Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Really Great Pumpkin Festival & Fly-In (Warren Hurd)
2. 08:17 AM - Tampa, FL Area Builders/Flyers? (Matthew Brandes)
3. 08:33 AM - Re: Control Vision EXP BUS (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
4. 09:03 AM - Re: Control Vision EXP BUS (bertrv6@highstream.net)
5. 12:08 PM - Re: FADEC (Kathleen@rv7.us)
6. 12:59 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 (Bob)
7. 01:26 PM - Xcom Saga (Donald Mei)
8. 02:12 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Kathleen@rv7.us)
9. 02:14 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Larry Pardue)
10. 03:03 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (steve zicree)
11. 03:08 PM - Re: Rivet squeezer (Richard Scott)
12. 03:21 PM - Re: Heat Muff Parts (Jim Streit)
13. 03:25 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (steve zicree)
14. 03:26 PM - (no subject) (Bluecavu@aol.com)
15. 03:38 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 (Sam Buchanan)
16. 03:40 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Charlie England)
17. 04:11 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Larry Pardue)
18. 04:42 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (steve zicree)
19. 05:00 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (steve zicree)
20. 05:34 PM - FW: Mounting of Bendix Fuel Servo (Emrath)
21. 06:38 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Jerry Hansen)
22. 06:55 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Sam Buchanan)
23. 07:04 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Doug Rozendaal)
24. 07:38 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (Scott Jackson)
25. 07:41 PM - Grand Canyon airspace (Sam Buchanan)
26. 08:54 PM - Innovative Intake (Jeff Bertsch)
27. 10:53 PM - Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu (steve zicree)
Message 1
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Really Great Pumpkin Festival & Fly-In |
--> RV-List message posted by: Warren Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
Oct. 23rd, Keene NH. (EEN) Really Great Pumpkin Festival & Fly-In.
Hosted by EAA Chapter 1314. Fly-In is held on the same day as the Keene
Pumpkin Festival, Worlds largest collection of lighted pumpkins last
year. Transportation provided. So join us for a hamburger. More info at
http://www.ahyup.com/1314/pumpkin/
Fly-In or drive in and park at the airport. Bring the family and let
them go see the pumpkins while you hang out at the airport. Shuttle bus
every 45 min. We will have food and a TV showing kit aircraft
propaganda. We will be there from 11:00 to 10:00. Have fun & fly safe!
Do not archive
Warren Hurd
RV-9A builder
Message 2
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Tampa, FL Area Builders/Flyers? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
I found myself traveling to Tampa, FL next week with nothing to do on
Wednesday night (Oct. 27th). Any Tampa Bay builders/flyers out there
willing to take me up for a ride (if flying) or want to show off their
project under construction? Hec.. I'd be willing to buck or drive some
rivets. :-)
I arrive at TPA at 4:40pm and will be staying at the Trade Winds Grand
Island Resort.
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Fuselage/Finish)
EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
www.n523rv.com <http://www.n523rv.com/>
Message 3
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Control Vision EXP BUS |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Kevin,
Having worked on GM's voltage regulator program back in the 1960s, I can shed
some light on the mystery of load dump.
Load dump is a term coined by the engineers I worked with, as far as I know
anyway. Here is how a load dump happens. If the alternator is running full
field (that is -- full output) charging the battery or any other load, and if
that load becomes disconnected, the output voltage will soar. The alternator
momentarily acts like a current source and tries to maintain the same current
that it was putting out before the load came unhooked. The voltage can rise as
high as about 80 to 100 volts. Battery connections in cars are notorious for
developing loose connections, and that is what we were trying to protect
against.
Just shutting off the alternator by turning off the field breaker does not
cause a load dump. You will not hurt your electronics by turning off the
alternator, because the field current will decay and then the stator current (and
output voltage) should also decay without a spike.
To learn more about the nature of load dump, we used to simulate it with a
great big knife switch mounted at the edge of a workbench. We would swing a
baseball bat down at the knife switch to open it as quickly as possible. This
made the greatest load dump voltage possible. The electronic devices (at least
the regulator and ignition systems) were designed to withstand 80 volts for
200 milliseconds. Today, avalanche diodes (zeners) in some alternators reduce
this voltage to less than half those numbers. I couldn't tell you if my
alternator (Van's 60 amp) uses this protection or not.
I am familiar with automotive electronic circuits, and I can tell you that
aircraft electronics, particularly low cost radios and intercoms, etc.,
typically are not as robust as electronic systems designed for cars. I would
therefore take all precautions available to turn off the electronics while cranking
the engine. Having said that, I do have my Van's gauges wired direct to the
master buss (through circuit breakers) as called out in the plans, and have not
had any trouble. I do not, however, turn on the radios or other avionics until
the engine is running and the alternator is on line.
Dan Hopper
retired automotive engineer
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying 60 hours since 7/7/04)
In a message dated 10/19/04 5:10:25 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
khorton01@rogers.com writes:
>
> This might not be an EXP BUS problem. There was a long series of
> discussions on the Aeroelectric-List earlier this year about
> alternator "load dump". Apparently if you switch an alternator OFF
> when it is producing a high current, there may be a momentary voltage
> spike on the alternator output. I don't understand all the ins and
> outs of the issue, but perhaps this was what happened here. It might
> be interesting to post your story on the Aeroelectric List.
>
> If this was caused by "load dump", then there must be other variables
> involved too, as I suspect many other flyers have cycled the
> alternator switch when the alternator is producing high load, without
> frying something.
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
> on the road, again :(
>
>
Message 4
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Control Vision EXP BUS |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Quoting Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux@bendnet.com>
> >
> > Dear Listers:
> > I have a problem that maybe everyone else should be made aware of
> > in case you decide to install the Control Vision EXP BUS center. I had
> > Blue Sky Aviation do my electrical and upon initial run up I cycled the
> > Alt switch to check the alternator and blew all the resistors in
> > the following
> > gauges, Tach (Van's) impulse, Both fuel gauges, fuel pressure,
> > oil pressure, oil temp. We called Van's and was told of a probable
> > compatibilty problem with the 60amp internal regulated alternator with
> > use of the EXP BUS system. Has anyone else heard of this? I've heard
> > of some other issues regarding the Bus not sure if related.
>
> This might not be an EXP BUS problem. There was a long series of
> discussions on the Aeroelectric-List earlier this year about
> alternator "load dump". Apparently if you switch an alternator OFF
> when it is producing a high current, there may be a momentary voltage
> spike on the alternator output. I don't understand all the ins and
> outs of the issue, but perhaps this was what happened here. It might
> be interesting to post your story on the Aeroelectric List.
>
> If this was caused by "load dump", then there must be other variables
> involved too, as I suspect many other flyers have cycled the
> alternator switch when the alternator is producing high load, without
> frying something.
> --
> Kevin Horton
> Ottawa, Canada
> on the road, again :(
>
> Mike:
I have the same system, however if your alternator is more than 45amps
the unit have to be modified. You can sent it back and they will do it for
you.
