Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:16 AM - Re: Too many lists? (Aaron Frechette)
2. 05:12 AM - Re: Too many lists? (Larry Bowen)
3. 05:15 AM - Re: Too many lists? (Larry Bowen)
4. 05:31 AM - Re: Too many lists? (Trampas)
5. 06:35 AM - (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
6. 06:44 AM - Re: Too many lists? (Tedd McHenry)
7. 06:56 AM - > Re:Canopy Latch Rods (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
8. 07:21 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
9. 07:48 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Charlie England)
10. 08:13 AM - Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods (Randy Lervold)
11. 08:20 AM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Too many lists? (Chris Krieg)
12. 08:23 AM - Diesel (Michael Duran)
13. 08:40 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
14. 09:31 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (John Danielson)
15. 09:35 AM - Re: Diesel (Kathleen@rv7.us)
16. 09:46 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
17. 09:54 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
18. 10:24 AM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Alex Peterson)
19. 10:41 AM - Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods (RV6 Flyer)
20. 10:44 AM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Trio/Altrak pictures? (Jerry Hansen)
21. 11:15 AM - Re: Diesel (Konrad Werner)
22. 11:21 AM - Re: Diesel (Tracy Crook)
23. 11:50 AM - Re: Diesel (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
24. 11:52 AM - Re: Diesel (Kathleen@rv7.us)
25. 12:21 PM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Jerry Calvert)
26. 01:00 PM - Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim (cgalley)
27. 01:02 PM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Alfred Klewin)
28. 02:08 PM - Re: Rv8 - Canopy Frame Hole Location Tip (Improved) (Vince Himsl)
29. 02:48 PM - Re: Diesel (Kevin Horton)
30. 03:20 PM - SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER (J. R. Dial)
31. 03:41 PM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (cgalley)
32. 03:42 PM - Re: Too many lists? (Larry Bowen)
33. 04:32 PM - Re: Putting Air In Tires... (Ernest Kells)
34. 04:38 PM - Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim (Bluecavu@aol.com)
35. 04:55 PM - RV8 Wanted (John Furey)
36. 05:26 PM - Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods (Randy Lervold)
37. 05:26 PM - Re: Diesel (Konrad Werner)
38. 05:26 PM - Re: Diesel (Konrad Werner)
39. 05:30 PM - Re: SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
40. 05:38 PM - Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim (Kevin Horton)
41. 05:45 PM - Slider Tip-Up Mod (Tony Marshall)
42. 05:45 PM - Re: Diesel (Brian Kraut)
43. 05:58 PM - Re: Diesel (Kevin Horton)
44. 06:28 PM - Re: Diesel (Kevin Horton)
45. 06:51 PM - Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods (steve zicree)
46. 07:32 PM - Re: RV8 Wanted (Evan and Megan Johnson)
47. 07:42 PM - Re: Too many lists? (Scott VanArtsdalen)
48. 07:55 PM - Re: Canopy Latch Rods (Scott VanArtsdalen)
49. 08:03 PM - Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? ()
50. 08:04 PM - Re: Too many lists? (Aaron Frechette)
51. 08:18 PM - Re: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? (Stein Bruch)
52. 09:07 PM - RV 10 Fwd Fuselage Floor Rib (Eustace Bowhay)
53. 09:28 PM - Re: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? (923te)
54. 10:08 PM - Root Fairings for RV4 (steve zicree)
55. 11:15 PM - Re: Too many lists? (Mickey Coggins)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Too many lists? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aaron Frechette" <right-stuff@comcast.net>
Kysh,
Based on your comments, I get the impression that you have not used the "web
board" type discussion forums a whole lot. In the relm of some of my other
hobbies, I have been on some great web boards. I find this technology to be
much more up-to-date. There's more to it than "cute little smiley faces and
dopey user pics". Mailing lists are a relic of old school internet
practices that were in place before the current message board technologies
were available. I agree with Randy, there are some shortcomings to the
crude forums that seem to be popular among RV'rs. His list of needs
resonates with my own feelings on the subject.
To quote Randy:
"1. Message presentation by thread or by date
2. Option for web browsing or individual e-mails sent
3. Good search functionality
4. Good categorization
5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages
6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery
7. Ability to post & store files someplace central"
Another important feature seen on current message boards, is the ability to
view an entire thread with having to deal with a smattering of disconnected
email blurbs. These features are all about, as you say, content. Get out
of the past! There is more to life than email lists cluttering your inbox.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have a limited amout of time to
devote to this hobby and having the message board features listed above
would allow me to filter the noise more effectively, thus leaving more time
for deburring, priming, pounding rivets, wiring, whatever... On a good
message board, you can look at the current threads, and select the ones that
you are interested in, instead of having EVERY SINGLE inane thread appear in
your inbox.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kysh" <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
>
> As Randy Lervold was saying:
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> >
> > <snip blah blah blah>
>
> Yeah, every mailing list has been seeing this crap for the past few years,
ever
> since a lot of technically ignorant people arrived on the internet and
decided
> that it should be run their way.
>
> Literally, your message is almost a carbon copy of the common arguments
used for
> http-based system. It get tiring hearing them after a while. It remind me
of the
> whole reply-to-lists reply-to-sender debate.
>
> If people need cute little smiley faces and dopey user pics, by all means,
use
> your web board. If people are actually in it for the content, mailing
lists are,
> and always will be, the way to go.
>
> Not all information can be or should be consolidated.
>
> Do not archive
> -Kysh
> --
>
>
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yeah, but it's also about efficency. How many times have you said to
yourself, or heard others say "Someone posted a tip about how to best do the
kanooter valve, but I can't remember which list it was on, and now I can't
find it!" In the good 'ol days you searched one list, Matt's RV-List. The
collective wisdom use to be in one spot...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Springer [mailto:jsflyrv@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:42 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> You all miss the point, it is still a free country here in
> the US anyway so anyone can start a list that wants to.
> The secret is to just join the one you want, and forget the
> others. I have no desire to go to all the offbeat list that
> get started out there and I only frequent Dougs list and
> Matts list. There is all the RV info I could ever want or
> need on these two excellent lists. If there is something on
> the other lists and I miss it so what I don't care. Just
> because someone starts a list does not mean I have join it.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
> Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> >
> >Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with
> Terry, what the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system
> with all the features we all need, and I'll get to that
> below. Having been on most of these lists since 1997 I can
> tell you that Terry's recap of the history is accurate but
> doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked up the whole
> YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the
> World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio
> abandoned the RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply
> intended to be a "white pages" of RV builders, then he added
> more features, set up lists for all the specific RV models,
> began adding advertising, added fresh RV-related news each
> week, and it has evolved into what is today the most active
> RV site in the world. Further, early on he established a
> relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial
> blessing. Of course Van's might be expected to manage an
> online community themselves have never had inter!
> e!
> >st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits.
> Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative with
> his new format.
> >
> >So, now we have the following lists...
> >
> >-The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The
> YahooGroups
> >lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called
> www.rvaero.com -Another
> >startup called www.rivetbangers.com -Others I've seen but can't
> >remember
> >
> >Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform of each...
> >
> >Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that
> Matt has coded himself. This means that if you're a member
> you simply get a bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has
> added a web-based browse feature, again that he wrote, but
> frankly it doesn't compare IMHO to the commercial bbs
> engines out there. This system is free but it is suggested to
> make an annual donation if you are a regular. Formating
> options are non-existent.
> >
> >The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on
> offers more features than the Matronics system, but also has
> some limitations and is definitely not state-of-the-art. All
> YahooGroups are free, they pay for it with ads that appear at
> various places. As with the Matronics system, Doug has set up
> both an all purpose list as well as model-specific lists.
> Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse
> the messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of
> individual messages. Formatting options are weak.
> >
> >Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board
> system and is completely web based. You never receive
> individual messages unless you have it set to send you one
> when someone responds to one of your posts. Personally, I
> really like this system best because my mailbox does not get
> flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser
> presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a few
> options for customizing your view as well fairly robust
> formatting of messages, including the ability to attach files
> and pictures. The pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not
> sure how they generate revenue, perhaps someone can provide
> that information.
> >
> >RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but
> after just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system.
> They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not clear
> to me if they intend to start charging for membership or not.
> >
> >Now let's talking about something very important:
> management. Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to
> be excellent managers with the best interest of the RV
> community in mind at all times. They have both demonstrated
> that they are willing to devote the time necessary, and have
> the technical skills required. RVaero.com seems anonomous, I
> can't find the name of the webmaster anywhere so I have no
> idea what this person's motivation or agenda is.
> Rivetbangers.com indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson,
> Dave Bunting, and Ron Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as
> to their motivation or agenda.
