passengers or baggage required".
This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not
afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism
exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
article -- not one.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/
- Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel@blueskyaviation.net>
The mobile electro plater's do emblems and bumpers at car shows attached to
the vehicle. A firewall that is clean would be a no brainier.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> >I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so
>
>Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern.
>
Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to
stainless??
I also don't know about the electroplating. If the firewall wasn't already
hanging on the front of the fuselage, that would be an option. Gotta be
tough with it attached to the airframe, wouldn't it?
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 24
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| Subject: | RE: more Rocket/Super 8 comments |
--> RV-List message posted by:
Tromping on? I surely did not see it that way. I put my thoughts out
there for all to see, and debate. It is quite fun if you ask me. Ego's
get left at the door. This is serious business and lightweights should
stay home.
I expect the S8 to weigh in at 60lbs heavier than my 6A does. How am I
gonna do that? Well the current S8's weigh in at 1250 empty. That is
60lbs over my heavy 6A which is loaded to the gills with stuff that I
love. And these 1250lbs numbers are on the std gear. I have the Grove
gear (sitting idlely waiting on the fuse to arrive next week) shaving
18lbs. I hope to not eat up all that savings with the increase weight of
smoke system, big tanks, and the ever tantalizing glass cockpit, but I
might. IF I get in at <=1250 Ill be one happy happy camper. That is the
power to weight Im after.
And thanks to all that have chimed in on the S8 issue. One of the best
threads I have seen in quite some time. Bring it on. Keep it coming.
Mike Stewart
S8 mounting tips.
-----Original Message-----
From: Frazier, Vincent A [mailto:VFrazier@usi.edu]
Subject: more Rocket/Super 8 comments
He he he.... I have to laugh because the Rocket list never gets this
much action on any topic. LOL
Also Michael Stewart has been a real gentleman throughout this thread.
We had emailed back and forth several times yesterday before my
pea-brain made the connection that it was his website comments that I
was tromping on! Some guys aren't so gracious and I take my hat off to
Michael for putting up with our well intended barbs.
I would not have any qualms about the Super 8s (or Super 6s either)if
some simple strengthening mods were done. It would be very easy to copy
what John Harmon has done on the Rocket and apply that to the RV
airframe. Most of the mods would involve a relatively simple increase
in skin thickness. Adding length to the tail would get a bit more
involved but is still reasonably straightforward.
For anyone who doesn't know what John Harmon did to Rocketize an RV-4,
here's a brief overview:
the wings are shortened about 7" per side and the rib spacing is
decreased,
the tail is lengthened about 7" with 4" of that length added between the
seats,
several skins in the forward fuselage are thickened,
a different cowl, motor mount, canopy, and several widened bulkheads are
needed due to widening of the fuselage. (Obviously the 8 wouldn't need
to be widened.)
And, of course, a big IO-540-C4B5 motor and HUGE Hartzell prop are
installed...don't kid yourself here... this is why it's a 1200# Rocket
and not a 950# RV-4 anymore. Please do the math for yourself.... 250#
difference and most of it is on the nose!
The gear geometry on the Rockets is changed to accommodate the weight on
the nose, with the Harmons tending to be more nose heavy on the ground.
The F-1 wheels are slightly farther forward to put more weight on the
tail. I'd be leary of simply leaving the RV-8 gear "as is" while adding
all of that weight up front. But I have no knowledge of the Super 8s
ground manners. Perhaps Bob J. will chime in again.
I've had the opportunity to ride in 3 different Harmons. The gear never
misbehaved whatsoever. Bob Japundza had a very good description of the
titanium gear yesterday. (I hate to say it in public, but I have a high
regard for Bob's opinions. He usually has it right.) Incidentally, the
titatium gear legs are without a doubt, the single most expensive part
of the entire airframe. I think I paid $850 apiece!!! If money makes
it good, these gear legs must be awesome! ;-)
There was discussion of cost also. My half breed Harmon/F1 Rocket has a
0-time Lyc and brand new prop, fully painted and upholstered, Grand
Rapids EFIS based panel with brand new avionics, etc, etc,... ALL new
everything, and I have all of the receipts to prove that I've not popped
the $50,000 barrier yet. I have taken exactly 5 years of spare time to
build it.
