Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:03 AM - Re: >Re:Vortex generators (Bob 1)
2. 04:15 AM - Re: RV nose tire mounting (Jerry Springer)
3. 05:12 AM - Re: First Flight (Charles Rowbotham)
4. 05:48 AM - Re: First Flight (Dan DeNeal)
5. 05:53 AM - Re: Electrical wire labeling (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
6. 06:06 AM - Re: Van's new RV-10 (RV_8 Pilot)
7. 06:30 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
8. 06:32 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Jim Sears)
10. 07:05 AM - RV 7 Wings Kit for Sale (Clinchy, Dave)
11. 07:40 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Pat Hatch)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
13. 08:27 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Rob Prior)
14. 08:55 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
15. 09:10 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Chuck Weyant)
16. 09:27 AM - RV Ride in NW Houston? (Dan Checkoway)
17. 09:28 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (RV_8 Pilot)
18. 11:25 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Kathleen (rv7))
19. 11:45 AM - tire stuff...... Getting stuborn tire off of rim...use your dremmel (Philip Condon)
20. 12:40 PM - Re: Van's new RV-10 (Randy Lervold)
21. 12:41 PM - Van's Homecoming (JusCash@aol.com)
22. 01:13 PM - Re: RV Ride in NW Houston? (Greg Young)
23. 01:34 PM - Re: Electrical wire labeling (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
24. 02:41 PM - scary alternator (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
25. 02:50 PM - Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings (Jim Thorne)
26. 02:53 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (linn walters)
27. 04:08 PM - Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings (Charlie Kuss)
28. 04:17 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Dana Overall)
29. 04:35 PM - The Chairborne Division (Austin)
30. 04:44 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (ed)
31. 05:04 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (frank goggio)
32. 05:29 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Alex Peterson)
33. 05:35 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Stein Bruch)
34. 06:36 PM - -8 IO-360 throttle body & mix cable firewall penetrations, lengths ?? (Jack Blomgren)
35. 06:49 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
36. 07:17 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (linn walters)
37. 07:30 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (Scott Vanartsdalen)
38. 07:41 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (Jerry Springer)
39. 07:57 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (H.Ivan Haecker)
40. 07:59 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (Jim Jewell)
41. 08:49 PM - Re: Van's Homecoming (Vanremog@aol.com)
42. 09:27 PM - Re: The Chairborne Division (rv6tc)
43. 11:29 PM - Re: Van's Homecoming (JusCash@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: >RE:Vortex generators |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
> Vortex Generators on RV-4
> Bob Olds , RV-4
> oldsfolks@aol.com
> Vortex Generators on Rv-4
> This photo shows the positioning as done per instructions .
==============================================
AFAIK....
Photos are stripped from any message sent to this list.
Bob
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV nose tire mounting |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir@easystreet.com>
>
>Thanks to all for the wisdom on tire mounting. Sam and the rest of the RV
>world who appreciate me getting all the out-of-tolerance parts, you're
>welcome! This airplane will fly in spite of it though (assuming hurricane
>Frances doesn't get my hangar this weekend);-) Jerry relax, I know its not
>Vans fault, hell he didn't even make the parts. Sometimes ya just gotta
>vent a little (heck you didn't even get some of the prepunch parts that us
>later builders were privy to so you must had an even more exciting time
>putting yours together). And..as I said, I've been privileged to know THE
>MAN and his company and to say I respect and admire him is a gross
>understatement. As long as I have a great group of folks like you willing
>to share their RV experience, I WILL FINISH THIS PLANE. Thanks again folks.
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>
>RV-6A N197DM
>
>Not whining tonight
>
>
>
Dean, I am relaxed, it is watching all of you up tight guys that is kind
of amusing. :-)
Jerry
do not archive
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Jim,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE -- AGAIN !!!!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:23:25 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev@olypen.com>
>
>I am officially a 3-peat offender. My RV-7A took to the air for the first
>time today. This is my third RV and the best by far. Performance was
>awesome. It is powered by a Superior XP360 with a Hartzell C/S prop. It
>has an all glass cockpit including a Blue Mountain EFIS One, Dynon EFIS,
>and CNX80. I look forward to lots of cross country flying. Thanks to all
>on the list who posted answers to my questions. Even though this was my
>4th project, I still found the list helpful. Keep pounding those rivets.
>The RV grin is worth the effort.
>
>Jim Cone
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot@yahoo.com>
Congratulations!! I can still remember my first ride in your first RV!
Send pictures.
Dan DeNeal
rv6a N256GD
Jim & Bev Cone <jimnbev@olypen.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone"
I am officially a 3-peat offender. My RV-7A took to the air for the first time
today. This is my third RV and the best by far. Performance was awesome. It is
powered by a Superior XP360 with a Hartzell C/S prop. It has an all glass cockpit
including a Blue Mountain EFIS One, Dynon EFIS, and CNX80. I look forward
to lots of cross country flying. Thanks to all on the list who posted answers
to my questions. Even though this was my 4th project, I still found the list
helpful. Keep pounding those rivets. The RV grin is worth the effort.
Jim Cone
Message 5
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| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Oh very interesting here Bob.
I have tried 3 of these things and on the ones I have tried, as soon as
you apply the heat to it, it turn into a solid black strip.
Im gonna poke around for one of those. I used these labels like this all
over the 6 and folding them over themselves on the sticky did not last.
I remember flying one day with my mom, who has only flown with me once.
One of those labels fell off from behind the instrument panel onto her
foot while we were tooling along. She said "is that bad"? Answer;
"Probably be ok Mom. I used better glue on the engine":) They do not
stand up to the heat.