> >
> >Now, what do we need in an online forum?
> >1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for
> web browsing
> >or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search functionality 4. Good
> >categorization 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages 6.
> >Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post &
> >store files someplace central
> >
> >
> >Off soap box now.
> >
> >Randy Lervold, now building second RV
> >www.rv-3.com
> >www.rv-8.com
> >Vice President EAA Chapter 105
> >EAA Technical Counselor
> >EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Terry Watson
> > To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
> >
> >
> > OK, here's a different perspective:
> >
> >
> > When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there
> was one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV
> list. It had been going for quite some time before I
> discovered RV's. I had been building for a few months when
> one of the RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine
> reservist in New Jersey if I remember right, decided that it
> would be nice to have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all
> RVs. At the very same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics
> RV list if we would like to have a separate list for each
> model. Then there was some discussion about whether there
> should be only one RV-8 list, and if that should be Matronics
> or the Yahoo list. This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on
> Yahoo and another by Matronics. Eventually the man in New
> Jersey who had started the Yahoo list decided he was more
> interested in his new motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he
> sold the RV-8 project and passed the list on to someone else
> to administer. Then and now, I much preferred!
> !
> >the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if
> it had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are
> far more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you
> only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss
> a lot of useful information.
> >
> >
> > Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep
> creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their
> list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged
> by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling
> reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on
> line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8
> builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all
> you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's,
> and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior
> XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain
> EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel
> guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want
> someone to start an RV-8A list.
> >
> >
> > You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one
> and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over
> the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO
> is going to "shut the others down"?
> >
> >
> > Terry Watson
> >
> > RV-8A #80729 wiring
> >
> > Seattle
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
The one downside, IMO, of the PHPbb lists is you can't opt to have ALL posts
sent to your email address. I've seen a couple of add-on or hack attempts
to do this, but the last time I checked this was still a deficiency of the
PHPbb-style lists...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@romeolima.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:20 PM
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com;
> vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with
> Terry, what the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system
> with all the features we all need, and I'll get to that
> below. Having been on most of these lists since 1997 I can
> tell you that Terry's recap of the history is accurate but
> doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked up the whole
> YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the
> World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio
> abandoned the RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply
> intended to be a "white pages" of RV builders, then he added
> more features, set up lists for all the specific RV models,
> began adding advertising, added fresh RV-related news each
> week, and it has evolved into what is today the most active
> RV site in the world. Further, early on he established a
> relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial
> blessing. Of course Van's might be expected to manage an
> online community themselves have never had intere!
> st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits.
> Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative with
> his new format.
>
> So, now we have the following lists...
>
> -The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The
> YahooGroups lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called
> www.rvaero.com -Another startup called www.rivetbangers.com
> -Others I've seen but can't remember
>
> Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform of each...
>
> Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that
> Matt has coded himself. This means that if you're a member
> you simply get a bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has
> added a web-based browse feature, again that he wrote, but
> frankly it doesn't compare IMHO to the commercial bbs
> engines out there. This system is free but it is suggested to
> make an annual donation if you are a regular. Formating
> options are non-existent.
>
> The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on
> offers more features than the Matronics system, but also has
> some limitations and is definitely not state-of-the-art. All
> YahooGroups are free, they pay for it with ads that appear at
> various places. As with the Matronics system, Doug has set up
> both an all purpose list as well as model-specific lists.
> Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse
> the messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of
> individual messages. Formatting options are weak.
>
> Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board
> system and is completely web based. You never receive
> individual messages unless you have it set to send you one
> when someone responds to one of your posts. Personally, I
> really like this system best because my mailbox does not get
> flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser
> presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a few
> options for customizing your view as well fairly robust
> formatting of messages, including the ability to attach files
> and pictures. The pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not
> sure how they generate revenue, perhaps someone can provide
> that information.
>
> RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but
> after just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system.
> They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not clear
> to me if they intend to start charging for membership or not.
>
> Now let's talking about something very important: management.
> Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to be excellent
> managers with the best interest of the RV community in mind
> at all times. They have both demonstrated that they are
> willing to devote the time necessary, and have the technical
> skills required. RVaero.com seems anonomous, I can't find the
> name of the webmaster anywhere so I have no idea what this
> person's motivation or agenda is. Rivetbangers.com indicates
> it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave Bunting, and Ron
> Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their motivation or agenda.
>
> Now, what do we need in an online forum?
> 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for
> web browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search
> functionality 4. Good categorization 5. Ability to include
> pics and files WITH messages 6. Ability to post & store
> pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post & store files
> someplace central
>
>
> Off soap box now.
>
> Randy Lervold, now building second RV
> www.rv-3.com
> www.rv-8.com
> Vice President EAA Chapter 105
> EAA Technical Counselor
> EAA Flight Advisor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry Watson
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
>
>
> OK, here's a different perspective:
>
>
> When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was
> one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list.
> It had been going for quite some time before I discovered
> RV's. I had been building for a few months when one of the
> RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New
> Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to
> have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs. At the very
> same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would
> like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was
> some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8
> list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list.
> This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by
> Matronics. Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started
> the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new
> motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project
> and passed the list on to someone else to administer. Then
> and now, I much preferred !
> the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it
> had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are far
> more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you
> only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss
> a lot of useful information.
>
>
> Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep
> creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their
> list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged
> by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling
> reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on
> line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8
> builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all
> you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's,
> and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior
> XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain
> EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel
> guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want
> someone to start an RV-8A list.
>
>
> You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one
> and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over
> the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO
> is going to "shut the others down"?
>
>
> Terry Watson
>
> RV-8A #80729 wiring
>
> Seattle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
>
>
> Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people
> to move away
> from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new
> boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that
> just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at some point we
> should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not
> spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right
> and that the
> web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread.
>
>
> -- John
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV-8-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
Larry,
I installed the google desktop search on my computer. This way I can search
all my emails and lists quickly. It works wonderful, as long as you save
your emails....
Regards,
Trampas
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
The one downside, IMO, of the PHPbb lists is you can't opt to have ALL posts
sent to your email address. I've seen a couple of add-on or hack attempts
to do this, but the last time I checked this was still a deficiency of the
PHPbb-style lists...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@romeolima.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:20 PM
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com;
> vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with
> Terry, what the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system
> with all the features we all need, and I'll get to that
> below. Having been on most of these lists since 1997 I can
> tell you that Terry's recap of the history is accurate but
> doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked up the whole
> YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the
> World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio
> abandoned the RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply
> intended to be a "white pages" of RV builders, then he added
> more features, set up lists for all the specific RV models,
> began adding advertising, added fresh RV-related news each
> week, and it has evolved into what is today the most active
> RV site in the world. Further, early on he established a
> relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial
> blessing. Of course Van's might be expected to manage an
> online community themselves have never had intere!
> st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits.
> Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative with
> his new format.
>
> So, now we have the following lists...
>
> -The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The
> YahooGroups lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called
> www.rvaero.com -Another startup called www.rivetbangers.com
> -Others I've seen but can't remember
>
> Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform of each...
>
> Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that
> Matt has coded himself. This means that if you're a member
> you simply get a bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has
> added a web-based browse feature, again that he wrote, but
> frankly it doesn't compare IMHO to the commercial bbs
> engines out there. This system is free but it is suggested to
> make an annual donation if you are a regular. Formating
> options are non-existent.
>
> The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on
> offers more features than the Matronics system, but also has
> some limitations and is definitely not state-of-the-art. All
> YahooGroups are free, they pay for it with ads that appear at
> various places. As with the Matronics system, Doug has set up
> both an all purpose list as well as model-specific lists.
> Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse
> the messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of
> individual messages. Formatting options are weak.
>
> Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board
> system and is completely web based. You never receive
> individual messages unless you have it set to send you one
> when someone responds to one of your posts. Personally, I
> really like this system best because my mailbox does not get
> flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser
> presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a few
> options for customizing your view as well fairly robust
> formatting of messages, including the ability to attach files
> and pictures. The pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not
> sure how they generate revenue, perhaps someone can provide
> that information.
>
> RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but
> after just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system.
> They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not clear
> to me if they intend to start charging for membership or not.
>
> Now let's talking about something very important: management.
> Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to be excellent
> managers with the best interest of the RV community in mind
> at all times. They have both demonstrated that they are
> willing to devote the time necessary, and have the technical
> skills required. RVaero.com seems anonomous, I can't find the
> name of the webmaster anywhere so I have no idea what this
> person's motivation or agenda is. Rivetbangers.com indicates
> it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave Bunting, and Ron
> Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their motivation or agenda.
>
> Now, what do we need in an online forum?