Or you can try doing it yourself, i choose to have they do it.
Call them and they will explain it. you must do this, to avoid this problem..
Bert
rv6a
>
>
Message 5
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
So, there is not much action on FADEC, but a few opinions. I got interested
after flying behind FADEC, which until now, I thought was just a gimmick. I
was amazed (not overstated) at the smoothness of the engine. The egts were
constant and level across the cylinders through 9,000 feet. When throttling
back and pulling the prop back to give me 19 inches and 2300, it went lean
of peak with perfectly balanced cylinders. I can see why it saves fuel,
because it keep optimum mixture throughout the takeoff and climb. I found
it a pleasure to fly and it wasn't bad that it start on the first turn, hot
or cold without priming or fuel pressure relief or any of that.
So that's my opinion. If you buy it as a package, it adds less than $2,000
to the cost of an engine. An engine Mattituck with FADEC is only $300 more
than the engine I was contemplating.
Last year my husband bought me a 350Z for my birthday. At first, I was not
certain I would like the fact that it was an automatic. It's the first
automatic I have ever owned. I've discovered it's much more fun to drive
than the old five speeds I thought I couldn't live without. It has traction
control too, which is much better than opening the door and dragging a foot
:-)
OK, I got my 2 cents worth in. I know there are many of these arguments
around tailwheels, high vs low wings and a whole list of other stuff. The
great thing about building is being able to make it your way. I think my
way just might be FADEC. First, I'm going to go fly one again.
Thanks much though, for sharing your opinions....
Do not archive.
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV-List: FADEC
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
I still don't get why anybody would want FADEC. I'm not knocking it, I just
can't relate to not wanting to control mixture manually. With balanced fuel
injectors, you have a huge band of possible operating conditions -- figure
the band between 150 ROP and 50 LOP gives you a fuel burn spread of a few
gallons per hour. Why not give the operator the control to play around to
suit conditions and personal preference? And you're tellin' me I gotta pay
big bucks to lose that control?
On the other hand, I do have electronic ignition but I do NOT have a "timing
knob" in my cockpit. I understand that electronics work way faster &
smarter than I do. But that's a very granular, real-time adjustment. With
something as non-granular as mixture & prop control, I gotta have my knobs.
8-)
As you can see I don't really get it. But I used to think vacuum systems
were the way to go...so I'm at least open-minded about being convinced that
FADEC is desirable in the first place, let alone worth the price!
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
The price seems a bit hard to reconcile
I hear the argument about losing control of mixture choices. However that is
likely balanced out somewhat with all those moments when the pilot gets
behind mixture management due to unintended mismanagement or other
distractions such as looking out the windows (flying){[;-).
`Supposedly'... The automatic control should keep the mixture and timing in
tight formation regardless of engine load.
So then, modifying prop or engine speed as preferred would still deliver the
best GPH per RPM all the while preserving engine TBO and reducing operating
costs to some (unknown to me)degree.
At present the performance issues may, or may not justify the cost for those
of us that are among bank account challenged. I'll leave the cost versus
performance thing for others wiser than yours truly to deal with.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kathleen@rv7.us>
Subject: RV-List: FADEC
----- Original Message -----
From: <Kathleen@rv7.us>
Subject: RV-List: FADEC
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
>
>
> Seeing there is not much in the archives, I pose the questions:
> How many folks flying with FADEC?
> What do you think of it? (Do it again?)
> What is the down side?
>
> According to Aerosance, there are RVs flying with angle valve 360s and
> FADEC. Does anyone have FADEC on their 200 hp angle valve? How's it
> working.
>
> FADEC costs an arm and a leg. I'm trying to find out if it is worth it..
>
> Thanks to all,
>
> Kathleen Evans
> www.rv7.us
>
>
Message 6
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 |
on opie.wvnet.edu
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Review of DYNON D-10
When I was installing the Dynon I made numerous updates on the
progress. Now that I have installed the system into my A/C and have been
flying with it for over a year, I thought I would share a few of my
observations and OPINIONS on the system.
Airspeed and Altitude works very well, but I have a RMI MicroEncoder and
use that for AS, ALT and VSI. Dynon is hard to read and impossible for me
to find the VSI when inverted, numbers are too small.
Turn and Bank indicator. I do understand how in theory this is suppose to
work, I have yet been able to functionally use it, it seems way too
sensitive or maybe the RV is way too sensitive.
Artificial Horizon. Really cool when it works (which is 97% of the time),
but I have had it drift off during long cross countries. If I had been in
the clouds I would have been in a slow turn. Occasionally it has been off
as much as 10 degrees. I do not have sufficient confidence in it to use it
in IMC.
Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration ( I
could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS. I can not
believe what a painful process calibrating the magnetic system is. You
must download info from the web and a program from Dynon and then connect
your computer/laptop to the Dynon and download to it. Pretty easy if you
have access to a laptop and know what you are doing, for me it is not worth
the effort. Also if you don't know your geographic DIP angle, go search
the WWW.
G-Meter. Works ok, but too small to be seen during acrobatics. I do have
a normal G-meter and use it for Akro.
Volt meter. Works well but it is also duplicated on my Grand Rapids
Technologies Engine Monitor. I do not use the volt meter on the DYNON.
Visual tapes for Airspeed and Altimeter. Really neat, easy to convince FAA
inspector that I have placarded the Airspeeds as required, but in reality I
have never looked at it inflight.
Clock, I like this feature best, I use it for flight time for my pilot
logbook. Engine monitor records all engine and airframe time. In my case
I basically have a $2000 digital clock, the only thing on the Dynon that I
routinely use in flight.
Reliability. Absolutely no problems with this unit at all.
I have thought about adding the AOA, but I wouldn't use it. I know this
has been debated off and on, but I know my RV well enough to tell what the
AOA is without the instrument. If I flew underpowered and over gross, out
of short grass strips with the 50 foot tree, I would have more desire for
an accurate AOA instrument. I consider my RV very light and overpowered
and most of my flying is out of a 150 foot by 7000 foot paved runway.
Overall it is a real neat fun gadget. I love the way you can dim it at
night, too cool. But, I bought the system hoping that I could eliminate
conventional gyros for IFR flight. Because it does drift, I do not have
any confidence in it for IMC. In my case the MicroEncoder makes the
Dynon totally superfluous for VFR flight. Bottom line, if it ever breaks
or fails, I will probably not fix it or replace in kind!
Recommendations:
1. As the only VFR flight instrument, highly recommend.
2. If you need backup VFR or IFR instruments, highly recommend.
3. If you use it as primary IFR instruments, without back up, do not
recommend.
4. If you want to impress all of your buddies with Gee Whiz, High Speed,
Teflon Coated instrument, highly recommend.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 7
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" <don_mei@hotmail.com>
I think what this whole saga shows is that there are plusses and minuses in
dealing with a very small company vs a large company
Small Company (Xcom Radio):
Personalized service
Inconsistent service (If the one guy is gone for legitimate reasons, you
have no support)
Knowledgible assistance
All the institutional knowledge resides in 1 guys head.
flexible warranty/service policy
Large Company (Upsat SL 40, I can't bring myself to say Garmin)
Impersonal Service
Consistent service
Only routed to as knowledgible a person as is necessary.