Last night I tried printing some labels (just lines of text on regular
paper and cutting them out) and inserting them into heatshrink. I tried
regular paper, photo paper, colors, and so forth. My conclusion on this
was I like the photo paper because it is a stiff paper that when the
letter strip is cut out, on an Arial 8 font (tried 4-14), cut right up
to the letters, the stiffness holds up nicely to the heat and when the
shrink shrinks, the stiffness of the paper makes it an easier read.
That's the good news. The bad news is I like to make labels on the fly
in a quick easy method, like the little label printers, and I don't have
the time to run up stairs and deal with making a couple of strips on
paper.
I also tried some color heatshrink, wrote on it with a sharpie, and
shrunk it. This was the fastest and simplest of all, although my writing
sucks. There is zero chance of getting Michelle to come down to the
basement to write for me when I need it.
So, Im gonna try the brother pt-1750 if I can hunt one down in the
office. I like these strips and if it works like you say it does, then I
am in business. Plan B is to write on yellow shrink.
Thanks to all that replied.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N67BT@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
--> RV-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes
<<Do you know of a non-thermal label printer that kicks out little
strips?
Michael Stewart>>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat
shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape
adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place.
I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's
under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do
a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
==
==
==
==
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Beautiful plane! I would be suprised if he did, but I believe Van could
certify that plane and smear (4 place) Cirrus, Piper & Cessna combined all
off the map! And his paint schemes are still improving as well.
2 cents
Bryan
do not archive
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
>Van's new RV-10
>
>http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/220RV_lg.jpg
>
>Jerry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Scott, I don't believe that I said an annual would "do away with that liability"
as you indicated. But, having an annual done by an independant person as the
pre-buy is the best possible thing that you can have in your possession if there
were a liability to arise after the sale of your homebuilt. You are correct
that no company is intentionally now, nor is likely to ever offer coverage
to protect a homebuilder for their liability as the assembler of the airplane.
There are distinctly seperate liabilities for the manufacturer of the kit and for the assembler of the plane. There is a pretty good article that can assist those of you interested here http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. Obviously, if the parts you receive from Van (or parts from other vendors that he recommends) fail after proper installation and during normal use and cause the accident, then that would be a potential liability for Van. If you installed a part not recommended in the plans, left something out, installed something improperly, etc. then that is a liability for you, the assembler. (you can call yourself the manufacturer... that's fine with me, but am attempting to help seperate the two in your minds for purposes of this discussion and future ones on this topic.)
My first point is that coverage is offered on two types of policies currently out
there. My second point is that the language on those policies doesn't specifically
exclude coverage for the assembler. I would stake my job that the first
time that is contested in court the companies which have that language on
their policies are going to exclude experimentals with respect to that section
of their policy very shortly after that. The intent of that language on their
policy is to protect the owner of a plane (any plane, homebuilt or certified)
from his liability immediately following the sale of the plane which he has
had care, custody, and control of. For example, the new owner crashes and dies
on the way home with the new plane due to sudden engine stoppage because you
haven't changed the oil in the last 100 hours. That person's estate could sue
you as the former maintainer of that plane. That is the intent of that language,
not to offer products liability to you as the assembler.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Smcm75@aol.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
In a message dated 8/30/04 6:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jhelms@i1.net
writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> There are two company which offer that coverage, but that coverage was
> designed for the liability you incur from owning/maintaining the plane, not
> building it. The first person to be sued and try to recover $ under one of
those
> provisions is going to likely have to fight for it in court and then those
> companies will quickly reword their policies to specifically exclude that
> coverage.
>
> I'd recommend that you have an annual done on the plane as the pre-buy.
> That way you have an independant person stating that the plane was airworthy
at
> the time of sale. You're always going to be 'on the hook' as the assembler
> of the plane, but if you didn't stray from the plans there is little liability
> there. If you modified a bunch of things (or anything) there is some
> liability you've assumed as the engineer/manufacturer of that part.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
>
As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is not
the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going to
do
away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product liability
coverage you as a builder.
Scott Morrow
N548SM RV-6A
28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell them.
In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish it. For
example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another, and the
engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people who could sue
you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure to risk, but
no less.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: ed
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of you.
I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is
>not
>the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
>product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going
>to do
>away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
>liability
>coverage you as a builder.
>
>Scott Morrow
>N548SM RV-6A
>28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Sears <sears@searnet.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | RV 7 Wings Kit for Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd@losrios.edu>
Hi All,
A friend is selling his RV 7 wings kit. They are still in the crate in
northern California. He wants $5,000. His email is staart@volcano.net
Dave Clinchy
7 wiring
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
JT
Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost afraid
to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
your opinion might be.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I don't write anything but aviation policies, so take this with a grain of salt.
However, I do get asked by customers often about aviation coverage under their
Umbrella policies that they get elsewhere. In my experience, most umbrella's
exclude coverage for aviation unless it's specifically included. Or, they
will only cover a schedule of items (i.e. boat, list of cars and real estate
holdings, etc.) So, in either of those cases, you'd have to inform the carrier
you want that added. If they will add the plane, then they'd likely charge
you extra for that. They might not want to cover it.
Another thing to watch for and keep in mind is that often, your umbrella coverage
may not 'kick in' unless the insurance policy on the item in question has a
certain limit of liability on it (normally at least $1 Million with no passenger
sublimit). That type of limit isn't available thru any company on a homebuilt.
The VanGuard Program does offer (if you desire, and pay for it) the highest
liability limit available on any homebuilt that I'm aware of currently (1
Million limited to $200,000 per passenger).
The carrier providing the umbrella coverage is normally concerned with there being
a gap between what the underlying policy will pay and when there coverage
kicks in.
