---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 08/26/04: 54 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:44 AM - Re: Re: RV8-List: IFR instruments (Dana Overall) 2. 04:44 AM - Firewall color (Dana Overall) 3. 05:07 AM - Anyone know Mike DeMarino... (Alfred Klewin) 4. 05:13 AM - Re: Firewall color (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 5. 05:21 AM - Any RV builders/flyers in New Zealand? (sheldon barrett) 6. 06:54 AM - Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Doug Weiler) 7. 07:03 AM - more Rocket/Super 8 comments (Frazier, Vincent A) 8. 07:04 AM - Re: Firewall color (RV_8 Pilot) 9. 07:29 AM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Dan Checkoway) 10. 07:59 AM - Re: 153MC flies today (Charles Rowbotham) 11. 09:24 AM - Re: A peek into the future?? (Greg Young) 12. 10:22 AM - Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 13. 11:26 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Chris W) 14. 11:39 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (SportAV8R@aol.com) 15. 11:48 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Mickey Coggins) 16. 11:54 AM - Re: Firewall color (Dana Overall) 17. 11:58 AM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Dana Overall) 18. 12:03 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Ken Simmons) 19. 12:17 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (Sam Buchanan) 20. 12:25 PM - Re: Firewall color (RV_8 Pilot) 21. 12:26 PM - Re: Firewall color (Randy Lervold) 22. 12:53 PM - GA Scare Piece (Jamie Painter) 23. 01:01 PM - Re: Firewall color (Noel & Yoshie Simmons) 24. 01:11 PM - Re: more Rocket/Super 8 comments (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com) 25. 01:21 PM - Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 26. 01:44 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Brian Denk) 27. 01:46 PM - Re: Looking for an RV'er with mode s (SportAV8R@aol.com) 28. 02:05 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb) 29. 02:05 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (SportAV8R@aol.com) 30. 02:06 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now automatic billing (RV_8 Pilot) 31. 02:19 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Skylor Piper) 32. 02:25 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Chuck Weyant) 33. 02:25 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Trampas) 34. 02:32 PM - What's a fair price? (John) 35. 02:35 PM - Re: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. (Greg Young) 36. 03:01 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb) 37. 03:22 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (RV8ter@aol.com) 38. 03:32 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Skylor Piper) 39. 04:01 PM - Re: What's a fair price? (BRUCE GRAY) 40. 04:13 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Richard Bibb) 41. 04:16 PM - Re: What's a fair price? (Richard Bibb) 42. 05:02 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Scott Vanartsdalen) 43. 05:28 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (plaurence@the-beach.net) 44. 05:42 PM - Lyle Hefel (Jim Cimino) 45. 06:08 PM - Cad 3 view (plaurence@the-beach.net) 46. 06:26 PM - Re: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham (Elrod3794@aol.com) 47. 06:50 PM - Re: Lyle Hefel (cgalley) 48. 07:27 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (RV_8 Pilot) 49. 08:00 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Vanremog@aol.com) 50. 08:13 PM - knock it off (Tom Gummo) 51. 08:53 PM - Re: GA Scare Piece (Brian Denk) 52. 08:55 PM - Re: Lyle Hefel (Brian Denk) 53. 08:58 PM - First Flight (BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks)) 54. 09:31 PM - Re: First Flight (Scott Vanartsdalen) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:44:12 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: RV-List: RE: RV8-List: IFR instruments --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >--> RV8-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" > > >Hi Guys, > >I was almost convinced the Garmin GNS 430 hooked to a Dynon and a >Digitrack A/P was the almost perfect base to a light weight IFR setup >for an RV-7, >Looking at all of this gives me aN IFR panel for about $11k >including >the transponder and 2 axis A/P. The similar setup using the GNS 430 >comes in at about $14.5K with single axis A/P. Frank, I'm also wondering where you come up with the 14.5K price. Garmin 430 from Stark Aviation, Dynon and course intersecting Trio Avionics AP with stand alone altitude AP from Trutrak is substantially less than 14.5K. As a side note, man you sure posted this one to a lot of lists:-) Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:40 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK gang time to ask/forward some stupid questions and ideas. Since everything on my airplane will be either black imron, black carbon fiber or gold I don't want the firewall to be stainless. I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so..................the idea of using a sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for the rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall. I have done more searches on google than I care to document so if anyone has any ideas/websites on how to accomplish the gold plate, gold foil or gold whatever I would really, really, really appreciate it. Wait until you see this carbon fiber panel with all the glass stuff in it turned on!!:-) but I digress....I need a gold firewall. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:16 AM PST US From: Alfred Klewin Subject: RV-List: Anyone know Mike DeMarino... --> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin If anyone knows how to contact Mike DeMarino please contact me off list.... Thanks... Kurt Klewin Do Not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:51 AM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Talk to one of those mobile gold plater guys. If it is conductive they can plat it. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK gang time to ask/forward some stupid questions and ideas. Since everything on my airplane will be either black imron, black carbon fiber or gold I don't want the firewall to be stainless. I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so..................the idea of using a sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for the rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall. I have done more searches on google than I care to document so if anyone has any ideas/websites on how to accomplish the gold plate, gold foil or gold whatever I would really, really, really appreciate it. Wait until you see this carbon fiber panel with all the glass stuff in it turned on!!:-) but I digress....I need a gold firewall. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:53 AM PST US From: "sheldon barrett" Subject: RV-List: Any RV builders/flyers in New Zealand? --> RV-List message posted by: "sheldon barrett" Going to New Zealand Oct 3rd to Oct 15th.. Was wondering if there are any RV guys/gals there for a looksee visit monitoring the list? Sheldon Barrett RV6A (Champ RV6 at LOE3). sheldon@frontiernet.