Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:42 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
2. 05:21 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (linn walters)
3. 06:43 AM - Re: Aerosport Power Engine (John Helms)
4. 07:01 AM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (Charlie Kuss)
5. 07:26 AM - fiberglass tips rivet choice (Will, Scott)
6. 08:19 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (DJB6A@cs.com)
7. 08:41 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Scott Bilinski)
8. 09:01 AM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Peter Laurence)
9. 09:51 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
10. 10:01 AM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (HCRV6@aol.com)
11. 10:48 AM - Panel Mount Compass (Trainnut01@aol.com)
12. 11:42 AM - heated seats (Christopher Stone)
13. 12:19 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (linn walters)
14. 12:32 PM - (Jimmy Hill)
15. 01:06 PM - Help! builders in Reading, PA area? (RWINGSPAN@aol.com)
16. 01:23 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
17. 01:23 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
18. 01:26 PM - engine oil leak (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
19. 01:26 PM - fiberglass tips rivet choice (Gabriel A Ferrer)
20. 02:00 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Peter Laurence)
21. 02:04 PM - Re: engine oil leak (Smcm75@aol.com)
22. 02:10 PM - Re: (linn walters)
23. 02:14 PM - Re: Help! builders in Reading, PA area? (Jim Cimino)
24. 03:04 PM - Re: engine oil leak (cgalley)
25. 03:26 PM - Re: Acro and Gyros (Laird Owens)
26. 03:28 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Jim Oke)
27. 03:57 PM - Re: Panel Mount Compass (Ed Holyoke)
28. 04:13 PM - Re: engine oil leak (Stein Bruch)
29. 05:04 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Kyle Boatright)
30. 05:42 PM - Re: engine oil leak (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
31. 05:43 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Hal / Carol Kempthorne)
32. 05:51 PM - Re: (Alex Peterson)
33. 05:52 PM - Re: engine oil leak (Rquinn1@aol.com)
34. 06:35 PM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
35. 07:06 PM - Re: Panel Mount Compass (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
36. 07:09 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (steve zicree)
37. 07:13 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
38. 07:14 PM - Aircraft Wiring (Rick Galati)
39. 07:19 PM - Re: engine oil leak (steve zicree)
40. 07:21 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
41. 07:25 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (steve zicree)
42. 07:33 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Sam Buchanan)
43. 07:52 PM - Re: engine oil leak (Michael Hilger)
44. 07:55 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (steve zicree)
45. 08:21 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Stein Bruch)
46. 08:22 PM - Need Help (Mike Comeaux)
47. 09:11 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Richard E. Tasker)
48. 09:52 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Vanremog@aol.com)
49. 10:30 PM - Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice (Jim Oke)
Message 1
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| Subject: | PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Sorry for the other garbled message. When you see those, you will know a
lister tried to send from an Outlook Web Access client.
Anyway, here was my response.
===
Ahh, good ? Linn.
Because when you are sanding between coats, you have to run them in to
get the skins seated to get a good wet sand. With the screws slightly
raised, it tears up the sandpaper on the DA or the hand sanding.
So they get buggered up running em in and out.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>I'm on the fence on this one myself, but leaning towards painting it as
one
>unit.
>
If you back the screws out before you shoot the paint or paint the screw
heads separately you shouldn't have any problems. the problem with
shooting the screw heads separately is that they may not be an exact
match with the skin when you're done. Don't ask me why, 'cuz I don't
know..
Linn
do not archive
> I think visible screws on tips and fairings look fine, but they seem
>kind of wrong on the wing. I figure if there's a problem in the future
that
>requires removal, I'll carefully remove them and repalce with stainless
at
>that time. I seem to remember seeing a tool once for making a little
round
>"incision" in paint around the perimeter of the screw's head -- looked
like
>a little bitty hole saw.
>
>Steve Zicree
>RV4
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich"
>>
>>
><RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
>
>
>> I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on
how to
>>paint the wing and gas tank.
>>
>>1. Separately and use stainless screws
>>2. Paint together screws included
>>3. Fill screws and paint together
>>4. Or what
>>
>>If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem
seems
>>like it would be a pain.
>>
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Rich Crosley
>>RV-8 N948RC
>>Palmdale, CA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
>
>Sorry for the other garbled message. When you see those, you will know a
>lister tried to send from an Outlook Web Access client.
>
Thanks for that info! I always wondered what that was!!! I get a few a
day like that. I always thought it was somebody sending a picture that
my browser didn't recognize!
>Anyway, here was my response.
>===
>Ahh, good ? Linn.
>Because when you are sanding between coats, you have to run them in to
>get the skins seated to get a good wet sand. With the screws slightly
>raised, it tears up the sandpaper on the DA or the hand sanding.
>So they get buggered up running em in and out.
>Mike
>
Ah, I understand. I've never sanded between color coats .... and
haven't done the B/C thing ..... yet. I was only thinking of the final
color coat. Most of my painting is on fabric anyway ..... and that
presents it's own unique sanding problems. Best of luck!
Linn
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aerosport Power Engine |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Helms" <jhelms@i1.net>
There was no change. Aerosport Power only very recently began to make there own
engines. We have not yet gotten the programs underwriter to accept the Aerosport
Power (Lycoming clone) engine. We fully expected that it wouldn't be an
issue at all. Their Lycoming overhauls have been accepted for years.
