Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:42 AM - Re: LASAR installation question (John Huft)
2. 05:05 AM - Austin's "Mirror" (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
3. 05:47 AM - Re: Wire routing (Jeff Orear)
4. 06:28 AM - Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete at will (Doug Rozendaal)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
6. 07:20 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Bob 1)
7. 07:26 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Bob 1)
8. 07:32 AM - Re: wire gage, length, amp chart (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
9. 07:45 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Rob Prior)
10. 08:07 AM - Re: Bifocal Contact Lens (Hull, Don)
11. 08:22 AM - Re: Starter Woes (long) (Gary Zilik)
12. 08:29 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
13. 09:54 AM - Aluminum blade MT propeller for Lyconing 320 (LeastDrag93066@aol.com)
14. 10:17 AM - Stein...you win (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
15. 10:42 AM - Heat Muff over exhaust joint (Jack Blomgren)
16. 10:57 AM - construction videos (Steven DiNieri)
17. 11:11 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Rob Prior)
18. 11:30 AM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (John Helms)
19. 11:43 AM - Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete at (Charles Rowbotham)
20. 12:24 PM - (SportAV8R@aol.com)
21. 12:47 PM - Re: wire gage, length, amp chart (David Carter)
22. 02:39 PM - how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? (Gert)
23. 03:11 PM - Re: Heat Muff over exhaust joint (Alex Peterson)
24. 04:12 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (David)
25. 04:36 PM - Re: Liability when you sell an RV? (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
26. 04:54 PM - Re: Heat Muff over exhaust joint (RVer273sb@aol.com)
27. 07:05 PM - Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? (John Danielson)
28. 07:17 PM - >Re:how to feed the battery cable through the fir (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
29. 08:43 PM - cold air (Keith Hedrick OD)
30. 08:49 PM - Re: cold air (jammeter@comcast.net)
31. 09:06 PM - Re: cold air (Brian Denk)
32. 09:11 PM - Re: cold air (Harvey Sigmon)
33. 11:26 PM - plans for sale (cgalley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | LASAR installation question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Huft" <rv8@lazy8.net>
These are not the usual P-leads that will radiate EMI and need to be
shielded. They are just logic-level signals that talk to the brain box. The
green and blue wires that are supplied are fine, with toggles or key switch.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
PeterHunt1@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: LASAR installation question
--> RV-List message posted by: PeterHunt1@aol.com
A little help would be appreciated from those of you who have wired your the
LASAR ignition. Are shielded wires necessary on the left and right magneto
"P" leads? I brought my LASAR unshielded magneto P leads (blue and green)
from
the LASAR control box, in through my firewall and to my left magneto and
right
magneto switches. At shutdown these switches are closed to ground. When
the
engine is running these switches are open.
The LASAR instructions talk about a shielded wire from the standard (all in
one) switch to the magneto P leads but give no help in how long this
shielded
wire should be nor how the shield should be grounded. I asked technical
support at Unison (makers of LASAR) about shielded magneto P lead wires, but
got a
"We don't know" answer. I also asked on the Aeroelectric List and did an
archive search with no success. Perhaps some of you who have LASAR systems
will
help me understand if the LASAR magneto P leads from the control box need
replacement with shielded wires, or if I can use them unshielded through
switches to
ground as I currently have them wired.
Thanks.
Pete Hunt
Clearwater, FL
RV-6, Finishing wiring.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Austin's "Mirror" |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Not building related, delete now unless...
...you'd be interested in a previously unreleased Buster/Austin flying story-
If so, PLEASE REPLY TO ME ( fiveonepw@aol.com ) OFF-LIST ! ! ! !
Mark (with the authors permission & do not archive )
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wire routing |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" <jorear@new.rr.com>
Dan:
Thanks for the tips. I am a few months away from flying, so I still have
time to get all in order.
Boy...months until I fly this thing......Sounds much better than years!
Do Not Archive
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A N782P (reserved)
firewall forward
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wire routing
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 8/29/04 4:20:43 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> jorear@new.rr.com writes:
>
> >
> > Jeff Orear
> > RV6A N782P (reserved)
> > firewall forward
> > Peshtigo, WI
> >
> >
>
> Jeff,
>
> Off the subject, but register your airplane now and save the hassle of
> waiting for the registration just before you fly it. It can take over a
month to
> get it registered. In the application where it says "Number of ------,"
write
> in "seats 2." That cost me 2 or 3 more weeks. Also, get help from
someone who
> has just registered their plane to avoid ANY mistakes in the paperwork.