Many people can help.
inflexible service policy
Don
Message 8
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
Bob,
These are the kinds of "reports" that really add value to this list,
especially for those of us who are still in the decision making stage of
panel design. Thanks for taking the time share your opinions and support
your findings.
Do not archive
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
Review of DYNON D-10
When I was installing the Dynon I made numerous updates on the
progress. Now that I have installed the system into my A/C and have been
flying with it for over a year, I thought I would share a few of my
observations and OPINIONS on the system.
Airspeed and Altitude works very well, but I have a RMI MicroEncoder and
use that for AS, ALT and VSI. Dynon is hard to read and impossible for me
to find the VSI when inverted, numbers are too small.
Turn and Bank indicator. I do understand how in theory this is suppose to
work, I have yet been able to functionally use it, it seems way too
sensitive or maybe the RV is way too sensitive.
Artificial Horizon. Really cool when it works (which is 97% of the time),
but I have had it drift off during long cross countries. If I had been in
the clouds I would have been in a slow turn. Occasionally it has been off
as much as 10 degrees. I do not have sufficient confidence in it to use it
in IMC.
Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration ( I
could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS. I can not
believe what a painful process calibrating the magnetic system is. You
must download info from the web and a program from Dynon and then connect
your computer/laptop to the Dynon and download to it. Pretty easy if you
have access to a laptop and know what you are doing, for me it is not worth
the effort. Also if you don't know your geographic DIP angle, go search
the WWW.
G-Meter. Works ok, but too small to be seen during acrobatics. I do have
a normal G-meter and use it for Akro.
Volt meter. Works well but it is also duplicated on my Grand Rapids
Technologies Engine Monitor. I do not use the volt meter on the DYNON.
Visual tapes for Airspeed and Altimeter. Really neat, easy to convince FAA
inspector that I have placarded the Airspeeds as required, but in reality I
have never looked at it inflight.
Clock, I like this feature best, I use it for flight time for my pilot
logbook. Engine monitor records all engine and airframe time. In my case
I basically have a $2000 digital clock, the only thing on the Dynon that I
routinely use in flight.
Reliability. Absolutely no problems with this unit at all.
I have thought about adding the AOA, but I wouldn't use it. I know this
has been debated off and on, but I know my RV well enough to tell what the
AOA is without the instrument. If I flew underpowered and over gross, out
of short grass strips with the 50 foot tree, I would have more desire for
an accurate AOA instrument. I consider my RV very light and overpowered
and most of my flying is out of a 150 foot by 7000 foot paved runway.
Overall it is a real neat fun gadget. I love the way you can dim it at
night, too cool. But, I bought the system hoping that I could eliminate
conventional gyros for IFR flight. Because it does drift, I do not have
any confidence in it for IMC. In my case the MicroEncoder makes the
Dynon totally superfluous for VFR flight. Bottom line, if it ever breaks
or fails, I will probably not fix it or replace in kind!
Recommendations:
1. As the only VFR flight instrument, highly recommend.
2. If you need backup VFR or IFR instruments, highly recommend.
3. If you use it as primary IFR instruments, without back up, do not
recommend.
4. If you want to impress all of your buddies with Gee Whiz, High Speed,
Teflon Coated instrument, highly recommend.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 9
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
On 10/20/04 3:00 PM, "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net> wrote:
>
> Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
> pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration ( I
> could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
> and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
> indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS.
I know I have pointed this out on the list a number of times, but I keep
seeing it pop up. Commonly used aviation GPS units are utterly incapable of
displaying any sort of heading information at all, much less accurate
heading information. Apparently many people think the distinction between
heading and track is without importance. I disagree. When you commonly fly
in winds like the 30 knots LOE4 participants experienced last weekend, you
notice the difference right away. Track is great for navigation but not
good at all for things like ATC assigned headings.
I recently installed a D10A and am getting pretty good heading information
without the external sensor, it is certainly giving me better heading
information than my GPS. I plan to further fine tune. I agree the
calibration routine is a "real pain" but I have done it several times now
and have it down to about 20 minutes. That is after I picked north and
south points I could use to visually aim at on the ground. I found the air
portion is the trickiest, since I no longer have a vacuum heading indicator.
By picking north and south reference points far away, on the horizon, and
using the angle difference to section lines, I found it to be doable. After
the basic calibration, it is possible to fine tune by adjusting the whole
system a fixed number of degrees + or -. In my case this has allowed me to
reduce the error.
I have also not yet decided if I trust this unit for IFR flight. I have not
had any deviations yet that would have caused a problem, but it will drift
off noticeably in pitch and bank, and pitch, bank, heading and even the
slip/skid ball are sometimes a bit jittery. Certainly different than the
ultra stability of the spinning mechanical gyros.
We'll see.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
Message 10
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Bob,
Thanks so much for the objective review. My primary reason for wanting the
Dynon is for a horizon in case of accidental flight into IMC, but based on
the errors I've read about it seems to be a bit unreliable. I also love acro
flight so I wanted the g-meter, but you say it's too small to use. Let me
ask you, if you could do it over would an electric horizon gyro do the trick
instead?
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>
> Review of DYNON D-10
>
> When I was installing the Dynon I made numerous updates on the
> progress. Now that I have installed the system into my A/C and have been
> flying with it for over a year, I thought I would share a few of my
> observations and OPINIONS on the system.
>
> Airspeed and Altitude works very well, but I have a RMI MicroEncoder and
> use that for AS, ALT and VSI. Dynon is hard to read and impossible for me
> to find the VSI when inverted, numbers are too small.
>
> Turn and Bank indicator. I do understand how in theory this is suppose to
> work, I have yet been able to functionally use it, it seems way too
> sensitive or maybe the RV is way too sensitive.
>
> Artificial Horizon. Really cool when it works (which is 97% of the time),
> but I have had it drift off during long cross countries. If I had been in
> the clouds I would have been in a slow turn. Occasionally it has been off
> as much as 10 degrees. I do not have sufficient confidence in it to use
it
> in IMC.
>
> Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
> pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration
( I
> could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
> and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
> indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS. I can not
> believe what a painful process calibrating the magnetic system is. You
> must download info from the web and a program from Dynon and then connect
> your computer/laptop to the Dynon and download to it. Pretty easy if you
> have access to a laptop and know what you are doing, for me it is not
worth
> the effort. Also if you don't know your geographic DIP angle, go search
> the WWW.
>
> G-Meter. Works ok, but too small to be seen during acrobatics. I do have
> a normal G-meter and use it for Akro.
>
> Volt meter. Works well but it is also duplicated on my Grand Rapids
> Technologies Engine Monitor. I do not use the volt meter on the DYNON.
>
> Visual tapes for Airspeed and Altimeter. Really neat, easy to convince
FAA
> inspector that I have placarded the Airspeeds as required, but in reality
I
> have never looked at it inflight.