I believe I know of whom you are speaking, and that individual has 75 total flying
hours, and no tailwheel experience. The only company that would write coverage
for that individual is our program. I think all RV drivers should be up
in arms that the EAA's wonderful program won't do that for their members! (of
which I am one). There are companies other than the one which underwrites the
program which we'd normally be able to use. However, while they'll accept
that engine, they won't accept him as the pilot. Catch 22.
We are working on getting that engine approved for the program as a whole. I don't
know when it'll happen. For that individual, we are trying to get the underwriter
TODAY to make a one time exception for him since he is in such a pickle.
JT
P.S. Jim, apparently a lot of people read your website. Congratulations. Please
do another post describing how diligently we're working to try to resolve
the issue you posted on 9/11. I've gotten at least 5 or 6 individual inquiries
about this issue.
----- Original Message -----
From: Don.Alexander@AstenJohnson.com
To: jhelms@i1.net
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 8:24 AM
Subject: Aerosport Power Engine
John,
I have recently heard from one of us RV-8 types that he is not able to get
VanGuard insurance for his now-ready-to-fly RV-8 because he has an
Aerosport Power Lycoming clone engine. My understanding was that this
issue had been resolved over a year ago according to a post that you made
to the RV world. Why the change?
Regards,
Don
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Wheeler,
Thanks for the link. However, none of the photos comes up. I tried
accessing the site using both Internet Explorer and Netscape.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North <wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>
>This has probably been done by many before me but the following link shows
>pics of some of the www.landshorter.com vortext generators along with a
>bunch of pics and movies of the left wing tuft testing that I did this
>weekend.
>
>
>http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/
>
>resplice as needed.
>
>So far I'm not convinced that VGs will do much for the RVs, but I still have
>several things to try.
>
>I'm guessing though that the issue will be not that they don't work, but
>more if you already have an awesome airplane, and you increase the
>awesomeness by 5% then you will have a 1.05 awesome airplane.
>
>On the upside the whole project got me reading all the info on the
>www.cafefoundation.org about exhausts, ignition and airflow. Seems like the
>thrust of their work is about lean running the engine above 10K altitude,
>and if you aren't doing this then there isn't a high degree of benefit from
>all the fancy engine mods. (I know, its not fair to reduce 57 pages of data
>and analysis into one sentence)
>
>W
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Will, Scott" <Scott.Will@delta.com>
I'm getting ready to rivet the fiberglass tips on my empennage. I intend to cut
and epoxy some .025 alclad as reiforcing strips for the inside of the fiberglass
as many others have advised. For those who have done this, did you use the
blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) or did you have to get longer ones? If so,
which type of rivets did you use?
Thanks much in advance.
Scott Will
Decatur, GA
-7A emp
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: DJB6A@cs.com
I just painted mine this weekend. Took #8 Screws, tapped a #8 thread in to
aluminum tube, screw into tube, grind the head down using grinder. Install
screws (particularly important that the ones closest to the edge are all
installed), put 1/4" round stickers on screw head. Paint. Next day remove sticker
and
remove screw replace with SS screw, do not over torque, paint is still soft.
Takes some time, but looks pretty good.
Dave Burnham
RV6A (N64FN)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I painted the wing/tank separately. That way if I ever have to remove the
tank there should be less paint damage. I also used stainless screws.
At 08:20 AM 9/20/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich"
><RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
>
> I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on how to
>paint the wing and gas tank.
>
>1. Separately and use stainless screws
>2. Paint together screws included
>3. Fill screws and paint together
>4. Or what
>
>If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem seems
>like it would be a pain.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rich Crosley
>RV-8 N948RC
>Palmdale, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
I used the CS4-4s
Worked well
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will, Scott" <Scott.Will@delta.com>
Subject: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Will, Scott" <Scott.Will@delta.com>
>
> I'm getting ready to rivet the fiberglass tips on my empennage. I intend
to cut and epoxy some .025 alclad as reiforcing strips for the inside of the
fiberglass as many others have advised. For those who have done this, did
you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) or did you have to get longer
ones? If so, which type of rivets did you use?
>
> Thanks much in advance.
>
> Scott Will
> Decatur, GA
> -7A emp
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Even with this method there are still future risks.
1. Putting screws in to proper torque causes paint to crack, chip, tear
pain under screw
2. removing screw to work on tank has the same issue.
The trick is to not get paint under the screw head in the first place.
Mike
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
I painted the wing/tank separately. That way if I ever have to remove
the
tank there should be less paint damage. I also used stainless screws.
At 08:20 AM 9/20/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich"
><RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
>
> I am getting ready to paint and wondering what the consensus is on
how to
>paint the wing and gas tank.
>
>1. Separately and use stainless screws
>2. Paint together screws included
>3. Fill screws and paint together
>4. Or what
>
>If you paint it together removing it because of some future problem
seems
>like it would be a pain.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Rich Crosley
>RV-8 N948RC
>Palmdale, CA
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
==
==
==
==
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
<< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
Yes.