>
> Do not archive.
>
> Just trying to help. Hope you get it finished soon!
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Flying 40 hours now)
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete |
at will
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
> Perhaps if we simply added "friendship" to "RV-building" as a purpose of
> this list, the signal-to-noise ratio would look a lot better.
What sad commentary on our society that we would have to????
Just my thoughts,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
I'd follow the other poster's suggestion to check to see if you can get it added.
Whether or not they charge for it, it is likely that it will not be too costly.
If that doesn't work, there is always the Pilot Life Insurance Center (www.piclife.com). Bill Fanning is the president. I have referred people to him for years regarding this issue. I believe he still places the coverage thru an Allstate subsidiary.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: dfiggins@es.com
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:55 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
This whole thread has been very informative and caused me to do some
checking on related issues such as life insurance. What I found is that
both my company and personal life insurance policies specifically
exclude injury/death as a result of an accident as either pilot or
passenger in a general aviation aircraft. Gives one pause for thought!!
When you consider that this activity is statistically safer than driving
a car (especially here in Utah) it make you wonder. Can you get specific
coverage for this as a separate policy?
Dave Figgins RV-7A empennage
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan"
--> <rv6flyer@improvementteam.com>
I would add the following:
If you set up a corp to own your plane and maybe other assets - Set it
up in Nevada where the state will not expose the owners to anyone.
Additionally you as the pilot will not likely be the target of a suit if
you do not personally own any assets. Let your nevada corp file a
friendly lien against your home for any equity you have. Nothing to
get, no suit. Check out the following two web sites.
http://www.bulletproofasset.com/nevada.htm
and
http://www.proadvocate.org/index.htm
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
Do Not Archive
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list@matronics.com
Date: 09/02/04 12:37:20
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Actually, that isn't exactly true. Although, I agree that building it
with parts received from the kit manufacturer (and unaltered), according
to their plans is the very best thing you can do to protect yourself
(and have an independant person do an annual as the pre-buy inspection
when you sell it).
The statement you reference from a seminar about negligence was wrong
as negligence isn't necessary for product liability to be determined.
Here is an excerpt from an article by an aviation attorney on product
liability. The link to the entire article is below as well. Notice how
he includes the seller along with the manufacturer (in this case I'd say
assembler, although Van has some strict liability as well as
manufacturer of the kit and having engineered the design).
<snip>
To successfully sue a pilot or operator, a victim must prove that they
were negligent and that their negligence was a cause of the crash.
However, manufacturers and sellers can be sued even if the injured
person cannot prove negligence by the manufacturer. In almost all
states, a victim can hold a manufacturer or seller "strictly liable" if
the plaintiff's attorney can prove that a defect in the product was a
cause of his injuries. The plaintiff does not have to prove negligence
by the manufacturer.
<snip>
You can checkout the entire article here http://www.avweb
com/news/avlaw/181885-1.html but I'd recommend having a pillow nearby
when reading this entire article.
There was a recent case against a manufacturer which was settled by them
even though there was not a defect. One of their first 150 planes was
crashed in 2001 by the owner and a passenger was paralyzed. This
aircraft had a parachute system on it, which the owner elected not to
use. He aimed for a cornfield after his engine quit. He apparently was
(rightfully) busy and nervous and tried to 'land' on the tops of the
corn, stalled high and came down pretty hard.
The FBO which had changed the oil, had failed to safety the drain plug
back in. The engine had emptied of oil, and seized. The FBO had very
low limits of liability and the owners policy did too. The
manufacturers insurance company for products liability held 3 mock
trials and each had the same outcome - The manufacturer had no
liability, but seeing as this person who was paralyzed deserved
something they sided against the deep-pocketed manufacturer. So, there
really doesn't have to be a defect.
The real learning point (I guess) is to devoid yourself of assets. The
attorneys will go after whomever has the money. I have several insureds
who have incorporated a company to own the plane, etc and I've had
others who own nothing but the plane (only if you trust your wife a
lot).
Please let me know (I trust you will) if you have any questions.