> 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for
> web browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search
> functionality 4. Good categorization 5. Ability to include
> pics and files WITH messages 6. Ability to post & store
> pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post & store files
> someplace central
>
>
> Off soap box now.
>
> Randy Lervold, now building second RV
> www.rv-3.com
> www.rv-8.com
> Vice President EAA Chapter 105
> EAA Technical Counselor
> EAA Flight Advisor
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Terry Watson
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
> Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
>
>
> OK, here's a different perspective:
>
>
> When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was
> one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list.
> It had been going for quite some time before I discovered
> RV's. I had been building for a few months when one of the
> RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New
> Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to
> have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs. At the very
> same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would
> like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was
> some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8
> list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list.
> This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by
> Matronics. Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started
> the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new
> motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project
> and passed the list on to someone else to administer. Then
> and now, I much preferred !
> the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it
> had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are far
> more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you
> only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss
> a lot of useful information.
>
>
> Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep
> creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their
> list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged
> by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling
> reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on
> line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8
> builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all
> you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's,
> and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior
> XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain
> EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel
> guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want
> someone to start an RV-8A list.
>
>
> You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one
> and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over
> the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO
> is going to "shut the others down"?
>
>
> Terry Watson
>
> RV-8A #80729 wiring
>
> Seattle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM
> To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
>
>
> Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people
> to move away
> from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new
> boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that
> just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at some point we
> should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not
> spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right
> and that the
> web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread.
>
>
> -- John
>
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> RV-8-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Who took good pictures of their trio and alltrack installations? I'm especially
interested in seeing how the Trio servo installs in an RV8 installation that
also has electric aileron trim.
Thanks,
Lucky
do not archive
Who took good pictures of their trioand alltrack installations? I'm especially
interested in seeing how the Trio servo installs in an RV8 installation that also
has electric aileron trim.
Thanks,
Lucky
do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Too many lists? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Aaron Frechette wrote:
> I agree with Randy, there are some shortcomings to the
> crude forums that seem to be popular among RV'rs.
Aaron:
But this,
> 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages
is the only one not provided by the RV List in its current form. (And,
frankly, it's one I prefer not to have.)
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective
though.
My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180
degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls back to
lock
??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go FORWARD
to go !!
I built mine to go forward to lock.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Jeff,
My plane has a hole in each wheel fairing just big enough to pass the
extension -- about 1/2 inch diameter. The extension needs to be about 3 inches
long.
I made up a tool to hold and turn the old screwdriver type of valve cap --
the kind you used to have on your bicycle that necks down to about 1/8 inch.
The tool is a piece of 1/4 in. od aluminum tubing with a hole drilled across it
and a nail peened into the hole. With this tool I can reach in and take off
the valve cap, and put it back on.
I screwed together 3 of the standard extensions to get enough length. This
combination doesn't really work too well yet. You need to find or make up one
long one because there is too much spring pressure when you add up all 3
springs. I'm still not quite there yet, so this has been an interesting thread.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (60 hours)
In a message dated 10/23/04 10:59:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
shempdowling@earthlink.net writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
>
> Do you keep the valve extension attached? How long of an extension? Im
> having the same dilema.
>
> Jeff Dowling
> RV-6A, N915JD
> 140 hours
> Chicago/Louisville
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>Jeff,
>
>My plane has a hole in each wheel fairing just big enough to pass the
>extension -- about 1/2 inch diameter. The extension needs to be about 3 inches
long.
> I made up a tool to hold and turn the old screwdriver type of valve cap --
>the kind you used to have on your bicycle that necks down to about 1/8 inch.
>The tool is a piece of 1/4 in. od aluminum tubing with a hole drilled across it
>and a nail peened into the hole. With this tool I can reach in and take off
>the valve cap, and put it back on.
>
>I screwed together 3 of the standard extensions to get enough length. This
>combination doesn't really work too well yet. You need to find or make up one
>long one because there is too much spring pressure when you add up all 3
>springs. I'm still not quite there yet, so this has been an interesting thread.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>N766DH (60 hours)
>
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41891
shows an inflator with a flexible hose & a 'latching' fitting for the
tire valve. You can grind off the latch & then insert the fitting
through the wheel pant.
HF also sells a similar inflator (didn't show up in my quick search)
that has a smooth round fitting but costs about $20.
Either will eliminate the need to use an extension.
Charlie
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective
> though.
> My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180
> degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls
back to lock
> ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go
FORWARD
> to go !!
> I built mine to go forward to lock.
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same
thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of
swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm?
Randy Lervold
RV-3, fuselage
www.rv-3.com
Message 11
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|
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Too many lists? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris Krieg <rv6a@mac.com>
RVaero is the one managed by Mark Ferguson, who also manages the VERY
popular MINI Cooper BBS, North American Motoring. Mark has done such a
great job with maintaining and managing the NAM BBS that it is one of
the top 2 MINI boards in the world. Everyone in the MINI community
knows o NAM.
Chris
On Oct 23, 2004, at 8:20 PM, Randy Lervold wrote:
> RVaero.com seems anonomous, I can't find the name of the webmaster
> anywhere so I have no idea what this person's motivation or agenda is.
> Rivetbangers.com indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave
> Bunting, and Ron Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their
> motivation or agenda.
Message 12
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--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Goodyear also now makes "Air Stop Tubes" which work great!
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>> Goodness.....this makes me feel pretty good about my cheap old aero
> trainers
>> that came with the kit. I've have them on both RV6's and don't have many
>> problems at all.
>
> As far as "cheap old" goes, Michelin Air Stop tubes are only a few bucks
> more than the McCrappy ones. (I "splurged" on tubes but still use
> McCheapy
> AirHawk tires.)
>
>> On one plane, it has well over 250+hrs and over two years. I think I've
>
> Your tires might behave differently when you fly 250+ hours in 6 months.
> 8-) I have to assume it's a function of takeoffs and landings as well as
> just calendar time.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great.
Check out
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia
tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27
John Danielson
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular. If
you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine,
but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late on
delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine
except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen any
real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it was
torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be
interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it has
only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are
ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling
requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the
Cessna installation.
The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've
never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the
air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for
reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be
cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just
don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for
the first time.
The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the
air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine
testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible
delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing
(which they don't personally control) under way.
I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat 4s,
and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they really
perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of
time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 10/24/04 11:33:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
Jdaniel343@bresnan.net writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
>
> Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great.
> Check out
> http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia
> tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27
>
> John Danielson
>
>
>
Thanks John,
That's exactly what I've been looking for. I think an extension is the
lowest cost and best solution for me.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 10/24/04 9:49:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
ceengland@bellsouth.net writes:
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41891
>
> shows an inflator with a flexible hose &a 'latching' fitting for the
> tire valve. You can grind off the latch &then insert the fitting
> through the wheel pant.
>
> HF also sells a similar inflator (didn't show up in my quick search)
> that has a smooth round fitting but costs about $20.
>
> Either will eliminate the need to use an extension.
>
> Charlie
Charlie,
This looks good too. But the extension has the advantage that it is easier
to take along in the plane, so you can air up during a cross-country if that is
necessary. Well, its not supposed to be necessary if you have the expensive
tubes, but air is free!
Thanks
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Message 18
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| Subject: | Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> > anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel
> > pants off to fill the tires?
>
> Yeah, DON'T put air in at all! I'm not joking around. Buy a
> set of *Michelin Air Stop* tubes (Spruce sells 'em) and you
> won't have to put air in. They sure seem to work as advertised.
>
Let's see, how does one put a Air Stop tube of the size for the main gear
into the nose gear tire? It would probably have a lot of wrinkles in it,
but maybe it would work.
As has been often said on this list, there is no decent tube available for
the nose gear. I hope someone can prove me wrong. 11X4.00-5 is the size,
search away.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 546 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Randy:
I have seen RV-4s that have done exactly as you suggest. Swap the rods so
that forward is LOCKED.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,604 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective
> though.
> My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180
> degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls
back to lock
> ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go
FORWARD
> to go !!
> I built mine to go forward to lock.
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same
thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of
swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm?
Randy Lervold
RV-3, fuselage
www.rv-3.com
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 20
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| Subject: | RE: [VAF Mailing List] Trio/Altrak pictures? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen@cox.net>
Here's a link for a couple of days ago
_____
From: Mickey Coggins [mailto:mc@rv8.ch]
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] EZ Pilot servo install
I've got an 8, which is only one digit different from a 9,
so it should be similar! :-)
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452
Here is how I did it. Not flying yet, so YMMV.