>
> Clock, I like this feature best, I use it for flight time for my pilot
> logbook. Engine monitor records all engine and airframe time. In my case
> I basically have a $2000 digital clock, the only thing on the Dynon that I
> routinely use in flight.
>
> Reliability. Absolutely no problems with this unit at all.
>
> I have thought about adding the AOA, but I wouldn't use it. I know this
> has been debated off and on, but I know my RV well enough to tell what the
> AOA is without the instrument. If I flew underpowered and over gross, out
> of short grass strips with the 50 foot tree, I would have more desire for
> an accurate AOA instrument. I consider my RV very light and overpowered
> and most of my flying is out of a 150 foot by 7000 foot paved runway.
>
> Overall it is a real neat fun gadget. I love the way you can dim it at
> night, too cool. But, I bought the system hoping that I could eliminate
> conventional gyros for IFR flight. Because it does drift, I do not have
> any confidence in it for IMC. In my case the MicroEncoder makes the
> Dynon totally superfluous for VFR flight. Bottom line, if it ever breaks
> or fails, I will probably not fix it or replace in kind!
>
> Recommendations:
> 1. As the only VFR flight instrument, highly recommend.
> 2. If you need backup VFR or IFR instruments, highly recommend.
> 3. If you use it as primary IFR instruments, without back up, do not
> recommend.
> 4. If you want to impress all of your buddies with Gee Whiz, High Speed,
> Teflon Coated instrument, highly recommend.
>
>
> Bob
> RV6 NightFighter
>
>
Message 11
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Rivet squeezer |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
First, after a little practice, you learn to get close with guessing. Then
when it is adjusted right, screw it all the way in, counting the number of
turns. Write that on a piece of paper & stick it in with the rivets you
are working from, or write it on whatever you keep them in. Next time, run
it all the way closed, back off the specified number of turns & you will be
right on or real close the first try, every time.
Richard Scott
9A
Message 12
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Heat Muff Parts |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Streit <wooody04@bellsouth.net>
Try Vans
Sounds like the same heat muff that Vans sells.
Jim Streit
90073
Fiveonepw@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>Howdy list-
>
>Anyone know where to get replacement parts for the heat muff Vetterman sends
>with his standard crossover systems? I lost one of the rods with the threaded
>ends that holds the end pieces together. I tried Vetterman but he's still
>not home from LOE.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 13
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
At the risk of sounding really stupid, isn't track info what we really want
anyway? It seems to me that the reason we have historically used heading is
because all we've ever had is compasses and that's all they're capable of.
When ATC tells me to fly heading 180, I'm sure they mean to fly due south,
not point the spinner due south. If I'm missing something (and it's VERY
possible) please let me know.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> On 10/20/04 3:00 PM, "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
> > pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration
( I
> > could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
> > and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
> > indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS.
>
> I know I have pointed this out on the list a number of times, but I keep
> seeing it pop up. Commonly used aviation GPS units are utterly incapable
of
> displaying any sort of heading information at all, much less accurate
> heading information. Apparently many people think the distinction between
> heading and track is without importance. I disagree. When you commonly
fly
> in winds like the 30 knots LOE4 participants experienced last weekend, you
> notice the difference right away. Track is great for navigation but not
> good at all for things like ATC assigned headings.
>
> I recently installed a D10A and am getting pretty good heading information
> without the external sensor, it is certainly giving me better heading
> information than my GPS. I plan to further fine tune. I agree the
> calibration routine is a "real pain" but I have done it several times now
> and have it down to about 20 minutes. That is after I picked north and
> south points I could use to visually aim at on the ground. I found the
air
> portion is the trickiest, since I no longer have a vacuum heading
indicator.
> By picking north and south reference points far away, on the horizon, and
> using the angle difference to section lines, I found it to be doable.
After
> the basic calibration, it is possible to fine tune by adjusting the whole
> system a fixed number of degrees + or -. In my case this has allowed me
to
> reduce the error.
>
> I have also not yet decided if I trust this unit for IFR flight. I have
not
> had any deviations yet that would have caused a problem, but it will drift
> off noticeably in pitch and bank, and pitch, bank, heading and even the
> slip/skid ball are sometimes a bit jittery. Certainly different than the
> ultra stability of the spinning mechanical gyros.
>
> We'll see.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
>
Message 14
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
Anyone know of any people with RV's based in Northern NJ -
CDW, N07, TEB, or MMU?
May God pity the soul of the person who has to operate a recip single out of
TEB... land of the bizjet logjams... the one, the only (thank God) Teterhole!
do not archive
Message 15
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Larry Pardue wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
> On 10/20/04 3:00 PM, "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
>>pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration ( I
>>could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
>>and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
>>indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS.
>
>
> I know I have pointed this out on the list a number of times, but I keep
> seeing it pop up. Commonly used aviation GPS units are utterly incapable of
> displaying any sort of heading information at all, much less accurate
> heading information. Apparently many people think the distinction between
> heading and track is without importance. I disagree. When you commonly fly
> in winds like the 30 knots LOE4 participants experienced last weekend, you
> notice the difference right away. Track is great for navigation but not
> good at all for things like ATC assigned headings.
Larry, I understand what you are saying, but I suspect heading vs track
is not as big an issue as some may think. If ATC gives you "fly heading
of 270" and you then turn to a *track* of 270, if the track needs to be
adjusted ATC will simply request you to "turn 10 degrees left". There
seems to be some slack in the requested headings given by ATC since they
assume the DG may have precessed a little or (gasp) the pilot may be
flying via a GPS track instead of magnetic heading. :-)
When flying a localizer, the GPS may be superior to a magnetic
indication especially when dealing with crosswinds. The pilot with only
a DG has to point the nose off heading in order to correct for the wind
whereas the pilot with a GPS can fly the inbound track of the localizer
once established.
All in all, in my opinion, flying a GPS track instead of a DG heading is
not a big deal in the real world.
>
> I recently installed a D10A and am getting pretty good heading information
> without the external sensor, it is certainly giving me better heading
> information than my GPS. I plan to further fine tune. I agree the
> calibration routine is a "real pain" but I have done it several times now
> and have it down to about 20 minutes. That is after I picked north and
> south points I could use to visually aim at on the ground. I found the air
> portion is the trickiest, since I no longer have a vacuum heading indicator.
> By picking north and south reference points far away, on the horizon, and
> using the angle difference to section lines, I found it to be doable. After
> the basic calibration, it is possible to fine tune by adjusting the whole
> system a fixed number of degrees + or -. In my case this has allowed me to
> reduce the error.
The calibration for the external magnetometer (at least the original
version) is MUCH simpler than for the internal mag. There is no
calibration required in the air, only a "swing" to the four cardinal
points on the ground. The external mag in my RV-6 was easily calibrated
in less than ten minutes and is accurate, as far as I can tell (how DO
you establish a dead-on magnetic heading in the air???) to a couple of
degrees. About the only way I have found to really check the accuracy is
while taxiing on a known heading.