JT
P.S. The FAA looks the other way, but according to the FAR's either a
person or a company may own a plane. However, it disallows a company
from owning a plane if the business has no other purpose other than
owning the plane. I have many insureds who set up LLCs or Inc's to own
the plane (both certified and homebuilt) and the FAA never has said a
word.
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> While I will look into the LLC for improved protection, it sounds
like
> I should just be willing to take a big hit and sell for parts rather than
a
> complete plane. .
>
> Thanks everyone for your advice,
> --Eddie
====================================
Psssssst.
You can be sued for the parts just as readily.....
Bob
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
>
> This whole thread has been very informative and caused me to do some
> checking on related issues such as life insurance. What I found is that
> both my company and personal life insurance policies specifically
> exclude injury/death as a result of an accident as either pilot or
> passenger in a general aviation aircraft. Gives one pause for thought!!
> When you consider that this activity is statistically safer than driving
> a car (especially here in Utah) it make you wonder.
==================================
Sorry.....
The way YOU fly may be safer than the way YOU drive.
However, the published stats that I 've seen say that driving a car is
safer.
Bob - Figures can lie and liars can figure
Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | wire gage, length, amp chart |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Your pdf shows bad file for me using v6 Adobe.
Also with all the return posts, that math was real nice, certainly nice
to know, and I did at one time, but not what I was looking for. Let me
try again. Example. Pitot heat is 7 amps, 12' wire run. What is the
appropriate wire gage? If I have that question in my head, which I have
about 200 times in the next 4 months, I want to look at a simple chart
on my wall that tells me the appropriate wire size. I don't want to
calculate L1 based on conductive temperatures of 20deg c and so forth.
http://www.moneypit.net/~pratt/ac43/ac43c11a.zip
AC 43.13 1B chapter 5 page 3 amp chart is completely ridicules and far
too complicated for me to deal with more than once.
AC 43.13 1B torque chart is right on the money and thanks for that one.
If anyone knows of a nice graph chart of wire length, amps, and gage,
please fwd.
Thanks
Mike Stewart
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris W
Subject: Re: RV-List: wire gage, length, amp chart
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W
<1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Can you believe after at least 30 minutes of hunting a good chart on
>this, I cant find one on-line or in the archives.
>
>
I am afraid I don't have a chart for you but I do have a suggestion
along these lines. There are tons of charts like the wire chart and
torque chart you want that could come in handy for builders or just
people who like to tinker on things in the garage. I would like to
volunteer to be the editor for a nice PDF file with all the charts we
might want. I have already made a nice metric to inch to number sized
drill conversion chart here http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/chart.pdf but
is people who know where to find these charts could submit them to me I
will put them into one nice reference. I have already found several
handy ones from the McMaster Carr web catalog that I could just copy and
put in. One thing I want to be sure of is that I have a reference for
where the data in all the charts that I put in came from, so it can be
verified and updated more easily.
Even if you don't have, or know where, a chart you would want in is, let
me know what it is, so those who know where the data is can let me
know. I know the Machinery Handbook and AC 43.13 have a lot of this
information but they both are missing some and I think a more condensed
reference would be welcomed by many here. If not feel free to ignore my
suggestion.
do not archive
--
Chris W
Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org
Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
http://thewishzone.com
==
==
==
==
Message 9
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| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 15:55 02/09/2004 <dfiggins@es.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
> What I found is
> that both my company and personal life insurance policies specifically
> exclude injury/death as a result of an accident as either pilot or
> passenger in a general aviation aircraft. Gives one pause for
> thought!!
Just to show how silly the whole insurance scam is, my current work policy
specifically excludes coverage if I am operating as "crew" in an aircraft,
but not if i'm a passenger. Sounds reasonable, that way i'm covered if I
go flying commercially, but i'm not covered if i'm flying my own plane.
But if I take a co-worker flying in my own aircraft, he's covered, and i'm
not. Go figure.
-Rob
do not archive
Message 10
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| Subject: | Bifocal Contact Lens |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull@nasa.gov>
Phil,
I was a little ticked off when I had to invest in another pair of contacts
for flying. But I immediately noticed two things that may or not be true
for other bifocal contact lens wearers: One, the "response" time to go from
distant focus to near focus was much, much quicker with the reading glasses
and single focus contacts. Two, my "depth of field" (photographic
term...the optometrists use another term but it's essentially the same) was
much deeper with my reading glasses combined with my single focus contacts.
