---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/20/04: 36 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:47 AM - IO-360-A1B6D (RV8ter@aol.com) 2. 03:00 AM - Re: IO-360-A1B6D (R.A.S) 3. 04:06 AM - For Sale RV-6 Kit (gerald conrad) 4. 04:52 AM - alternators (Shirley Harding) 5. 05:21 AM - tail wheel spring wanted (PGLong@aol.com) 6. 05:22 AM - FAILED MAIN LANDING GEAR RV-8 (RV_8 Pilot) 7. 05:47 AM - Re: IO-360-A1B6D (Ralph E. Capen) 8. 06:36 AM - Re: IO-360-A1B6D (RV8ter@aol.com) 9. 08:32 AM - PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Crosley, Rich) 10. 08:35 AM - 3/32 blind rivets (russ@wernerworld.com) 11. 08:42 AM - Re: Another RV finally in the air. (Imfairings@aol.com) 12. 10:07 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Jim Duckett) 13. 10:09 AM - gear leg fairings (Donald Mei) 14. 10:44 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (David E. Nelson) 15. 10:55 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stein Bruch) 16. 11:03 AM - Re: 3/32 blind rivets (Ralph E. Capen) 17. 11:24 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (steve zicree) 18. 12:36 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 19. 01:21 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (SportAV8R@aol.com) 20. 01:28 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (linn walters) 21. 03:08 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Jim Duckett) 22. 03:41 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 23. 04:00 PM - Re: 3/32 blind rivets (plaurence@the-beach.net) 24. 04:02 PM - Tuft Testing the RV wing (Wheeler North) 25. 04:12 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Craig Warner) 26. 04:34 PM - Gear Leg Fairings (Gabriel A Ferrer) 27. 05:12 PM - Re: Gear Leg Fairings (Vanremog@aol.com) 28. 05:17 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Vanremog@aol.com) 29. 05:26 PM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (Gert) 30. 05:28 PM - Re: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal (Vanremog@aol.com) 31. 05:48 PM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (Richard Tasker) 32. 06:50 PM - Re: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal (cgalley) 33. 07:38 PM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (David Carter) 34. 08:26 PM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (David Carter) 35. 09:32 PM - Re: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal (JOHN STARN) 36. 09:44 PM - Pt. Mugu Air Show After Action Report (Tom Gummo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:47:15 AM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6D --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Where's online info on how to maintain and service the dual mag pack unique to this model? I searched the lycoming web site over the weekend but didn't find what I was looking for. Now that my engine is mounted, I see the ops manual that came with it is really lacking the details I need. Where can I find detailed info on this model such as 1) should there be a gasket between the Bendix fuel system and the engine pad for it, 2) how do you set up and adjust the RSA 5AD1fuel metering system 3) the example drawings in the book don't exaxtly match the engine so is there a more specific on on the web somewhere? The manual I have doesn't even have one picture of this engine! I could go on but if somone could tell me where I could learn more specific info on installing this specific engine that would be welcomed. thanks, Lucky ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:00:25 AM PST US From: "R.A.S" Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6D --> RV-List message posted by: "R.A.S" Hi, does this engine actually fit in the mount or did you order a special mount from Van's? Marcel ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:19 AM PST US From: gerald conrad Subject: RV-List: For Sale RV-6 Kit --> RV-List message posted by: gerald conrad RV-6 Kit For Sale. Empennage 5% done, Wings 20%, Fuselage & Finishing 0%. Slow build. My wife wants it out of the garage. $12,000. or $15,600 Canadian. Reply off line. Gerry Conrad RV-6A ...50 hrs RV-6 kit Montreal, Canada ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:06 AM PST US From: "Shirley Harding" Subject: RV-List: alternators --> RV-List message posted by: "Shirley Harding" ----- Original Message ----- From: Shirley Harding Subject: alternators Hi all -- any photos or advice on an alternator set-up for an RV6. I've got the Vans brackets and a Bosch alternator but it seems to hit the lower cowl. Cheers Shirley RV6 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:16 AM PST US From: PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: tail wheel spring wanted --> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com I have one from left my RV4 when I went to the full swivel tail wheel assy. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:01 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RV-List: FAILED MAIN LANDING GEAR RV-8 0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From: contains an underline and numbers/letters --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" Tom - Glad no airframe damage occurred. Someone else build your -8? Van sent out a letter and test kit to builders in order to check for this condition. Mine's s/n 313 and I was notified sometime in 1999 as I recall. Checked out fine. Glad no a/c damage occurred. On the bright side, maybe you now have an opportunity for some nice Grove Al landing gear?!?! Bryan Houston -8 >We just removed two bent landing gears from my recently completed RV-8. No, >it was not a hard landing. It was because I was sent a pair of unhardened >gear >legs as part of my original kit. I don't know how many others are out there >like this, but this is one of the earlier kits, serial #80013. The >C-hardness >test on the bent gear was 11. It was supposed to be C-42 to 44. If it >doesn't >look right on your airplane, it probably isn't. The good part is we caught >it >before we had any damage. The bad part is it could have wiped out the whole >airplane. New gears have been installed and it is ready to go again. >Performance >is