Best regards,
Mickey
>Does anyone have pictures of their EZ Pilot servo installation that
>could be posted or sent to me by email? I would appreciate your
>pictures and thoughts on the subject. thanks, Jack #90508
>finishing.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
_____
From: luckymacy@comcast.net [mailto:luckymacy@comcast.net]
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Trio/Altrak pictures?
Who took good pictures of their trio and alltrack installations? I'm
especially interested in seeing how the Trio servo installs in an RV8
installation that also has electric aileron trim.
Thanks,
Lucky
do not archive
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Mike, Kathleen and all other Diesel fans:
I don't know to much about Delta Hawk (besides what they claim on their website).
Like Kathleen, I would also be very hesitant to give someone a single buck for
a "paper based" engine design.
But how about the certified Thielert Turbo-Diesel (Centurion 1.7)? Seems like a
good Company with technological background & adequate $$$ behind it.
See their website: www.thielert.com
http://www.thielert.com/en/aviation/engines.htm
These European TDI base engines are torquey little mosters. So far I had fun with
the one's coming from Mercedes, Audi, VW & Peugeot, and would prefer a TDI
over a gasoline powered car any day. Can you spell "Fahrvergnuegen"!
To Mike: Why bother with BioDiesel, it is to costly to make and MAY destroy certain
materials in the fuel system.
Bestes of luck,
Konrad
(dieseling in a '95 Dodge/Cummins)
do not archive
----- Original Message --
From: Kathleen@rv7.us
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular. If
you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine,
but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late on
delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine
except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen any
real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it was
torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be
interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it has
only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are
ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling
requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the
Cessna installation.
The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've
never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the
air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for
reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be
cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just
don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for
the first time.
The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the
air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine
testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible
delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing
(which they don't personally control) under way.
I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat 4s,
and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they really
perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of
time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 22
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Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:20:41 -0400
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" <lors01@msn.com>
>snip<
I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us<http://www.rv7.us/>
I agree that it is a big leap of faith but some of us ARE into the experimental
thing.
The more important factors to me are the technical merit of the design, execution
of the design, and a sound business model behind the company. Give me those
and I'll throttle up on serial # 1.
Unfortunately, I think at least one of the factors is missing on this engine,
but hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see them succeed.
Tracy Crook (RV-4 1400+ hours of Mazda rotary Hmmmm...)
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs particularly power
output with turbocharging, and range. I'm also starting to organise an
experiment to determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel and
jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a predictable and safe way of
running this fuel.
Mike
Mike: Kathleen has it pretty well figured out and I, too, wish them
well. I signed up for a delivery position but when they asked for a non
refundable deposit I declined for several reasons, some of which she
mentioned in her post. One thing she didn't say is that there is a
torsional vibration problem which must be solved before Hartzell props
can be used. They postponed the installation of a CS prop on their
Velocity test aircraft for reasons not made clear to me. Whether or not
the torsional vibration can be cured remains to be seen. My interest
was in the 200hp version for my RV-8. Their projected delivery schedule
had them shipping 160hp engines by now with the 200 just after years
end. Kathleen indicates none have been shipped. Deltahawk advised me
that the 180 would also require intercooling albeit with smaller heat
rejection than the 200. To me that says that the 180 doesn't make
economic sense because the installed cost must be about the same as for
the larger engine. Since an intercooling system has apparently not been
flown, the configuration of the system is as yet unknown. Apparently a
developer for the FWF RV market has not yet been identified. They have
been rather quiet lately.
I hope they make it. If you can wait long enough it might work for you.
I cannot.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 24
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
Yes, I also had interest in the Thielert Turbo-Diesel, but I couldn't really
get good info on what kind of thrust it would develop. The torque is very
high and should equate to far better performance than an equally rated
(HP-wise) gas engine, but would it pull an airplane like an RV-7 as well as
a 180 HP Lycoming? I couldn't find a solid answer to that question...
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad Werner
Subject: Re: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Mike, Kathleen and all other Diesel fans:
I don't know to much about Delta Hawk (besides what they claim on their
website).
Like Kathleen, I would also be very hesitant to give someone a single buck
for a "paper based" engine design.
But how about the certified Thielert Turbo-Diesel (Centurion 1.7)? Seems
like a good Company with technological background & adequate $$$ behind it.
See their website: www.thielert.com
http://www.thielert.com/en/aviation/engines.htm
These European TDI base engines are torquey little mosters. So far I had fun
with the one's coming from Mercedes, Audi, VW & Peugeot, and would prefer a
TDI over a gasoline powered car any day. Can you spell "Fahrvergnuegen"!
To Mike: Why bother with BioDiesel, it is to costly to make and MAY destroy
certain materials in the fuel system.
Bestes of luck,
Konrad
(dieseling in a '95 Dodge/Cummins)
do not archive
----- Original Message --
From: Kathleen@rv7.us
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular.
If
you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine,
but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late
on
delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine
except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen
any
real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it
was
torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be
interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it
has
only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are
ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling
requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the
Cessna installation.
The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've
never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the
air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for
reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be
cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just
don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for
the first time.
The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the
air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine
testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible
delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing
(which they don't personally control) under way.
I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat
4s,
and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they
really
perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of
time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
I bought two of these and can get neither to work. The little rod that
pushes down the valve core on the tire doesn't seem to be woking properly.
It's screwed on as far as it will go.
Anyone else have this problem with Cleavland's??
Jerry Calvert
RV6
N296JC
36.4 hours...phase one almost complete!
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
>
> Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great.
> Check out
> http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia
> tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27
>
> John Danielson
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Since flutter is a harmonic vibration couldn't the addition of a spring
change the harmonic point? It might change it into a more critical
vibration range instead of eliminating the problem.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
Subject: RV-List: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
>
> Thanks for all of the responses to my query. I will probably go the route
of inserting a spring between the cable sheath and the clevis to tighten
things up. Vans support indicated that most manual trims have this play, it
is inherent in the cable system, and they have never experienced or heard of
a related problem. They get questions about it from time to time.
>
> The upshot of all of this is, if it bothers you, to tighten it up to
extent possible with a spring, and not to worry about it.
>
> Tony Marshall
> ArtDeco RV6
> www.lambros.com
> P.O. Box 906
> Polson, MT 59860
> 800-432-6828 Office
> 406-249-0835 Cell
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin <rv6aokc@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the input folks....I purchased the $8 extenstion for my air hose and
I had already put about a 3/4 in extension on the valve stems, so hopefully the
combination will work...
Kurt in OKC
Kyle Boatright <kboatright1@comcast.net> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright"
Your local NAPA or equivalent auto parts store should have a valve stem
extension tool (~$10) that is just the ticket. Drill a 7/8" or 1" hole in
the wheel pant to give access. You can find plugs for that hole at most
Home Depot's, Lowe's, Ace Hardware, etc. Make an alignment mark on your
tire so the valve stem is accessible when the alignment mark is in a
particular (visible) position. This means you won't spend 3 minutes per
tire jockeying the airplane to find the valve stem through that little 'ol
hole..
KB
--- Original Message -----
From: "Alfred Klewin"
Subject: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
> --> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin
>
> Folks,
>
> Having fun with my 6A....50+ hours now!! Still no
> paint....anyway...anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel
> pants off to
> fill the tires? I would like to drill a hold in the pants to be able to
> slide a thin "filler attachment" to fill the tires. Air stop tubes
> will help later too.....any ideas on a part number for a narrow filler
> attachment? Cant seem to find one locally....
>
> Kurt in OKC
> RV6A, Finally Flying....
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Message 28
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| Subject: | Rv8 - Canopy Frame Hole Location Tip (Improved) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl@turbonet.com>
Maybe...don't know. My plans don't mention alternate methods of attaching the canopy
and as most first time builders (like
myself) would (should) be reluctant to deviate from them, I would submit that your
question would be best debated by those
who have done this more than I, especially Van's.
If gluing the canopy is indeed a better way to go, then an effort to have Van's
include this method in their plans would be
the most beneficial for the great majority of us who only build one plane.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8-vsh finish
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv8 - Canopy Frame Hole Location Tip (Improved)
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi,
If you used windshield glue to affix the canopy, wouldn't
all this hassle be unnecessary?
Mickey
>My previous post began a mini obsession with finding a quick, easy, cheap
>and accurate means of determining and marking round tubing. ...
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 29
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
>
>Yes, I also had interest in the Thielert Turbo-Diesel, but I couldn't really
>get good info on what kind of thrust it would develop. The torque is very
>high and should equate to far better performance than an equally rated
>(HP-wise) gas engine, but would it pull an airplane like an RV-7 as well as
>a 180 HP Lycoming? I couldn't find a solid answer to that question...
>
There is a direct relationship between torque and power. If we use
units of horsepower for the power, and ft-lb for the torque, power =
torque * rpm * 2 * pi/33000, or approximately torque * rpm/5252.