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:54:34 AM PST US From: "Doug Weiler" Subject: Re: RV-List: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" Thanks Sam ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: RV-List: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > Doug, check with Doug Preston. He is a corporate pilot and TVRVBGer > based at Bessemer and he may be able to find room for you. > > dougpflyrv@aol.com > > Sam > > ============================ > > Doug Weiler wrote: > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Weiler" > > > > Fellow Listers: > > > > There is a chance that I may be in desperate need of hangar space for my > > RV-4 in the Birmingham, AL area from Aug 29 - Sep 3. My recourse is to > > hangar with one of the big FBO's at the BHM airport which could get rather > > pricey. Anyone have any ideas? > > > > Please contact off list or call my cell at 651-398-1184 > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Doug Weiler, pres MN Wing > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:03:46 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: more Rocket/Super 8 comments From: "Frazier, Vincent A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" He he he.... I have to laugh because the Rocket list never gets this much action on any topic. LOL Also Michael Stewart has been a real gentleman throughout this thread. We had emailed back and forth several times yesterday before my pea-brain made the connection that it was his website comments that I was tromping on! Some guys aren't so gracious and I take my hat off to Michael for putting up with our well intended barbs. I would not have any qualms about the Super 8s (or Super 6s either)if some simple strengthening mods were done. It would be very easy to copy what John Harmon has done on the Rocket and apply that to the RV airframe. Most of the mods would involve a relatively simple increase in skin thickness. Adding length to the tail would get a bit more involved but is still reasonably straightforward. For anyone who doesn't know what John Harmon did to Rocketize an RV-4, here's a brief overview: the wings are shortened about 7" per side and the rib spacing is decreased, the tail is lengthened about 7" with 4" of that length added between the seats, several skins in the forward fuselage are thickened, a different cowl, motor mount, canopy, and several widened bulkheads are needed due to widening of the fuselage. (Obviously the 8 wouldn't need to be widened.) And, of course, a big IO-540-C4B5 motor and HUGE Hartzell prop are installed...don't kid yourself here... this is why it's a 1200# Rocket and not a 950# RV-4 anymore. Please do the math for yourself.... 250# difference and most of it is on the nose! The gear geometry on the Rockets is changed to accommodate the weight on the nose, with the Harmons tending to be more nose heavy on the ground. The F-1 wheels are slightly farther forward to put more weight on the tail. I'd be leary of simply leaving the RV-8 gear "as is" while adding all of that weight up front. But I have no knowledge of the Super 8s ground manners. Perhaps Bob J. will chime in again. I've had the opportunity to ride in 3 different Harmons. The gear never misbehaved whatsoever. Bob Japundza had a very good description of the titanium gear yesterday. (I hate to say it in public, but I have a high regard for Bob's opinions. He usually has it right.) Incidentally, the titatium gear legs are without a doubt, the single most expensive part of the entire airframe. I think I paid $850 apiece!!! If money makes it good, these gear legs must be awesome! ;-) There was discussion of cost also. My half breed Harmon/F1 Rocket has a 0-time Lyc and brand new prop, fully painted and upholstered, Grand Rapids EFIS based panel with brand new avionics, etc, etc,... ALL new everything, and I have all of the receipts to prove that I've not popped the $50,000 barrier yet. I have taken exactly 5 years of spare time to build it. So, IMHO, a Super 8 with the Rocket mods listed above, and a Rocket gear instead of the gear towers crowding your thighs would be "da bomb". There's even a turtledeck mod for the RV-8 that a local RV-8 builder (and others) have done. Looks nice. Regards, Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:53 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" >I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern. >sheet of 24 gold plate plate, gold foil, gold whatever. Remember, my >firewall is already attached awaiting the install of my engine mount for >the >rotary but only after figuring out how to "gold" the firewall. I'm not thinking very creatively this morning, so I can't offer much advice on making it gold right now. But you do realize that nice, shiny stainless steel will reflect radiant energy (heat) better than any color, helping to keep your feet cool. If I just had to have it gold, I'd buff the outer surface of the firewall or maybe use a portable grit blaster to rough it up a little. Clean it/degrease it really well, then shoot it with a gold metallic flake automotive paint (urethane, acrylic). IMO, it's a little late for electroplating. 2 cents Bryan ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:18 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: A peek into the future?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Notice how in their study they used people who had never been exposed to conventional flight instruments? Give those people a Dynon or Blue Mountain EFIS and I'll bet you'll see virtually the same test results. I inferred from this that we, pilots who have been trained on conventional instruments, may be at a disadvantage because of our prior established dependencies on certain visual patterns. do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: RV-List: A peek into the future?? > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > This is not related to RV-dom in its present form, but who knows what we > will have in the panel a decade from now? > > What would our electronic flight instruments look like if they were not > mimicking mechanical gyros? What if there was a way to portray all > flight parameters in a format that didn't require an instrument scan? > > The following link is to a study that is investigating these questions. > I do not make any claims to understand even half of what is discussed in > the paper, but I find it fascinating to consider how our flight > instruments may appear at some time in the future. Maybe those > instrument panels on Star Trek weren't that outrageous after all! > > http://www.ihmc.us/research/projects/OZ_UCAV/downloads/OzHumanCenteredComputing.pdf > > No doubt if something along the lines of the above study ever happens, > it will be available commercially first in the realm of experimental > aviation. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:59:30 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: 153MC flies today --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Noel, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE - Again !!!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: "Rv-List@Matronics. Com" , "rvyahoo" > >Subject: RV-List: 153MC flies today >Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:28:35 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" > > >Had a great day today, took RV-6A 153MC off the ground for the fist time >today. Subsequently put 7 hours on it with out a hitch, god I love VAN'S >stuff. > >O-360-A1A >Holy Cowl with plenum >NACA scoop for oil cooler >Fixed pitch >basic panel > >after 4 RV's I still get that RV grin >:>))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons >Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. >Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574 >noel@blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:24:35 AM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: A peek into the future?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" One issue I've never seen debated is the risk management/tolerance of these systems, be it OZ, SATS, HITS or ??. The NASA SATS program seemingly wants to hand the airplane keys to anyone checked out on a Game Boy. Great concept - make it super easy to fly in all weather and the flying population will grow enough to support the ground infrastructure. Except what happens when the electrowizzies die and the "pilot/console operator" has never flown anything else? The old timers (and FAA?) will say everyone needs to be able to fly the old way, partial panel, needle-ball-airspeed, just like Lindy. That destroys the benefit of the shallow learning curve. It's kind of a bank loan approach - you only get the benefits if you don't need them. Accepting that an occasional SATS airplane will fall out of the sky is likely not politically (or insurance) acceptable. Maybe the answer is in higher redundancy or recovery chutes ala Cirrus (OMG I can't believe I wrote that) or anti-gravity belts or something else. Personally, I'd like to see the OZ/SATS/HITS concepts flourish. I won't have any steam gauges in the Phoenix and I'll manage the risk. But I'd sure like to hear how the visionaries propose to manage the risk for their ab initio OZ/SATS pilots. If anyone has seen such a discussion please pass it along. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > In essence, they found that using the Oz symbols, > inexperienced pilots were much more capable of controlling > the airplane (actually, flight simulator) under varying > conditions of turbulence and distraction (reading text) than > they were with conventional instrumentation. > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:05 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Well Im about to throw down panel money on the 8 and I would really like to do the 430/MX20/ Garmin GTX 330 Mode s transponder. Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff. Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull the trigger. Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good excuse and can hold you accountable later:-) Thanks Michael Stewart Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:17 AM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: >Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good >excuse and can hold you accountable later:-) > > I'll give you a good excuse: so you can tell me all about how great it is so when I build my -7 I will have a good excuse to buy one :) -- Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. http://thewishzone.com Bring Back the HP 15C http://hp15c.org do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:53 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com >>Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff. Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull the trigger. << Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so forth. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:48:45 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I'm not flying with a mode s, but I wonder why you want to spend more money so "big brother" can track you? Rhetorical question, BTW. If you want to get the truth of mode s, this is a good place to start: http://www.collisionavoidance.org/ Mickey >... >Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull >the trigger. Someone please push me over the edge so's I have a good >excuse and can hold you accountable later:-) -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:19 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "RV_8 Pilot" > > >I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so > >Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern. > Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to stainless?? I also don't know about the electroplating. If the firewall wasn't already hanging on the front of the fuselage, that would be an option. Gotta be tough with it attached to the airframe, wouldn't it? Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:36 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" Mike and anyone else wanting to know about mode S. Call Greg at Grand Rapids, he just recently installed it in his 6. He and I were talking about something else when the conversation turned to my Monroy and his mode S. Also, I think Greg in Cincy (Ohio Valley RVators) has the Garmin mode S in his 6. I've got my Garmin 327 receiving altitude info from my first generation Dynon, works great. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:16 PM PST US From: "Ken Simmons" Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons" The GTX 327 is one. That's what I have and plan on using. They're not bad on the used market. That's how I got mine. This is the transponder Doug Medema at Dynon is using so he made sure this one was compatible. Ken ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: SportAV8R@aol.com >--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > >>>Looking for real world RV experience with this mode S stuff. > >Prices are down to almost reasonableness now and I am wanting to pull >the trigger. << > >Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so forth. > >-Bill B > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:05 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan SportAV8R@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a > serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the > Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull > some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my > almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of > going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so > forth. Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder? Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:52 PM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" I've never painted a firewall but we've painted stainless piping and vessels regularly here in the petrochem plants. why paint a perfect good, new piece of SS piping or vessel? It keeps the atmospheric contaminants from causing external environmental and chloride stress corrosion cracking. Also, you might (just guessing here) be able to offset some of the loss of reflectivity by adding bulk/thickness to the layer of paint being applied in order to provide some degree of thermal insulation. For example, apply generous amount of primer then a couple of build or top coats. Might even help a little with noise. I'm shooting from the hip on this one. Don't forget - it'll also add weight and probably (!) be more flammable than polished stainless steel. Bryan ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:06 PM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: Re: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to > stainless?? Dana, I painted the BACK of my firewall with Concept, after thoroughly Scotchbriting it, and it stuck just fine for 368 hrs. Randy Lervold ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:36 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: GA Scare Piece From: "Jamie Painter" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" Alright Guys/Gals: It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of passengers or baggage required". This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this article -- not one. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/ - Jamie do not archive -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:38 PM PST US From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" The mobile electro plater's do emblems and bumpers at car shows attached to the vehicle. A firewall that is clean would be a no brainier. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Subject: RE: RV-List: Firewall color --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" >From: "RV_8 Pilot" > > >I understand paint will not stick to the stainless so > >Sure it will. Just needs to be clean and have an anchor pattern. > Just want to make sure..........................paint WILL stick to stainless?? I also don't know about the electroplating. If the firewall wasn't already hanging on the front of the fuselage, that would be an option. Gotta be tough with it attached to the airframe, wouldn't it? Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:12 PM PST US From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com Subject: RV-List: RE: more Rocket/Super 8 comments --> RV-List message posted by: Tromping on? I surely did not see it that way. I put my thoughts out there for all to see, and debate. It is quite fun if you ask me. Ego's get left at the door. This is serious business and lightweights should stay home. I expect the S8 to weigh in at 60lbs heavier than my 6A does. How am I gonna do that? Well the current S8's weigh in at 1250 empty. That is 60lbs over my heavy 6A which is loaded to the gills with stuff that I love. And these 1250lbs numbers are on the std gear. I have the Grove gear (sitting idlely waiting on the fuse to arrive next week) shaving 18lbs. I hope to not eat up all that savings with the increase weight of smoke system, big tanks, and the ever tantalizing glass cockpit, but I might. IF I get in at <=1250 Ill be one happy happy camper. That is the power to weight Im after. And thanks to all that have chimed in on the S8 issue. One of the best threads I have seen in quite some time. Bring it on. Keep it coming. Mike Stewart S8 mounting tips. -----Original Message----- From: Frazier, Vincent A [mailto:VFrazier@usi.edu] Subject: more Rocket/Super 8 comments He he he.... I have to laugh because the Rocket list never gets this much action on any topic. LOL Also Michael Stewart has been a real gentleman throughout this thread. We had emailed back and forth several times yesterday before my pea-brain made the connection that it was his website comments that I was tromping on! Some guys aren't so gracious and I take my hat off to Michael for putting up with our well intended barbs. I would not have any qualms about the Super 8s (or Super 6s either)if some simple strengthening mods were done. It would be very easy to copy what John Harmon has done on the Rocket and apply that to the RV airframe. Most of the mods would involve a relatively simple increase in skin thickness. Adding length to the tail would get a bit more involved but is still reasonably straightforward. For anyone who doesn't know what John Harmon did to Rocketize an RV-4, here's a brief overview: the wings are shortened about 7" per side and the rib spacing is decreased, the tail is lengthened about 7" with 4" of that length added between the seats, several skins in the forward fuselage are thickened, a different cowl, motor mount, canopy, and several widened bulkheads are needed due to widening of the fuselage. (Obviously the 8 wouldn't need to be widened.) And, of course, a big IO-540-C4B5 motor and HUGE Hartzell prop are installed...don't kid yourself here... this is why it's a 1200# Rocket and not a 950# RV-4 anymore. Please do the math for yourself.... 250# difference and most of it is on the nose! The gear geometry on the Rockets is changed to accommodate the weight on the nose, with the Harmons tending to be more nose heavy on the ground. The F-1 wheels are slightly farther forward to put more weight on the tail. I'd be leary of simply leaving the RV-8 gear "as is" while adding all of that weight up front. But I have no knowledge of the Super 8s ground manners. Perhaps Bob J. will chime in again. I've had the opportunity to ride in 3 different Harmons. The gear never misbehaved whatsoever. Bob Japundza had a very good description of the titanium gear yesterday. (I hate to say it in public, but I have a high regard for Bob's opinions. He usually has it right.) Incidentally, the titatium gear legs are without a doubt, the single most expensive part of the entire airframe. I think I paid $850 apiece!!! If money makes it good, these gear legs must be awesome! ;-) There was discussion of cost also. My half breed Harmon/F1 Rocket has a 0-time Lyc and brand new prop, fully painted and upholstered, Grand Rapids EFIS based panel with brand new avionics, etc, etc,... ALL new everything, and I have all of the receipts to prove that I've not popped the $50,000 barrier yet. I have taken exactly 5 years of spare time to build it. So, IMHO, a Super 8 with the Rocket mods listed above, and a Rocket gear instead of the gear towers crowding your thighs would be "da bomb". There's even a turtledeck mod for the RV-8 that a local RV-8 builder (and others) have done. Looks nice. Regards, Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:48 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website: Altitude Encoder Output The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming out on the market. Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know about. The new EFIS-D10A provides a setup menu that allows you to select from one of 4 possible protocols and an altimeter resolution of either 10 or 100 feet. The combination of these two selections should make the EFIS-D10A compatible with most serial input capable transponders. Protocol 1 Used By Garmin AT (formerly UPS Aviation Technologies) Baud rate 1200 Format #AL, space, +/-sign, five altitude bytes, the letter "T" and the number "25", two checksum bytes, and a carriage return Example message # AL +05200T+25D7[CR] Protocol 2 Used By Magellan Baud rate 1200 Format $MGL, +/- sign, five altitude digits, T+25, checksum, carriage return Example message $MGL+05200T+25D7[CR] Protocol 3 Used By Northstar, Garmin Baud rate 2400 Format ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return Example message ALT 05200[CR] Protocol 4 Used By Trimble, Garmin Baud rate 9600 Format ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return Example message ALT 05200[CR] When purchasing a new transponder or looking to see if your existing unit is compatible, please check with your owners manual, manufacturer's representative or local avionics shop - please do not call Dynon. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan SportAV8R@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a > serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the > Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull > some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my > almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of > going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so > forth. Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder? Sam Buchanan == == == == ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:44:03 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >Alright Guys/Gals: > >It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the >Boston >Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on >GA >and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of >passengers or baggage required". > >This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, >not >afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of >professionalism >exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this >article -- not one. > >http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/ > > - Jamie I'm not laughing, nor am I afraid. I am, however, ticked off enough to spit bullets. Freakin' idiotic scare tactic that provides plenty of motivation to the terrorist pukes to do just as this article describes....if they haven't already figured it out on their own. What's next? Prohibit RC aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly right into a crowd then..... Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly it someday. do not archive ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:57 PM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder? Sam Buchanan Yes, I could,but it sorta goes against my philosophical grain to have an encoder feature already built into an instrument and not use it (keep it light, KIS, keep it cheap...) Besides, having the encoder BE the reference altimiter eliminates (in some people's minds) the correspondence check thing (okay, let's not go there again...) do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Bibb" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" YOU guys should come and live in DC and see the crap we deal with. Armed helicopters ready to intercept and shoot you down. Its nuts.