My apologies to the other folks on the list, since this may not be
considered RV related, but I have a strong belief that when we plan our
instrument panels on our RV's we need to be sure everything is in focus.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil [mailto:phatphill@comcast.net]
Subject: RE: RV-List: Bifocal Contact Lens
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil" <phatphill@comcast.net>
I wear then when I fly and I'm going to stop because the FAA is not up to
speed on the technology. I just hope the sky cops don't pull me over and
check my vision.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hull, Don
Subject: RV-List: Bifocal Contact Lens
--> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull@nasa.gov>
I know this is an old thread and considered non-RV related by some on the
list, but if anyone out there is flying with bifocal contact lenses as I was
for a few years...don't. The FAA doesn't approve contact lens for near
vision correction, and that includes the common practice of using one
contact lens for near vision and one for far vision, called "monovision."
However, LASIK surgery correcting one eye for near vision and the other for
far vision is permitted after a waiting period of something like 6 months.
My AME who was a NASA flight surgeon was not aware of the recent re-wording
of the rules until I pointed them out to him.
I will say here that I got very good advice from both EAA and AOPA
physicians who are very knowledgeable. I wear bifocal contacts daily, but
when I go flying I wear single vision contact lens for distant vision and
have reading glasses handy for near vision. (Some military pilots do the
same.)
Also, I should mention I met at Airventure 2002 Dr. Van Nakagawara who is a
Research Optometrist with the FAA in Oklahoma City. He also is very
knowledgeable and helpful.
If you're interested in more details, contact me off-list.
Don Hull
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Starter Woes (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
I think you may be right. The high altitude along with a nose wheel
probably makes for harder landings (carrier style) which could be
detrimental to the starter :)
Laird Owens wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
>
> My 98 vintage Skytec is still working fine at 1000 hrs......must the
> the high altitude :-)
>
> Now that I've said that, I expect mine to fail next time I try to start
> it.
>
> Laird
> SoCal
>
> Do not archive
>
> On Sep 2, 2004, at 8:54 AM, Gary Zilik wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>>
>>Oh I forgot, mine was a 98 vintage. 75% of the O-360 powered RV's on
>>our
>>field of similar vintage have had similar contactor problems in the
>>400-500 hour range. Some earlier, some later. We surmise there may have
>>been a batch of starters that may have be effective. Of course this is
>>just in our little RV world. Mileage may vary
>>
>>Gary
>>
>>Gary Zilik wrote:
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>>>
>>>I don't think the PM design is a downside to this starter. I wanted a
>>>wound motor because it was explained to me that a wound motor takes
>>>less
>>>cranking amps than a PM. I figured less is good here. The PM design is
>>>definitely lighter.
>>>
>>>SportAV8R@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>>>>
>>>>he explained there was a modification for the starter
>>>>
>>>>Gary- what vintage is your Sky-Tec? In what way might this
>>>>difficulty relate to the fact that it is a PM design?
>>>>
>>>>Curious.
>>>>
>>>>-Bill B
>>>>with a '98 vintage SkyTec and 420 trouble-free hours.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_-
>>=======================================================================
>>_-
>>=======================================================================
>>_-
>>=======================================================================
>>_-
>>=======================================================================
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
Disclaimer: I don't sell life or health insurance. But I do sell property and
casualty insurance and the general principals are the same.
Getting to my point, insurance policies have to define what risks they want to
cover so that they can more precisely price their product. You indicated that
your particular policy restricts coverage for pilots operating an aircraft.
So, if that's something you do a lot of, and you want coverage for that, then
look for a policy which covers that.
Would you think that it'd be fair if a NASCAR driver got the same policy as you
and for the same price? Do you think that his risk of dying is greater than
yours? He'd be in your same risk pool. Said another way his estate would get
paid out of the same fund as yours in the event of either of your deaths, and
yet he's more likely to die.
The policy has to define the risk somehow or else it is unfair to the other insureds
(you'd pay a higher premium if the NASCAR guys/gals were let into your risk
pool). Generally, anything is insurable. It is up to you and your agent
to assess what type of policy best fits your needs. Apparently, your life insurance
agent didn't discover that you were a private pilot or you told him/her
and he/she didn't recognize that was an exclusion on your policy.