Do not archive
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final details
Message 11
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| Subject: | Panel Mount Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
Has anyone on the list had any experience with panel mounted vertical card
compasses? I've never flown with a compass mounted anywhere other than the top
of the panel or the windshield post. Conventional wisdom used to be that the
compass needed to be as far from the instrument panel electrical components
as possible. However lately I have seen pictures of vertical card compasses
mounted on the panel. Looks great but how well does it work?
Carroll Jernigan
7A Fuselage
do not archive
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
I ran across these seat heaters.
http://www.rameinc.com/SeatHeaters.html
I am considering them for my -8. There has been some past discussion of
heated seats especially for the rear seat in the -8. Don't know yet
what the power requirement is for these.
Chris Stone
Design Engineer
A-DEC
Newberg, Oregon
www.a-dec.com
-8 wings.... forever
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
Linn
HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
>
><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
>
>Yes.
>
>Do not archive
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, final details
>
>
>
>
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jimmy Hill" <jimmy@jhill.biz>
Am planning on some aerobatic dual in my 8A, but worried about my gyros. (full
gyro panel)
Will it help any to disconnect vacuum and turn off electric gyros? Other advice?
Thanks.
Jimmy
8A
do not archive
Message 15
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| Subject: | Help! builders in Reading, PA area? |
--> RV-List message posted by: RWINGSPAN@aol.com
Are there any builders in the Reading, PA area? I'm looking for someone to
exchange time for rivet help. My helper has left me stuck with fuse on jig and
4
skins left to rivet since April. Any help for exchanged help in return would
be greatly appreciated.
Please email off list.
Thanks,
Rich Greener
RV-8
81056
Do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
My guess Linn is that maybe one rv in 15 has em riveted based on my
experience.
We have hashed this once or twice in the past.
Do not archive.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
Linn
HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
>
><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
>
>Yes.
>
>Do not archive
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, final details
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
I too used the CS-4 blind rivets. In 8 years, I've never had a reason to
take the tips off.
Andy
----- Original Message -----
From: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
> on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
> maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
> Linn
>
> HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
> >
> ><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >Harry Crosby
> >Pleasanton, California
> >RV-6, final details
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
My 0-360 has a worsening oil leak apparently from the case seam on the
bottom front end. 10 minutes of ground running produces a couple drops
hanging from the case, and then dirtying the airbox and alternator. Short
of
pulling the engine and re-sealing the case, is there anything that can be
done about this?
I've heard about expensive stuff you can put on the outside of a leaky fuel
tank to stop fuel leaks past rivets. Has anyone ever tried this or
something similar on an engine case seam?
Thanks,
Andy
Message 19
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| Subject: | fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gabriel A Ferrer" <ferrergm@bellsouth.net>
Except for the elevator and vertical stabilizer, I used plate nuts and screws for
my wing tips, wing root covers and empennage fiberglass fittings.
They make for good inspection ports and easy access to landing lights, marker beacon
antenna, angle of attack sensor, etc
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX 136 hours
South Florida
Email: ferrergm@bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Fax: 561 833 3138
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
Linn
there is really nothing to maintain in the vertical stab and top rudder cap.
The bottom rudder cap position light/strobe can be easily accessed without
having to remove the cap..
Also, why add the weight?
Peter
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
> on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
> maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
> Linn
>
> HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
> >
> ><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >Harry Crosby
> >Pleasanton, California
> >RV-6, final details
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: engine oil leak |
--> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
Andy:
You probably have case fretting that could possibly result in spinning a
bearing. The case needs to be split and remachined, line bored and the updated
studs installed. You may as well do a major while you are at it
Message 22
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Jimmy Hill wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jimmy Hill" <jimmy@jhill.biz>
>
> Am planning on some aerobatic dual in my 8A, but worried about my gyros.
(full gyro panel)
>Will it help any to disconnect vacuum and turn off electric gyros?
>
That will probably help. The problem with uncaged gyro's is that they
will hit the stops .... very hard .... because they want to stay in the
'normal' attitude in relation to the earth ...... however, with the gyro
not spinning, I think :-\ the gyro may just be OK. I don't have
any other ideas (or a gyro in my Pitts)
Linn
do not archive
> Other advice?
>
>Thanks.
>
>Jimmy
>8A
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Help! builders in Reading, PA area? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Rich,
If you buy me breakfast, I can probably give you some time on a weekend.
Jim
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: <RWINGSPAN@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Help! builders in Reading, PA area?
> --> RV-List message posted by: RWINGSPAN@aol.com
>
> Are there any builders in the Reading, PA area? I'm looking for someone to
> exchange time for rivet help. My helper has left me stuck with fuse on jig
> and 4
> skins left to rivet since April. Any help for exchanged help in return
> would
> be greatly appreciated.
>
> Please email off list.
> Thanks,
> Rich Greener
> RV-8
> 81056
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine oil leak |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Clean carefully and re-check. Several have found that there was a crack in
the case.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: RV-List: engine oil leak
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company"
<winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
>
> My 0-360 has a worsening oil leak apparently from the case seam on the
> bottom front end. 10 minutes of ground running produces a couple drops
> hanging from the case, and then dirtying the airbox and alternator. Short
> of
> pulling the engine and re-sealing the case, is there anything that can be
> done about this?