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: GA Scare Piece > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > > > >Alright Guys/Gals: > > > >It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the > >Boston > >Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on > >GA > >and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of > >passengers or baggage required". > > > >This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, > >not > >afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of > >professionalism > >exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this > >article -- not one. > > > >http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_smal l_plane_terrorism_threat/ > > > > - Jamie > > I'm not laughing, nor am I afraid. I am, however, ticked off enough to spit > bullets. Freakin' idiotic scare tactic that provides plenty of motivation > to the terrorist pukes to do just as this article describes....if they > haven't already figured it out on their own. What's next? Prohibit RC > aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly right into a crowd > then..... > > Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly it someday. > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:26 PM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been a pain trying to research the input compatibility of various transponders online. No mention in Garmin's web pages about the input of the GTX series, but I know from the install manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping for a research shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them with this inquiry. >>That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website: Altitude Encoder Output The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming out on the market. Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know about.<< do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:36 PM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RE: RV-List: Was Mode S, now automatic billing --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" Was talking about Mode S with a buddy of mine (who just bought a big load of that nice Garmin equipment). During that conversation about my experience with it's traffic avoidance capabilities, I realized that not only will they be able to tie a name with any possible "low passes" or other such activity, but they'll also be set up for quick pay-for-service operation in the coming years. Kind of like an EZ Tag on the tollway - you call for flight following, first you must press Ident (enter) once for credit, twice for debit. The $50 will be automatically billed to your credit card for "services" rendered... do not archive wary of the all-knowing, all-powerful, cancerous, er uh, benevolent government agencies Bryan > >Altitude Encoder Output > >The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial >communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from >parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection >pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming >out on the market. > >Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders >available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if >the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a >parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know >about. >The new EFIS-D10A provides a setup menu that allows you to select from >one of 4 possible protocols and an altimeter resolution of either 10 or >100 feet. The combination of these two selections should make the >EFIS-D10A compatible with most serial input capable transponders. > >Protocol 1 >Used By >Garmin AT (formerly UPS Aviation Technologies) >Baud rate >1200 >Format > #AL, space, +/-sign, five altitude bytes, the letter "T" and the number >"25", two checksum bytes, and a carriage return >Example message > # AL +05200T+25D7[CR] > > >Protocol 2 >Used By >Magellan >Baud rate >1200 >Format >$MGL, +/- sign, five altitude digits, T+25, checksum, carriage return >Example message >$MGL+05200T+25D7[CR] > >Protocol 3 >Used By >Northstar, Garmin >Baud rate >2400 >Format >ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return >Example message >ALT 05200[CR] > > >Protocol 4 >Used By >Trimble, Garmin >Baud rate >9600 > >Format >ALT, space, five altitude bytes, carriage return > >Example message >ALT 05200[CR] > > >When purchasing a new transponder or looking to see if your existing >unit is compatible, please check with your owners manual, manufacturer's >representative or local avionics shop - please do not call Dynon. > > >Mike >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Looking for an RV'er with mode s > >--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > >SportAV8R@aol.com wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > > > Here's a related plea: someone tell me who makes a > > serial-altitude-data transponder that would be compatible with the > > Dynon "new model." Google is not proving much help... I want to pull > > some triggers of my own on a glass panel overhaul, but ditching my > > almost new Garmin GTX-320 xpdr isn't appealing; I'm even thinking of > > going over to the dark side and looking at BMA, Grand Rapids, & so > > forth. > > >Couldn't you just buy an altitude encoder for your existing xsponder? > >Sam Buchanan > > >== >== >== >== > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:44 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: RE: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper ...and don't forget about outlawing cars, trucks, Rider vans, boats, etc. since terrorist have used all of those as weapons! > What's next? Prohibit RC > aircraft too? Can load them up with nasties and fly > right into a crowd > then..... > > Aw heck with it. I can't even think straight now. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 hoping I'll actually be "allowed" to fly > it someday. > > do not archive > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:23 PM PST US From: "Chuck Weyant" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" My response to the idiot's editor: "Karen Schaler is an idiot. I bet she doesn't leave home without her rape whistle. Be honest. I bet she's affraid of her shadow, right? If I were a terrorist I'd fill a camper, or bus, or truck or whatever with much more explosives. Not a itty bitty puddle jumper airplane. She's stupid...and so are you for printing such drivel. Chuck Weyant Santa Maria, CA" Sorry to anyone offended by my mini-diatribe, but I get pissed at this kind of crap! Chuck do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Painter" Subject: RV-List: GA Scare Piece > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > > Alright Guys/Gals: > > It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston > Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA > and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of > passengers or baggage required". > > This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not > afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism > exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this > article -- not one. > > http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/ > > - Jamie > > do not archive > > > -- > Jamie D. Painter > RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) > http://rv.jpainter.org > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:58 PM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. --> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" I will make a conversion circuit if someone will supply me with the information on the gray coded output, like the logic levels, etc... Regards, Trampas www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been a pain trying to research the input compatibility of various transponders online. No mention in Garmin's web pages about the input of the GTX series, but I know from the install manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping for a research shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them with this inquiry. >>That is exactly what they(Dynon) recommend. From their website: Altitude Encoder Output The new EFIS-D10A outputs altitude encoder data via serial communications using an ASCII formatted message. The change from parallel gray code used by the EFIS-D10 model was to free up connection pins for other features and be compatible with newer transponders coming out on the market. Dynon does not have a listing of serial equipped/compatible transponders available in the market. You'll need to purchase an altitude encoder if the transponder you currently own or are considering only accepts a parallel input. There are no serial to parallel converters that we know about.