Insurance is a tool that many people use to help them deal with risk. There are
other tools that can be used as well. Being a (IMHO) reputable insurance agent,
former Boy Scout, and commissioned Army Officer, I would not be associated
with this industry if I thought we were 'scamming' people.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Prior
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 9:45 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 15:55 02/09/2004 <dfiggins@es.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
> What I found is
> that both my company and personal life insurance policies specifically
> exclude injury/death as a result of an accident as either pilot or
> passenger in a general aviation aircraft. Gives one pause for
> thought!!
Just to show how silly the whole insurance scam is, my current work policy
specifically excludes coverage if I am operating as "crew" in an aircraft,
but not if i'm a passenger. Sounds reasonable, that way i'm covered if I
go flying commercially, but i'm not covered if i'm flying my own plane.
But if I take a co-worker flying in my own aircraft, he's covered, and i'm
not. Go figure.
-Rob
do not archive
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Aluminum blade MT propeller for Lyconing 320 |
--> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
Hi All,
MT Propeller has just completed the analysis on their aluminum 2 blade CS
propeller for the Lycoming 320 engine, and determined that the performance will
be very good for this engine.
Mt Propeller delivers this propeller with a spinner to match your existing
RV cowl installation for a 13" diameter spinner.
The older RV-3 and RV-4 models with the 12" diameter spinner will need to be
reviewed on a case by case basis.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
HR2 OEM Distributor for MT Propeller
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Stein,
We bought from the builder, then registered under our LLC, so guess I buy
you a beer, but it'll have to be one of our fine Oregon microbrews... Black
Butte Porter o.k.?
Jerry Cochran
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: LLC
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Exactly....you can "Register" it as anything you want, including a
corporation, partnership, etc...
What does your airworthiness certificate and dataplate say as the mfgr??
If it says LLC then you win, if it doesn't, then you owe me a beer!
Cheers,
Stein.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet@hotmail.com>
Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints in Vetterman
exhausts?
Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
Jack
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
Message 16
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| Subject: | construction videos |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve@adelphia.net>
I've posted a few videos on ebay if any is interested. They close in 2
hours. Just search for them if interested. Do not archive ...steve
Orndorf Video - RV6 RV8 Prepunched Empenage Video $20.00
Orndorf Video - RV6 RV8 Wings Construction Video $21.60
Orndorf Video - RV6 Finishing Kit Construction Video $20.00
Orndorf Video - RV6 Fuselage Kit Construction Video $31.15
Orndorf Video - RV Aircraft systems Construction Video $31.11
Orndorf Video - RV Interior Construction Video $20.00
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 15:16 02/09/2004 "David" <davewendi@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was
> > that you would have to be found negligent in your building
> > practices to have any liability. Build it correctly and dont
> > worry about.
>
> With all due respect, tell that to Parker Hannifan.
With all due respect, Parker Hannifan was found liable in a court of law.
Which suggests there is at least some question as to whether there was some
negligence in design or negligence in activities after the fact. From an
article on the verdict:
"federal investigators found that Parker Hannifin vacuum pumps failed in 20
other plane crashes, killing 46 people, between 1981 to 1998. He said the
company knew the pumps could fail at any time but continued to manufacture
the pumps until shortly after the Carnahan crash. The company sent
warnings to pilots suggesting they install a backup system for the vacuum
pumps and said it frequently urged the Federal Aviation Administration to
make the backup systems mandatory, but the government agency declined to do
so."
Their actions alone suggest that PH may have decided there was a deficiency
that should be corrected, or at least "backed up". Now we're not going to
resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
-Rob
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
In the case I mentioned, however, which settled within the last 2 months, all three
mock juries came back with the same result, no culpability on the part of
the manufacturer. And yet the injured party (paralyzed) deserved something,
and the only party involved (merely due to the fact that it was one of their planes)
that had any money to give him was the manufacturer. The owner didn't
own much, and the FBO which was truly at fault (didn't safety wire the drain plug
back into the plane after oil change) didn't own anything of value either.
They leased all the planes, buildings, etc. and didn't own anything but an insurance
policy with miniscule limits.
So, the manufacturer settled. Granted those weren't actual court proceedings,
but they were run by the insurance company which was going to end up paying out
if the manufacturer was found liable, or settled. The insurance company recommended
settling after 3 seperate mock trials all came up the same.