>
> I've heard about expensive stuff you can put on the outside of a leaky
fuel
> tank to stop fuel leaks past rivets. Has anyone ever tried this or
> something similar on an engine case seam?
>
> Thanks,
> Andy
>
>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Acro and Gyros |
--> RV-List message posted by: Laird Owens <owens@aerovironment.com>
The guy at the place where I had my DG overhauled said it was much
worse to have no vacuum applied to the gyro and do acro than to have
them hooked up while your playing around.
If your really worried about it, pull them out before playing hard. I
don't, and the SigmaTek A/H is still working after 1000hrs, and the DG
made it 600 or so, and I get the dirty side up almost every flight.
Laird RV-6
SoCal
On Sep 21, 2004, at 2:09 PM, linn walters wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Jimmy Hill wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jimmy Hill" <jimmy@jhill.biz>
>>
>> Am planning on some aerobatic dual in my 8A, but worried about my
>> gyros. (full gyro panel)
>> Will it help any to disconnect vacuum and turn off electric gyros?
>>
> That will probably help. The problem with uncaged gyro's is that they
> will hit the stops .... very hard .... because they want to stay in the
> 'normal' attitude in relation to the earth ...... however, with the
> gyro
> not spinning, I think :-\ the gyro may just be OK. I don't have
> any other ideas (or a gyro in my Pitts)
> Linn
> do not archive
>
>> Other advice?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Jimmy
>> 8A
>> do not archive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
The short answer is yes, maintenance is easier; but only if you have
maintenance to do that realistically requires taking off the wingtips.
Otherwise it is 50 to 60 little platenuts or similar to install and an equal
number of #6 screws to fiddle with, plus added worries about corrosion,
water ingress and so on. This can add up to more maintenance and not less.
Unless you feel the need to install antennas, strobe light power supplies
and the like in the wingtips, there should be almost no reason to want to
take the wingtips off. Most nav light and landing light installations do not
require any special inside access if they are designed with this intent.
This is a builders choice. I riveted my RV-3's wingtips on over 10 years ago
and have felt no need to have done otherwise. My -6A's tips are likewise
riveted on per the plans with the CS4-4s.
Jim Oke
RV-3, RV-6A
Wpg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
> on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
> maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
> Linn
>
> HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>>
>>In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
>>
>><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
>>
>>Yes.
>>
>>Do not archive
>>
>>Harry Crosby
>>Pleasanton, California
>>RV-6, final details
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Panel Mount Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
I recently installed a Precision vertical card compass on the glare
shield of our flying 6a and like it a lot. It's much more readable and
stable than the wet one it replaced. It would be best to stay as far
away as you can from high current devices. It does have compensators on
it so if the electric fields are fairly constant, you'll be able to
swing it within a few degrees on most headings. The paperwork which came
with it stressed that the compass should (I think they said must) be
isolated from vibration. The glare shield mount has a piece of foam on
the bottom where it mounts. You could probably cut a piece of foam to
fit between the panel and the compass and then avoid overtightening the
screws so much that it crushes the foam and get good results.
I'm using a marine compass with remote sender in the 6 I'm building.
There's also the compass module and Dynon solution. Have fun with it.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Trainnut01@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Panel Mount Compass
--> RV-List message posted by: Trainnut01@aol.com
Has anyone on the list had any experience with panel mounted vertical
card
compasses? I've never flown with a compass mounted anywhere other than
the top
of the panel or the windshield post. Conventional wisdom used to be that
the
compass needed to be as far from the instrument panel electrical
components
as possible. However lately I have seen pictures of vertical card
compasses
mounted on the panel. Looks great but how well does it work?
Carroll Jernigan
7A Fuselage
do not archive
==
==
==
==
Message 28
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hmmmm....could be right, but I'd surely explore the other possibilities
before doing a Major Overhaul!!!
It's never that cut & dried with these Lycomings. A leak on the case
doesn't automatically mean that you major it, line bore it, et.al.
Simple fact is that you need to clean it well first and make sure you know
exactly where the leak is coming from. Best way is as follows:
#1) Clean the area with Stoddard Solvent or something like that,
#2) Spray the suspect area with "Lycoming Oil Leak Checker", also known as
Foot Powder Spray at the local Walgreens aviation department. (Any good
Lycoming Mechanic should have a couple cans of this stuff around).
#3) If you have another person available, run the engine until the "leak
checker" shows you EXACTLY where the leak is. Like Cy said, it might be a
crack, but it might not.
#4) Semetimes leaks that look like case leaks actually are not. Nose seals
have a nasty habit of leaving everything dry, except for the lower front
case halves where the oil drips/wicks down to. Heck, much of the time when
the front seals start leaking, they leave the ring gear completely dry, but
look like the case is leaking (this actually is a fairly common reason for
oil appearing at the case halves up front). This would be my first area of
inspection. Also, if you can get a small mirror under the flywheel and look
at the front nose/main seal, you can probably tell if it's damp/wet or not.
Note: your prop flange and flywheel may still be dry.
Next, make sure the case halves are still torqued to where they should be.
Might be a simple loose bolt or two.