You might also read the umbrella policy to see what type of exclusions it has.
It could (for example) have an exclusion for product liability, or liability
coverage for something which you build/assemble.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Hatch
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
JT
Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost afraid
to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
your opinion might be.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 6:26 01/09/2004 "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
> For example, the new owner crashes
> and dies on the way home with the new plane due to sudden engine
> stoppage because you haven't changed the oil in the last 100 hours.
> That person's estate could sue you as the former maintainer of that
> plane. That is the intent of that language, not to offer products
> liability to you as the ! assembler.
Whoa, wait a minute, I think that's a particularly bad example... Isn't the
pilot of an aircraft responsible for verifying the suitability of that
aircraft for flight (at least inasmuch as it is reasonable for him/her to
do so) before taking off? Checking the log would be a trivial way to
determine when the aircraft's last oil change was, if the pilot then
decides to fly knowing the last change was 100 hours ago, that's hardly the
fault of the previous owner.
Although in our litigation-happy society it wouldn't be impossible for
someone's estate to sue anyway, I suppose. It just wouldn't be a very
strong case.
Rob
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
We could spend all day on hypotheticals. My point is that the heirs of the new
owner is going to assume (whether right or not) that that pilot/owner was perfect
and not at fault, and that the cause of the crash was anything other than
pilot error. And the maintenance provided by the previous owner is a likely
target. (i.e. you could have pencil whipped the oil changes, etc.)
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Prior
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 6:26 01/09/2004 "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
> For example, the new owner crashes
> and dies on the way home with the new plane due to sudden engine
> stoppage because you haven't changed the oil in the last 100 hours.
> That person's estate could sue you as the former maintainer of that
> plane. That is the intent of that language, not to offer products
> liability to you as the ! assembler.
Whoa, wait a minute, I think that's a particularly bad example... Isn't the
pilot of an aircraft responsible for verifying the suitability of that
aircraft for flight (at least inasmuch as it is reasonable for him/her to
do so) before taking off? Checking the log would be a trivial way to
determine when the aircraft's last oil change was, if the pilot then
decides to fly knowing the last change was 100 hours ago, that's hardly the
fault of the previous owner.
Although in our litigation-happy society it wouldn't be impossible for
someone's estate to sue anyway, I suppose. It just wouldn't be a very
strong case.
Rob
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
I'll probably get some flack for this, (so sue me) but I believe the only
answer is a need to reform our tort system. To get started, stop voting for
public office any member of the Bar. It's a gross conflict of interest.
This country is being held hostage by attorneys.
Chuck
RV9A (out of the paint shop this week!!!)
----- Original Message ----- >
> Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
> see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost
afraid
> to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
> your opinion might be.
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | RV Ride in NW Houston? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
A friend of mine is looking for his first ride in an RV. He lives in
northwest Houston and flies out of Weiser (EYQ). His name is Daryl
Tolliver, and I've copied him on this email (daryl.tolliver@pinnstrat.com).
If anybody is able to give him an RV grin, I'm sure Daryl would be very
grateful!
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
In my limited experience, this is a very reasonable example of what might
happen leading to a lawsuit. It's happened many times - aircraft runs out
of fuel - sue Champion Spark Plugs, runs into cloud embedded cumulo-granite
- sue the radio manufacturer, pilot looses control due to partial instrument
failure - sue the vacuum pump, aircraft *and* engine manufacturer, etc, etc.
How much was the judgement against Parker-Hannafin in the Carnahan pilot
error crash?! $4 MILLION DOLLARS... and the official cause of the crash
was:
"... pilot's failure to control the airplane while maneuvering because of
spatial disorientation..."
And how about the airframe and engine manufacturers...
" The Carnahan family settled lawsuits against several other
defendants......$1.6 million settlement with Cessna Aircraft ...Textron
[Lycoming] of Rhode Island, agreed to pay $800,000..." So who was to
blame?!?! PH, Cessna, Lycoming?
Another case of trial lawyers gone wild, IMVHO.
Bryan
> > For example, the new owner crashes
> > and dies on the way home with the new plane due to sudden engine
> > stoppage because you haven't changed the oil in the last 100 hours.
> > That person's estate could sue you as the former maintainer of that
> > plane. That is the intent of that language, not to offer products
> > liability to you as the ! assembler.
>
>Whoa, wait a minute, I think that's a particularly bad example... Isn't the
>pilot of an aircraft responsible for verifying the suitability of that
>aircraft for flight (at least inasmuch as it is reasonable for him/her to
>do so) before taking off? Checking the log would be a trivial way to
>determine when the aircraft's last oil change was, if the pilot then
>decides to fly knowing the last change was 100 hours ago, that's hardly the
>fault of the previous owner.
>
>Although in our litigation-happy society it wouldn't be impossible for
>someone's estate to sue anyway, I suppose. It just wouldn't be a very
>strong case.
>
>Rob
>
>do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen@rv7.us>
Has anyone given thought to making an LLC the builder of the aircraft for
the explicit purpose of effecting a liable institution? Of course one could
attempt to penetrate the veil of the corporation, but it is a significant
layer of protection. I don't know how you would deal with the A&P thing in
that situation.
It's probably easier and safer than tort reform :)
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
>
>do not archive
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 19
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| Subject: | tire stuff...... Getting stuborn tire off of rim...use your |
dremmel
--> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
To get a tire off the rim I had to resort to cutting the bead cord (steel
cable imbedded in the rubber tire bead) with a dremmle cutter. Took 10
seconds to do. I wedged a piece of stainless sheet scrap between the cord
and aluminum rim and dremmeled(cut) with the FG cutter carefully until the
cord bead was cut. It took more time to write this up then for me to get the
tire off. Maybe this trick will help.....