The torque produced by the Thielert Turbo-Diesel is no different than
any other engine that produced 135 hp at 2300 rpm. I don't have the
power chart for a 150 hp O-320 handy, but if it has a similar power
vs rpm curve to the O-360, it would produce pretty close to 135 hp at
2300 rpm. So, an RV with the Thielert Turbo-Diesel should have
take-off and climb performance similar to one with a 150 hp O-320
that happened to be turning 2300 rpm (assuming similar weights - in
real life the O-320 powered RV would probably be a bit lighter, which
would improve its performance).
The Thielert Turbo-Diesel does have an advantage at altitude, in that
it can produce its rated power up to about 5,000 ft, whereas our
Lycomings are down about
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
I have a SkyTec starter model 149-12LSX, Ser# F2LX-270302,
Pitch 12/14 for sale. It came off a XP-360 and has 20 hours on it. It is
just like new.
Off list contact jrdial@hal-pc.org
Phone 281-687-2057
$275 including ground UPS in the US
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
The leakage with Nitrogen is the same as with air. After all air is about
80% Nitrogen. If the Nitrogen didn't leak as fast as the other components
of Air, then eventually as you re-filled it would become more an more
nitrogen with out the other components.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux@bendnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux@bendnet.com>
>
> How about filling with nitrogen...Works well
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> >
> > > anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel
> > > pants off to fill the tires?
> >
> > Yeah, DON'T put air in at all! I'm not joking around. Buy a set of
> > *Michelin Air Stop* tubes (Spruce sells 'em) and you won't have to put
air
> > in. They sure seem to work as advertised.
> >
> > I used to put air in my -7's tires about once a week, maybe once every
> > couple of weeks if I was lucky. Changed the tires and tubes about 2
> months
> > ago -- and I haven't had to put air in at all. Now it's no big deal if
I
> > have to take the front wheel pant half off every few months. Figure
it's
> a
> > good idea anyway to get a condition inspection in on your brakes and the
> > tire as a whole.
> >
> > )_( Dan
> > RV-7 N714D (260 hours)
> > http://www.rvproject.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Alfred Klewin" <rv6aokc@yahoo.com>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires...
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin <rv6aokc@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > Having fun with my 6A....50+ hours now!! Still no
> > > slide a thin "filler attachment" to fill the tires. Air stop tubes
> > > will help later too.....any ideas on a part number for a narrow filler
> > attachment? Cant seem to find one locally....
> > >
> > > Kurt in OKC
> > > RV6A, Finally Flying....
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yes, it helps. http://desktop.google.com is great!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trampas [mailto:tstern@nc.rr.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:27 AM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" <tstern@nc.rr.com>
>
> Larry,
>
> I installed the google desktop search on my computer. This
> way I can search all my emails and lists quickly. It works
> wonderful, as long as you save your emails....
>
> Regards,
> Trampas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> The one downside, IMO, of the PHPbb lists is you can't opt to
> have ALL posts sent to your email address. I've seen a
> couple of add-on or hack attempts to do this, but the last
> time I checked this was still a deficiency of the PHPbb-style lists...
>
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@romeolima.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:20 PM
> > To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com;
> > vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Too many lists?
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> >
> > Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with
> Terry, what
> > the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system with all the
> features we
> > all need, and I'll get to that below. Having been on most of these
> > lists since 1997 I can tell you that Terry's recap of the
> history is
> > accurate but doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked
> up the whole
> > YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the World
> > Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio abandoned the
> > RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply intended to be a "white
> > pages" of RV builders, then he added more features, set up
> lists for
> > all the specific RV models, began adding advertising, added fresh
> > RV-related news each week, and it has evolved into what is
> today the
> > most active RV site in the world. Further, early on he
> established a
> > relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial
> blessing.
> > Of course Van's might be expected to manage an online community
> > themselves have never had intere!
> > st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits.
> > Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative
> with his new
> > format.
> >
> > So, now we have the following lists...
> >
> > -The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The
> YahooGroups
> > lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called
> www.rvaero.com -Another
> > startup called www.rivetbangers.com -Others I've seen but can't
> > remember
> >
> > Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform
> of each...
> >
> > Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that
> Matt has
> > coded himself. This means that if you're a member you simply get a
> > bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has added a web-based browse
> > feature, again that he wrote, but frankly it doesn't
> compare IMHO to
> > the commercial bbs engines out there. This system is free but it is
> > suggested to make an annual donation if you are a regular.
> Formating
> > options are non-existent.
> >
> > The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on
> offers more
> > features than the Matronics system, but also has some
> limitations and
> > is definitely not state-of-the-art. All YahooGroups are
> free, they pay
> > for it with ads that appear at various places. As with the
> Matronics
> > system, Doug has set up both an all purpose list as well as
> > model-specific lists.
> > Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse the
> > messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of individual
> > messages. Formatting options are weak.
> >
> > Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board
> system and is
> > completely web based. You never receive individual messages
> unless you
> > have it set to send you one when someone responds to one of your
> > posts. Personally, I really like this system best because
> my mailbox
> > does not get flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser
> > presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a
> few options
> > for customizing your view as well fairly robust formatting of
> > messages, including the ability to attach files and pictures. The
> > pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not sure how they generate
> > revenue, perhaps someone can provide that information.
> >
> > RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but after
> > just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system.
> > They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not
> clear to me if
> > they intend to start charging for membership or not.
> >
> > Now let's talking about something very important: management.
> > Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to be
> excellent managers
> > with the best interest of the RV community in mind at all
> times. They
> > have both demonstrated that they are willing to devote the time
> > necessary, and have the technical skills required. RVaero.com seems
> > anonomous, I can't find the name of the webmaster anywhere
> so I have
> > no idea what this person's motivation or agenda is.
> Rivetbangers.com
> > indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave Bunting, and Ron
> > Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their motivation
> or agenda.
> >
> > Now, what do we need in an online forum?
> > 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for web
> > browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search functionality 4.
> > Good categorization 5. Ability to include pics and files
> WITH messages
> > 6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery 7. Ability
> to post &
> > store files someplace central
> >
> >
> > Off soap box now.
> >
> > Randy Lervold, now building second RV
> > www.rv-3.com
> > www.rv-8.com
> > Vice President EAA Chapter 105
> > EAA Technical Counselor
> > EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Terry Watson
> > To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
> >
> >
> > OK, here's a different perspective:
> >
> >
> > When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was
> > one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list.
> > It had been going for quite some time before I discovered
> > RV's. I had been building for a few months when one of the
> > RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New
> > Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to
> > have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs. At the very
> > same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would
> > like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was
> > some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8
> > list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list.
> > This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by
> > Matronics. Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started
> > the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new
> > motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project
> > and passed the list on to someone else to administer. Then
> > and now, I much preferred !
> > the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it
> > had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are far
> > more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you
> > only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss
> > a lot of useful information.
> >
> >
> > Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep
> > creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their
> > list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged
> > by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling
> > reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on
> > line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8
> > builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all
> > you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's,
> > and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior
> > XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain
> > EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel
> > guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want
> > someone to start an RV-8A list.
> >
> >
> > You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one
> > and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over
> > the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO
> > is going to "shut the others down"?
> >
> >
> > Terry Watson
> >
> > RV-8A #80729 wiring
> >
> > Seattle
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM
> > To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
> >
> >
> > Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people
> > to move away
> > from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new
> > boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that
> > just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at
> some point we
> > should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not
> > spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right
> > and that the
> > web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread.
> >
> >
> > -- John
> >
> >
> > ADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > RV-8-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ============
> > Matronics Forums.
> > ============
> > ============
> > ============
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ============
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Putting Air In Tires... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells@sympatico.ca>
The following are great answers - just be certain to purchase an extension
that has the little button to depress the valve stem (mine came from and RV
camper store).
In addition, I purchased some chromed valve stem caps - with a hex head,
from an auto supply store. Then I made a driver by raiding my many tool
sets and spot welded a small rod to an extra one that fit the hex valve stem
cap. Works fine for removing and replacing the stem cap - perhaps
overkill???
>> RV-List message posted by: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343@bresnan.net>
>
> Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great.
> Check out
> http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia
> tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27
ALSO:
The extension is screwed onto one valve stem at a time. You attach it,
inflate a tire, unscrew it, and move to the next tire. It is about the size
of a pen or pencil, but weighs a little more, being made of steel. I keep
mine in the fly-away tool kit that I take with me on all non-aerobatic
flights.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
>>Bah Humbug how many instances have you heard of flutter?=A0 Just about
every cable controlled
trim tab in an RV-6 has slop in it. That is just the way it is if you
have installed the manual trim tab cable
as the instruction say with an almost 180 degree turn in the cable. To
much worrying and to much scare tactics
going on here.