Only as a last resort would I split the case. Only if all of the above are
100% proven to not be the culprit would I consider splitting the engine.
Sorry if this note came across harsh, I didn't mean too....
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Smcm75@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: engine oil leak
--> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
Andy:
You probably have case fretting that could possibly result in spinning a
bearing. The case needs to be split and remachined, line bored and the
updated
studs installed. You may as well do a major while you are at it
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
> The short answer is yes, maintenance is easier; but only if you have
> maintenance to do that realistically requires taking off the wingtips.
> Otherwise it is 50 to 60 little platenuts or similar to install and an
> equal
> number of #6 screws to fiddle with, plus added worries about corrosion,
> water ingress and so on. This can add up to more maintenance and not less.
>
> Unless you feel the need to install antennas, strobe light power supplies
> and the like in the wingtips, there should be almost no reason to want to
> take the wingtips off. Most nav light and landing light installations do
> not
> require any special inside access if they are designed with this intent.
>
> This is a builders choice. I riveted my RV-3's wingtips on over 10 years
> ago
> and have felt no need to have done otherwise. My -6A's tips are likewise
> riveted on per the plans with the CS4-4s.
>
> Jim Oke
> RV-3, RV-6A
> Wpg, MB
>
I concur. I installed the kajillion little platenuts and after the fact
(and 3.5 years flying), I can't figure out why I went to the trouble. If
you plan properly up front and don't damage the airplane, I can't think many
good reasons to go the platenut route... If you do damage the airplane to
the point where you need to remove a wing tip, drilling out a few dozen pop
rivets will be the least of your concerns.
KB
Message 30
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--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
We had an aluminum engine once that had a crack - in the oil pan of an Alfa
Romeo, I believe. Tapped either side of the crack with a body pick and the
leak went away! I'd be a little shy about this in the airplane, especially
if the crack was thru an oil gallery. Or do Lycomings just splash?
hal
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes@earthlink.net>
At 01:19 PM 9/21/2004, you wrote:
>Gabe in South Florida wrote:
>They make for good inspection ports and easy access to landing lights,
>marker beacon antenna, angle of attack sensor, etc
And for keeping an eye on the progress of corrosion?
hal
Message 32
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jimmy Hill" <jimmy@jhill.biz>
>
> Am planning on some aerobatic dual in my 8A, but worried
> about my gyros. (full gyro panel)
> Will it help any to disconnect vacuum and turn off electric
> gyros? Other advice?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jimmy
> 8A
Others will certainly disagree, but I believe non-spinning gyros won't
be harmed by acro. Spinning gyros hitting their stops can't be good,
while a dead gyro will just lazily wander around in its gimbals. The
gyro shops will tell you to "just leave them spinning - it is better for
them". What they don't tell you is who the "them" is. See
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/misc.htm for one possible
way to control the suction.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 525 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: engine oil leak |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rquinn1@aol.com
Andy, We also had an oil leak that, even with the help of the experts, we
could not locate. Then one of the best A&Ps came over and looked and said that
I should cut my oil vent hose on such an angle that would give the case a
slight vacuum. I did and the leak was cured.
Rollie & Rod
RV6A with about 86 hours (and a clean cowl)
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/20/2004 1:38:22 PM Central Standard Time,
mstewart@iss.net writes:
On my S8 tanks, I have sacrificial screws which are slightly loose,
enough so that paint cant get underneath the head when sprayed, but
loose enough that paint wont stick to the head and skin when removed.
>>>>>>>>
So after painting, how long do you wait before putting in the final screws
and tightening them? (using PPG Concept w/CC, may vary by system...)
Mark
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Panel Mount Compass |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/21/2004 11:49:11 AM Central Standard Time,
Trainnut01@aol.com writes:
However lately I have seen pictures of vertical card compasses
mounted on the panel. Looks great but how well does it work?
>>>>>>>>
Got a PAI-700 mounted at top of panel between alt & a/s, directly above
Microair comm & xpndr- doesn't respond to either radio & works great. Just don't
set your headset on top of the panel when your tip-up is open! 8
)
Mark
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
I think things are getting mixed up here. Is the question regarding wingtips
or tail tips? The wing tips need to be removable for wiring issues, and also
for removal of the aileron push-tubes. Same goes for fairings. For this
reason, I'm painting these items separately and attaching with stainless
hardware. The tail tips are a different story. I don't envision having to
remove these items so I'm riveting them on and painting as a unit.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
<mstewart@iss.net>
>
> My guess Linn is that maybe one rv in 15 has em riveted based on my
> experience.
> We have hashed this once or twice in the past.
> Do not archive.
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn walters
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>
> Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
> on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
> maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
> Linn
>
> HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
> >
> ><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
> >
> >Yes.
> >
> >Do not archive
> >
> >Harry Crosby
> >Pleasanton, California
> >RV-6, final details
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ==
> ==
> ==
> ==
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/21/2004 1:20:58 PM Central Standard Time,
lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
>>>>>>>>
Here's a suggestion for the truly daring- Use hinges to mount your wingtips,
just like yer cowling- I can have my tips off in 5 minutes for whatever
(Navaid/strobes/lights/ants/etc...) and NO "unsightly" screws with attendant
traumatic paint concerns! Just a simple parting line. If you want more info or
fotos, lemme know.......