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Van's new RV-10 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
That's a very Lancair-esque paint scheme, wonder if it was intended that
way. Let's see, Lancair IV with all the trimmings about $400k, RV-10 with
all the trimmings maybe $150k?
Randy Lervold
> Beautiful plane! I would be suprised if he did, but I believe Van could
> certify that plane and smear (4 place) Cirrus, Piper & Cessna combined all
> off the map! And his paint schemes are still improving as well.
>
> 2 cents
>
> Bryan
>
> do not archive
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
> >
> >Van's new RV-10
> >
> >http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/220RV_lg.jpg
> >
> >Jerry
Message 21
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| Subject: | Van's Homecoming |
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
It looks like the weather is going to be pretty good for the trip to Van's
Homecoming. I plan to leave early Saturday morning. Is anyone else from So-Cal
and Nor-Cal planing on going.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 Hayward, Ca
Message 22
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| Subject: | RV Ride in NW Houston? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Dan, if he doesn't get a direct response I'd suggest he come out to Hooks
(DWH) about 10:30 any Saturday. The hangar behind Hi-Tech Aviation at
mid-field is the normal staging point for the lunch mission. He can also
join the Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HoustonRVBuilders/ which
is for local RV builders, flyers and wannabees. If he posts there he's
certain to get a response. We try to meet once a month and Weiser is one of
the places we gravitate to because of Carl's BBQ.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> Subject: RV-List: RV Ride in NW Houston?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> A friend of mine is looking for his first ride in an RV. He
> lives in northwest Houston and flies out of Weiser (EYQ).
> His name is Daryl Tolliver, and I've copied him on this email
> (daryl.tolliver@pinnstrat.com).
> If anybody is able to give him an RV grin, I'm sure Daryl
> would be very grateful!
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
Message 23
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| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
OK here is an update.
The Brother 1750 actually does not turn black when heat is applied. I
found one at work and tried it. In fact, it melts first when direct
torch heat is applied. This is perfect and is now plan A. I tried 2
others and one did, and one did not turn black.
I did experiment and there is a difference between the models that use
laminated tape, and those that don't. Laminated works, non-laminated
turns black when heated.
Mission accomplished.
Thanks team,
Mike Stewart
I now have a cheap way to quickly label wires.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart,
Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RE: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
Oh very interesting here Bob.
I have tried 3 of these things and on the ones I have tried, as soon as
you apply the heat to it, it turn into a solid black strip.
Im gonna poke around for one of those. I used these labels like this all
over the 6 and folding them over themselves on the sticky did not last.
I remember flying one day with my mom, who has only flown with me once.
One of those labels fell off from behind the instrument panel onto her
foot while we were tooling along. She said "is that bad"? Answer;
"Probably be ok Mom. I used better glue on the engine":) They do not
stand up to the heat.
Last night I tried printing some labels (just lines of text on regular
paper and cutting them out) and inserting them into heatshrink. I tried
regular paper, photo paper, colors, and so forth. My conclusion on this
was I like the photo paper because it is a stiff paper that when the
letter strip is cut out, on an Arial 8 font (tried 4-14), cut right up
to the letters, the stiffness holds up nicely to the heat and when the
shrink shrinks, the stiffness of the paper makes it an easier read.
That's the good news. The bad news is I like to make labels on the fly
in a quick easy method, like the little label printers, and I don't have
the time to run up stairs and deal with making a couple of strips on
paper.
I also tried some color heatshrink, wrote on it with a sharpie, and
shrunk it. This was the fastest and simplest of all, although my writing
sucks. There is zero chance of getting Michelle to come down to the
basement to write for me when I need it.
So, Im gonna try the brother pt-1750 if I can hunt one down in the
office. I like these strips and if it works like you say it does, then I
am in business. Plan B is to write on yellow shrink.
Thanks to all that replied.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N67BT@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
--> RV-List message posted by: N67BT@aol.com
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes
<<Do you know of a non-thermal label printer that kicks out little
strips?
Michael Stewart>>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat
shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape
adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place.
I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's
under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do
a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
==
Message 24
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| Subject: | scary alternator |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
On a trip home from Santa Fe on Sunday I noticed at start-up a continous
static popping sound through the head sets, and also that the volt meter was
reading about 1/2 volt lower than usual and slowly declining about 1/10th of
a volt per 15 minutes. I turned off everything but the radio and the
Lightspeed and figured in the remaining hour of flight, losing another 1/2
volt won't be a problem. Then, about 20 minutes from home the static
stopped and the battery depletion accelerated. I got home with about 11
volts in the battery. Not a big deal, but it was definitely time to take a
look at the alternator and its wiring.
When I pulled the cowl, I was not at all happy with what I saw. On this
automotive (Motorcraft) alternator with about 70 hours on it, one of three
of the long bolts that hold the halves together was gone and the other two
were finger loose. The stud that holds a noise filter was also missing and
the filter was hanging by its wire. The alternator mounting was nice and
tight, as was the belt. The piece of crap just shook itself apart from
normal use.
Anybody with an automotive alternator needs to check their's and find some
way to safety those 3 long pins, at least with loctite. Or better yet, do
what I did, throw the thing in the trash, call B&C Electric and buy a real
one; especially if your running an electronic ignition which needs a healthy
battery to keep the fan turning.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
Message 25
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| Subject: | Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
Is there a capacitance fuel sender that can be used in the 7A-QB wing? The Van's
accessories catalog indicates that "the capacitive system is not available
on QB models" I'm assuming this is because the probe must run the width of the
tank and one would have had to drill the baffles to accomplish this during construction
of the tanks. ACS carries a couple but I can't tell if they would work
from the catalog description. The archives have a lot on these senders but
not the answer to my question.