<< do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:59 PM PST US From: "John" Subject: RV-List: What's a fair price? 0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters --> RV-List message posted by: "John" I am replacing my Orndorff RV6A seat cushions and seat backs with Oregon Aero units. A friend offered to buy the Orndorff seats, but I am not settled on what a fair price would be. I only paid $300 for them 9 years ago, and they are in like-new condition. I see Orndorff now gets $600 for them...same units. What you consider a fair price...I don't want to take advantage of a friend, nor do I want to "give" them away. John ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:32 PM PST US From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Was Mode S, now Dynon serial output. --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" The Garmin/UPSAT SL-70 takes both serial and gray code inputs. Has serial output too which goes to my GX-60. I still mourn the buyout:-( Greg > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > > Yup, been there, read that... not exactly helpful! It's been > a pain trying to research the input compatibility of various > transponders online. No mention in Garmin's web pages about > the input of the GTX series, but I know from the install > manual that my GTX 320 is parallel only. I was just hoping > for a research shortcut, since Dynon says not to bother them > with this inquiry. > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:47 PM PST US From: "Richard Bibb" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" There is a very scary trend occuring that seems to be gaining momentum - namely attacks like this on General Aviation. To wit: Aviation Week has an article on the DC area ADIZ and the wonderful job the Customs and Immigration people are doing keeping all the nasty little planes from being a threat to our sacred national capital. Included was the gem that these security folks want a 60 mile radius (its now 30) permanent ADIZ in DC where they require folks wanting to fly into it to land at "gateway" airports for search and clearance before being allowed to fly into the ADIZ. Also, TSA Inspectors would be located at all of these airports and the users would pay a fee to support this force. WTOP radio, a Washington DC area all news radio station has a terrorism expert on this morning talking about the grave threat of attack via GA....to their credit WTOP is inviting him back to ask him some questions tommorow after being besieged commetns debunking his analysis from local aviators and will have AOPA on as well for a counter view. The Boston Globe thing.... This is scary because the tactics remind me of those who oppose guns. No matter where you are on the gun issue you have to admit that the opposition to guns uses a tactic that, at times, seems to want to make the gun owners the problem and that if we just eliminated them the problem would go away. Luckily for gun owners they have the NRA to fight for them and they are a much larger segment of the populace. Not taking a side in that issue here just pointing out the similarities to the issue we face. Do not think it does not effect you because you are not in DC because if they suceed in getting these sort of draconian measures in place here in the name of security how long do you think it will be before the Senator Schumer's and the Mayor Daley's of the world start clamoring for the same level of protection for their cities. If you think they (these security types) will never get what they want consider this: In DC they recently closed streets around the Capitol Building and set up checkpoints (like Nazi Germany!) based on some intelligence they got that AL Queda was planning on blowing up buildings in DC. After the fact they admited the intelligence was vague and there was no specific information. The relevent point is they did it in the middle of the night and didnt inform a single elected official (not the Mayor or the Speaker of the House, no one) they were going to do it. City officails are livid and have been calling for them to open back the streets as it plays havoc with local traffic to no avail. When the time comes they will make the same kind of airspace grab and nothing will be done about it. BTW - the streets are stilled closed..... I am not some sort of right wing or left wing nut but this scares the hell out of me. If we continue this way we are letting the damn terrorists win by default. Sorr this is not directly RV related but it effects your right to fly in a very real way. Write your Congressman and send money to AOPA - they are the only ones fighting for us... ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:44 PM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster cage lining. Folks that read that pathetic excuse of a news paper have long since given up their common sense and that rag merely reflects their liberal stupidity. It's just giving them a story they want to read. Not journalism. If you read that paper and just now figure it out God bless you, you need it. do not archive In a message dated 8/26/2004 3:54:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, jdpainter@jpainter.org writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" Alright Guys/Gals: It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of passengers or baggage required". This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this article -- not one. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_p lane_terrorism_threat/ - Jamie do not archive -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:14 PM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper ALL of us as Aviators need to stand up for our rights. The reason that vans haven't become targets after multiple world trade center attack attempts and Oklahoma City is because the pure number of people that rely on vans is huge, especially compared to the size of the GA population. On the other hand, GA is a relatively easy target for the media and public, because the number of people affected is only a tiny percentage of the population. That is why it is important for Aviators to be very vocal (but not obnoxious or unreasonable) about supporting our rights and educating the general public. In a addition, it's important to support our most influential advocacy group, AOPA! Skylor --- Richard Bibb wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" > > > There is a very scary trend occuring that seems to > be gaining momentum - > namely attacks like this on General Aviation. > _______________________________ ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:16 PM PST US From: "BRUCE GRAY" Subject: RE: RV-List: What's a fair price? --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" Fair would be sell them for the same price you payed. Consider you using the seat's for 9 year's for free. >From: "John" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: What's a fair price? >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:29:48 -0600 0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS >From: contains numbers mixed in with letters > >--> RV-List message posted by: "John" > >I am replacing my Orndorff RV6A seat cushions and seat