So, IMHO, a Super 8 with the Rocket mods listed above, and a Rocket gear
instead of the gear towers crowding your thighs would be "da bomb".
There's even a turtledeck mod for the RV-8 that a local RV-8 builder
(and others) have done. Looks nice.
Regards,
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
Message 25
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| Subject: | Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website:
Altitude Encoder Output
The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial
communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from
parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection
pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming
out on the market.
Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders
available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if
the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a
parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know
about.
The new EFIS-D10A provides a setup menu that allows you to select from
one of 4 possible protocols and an altimeter resolution of either 10 or
100 feet. The combination of these two selections should make the
EFIS-D10A compatible with most serial input capable transponders.
Protocol 1
Used By
Garmin AT (formerly UPS Aviation Technologies)
Baud rate
1200
Format
#AL, space, +/-sign, five altitude bytes, the letter "T" and the number
"25", two checksum bytes, and a carriage return
Example message
# AL +05200T+25D7[CR]
Protocol 2
Used By
Magellan
Baud rate
1200
Format
$MGL, +/- sign, five altitude digits, T+25, checksum, carriage return
Example message
$MGL+05200T+25D7[CR]
Protocol 3
Used By
Northstar, Garmin
Baud rate
2400
Format
ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return
Example message
ALT 05200[CR]
Protocol 4
Used By
Trimble, Garmin
Baud rate
9600
Format
ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return
Example message
ALT 05200[CR]
When purchasing a new transponder or looking to see if your existing
unit is compatible, please check with your owners manual, manufacturer's
representative or local avionics shop - please do not call Dynon.
<snip>
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
SportAV8R@aol.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
> Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a
> serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the
> Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull
> some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my
> almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of
> going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so
> forth.
Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder?
Sam Buchanan
==
==
==
==
Message 26
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Alright Guys/Gals:
>
>It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the
>Boston
>Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on
>GA
>and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
>passengers or baggage required".
>
>This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No,
>not
>afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of
>professionalism
>exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
>article -- not one.
>
>http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/
>
> - Jamie
I'm not laughing, nor am I afraid. I am, however, ticked off enough to spit
bullets. Freakin' idiotic scare tactic that provides plenty of motivation
to the terrorist pukes to do just as this article describes....if they
haven't already figured it out on their own. What's next? Prohibit RC
aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly right into a crowd
then.....
Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly it someday.
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder?
Sam Buchanan
Yes, I could,but it sorta goes against my philosophical grain to have an encoder
feature already built into an instrument and not use it (keep it light, KIS,
keep it cheap...) Besides, having the encoder BE the reference altimiter eliminates
(in some people's minds) the correspondence check thing (okay, let's not
go there again...)
do not archive
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
YOU guys should come and live in DC and see the crap we deal with. Armed
helicopters ready to intercept and shoot you down. Its nuts....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: GA Scare Piece
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >Alright Guys/Gals:
> >
> >It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the
> >Boston
> >Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on
> >GA
> >and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
> >passengers or baggage required".
> >
> >This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No,
> >not
> >afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of
> >professionalism
> >exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
> >article -- not one.
> >
>
>http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_smal
l_plane_terrorism_threat/
> >
> > - Jamie
>
> I'm not laughing, nor am I afraid. I am, however, ticked off enough to
spit
> bullets. Freakin' idiotic scare tactic that provides plenty of motivation
> to the terrorist pukes to do just as this article describes....if they
> haven't already figured it out on their own. What's next? Prohibit RC
> aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly right into a crowd
> then.....
>
> Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly it someday.
>
> do not archive
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. |
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been a pain trying to
research the input compatibility of various transponders online. No mention in
Garmin's web pages about the input of the GTX series, but I know from the install
manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping for a research
shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them with this inquiry.
>>That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website:
Altitude Encoder Output
The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial
communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from
parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection
pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming
out on the market.
Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders
available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if
the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a
parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know
about.<<
do not archive
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Was Mode S, now automatic billing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Was talking about Mode S with a buddy of mine (who just bought a big load of
that nice Garmin equipment). During that conversation about my experience
with it's traffic avoidance capabilities, I realized that not only will they
be able to tie a name with any possible "low passes" or other such activity,
but they'll also be set up for quick pay-for-service operation in the coming
years.
Kind of like an EZ Tag on the tollway - you call for flight following, first
you must press Ident (enter) once for credit, twice for debit. The $50 will
be automatically billed to your credit card for "services" rendered...
do not archive
wary of the all-knowing, all-powerful, cancerous, er uh, benevolent
government agencies
Bryan
>
>Altitude Encoder Output
>
>The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial
>communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from
>parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection
>pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming
>out on the market.
>
>Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders
>available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if
>the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a
>parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know
>about.
>The new EFIS-D10A provides a setup menu that allows you to select from
>one of 4 possible protocols and an altimeter resolution of either 10 or
>100 feet. The combination of these two selections should make the
>EFIS-D10A compatible with most serial input capable transponders.
>
>Protocol 1
>Used By
>Garmin AT (formerly UPS Aviation Technologies)
>Baud rate
>1200
>Format
> #AL, space, +/-sign, five altitude bytes, the letter "T" and the number
>"25", two checksum bytes, and a carriage return
>Example message
> # AL +05200T+25D7[CR]
>
>
>Protocol 2
>Used By
>Magellan
>Baud rate
>1200
>Format
>$MGL, +/- sign, five altitude digits, T+25, checksum, carriage return
>Example message
>$MGL+05200T+25D7[CR]
>
>Protocol 3
>Used By
>Northstar, Garmin
>Baud rate
>2400
>Format
>ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return
>Example message
>ALT 05200[CR]
>
>
>Protocol 4
>Used By
>Trimble, Garmin
>Baud rate
>9600
>
>Format
>ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return
>
>Example message
>ALT 05200[CR]
>
>
>When purchasing a new transponder or looking to see if your existing
>unit is compatible, please check with your owners manual, manufacturer's
>representative or local avionics shop - please do not call Dynon.
><snip>
>
>Mike
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>SportAV8R@aol.com wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> > Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a
> > serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the
> > Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull
> > some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my
> > almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of
> > going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so
> > forth.
>
>
>Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder?
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>==
>==
>==
>==
>
>
Message 31
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
...and don't forget about outlawing cars, trucks,
Rider vans, boats, etc. since terrorist have used all
of those as weapons!
> What's next? Prohibit RC
> aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly
> right into a crowd
> then.....
>
> Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly
> it someday.
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
My response to the idiot's editor:
"Karen Schaler is an idiot. I bet she doesn't leave home without her rape
whistle. Be honest. I bet she's affraid of her shadow, right?
If I were a terrorist I'd fill a camper, or bus, or truck or whatever with
much more explosives. Not a itty bitty puddle jumper airplane. She's
stupid...and so are you for printing such drivel.
Chuck Weyant
Santa Maria, CA"
Sorry to anyone offended by my mini-diatribe, but I get pissed at this kind
of crap!
Chuck
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Subject: RV-List: GA Scare Piece
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
> Alright Guys/Gals:
>
> It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the
Boston
> Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on
GA
> and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
> passengers or baggage required".
>
> This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No,
not
> afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of
professionalism
> exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
> article -- not one.
>
>
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/
>
> - Jamie
>
> do not archive
>
>
> --
> Jamie D. Painter
> RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
> http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
I will make a conversion circuit if someone will supply me with the
information on the gray coded output, like the logic levels, etc...
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SportAV8R@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output.
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been a pain trying
to research the input compatibility of various transponders online. No
mention in Garmin's web pages about the input of the GTX series, but I know
from the install manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping
for a research shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them with this
inquiry.
>>That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website:
Altitude Encoder Output
The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial
communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from
parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection
pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming
out on the market.
Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders
available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if
the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a
parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know
about.<<
do not archive
Message 34
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| Subject: | What's a fair price? |
0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
I am replacing my Orndorff RV6A seat cushions and seat backs with Oregon
Aero units. A friend offered to buy the Orndorff seats, but I am not settled
on what a fair price would be. I only paid $300 for them 9 years ago, and
they are in like-new condition. I see Orndorff now gets $600 for them...same
units.
What you consider a fair price...I don't want to take advantage of a friend,
nor do I want to "give" them away.
John
Message 35
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| Subject: | Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
The Garmin/UPSAT SL-70 takes both serial and gray code inputs. Has serial
output too which goes to my GX-60. I still mourn the buyout:-(
Greg
> --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>
> Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been
> a pain trying to research the input compatibility of various
> transponders online. No mention in Garmin's web pages about
> the input of the GTX series, but I know from the install
> manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping
> for a research shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them
> with this inquiry.
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
There is a very scary trend occuring that seems to be gaining momentum -
namely attacks like this on General Aviation.
To wit:
Aviation Week has an article on the DC area ADIZ and the wonderful job the
Customs and Immigration people are doing keeping all the nasty little planes
from being a threat to our sacred national capital. Included was the gem
that these security folks want a 60 mile radius (its now 30) permanent ADIZ
in DC where they require folks wanting to fly into it to land at "gateway"
airports for search and clearance before being allowed to fly into the ADIZ.
Also, TSA Inspectors would be located at all of these airports and the users
would pay a fee to support this force.
WTOP radio, a Washington DC area all news radio station has a terrorism
expert on this morning talking about the grave threat of attack via GA....to
their credit WTOP is inviting him back to ask him some questions tommorow
after being besieged commetns debunking his analysis from local aviators and
will have AOPA on as well for a counter view.
The Boston Globe thing....
This is scary because the tactics remind me of those who oppose guns. No
matter where you are on the gun issue you have to admit that the opposition
to guns uses a tactic that, at times, seems to want to make the gun owners
the problem and that if we just eliminated them the problem would go away.
Luckily for gun owners they have the NRA to fight for them and they are a
much larger segment of the populace. Not taking a side in that issue here
just pointing out the similarities to the issue we face.
Do not think it does not effect you because you are not in DC because if
they suceed in getting these sort of draconian measures in place here in the
name of security how long do you think it will be before the Senator
Schumer's and the Mayor Daley's of the world start clamoring for the same
level of protection for their cities.
If you think they (these security types) will never get what they want
consider this:
In DC they recently closed streets around the Capitol Building and set up
checkpoints (like Nazi Germany!) based on some intelligence they got that AL
Queda was planning on blowing up buildings in DC. After the fact they
admited the intelligence was vague and there was no specific information.
The relevent point is they did it in the middle of the night and didnt
inform a single elected official (not the Mayor or the Speaker of the House,
no one) they were going to do it. City officails are livid and have been
calling for them to open back the streets as it plays havoc with local
traffic to no avail. When the time comes they will make the same kind of
airspace grab and nothing will be done about it.
BTW - the streets are stilled closed.....
I am not some sort of right wing or left wing nut but this scares the hell
out of me. If we continue this way we are letting the damn terrorists win
by default.
Sorr this is not directly RV related but it effects your right to fly in a
very real way.
Write your Congressman and send money to AOPA - they are the only ones
fighting for us...
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com
Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster cage lining.
Folks that read that pathetic excuse of a news paper have long since given up
their common sense and that rag merely reflects their liberal stupidity.
It's just giving them a story they want to read. Not journalism. If you read
that paper and just now figure it out God bless you, you need it.
do not archive
In a message dated 8/26/2004 3:54:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jdpainter@jpainter.org writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Alright Guys/Gals:
It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston
Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA
and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
passengers or baggage required".
This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not
afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism
exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
article -- not one.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_p
lane_terrorism_threat/
- Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
ALL of us as Aviators need to stand up for our rights.