Jim Thorne
7A-QB CHD
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
John Helms wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
>
>I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell them.
In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish it.
For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another, and the
engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people who could
sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure to risk, but
no less.
>
>JT
>
You could surrender the airworthiness certificate, remove tn "N" number
and sell it as junk. The buyer would have to get a new number and get
it inspected to get a new airworthiness inspector. I know of two
aircraft that had their airworthiness certificate surrendered and then
they were donated to a worthy cause. They were purchased as is, had a
new number assigned and inspected for a new airworthiness certificate
..... and they got the builder certificate in the process. Not legal
.... but it worked!!!
Linn
do not archive
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Jim
You can still install Vans senders in you QB fuel tanks. However, it will
require a bit of surgery to the rear baffle. You'll need to cut 2 access
holes in the rear baffle. One in the 2nd bay and the other in the 2nd most
outboard bay. After installation, make two access covers and seal them up.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a@cox.net>
>
>Is there a capacitance fuel sender that can be used in the 7A-QB
>wing? The Van's accessories catalog indicates that "the capacitive system
>is not available on QB models" I'm assuming this is because the probe must
>run the width of the tank and one would have had to drill the baffles to
>accomplish this during construction of the tanks. ACS carries a couple but
>I can't tell if they would work from the catalog description. The
>archives have a lot on these senders but not the answer to my question.
>
>Jim Thorne
>7A-QB CHD
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
I'm not going to go any furthur into this discussion other than to say have
your legal advisor look into an exculpatory agreement. Helps a little. No
more said on my part.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 29
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| Subject: | The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
also, do not archive
The following is not a flying story.....rather,
it is a NON flying story.
I no longer own, nor see, nor will I ever see, the only beautiful thing I have
ever created....my Candy Apple and White RV6A.
This came about for no one single reason, but instead, for a number of reasons
which, at my age, became inevitable.
I have been chairborne for only 2 months and I cannot stand to look
at all the tools and old drawings and know that I will likely not take them up
again, but I do need to fly, and have been looking at ways to resolve that .
I drive out to old airfields to look at the tiedowns there, though not
a soul appears and there is just me and the tall grass bending like waves in
the wind....and the quiet.
I saw an old airplane which bore the markings I recognized and realized that I
flew that airplane before I was married and any kids, now nearing 40 were born.
They are asking 10 times what that airplane cost new.
Such is the way of airplanes....some are without age, unlike us who power them
aloft.
From where I sit now, with a grand view of the mountain range, still capped with
snow, I compose my own flight forecast and see cloud, with blue breaks and good
vis and declare that a flight of 2 plus hours in an RV would be adviseable
and do-able and immensley gratifying......
But here I sit, at a keyboard, wishing I could just push open the hangar door and
see my racehorse ready to sprint.
And there is Jerry Springer, a man who invites invective, admiration, and at
least, discussion and participation while at this keyboard...
I have met Jerry's airplane many more times than I have met him for he is always
off mingling with good company.
One of lifes great pleasures is going to a flyin breakfast and just seeing all
the nice RVs that come in...if you dare leave the breakfast line.
RV guys are just good to hang out with and guys like Jerry who did it the hard
way are always good for pointers.
Sure, there are times when I have vowed to quit the list, but there is a gold
mine there for those who wish to dig....this mine was "salted " by all the old
guys who are now flying, and still lurk, hoping to read something which still
keeps the flame alive.
Jerry is not the only guy, and a stirling fellow he is...and a veteran, and
not just in the RV sense.
Many others whose names I no longer see have helped me, saved me grief and money,
and I hope they are still there or lurking.
Apart from the elevation to a select group of diehards who suffer the slings of
those who have never been driven by a mission to create something both beautiful
and unique in order to fly the dream, there is the knowing that we not only
created the instrument of flight, we also took the next step and took it airborne,
thereby stating our trust in our skill and our mission.
It does go bad sometimes, as witnessed by a news report that an old guy,
like me, test flew his Nieuport WW1 job, his dream of many years, and crashed
and burned, just like in the movies, and paid the ultimate gamble.
Guys do that sometimes.
How well I can see and replay my last flight, where headwinds and turbulence
made a 2 hour plus flight into 3 plus, where hard banking between the canyon
walls made map reading tough indeed and the river and railroad way down there
were the only true guide between a correct turn and a wrong one, and finally out
over the grass lands where groundspeed picked up to numbers to make you grin.
The old coach road is still visible and a house and livestock come and go in a
flash over a stand of pine forest.
I even see Bison grazing on reservation land.
Coming home is more of the same hard flying, with smoke of forest fires laying
a carpet of haze way off, and thunder showers making us take a longer course home.
After dancing through the granite walls, the welcome ocean appears and fast groundspeed
on the GPS as we descend.
Home base says that lightening strikes and thunder showers are south of the field
and strong gusts over the runway and some have diverted elsewhere, but the
strip is close and we land with a little bounce and the sky is dark and the air
very warm as the canopy slides open.
Wind in the hair blows the buzz in the head away some and one just has to grin
at the RV......what an adventure and not to be equaled in any but an RV !!
It is a very hollow, empty, feeling to go out to the field, punch in the combination
of the gate, and pull up in front of the hangar where your RV no longer
resides, waiting for the bark of the pipes, the checklist, the zoom out of the
circuit, and know that you really have no business here...you are just a tourist.
I ask about renting and it is not cheap, and the checkout they want is like
3 hours...this, after you have been flying a racehorse, and of course, you have
to book a week ahead to get a 172.......makes you long for the old days...RV
days.