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark, 51PW "Deviant Behavior" 8
) STILL waiting for
paint..............................
Message 38
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
Listers,
I truly wish I had downloaded this easy to understand booklet "Aircraft Wiring
for Smart People" before I started into that phase of my project. To my mind,
the author did an excellent job of making the task much easier to comprehend
than other documents I have attempted to read and he did it without leaning so
heavily on theory, charts, formulas, etc. I have no connection with the company
whatsoever, just passing along what I think is a valuable find.
http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php
Rick Galati RV-6A N307R "finishing"
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: engine oil leak |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Not much experience here regarding Lycomings, but I've built a whole bunch
of motorcycle and VW engines over the years and I'd have to agree with
Stein. Make absolutely sure where the oil is coming from. The foot spray
thing works well for this. In my experience the leaks are rarely coming from
where you first think and seals go bad a lot more often than cases crack.
Having said all that, this thing takes you way up in the sky so be cautious.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: engine oil leak
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> Hmmmm....could be right, but I'd surely explore the other possibilities
> before doing a Major Overhaul!!!
>
> It's never that cut & dried with these Lycomings. A leak on the case
> doesn't automatically mean that you major it, line bore it, et.al.
>
> Simple fact is that you need to clean it well first and make sure you know
> exactly where the leak is coming from. Best way is as follows:
>
> #1) Clean the area with Stoddard Solvent or something like that,
> #2) Spray the suspect area with "Lycoming Oil Leak Checker", also known as
> Foot Powder Spray at the local Walgreens aviation department. (Any good
> Lycoming Mechanic should have a couple cans of this stuff around).
> #3) If you have another person available, run the engine until the "leak
> checker" shows you EXACTLY where the leak is. Like Cy said, it might be a
> crack, but it might not.
> #4) Semetimes leaks that look like case leaks actually are not. Nose
seals
> have a nasty habit of leaving everything dry, except for the lower front
> case halves where the oil drips/wicks down to. Heck, much of the time
when
> the front seals start leaking, they leave the ring gear completely dry,
but
> look like the case is leaking (this actually is a fairly common reason for
> oil appearing at the case halves up front). This would be my first area
of
> inspection. Also, if you can get a small mirror under the flywheel and
look
> at the front nose/main seal, you can probably tell if it's damp/wet or
not.
> Note: your prop flange and flywheel may still be dry.
>
> Next, make sure the case halves are still torqued to where they should be.
> Might be a simple loose bolt or two.
>
> Only as a last resort would I split the case. Only if all of the above
are
> 100% proven to not be the culprit would I consider splitting the engine.
>
> Sorry if this note came across harsh, I didn't mean too....
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> RV6's, Minneapolis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Smcm75@aol.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: engine oil leak
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Smcm75@aol.com
>
> Andy:
>
> You probably have case fretting that could possibly result in spinning a
> bearing. The case needs to be split and remachined, line bored and the
> updated
> studs installed. You may as well do a major while you are at it
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 09/21/2004 4:28:49 PM Central Standard Time, wjoke@shaw.ca
writes:
there should be almost no reason to want to
take the wingtips off.
>>>>
Not that you'd ever WANT to, but this is about the only way to remove your
aileron pushtube, and possibly the easiest way to add/subtract/multiply wires to
tip accesories! Also really cool for eyeballin' the wing innards come
inspection time. Sheeeez, I've had mine off lots of times w/o pain- just comes
in
handy sometimes........
Mark
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Jim,
Did you paint the tips separately or rivet and then paint?
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>
> The short answer is yes, maintenance is easier; but only if you have
> maintenance to do that realistically requires taking off the wingtips.
> Otherwise it is 50 to 60 little platenuts or similar to install and an
equal
> number of #6 screws to fiddle with, plus added worries about corrosion,
> water ingress and so on. This can add up to more maintenance and not less.
>
> Unless you feel the need to install antennas, strobe light power supplies
> and the like in the wingtips, there should be almost no reason to want to
> take the wingtips off. Most nav light and landing light installations do
not
> require any special inside access if they are designed with this intent.
>
> This is a builders choice. I riveted my RV-3's wingtips on over 10 years
ago
> and have felt no need to have done otherwise. My -6A's tips are likewise
> riveted on per the plans with the CS4-4s.
>
> Jim Oke
> RV-3, RV-6A
> Wpg, MB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> >
> > Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
> > on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
> > maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
> > Linn
> >
> > HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
> >>
> >>In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> >>Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
> >>
> >><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
> >>
> >>Yes.
> >>
> >>Do not archive
> >>
> >>Harry Crosby
> >>Pleasanton, California
> >>RV-6, final details
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Rick Galati wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I truly wish I had downloaded this easy to understand booklet
> "Aircraft Wiring for Smart People" before I started into that phase
> of my project. To my mind, the author did an excellent job of making
> the task much easier to comprehend than other documents I have
> attempted to read and he did it without leaning so heavily on theory,
> charts, formulas, etc. I have no connection with the company
> whatsoever, just passing along what I think is a valuable find.