>
> I have also not yet decided if I trust this unit for IFR flight. I have not
> had any deviations yet that would have caused a problem, but it will drift
> off noticeably in pitch and bank, and pitch, bank, heading and even the
> slip/skid ball are sometimes a bit jittery. Certainly different than the
> ultra stability of the spinning mechanical gyros.
The electronic display of the Dynon is certainly different from a
mechanical gyro. It looks different and moves differently. It also has
much higher resolution than a mechanical gyro. While it is very
difficult to see two degrees deflection with a conventional gyro, two
degrees on the Dynon is very noticeable. I see the acclimation to
electronic gyros to be similar to that I encountered when transitioning
from analog needles to the digits on the uEncoder when I first flew my
"instrumentless" RV-6. It is a bit uncomfortable at first, but gradually
the brain gets recalibrated.
It is imperative that suitable backup instrumentation be in the panel if
the decision is made to take any EFIS into the clouds. The form and
quantity of backups depends on the experience, background and
proficiency of the pilot. The IFR pilot needs to fly solely with the
backups frequently to maintain the ability to survive the loss of the
EFIS. It is my contention than an autopilot should be in the panel of
anyone taking an RV into the clouds, not only for safety but to relieve
fatigue.
IFR is IFR, whether "soft" or "hard". Either can kill us.
Sam Buchanan
Message 16
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
There is no reason why the G meter and/or AOA can't be displayed bigger,
even full screen in beautiful living color at the operator's option. Why
don't you current owners lobby Dynon for a software upgrade that will
allow this? (Maybe it will be ready for me by the time I'm ready for
it.) :-)
Charlie
-7 in the oven
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>Bob,
>
>Thanks so much for the objective review. My primary reason for wanting the
>Dynon is for a horizon in case of accidental flight into IMC, but based on
>the errors I've read about it seems to be a bit unreliable. I also love acro
>flight so I wanted the g-meter, but you say it's too small to use. Let me
>ask you, if you could do it over would an electric horizon gyro do the trick
>instead?
>
>Steve Zicree
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>>
>>Review of DYNON D-10
>>
>>When I was installing the Dynon I made numerous updates on the
>>progress. Now that I have installed the system into my A/C and have been
>>flying with it for over a year, I thought I would share a few of my
>>observations and OPINIONS on the system.
>>
>>Airspeed and Altitude works very well, but I have a RMI MicroEncoder and
>>use that for AS, ALT and VSI. Dynon is hard to read and impossible for me
>>to find the VSI when inverted, numbers are too small.
>>
>>Turn and Bank indicator. I do understand how in theory this is suppose to
>>work, I have yet been able to functionally use it, it seems way too
>>sensitive or maybe the RV is way too sensitive.
>>
>>Artificial Horizon. Really cool when it works (which is 97% of the time),
>>but I have had it drift off during long cross countries. If I had been in
>>the clouds I would have been in a slow turn. Occasionally it has been off
>>as much as 10 degrees. I do not have sufficient confidence in it to use
>>
>>
>it
>
>
>>in IMC.
>>
>>Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
>>pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration
>>
>>
>( I
>
>
>>could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
>>and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
>>indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS. I can not
>>believe what a painful process calibrating the magnetic system is. You
>>must download info from the web and a program from Dynon and then connect
>>your computer/laptop to the Dynon and download to it. Pretty easy if you
>>have access to a laptop and know what you are doing, for me it is not
>>
>>
>worth
>
>
>>the effort. Also if you don't know your geographic DIP angle, go search
>>the WWW.
>>
>>G-Meter. Works ok, but too small to be seen during acrobatics. I do have
>>a normal G-meter and use it for Akro.
>>
>>Volt meter. Works well but it is also duplicated on my Grand Rapids
>>Technologies Engine Monitor. I do not use the volt meter on the DYNON.
>>
>>Visual tapes for Airspeed and Altimeter. Really neat, easy to convince
>>
>>
>FAA
>
>
>>inspector that I have placarded the Airspeeds as required, but in reality
>>
>>
>I
>
>
>>have never looked at it inflight.
>>
>>Clock, I like this feature best, I use it for flight time for my pilot
>>logbook. Engine monitor records all engine and airframe time. In my case
>>I basically have a $2000 digital clock, the only thing on the Dynon that I
>>routinely use in flight.
>>
>>Reliability. Absolutely no problems with this unit at all.
>>
>>I have thought about adding the AOA, but I wouldn't use it. I know this
>>has been debated off and on, but I know my RV well enough to tell what the
>>AOA is without the instrument. If I flew underpowered and over gross, out
>>of short grass strips with the 50 foot tree, I would have more desire for
>>an accurate AOA instrument. I consider my RV very light and overpowered
>>and most of my flying is out of a 150 foot by 7000 foot paved runway.
>>
>>Overall it is a real neat fun gadget. I love the way you can dim it at
>>night, too cool. But, I bought the system hoping that I could eliminate
>>conventional gyros for IFR flight. Because it does drift, I do not have
>>any confidence in it for IMC. In my case the MicroEncoder makes the
>>Dynon totally superfluous for VFR flight. Bottom line, if it ever breaks
>>or fails, I will probably not fix it or replace in kind!
>>
>>Recommendations:
>>1. As the only VFR flight instrument, highly recommend.
>>2. If you need backup VFR or IFR instruments, highly recommend.
>>3. If you use it as primary IFR instruments, without back up, do not
>>recommend.
>>4. If you want to impress all of your buddies with Gee Whiz, High Speed,
>>Teflon Coated instrument, highly recommend.
>>
>>
>>Bob
>>RV6 NightFighter
>>
Message 17
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> At the risk of sounding really stupid, isn't track info what we really
> want
> anyway? It seems to me that the reason we have historically used heading
> is
> because all we've ever had is compasses and that's all they're capable of.
> When ATC tells me to fly heading 180, I'm sure they mean to fly due south,
> not point the spinner due south. If I'm missing something (and it's VERY
> possible) please let me know.
>
They mean point the spinner due south (magnetic). That is the meaning of
heading.
Do not archive
Larry Pardue
Message 18
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
I was real excited about the Dynon for my 4 until I started reading about
attitude errors. Now I'm beginning to rethink. Let's face it, the whole idea
of having the artificial horizon is to take over when our senses fail. If
it's no more reliable than my inner ear, then why would I buy it? Imagine
being in hard IMC and not knowing for sure if your indicated bank was off by
10 degrees! Compound this situation with the fact that while this is
happening your senses are telling you stuff that may or may not agree with
the Dynon. The errors I've read of have occured in VMC, so the pilot seemed
pretty relaxed about the situation. Had they occured in the soup, the pilot
might not have even known about it, or worse yet the NTSB might be trying to
figure it out instead of us. I sure don't want to offend anyone who owns
one, and I know they will eventually sort all this out, but I think we
should all face the fact that pitch/bank errors in an attitude instrument
are far more serious than small display characters.