>>Jerry
Yes Flutter! Beware!
For example I was told by a retired Cessna design engineer (Don Simon -great
guy-may he rest in peace) that a few of the original engineers/test pilots on
the C-210 flight test program died when the horizontal/elevator fluttered off
one of the 210 prototypes many moons ago. He lost some good friends... told=20us
all it was due to a sloppy trim tab. He told us to eliminate all such play on
our planes or refuse to fly them.
Scott
N4ZW
Message 35
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--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
My friend has decided to purchase an RV8 ASAP, Preferably IFR equipped and
constant speed prop. Excellent workmanship a must. Please contact me off
list.
John Furey
john@fureychrysler.com
330-324-2041
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Randy:
>
> I have seen RV-4s that have done exactly as you suggest. Swap the rods so
> that forward is LOCKED.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,604 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
> Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:01:55 -0700
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> > The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is
effective
> > though.
> > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180
> > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls
> back to lock
> > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go
> FORWARD
> > to go !!
> > I built mine to go forward to lock.
> >
> > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
>
>
> Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same
> thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter
of
> swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm?
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-3, fuselage
> www.rv-3.com
>
> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
>
>
Message 37
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Kathleen,
It sounds like it should, based on some answers on the FAQ' s found on their website:
Q #1: How can a 135HP engine effectively replace my 160HP Lycoming?
A #1: The static thrust, which is the force generated by the engine to accelerate
it forward from standing, of the CENTURION 1.7 is greater than the static thrust
of the Lycoming O-320 and equal to the Lycoming O-360. Additionally, the
combination of the specially designed MT constant speed propeller with the engine
provides better efficiency than the Lycoming O-320 fixed pitch combination.
Also, the CENTURION 1.7 has a significantly lower propeller speed (2,300 RPM
@ take off and 2,000 RPM @ best economy) these two factors result in an approximate
13% better efficiency in the propulsion system as compared to the Lycoming
O-320
Q #2: In a PA28 or a C172 with a CENTURION 1.7, can I expect the same or better
take off, climb and cruise?
A #2: The take off performance will be better due to the static thrust of the CENTURION
1.7. At ISA the climb rate up to 2,500 feet will be slightly less than
with conventional engines; however, FAR climb requirements are still met. Because
the CENTURION 1.7 is turbo-charged it delivers better performance than conventional
non-turbo engines, even at very high temperatures and/or high airfields.
Under this conditions at 8,000 ft altitude a CENTURION-Cessna 172 outperforms
the conventional avgas engine with a doubled climb performance at 10,000
ft altitude (450 ft/min vs. <175 ft/min).
So I guess it just depends on what altitudes you prefer to fly.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Kathleen@rv7.us
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 12:48 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
Yes, I also had interest in the Thielert Turbo-Diesel, but I couldn't really
get good info on what kind of thrust it would develop. The torque is very
high and should equate to far better performance than an equally rated
(HP-wise) gas engine, but would it pull an airplane like an RV-7 as well as
a 180 HP Lycoming? I couldn't find a solid answer to that question...
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Konrad Werner
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Mike, Kathleen and all other Diesel fans:
I don't know to much about Delta Hawk (besides what they claim on their
website).
Like Kathleen, I would also be very hesitant to give someone a single buck
for a "paper based" engine design.
But how about the certified Thielert Turbo-Diesel (Centurion 1.7)? Seems
like a good Company with technological background & adequate $$$ behind it.
See their website: www.thielert.com
http://www.thielert.com/en/aviation/engines.htm
These European TDI base engines are torquey little mosters. So far I had fun
with the one's coming from Mercedes, Audi, VW & Peugeot, and would prefer a
TDI over a gasoline powered car any day. Can you spell "Fahrvergnuegen"!
To Mike: Why bother with BioDiesel, it is to costly to make and MAY destroy
certain materials in the fuel system.
Bestes of luck,
Konrad
(dieseling in a '95 Dodge/Cummins)
do not archive
----- Original Message --
From: Kathleen@rv7.us
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular.
If
you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine,
but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late
on
delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine
except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen
any
real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it
was
torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be
interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it
has
only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are
ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling
requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the
Cessna installation.
The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've
never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the
air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for
reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be
cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just
don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for
the first time.
The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the
air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine
testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible
delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing
(which they don't personally control) under way.
I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat
4s,
and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they
really
perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of
time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 38
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Kevin,
My straight six I-360 / 5.9 liter Cummins Diesel was originally rated at 160 hp
& 400 ft-lbs, but I didn't know at which RPM. Based on the formula below it
should be around 2100 RPM then, correct?
And the best part: Most Turbo-Diesels can very easily be modified to increase torque
output without increasing RPM, thus providing more power at the same engine
speeds. All they really need is more fuel dumped in. Feed More Fuel More
Power for pulling!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Horton
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
>
>Yes, I also had interest in the Thielert Turbo-Diesel, but I couldn't really
>get good info on what kind of thrust it would develop. The torque is very
>high and should equate to far better performance than an equally rated
>(HP-wise) gas engine, but would it pull an airplane like an RV-7 as well as
>a 180 HP Lycoming? I couldn't find a solid answer to that question...
>
There is a direct relationship between torque and power. If we use
units of horsepower for the power, and ft-lb for the torque, power
torque * rpm * 2 * pi/33000, or approximately torque * rpm/5252.
The torque produced by the Thielert Turbo-Diesel is no different than
any other engine that produced 135 hp at 2300 rpm. I don't have the
power chart for a 150 hp O-320 handy, but if it has a similar power
vs rpm curve to the O-360, it would produce pretty close to 135 hp at
2300 rpm. So, an RV with the Thielert Turbo-Diesel should have
take-off and climb performance similar to one with a 150 hp O-320
that happened to be turning 2300 rpm (assuming similar weights - in
real life the O-320 powered RV would probably be a bit lighter, which
would improve its performance).
The Thielert Turbo-Diesel does have an advantage at altitude, in that
it can produce its rated power up to about 5,000 ft, whereas our
Lycomings are down about
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 10/24/04 5:21:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jrdial@hal-pc.org writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
>
>
> I have a SkyTec starter model 149-12LSX, Ser# F2LX-270302,
> Pitch 12/14 for sale. It came off a XP-360 and has 20 hours on it. It is
> just like new.
> Off list contact jrdial@hal-pc.org
> Phone 281-687-2057
>
> $275 including ground UPS in the US
>
>
J. R.,
Is this 20 hours of cranking? Just joking. Actually, I was wanting the rest
of the story since I may have this starter on my RV. Or maybe this is not
the one I have, mine is the one that fits Vans FAB for the IO-360. Anyway, I
was wondering why did you change?
Thanks,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
>
>>>Bah Humbug how many instances have you heard of flutter?=A0 Just about
>every cable controlled
>trim tab in an RV-6 has slop in it. That is just the way it is if you
>have installed the manual trim tab cable
>as the instruction say with an almost 180 degree turn in the cable. To
>much worrying and to much scare tactics
>going on here.
>
>>>Jerry
>
>Yes Flutter! Beware!
>For example I was told by a retired Cessna design engineer (Don Simon -great
>guy-may he rest in peace) that a few of the original engineers/test pilots on
>the C-210 flight test program died when the horizontal/elevator fluttered off
>one of the 210 prototypes many moons ago. He lost some good
>friends... told=20us
>all it was due to a sloppy trim tab. He told us to eliminate all such play on
>our planes or refuse to fly them.
>
>Scott
As a general rule, any free play in control surfaces or trim tabs is
a very bad thing as far as flutter is concerned. But, as Jerry
points out, every RV with manual pitch trim built as per the plans
has some free play in the trim tab. The flutter testing that Van did
on the RV-3, -4, -6 (and maybe the -8 and -9) was done on aircraft
with manual pitch trim. And we have over three thousand RVs flying,
and no known flutter accidents. So flutter due to free play isn't a
concern in this very specific instance.
The cure could be worse than the disease, if (as Jerry said in
another post) the trim tab becomes disconnected from the cable, and
the spring pulls the tab. A sudden, large change in stick force, on
an aircraft with low stick-force per g and a speed well above
manoeuvring speed could be very, very bad. I could see that possibly
leading to an accident, if it occurred at medium to high speed, and
aft CG. Don't try to second guess Vans - build it per the plans.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
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| Subject: | Slider Tip-Up Mod |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
A fellow RVR Rich Meske some years ago developed a tip up mod for an RV6 slider. He sells a kit for the conversion at www.aircraftextras.com
Anyone had experience with this mod? How much time does it take to install? Upsides?