Now that we "empty nesters" have downsized and do not have a shop space to
build, life is not as fulfilling as in the RV shop days, and I wish I could
just build a tail group to help somebody.
At least there is still some humour about as when I am at the counter of a
flight school and I ask how fast a Cherokee cruises and they say 110, and they
ask me about what I have flown lately and what does the RV cruise at....I say
180...they exclaim.." what ?? what ?? " with big eyes..
Like the old saw says...." you can take the man out of the RV, but you can't
take the RV out of the man " !!!
Anybody got an empty seat ?
L.A.T.
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
From: "ed \240" <ed_88@hotmai...
--> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
So where does one go to find a lawyer who knows about this stuff? The
idea of having an LLC build the plane sounds worth looking into.
>From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:17:32 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
>I'm not going to go any furthur into this discussion other than to say have
>your legal advisor look into an exculpatory agreement. Helps a little. No
>more said on my part.
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY i39
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
>do not archive
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "frank goggio" <fgoggio@nc.rr.com>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Has anyone given thought to making an LLC the builder of the
> aircraft for the explicit purpose of effecting a liable
> institution? Of course one could attempt to penetrate the
> veil of the corporation, but it is a significant layer of
> protection. I don't know how you would deal with the A&P
> thing in that situation.
>
> It's probably easier and safer than tort reform :)
>
>
> Kathleen Evans
Disclaimer (really), I'm not a lawyer...
The "protection" that a corporate veil provides won't help much in this
sort of case, as you would be the principal partner or officer, and it
was your actions (you built the plane) that were at "fault". The
corporate protective veil that is so often discussed really only
protects the "company" (the owners or officers) from things that its
non-principal employees might do. That said, the real targets of
lawsuits are those with something of value ($$$) to be claimed. So,
spend all your money and don't worry!
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 517 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Good Luck with the LLC....we'll need our Fed friends to jump in here, but
it's now my understanding that you actually have to have a "Single" person
apply and be named on the airworthiness certificate. As of early this year,
you can't even receive an airworthiness certificate with more than one
persons name on it.
How do I know?? I have an RV6 that I built 2 years ago with my friend and
we were both able to be listed as the mfgrs, et.al and the FAA was fine with
it.
Now, we built another RV6 and finished it this year. The FAA FSDO/MIDO
actually issued us an airworthiness certificate with both names on it, then
rescinded it a week later, making me get a new one with only ONE individuals
name on it.
I was told flatly that no more "partnerships" on the awc, but you can
register and fly it that way if you like. Just that an experimental MUST be
built by a single individual. This was not the case in years past. As the
owner of a small corporation, it's also my understanding that NO coproration
may "build" an experimental aircraft and receive an airworthiness
certificate for it. That being said, you can register it that way, but it
doesn't remove individual liability.
We're on a slippery slope here, and I believe the reason you can't have a
corporation manufacturing aircraft, is then you break the spirit of the
FAR's which require experimental aircraft to built for
educational....etc...purposes. Using a corporation would most likely
trigger the FAR23 rules and require a type certificate, etc..
There's already plenty of "rules" for us individual builders, and there are
a few "builders assistance" centers that are really pushing the envelope
here. Doesn't help that a new engine conversion company is advertising flat
out "Turn Key RV10's built to your spec's", and then they are dumb enough to
actually list the cost of the whole thing including their labor!!!!! I'm
not sure the FAA will be entirely happy about that.
Anyway, the fact is if you build it, there really is no concrete way to
fully and completely insulate yourself from the liability, short of removing
the airworthiness certificate and selling it as parts. The problem here is
that the next guy will have to try and get the thing re-certified......
I may be a little off on some of the above points, but then again it's just
my opinion.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of ed
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "ed " <ed_88@hotmail.com>
So where does one go to find a lawyer who knows about this stuff? The
idea of having an LLC build the plane sounds worth looking into.
>From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2004 19:17:32 -0400
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>
>I'm not going to go any furthur into this discussion other than to say have
>your legal advisor look into an exculpatory agreement. Helps a little. No
>more said on my part.
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY i39
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
>do not archive
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 34
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| Subject: | -8 IO-360 throttle body & mix cable firewall penetrations, lengths |
??
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet@hotmail.com>
8 builders, experts,
I've searched archives but don't see answers to my specific questions.
First, I'll appreciate your own firewall cable penetration locations, using
forward facing Airflow Performace throttle body (using Van's IO/mix cable
brackets), to Van's CT 82F throttle quadrent.. Also, please confirm (or
dispute) Van's catalog listed 60" cable lenghts as best fit for both cables
considering their paths, multiple radii, elevations. [60'' seem to measure
long to me] Your experience will give me a head start and the needed
confidence to press ahead. Thanks in advance.
Jack Blomgren, Minnesota RV Wing
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/01/2004 5:36:22 PM Central Standard Time,
austin@uniserve.com writes:
Like the old saw says...." you can take the man out of the RV, but you
can't take the RV out of the man " !!!
Anybody got an empty seat ?
If only Van could design a very special airplane for this very special pilot,
I'd gladly build it for him, and would have no shortage of help. Austin,
through your works, words and inspiration you will fly forever, and as long as
that new cockpit of yours can get to a keyboard, don't stop flying one. We all
owe you so very much!
Mark Phillips, new RV flyer and carrying on a great tradition thanks to so
many of you here!
do not archive
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Austin wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>
>Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
>also, do not archive
>
I was going to comment directly to Austin, becided to flood the list
with this one. I apologize in advance. I know a few 'Austin's .....
older friends I used to fly alongside ..... but they've sold their
airplanes or just keep them in the hangar ..... but they come to the
airport to 'hangar fly' with their friends. They fly with me though. I
hate flying with an empty seat ..... and seldom do. Austin didn't say
where he was (it wasn't FL, that's for sure!), but I hope he can hook up
with a group that likes to go look for food on the weekend mornings.
