---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/22/04: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - RV-List Digest: 49 Msgs - 09/21/04 -Reply (Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov) 2. 03:29 AM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Doug Gray) 3. 03:49 AM - Re: Tuft Testing the RV wing (Kevin Horton) 4. 03:58 AM - Re: PAINTING THE GAS TANK (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 5. 04:37 AM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Charlie Kuss) 6. 05:41 AM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (linn walters) 7. 06:21 AM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Sims, Doug) 8. 06:32 AM - paint (Glen Matejcek) 9. 08:14 AM - Re: paint (steve zicree) 10. 08:43 AM - Paint (Jim Duckett) 11. 11:54 AM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Jim & Bev Cone) 12. 12:26 PM - Hole for canopy latch (Richard Suffoletto) 13. 03:54 PM - Re: Hole for canopy latch (Richard Tasker) 14. 04:19 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Mike Nellis) 15. 04:42 PM - Re: alternators (lancenewman) 16. 09:10 PM - Re: Aircraft Wiring (Vanremog@aol.com) 17. 10:02 PM - IO-360 with a Bernie Warnke prop (Dave) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:19 AM PST US From: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" Subject: RV-List: RV-List Digest: 49 Msgs - 09/21/04 -Reply (Receipt Notification Requested) --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov" I have been temporarily assigned to a new task force in Indianapolis effective September 22, 2004. All of my fugitive cases have been reassigned to other task force members. If you need to contact the officer assigned to a case, contact Jim Enea at (317) 226-7116 (office) or (317) 281-7502 (cell). For contact concerning a new fugitive case, or collateral leads, contact Supervisor Tom Cassels at (317) 226-6059 or Brian Aldridge at (317) 226-0255. I will check my email and voice mail periodically during this period, or I can be contacted at (317) 281-7503. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:44 AM PST US From: Doug Gray Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray Silver or Nickle plated conductors generally have a 200 degree C max temeperature rating. Tin plated conductors are limited to 150 C. High temps will cause the tin to melt.... ETFE (Tefzel) is more operator friendly and cheaper than PTFE. Both are generally extruded but sometimes wrapped as strips arount the conductors. Both will cold flow. PTFE is a pain because very sharp tooling is necessary to strip the wire, and it takes a skilled operator to avoid cut or nicked strands. It also seems to bond tenaceously to the wire. (At least it is my experience) I do not have the data sheets at hand but IIRC both are equal and remarkable in their ability to withstand environmental duress. Doug Gray > However, Tin finishes have the unfortunate tendency to spontaneously grow > whiskers, so I personally would always prefer Silver plating over Tin. Punch > "Tin Whiskers" into any search engine and find a bunch of info on this subject > from the military electronics realm. > > PTFE (Teflon) is extruded and sintered over the wire at high temperature so > Silver plating the strands works better here than Tin. > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:38 AM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Tuft Testing the RV wing --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > >About the tufts - I'm almost amazed at how the tufts behind the fuel tank >(and the line just outboard of tank) show totally separated airflow all the >way to the front, while the others are straight all the way aft. > - I wonder if there is something tripping the airflow abnormally in the >inboard half of the wing? Wouldn't think it was prop-wash or landing gear >down below. This is characteristic of low aspect ratio non-tapered wings. There is upflow ahead of the wing (assuming subsonic speeds, so the air knows we are coming), which increases the local angle of attack. The amount of upflow is greatest at the wing root, and decreases as you go outboard. Thus the local angle of attack is greatest at the wing root, and decreases towards the wing tip. This causes the stall to start at the wing root, and to progressively move outboard as the angle of attack increases. This is a good characteristic, as it means we get a softer stall than if the whole wing stalled at once, and we maintain good aileron control right up to the stall. These two movies (URLs corrected) clearly show the stall starting inboard, and moving outboard as the angle of attack is increased: http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/tuft%20testing%20RV6%20stalls%20054.mov http://www.miramarcollege.net/programs/avim/faculty/north/tufttests/tuft%20testing%20RV6%20stalls%20055.mov Those two URLs will almost certainly be chopped into two lines. Copy and paste as required to get them working. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" System does not matter. Drying time + anytime you want. Since the sacrificial screw is not stuck to the surface (meaning not screwed down tight but left raised from the surface) when painting, it can be removed anytime. A hair of overspray gets under the screw head which is say... 1/16th raised from the surface when painting. This makes sure there is no line showing when a final painted screw is inserted (can be the scarification screw too) but not enough paint is under the screw to chip it when putting the screw in, or taking it out later. I call the sacrificial screw that because it might get buggered up screwing in and out. But most of mine made it successfully through the entire process correctly. But after taking the tanks off many times with them, some did need to be replaced in the end. Screws can easily be painted by sticking them into a flat piece of cardboard to be painted. Keeps em from flying around while being shot. Paint lots of extras, you will need them. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: PAINTING THE GAS TANK --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 09/20/2004 1:38:22 PM Central Standard Time, mstewart@iss.net writes: On my S8 tanks, I have sacrificial screws which are slightly loose, enough so that paint cant get underneath the head when sprayed, but loose enough that paint wont stick to the head and skin when removed. >>>>>>>> So after painting, how long do you wait before putting in the final screws and tightening them? (using PPG Concept w/CC, may vary by system...) Mark == == == == ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:52 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Gary, Thanks for weighing in on this subject. I'm unfamiliar with Spec 44 or polyalkene insulation. Could you expand on the characteristics of this insulation? Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > >In a message dated 9/21/2004 9:12:58 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >retasker@optonline.net writes: > >The exposed silver >tarnishes and makes it hard to solder. Bare copper also does the same. >Tin plated copper doesn't do that. > > >=============================== > >However, Tin finishes have the unfortunate tendency to spontaneously grow >whiskers, so I personally would always prefer Silver plating over >Tin. Punch >"Tin Whiskers" into any search engine and find a bunch of info on >this subject >from the military electronics realm. > >PTFE (Teflon) is extruded and sintered over the wire at high temperature so >Silver plating the strands works better here than Tin. > >Having said that, all of the wiring in the Bradley is Spec44, which is a Tin >plated polyalkene insulated wire. > >GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:41:43 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Here's the best hints I can give y'all on teflon or tefzel coated wire. I don't know which is better, silver or tin coated or bare copper. They all work. 1. Use a good quality 'automatic stripper' and use the correct 'hole' ...... you need to know the wire size. Cheap strippers won't grip the wire very well and won't pull off the insulation. A razor blade will work here also, but change often. 2. Do you know those rubber boots over alligator clips??? I mean the heavy duty ones, not the stuff on Radio Shack clip leads. If your automatic stripper doesn't pull the insulation all the way off or you use the razor blade, poke the wire up into the small end of the clip lead insulator, squeeze tight (your fingers work OK here) and pull the insulation off. This, so far, is the best insulation remover I've found. Linn Doug Gray wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray > >Silver or Nickle plated conductors generally have a 200 degree C max temeperature rating. >Tin plated conductors are limited to 150 C. High temps will cause the tin to melt.... > >ETFE (Tefzel) is more operator friendly and cheaper than PTFE. Both are generally extruded but >sometimes wrapped as strips arount the conductors. Both will cold flow. > >PTFE is a pain because very sharp tooling is necessary to strip the wire, and it takes a skilled >operator to avoid cut or nicked strands. It also seems to bond tenaceously to the wire. (At least it >is my experience) > >I do not have the data sheets at hand but IIRC both are equal and remarkable in their ability to >withstand environmental duress. > >Doug Gray > > > >>However, Tin finishes have the unfortunate tendency to spontaneously grow >>whiskers, so I personally would always prefer Silver plating over Tin. Punch >>"Tin Whiskers" into any search engine and find a bunch of info on this subject >>from the military electronics realm. >> >>PTFE (Teflon) is extruded and sintered over the wire at high temperature so >>Silver plating the strands works better here than Tin. >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:22 AM PST US From: "Sims, Doug" Subject: RE: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: "Sims, Doug" Strobe Grounding question-- I am wiring my strobe power supply in my rv8 and have it located where the rear battery installation would be located. What is the best way to ground the system. I have it bonded locally on the airframe but question whether I should run it back to the common single point grount location. Doug RV8 Virginia -----Original Message----- From: linn walters [mailto:lwalters2@cfl.rr.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Here's the best hints I can give y'all on teflon or tefzel coated wire. I don't know which is better, silver or tin coated or bare copper. They all work. 1. Use a good quality 'automatic stripper' and use the correct 'hole' ..... you need to know the wire size. Cheap strippers won't grip the wire very well and won't pull off the insulation. A razor blade will work here also, but change often. 2. Do you know those rubber boots over alligator clips??? I mean the heavy duty ones, not the stuff on Radio Shack clip leads. If your automatic stripper doesn't pull the insulation all the way off or you use the razor blade, poke the wire up into the small end of the clip lead insulator, squeeze tight (your fingers work OK here) and pull the insulation off. This, so far, is the best insulation remover I've found. Linn Doug Gray wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray > >Silver or Nickle plated conductors generally have a 200 degree C max temeperature rating. >Tin plated conductors are limited to 150 C. High temps will cause the tin to melt.... > >ETFE (Tefzel) is more operator friendly and cheaper than PTFE. Both are generally extruded but >sometimes wrapped as strips arount the conductors. Both will cold flow. > >PTFE is a pain because very sharp tooling is necessary to strip the wire, and it takes a skilled >operator to avoid cut or nicked strands. It also seems to bond tenaceously to the wire. (At least it >is my experience) > >I do not have the data sheets at hand but IIRC both are equal and remarkable in their ability to >withstand environmental duress. > >Doug Gray > > > >>However, Tin finishes have the unfortunate tendency to spontaneously grow >>whiskers, so I personally would always prefer Silver plating over Tin. Punch >>"Tin Whiskers" into any search engine and find a bunch of info on this subject >>from the military electronics realm. >> >>PTFE (Teflon) is extruded and sintered over the wire at high temperature so >>Silver plating the strands works better here than Tin. >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:15 AM PST US From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: paint --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- Pardon my stupidity, but just recently there was a post about a new line of paints that was being adopted by a truck manufacturer, and I wasn't bright enough to save it or find it in the archives. Could you please repeat that reference? Do not archive gm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:02 AM PST US From: "steve zicree" Subject: Re: RV-List: paint --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" I'm pretty sure it was PPG CCU. I remember the post saying they have something like 900 colors at a cost of about 200 per gallon. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glen Matejcek" Subject: RV-List: paint > --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" > > Hi All- > > Pardon my stupidity, but just recently there was a post about a new line of > paints that was being adopted by a truck manufacturer, and I wasn't bright > enough to save it or find it in the archives. Could you please repeat that > reference? > > Do not archive > > gm > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:40 AM PST US From: Jim Duckett Subject: RV-List: Paint --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Duckett Hi Glen, That was me. The product line is Urotec (prefix AUE) produced by PPG. It is their Commercial Coatings line. It is a single stage acrylic urethane system. They also offer tinted primer in the same line. The primer looks almost as good as the top coat. Jim Duckett ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:36 AM PST US From: "Jim & Bev Cone" Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" There is also a very interesting rebuttal of the critique on the Blue Mountain Discussion Board. Jim Cone 3-Peat Offender ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:26:02 PM PST US From: "Richard Suffoletto" Subject: RV-List: Hole for canopy latch --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Suffoletto" The answer to this question may be obvious but I thought I would ask anyway. The directions say to drill a 5/8 hole for the canopy latch, however, the canopy frame handle mount will not fit through a 5/8 hole. I am assuming it has to go through this hole and does not rest on the inside of the canopy. Perhaps the thickness of the powder coating needs to be allowed for. Can someone clarify for me? Can't be too careful when dealing with the canopy. Thanks Richard ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:41 PM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Hole for canopy latch --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker It needs to go through. I guess they assume that after you drill the 5/8" hole and then use sandpaper to religiously smooth out the inside of the hole, it will be big enough - mine was anyway. Dick Tasker Richard Suffoletto wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Suffoletto" > > >The answer to this question may be obvious but I thought I would ask anyway. The directions say to drill a 5/8 hole for the canopy latch, however, the canopy frame handle mount will not fit through a 5/8 hole. I am assuming it has to go through this hole and does not rest on the inside of the canopy. Perhaps the thickness of the powder coating needs to be allowed for. > >Can someone clarify for me? > >Can't be too careful when dealing with the canopy. > >Thanks > >Richard > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:25 PM PST US From: Mike Nellis Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Mike Nellis And the link would be????? Jim & Bev Cone wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim & Bev Cone" > >There is also a very interesting rebuttal of the critique on the Blue Mountain Discussion Board. > >Jim Cone >3-Peat Offender > > > > -- Mike Nellis Austin, TX CMRA #32 Honda RC51 '97 YZF1000 '47 Stinson 108-2; RV6 (Fuselage) http://bmnellis.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:42:28 PM PST US From: "lancenewman" Subject: Re: RV-List: alternators --> RV-List message posted by: "lancenewman" You can put a blister in the coweling to accomidate the alternator, or get a shorter belt and or trim the mounting arm. The alternator vans sells is the 1987 Suzuki Samari alternator. 55 amp output internally regulated. Internal cooling fans and handles the 7000 rpm turn rate without overheating. Also is small and fits the coweling without a blister. 189.00 at any auto parts store. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shirley Harding" Subject: RV-List: alternators > --> RV-List message posted by: "Shirley Harding" > > Hi all -- any photos or advice on an alternator set-up for an RV6. I've got the Vans brackets and a Bosch alternator but it seems to hit the lower cowl. > > Cheers > Shirley > > RV6 > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:12 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Aircraft Wiring --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 9/22/2004 4:39:02 AM Pacific Daylight Time, chaztuna@adelphia.net writes: Thanks for weighing in on this subject. I'm unfamiliar with Spec 44 or polyalkene insulation. Could you expand on the characteristics of this insulation? ====================================== Some info at _http://www.raychem.com/resources/documents/datasheets/Wire_and_Cable/Spec44wc.pdf_ (http://www.raychem.com/resources/documents/datasheets/Wire_and_Cable/Spec44wc.pdf) GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 719 hrs) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:31 PM PST US From: "Dave" Subject: RV-List: IO-360 with a Bernie Warnke prop --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave" Listers, Just purchased a firewall forward IO-360 core with Bernie Warnke prop included. Is Warnke Airproducts still in business? I found their website, however the phone number list is no longer in service. Is it possible to find out if it is still air worthy? If it isn't I think I will refinish it and put it above my fireplace before my wife changes her mind. I didn't find anything recent in the archives. I plan on putting the engine on an RV-8. Haven't decided which prop to use. Thanks Dave