All please have a safe and happy Labor Day weekend!
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Prior
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" <rv7@b4.ca>
On 15:16 02/09/2004 "David" <davewendi@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was
> > that you would have to be found negligent in your building
> > practices to have any liability. Build it correctly and dont
> > worry about.
>
> With all due respect, tell that to Parker Hannifan.
With all due respect, Parker Hannifan was found liable in a court of law.
Which suggests there is at least some question as to whether there was some
negligence in design or negligence in activities after the fact. From an
article on the verdict:
"federal investigators found that Parker Hannifin vacuum pumps failed in 20
other plane crashes, killing 46 people, between 1981 to 1998. He said the
company knew the pumps could fail at any time but continued to manufacture
the pumps until shortly after the Carnahan crash. The company sent
warnings to pilots suggesting they install a backup system for the vacuum
pumps and said it frequently urged the Federal Aviation Administration to
make the backup systems mandatory, but the government agency declined to do
so."
Their actions alone suggest that PH may have decided there was a deficiency
that should be corrected, or at least "backed up". Now we're not going to
resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
-Rob
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete |
at
will
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Agreed - but isn't support/motivation already there.
Chuck
>From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related,
>delete at will
>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:27:40 -0500
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps if we simply added "friendship" to "RV-building" as a purpose of
> > this list, the signal-to-noise ratio would look a lot better.
>
>What sad commentary on our society that we would have to????
>
>Just my thoughts,
>
>Doug Rozendaal
>
>
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints in Vetterman
exhausts?
Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
Jack
My suggestion on the "Kevorkian heat muff" set-up: don't go there. Not even with
a CO monitor. There are ways to make this work without bridging a joint, but
I know from experience it's tight.
-Stormy
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: wire gage, length, amp chart |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" <dcarter@datarecall.net>
Mike,
You may have missed my e-mail - a useful chart you are looking for is Fig.
8-4 in Bob Nuckoll's "Aeroelectric Connection" book. The wire gauges are
on the x axis, 22 awg on left and bigger wires going to the right. You go
straight up from any wire gauge to one of the 2 or 3 guidelines (how much
temperature rise you want to accept). Delta 35 deg C/63 deg F is the top
guide line that Bob told us to draw in the e-mail I sent to you - the
guideline starts at "10 amps" straight up from 22 awg and slopes up to the
right - parallel to the existing guidelines I think. You then re-label the
"35 degree C" guideline (the one starting at 5 amps) to be "10 deg C/18 deg
F rise".
Even though 22 awg won't overheat at 7 amps "steady state", the pitot heat
draws a LOT more than 7 amps during the warm up time. I have a lot of
e-mails saved on that topic. I've attached 4 and will send this to your
personal e-mail as well as the "list" (which strips attachments).
So, a problem with "a chart on the wall that I can look at and it will tell
me what size wire to use" is the problem that some circuits don't have a
simple, "single or steady state current draw". You have to know the
characteristics of your device that is drawing the current. What you and
all of us would like is a "knowledge base" or "systems design" chart, that
tells us, by system - not by "steady state current draw" - what size wire,
with a hyperlink or footnote to tell how that was derived.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: wire gage, length, amp chart
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
> Your pdf shows bad file for me using v6 Adobe.
> Also with all the return posts, that math was real nice, certainly nice
> to know, and I did at one time, but not what I was looking for. Let me
> try again. Example. Pitot heat is 7 amps, 12' wire run. What is the
> appropriate wire gage? <snip> I want to look at a simple chart
> on my wall that tells me the appropriate wire size. I don't want to
> calculate L1 based on conductive temperatures of 20deg c and so forth.
>
<snip>
>
> If anyone knows of a nice graph chart of wire length, amps, and gage,
> please fwd.
>
> Thanks
> Mike Stewart
Message 22
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rv-list <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Hi folks
For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment.
How have you brought the wire from the battery to the starter contactor
through the firewall??
what kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention have you used.
pro's/con's??
thanks
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Message 23
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| Subject: | Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints
> in Vetterman
> exhausts?
> Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
>
> Jack
Jack,
Those things leak quite a bit, I think the only history would be found
in the NTSB report of the crash.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 519 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David" <davewendi@comcast.net>
.
Now we're not going to
> resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
> far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
>
> -Rob
The above may be true but, from what I have read, it's
far from clear that PH was the "cause" of the accident.