Steve Zicree
RV4 Finishing kit arrived today, lotsa fiberglass : (
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> There is no reason why the G meter and/or AOA can't be displayed bigger,
> even full screen in beautiful living color at the operator's option. Why
> don't you current owners lobby Dynon for a software upgrade that will
> allow this? (Maybe it will be ready for me by the time I'm ready for
> it.) :-)
>
> Charlie
> -7 in the oven
>
>
> steve zicree wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> >
> >Bob,
> >
> >Thanks so much for the objective review. My primary reason for wanting
the
> >Dynon is for a horizon in case of accidental flight into IMC, but based
on
> >the errors I've read about it seems to be a bit unreliable. I also love
acro
> >flight so I wanted the g-meter, but you say it's too small to use. Let me
> >ask you, if you could do it over would an electric horizon gyro do the
trick
> >instead?
> >
> >Steve Zicree
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
> >>
> >>Review of DYNON D-10
> >>
> >>When I was installing the Dynon I made numerous updates on the
> >>progress. Now that I have installed the system into my A/C and have
been
> >>flying with it for over a year, I thought I would share a few of my
> >>observations and OPINIONS on the system.
> >>
> >>Airspeed and Altitude works very well, but I have a RMI MicroEncoder and
> >>use that for AS, ALT and VSI. Dynon is hard to read and impossible for
me
> >>to find the VSI when inverted, numbers are too small.
> >>
> >>Turn and Bank indicator. I do understand how in theory this is suppose
to
> >>work, I have yet been able to functionally use it, it seems way too
> >>sensitive or maybe the RV is way too sensitive.
> >>
> >>Artificial Horizon. Really cool when it works (which is 97% of the
time),
> >>but I have had it drift off during long cross countries. If I had been
in
> >>the clouds I would have been in a slow turn. Occasionally it has been
off
> >>as much as 10 degrees. I do not have sufficient confidence in it to use
> >>
> >>
> >it
> >
> >
> >>in IMC.
> >>
> >>Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
> >>pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration
> >>
> >>
> >( I
> >
> >
> >>could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the weather
> >>and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the heading
> >>indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS. I can
not
> >>believe what a painful process calibrating the magnetic system is. You
> >>must download info from the web and a program from Dynon and then
connect
> >>your computer/laptop to the Dynon and download to it. Pretty easy if
you
> >>have access to a laptop and know what you are doing, for me it is not
> >>
> >>
> >worth
> >
> >
> >>the effort. Also if you don't know your geographic DIP angle, go search
> >>the WWW.
> >>
> >>G-Meter. Works ok, but too small to be seen during acrobatics. I do
have
> >>a normal G-meter and use it for Akro.
> >>
> >>Volt meter. Works well but it is also duplicated on my Grand Rapids
> >>Technologies Engine Monitor. I do not use the volt meter on the DYNON.
> >>
> >>Visual tapes for Airspeed and Altimeter. Really neat, easy to convince
> >>
> >>
> >FAA
> >
> >
> >>inspector that I have placarded the Airspeeds as required, but in
reality
> >>
> >>
> >I
> >
> >
> >>have never looked at it inflight.
> >>
> >>Clock, I like this feature best, I use it for flight time for my pilot
> >>logbook. Engine monitor records all engine and airframe time. In my
case
> >>I basically have a $2000 digital clock, the only thing on the Dynon that
I
> >>routinely use in flight.
> >>
> >>Reliability. Absolutely no problems with this unit at all.
> >>
> >>I have thought about adding the AOA, but I wouldn't use it. I know this
> >>has been debated off and on, but I know my RV well enough to tell what
the
> >>AOA is without the instrument. If I flew underpowered and over gross,
out
> >>of short grass strips with the 50 foot tree, I would have more desire
for
> >>an accurate AOA instrument. I consider my RV very light and overpowered
> >>and most of my flying is out of a 150 foot by 7000 foot paved runway.
> >>
> >>Overall it is a real neat fun gadget. I love the way you can dim it at
> >>night, too cool. But, I bought the system hoping that I could eliminate
> >>conventional gyros for IFR flight. Because it does drift, I do not have
> >>any confidence in it for IMC. In my case the MicroEncoder makes the
> >>Dynon totally superfluous for VFR flight. Bottom line, if it ever
breaks
> >>or fails, I will probably not fix it or replace in kind!
> >>
> >>Recommendations:
> >>1. As the only VFR flight instrument, highly recommend.
> >>2. If you need backup VFR or IFR instruments, highly recommend.
> >>3. If you use it as primary IFR instruments, without back up, do not
> >>recommend.
> >>4. If you want to impress all of your buddies with Gee Whiz, High
Speed,
> >>Teflon Coated instrument, highly recommend.
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob
> >>RV6 NightFighter
> >>
>
>
Message 19
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
I'm aware that the ATC instruction means to point the plane south and that's
how I've always done it, but isn't their DESIRE to actually get me to track
south? Of course, they can't ask me to do that because I'm using a compass.
Now, if they ask me to fly heading 180 and, because of wind, my track
deviates significantly from 180 they're just going to give me an adjusted
heading anyway. I guess my point was that the system of assigned headings is
sort of antiquated in light of the GPS. I'm guessing that at some point in
the future we might just dispense with heading altogether and just think in
terms of track. However, for now I'll point my "spinner" where I'm told.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> >
> > At the risk of sounding really stupid, isn't track info what we really
> > want
> > anyway? It seems to me that the reason we have historically used heading
> > is
> > because all we've ever had is compasses and that's all they're capable
of.
> > When ATC tells me to fly heading 180, I'm sure they mean to fly due
south,
> > not point the spinner due south. If I'm missing something (and it's VERY
> > possible) please let me know.
> >
>
> They mean point the spinner due south (magnetic). That is the meaning of
> heading.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Larry Pardue
>
>
Message 20
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | FW: Mounting of Bendix Fuel Servo |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
I'm reposting my reply from the other day because I've not received a
response to this. Surely someone has "gone there" before me and could
answer some of my questions.......please. If you have this set up and don't
have pictures, please email me your phone number and I'll call you.
Do not archive
Marty
-----Original Message-----
From: Emrath [mailto:emrath@comcast.net]
Subject: Mounting of Bendix Fuel Servo
Does anyone have some pictures of their Vertical mounting of a Bendix F.I.
Servo on the bottom of the sump as well as some shots of how they did their
FAB? Could also use some picture of the fuel line runs, from firewall to
engine pump, to fuel servo to distributor (mine is already mounted and lines
to cylinders installed. I am finally to that point and could use a few
pictures, as they are worth a thousand words. Thanks, just sent them
directly to me or point me to a web site.
Marty in Brentwood TN
Message 21
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
If you have a GPS coupled autopilot capable of tracking a GPS course, this
conundrum is easily resolved. Just adjust the autopilot course until the DG
or compass shows the proper heading and let it fly that course (which, in a
crosswind, will be different than the displayed heading). It's even easier
if your autopilot has what is variously called "Pilot Command Steering" or
"Control Wheel Steering". In this case, you just press the autopilot
release button and manually fly the aircraft to the proper heading and
release the button. The autopilot will then fly the new course, which has
been derived from pointing the airplane toward the desired heading.