The reason that vans haven't become targets after
multiple world trade center attack attempts and
Oklahoma City is because the pure number of people
that rely on vans is huge, especially compared to the
size of the GA population.
On the other hand, GA is a relatively easy target for
the media and public, because the number of people
affected is only a tiny percentage of the population.
That is why it is important for Aviators to be very
vocal (but not obnoxious or unreasonable) about
supporting our rights and educating the general
public. In a addition, it's important to support our
most influential advocacy group, AOPA!
Skylor
--- Richard Bibb <rebibb@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb"
> <rebibb@comcast.net>
>
> There is a very scary trend occuring that seems to
> be gaining momentum -
> namely attacks like this on General Aviation.
>
_______________________________
Message 39
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| Subject: | What's a fair price? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Fair would be sell them for the same price you payed. Consider you using the
seat's for 9 year's for free.
>From: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: What's a fair price?
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:29:48 -0600 0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS
>From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
>
>I am replacing my Orndorff RV6A seat cushions and seat backs with Oregon
>Aero units. A friend offered to buy the Orndorff seats, but I am not
>settled
>on what a fair price would be. I only paid $300 for them 9 years ago, and
>they are in like-new condition. I see Orndorff now gets $600 for
>them...same
>units.
>
>What you consider a fair price...I don't want to take advantage of a
>friend,
>nor do I want to "give" them away.
>
>John
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
> Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster cage
lining.
>
The problemis it gets picked up and repeated over and over. The WTOP radio
piece was because they read the Globe thing, saw a good (as in sensational)
item to report on, called the "expert" and he was more than willing to fill
the drive time airways around the nations capital with this drivel letting
literally several million commuters hear this crap and be scared about
little planes. You know its crap, I know its crap, but some innocent out
there is now thinking they better ban those little planes from coming
anywhere near a stadium lest 90,000 God fearing NFL fans be put at risk.
Unfortunately the logical argument against this sort of thing gets lost in
the shuffle, sort of like the correction to the story where you are accused
of beating your wife gets put on page 24 in fine print. The "damage" has
already been done.
I'm not try9ing to be alarmist but to approriate those immortal words for a
new application - "Houston, we ahve a problem..."
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: What's a fair price? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
Hmm - what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree it to be. I'd ask him
to make an offer and if it seems oK take it - if not counter. Sounds like
the american, well not exactly american as its practiced in every corner of
the globe, way.
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
I just read the piece. It just reminds me of all security types (with apologies
to Michael Stewart.) Security specialists are paid to find and plan for boogey
men in the shadows and tell us how to protect ourselves from them. It's up
to the people paying the bill to decide if there is ample risk of boogey men
to justify the expense of protecting themselves. One of the "experts" pointed
out in the article that they had already done a risk assessment and it just
didn't pan out to do much of anything about GA.
I don't think GA has much to worry about at this point but we do need to remain
on our guard. This came from Henry Kissenger:
Henry Kissinger gave an address to the Bilderberger organization meeting at Evian,
France, on May 21, 1991. As transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the
Swiss delegates, he said:
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore
order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told
there was
an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our
very
existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders
to
deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When
presented with this scenario, individual rights will willingly be relinquished
for the
guarantee of their well-being granted to them by their world government."
I'm not a conspiracy theorist but... tell me Washington guys: are there black helicopters
flying around DC? Don't let them use this as "the threat." Demand
your freedoms!
Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter"
Alright Guys/Gals:
It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston
Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA
and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of
passengers or baggage required".
This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not
afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism
exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this
article -- not one.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/
- Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: plaurence@the-beach.net
Come ya'all.
nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about building airplanes.
And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space
.
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
Peter Laurence
On 26 Aug 2004 at 19:11, Richard Bibb wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" <rebibb@comcast.net>
>
>
> > Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster
> > cage
> lining.