>
> http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A N307R "finishing"
I'm *not* taking sides on this issue, only wish to offer additional food
for thought. Here is a critique of the above referenced article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Aircraft_Wiring_For_Smart_People_Reviewed.pdf
There are several good ways to wire an airplane. The cool part is that
we as experimental builders can do our homework, bounce around various
opinions and ideas, make informed choices, and design our wiring
architecture to be as simple or complex as we want it!
Sam Buchanan
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine oil leak |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Michael Hilger" <rvsixer@juno.com>
Andy,
I agree with Stein, also. When I overhauled my O-360 as my project was nearing
completion, I had to split the case again after it was torqued up. The second
time the crankshaft seal was installed I forgot to put sealer around the
outside where it contacts the case. The resulting leak (the seal stayed in the
case) was slight and just as Stein says the flywheel and prop flange were dry.
The leak made itself known the same way yours has. A "normal" crankseal leak
(between the crank and the seal) may well do the same.
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM 620 hrs
Get your name as your email address.
Includes spam protection, 1GB storage, no ads and more
Only $1.99/ month - visit http://www.mysite.com/name today!
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Holy Cow!! This rivet/screw debate has got my head spinning. I think I've
changed my mind five times in the last ten minutes while reading these
posts. How about this for a compromise: Paint wings and tips separately to
avoid havock in the unlikely event of removal, and then rivet on using
aluminum mandrel rivets for reasonably easy drill-out if necessary. I now
await the attacks from the "unfilled pop rivets are a sin against God and
Nature" crowd.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 09/21/2004 4:28:49 PM Central Standard Time,
wjoke@shaw.ca
> writes:
> there should be almost no reason to want to
> take the wingtips off.
> >>>>
> Not that you'd ever WANT to, but this is about the only way to remove your
> aileron pushtube, and possibly the easiest way to add/subtract/multiply
wires to
> tip accesories! Also really cool for eyeballin' the wing innards come
> inspection time. Sheeeez, I've had mine off lots of times w/o pain- just
comes in
> handy sometimes........
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 45
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Unfortunately I've learned the hard way that one can't objectively comment
about things like that on this list (everything I say gets forwarded back to
the author, mfg, etc.. by some idiot).
Anyway, the only thing I found in the article that was absolutely wrong was
this....
"We all know that Tefzel wire is white".......NOT TRUE! I have it in 9
colors and it can be had in more!
The article also extoles the virtues of RG-142, while failing to mention
that RG-400 (while EXACTLY the same price as RG-142) is at least superior in
the fact that the center conductor is stranded (not solid as in RG-142) and
is more resistant to vibration and bending.
One last thing. Don't go blindly buying Teflon wire, becuase a large
majority of it has a silver plated conductor. Also not the most attractive
for vibration. Teflon coating is fine, but make sure the conductor is tin
plated, not silver plated.
Anyway, I'm forced to sit back and not comment further on this. I think
Greg tried to do a good thing here and the article does provide a ton of
good advice (plus....it's FREE)!! I also can't argue with Bob either -- He's
forgot more about wiring planes than most people will ever know.
Just my 2 cents!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Rick Galati wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>
>
> Listers,
>
> I truly wish I had downloaded this easy to understand booklet
> "Aircraft Wiring for Smart People" before I started into that phase
> of my project. To my mind, the author did an excellent job of making
> the task much easier to comprehend than other documents I have
> attempted to read and he did it without leaning so heavily on theory,
> charts, formulas, etc. I have no connection with the company
> whatsoever, just passing along what I think is a valuable find.
>
> http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A N307R "finishing"
I'm *not* taking sides on this issue, only wish to offer additional food
for thought. Here is a critique of the above referenced article:
http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Aircraft_Wiring_For_Smart_People_Review
ed.pdf
There are several good ways to wire an airplane. The cool part is that
we as experimental builders can do our homework, bounce around various
opinions and ideas, make informed choices, and design our wiring
architecture to be as simple or complex as we want it!
Sam Buchanan
Message 46
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux@bendnet.com>
Trying to find a RV8 with the Number of N888FP I looked up at the
landings site only to find registration pending to someone in Georgia.
Aircraft was assembled by Blue Sky Aviation in Montana and sold to
a private party Appox 6 months ago. Respond off list to:
Mike Comeaux
mcomeaux@bendnet.com
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Have to add my $0.02.
Teflon is NOT a good insulation coating to use unless you treat it with
care. It cold flows. If you have a wire bundle that you have clamped
or otherwise held a little too tightly, the teflon will eventually cold
flow and you will get shorts between wires.
On the other hand, I don't know what Stein has against silver plated
wires. When you solder or crimp them to connector pins it makes little
difference what the copper is or is not plated with. The solder or
crimp makes a gas tight connection in any case. The only problem I have
found with silver plated wires is that they are a little hard to solder
if they have been sitting around for awhile (with the ends stripped -
the part under the insulation is no problem). The exposed silver
tarnishes and makes it hard to solder. Bare copper also does the same.
Tin plated copper doesn't do that.
On the other hand, just buy tin plated Tefzel and avoid all the
potential problems. By the way, Steinair has good prices and his
service is top notch.