That might sound a bit confusing, but it's really quite easy when you've
done it a couple of times.
Jerry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve zicree
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
I'm aware that the ATC instruction means to point the plane south and that's
how I've always done it, but isn't their DESIRE to actually get me to track
south? Of course, they can't ask me to do that because I'm using a compass.
Now, if they ask me to fly heading 180 and, because of wind, my track
deviates significantly from 180 they're just going to give me an adjusted
heading anyway. I guess my point was that the system of assigned headings is
sort of antiquated in light of the GPS. I'm guessing that at some point in
the future we might just dispense with heading altogether and just think in
terms of track. However, for now I'll point my "spinner" where I'm told.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> >
> > At the risk of sounding really stupid, isn't track info what we really
> > want
> > anyway? It seems to me that the reason we have historically used heading
> > is
> > because all we've ever had is compasses and that's all they're capable
of.
> > When ATC tells me to fly heading 180, I'm sure they mean to fly due
south,
> > not point the spinner due south. If I'm missing something (and it's VERY
> > possible) please let me know.
> >
>
> They mean point the spinner due south (magnetic). That is the meaning of
> heading.
>
> Do not archive
>
> Larry Pardue
>
>
Message 22
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
steve zicree wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> I was real excited about the Dynon for my 4 until I started reading about
> attitude errors. Now I'm beginning to rethink. Let's face it, the whole idea
> of having the artificial horizon is to take over when our senses fail. If
> it's no more reliable than my inner ear, then why would I buy it? Imagine
> being in hard IMC and not knowing for sure if your indicated bank was off by
> 10 degrees!
This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the more vocal
reporters of Dynon's glitches. He also stated the concerns you have but
I reminded him that having an EFIS does not relieve the pilot of
maintaining a proper instrument scan!!!!!!!
When I have seen my Dynon leaning about five degrees, a quick glance at
the heading tape instantly told me whether the AHRS was having a bad day
or the plane was actually banking. If the horizon tilts a little and the
heading tape is stable, it is an AHRS error. If the heading tape is
gradually scrolling the same direction, the AHRS is correct and the
plane is turning. If the heading tape is scrolling the opposite
direction...........it is time to check the backup instruments!
Having a fancy piece of glass in the panel doesn't mean that we now can
become zombies with no situational awareness. *ALL* the indications in
the EFIS display need to be constantly compared to make sure nothing
crazy in happening in the electronics. This means airspeed is compared
to VSI and altitude, and heading is compared to the horizon......all the
time!
The individual with whom I had the conversation admitted he had never
considered the need to scan the various components of the Dynon in order
to sort out possible errors.
Compound this situation with the fact that while this is
> happening your senses are telling you stuff that may or may not agree with
> the Dynon. The errors I've read of have occured in VMC, so the pilot seemed
> pretty relaxed about the situation. Had they occured in the soup, the pilot
> might not have even known about it,
Not if a proper scan was used! And if in IMC, the backup instruments
better be in the scan, too.
An EFIS means the pilot has to be a smarter pilot, not a lazier
pilot.........the ground is just as hard and unforgiving regardless of
what kind of instruments grace the panel.
Rant off............
Sam Buchanan
Message 23
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
All,
I have flown my D-10 for over a year now. I fly mine IFR. What some would
call "hard IFR" but I agree with the statement, IFR is IFR.
The Dynon is not perfect. Neither is a Vacuum Gyro. Anyone who is flying
IFR in an RV should be pretty current. The Dynon makes it easier. My Dynon
get the wobbles every now and then, but I have never seen an excursion on
mine that would preclude me from keeping my airplane right side up.
For VMC a Dynon is all you need. But NO ONE SHOULD FLY IMC without backup
to the Dynon. Airspeed, altitude, and a turn and bank, better yet turn &
bank autopilot as a minimum.
On the subject of autopilots, I have said for years, here and in other
venues, that anyone who was unwilling to fly IFR without an autopilot should
not be flying IFR. After a year and a half of IFR RV flying, I have
tempered my tone. I would have to think long and hard about flying my RV
IFR without the A/P If it was a "clear above" operation maybe, but I would
not want to fly for 2+30 IMC and then shoot an approach in an RV without an
Autopilot......
I think the Dynon is a great device and I am sure it will get better, but I
am satisified with mine, And when (not if) you have an Vacuum problem IMC,
a weeks wages says you would never fly without a Dynon again.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Message 24
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott@telus.net>
YOu bring up a good point, and one that Boeing considered way back in the
design of the 767, which raised the bar very high in the man/machine
relationship, and one could tell that they'd consulted the right people( and
paid attention to them) in every aspect of its design.
The electronic nav display on the 767 has "track up", meaning track is
always what's under the lubber line at the twelve o'clock position on the
compass rose.
Like most pilots, I wondered how hard it would be to adapt to the new
orientation, but my concerns were for naught.
Within a couple of minutes of first exposure, everyone was completely sold
on the display. It became so obvious that heading had forever been just a
trial-and-error method to get a desired ground track, and, now that we knew
what the track was, the actual heading quickly became irrelevant.
The only change that required an adjustment for us was when we were holding
a vector, in that we had to watch both the heading bug and now the heading
indicator, which could be either directly under, or either side, of the
lubber line depending on drift angle. Crossing a 200+ knot jetstream at
altitude, the heading indicator would be almost off the screen to the side.
The other adjustment was remembering to adjust the picture of where the
runway would be due to drift angle when breaking out on a low-viz approach.
Interestingly, in airline operations, the next move is to True instead of
Magnetic, and the same historical reference you make is relevant here,too.
We've always used magnetic, because it was all we could sense. Over the
ocean, where we running from Latitude to Latitude, we used to have to apply
variation to the desired true direction, and it could be quite large and
rapidly changing as we traversed the meridians of Longitude.For example, if
we were tracking from 50North to 50North, the true would of course be either
090 or 270-ignoring convergence-but our desired magnetic direction could be
20 degrees or more either side of that depending on variation.
Your position is correct: if we know our track, then the heading becomes
irrelevant, and if we know it in True, then eventually the magnetic value
will also be irrelevant.
Even if we can display True Track, runway headings on SIDS, etc., remain
magnetic headings except way up North.
Scott in Vancouver
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> At the risk of sounding really stupid, isn't track info what we really
> want
> anyway? It seems to me that the reason we have historically used heading
> is
> because all we've ever had is compasses and that's all they're capable of.
> When ATC tells me to fly heading 180, I'm sure they mean to fly due south,
> not point the spinner due south. If I'm missing something (and it's VERY
> possible) please let me know.