backs with Oregon >Aero units. A friend offered to buy the Orndorff seats, but I am not >settled >on what a fair price would be. I only paid $300 for them 9 years ago, and >they are in like-new condition. I see Orndorff now gets $600 for >them...same >units. > >What you consider a fair price...I don't want to take advantage of a >friend, >nor do I want to "give" them away. > >John > > Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:33 PM PST US From: "Richard Bibb" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" > Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster cage lining. > The problemis it gets picked up and repeated over and over. The WTOP radio piece was because they read the Globe thing, saw a good (as in sensational) item to report on, called the "expert" and he was more than willing to fill the drive time airways around the nations capital with this drivel letting literally several million commuters hear this crap and be scared about little planes. You know its crap, I know its crap, but some innocent out there is now thinking they better ban those little planes from coming anywhere near a stadium lest 90,000 God fearing NFL fans be put at risk. Unfortunately the logical argument against this sort of thing gets lost in the shuffle, sort of like the correction to the story where you are accused of beating your wife gets put on page 24 in fine print. The "damage" has already been done. I'm not try9ing to be alarmist but to approriate those immortal words for a new application - "Houston, we ahve a problem..." ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:16:54 PM PST US From: "Richard Bibb" Subject: Re: RV-List: What's a fair price? --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" Hmm - what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree it to be. I'd ask him to make an offer and if it seems oK take it - if not counter. Sounds like the american, well not exactly american as its practiced in every corner of the globe, way. ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:52 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I just read the piece. It just reminds me of all security types (with apologies to Michael Stewart.) Security specialists are paid to find and plan for boogey men in the shadows and tell us how to protect ourselves from them. It's up to the people paying the bill to decide if there is ample risk of boogey men to justify the expense of protecting themselves. One of the "experts" pointed out in the article that they had already done a risk assessment and it just didn't pan out to do much of anything about GA. I don't think GA has much to worry about at this point but we do need to remain on our guard. This came from Henry Kissenger: Henry Kissinger gave an address to the Bilderberger organization meeting at Evian, France, on May 21, 1991. As transcribed from a tape recording made by one of the Swiss delegates, he said: "Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will willingly be relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by their world government." I'm not a conspiracy theorist but... tell me Washington guys: are there black helicopters flying around DC? Don't let them use this as "the threat." Demand your freedoms! Jamie Painter wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" Alright Guys/Gals: It's that time of the week again! Apparently Ms. Karen Schaler at the Boston Globe needed something to write about this week so she decided to harp on GA and how dangerous it all is and of course how "there's now screening of passengers or baggage required". This one will make you laugh out loud, then it will make you afraid. No, not afraid of terrorists but of the flagrant disregard and lack of professionalism exhibited by such 'journalists'. There is not one opposing view in this article -- not one. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/26/analysts_warn_of_small_plane_terrorism_threat/ - Jamie do not archive -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:44 PM PST US From: plaurence@the-beach.net Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: plaurence@the-beach.net Come ya'all. nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about building airplanes. And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space . DO NOT ARCHIVE! Peter Laurence On 26 Aug 2004 at 19:11, Richard Bibb wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Bibb" > > > > Come on. It's the Boston Globe. Fit for fish wrap and hampster > > cage > lining. > > > The problemis it gets picked up and repeated over and over. The WTOP > radio > piece was because they read the Globe thing, saw a good (as in > sensational) item to report on, called the "expert" and he was more > than willing to fill the drive time airways around the nations capital > with this drivel letting literally several million commuters hear this > crap and be scared about little planes. You know its crap, I know its > crap, but some innocent out there is now thinking they better ban > those little planes from coming anywhere near a stadium lest 90,000 > God fearing NFL fans be put at risk. Unfortunately the logical > argument against this sort of thing gets lost in the shuffle, sort of > like the correction to the story where you are accused of beating your > wife gets put on page 24 in fine print. The "damage" has already been > done. > > I'm not try9ing to be alarmist but to approriate those immortal words > for a new application - "Houston, we ahve a problem..." > > > advertising on the Matronics Forums. > http://www.matronics.com/chat > ==== > > > > ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:21 PM PST US From: "Jim Cimino" Subject: RV-List: Lyle Hefel --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" Does anyone know how to get in touch with Lyle Hefel? A good friend of mine is interested in buying an -8 and heard he might be willing to sell his. He called Lyle's phone number and left a few messages for him, but has not heard back. If anyone can help, I would sure appreciate it. James Cimino RV-8 SN 80039 100+ Hours 570-842-4057 http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:12 PM PST US From: plaurence@the-beach.net Subject: RV-List: Cad 3 view --> RV-List message posted by: plaurence@the-beach.net Can anyone point me to a cad 3 view drawing of a RV9A? Thanks peter ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:09 PM PST US From: Elrod3794@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Temporary hangar space in Birmingham --> RV-List message posted by: Elrod3794@aol.com Doug I have space in my hanger at Bessemer (eky)call me. mike at 205 3691103 or Bob at 205 5414103 m. elrod ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:41 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Lyle Hefel --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" Lyle is building a new house and is quite busy. You might try rvbuilder@dubuque.net Cy Galley Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Cimino" Subject: RV-List: Lyle Hefel > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" > > Does anyone know how to get in touch with Lyle Hefel? A good friend of mine is interested in buying an -8 and heard he might be willing to sell his. He called Lyle's phone number and left a few messages for him, but has not heard back. If anyone can help, I would sure appreciate it. > James Cimino > RV-8 SN 80039 > 100+ Hours > 570-842-4057 > http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 07:27:43 PM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" >nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about building >airplanes. >And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space I do hope you're joking, because this is highly relevant to everything to do with an RV. Here's something else for the discussion - flying is as much a right as gun ownership, or being able to live in the