The bottom line with this whole thing is that you should always take
anything you read with a grain of salt. Learn/read all you can and form
your own conclusions. Everyone has their own opinions and experiences
and YMMV.
Dick Tasker
Stein Bruch wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
>Unfortunately I've learned the hard way that one can't objectively comment
>about things like that on this list (everything I say gets forwarded back to
>the author, mfg, etc.. by some idiot).
>
>Anyway, the only thing I found in the article that was absolutely wrong was
>this....
>
>"We all know that Tefzel wire is white".......NOT TRUE! I have it in 9
>colors and it can be had in more!
>The article also extoles the virtues of RG-142, while failing to mention
>that RG-400 (while EXACTLY the same price as RG-142) is at least superior in
>the fact that the center conductor is stranded (not solid as in RG-142) and
>is more resistant to vibration and bending.
>
>One last thing. Don't go blindly buying Teflon wire, becuase a large
>majority of it has a silver plated conductor. Also not the most attractive
>for vibration. Teflon coating is fine, but make sure the conductor is tin
>plated, not silver plated.
>
>Anyway, I'm forced to sit back and not comment further on this. I think
>Greg tried to do a good thing here and the article does provide a ton of
>good advice (plus....it's FREE)!! I also can't argue with Bob either -- He's
>forgot more about wiring planes than most people will ever know.
>
>Just my 2 cents!
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>http://www.steinair.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
>Rick Galati wrote:
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>Listers,
>>
>>I truly wish I had downloaded this easy to understand booklet
>>"Aircraft Wiring for Smart People" before I started into that phase
>>of my project. To my mind, the author did an excellent job of making
>>the task much easier to comprehend than other documents I have
>>attempted to read and he did it without leaning so heavily on theory,
>>charts, formulas, etc. I have no connection with the company
>>whatsoever, just passing along what I think is a valuable find.
>>
>>http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/download.php
>>
>>Rick Galati RV-6A N307R "finishing"
>>
>>
>
>
>I'm *not* taking sides on this issue, only wish to offer additional food
>for thought. Here is a critique of the above referenced article:
>
>http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Aircraft_Wiring_For_Smart_People_Review
>ed.pdf
>
>There are several good ways to wire an airplane. The cool part is that
>we as experimental builders can do our homework, bounce around various
>opinions and ideas, make informed choices, and design our wiring
>architecture to be as simple or complex as we want it!
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Re: Aircraft Wiring |
--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com
In a message dated 9/21/2004 9:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
retasker@optonline.net writes:
The exposed silver
tarnishes and makes it hard to solder. Bare copper also does the same.
Tin plated copper doesn't do that.
===============================
However, Tin finishes have the unfortunate tendency to spontaneously grow
whiskers, so I personally would always prefer Silver plating over Tin. Punch
"Tin Whiskers" into any search engine and find a bunch of info on this subject
from the military electronics realm.
PTFE (Teflon) is extruded and sintered over the wire at high temperature so
Silver plating the strands works better here than Tin.
Having said that, all of the wiring in the Bradley is Spec44, which is a Tin
plated polyalkene insulated wire.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs)
Message 49
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| Subject: | Re: fiberglass tips rivet choice |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Steve;
I went the rivet, fill with epoxy microballoon mix, then paint route.
Paint experts will shudder at the thought of differential expansion causing
cracking, etc. but my own experience has been no problem. Looks OK and is
certainly not the "roughest" patch on the airplane. Even the RV-3 (after 12)
years looks OK - not perfect but OK.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> Jim,
>
> Did you paint the tips separately or rivet and then paint?
>
> Steve Zicree
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke@shaw.ca>
> To: <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
>>
>> The short answer is yes, maintenance is easier; but only if you have
>> maintenance to do that realistically requires taking off the wingtips.
>> Otherwise it is 50 to 60 little platenuts or similar to install and an
> equal
>> number of #6 screws to fiddle with, plus added worries about corrosion,
>> water ingress and so on. This can add up to more maintenance and not
>> less.
>>
>> Unless you feel the need to install antennas, strobe light power supplies
>> and the like in the wingtips, there should be almost no reason to want to
>> take the wingtips off. Most nav light and landing light installations do
> not
>> require any special inside access if they are designed with this intent.
>>
>> This is a builders choice. I riveted my RV-3's wingtips on over 10 years
> ago
>> and have felt no need to have done otherwise. My -6A's tips are likewise
>> riveted on per the plans with the CS4-4s.
>>
>> Jim Oke
>> RV-3, RV-6A
>> Wpg, MB
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "linn walters" <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: fiberglass tips rivet choice
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>> >
>> > Here's a question from the truly ignorant. Why are the tips riveted
>> > on? Why not nutplates or Tinnerman nuts and screws? This would make
>> > maintenance a lot easier ..... I just wondered.
>> > Linn
>> >
>> > HCRV6@aol.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
>> >>
>> >>In a message dated 9/21/04 7:27:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>> >>Scott.Will@delta.com writes:
>> >>
>> >><< did you use the blind rivets as supplied (CS4-4) >>
>> >>
>> >>Yes.
>> >>
>> >>Do not archive
>> >>
>> >>Harry Crosby
>> >>Pleasanton, California
>> >>RV-6, final details
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
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