>
> Steve Zicree
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: Larry Pardue <n5lp@warpdriveonline.com>
>>
>> On 10/20/04 3:00 PM, "Bob" <panamared3@brier.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Magnetic heading, I did install the remote sensor, and that was a real
>> > pain. I have yet to get a laptop computer to do all of the calibration
> ( I
>> > could borrow one, but coordinating the loan of the computer, the
>> > weather
>> > and when I am available is too hard to do). So I do not use the
>> > heading
>> > indicator. Anyway, I doubt it would be as accurate as the GPS.
>>
>> I know I have pointed this out on the list a number of times, but I keep
>> seeing it pop up. Commonly used aviation GPS units are utterly incapable
> of
>> displaying any sort of heading information at all, much less accurate
>> heading information. Apparently many people think the distinction
>> between
>> heading and track is without importance. I disagree. When you commonly
> fly
>> in winds like the 30 knots LOE4 participants experienced last weekend,
>> you
>> notice the difference right away. Track is great for navigation but not
>> good at all for things like ATC assigned headings.
>>
>> I recently installed a D10A and am getting pretty good heading
>> information
>> without the external sensor, it is certainly giving me better heading
>> information than my GPS. I plan to further fine tune. I agree the
>> calibration routine is a "real pain" but I have done it several times now
>> and have it down to about 20 minutes. That is after I picked north and
>> south points I could use to visually aim at on the ground. I found the
> air
>> portion is the trickiest, since I no longer have a vacuum heading
> indicator.
>> By picking north and south reference points far away, on the horizon, and
>> using the angle difference to section lines, I found it to be doable.
> After
>> the basic calibration, it is possible to fine tune by adjusting the whole
>> system a fixed number of degrees + or -. In my case this has allowed me
> to
>> reduce the error.
>>
>> I have also not yet decided if I trust this unit for IFR flight. I have
> not
>> had any deviations yet that would have caused a problem, but it will
>> drift
>> off noticeably in pitch and bank, and pitch, bank, heading and even the
>> slip/skid ball are sometimes a bit jittery. Certainly different than the
>> ultra stability of the spinning mechanical gyros.
>>
>> We'll see.
>>
>> Larry Pardue
>> Carlsbad, NM
>>
>> RV-6 N441LP Flying
>> http://n5lp.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | Grand Canyon airspace |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Here is info about a superb web site that details the airspace around
Grand Canyon National Park.
Sam Buchanan
===============================
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/west_trip.html
From: Michael_Ebersole@nps.gov
Dear Mr. Buchanan: I just read about your trip out west in February
2000 and it sounded like a marvelous adventure. In case it helps in the
future, I wanted to let you know that a new website was launched this
year that helps explain how to navigate the Grand Canyon airspace
http://www.grandcanyonairspace.iat.gov
Sincerely,
Michael J. Ebersole
Grand Canyon National Park
Website: www.nps.gov/grca
Message 26
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Innovative Intake |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd@yahoo.com>
The ram air intake on our RV4 works very well, however, I believe that it is way
too large -- 5 inch diameter opening, 7 inch outside diameter. The drag reduction
penalty is too large for the gain in manifold pressure. So I would like
to redesign the intake.
It has an Airflow Performance fuel injection with a forward facing ram intake.
I like the Van's design that has an intake filter in the baffling just forward
of the #4 cylinder, but after close inspection, I don't believe there is enough
room in our tightly cowled RV4 to do that. There is only about 3 inches of
baffling available (compared to about 5 - 6 inches in the RV8), and the cowling
cheek rakes back at a steep angle, leaving no room for an airbox or even a
simple duct.
I don't believe the standard lower scoop and airbox will work with this Airflow
Performance intake.
So what do you suggest? Does anyone have any innovative intake designs for this
configuration - RV-4, Airflow Performance, very tight cowl.
Here is a link to some pictures of the cowling and our RV-4. Note that the link
is longer than one line so may need to cut and past.
http://www.cartogra.com/servlet/com.hp.HPGuestLogin?username=mach25&password=83485262
Thanks for your expertise
Jeff Bertsch
www.lonestarsquadron.com
---------------------------------
Message 27
| INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
| LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
| SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
| Subject: | Re: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Again, I didn't mean to say the Dynon is a bad idea, I just think that an
attitude instrument should be a bit more robust. Suppose you bought an R.C.
Allen electric gyro and found that it lied by 10 degrees in pitch and/or
bank whenever it felt like it. I think most of us would take it back and
bitch up a storm if they didn't take care of it. Bear in mind that the Dynon
website and other advertising makes no mention of these problems even though
they seem to be fairly common. You're 100% right about proper scan technique
and having backups, but I want an attitude indicator to possibly save my
butt if for some crazy unforeseen reason I fly into IMC. Now many will say
that there's no excuse for a VFR pilot doing that, but we all know it
happens to people all the time and I refuse to believe that they're all
idiots. For my intended use, I'm just trying to decide whether a Dynon makes
sense, or should I spend the money on a good electric gyro. I guess I sort
of look at it like a fire extinguisher; unlikely I'll need it, but if I do,
I want it to work perfectly.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Review of Dynon D-10 on opie.wvnet.edu
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> steve zicree wrote:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> >
> > I was real excited about the Dynon for my 4 until I started reading
about
> > attitude errors. Now I'm beginning to rethink. Let's face it, the whole
idea
> > of having the artificial horizon is to take over when our senses fail.
If
> > it's no more reliable than my inner ear, then why would I buy it?
Imagine
> > being in hard IMC and not knowing for sure if your indicated bank was
off by
> > 10 degrees!
>
> This reminds me of a conversation I had with one of the more vocal
> reporters of Dynon's glitches. He also stated the concerns you have but
> I reminded him that having an EFIS does not relieve the pilot of
> maintaining a proper instrument scan!!!!!!!
>
> When I have seen my Dynon leaning about five degrees, a quick glance at
> the heading tape instantly told me whether the AHRS was having a bad day
> or the plane was actually banking. If the horizon tilts a little and the
> heading tape is stable, it is an AHRS error. If the heading tape is
> gradually scrolling the same direction, the AHRS is correct and the
> plane is turning. If the heading tape is scrolling the opposite
> direction...........it is time to check the backup instruments!
>
> Having a fancy piece of glass in the panel doesn't mean that we now can
> become zombies with no situational awareness. *ALL* the indications in
> the EFIS display need to be constantly compared to make sure nothing
> crazy in happening in the electronics. This means airspeed is compared
> to VSI and altitude, and heading is compared to the horizon......all the
> time!
>
> The individual with whom I had the conversation admitted he had never
> considered the need to scan the various components of the Dynon in order
> to sort out possible errors.
>
> Compound this situation with the fact that while this is
> > happening your senses are telling you stuff that may or may not agree
with
> > the Dynon. The errors I've read of have occured in VMC, so the pilot
seemed
> > pretty relaxed about the situation. Had they occured in the soup, the
pilot
> > might not have even known about it,
>
> Not if a proper scan was used! And if in IMC, the backup instruments
> better be in the scan, too.
>
> An EFIS means the pilot has to be a smarter pilot, not a lazier
> pilot.........the ground is just as hard and unforgiving regardless of
> what kind of instruments grace the panel.
>
> Rant off............
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|