Downsides?
Tony Marshall
ArtDeco RV6
Message 42
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
I spoke to Thielert at Sun and Fun and asked for a drawing and some
information because I am designing a four place plane and want to be sure
that their engine will fit if that is what I decide on when I am ready.
They said that I couldn't have anything including a price and they are only
working with some OEMs. They said they may be willing to explore selling
for experimentals later. Seemed strange to me, but I do really like their
engine.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Konrad Werner
Subject: Re: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Mike, Kathleen and all other Diesel fans:
I don't know to much about Delta Hawk (besides what they claim on their
website).
Like Kathleen, I would also be very hesitant to give someone a single buck
for a "paper based" engine design.
But how about the certified Thielert Turbo-Diesel (Centurion 1.7)? Seems
like a good Company with technological background & adequate $$$ behind it.
See their website: www.thielert.com
http://www.thielert.com/en/aviation/engines.htm
These European TDI base engines are torquey little mosters. So far I had fun
with the one's coming from Mercedes, Audi, VW & Peugeot, and would prefer a
TDI over a gasoline powered car any day. Can you spell "Fahrvergnuegen"!
To Mike: Why bother with BioDiesel, it is to costly to make and MAY destroy
certain materials in the fuel system.
Bestes of luck,
Konrad
(dieseling in a '95 Dodge/Cummins)
do not archive
----- Original Message --
From: Kathleen@rv7.us
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 10:27 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Kathleen@rv7.us
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular.
If
you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine,
but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late
on
delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine
except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen
any
real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it
was
torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be
interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it
has
only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are
ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling
requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the
Cessna installation.
The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've
never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the
air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for
reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be
cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just
don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for
the first time.
The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the
air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine
testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible
delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing
(which they don't personally control) under way.
I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat
4s,
and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they
really
perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of
time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully
designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As
for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at
least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one.
Glad I got that off my chest :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Diesel
--> RV-List message posted by: Michael Duran <mgdurand@yahoo.com>
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel
power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear
from anyone working on this. I plan to install a
delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs
particularly power output with turbocharging, and
range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to
determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel
and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a
predictable and safe way of running this fuel.
Searched the archives and haven't found any recent
posts on this topic.
Mike
Message 43
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
>Dear Kevin,
>My straight six I-360 / 5.9 liter Cummins Diesel was originally
>rated at 160 hp & 400 ft-lbs, but I didn't know at which RPM. Based
>on the formula below it should be around 2100 RPM then, correct?
>And the best part: Most Turbo-Diesels can very easily be modified to
>increase torque output without increasing RPM, thus providing more
>power at the same engine speeds. All they really need is more fuel
>dumped in. Feed More Fuel More Power for pulling!
>
>do not archive
Konrad,
Certainly 400 ft-lbs torque at 2100 rpm produces 160 hp. But, most
internal combustion engines produce their maximum torque at a lower
rpm than the rpm at which they produce max power. So, I would
suspect the 400 ft-lbs they quote is probably at less than 2100 rpm,
and the 160 hp is probably at higher than 2100 rpm.
As far as producing more power by increasing the fuel-flow goes -
yes, that might be a simply mod, but if it could be done without
affecting reliability, wouldn't Thielert do it? Reliability is very,
very important in most aircraft applications, so I'm not sure I would
want to do that.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 44
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--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
A couple of comments are imbedded in Konrad's text.
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
>Dear Kathleen,
>It sounds like it should, based on some answers on the FAQ' s found
>on their website:
>Q #1: How can a 135HP engine effectively replace my 160HP Lycoming?
>
>A #1: The static thrust, which is the force generated by the engine
>to accelerate it forward from standing, of the CENTURION 1.7 is
>greater than the static thrust of the Lycoming O-320 and equal to
>the Lycoming O-360. Additionally, the combination of the specially
>designed MT constant speed propeller with the engine provides better
>efficiency than the Lycoming O-320 fixed pitch combination. Also,
>the CENTURION 1.7 has a significantly lower propeller speed (2,300
>RPM @ take off and 2,000 RPM @ best economy) these two factors
>result in an approximate 13% better efficiency in the propulsion
>system as compared to the Lycoming O-320
But, RVs with fixed pitch props need a lot higher pitch than C172s,
due to the much higher cruise speed. This leads to lower static
rpms. I believe that most RVs with fixed pitch props are turning
2,300 or less during take-off, so Thielert's story on prop efficiency
increase due to lower rpm wouldn't apply for us.
>Q #2: In a PA28 or a C172 with a CENTURION 1.7, can I expect the
>same or better take off, climb and cruise?
>
>A #2: The take off performance will be better due to the static
>thrust of the CENTURION 1.7. At ISA the climb rate up to 2,500 feet
>will be slightly less than with conventional engines; however, FAR
>climb requirements are still met. Because the CENTURION 1.7 is
>turbo-charged it delivers better performance than conventional
>non-turbo engines, even at very high temperatures and/or high
>airfields. Under this conditions at 8,000 ft altitude a
>CENTURION-Cessna 172 outperforms the conventional avgas engine with
>a doubled climb performance at 10,000 ft altitude (450 ft/min vs.
><175 ft/min).
>
> So I guess it just depends on what altitudes you prefer to fly.
I hope someone puts a Thielert turbo-diesel in an RV, as it would be
interesting to see how the performance compares. My bets are:
Sea level take-off performance similiar to a 150 hp O-320 powered RV
(based on similar rpm and power output).
Sea level climb performance a bit worse than a 150 hp O-320 powered
RV (based on a predicted higher power for the O-320, as the rpm
increases above 2300).
8,000 ft cruise performance about the same as a 180 hp O-360 powered
RV (based on the slightly lower power from the Thielert being
compensated by the better prop efficiency of the lower rpm - the
Thielert produces about 131 hp at 2,300 rpm at 8,000 ft, as compared
to 135 hp at 2,700 rpm from the O-360.
These performance predictions are worth what you paid for them.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
I was looking at the latch rod setup and it looks like it's the way it is
because of the angles involved. It looks like by doing it Vans way the rods
enter the panel and rear seat bulkhead close to perpendicular. Looks like
either setup would be fine though. I'll mock it up this week and report back
if anything interesting happens.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
>
> > The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is
effective
> > though.
> > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180
> > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls
> back to lock
> > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go
> FORWARD
> > to go !!
> > I built mine to go forward to lock.
> >
> > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
>
>
> Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same
> thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter
of
> swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm?
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-3, fuselage
> www.rv-3.com
>
>
Message 46
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
Ken Balch has a super nice one for sale.....its in the classifieds on Doug's
website....check it out
www.vansairforce.net/4sale.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV8 Wanted
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
> My friend has decided to purchase an RV8 ASAP, Preferably IFR equipped and
> constant speed prop. Excellent workmanship a must. Please contact me off
> list.
>
> John Furey
> john@fureychrysler.com
> 330-324-2041
>
>
Message 47
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts@yahoo.com>
That's what Google is for! It will find it on Matt's list or just about
any where else it might be.
As far as list proliferation goes, good old fashioned competition will
work everything out. The forum with the best value to builders will
survive, and those that don't provide the features wanted by the
majority of builders will disappear over time.
I like Matt's list even though I've been personally attacked on it and
seen other REALLY good sources of info leave the list due to these
attacks. I like the Yahoo groups because they are moderated and a bit
more kinder and gentler. I like the web-based forums too. I use them
all and like them all.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
Yeah, but it's also about efficency. How many times have you said to
yourself, or heard others say "Someone posted a tip about how to best do
the
kanooter valve, but I can't remember which list it was on, and now I
can't
find it!" In the good 'ol days you searched one list, Matt's RV-List.
The
collective wisdom use to be in one spot...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jerry Springer [mailto:jsflyrv@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:42 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
>
> You all miss the point, it is still a free country here in
> the US anyway so anyone can start a list that wants to.
> The secret is to just join the one you want, and forget the
> others. I have no desire to go to all the offbeat list that
> get started out there and I only frequent Dougs list and
> Matts list. There is all the RV info I could ever want or
> need on these two excellent lists. If there is something on
> the other lists and I miss it so what I don't care. Just
> because someone starts a list does not mean I have join it.
>
> Jerry
> do not archive
>
>
> Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@romeolima.com>
> >
> >Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with
> Terry, what the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system
> with all the features we all need, and I'll get to that
> below. Having been on most of these lists since 1997 I can
> tell you that Terry's recap of the history is accurate but
> doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked up the whole
> YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the
> World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio
> abandoned the RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply
> intended to be a "white pages" of RV builders, then he added
> more features, set up lists for all the specific RV models,
> began adding advertising, added fresh RV-related news each
> week, and it has evolved into what is today the most active
> RV site in the world. Further, early on he established a
> relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial
> blessing. Of course Van's might be expected to manage an
> online community themselves have never had inter!