Our group is made up of folks that have a license and own an airplane
and folks that own an airplane but have no license (other pilots fly his
airplane)! Our passengers are people that don't have an airplane but
have a license, or are getting a license, or just like to go along for
the ride, having no license or airplane! We do have one thing in common
.... we love airplanes and where and how they take us. We would welcome
all the "Austin"s ..... until all the seats are filled. If there's
somebody looking for a seat ..... and they're all taken ..... I'll fly
the Traumahawk instead of my Pitts. Yep, I'd rather take the Pitts, but
I get a lot more pleasure sharing the flight. So, the point of all this
off-topic drivel is to remind everyone that if they have an empty seat
to invite those that are less forunate and let them savor the pleasures
that we all enjoy. Everyone will feel better much better after the bird
is tucked safely back in the hangar.
Linn
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Aw man! Somebody go take this gent flying. I have to go blow my nose and I think
I have something in my eye.
If you ever get to Oakdale (O27), we have an electric winch and harness especially
for getting chair-bound pilots into RVs. No kidding. We have a wheelchair
bound pilot who flies a 172 and a Bonanza but he never could get over the sides
of an RV. We fixed that. You should see his grin. He's thinking about an
RV-10 now.
Do not archive
Austin <austin@uniserve.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin"
Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
also, do not archive
The following is not a flying story.....rather, it is a NON flying story.
I no longer own, nor see, nor will I ever see, the only beautiful thing I have
ever created....my Candy Apple and White RV6A.
This came about for no one single reason, but instead, for a number of reasons
which, at my age, became inevitable.
I have been chairborne for only 2 months and I cannot stand to look at all the
tools and old drawings and know that I will likely not take them up again, but
I do need to fly, and have been looking at ways to resolve that .
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
Austin wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>
>Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
>also, do not archive
>
> The following is not a flying story.....rather,
it is a NON flying story.
>I no longer own, nor see, nor will I ever see, the only beautiful thing I have
ever created....my Candy Apple and White RV6A.
>This came about for no one single reason, but instead, for a number of reasons
which, at my age, became inevitable.
> I have been chairborne for only 2 months and I cannot stand to look
at all the tools and old drawings and know that I will likely not take them up
again, but I do need to fly, and have been looking at ways to resolve that .
> I drive out to old airfields to look at the tiedowns there, though not
a soul appears and there is just me and the tall grass bending like waves in
the wind....and the quiet.
>I saw an old airplane which bore the markings I recognized and realized that I
flew that airplane before I was married and any kids, now nearing 40 were born.
>They are asking 10 times what that airplane cost new.
>Such is the way of airplanes....some are without age, unlike us who power them
aloft.
>>From where I sit now, with a grand view of the mountain range, still capped with
snow, I compose my own flight forecast and see cloud, with blue breaks and
good vis and declare that a flight of 2 plus hours in an RV would be adviseable
and do-able and immensley gratifying......
>But here I sit, at a keyboard, wishing I could just push open the hangar door
and see my racehorse ready to sprint.
> And there is Jerry Springer, a man who invites invective, admiration, and at
least, discussion and participation while at this keyboard...
>I have met Jerry's airplane many more times than I have met him for he is always
off mingling with good company.
>One of lifes great pleasures is going to a flyin breakfast and just seeing all
the nice RVs that come in...if you dare leave the breakfast line.
>RV guys are just good to hang out with and guys like Jerry who did it the hard
way are always good for pointers.
> Sure, there are times when I have vowed to quit the list, but there is a gold
mine there for those who wish to dig....this mine was "salted " by all the
old guys who are now flying, and still lurk, hoping to read something which still
keeps the flame alive.
> Jerry is not the only guy, and a stirling fellow he is...and a veteran, and
not just in the RV sense.
> Many others whose names I no longer see have helped me, saved me grief and
money, and I hope they are still there or lurking.
>
>
Austin you are to kind, I have also enjoyed every visit we have had, my
only regret is that they were to few and far between.
I looked for you at Arlington this year but I was only able to stay
Thursday and Friday. I hope you were able to make it. I have
thought about the day that I would have to give up flying my old RV-6
and am not sure how it well effect me, I hope I can be as
graceful about it as you are despite how painful it must be. I know that
I have enjoyed every post you have made to this list
describing your adventures flying your RVs.
I will always have an empty seat for you if you should get down to my
neighborhood again as I am sure many other RVers would
also be happy to fly with you. Whatever you do Austin don't leave the
list, write some more of your great flying stories and post them here
and let the list cops be damned. :-)
Jerry
do not archive
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl@gvtc.com>
> Well, I have a story about what someone did to solve this dilemma a few
years ago. That someone's father had built a Sonerai and just prior to his
death made it clear he didn't want the plane sold so that his wife wouldn't
incur any liability. But someone hated to see the plane sitting idle and
didn't need it himself since he had an rv. So the N# was removed, the data
plate removed and the remaining "collection of parts" was sold for cash.
Everone was happy with the deal. So it can be done but I doubt it is legal.
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi there Wordsmith,
I don't yet have an empty seat to offer you Austin, If I ever get the chance
to offer an empty seat you can rest assured you are among the first on my
list. I hope to soon be able to fly down to Langley and invite you out for a
flight or two. Maybe in the coming year.
Jim in Kelowna B.C.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
Subject: RV-List: The Chairborne Division
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Austin" <austin@uniserve.com>
>
> Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
> also, do not archive
>
> The following is not a flying
story.....rather, it is a NON flying story.