> >
> The problemis it gets picked up and repeated over and over. The WTOP
> radio
> piece was because they read the Globe thing, saw a good (as in
> sensational) item to report on, called the "expert" and he was more
> than willing to fill the drive time airways around the nations capital
> with this drivel letting literally several million commuters hear this
> crap and be scared about little planes. You know its crap, I know its
> crap, but some innocent out there is now thinking they better ban
> those little planes from coming anywhere near a stadium lest 90,000
> God fearing NFL fans be put at risk. Unfortunately the logical
> argument against this sort of thing gets lost in the shuffle, sort of
> like the correction to the story where you are accused of beating your
> wife gets put on page 24 in fine print. The "damage" has already been
> done.
>
> I'm not try9ing to be alarmist but to approriate those immortal words
> for a new application - "Houston, we ahve a problem..."
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> ====
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Does anyone know how to get in touch with Lyle Hefel? A good friend of mine is
interested in buying an -8 and heard he might be willing to sell his. He called
Lyle's phone number and left a few messages for him, but has not heard back.
If anyone can help, I would sure appreciate it.
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
Message 45
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--> RV-List message posted by: plaurence@the-beach.net
Can anyone point me to a cad 3 view drawing of a RV9A?
Thanks
peter
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham |
--> RV-List message posted by: Elrod3794@aol.com
Doug I have space in my hanger at Bessemer (eky)call me.
mike at 205 3691103 or
Bob at 205 5414103
m. elrod
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Lyle is building a new house and is quite busy. You might try
rvbuilder@dubuque.net
Cy Galley
Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Subject: RV-List: Lyle Hefel
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
>
> Does anyone know how to get in touch with Lyle Hefel? A good friend of
mine is interested in buying an -8 and heard he might be willing to sell
his. He called Lyle's phone number and left a few messages for him, but has
not heard back. If anyone can help, I would sure appreciate it.
> James Cimino
> RV-8 SN 80039
> 100+ Hours
> 570-842-4057
> http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>
>
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about building
>airplanes.
>And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space
I do hope you're joking, because this is highly relevant to everything to do
with an RV. Here's something else for the discussion - flying is as much a
right as gun ownership, or being able to live in the state of your choice.
You misguided, flying is a "privilege", pro-centralized government folks put
that in your pipe and smoke it! But these are the same people who think the
Constitution is a "living" document and history is fluid.
The authoritarians, with no opposition from apathetic sheeple in this
country, are conspiring to steal all our freedoms. Example - the federal
police agencies (Secret Service, etc.) are best able to assure the safety of
the citizens *with NO planes flying*, particularly the extravagent little
gas-guzzlers being flown by rich people. They have nothing to gain by
letting us fly, and their jobs to loose if anything remotely "terroristic"
*could* happen. It's going to get much worse before, if ever, getting
better.
The same Utopians who believe the little planes of GA offer far too much
personal mobility/freedom, with not nearly enough government control. The
same liberal media who want's to *destroy one groups liberties* or enable
other's deaths for fear of *offending* a minority group. The same group
more concerned about the activities in the Abu Ghrab prison than what will
happen if one of the members of the Religion of Peace sets off a Coke can
dirty bomb in a Manhattan subway station.
Join AOPA - they're the only one's even remotely active or effective in
fighting the ignorant, lazy efforts of the government weasels and the
weak-minded, agenda-driven mass media. They give me a bit of hope.
do not archive
Bryan Jones
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 8/26/2004 3:23:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RV8ter@aol.com writes:
Folks that read that pathetic excuse of a news paper have long since given
up
their common sense and that rag merely reflects their liberal stupidity.
=====================================
Unfortunately the liberals have no monopoly on stupidity. Just choose your
subject matter (religion, sex, violence, guns,energy, immigration, drugs,
corporate finance, etc.) and there is certainly stupidity aplenty across the
board.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
Message 50
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo@verizon.net>
How many types of messages do we see posted on the RV-List?
WHICH TYPE DOESN'T BELONG ON THIS LIST?