unbelievable. Regards, Tom. > >Tom Whelan >Whelan Farms Airport > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:06 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6D --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" I almost bought a used one of these from a Cessna Cardinal with three blade CS prop IIRC. You might find documentation in that direction...Hope this helps... I was looking for the three blade capability afforded by the counterweights - I eventually had Aerosport Power build my engine as I encountered the same documentation (lack of) issues that you are experiencing. -----Original Message----- From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6D --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com Where's online info on how to maintain and service the dual mag pack unique to this model? I searched the lycoming web site over the weekend but didn't find what I was looking for. Now that my engine is mounted, I see the ops manual that came with it is really lacking the details I need. Where can I find detailed info on this model such as 1) should there be a gasket between the Bendix fuel system and the engine pad for it, 2) how do you set up and adjust the RSA 5AD1fuel metering system 3) the example drawings in the book don't exaxtly match the engine so is there a more specific on on the web somewhere? The manual I have doesn't even have one picture of this engine! I could go on but if somone could tell me where I could learn more specific info on installing this specific engine that would be welcomed. thanks, Lucky ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:36:57 AM PST US From: RV8ter@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: IO-360-A1B6D --> RV-List message posted by: RV8ter@aol.com it fit van's. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:32:08 AM PST US From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK 1.96 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to paint the wing and gas tank. 1. Separately and use stainless screws 2. Paint together screws included 3. Fill screws and paint together 4. Or what If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems like it would be a pain. Thanks, Rich Crosley RV-8 N948RC Palmdale, CA ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:11 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: 3/32 blind rivets From: russ@wernerworld.com --> RV-List message posted by: russ@wernerworld.com Anyone know where to get 3/32 flush pop rivets that are a bit longer than the ones Vans sells? Please email me direct at russ@wernerworld.com Russ Werner HRII ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:54 AM PST US From: Imfairings@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Another RV finally in the air. --> RV-List message posted by: Imfairings@aol.com Way to go Charlie...I can see that RV grin clear over here in AZ...Fly safe...enjoy. Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc www.fairings-etc.com bob@fairings-etc.com ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:19 AM PST US From: Jim Duckett Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett Rich, It's really six of one and half dozen of the other. The big thing is what do YOU want to do? As a painter, I've done it both ways with success. No matter what way you go, if you have to remove the tank at a later date you will undoubtedly mar the paint in some way... Guaranteed! If your using a two-stage system, then I tend to lean more to the separate component approach. At least for the primary color. Then put it all together and lay-out and shoot your stripes or secondary color(s). Any fairings or access panels should only be installed temporarily to lay out for color breaks. Then removed and shot separately no matter what way you choose. Nothing bothers me more than to see overspray around a fairing, or little or no paint coverage on a panel joggle. Using a B/C system you can easily repair any defects in the basecoat before you clear. I would suggest that you not make your color breaks on or real close to any attachment lines (rivets and screws) so if you do mar the paint, you only have one color to deal with. Just remember the time you spend planning and prepping you paint job will be in direct proportion to how well the job comes out. If you've never painted before you might want to go to your local wrecking yard and buy a couple of junk hoods and practice on them before tackling your bird...Just my 2 Cents. Jim Duckett RV708JD Do Not Archive Crosley, Rich wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" > > I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to >paint the wing and gas tank. > >1. Separately and use stainless screws >2. Paint together screws included >3. Fill screws and paint together >4. Or what > >If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems >like it would be a pain. > > >Thanks, > >Rich Crosley >RV-8 N948RC >Palmdale, CA > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:19 AM PST US From: "Donald Mei" Subject: RV-List: gear leg fairings --> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Dear All, I am fitting updated single piece gear leg fairings to my RV-4. I've got them set to use hose clamps to secure the upper end. My questions are: How did you secure the lower end of the fairing to the gear leg, or did you let it float? (or just let the wheel pant intersection fairing locate it? Was anything needed as a chaffe guard between the gear leg and the fairing. Thanks, Don Mei "All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:50 AM PST US From: "David E. Nelson" Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" Hi Jim, What is a "B/C system"? Thanks, /\/elson On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Jim Duckett wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett > > Rich, > It's really six of one and half dozen of the other. The big thing is > what do YOU want to do? > As a painter, I've done it both ways with success. No matter what way > you go, if you have to remove the tank at a later date you will > undoubtedly mar the paint in some way... Guaranteed! > If your using a two-stage system, then I