> I no longer own, nor see, nor will I ever see, the only beautiful thing I
have ever created....my Candy Apple and White RV6A.
> This came about for no one single reason, but instead, for a number of
reasons which, at my age, became inevitable.
> I have been chairborne for only 2 months and I cannot stand to
look at all the tools and old drawings and know that I will likely not take
them up again, but I do need to fly, and have been looking at ways to
resolve that .
> I drive out to old airfields to look at the tiedowns there,
though not a soul appears and there is just me and the tall grass bending
like waves in the wind....and the quiet.
> I saw an old airplane which bore the markings I recognized and realized
that I flew that airplane before I was married and any kids, now nearing 40
were born.
> They are asking 10 times what that airplane cost new.
> Such is the way of airplanes....some are without age, unlike us who power
them aloft.
> From where I sit now, with a grand view of the mountain range, still
capped with snow, I compose my own flight forecast and see cloud, with blue
breaks and good vis and declare that a flight of 2 plus hours in an RV would
be adviseable and do-able and immensley gratifying......
> But here I sit, at a keyboard, wishing I could just push open the hangar
door and see my racehorse ready to sprint.
> And there is Jerry Springer, a man who invites invective, admiration,
and at least, discussion and participation while at this keyboard...
> I have met Jerry's airplane many more times than I have met him for he is
always off mingling with good company.
> One of lifes great pleasures is going to a flyin breakfast and just seeing
all the nice RVs that come in...if you dare leave the breakfast line.
> RV guys are just good to hang out with and guys like Jerry who did it the
hard way are always good for pointers.
> Sure, there are times when I have vowed to quit the list, but there is a
gold mine there for those who wish to dig....this mine was "salted " by all
the old guys who are now flying, and still lurk, hoping to read something
which still keeps the flame alive.
> Jerry is not the only guy, and a stirling fellow he is...and a
veteran, and not just in the RV sense.
> Many others whose names I no longer see have helped me, saved me grief
and money, and I hope they are still there or lurking.
> Apart from the elevation to a select group of diehards who suffer the
slings of those who have never been driven by a mission to create something
both beautiful and unique in order to fly the dream, there is the knowing
that we not only created the instrument of flight, we also took the next
step and took it airborne, thereby stating our trust in our skill and our
mission.
> It does go bad sometimes, as witnessed by a news report that an
old guy, like me, test flew his Nieuport WW1 job, his dream of many years,
and crashed and burned, just like in the movies, and paid the ultimate
gamble.
> Guys do that sometimes.
> How well I can see and replay my last flight, where headwinds and
turbulence made a 2 hour plus flight into 3 plus, where hard banking between
the canyon walls made map reading tough indeed and the river and railroad
way down there were the only true guide between a correct turn and a wrong
one, and finally out over the grass lands where groundspeed picked up to
numbers to make you grin.
> The old coach road is still visible and a house and livestock come and go
in a flash over a stand of pine forest.
> I even see Bison grazing on reservation land.
> Coming home is more of the same hard flying, with smoke of forest fires
laying a carpet of haze way off, and thunder showers making us take a longer
course home.
> After dancing through the granite walls, the welcome ocean appears and
fast groundspeed on the GPS as we descend.
> Home base says that lightening strikes and thunder showers are south of
the field and strong gusts over the runway and some have diverted elsewhere,
but the strip is close and we land with a little bounce and the sky is dark
and the air very warm as the canopy slides open.
> Wind in the hair blows the buzz in the head away some and one just has to
grin at the RV......what an adventure and not to be equaled in any but an RV
!!
> It is a very hollow, empty, feeling to go out to the field, punch in the
combination of the gate, and pull up in front of the hangar where your RV no
longer resides, waiting for the bark of the pipes, the checklist, the zoom
out of the circuit, and know that you really have no business here...you are
just a tourist.
> I ask about renting and it is not cheap, and the checkout they want
is like 3 hours...this, after you have been flying a racehorse, and of
course, you have to book a week ahead to get a 172.......makes you long for
the old days...RV days.
> Now that we "empty nesters" have downsized and do not have a shop
space to build, life is not as fulfilling as in the RV shop days, and I wish
I could just build a tail group to help somebody.
> At least there is still some humour about as when I am at the counter
of a flight school and I ask how fast a Cherokee cruises and they say 110,
and they ask me about what I have flown lately and what does the RV cruise
at....I say 180...they exclaim.." what ?? what ?? " with big eyes..
> Like the old saw says...." you can take the man out of the RV, but
you can't take the RV out of the man " !!!
> Anybody got an empty seat ?
>
> L.A.T.
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 9/1/2004 12:41:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JusCash@aol.com writes:
It looks like the weather is going to be pretty good for the trip to Van's
Homecoming. I plan to leave early Saturday morning. Is anyone else from
So-Cal
and Nor-Cal planing on going.
================================
Cash-
We'll call you in the air and see you there.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: The Chairborne Division |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Ditto. I echo the sentiments below and I'm sure the vast majority of folks
that have had the great pleasure of reading you posts feel the same way.
Keep the faith.
Keith
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
. I know that
> I have enjoyed every post you have made to this list
> describing your adventures flying your RVs.
> I will always have an empty seat for you if you should get down to my
> neighborhood again as I am sure many other RVers would
> also be happy to fly with you. Whatever you do Austin don't leave the
> list, write some more of your great flying stories and post them here
> and let the list cops be damned. :-)
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
--> RV-List message posted by: JusCash@aol.com
What frequency will you be on?
Cash
In a message dated 9/1/2004 8:51:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Vanremog@aol.com writes:
Cash-
We'll call you in the air and see you there.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
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