1. Building Questions
2. Answers to Building Questions
3. First Flights
4. Congratulations to First Flights
5. Flight Questions
6. Answers to Flight Questions
7. Insurance Questions
8. Answers to Insurance Questions
9. Flying Stories
10. Anybody know where Mr. X is?
11. Answer to where Mr. X is
12. Where can I get a radio, GPS, transponder, etc. ?
13. Answer to where to get . is
14. Reports on Attacks on General Aviation
15. Replies to Attacks .
16. RV-List Self Appointed Cops with "Knock IT OFF" messages
17. Anybody going an Air Show and have an empty seat?
18. Replies to request
19. Anyway want to give a newbie a RV ride
20. Replies to request
21. Matt - The Real RV-List Administrator - "Knock it off "messages
22. Matt - It is time to pony up some money so Matt can keep these Lists
going
23. Matt - List guide line Messages about once a month
24. Matt - Email address messages (don't reply or you will be dropped)
25. Matt - Any damn thing he wants
26. Pure B_LL SH_T, like this, to make the RV-List Cops go crazy - Have a
nice day
please
do not archive
this drivel
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
Harmon Rocket-II
http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
PS - Answer to question is 16 and of course 26
Sorry Matt, but there are times when I can't control myself.
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: GA Scare Piece |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>
>
> >nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about
>building
> >airplanes.
> >And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space
>
>I do hope you're joking, because this is highly relevant to everything to
>do
>with an RV. Here's something else for the discussion - flying is as much a
>right as gun ownership, or being able to live in the state of your choice.
>You misguided, flying is a "privilege", pro-centralized government folks
>put
>that in your pipe and smoke it! But these are the same people who think
>the
>Constitution is a "living" document and history is fluid.
>
>The authoritarians, with no opposition from apathetic sheeple in this
>country, are conspiring to steal all our freedoms. Example - the federal
>police agencies (Secret Service, etc.) are best able to assure the safety
>of
>the citizens *with NO planes flying*, particularly the extravagent little
>gas-guzzlers being flown by rich people. They have nothing to gain by
>letting us fly, and their jobs to loose if anything remotely "terroristic"
>*could* happen. It's going to get much worse before, if ever, getting
>better.
>
>The same Utopians who believe the little planes of GA offer far too much
>personal mobility/freedom, with not nearly enough government control. The
>same liberal media who want's to *destroy one groups liberties* or enable
>other's deaths for fear of *offending* a minority group. The same group
>more concerned about the activities in the Abu Ghrab prison than what will
>happen if one of the members of the Religion of Peace sets off a Coke can
>dirty bomb in a Manhattan subway station.
>
>Join AOPA - they're the only one's even remotely active or effective in
>fighting the ignorant, lazy efforts of the government weasels and the
>weak-minded, agenda-driven mass media. They give me a bit of hope.
>
>do not archive
>
>Bryan Jones
Amen, Brutha Jones! Tell it like it is. Couldn't do better myself.
Brian Denk (we Bry/Brian guys gotta stick together)
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Ghenghis Khan conservative corps charter member.
do not archive, of course. Oh wait, we already didn't. Nevermind. :)
Message 52
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Lyle is building a new house and is quite busy. You might try
>rvbuilder@dubuque.net
>
>Cy Galley
>Safety Programs Editor
>Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
I can just see it now. It'll win a home design award and show up on the
cover of "Better Homes and Gardens". Then, he'll sell it, and build several
more. Each one better than the last.
The guy amazes me!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Kneels at the altar of Sir Hefel's artistry in metal.
do not archive
Message 53
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--> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
After 10+ years of construction RV-6 Ser. 22935 N164CB flew from MQY in
Smyrna TN today. It may not look like much, but at least it doesn't fly
too bad. Both wings are heavy, and you have to hold right rudder going
up and left rudder coming down :-) The planes not bent, and my pants are
still dry so I consider the flight a success.
Chris Brooks
DNA
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Congratulations!
do not archive
Chris Brooks <BrooksRV6@webtv.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks)
After 10+ years of construction RV-6 Ser. 22935 N164CB flew from MQY in
Smyrna TN today. It may not look like much, but at least it doesn't fly
too bad. Both wings are heavy, and you have to hold right rudder going
up and left rudder coming down :-) The planes not bent, and my pants are
still dry so I consider the flight a success.
Chris Brooks
DNA
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
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