As a matter of fact, the information that has been published suggests that
PH had absolutely nothing to do with the cause of the accident. While I
don't pretend to have all the facts concerning this case, the point I am
trying to make is that you can be sued for any reason, and you can lose for
no reason. Happens every day and much too often!
David Kirby
RV6-A QB
========================================================================
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Bob 1 wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1" <rv3a@comcast.net>
>
>
>
>> While I will look into the LLC for improved protection, it sounds
>>
>>
>like
>
>
>>I should just be willing to take a big hit and sell for parts rather than
>>
>>
>a
>
>
>>complete plane. .
>>
>>Thanks everyone for your advice,
>>--Eddie
>>
>>
>====================================
>
>Psssssst.
>You can be sued for the parts just as readily.....
>
>
>Bob
>
>do not archive
>
>
Actually, you should totally disassemble it . After is is disassembled,
you should take all the pieces to my house in the middle of the night
and leave them in my drive way and drive away without telling
anyone....... Not one person, never...........
Phil , in Illinois
RV 6 N181RV Wings on, canopy fitted, will paint it someday after I
finish fitting all the assembled parts.. And under no circumstances do I
want anyone to congratulate me when I announce my first flight in this 6
year project....
do not archive
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
Never a good idea to put a heat muff over a
exhaust slip joint or ball joint. They will expand
at operating temps and eventually loosen up.
Deadly as you can imagine!
Stew RV-4
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Don't feed the cable thru the firewall.
Use an insulated brass, etc. bolt to penetrate the firewall, with a
cable used on both sides of the firewall.
John Danielson
RV-6 Sold
Harmon Rocket
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert
Subject: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
--> RV-List message posted by: Gert <gert@execpc.com>
Hi folks
For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment.
How have you brought the wire from the battery to the starter contactor
through the firewall??
what kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention have you used.
pro's/con's??
thanks
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
==
==
==
==
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | Re: >Re:how to feed the battery cable through the fir |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
Gert;
You didn't mention which Rv you are building.
In our RV-4 I mounted the starter relay on the backside of the firewall and
ran the cable through the left sidewall into the cowl cheek and on to the
starter. I wanted to keep the relay in the cooler environment.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 29
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD" <khedrick@frontiernet.net>
Oh great list,
I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
with this problem.
thanks
Keith Hedrick
RV 6
3LF
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: jammeter@comcast.net
You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems on
my RV-6
John
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
>
> Oh great list,
>
> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
> with this problem.
>
> thanks
>
> Keith Hedrick
> RV 6
> 3LF
>
>
>
>
>
>
You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems on my
RV-6
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD" <KHEDRICK@FRONTIERNET.NET>
Oh great list,
I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
with this problem.
thanks
Keith Hedrick
RV 6
3LF
>
ttp://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
Message 31
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Oh great list,
>
>I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
>stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
>for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
>with this problem.
>
>thanks
>
>Keith Hedrick
Fuselage penetration=FENESTRATION. LOVE it!! Gotta remember that one.
Even if it is only a typo. :)
Stick boots. That's the answer. DJ makes 'em, or can modify aftermarket
shifter boots from Pep Boys and the like. Also, boots around the aileron
pushrods where they FENESTRATE the fuselage sides will keep the air from
getting into the cabin at all. I think Sam B. shows an install on his
website.
Good luck and get 'er done before wintertime!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes@comcast.net>
There is a cloth boot that can be installed around the aileron push rod as
it comes into the cockpit on each side to keep the air out. I think I saw
them for sale at Cleveland or Becky Ormdorf.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <jammeter@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cold air
> --> RV-List message posted by: jammeter@comcast.net
>
> You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air
> problems on my RV-6
>
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
>>
>> Oh great list,
>>
>> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
>> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
>> and
>> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
>> one
>> with this problem.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Keith Hedrick
>> RV 6
>> 3LF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems
> on my RV-6
>
>
> John
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
> <KHEDRICK@FRONTIERNET.NET>
>
> Oh great list,
>
> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
> with this problem.
>
> thanks
>
> Keith Hedrick
> RV 6
> 3LF
>
>
> >
> ttp://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
For Sale: One set of RV-6/6A plans with manuals
and some newsletters. Call Merrill Knouse,
319/732-2861
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