tend to lean more to the > separate component approach. At least for the primary color. Then put > it all together and lay-out and shoot your stripes or secondary > color(s). Any fairings or access panels should only be installed > temporarily to lay out for color breaks. Then removed and shot > separately no matter what way you choose. Nothing bothers me more than > to see overspray around a fairing, or little or no paint coverage on a > panel joggle. > Using a B/C system you can easily repair any defects in the basecoat > before you clear. I would suggest that you not make your color breaks > on or real close to any attachment lines (rivets and screws) so if you > do mar the paint, you only have one color to deal with. > Just remember the time you spend planning and prepping you paint job > will be in direct proportion to how well the job comes out. If you've > never painted before you might want to go to your local wrecking yard > and buy a couple of junk hoods and practice on them before tackling your > bird...Just my 2 Cents. > > Jim Duckett RV708JD ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:55:52 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" I'd just add one thing here. If this is your first paint project, the Base/Clear might not be the best choice....yes you can fix problems before you clear coat it, but for ease of use, you can't beat the single stage system. Acrylic Urethane like PPG Concept or DuPont Chroma One are wonderful. Look beautiful upon finish, and if you do find some problems, you can still wet sand and buff it out to a high gloss. I like Jims advice on fairings, etc.. I have one plane that has quite a problematic scheme on it, and had to install and remove things a lot of times to layout stripes, etc... Cheers, stein bruch RV6's, Minneapolis -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Duckett Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett Rich, It's really six of one and half dozen of the other. The big thing is what do YOU want to do? As a painter, I've done it both ways with success. No matter what way you go, if you have to remove the tank at a later date you will undoubtedly mar the paint in some way... Guaranteed! If your using a two-stage system, then I tend to lean more to the separate component approach. At least for the primary color. Then put it all together and lay-out and shoot your stripes or secondary color(s). Any fairings or access panels should only be installed temporarily to lay out for color breaks. Then removed and shot separately no matter what way you choose. Nothing bothers me more than to see overspray around a fairing, or little or no paint coverage on a panel joggle. Using a B/C system you can easily repair any defects in the basecoat before you clear. I would suggest that you not make your color breaks on or real close to any attachment lines (rivets and screws) so if you do mar the paint, you only have one color to deal with. Just remember the time you spend planning and prepping you paint job will be in direct proportion to how well the job comes out. If you've never painted before you might want to go to your local wrecking yard and buy a couple of junk hoods and practice on them before tackling your bird...Just my 2 Cents. Jim Duckett RV708JD Do Not Archive Crosley, Rich wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" > > I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to >paint the wing and gas tank. > >1. Separately and use stainless screws >2. Paint together screws included >3. Fill screws and paint together >4. Or what > >If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems >like it would be a pain. > > >Thanks, > >Rich Crosley >RV-8 N948RC >Palmdale, CA > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:46 AM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: 3/32 blind rivets --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" I got mine at Aircraft Supply on Parwelk in Dallas...2146373598...don't know what their mail-order process is...I just drive over...... -----Original Message----- From: russ@wernerworld.com Subject: RV-List: 3/32 blind rivets --> RV-List message posted by: russ@wernerworld.com Anyone know where to get 3/32 flush pop rivets that are a bit longer than the ones Vans sells? Please email me direct at russ@wernerworld.com Russ Werner HRII ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:22 AM PST US From: "steve zicree" Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" I'm on the fence on this one myself, but leaning towards painting it as one unit. I think visible screws on tips and fairings look fine, but they seem kind of wrong on the wing. I figure if there's a problem in the future that requires removal, I'll carefully remove them and repalce with stainless at that time. I seem to remember seeing a tool once for making a little round "incision" in paint around the perimeter of the screw's head -- looked like a little bitty hole saw. Steve Zicree RV4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK > --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" > > I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to > paint the wing and gas tank. > > 1. Separately and use stainless screws > 2. Paint together screws included > 3. Fill screws and paint together > 4. Or what > > If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems > like it would be a pain. > > > Thanks, > > Rich Crosley > RV-8 N948RC > Palmdale, CA > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:45 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" The inside diameter of a -6 aluminum tube fits the OD of a -8 screwhead perfectly. I took a piece of tube to the bench sander and ground a very sharp edge so the tube could be placed over a screw head, turned to cut the paint and the painted screw could then be removed leaving the paint behind on the skin. Worked great on every screw head I did. Course I did not figure this trick out till I broke some paint off removing the first few screws and called a professional painter buddy who hooked me up with this trick. On my S8 tanks, I have sacrificial screws which are slightly loose, enough so that paint cant get underneath the head when sprayed, but loose enough that paint wont stick to the head and skin when removed. This way I can paint a good set of screws and put them in at the end, and when I tighten em, they wont chip the paint under the screw cause there is no paint under the screw cause the sacrificial screws were covering the holes. Neat huh? Not my idea. This was completely stolen from my painter w/o the sacrificial screws, then you toy with chipping paint either putting the screws in, or taking them out, regardless of when tool to make to cut the paint around the screws. Mike Stewart Learned my lesson on this. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve zicree Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" I'm on the fence on this one myself, but leaning towards painting it as one unit. I think visible screws on tips and fairings look fine, but they seem kind of wrong on the wing. I figure if there's a problem in the future that requires removal, I'll carefully remove them and repalce with stainless at that time. I seem to remember seeing a tool once for making a little round "incision" in paint around the perimeter of the screw's head -- looked like a little bitty hole saw. Steve Zicree RV4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK > --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" > > I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to > paint the wing and gas tank. > > 1. Separately and use stainless screws > 2. Paint together screws included > 3. Fill screws and paint together > 4. Or what > > If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems > like it would be a pain. > > > Thanks, > > Rich Crosley > RV-8 N948RC > Palmdale, CA > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:01 PM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: RE: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com Mike: why would the sacrificial screws need to be replaced with new ones? Sounds like they emerge from the process already painted but not stuck down - ideal. -Bill B ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:28:56 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters steve zicree wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" > >I'm on the fence on this one myself, but leaning towards painting it as one >unit. > If you back the screws out before you shoot the paint or paint the screw heads separately you shouldn't have any problems. the problem with shooting the screw heads separately is that they may not be an exact match with the skin when you're done. Don't ask me why, 'cuz I don't know.. Linn do not archive > I think visible screws on tips and fairings look fine, but they seem >kind of wrong on the wing. I figure if there's a problem in the future that >requires removal, I'll carefully remove them and repalce with stainless at >that time. I seem to remember seeing a tool once for making a little round >"incision" in paint around the perimeter of the screw's head -- looked like >a little bitty hole saw. > >Steve Zicree >RV4 > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Crosley, Rich" >To: >Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" >> >> > > > >> I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to >>paint the wing and gas tank. >> >>1. Separately and use stainless screws >>2. Paint together screws included >>3. Fill screws and paint together >>4. Or what >> >>If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems >>like it would be a pain. >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Rich Crosley >>RV-8 N948RC >>Palmdale, CA >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:02 PM PST US From: Jim Duckett Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett That's true Stein for a single color but, we like the two-stage because we seem to have deeper colors and far better hold out with a two-stage system. Plus it's a lot easier and tremendously faster to lay out multiple colors and patterns than a single stage. Not to mention that you won't have any break edges once the clear goes on. As opposed to using single stage for multiple colors. As far as buffing goes... same, same to us. We always do at least final buff and polish on all our jobs. Too many years of building Hot Rods and Show Cars I guess. For those folks that are really interested in an inexpensive single stage urethane system, PPG's Commercial Coating Line recently introduced close to 900 colors in their CCU product. Looks way better than an acrylic enamel, cures faster than a standard single stage urethane, and costs under $200. per gallon to shoot. We've only shot some electrical boxes and transformers for contractors so far but, after 6 months or so in the weather, they still look as good as when they left the shop. Freightliner Trucks (who has a very high paint quality standard) plans on converting to CCU this year. So that should say something about the product. Bottom line, there's as many opinions on what product to use to paint your plane as there are colors to choose from. IMHO use the best product line that will give you your expected results. Remember, in refinishing products as with most everything you plan to put in or on your ship, you generally get what you pay for. Just understand the system, it's application, and it's limitations first. That way you won't end up discovering the many different ways to apply stripper. Jim Duckett Stein Bruch wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >I'd just add one thing here. If this is your first paint project, the >Base/Clear might not be the best choice....yes you can fix problems before >you clear coat it, but for ease of use, you can't beat the single stage >system. Acrylic Urethane like PPG Concept or DuPont Chroma One are >wonderful. Look beautiful upon finish, and if you do find some problems, >you can still wet sand and buff it out to a high gloss. > >I like Jims advice on fairings, etc.. I have one plane that has quite a >problematic scheme on it, and had to install and remove things a lot of >times to layout stripes, etc... > >Cheers, >stein bruch >RV6's, Minneapolis > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Duckett >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett > >Rich, >It's really six of one and half dozen of the other. The big thing is >what do YOU want to do? >As a painter, I've done it both ways with success. No matter what way >you go, if you have to remove the tank at a later date you will >undoubtedly mar the paint in some way... Guaranteed! >If your using a two-stage system, then I tend to lean more to the >separate component approach. At least for the primary color. Then put >it all together and lay-out and shoot your stripes or secondary >color(s). Any fairings or access panels should only be installed >temporarily to lay out for color breaks. Then removed and shot >separately no matter what way you choose. Nothing bothers me more than >to see overspray around a fairing, or little or no paint coverage on a >panel joggle. >Using a B/C system you can easily repair any defects in the basecoat >before you clear. I would suggest that you not make your color breaks >on or real close to any attachment lines (rivets and screws) so if you >do mar the paint, you only have one color to deal with. >Just remember the time you spend planning and prepping you paint job >will be in direct proportion to how well the job comes out. If you've >never painted before you might want to go to your local wrecking yard >and buy a couple of junk hoods and practice on them before tackling your >bird...Just my 2 Cents. > >Jim Duckett RV708JD > >Do Not Archive > > >Crosley, Rich wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" >> > > >>I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to >>paint the wing and gas tank. >> >>1. Separately and use stainless screws >>2. Paint together screws included >>3. Fill screws and paint together >>4. Or what >> >>If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems >>like it would be a pain. >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Rich Crosley >>RV-8 N948RC >>Palmdale, CA >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:41:16 PM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" QWhoLCBnb29kID8gTGlubi4NCkJlY2F1c2Ugd2hlbiB5b3UgYXJlIHNhbmRpbmcgYmV0d2VlbiBj b2F0cywgeW91IGhhdmUgdG8gcnVuIHRoZW0gaW4gdG8gZ2V0IHRoZSBza2lucyBzZWF0ZWQgdG8g Z2V0IGEgZ29vZCB3ZXQgc2FuZC4gV2l0aCB0aGUgc2NyZXdzIHNsaWdodGx5IHJhaXNlZCwgaXQg dGVhcnMgdXAgdGhlIHNhbmRwYXBlciBvbiB0aGUgREEgb3IgdGhlIGhhbmQgc2FuZGluZy4NClNv IHRoZXkgZ2V0IGJ1Z2dlcmVkIHVwIHJ1bm5pbmcgZW0gaW4gYW5kIG91dC4NCiANCg0KCS0tLS0t T3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0KCUZyb206IG93bmVyLXJ2LWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJv bmljcy5jb20gb24gYmVoYWxmIG9mIFNwb3J0QVY4UkBhb2wuY29tIA0KCVNlbnQ6IE1vbiA5LzIw LzIwMDQgNDoxNyBQTSANCglUbzogcnYtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIA0KCUNjOiANCglTdWJq ZWN0OiBSRTogUlYtTGlzdDogUEFJTlRJTkcgVEhFIEdBUyBUQU5LDQoJDQoJDQoNCgktLT4gUlYt TGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogU3BvcnRBVjhSQGFvbC5jb20NCgkNCglNaWtlOiB3aHkg d291bGQgdGhlIHNhY3JpZmljaWFsIHNjcmV3cyBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIHJlcGxhY2VkIHdpdGggbmV3 IG9uZXM/ICBTb3VuZHMgbGlrZSB0aGV5IGVtZXJnZSBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcm9jZXNzIGFscmVhZHkg cGFpbnRlZCBidXQgbm90IHN0dWNrIGRvd24gLSBpZGVhbC4NCgkNCgktQmlsbCBCDQoJDQoJDQoJ Xy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCglfLT0gICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gVGhlIFJWLUxpc3QgRW1haWwg Rm9ydW0gLQ0KCV8tPSBUaGlzIGZvcnVtIGlzIHNwb25zb3JlZCBlbnRpcmVseSB0aHJvdWdoIHRo ZSBDb250cmlidXRpb25zDQoJXy09IG9mIExpc3QgbWVtYmVycy4gIFlvdSdsbCBuZXZlciBzZWUg YmFubmVyIGFkcyBvciBhbnkgb3RoZXINCglfLT0gZm9ybSBvZiBkaXJlY3QgYWR2ZXJ0aXNpbmcg b24gdGhlIE1hdHJvbmljcyBGb3J1bXMuDQoJXy09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT0NCglfLT0gISEgTkVX ICEhDQoJXy09IEFMTCBORVcgTElTVCBDSEFUISEgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL2No YXQNCglfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KCV8tPSBMaXN0IFJlbGF0ZWQgSW5mb3JtYXRpb24NCglf LT0gIFBvc3QgTWVzc2FnZTogICBydi1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NCglfLT0gIFVOL1NVQlND UklCRTogICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9uDQoJXy09ICBMaXN0 IEZBUTogICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL0ZBUS9SVi1MaXN0Lmh0bQ0KCV8t PSAgU2VhcmNoIEVuZ2luZTogIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9zZWFyY2gNCglfLT0g IDctRGF5IEJyb3dzZTogICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vYnJvd3NlL3J2LWxpc3QN CglfLT0gIEJyb3dzZSBEaWdlc3RzOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vZGlnZXN0L3J2 LWxpc3QNCglfLT0gIExpdmUgTGlzdCBDaGF0OiBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY2hh dA0KCV8tPSAgQXJjaGl2ZXM6ICAgICAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9hcmNoaXZl cw0KCV8tPSAgUGhvdG8gU2hhcmU6ICAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS9waG90b3No YXJlDQoJXy09ICBMaXN0IFNwZWNpZmljOiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL3J2LWxp c3QNCglfLT0gIE90aGVyIExpc3RzOiAgICBodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vZW1haWxs aXN0cw0KCV8tPSAgVHJvdWJsZSBSZXBvcnQgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbS90cm91 YmxlLXJlcG9ydA0KCV8tPSAgQ29udHJpYnV0aW9uczogIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bS9jb250cmlidXRpb24NCglfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCQ0KDQo ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:00:48 PM PST US From: plaurence@the-beach.net Subject: Re: RV-List: 3/32 blind rivets --> RV-List message posted by: plaurence@the-beach.net Russ, Try http://www.aerotech.aero/ccr_specs.htm Peter Laurence On 20 Sep 2004 at 10:34, russ@wernerworld.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: russ@wernerworld.com > > Anyone know where to get 3/32 flush pop rivets that are a bit longer > than the ones Vans sells? Please email me direct at > russ@wernerworld.com > > Russ Werner > HRII > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:09 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this weekend. http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/ resplice as needed. So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still have several things to try. I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane. On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like the thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude, and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit from all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of data and analysis into one sentence) W ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:31 PM PST US From: "Craig Warner" Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: "Craig Warner" Pait the wing with the tank in place but the screw heads sticking up. When the paint dries switch the screws to stainless. Craig warner- 3 RVs painted Finally building my own. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK > --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" > > > I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to > paint the wing and gas tank. > > 1. Separately and use stainless screws > 2. Paint together screws included > 3. Fill screws and paint together > 4. Or what > > If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems > like it would be a pain. > > > Thanks, > > Rich Crosley > RV-8 N948RC > Palmdale, CA > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:43 PM PST US From: "Gabriel A Ferrer" Subject: RV-List: Gear Leg Fairings --> RV-List message posted by: "Gabriel A Ferrer" I've had a continuous problem with my leg fairings. They are attached by a single clamp at the top. The leg fairings come loose about every 15 flight hours. Anybody with some good ideas? Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX 135 hours South Florida Survived Hurricane Frances. Hurricane Eye went right over hangar. No plane damage. Email: ferrergm@bellsouth.net Cell: 561 758 8894 Fax: 561 833 3138 ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:12:46 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Gear Leg Fairings --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/2004 4:35:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ferrergm@bellsouth.net writes: I've had a continuous problem with my leg fairings. They are attached by a single clamp at the top. The leg fairings come loose about every 15 flight hours. ============================== Gage- Is the material yielding or is the screw backing off? There are better clamps available if the material is yielding (bending or deflecting) and you should safety wire them if the screw is backing off. Mine are installed the same way and have not moved in almost 720 hrs. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:47 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/2004 8:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, RCR OSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM writes: I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to paint the wing and gas tank. 1. Separately and use stainless screws 2. Paint together screws included 3. Fill screws and paint together 4. Or what ====================================== My choice is or what. Use only 8-32 socket head cap screws in just a few locations to hold the tanks in place on the wing and they will allow paint to penetrate down into the dimples. Back them out slightly after paint has set and then remove completely and install CRES screws when paint is dry. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:44 PM PST US From: Gert Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: Gert Hey wheeler I think you have typos in yer page.... ../tuftstests/ has one too many s's in the line ;-) all links for the pic's come up broken but if I splice RV6_stalls_001.jpg' behind the page url it will work. Gert Wheeler North wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > > This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows > pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a > bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this > weekend. > > > http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/ > > resplice as needed. > > So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still have > several things to try. > > I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but > more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the > awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane. > > On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the > www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like the > thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude, > and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit from > all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of data > and analysis into one sentence) > > W > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:44 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/19/2004 6:16:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hopperdhh@aol.com writes: What is EPDM? ==================================== Punch it into your favorite search engine and find out all you want to know and more.. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:47 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Well, this would all be very interesting, but the pictures and movies do not show up on the web pages - just the text. The images are blank and if you try to look at just the image, it shows 404 missing link. Really would like to look at your testing results! Dick Tasker Wheeler North wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows >pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a >bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this >weekend. > > >http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/ > >resplice as needed. > >So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still have >several things to try. > >I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but >more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the >awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane. > >On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the >www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like the >thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude, >and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit from >all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of data >and analysis into one sentence) > >W > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:19 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" EPDM: Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer from Google! ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal > --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > > In a message dated 9/19/2004 6:16:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > Hopperdhh@aol.com writes: > > What is EPDM? > > > ==================================== > > Punch it into your favorite search engine and find out all you want to know > and more.. > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:12 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" By following Gert's tip, was able to view each of the .jpg photos (rt click each to pop up menu & click "Properties" to get details that give the number to change in the jpg name of each photo - not all in squence so have to look at each one). The 3 movie links, after deleting the extra s that is between tuft & test (should be tufttest, not tuftstest), downloaded OK but I only got audio, no video. Probably some problem with my Windows Media player - have used it to view video clips before but it's not giving video on these files. Is the .mov extension what it is looking for to see it as a video file instead of an audio file? About the tufts - I'm almost amazed at how the tufts behind the fuel tank (and the line just outboard of tank) show totally separated airflow all the way to the front, while the others are straight all the way aft. - I wonder if there is something tripping the airflow abnormally in the inboard half of the wing? Wouldn't think it was prop-wash or landing gear down below. - Anyone have any archived photos of other aircraft for comparison? Think CAFE tufted and took pics? David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wheeler North" Subject: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > > This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows > pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a > bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this > weekend. > > > http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/ > > resplice as needed. > > So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still have > several things to try. > > I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but > more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the > awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane. > > On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the > www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like the > thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude, > and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit from > all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of data > and analysis into one sentence) > > W > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:42 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" I had to download Quick Time (free). Worked fine then - saw all 3 video clips. do not archive David ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > By following Gert's tip, was able to view each of the .jpg photos (rt click > each to pop up menu & click "Properties" to get details that give the number > to change in the jpg name of each photo - not all in squence so have to look > at each one). The 3 movie links, after deleting the extra s that is between > tuft & test (should be tufttest, not tuftstest), downloaded OK but I only > got audio, no video. Probably some problem with my Windows Media player - > have used it to view video clips before but it's not giving video on these > files. Is the .mov extension what it is looking for to see it as a video > file instead of an audio file? > > About the tufts - I'm almost amazed at how the tufts behind the fuel tank > (and the line just outboard of tank) show totally separated airflow all the > way to the front, while the others are straight all the way aft. > - I wonder if there is something tripping the airflow abnormally in the > inboard half of the wing? Wouldn't think it was prop-wash or landing gear > down below. > - Anyone have any archived photos of other aircraft for comparison? > Think CAFE tufted and took pics? > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wheeler North" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > > > > This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows > > pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a > > bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this > > weekend. > > > > > > http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/ > > > > resplice as needed. > > > > So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still > have > > several things to try. > > > > I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but > > more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the > > awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane. > > > > On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the > > www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like > the > > thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude, > > and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit > from > > all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of > data > > and analysis into one sentence) > > > > W > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 09:32:05 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 sliding canopy weather seal RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" EPDM: Ethylene Propylene Diene Monomer Yea, but does she have a good looking sister ? Do Not Archive Sorry list police, it's just who I am.. KABONG HRII N561FS, flying but working on strobes. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:09 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" "Rocket List" , "SoCal RV List" Subject: RV-List: Pt. Mugu Air Show After Action Report --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Do not archive. Long Delete now if not interested. Not building related. Pt. Mugu (NTD) Air Show After Action Report After several months of planning and coordinating, several members of the SoCal RVators were able to fly their planes to a military base, NTD, and be part of the Air Show during the weekend of September 18 and 19. For Saturday, three planes signed up: Mike Duggan, Chris Kleen, and Tom Gummo. However, the weather was not kind. They wanted us there no later than 7:30 AM as they open the gates around 8:00 AM. The weather had been bad for a couple of days so Chris flew to CMA and stayed the night. He was able to fly under the 2000 foot overcast and had no problem landing at NTD. Mike was trapped by the weather in the basin and was unable to takeoff until 10:15 AM. He was turned away as the Air Show had already started. I had the normal high desert weather of clear and million at Apple Valley but as I crossed the mountain, there below me was a complete "under-cast." As I talked to Pt. Mugu approach, several planes reported holes in the overcast near Santa Paula so I turned to that direction. However, those holes had MOUNTAINS sticking up through them. As a turned south, I found a hole where I could CLEARLY see the ground. After a careful look at the map, I decided it would be safe to drop down through this sucker hole. As I turned toward NTD, approach said, "You are in CMA airspace." I was just glad that I could see the ground and was under the clouds. While the visibility was marginal, I was able to land with no other problems. After I landed and taxied to my parking place by Chris, who was already there, they closed fence. While Chris and I were parked together, they parked us about thirty feet apart. So we pushed the planes closer together. Shortly there after, Dave Richardson showed up (he drove) with the posters. THEY WERE A BIG HIT. Due to a mix up, Rick Gould didn't show up with a table or any tail feathers (We need to work on the ground crew, if we ever do this again). Chris and I had a great time. As the day when on, the weather got better. The weather cleared enough for the Golden Knights to do their high show. Mark Swaney, a F-1 builder and a Captain in the Navy, showed up and said hello. BTW, he worked behind the scenes to help with some of the problems, which cropped up. He also coordinated several issues while we were there. As the show ended, several guys showed up and opened a hole in the fence and help push us beyond the fence. We were able to crank up and depart VFR. We didn't have to wait until 5:30 as stated. Sunday started with clear weather so no dropping through holes in the clouds. As I had to stop for fuel, I was the last to land again. This time three RVs were waiting for the Rocket. Paul Rosales, Bill Marvel, and Em Richard beat me in. Dwayne Cowles was a no show but he did tell me that he had other plans, which he was working to change (guess he was unable). Bill also flew to CMA the afternoon before, as he was beating the no departures early in the morning at his home drome. This time, I had a passenger - Jack or as you know him - KABONG. However, by the time the air show was to start, the winds had picked up. In fact, they cancelled the Golden Knights parachute jumps because of the high winds. All day the winds never abated. It was between 20 to 30 knots all day. Once again, we had a great day with fellow RVators, got to watch a good air show, and showed hundreds it not thousands of people our planes. Rick showed up and gave a tour of the P-3 aircraft to those who wanted it. Once the air show ended, a fuel truck showed up and we were topped off for free. I was told to not ask for fuel as we would have a better chance of being allowed to come but they had plenty to give away (I could have saved about 60 dollars had I known). We were told the wind would die down in an hour or so but it was not to be. After a reasonable time, the nose wheel guys decided that they could handle the 28 gust to 35 knot crosswind and departed safely. Em and I asked to be allowed to use the crosswind runway but they had parked planes on it and only 500 feet remained before the cable across the runway. Again, Mark helped a lot. It took a while but they finally said that we could use it. Em lead us to the takeoff point. We had to taxi forward some more to make them happy but we got clearance to takeoff. As she applied power, the tail came up. After about 100 to 150 feet, she was airborne. As I applied power, my tail came up - even with Jack in the back, within seconds the plane started those little hops when it is ready to fly so I added a little more back pressure and we also were airborne well before the cable. Wish there was someway to measure it but it was clearly my shortest takeoff roll ever. I now have proof that an RV can takeoff from a carrier deck. The wind would be about the same as the carrier sailing forward into minimum wind. Em and I then split up and flew home. For Jack and I, the tailwind helped us see over 215 knots ground speed (Normal cruise is about 170 to 175 knots, no wind). The landing at APV was not my best but then again I had a 15 gust to 22 knot wind to play with. Those of us who came had a great time and would like to do it again. Em had a good idea that we should make a video (CD-ROM or DVD) of the different things we can offer an air show: formation demonstrations, static displays of not only experimental aircraft but the people who have built them, that we can park several aircraft much closer together (much less ramp space that they think) and that we can push our aircraft in and out of the crowd safely (therefore, there is no requirement for us to bring our planes in the day before the show starts and leave them there all weekend long. Note: at one point they wanted us to fly in Thursday and stay until Sunday after the show.) Then, sending this DVD to different military bases, Edwards AFB, March AFB, Miramar NAS, Pt. Mugu NAS - to name a few, to see if we can be part of their air shows. I am sure I left out some important details so the rest of you feel free to change or add to this report. I LOVE JET NOISE - AFTERBURNER, EVEN BETTER. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo Wild Weasel #1753 Major, USAF Retired, F-4G Instructor Pilot http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II, N561FS, 220 hours do not archive