> e!
> >st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits.
> Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative with
> his new format.
> >
> >So, now we have the following lists...
> >
> >-The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The
> YahooGroups
> >lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called
> www.rvaero.com -Another
> >startup called www.rivetbangers.com -Others I've seen but can't
> >remember
> >
> >Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform of each...
> >
> >Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that
> Matt has coded himself. This means that if you're a member
> you simply get a bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has
> added a web-based browse feature, again that he wrote, but
> frankly it doesn't compare IMHO to the commercial bbs
> engines out there. This system is free but it is suggested to
> make an annual donation if you are a regular. Formating
> options are non-existent.
> >
> >The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on
> offers more features than the Matronics system, but also has
> some limitations and is definitely not state-of-the-art. All
> YahooGroups are free, they pay for it with ads that appear at
> various places. As with the Matronics system, Doug has set up
> both an all purpose list as well as model-specific lists.
> Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse
> the messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of
> individual messages. Formatting options are weak.
> >
> >Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board
> system and is completely web based. You never receive
> individual messages unless you have it set to send you one
> when someone responds to one of your posts. Personally, I
> really like this system best because my mailbox does not get
> flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser
> presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a few
> options for customizing your view as well fairly robust
> formatting of messages, including the ability to attach files
> and pictures. The pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not
> sure how they generate revenue, perhaps someone can provide
> that information.
> >
> >RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but
> after just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system.
> They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not clear
> to me if they intend to start charging for membership or not.
> >
> >Now let's talking about something very important:
> management. Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to
> be excellent managers with the best interest of the RV
> community in mind at all times. They have both demonstrated
> that they are willing to devote the time necessary, and have
> the technical skills required. RVaero.com seems anonomous, I
> can't find the name of the webmaster anywhere so I have no
> idea what this person's motivation or agenda is.
> Rivetbangers.com indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson,
> Dave Bunting, and Ron Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as
> to their motivation or agenda.
> >
> >Now, what do we need in an online forum?
> >1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for
> web browsing
> >or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search functionality 4. Good
> >categorization 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages 6.
> >Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post &
> >store files someplace central
> >
> >
> >Off soap box now.
> >
> >Randy Lervold, now building second RV
> >www.rv-3.com
> >www.rv-8.com
> >Vice President EAA Chapter 105
> >EAA Technical Counselor
> >EAA Flight Advisor
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Terry Watson
> > To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
> > Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
> >
> >
> > OK, here's a different perspective:
> >
> >
> > When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there
> was one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV
> list. It had been going for quite some time before I
> discovered RV's. I had been building for a few months when
> one of the RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine
> reservist in New Jersey if I remember right, decided that it
> would be nice to have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all
> RVs. At the very same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics
> RV list if we would like to have a separate list for each
> model. Then there was some discussion about whether there
> should be only one RV-8 list, and if that should be Matronics
> or the Yahoo list. This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on
> Yahoo and another by Matronics. Eventually the man in New
> Jersey who had started the Yahoo list decided he was more
> interested in his new motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he
> sold the RV-8 project and passed the list on to someone else
> to administer. Then and now, I much preferred!
> !
> >the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if
> it had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are
> far more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you
> only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss
> a lot of useful information.
> >
> >
> > Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep
> creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their
> list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged
> by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling
> reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on
> line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8
> builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all
> you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's,
> and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior
> XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain
> EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel
> guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want
> someone to start an RV-8A list.
> >
> >
> > You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one
> and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over
> the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO
> is going to "shut the others down"?
> >
> >
> > Terry Watson
> >
> > RV-8A #80729 wiring
> >
> > Seattle
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> ============
> Matronics Forums.
> ============
> ============
> ============
>
>
>
>
>
>
==
==
==
==
Message 48
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| Subject: | Canopy Latch Rods |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Sounds like you have about the right idea. That's exactly what I and
many other RV-4 builders have done.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve zicree
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Latch Rods
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Hi All,
I'm starting to attach the canopy frame on my RV4 and was hoping someone
could explain the best way to make the latch rods. The plans show sort
of a clevis on the end that attaches to the inside handle. It looks as
though I'm supposed to cut a slit in the supplied tubing and then
flatten it to make this. Is this what others have done? It seems a
little crude. Thanks.
Steve Zicree
==
==
==
==
Message 49
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| Subject: | Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
Getting ready to order my Senenich FP prop (CS is too much), and I am trying to
determine pitch. From their website, they list 83 as the std, with 85 being
the "cruise" pitch. I don't typically fly at high altitudes, and cruise speed
is definitely a priority. For those with the 85...what sort of climb rates are
you seeing? Do you have any difficulty going 15,000'+? At this point I am
leaning heavily toward the 85. I will be using an 0-360 engine.
Also, I am plannig the Sam James cowl, and would be interested in corresponding
off list with any 7 builders who have installed this cowl.
Thanks again,
Scott
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Too many lists? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aaron Frechette" <right-stuff@comcast.net>
Tedd,
I have to say that I don't see how The List is doing a 'good' job of items 1
through 4, set aside 5. I actually feel like item 5 is a good feature to
have at times. Nothing like having the picture right there to help
communicate a point.
1. Message presentation by thread or by date
2. Option for web browsing or individual e-mails sent
3. Good search functionality
4. Good categorization
5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages
6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery
7. Ability to post & store files someplace central
I suppose it has to do with the standards by which you judge these criteria.
I personally feel like the mailing lists are an cumbersome means for sharing
and organizing information when compared to discussion boards like, for
example www.glocktalk.com, which runs on vBulletin. IMO, going from a board
like this to The List is like going from Windows back to DOS. Well, maybe
not that extreme. I'll just say that web boards work well for me.
Aaron Frechette
RV-9A Vertical Stab
Portland, OR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists?
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Aaron Frechette wrote:
>
> > I agree with Randy, there are some shortcomings to the
> > crude forums that seem to be popular among RV'rs.
>
> Aaron:
>
> But this,
>
> > 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages
>
> is the only one not provided by the RV List in its current form. (And,
> frankly, it's one I prefer not to have.)
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Scott,
The general concensus is now that 85" should be the standard with a -360,
and with a clean plane or a tweaked engine, then 87" might be a better fit.
I have an 85" with my -360 RV6 and can turn 2800+RPM all the way up to 12.5K
before I start running out of MP. I was thinking of twisting mine to 87",
but then my takeoff/climb would suffer a bit. With my plane I get climb
rates from 2,000+fpm solo, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on
loading, temperature, etc..
Either way, I wouldn't be too excited about an 83" if it were me.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
tx_jayhawk@excite.com
Subject: RV-List: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch?
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
Getting ready to order my Senenich FP prop (CS is too much), and I am trying
to determine pitch. From their website, they list 83 as the std, with 85
being the "cruise" pitch. I don't typically fly at high altitudes, and
cruise speed is definitely a priority. For those with the 85...what sort of
climb rates are you seeing? Do you have any difficulty going 15,000'+? At
this point I am leaning heavily toward the 85. I will be using an 0-360
engine.
Also, I am plannig the Sam James cowl, and would be interested in
corresponding off list with any 7 builders who have installed this cowl.
Thanks again,
Scott
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 52
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| Subject: | RV 10 Fwd Fuselage Floor Rib |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay@jetstream.net>
Page 28-5 Figure 2 shows F1049A-L, Mine was formed incorrectly the end tabs bent
the wrong way. It looked like an easy fix by rebending the tabs. However the
spacing of the end rivets is different on each end and with it installed with
the lower flange facing outboard as per the drawing this reverses the end holes
so that the holes will not line up with the floor panel.
I talked to Ken Kruger at Van's and he confirmed that some of these were shipped
before the error was discovered. They shipped me a replacement the same day
postage prepaid, as usual the same great service.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
I have the same question for around 170hp O320 What is the experience with
props for this engine?
Thanks
Message 54
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| Subject: | Root Fairings for RV4 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Can anybody tell me what the conventional wisdom is on root fairings? My 4 kit
has some fiberglass for the front and some curved aluminum for the top. I've seen
several pics of 6's that appear to just use a flat strip with what looks like
some kind of rubber molding. I like the idea a lot and am wondering if any
4's out there have used this.
Steve Zicree
Message 55
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--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>That's what Google is for! It will find it on Matt's list or just about
>any where else it might be.
I have not been able to get Google to find information
on the Yahoo groups. Is there a trick that I don't
know about?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
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