state of your choice. You misguided, flying is a "privilege", pro-centralized government folks put that in your pipe and smoke it! But these are the same people who think the Constitution is a "living" document and history is fluid. The authoritarians, with no opposition from apathetic sheeple in this country, are conspiring to steal all our freedoms. Example - the federal police agencies (Secret Service, etc.) are best able to assure the safety of the citizens *with NO planes flying*, particularly the extravagent little gas-guzzlers being flown by rich people. They have nothing to gain by letting us fly, and their jobs to loose if anything remotely "terroristic" *could* happen. It's going to get much worse before, if ever, getting better. The same Utopians who believe the little planes of GA offer far too much personal mobility/freedom, with not nearly enough government control. The same liberal media who want's to *destroy one groups liberties* or enable other's deaths for fear of *offending* a minority group. The same group more concerned about the activities in the Abu Ghrab prison than what will happen if one of the members of the Religion of Peace sets off a Coke can dirty bomb in a Manhattan subway station. Join AOPA - they're the only one's even remotely active or effective in fighting the ignorant, lazy efforts of the government weasels and the weak-minded, agenda-driven mass media. They give me a bit of hope. do not archive Bryan Jones ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:27 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/2004 3:23:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, RV8ter@aol.com writes: Folks that read that pathetic excuse of a news paper have long since given up their common sense and that rag merely reflects their liberal stupidity. ===================================== Unfortunately the liberals have no monopoly on stupidity. Just choose your subject matter (religion, sex, violence, guns,energy, immigration, drugs, corporate finance, etc.) and there is certainly stupidity aplenty across the board. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs) ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:02 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: RV-List: knock it off --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" How many types of messages do we see posted on the RV-List? WHICH TYPE DOESN'T BELONG ON THIS LIST? 1. Building Questions 2. Answers to Building Questions 3. First Flights 4. Congratulations to First Flights 5. Flight Questions 6. Answers to Flight Questions 7. Insurance Questions 8. Answers to Insurance Questions 9. Flying Stories 10. Anybody know where Mr. X is? 11. Answer to where Mr. X is 12. Where can I get a radio, GPS, transponder, etc. ? 13. Answer to where to get . is 14. Reports on Attacks on General Aviation 15. Replies to Attacks . 16. RV-List Self Appointed Cops with "Knock IT OFF" messages 17. Anybody going an Air Show and have an empty seat? 18. Replies to request 19. Anyway want to give a newbie a RV ride 20. Replies to request 21. Matt - The Real RV-List Administrator - "Knock it off "messages 22. Matt - It is time to pony up some money so Matt can keep these Lists going 23. Matt - List guide line Messages about once a month 24. Matt - Email address messages (don't reply or you will be dropped) 25. Matt - Any damn thing he wants 26. Pure B_LL SH_T, like this, to make the RV-List Cops go crazy - Have a nice day please do not archive this drivel Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html PS - Answer to question is 16 and of course 26 Sorry Matt, but there are times when I can't control myself. ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:27 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: GA Scare Piece --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > > > >nough of this useless bandwidth. Let's all keep the subject about >building > >airplanes. > >And if you insist, at least don't take up Matt's drive space > >I do hope you're joking, because this is highly relevant to everything to >do >with an RV. Here's something else for the discussion - flying is as much a >right as gun ownership, or being able to live in the state of your choice. >You misguided, flying is a "privilege", pro-centralized government folks >put >that in your pipe and smoke it! But these are the same people who think >the >Constitution is a "living" document and history is fluid. > >The authoritarians, with no opposition from apathetic sheeple in this >country, are conspiring to steal all our freedoms. Example - the federal >police agencies (Secret Service, etc.) are best able to assure the safety >of >the citizens *with NO planes flying*, particularly the extravagent little >gas-guzzlers being flown by rich people. They have nothing to gain by >letting us fly, and their jobs to loose if anything remotely "terroristic" >*could* happen. It's going to get much worse before, if ever, getting >better. > >The same Utopians who believe the little planes of GA offer far too much >personal mobility/freedom, with not nearly enough government control. The >same liberal media who want's to *destroy one groups liberties* or enable >other's deaths for fear of *offending* a minority group. The same group >more concerned about the activities in the Abu Ghrab prison than what will >happen if one of the members of the Religion of Peace sets off a Coke can >dirty bomb in a Manhattan subway station. > >Join AOPA - they're the only one's even remotely active or effective in >fighting the ignorant, lazy efforts of the government weasels and the >weak-minded, agenda-driven mass media. They give me a bit of hope. > >do not archive > >Bryan Jones Amen, Brutha Jones! Tell it like it is. Couldn't do better myself. Brian Denk (we Bry/Brian guys gotta stick together) RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 Ghenghis Khan conservative corps charter member. do not archive, of course. Oh wait, we already didn't. Nevermind. :) ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 08:55:56 PM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: Re: RV-List: Lyle Hefel --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >Lyle is building a new house and is quite busy. You might try >rvbuilder@dubuque.net > >Cy Galley >Safety Programs Editor >Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot I can just see it now. It'll win a home design award and show up on the cover of "Better Homes and Gardens". Then, he'll sell it, and build several more. Each one better than the last. The guy amazes me! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 Kneels at the altar of Sir Hefel's artistry in metal. do not archive ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:31 PM PST US From: BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks) Subject: RV-List: First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks) After 10+ years of construction RV-6 Ser. 22935 N164CB flew from MQY in Smyrna TN today. It may not look like much, but at least it doesn't fly too bad. Both wings are heavy, and you have to hold right rudder going up and left rudder coming down :-) The planes not bent, and my pants are still dry so I consider the flight a success. Chris Brooks DNA ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:03 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen Congratulations! do not archive Chris Brooks wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: BrooksRV6@webtv.net (Chris Brooks) After 10+ years of construction RV-6 Ser. 22935 N164CB flew from MQY in Smyrna TN today. It may not look like much, but at least it doesn't fly too bad. Both wings are heavy, and you have to hold right rudder going up and left rudder coming down :-) The planes not bent, and my pants are still dry so I consider the flight a success. Chris Brooks DNA -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington