---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 11/02/04: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:33 AM - to firesleeve or not (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 2. 04:15 AM - Re: Tufting (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 3. 04:20 AM - Help with the RV-8 seat back (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 4. 04:29 AM - Re: to firesleeve or not () 5. 05:05 AM - Re: Help with the RV-8 seat back (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 6. 05:24 AM - (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club) 7. 05:25 AM - Re: Help with the RV-8 seat back (Brian Denk) 8. 06:12 AM - Re: Bending Hinge Pin (George Neal E Capt AU/PC) 9. 06:20 AM - Fl. VAF Fly-in (Ollie Washburn) 10. 09:16 AM - Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (dmedema@att.net) 11. 09:47 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (RGray67968@aol.com) 12. 09:47 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Scott Bilinski) 13. 09:50 AM - Off Topic - Presidential Poll (Mickey Coggins) 14. 09:56 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Pat Hatch) 15. 09:57 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 16. 10:27 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Rob Prior) 17. 10:39 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (BELTEDAIR@aol.com) 18. 11:06 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Jaye Murray and Scott Jackson) 19. 11:07 AM - Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) (Bruce Anthony) 20. 11:21 AM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Bob J) 21. 12:09 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Dean) 22. 12:11 PM - Re: Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) (Scott Bilinski) 23. 01:35 PM - Re: Off Topic - Presidential Poll (Jack Ford) 24. 01:39 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Charlie England) 25. 02:01 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Marty) 26. 02:18 PM - Re: Off Topic - Presidential Poll (Kysh) 27. 02:35 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (rv6tc) 28. 02:38 PM - Radio Amplifier? (Randy Garrett) 29. 02:39 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Stein Bruch) 30. 02:58 PM - Re: Lights (Bill Dube) 31. 03:14 PM - leaving a floater (Kevin Shannon) 32. 03:45 PM - Re: leaving a floater (RobHickman@aol.com) 33. 04:14 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Marty) 34. 04:34 PM - donation (Wheeler North) 35. 05:06 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (Charlie England) 36. 05:06 PM - Re: donation (Scott VanArtsdalen) 37. 05:14 PM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Gabe A Ferrer) 38. 05:21 PM - Leather cleaning (wuz the old in&out question) (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 39. 07:05 PM - Re: Fuel senders to float or not to float (JOHN STARN) 40. 07:25 PM - Re: Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) (Chris W) 41. 07:49 PM - Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) (Jeff Dowling) 42. 08:58 PM - Re: Alternative Fuels (Konrad Werner) 43. 10:07 PM - Re: Alternative Fuels (Chris W) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:23 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: to firesleeve or not --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Van's catalogue suggests only certain fuel/oil lines should be firesleeved in that orange hose. But I'm pretty sure I've seen where builders have almost firesleeved just about everything from control cables to starter wires to small wire bundles up there. Do the control cables really break down over time without the firesleeve even if you have those clamp on exhaust stack heat deflectors? Also, my fuel line that runs from the fuel metering system up to the distributor on top of the engine isn't firesleeved. I don't know why it came that way. Should it be? thanks, lucky do not archive Van's catalogue suggests only certain fuel/oil lines should be firesleeved in that orange hose. But I'm pretty sure I've seen where builders have almost firesleeved just about everything from control cables to starter wires to small wire bundles up there. Do the control cables really break down over time without the firesleeve even if you have those clamp on exhaust stack heat deflectors? Also, my fuel line that runs from the fuel metering systemup to the distributor on top of the engine isn't firesleeved. I don't know why it came that way. Should it be? thanks, lucky do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:15:30 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Tufting From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Take a good camera with the photo ship pilot being an experienced formation pilot capable of hanging in during unusual attitudes and angle of attacks. Mike Stewart Supported Subaru Bob Goodman as a photo ship doing tuft testing on his rv-4. 2002 Sun 100 race class winner 160hp Subie engine. He now has a Lycoming on it. Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Bertsch Subject: RV-List: Tufting --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch I am going to use tufts of yarn around the cowling inlet to help visualize the flow fields in that area. I'll then go fly formation and get some nice videos and photos at various speeds. I figured someone in this knowledgeable group has done this before and could offer some tips based on their experience. If so thanks... Jeff Bertsch RV-4 www.lonestarsquadron.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:20:56 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Help with the RV-8 seat back From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I am looking for a good set of photos of the seat back, rear seat, for an 8. plans and parts have confused me to the brink of migraine. Please help. I cant figure out what need to be removed from the side support rails at the top where they meet the fiberglass, how the fiberglass attaches to the seatback at that undetermined angle, which part of the seat other than the fiberglass flange touches the fuse. Etc. Thanks for your help. Michael Stewart S8 Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:49 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: to firesleeve or not --> RV-List message posted by: ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucky" Subject: RV-List: to firesleeve or not > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > Van's catalogue suggests only certain fuel/oil lines should be firesleeved in that orange hose. But I'm pretty sure I've seen where builders have almost firesleeved just about everything from control cables to starter wires to small wire bundles up there. > > Do the control cables really break down over time without the firesleeve even if you have those clamp on exhaust stack heat deflectors? > > Also, my fuel line that runs from the fuel metering system up to the distributor on top of the engine isn't firesleeved. I don't know why it came that way. Should it be? > > thanks, > lucky > do not archive > > Van's catalogue suggests only certain fuel/oil lines should be firesleeved in that orange hose. But I'm pretty sure I've seen where builders have almost firesleeved just about everything from control cables to starter wires to small wire bundles up there. > > Do the control cables really break down over time without the firesleeve even if you have those clamp on exhaust stack heat deflectors? > > Also, my fuel line that runs from the fuel metering systemup to the distributor on top of the engine isn't firesleeved. I don't know why it came that way. Should it be? > > thanks, > lucky > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:05:02 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Help with the RV-8 seat back From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Ahh, replying to myself. Thanks to Kevin Horton For the quick response and the pictures he uploaded to his very cool website. Thanks Kevin. Photo's here. http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/gallery/view_album.php?set_albu mName=album13 Turns out the yoyo builder in question (me) was trying to put the fiberglass on the forward side of the seatback instead of the back side. Duh, no wonder it would not fit. What a dope:) A picture is an amazing fog removal tool. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RV-List: Help with the RV-8 seat back --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I am looking for a good set of photos of the seat back, rear seat, for an 8. plans and parts have confused me to the brink of migraine. Please help. I cant figure out what need to be removed from the side support rails at the top where they meet the fiberglass, how the fiberglass attaches to the seatback at that undetermined angle, which part of the seat other than the fiberglass flange touches the fuse. Etc. Thanks for your help. Michael Stewart S8 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:24:47 AM PST US From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" Jeff Dowling wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" > >How about some Walmart specials for 10 bucks. Thats essentially what the >Duckworks is anyway. You can get the redneck pickup truck rollover >rectangular halogen 50watt lights from Wallyworld for 20 bucks for the pair. >You have to make up the housing with spare aluminum. It will help alot if >you can look at someone elses. You can bend some plexi on your own or just >by it from Vans. I have them on both wings and they work fine. > >Jeff Dowling >RV-6A, N915JD >140 hours >Chicago/Louisville > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jim & Kathy McChesney" >To: >forged HELO > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Jim & Kathy McChesney >> >> >>List- >> >>I'm looking at my wings and debating between the Duckworks HID leading >>edge landing light ($450 for one light from Van's) and the CreativAir >>wingtip halogen landing light ($120 for a pair- one in each wingtip). >>Any discussion of the advantages of one or the other would be helpful. >>Also any factors favoring right wing vs left wing installation if I >>choose a single light? I'm thinking that illuminating the driver's >>side of the taxiway would be a good choice but I've seen several side by >>side RVs with the light in the right wing. >> >>Thanks in advance for any info. >>Jim McChesney >>7A-QB wings and fuse >> >> I saw the exact same thing at Auto-Zone for $18. I ordered one from Duck and made the other one myself. Duckworth parts are very nicely made. and well worth the cost, but if you have more time than money, it is not hard to make, just takes some time... Van has the lens for about $12. I ordered it with another order to save on some shipping. phil in Illinois ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:05 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: Help with the RV-8 seat back --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > >I am looking for a good set of photos of the seat back, rear seat, for >an 8. plans and parts have confused me to the brink of migraine. > >Please help. I cant figure out what need to be removed from the side >support rails at the top where they meet the fiberglass, how the >fiberglass attaches to the seatback at that undetermined angle, which >part of the seat other than the fiberglass flange touches the fuse. Etc. > > >Thanks for your help. > > >Michael Stewart > Some very marginal pics here on my webpage: http://geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/9656/fuselage6.html Fiberglass top contacts the bulkhead and the side channels basically don't! Trim the tops of the channels to blend into the glass top piece and trim at the bottom if/as needed to clear the floor when seat is swung forward for baggage access. Trim top contour of the glass to clear the canopy handle too. Trim opposite side in a symmetrical fashion for best appearance. Top attaches to seat back side channels with a few rivets through channels, using a piece of alu on the shop head side so rivets don't crush through the glass. (This is how I did it, YMMV.) I also highly recommend using DJ Lauritson's plans for a seat bottom pan. It improves the angle of the seat cushion and provides a neato storage space under it. Pics of my seat pan are on the webpage too. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:03 AM PST US From: George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV-List: Bending Hinge Pin --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC Scott - Try this neat little tool from the RC world. Harry Higley's Wire Benders. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=wire+bender&FVPROFIL++ If the link fails, try towerhobbies.com, part number LXL787. Neal RV-7 N8ZG (tanks) > Anyone care to share the best method for accurately bending piano hinge pins? Thanks, Scott < ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:02 AM PST US From: "Ollie Washburn" Subject: RV-List: Fl. VAF Fly-in --> RV-List message posted by: "Ollie Washburn" NOTE: To all listers within range. This SAT.(NOV 6th) is the fall Fl. VAF RV fly-in at Love's Landing Airpark featuring Ollie's FAMOUS Bar-BQ pork. Place: Love's Ldg Airpark (97FL). On sectional chart. 21nm 126* Ocf VOR. Check Doug Reeve's calendar and AIR NAV airport data. N 28-57-43 W 081-53-29 Time: Coffee and donuts for early birds and lunch @ noon. Food: Bar-BQ Pork, Turkey, Hamburgers, Hotdogs and all the fixins. Contributions: We are asking $5/plate for all you can eat as long as the food lasts. Forums: There are no forums, just everybody talking about their love of flying and RVs. We have put in a request for good weather and hope to see the airpark full of RVs. NOTE--This is a private airpark so landing is at your own risk. 18/36 3700 ft. Do not archive and thanks. Ollie 6A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:46 AM PST US From: dmedema@att.net Subject: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front would be easily removable so you could step on metal while getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving the seats out of the way? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front would be easily removable so you could step on metal while getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving the seats out of the way? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:45 AM PST US From: RGray67968@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com Hi Doug, My thoughts on the 'seat thing'......get over it!! Do something 'constructive' on your plane instead. OK.....here's the other side....I can (and do) EASILY get in/out of my RV6 without stepping on my seats.....and, so do my passengers. If you don't have the handles on the roll bar then put them in......Rich Meske at aircraftextras sells a bolt on version......they are worth every penny. I give my passengers a quickie brief on how to get in/out and it's a NON ISSUE. 'IF' you get someone that just can't seem to figure it out then just let 'em stand on the seat and get in......your seats will be no worse for it.......toss a towel on the seat if you must. My seats look like brand new after 2+ years of flying and 375hrs of almost always having a passenger. Move on Doug!! Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OhioValleyRVators/ do not archive I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front would be easily removable so you could step on metal while getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving the seats out of the way? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:45 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I have an 8, and the problem exist here to. I just covered the seats with a dark fabric and tell everyone to go ahead an step on them. The plane is one year old this month with about 200 hours. Seats look just fine. They are the Oregon Aero seats upholstered by a local car upholstery shop with standard cloth material glued to the seats to follow the seat contour. At 05:15 PM 11/2/2004 +0000, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > >I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have >struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without >damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out >includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make >the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front >would be easily removable so you could step on metal while >getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. >This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing >this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now >I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small >seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. >This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of >frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down >as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, >maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when >not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor >and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some >weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some >issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just >give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > >So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on >your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the >way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving >the seats out of the way? > >Thanks, >Doug Medema >RV-6A N276DM > > > > > >I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have >struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without >damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out >includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make >the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front >would be easily removable so you could step on metal while >getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. >This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing >this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now >I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small >seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. >This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of >frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down >as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, >maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when >not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor >and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some >weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some >issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just >give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > >So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on >your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the >way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving >the seats out of the way? > >Thanks, >Doug Medema >RV-6A N276DM > > > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:50 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Off Topic - Presidential Poll --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins In the spirit of election day in the USA, I've put a poll on my website (http://www.rv8.ch/) asking who you would like to become the next president of the United States. If you participate, you can tell your friends that you voted twice! It will be interesting to see how the RV community sees this election. Best regards, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:20 AM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" Doug, This may not be very elegant, but I keep a couple of beach towls on the seats for getting in and out. After I'm in I will throw them in the baggage area or if it's just a short flight, just leave them there. Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:57:18 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Doug after 1300 hours of stepping in and out of my 6A and usually with a passenger, on expensive leather seats, there is only one solution IMHO, just step on them. Many folks have tried to climb in and out w/o stepping on them and it urks me cause I tell them to stand right on the seat, but still they try not to and it is dangerous to try and get in w/o stepping on the seat. I have seen many an awkward scenario in my plane from trying not to step on the seat. You can get hurt, and on the slider, it puts the fiberglass strip across the top at tremendous risk. Bottom line, just step on em, and don't worry about it. You can not tell that literally hundreds of people have stepped on them. Good luck. Mike Stewart 6A Flying S8 Fuse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of dmedema@att.net Subject: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front would be easily removable so you could step on metal while getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving the seats out of the way? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front would be easily removable so you could step on metal while getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving the seats out of the way? Thanks, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:40 AM PST US From: "Rob Prior" Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: "Rob Prior" On 15:59 31/12/1969 dmedema@att.net wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. Here's two suggestions i've seen in use on other homebuilts, RV's included. 1. Sew or velcro a flap of fabric to the front of your seat, that is about 1.5x the depth of the seat, and just as wide. Make it from Canvas, or some other durable material. To get in, flip the flap over the seat, stand on it, and swing your body into place. Before dropping the last few inches to the seat, pull the flap forward and hang it down to the floor in front of the seat. That way you can always sit on a clean seat, and have a protective flap for entry/exit. 2. If you aren't installing the armrest, you can have a nice gap between your front seats. It's well supported, and about exactly the right size for a foot to stand on the seat pan *next* to the cushion while you get your weight over the sill. One foot goes in the seat pan between the seats, the other goes on the floor in front of the spar. Then grab the canopy bow, move your seat-pan foot to the floor, and lower yourself down. Both methods, once you've been shown how to use them, work very well. -Rob Prior rv7 "at" b4.ca ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:59 AM PST US From: BELTEDAIR@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: BELTEDAIR@aol.com Many years ago the Erocoupe had a bottom seat cushion with a flap attached to the front lower edge, when getting in or out the flap covered the seat then folded down out of the way. It worked then and it works now. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:57 AM PST US From: "Jaye Murray and Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: "Jaye Murray and Scott Jackson" My 6 has electric flaps, which leaves the space between the seats clear. It's easy to put a foot right on the metal between the seat cushions, sit on the crossmember, then pull your other leg in and put that foot on the floor, then lower yourself down while putting the first foot forward onto the floor. Scott in Vancouver ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:57 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) From: "Bruce Anthony" --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Anthony" I wouldn't look to ethanol based fuels to be the replacement for leaded aviation gasoline soon. My company has been marketing E-85 (85% ethanol and 15% gasoline) automotive fuel in Minnesota for several years now. While demand is increasing (and the fuel has an octane rating of about 110) E-85 is still a minor player in the fuel market. Some of the disincentives to alcohol aviation fuels include: 1. Engine compatibility - I suspect most A/C engines will require modification to use E-85. Only so-called "flex fueled" cars can use it now. 2. Fueling Infrastructure - don't look for it soon at an FBO near you. 3. Economics - needs a stiff tax subsidy to be competitive with gasoline though in the A/C market this is less of an issue because 100LL is more expensive than auto fuel. It also has a lower BTU content than gasoline (need more ethanol fuel to go the same distance). 4. Quality - ethanol absorbs water in storage. To a certain extent this is a safety margin you don't get with straight fuel, but absorb enough water and your engine doesn't run so good. 5. Supply - country needs more ethanol manufacturing capacity, especially if California sucks up the supply to replace MTBE (another lead substitute that has found great disfavor because of air and groundwater pollution problems). While this can be dealt with, it won't happen overnight. On the other hand, tetraethyl lead, the lead additive in 100LL, is a potent neurotoxin. Another poster pointed out that the industry will come up with a good substitue for leaded fuel when the need arises. I agree with him. In any event, fuel is one of the reasons I'm thinking of a Suburu in my RV-9A down the road. Our cars burn a mix of 10% ethanol in gasoline here in Minnesota and it works just fine. Bruce Anthony Rosemount, MN RV-9A, Wings Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:17 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; b=VuKY4eoxmn0/YGyTHk82E50aCPdjUjaGAXSYnSychoRNy9XBNFcK2F4fUedHPKzwC22ZQvOlrkIJkwt3oGjk5R+0TdpCdYryIIOXhOz4o0Y2zBJStbhysOzBiuXF9eFiS5WIQEUuh+tcXutPwPqHUItSwgU8akWKo2fBxDYff/cReceived: by 10.54.33.47 with SMTP id g47mr97026wrg; Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:20:45 -0800 (PST) From: Bob J Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: Bob J Ditto. 600 hours stepping on the DJ vinyl seats and mine still look new. I clean the seats maybe twice a year with upholstery cleaner, only takes a few minutes. Once in a while I'll have an asphalt/tar stain that just takes a little solvent to clean up, no big deal. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. > Doug after 1300 hours of stepping in and out of my 6A and usually with a > passenger, on expensive leather seats, there is only one solution IMHO, > just step on them. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 12:09:05 PM PST US From: "Dean" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" RV Listers As a farmer in an early life, and a retired Aeronautical Engineer now who helps a nephew in corn and soybean planting and harvest, I would like to point out a gross error in the "science.howstuffworks" extract. The quantity of fossil fuel required to plant, grow, and harvest an acre of corn is exaggerated by at least a factor of ten. The real world number is 10 to 12 gallons per acre total. Sort of makes a person wonder about the validity of the rest of the data. Dean Van Winkle RV-9A Fuselage/Finish ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > > In a message dated 11/1/2004 2:41:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, > rv_8pilot@hotmail.com writes: > > I've always thought it was foolish to think we could seriously consider > ethanol a significant source of fuel. Wondering just many acres it takes to > > produce a barrel of ethanol, I did a search... here's what I found. > > http://science.howstuffworks.com/question707.htm > > Interesting facts from the above link: > > 1. It takes 26.1 pounds of corn to make 1 gallon of ethanol > > 2. you need about 140 gallons (530 liters) of fossil fuel to plant, grow > and harvest an acre of corn > > 3. The final cost of the fuel-grade ethanol is about $2.49 per gallon > (corrected for $2/gal gasoline) > > > If you think that things will go this way, invest in Archer Daniels Midland, > supermarket to the world? Paul Harvey is one of their biggest fans. > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:11:43 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski 1. Engine compatibility I cant speak for every one but the way my engine is set up right now I would only have to check to see if the selector valve is compatible and enlarge the main jet. Other than that I am good to go. 2. Fueling Infrastructure: I think this could be the biggest problem of them all. 3. Economics: Yes we are only concerned about the A/C market. Yes it has lower BTU's but also puts out about 10% more power at the same power settings. So you could throttle back and not use as much. The number I hear is about 12% more GPH. 4. Quality: AGE-85 has been diluted with 10% water and the engine ran fine. Thats a lot of water! 5. Supply: I know nothing about. There are already good alternatives out there for engines with 8.5:1 compression or less. Now throw in the high performance stuff with turbo chargers and such and there is no fuel that will work for both. The problem is the High performance stuff uses about 75% of the av-gas produced. So us little people are big in numbers but small in consumption. The word is that there will NOT be 2 different types fuel.........you think fuel is expensive now!! Just want to let everyone know I got my info by calling and talking to the program director Dr. Dennis Helder South Dakota State University a few months back. At 01:12 PM 11/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Anthony" > > >I wouldn't look to ethanol based fuels to be the replacement for leaded >aviation gasoline soon. My company has been marketing E-85 (85% ethanol >and 15% gasoline) automotive fuel in Minnesota for several years >now. While demand is increasing (and the fuel has an octane rating of >about 110) E-85 is still a minor player in the fuel market. > >Some of the disincentives to alcohol aviation fuels include: > > - I suspect most A/C engines will require modification to use > E-85. Only so-called "flex fueled" cars can use it now. >2. Fueling Infrastructure - don't look for it soon at an FBO near you. >3. Economics - needs a stiff tax subsidy to be competitive with gasoline >though in the A/C market this is less of an issue because 100LL is more >expensive than auto fuel. It also has a lower BTU content than gasoline >(need more ethanol fuel to go the same distance). >4. Quality - ethanol absorbs water in storage. To a certain extent this >is a safety margin you don't get with straight fuel, but absorb enough >water and your engine doesn't run so good. > - country needs more ethanol manufacturing capacity, especially if > California sucks up the supply to replace MTBE (another lead substitute > that has found great disfavor because of air and groundwater pollution > problems). While this can be dealt with, it won't happen overnight. > >On the other hand, tetraethyl lead, the lead additive in 100LL, is a >potent neurotoxin. > >Another poster pointed out that the industry will come up with a good >substitue for leaded fuel when the need arises. I agree with him. In any >event, fuel is one of the reasons I'm thinking of a Suburu in my RV-9A >down the road. Our cars burn a mix of 10% ethanol in gasoline here in >Minnesota and it works just fine. > > >Bruce Anthony >Rosemount, MN >RV-9A, Wings > >Do Not Archive > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:46 PM PST US From: "Jack Ford" Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Topic - Presidential Poll --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Ford" What happened to Michael Badnarik, the Libertarion candidate? He was outpolling the dangit out of Nader the dictator. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: RV-List: Off Topic - Presidential Poll > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > In the spirit of election day in the USA, I've put a poll > on my website (http://www.rv8.ch/) asking who you would > like to become the next president of the United States. > > If you participate, you can tell your friends that you > voted twice! > > It will be interesting to see how the RV community sees > this election. > > Best regards, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:42 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England After the 1st batch, you no longer need the fossil fuel at all. And no Marines will be endangered to produce ethanol; surely that's worth something... Charlie Dean wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" > >RV Listers > >As a farmer in an early life, and a retired Aeronautical Engineer now who >helps a nephew in corn and soybean planting and harvest, I would like to >point out a gross error in the "science.howstuffworks" extract. The >quantity of fossil fuel required to plant, grow, and harvest an acre of corn >is exaggerated by at least a factor of ten. The real world number is 10 to >12 gallons per acre total. Sort of makes a person wonder about the validity >of the rest of the data. > >Dean Van Winkle >RV-9A Fuselage/Finish > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com >> >> >>In a message dated 11/1/2004 2:41:38 PM Pacific Standard Time, >>rv_8pilot@hotmail.com writes: >> >>I've always thought it was foolish to think we could seriously consider >>ethanol a significant source of fuel. Wondering just many acres it takes >> >> >to > > >>produce a barrel of ethanol, I did a search... here's what I found. >> >>http://science.howstuffworks.com/question707.htm >> >>Interesting facts from the above link: >> >>1. It takes 26.1 pounds of corn to make 1 gallon of ethanol >> >>2. you need about 140 gallons (530 liters) of fossil fuel to plant, grow >>and harvest an acre of corn >> >>3. The final cost of the fuel-grade ethanol is about $2.49 per gallon >>(corrected for $2/gal gasoline) >> >> >>If you think that things will go this way, invest in Archer Daniels >> >> >Midland, > > >>supermarket to the world? Paul Harvey is one of their biggest fans. >> >>GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) >> ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:52 PM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" How much ethanol can one acre be expected to produce? Marty Dean wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" > >RV Listers > >As a farmer in an early life, and a retired Aeronautical Engineer now who >helps a nephew in corn and soybean planting and harvest, I would like to >point out a gross error in the "science.howstuffworks" extract. The >quantity of fossil fuel required to plant, grow, and harvest an acre of corn >is exaggerated by at least a factor of ten. The real world number is 10 to >12 gallons per acre total. Sort of makes a person wonder about the validity >of the rest of the data. > >Dean Van Winkle >RV-9A Fuselage/Finish > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:33 PM PST US From: Kysh Subject: Re: RV-List: Off Topic - Presidential Poll --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh As Jack Ford was saying: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jack Ford" > > What happened to Michael Badnarik, the Libertarion candidate? He was > outpolling the dangit out of Nader the dictator. He got mine. -Kysh do not archive -- | 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying | | CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr | | 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang | | Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ | | KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham | | Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ | ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:29 PM PST US From: "rv6tc" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" How do you figure? You still have to harvest, and turn the soil, then re-seed. Not to mention spray for insects. Unless you are planning on harvesting with mules...... Curious. Keith do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > After the 1st batch, you no longer need the fossil fuel at all. > > And no Marines will be endangered to produce ethanol; surely that's > worth something... > > Charlie > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:34 PM PST US From: "Randy Garrett" Subject: RV-List: Radio Amplifier? --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Garrett" Would a radio amplifier that could handle AM/SSB/FM (by design) also amplify AM? Aviation radio is VHF AM. Could a ham radio amp be used to boost my signal? I realize that VHF is line-of-sight, so power is not normally a limiting factor. However, I often operate in areas with lots of interference. I can hear ATC, but they sometimes can't hear me, so I'm thinking a little more power might be a big help. Would there be any FCC issues with doing this? I am a licensed ham, and the power out would be considerably below what airline radios transmit. Thanks, Randy RV-6A 430 hours ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:37 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Assuming about 2.5 gallons per bushel & 120 bushels/acre for a nice/decent crop, then around 300 gallons. Just my quick estimations....of course these numbers vay wildly because corn crops can range from 100 to upwards of 200 bushels per acre in some parts of the world. Claimed "net gains" for ethanol range from 2:1 up to 10:1 (gallons of ethanol produced for gallons of fossil fuel used). No, I'm not a corn farmer, nor am I taking sides on this issue, just presenting numbers I've seen. I only keep up on this because our state (MN) is looking to mandate an increase in Ethanol from 10% up to 20% in our gasoline. Cheers, Stein Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Marty Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" How much ethanol can one acre be expected to produce? Marty Dean wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" > >RV Listers > >As a farmer in an early life, and a retired Aeronautical Engineer now who >helps a nephew in corn and soybean planting and harvest, I would like to >point out a gross error in the "science.howstuffworks" extract. The >quantity of fossil fuel required to plant, grow, and harvest an acre of corn >is exaggerated by at least a factor of ten. The real world number is 10 to >12 gallons per acre total. Sort of makes a person wonder about the validity >of the rest of the data. > >Dean Van Winkle >RV-9A Fuselage/Finish > >----- Original Message ----- >From: >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:39 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: Lights --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube I'm writing from work. I'm the guy that makes the LED position light kits (Bill VonDane sells one style of my LED position lights on his http://www.CreativAir.com website.) A couple of folks on the list wanted to know more about the LED position lights, and Bill VonDane's landing lights. >>>> LED Position lights <<<< So far, I have zero complaints about the LED position lights. I have sold a bunch of them to a lot of different people, so the total lack of complaints is a pretty good recommendation. Also, only a couple of folks have had any questions/problems assembling the kits. This tells me that the instructions are pretty good. When I get customer feedback, it is generally something like, "Wow, these things are bright!" >>>> CreativAir Landing lights <<< I have installed Bill VonDane's landing lights on my wings and they put out a bunch of light. Since I haven't built the fuselage yet, I can't give any flight reports on the landing lights. : ) Bill VonDane also makes a strobe kit. I haven't seen it myself, but I have heard nothing negative about it. Seems to work just fine, so I am told. Bill Dube' http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:06 PM PST US From: "Kevin Shannon" Subject: RV-List: leaving a floater --> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Shannon" Looks like my question about using float type senders with the high tech EFIS systems is answered as follows: Works with Blue Mountain EFIS, plugs right in Works with Grand Rapids System Works with Vision Microsystems see below I think I will just go with the old tried and true floaters then. Nothing to calibrate or adapt. They will work just fine someday when we are all flying around on corn squeezins too. Has anyone ever had a float type sender fail in an RV? Kevin Shannon -----Original Message----- From: Technical Support [mailto:support@visionmicrosystems.com] Subject: RE: Fuel senders Hello Kevin, What system are you looking at? The VM1000C will work with floats. Best Regards David McCluskey Technical Support 4151 Mitchell Way Bellingham, WA 98226 (360) 714-8203 Fax (360) 714-8253 -----Original Message----- From: Kevin Shannon [mailto:kshannon@seanet.com] Subject: Fuel senders Hi, will resistance float type senders work for fuel level? I already have these in my tanks in an RV8 Thanks Kevin Shannon Superintendent Severson Construction, LLC ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:26 PM PST US From: RobHickman@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: leaving a floater --> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com Kevin, The ACS2002 engine monitor will work with Floats or Capacitance probes. I had a float sendor fail in my RV-4 at 200 hours. I also know of a few others around Portland, OR. that have had the floats fail. Mine and the others that I have seen were the old style with the metal housings so hopefully the new plastic ones are better. Rob Hickman N401 RV-4 N402 RV-10 (Under Construction) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:14:52 PM PST US From: "Marty" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "Marty" Ok this is what I've discovered in about 20 minutes by googling. Lets start with the tractor. On average, new John Deere tractors that are of the same type used in Agriculture around here (Central Indiana, we grow A LOT of corn here!) use roughly 15 gal/hr. And I would estimate they travel at approx 5 mph while they work the fields. So we're talking around 3 gal per mile. Most implements used around here are close to 30 feet wide, so that makes 158,400 square feet of field tilled per linear mile traveled. An acre is approx 209 feet on a side, or 43,560 square feet to be more precise (at least this is the figure I found on the web.) So 158,400 divided by 43,560 yields 3.636363 acres per linear mile, for roughly .825 gallons of fuel per acre for a single pass. Now unless I'm WAY off in my estimates (anyone more knowledgeable feel free to chime in) or my math skills suddenly took a vacation, I don't think we're looking at much more than 12-13 gallons of fossil fuel per acre, including allowances for grain trucks to haul the harvest to the grain towers and for herbicide and insecticide spraying (if you've never seen one of those sprayers, they look like a very large ATV with spray booms that are at least 20 feet to each side and travel through a field at close to 30 miles per hour! Quite a site to see one racing through a recently sown corn field. My kids get a kick out of the 'overgrown 4-wheelers'!) Marty -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rv6tc Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" How do you figure? You still have to harvest, and turn the soil, then re-seed. Not to mention spray for insects. Unless you are planning on harvesting with mules...... Curious. Keith ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:59 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: donation --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Matronics 2004 Email List Fund Raiser [PLEASE READ] Tuesday's Schedule wake up pee vote - thank you Veterans donate to email lists - thank you Matt take nap fart - or go to work, whichever seems like more fun finish oil change and post-maintenance test fly RV eat fall asleep - dream about flying RV - not as much fun, but costs less ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:38 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England When you drill for oil, you use oil to run the drill. When you farm for ethanol, you (can) farm with ethanol. Not saying it will happen tomorrow, but the petro-economy didn't happen overnight either. FWIW, you can farm the 1st crop right now with bio- diesel. Charlie rv6tc wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" > >How do you figure? You still have to harvest, and turn the soil, then >re-seed. Not to mention spray for insects. Unless you are planning on >harvesting with mules...... > >Curious. > >Keith > >do not archive > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Charlie England" >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England >> >>After the 1st batch, you no longer need the fossil fuel at all. >> >>And no Marines will be endangered to produce ethanol; surely that's >>worth something... >> >>Charlie >> ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:56 PM PST US From: Scott VanArtsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: donation --> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen Man you live my dream life! Please do not archive that. Wheeler North wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >Subject: RV-List: Matronics 2004 Email List Fund Raiser [PLEASE READ] > > >Tuesday's Schedule > >wake up >pee >vote - thank you Veterans >donate to email lists - thank you Matt >take nap >fart - or go to work, whichever seems like more fun >finish oil change and post-maintenance test fly RV >eat >fall asleep - dream about flying RV - not as much fun, but costs less > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:46 PM PST US From: "Gabe A Ferrer" Subject: RV-List: Re: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: "Gabe A Ferrer" Passengers in my RV6 step on my leather cushions when getting in or out. No problem. Just make sure that they are not wearing high heels. I don't need to step on the cushions getting in or out. I place my butt on the top of the back rest, swing my legs in and let my calves rest on the forward edge of the buttom cushion. I then slide down with my right hand initially holding on to the back rest and my left hand holding on to the longeron. To get out I reverse the procedure. Gabe A Ferrer RV6 N2GX 137 hours South Florida ferrergm@bellsouth.net cell: 561 758 8894 ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:21:16 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Leather cleaning (wuz the old in&out question) --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 11/02/2004 1:22:44 PM Central Standard Time, rocketbob@gmail.com writes: 600 hours stepping on the DJ vinyl seats and mine still look new. I clean the seats maybe twice a year with upholstery cleaner, only takes a few minutes. >>>>>> Before I bug DJ or ruin her beautiful leather seats, has anyone tried those new Armor-all leather wipes? Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:33 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel senders to float or not to float --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" WHAT ? ? ? & create all those "Greenhouse" and Global Warming...ah...ah...ah... GASES 8*) KABONG HRII N561FS Do Not Archive > How do you figure? You still have to harvest, and turn the soil, then > re-seed. Not to mention spray for insects. Unless you are planning on > harvesting with mules...... >> After the 1st batch, you no longer need the fossil fuel at all. >> surely that's >> worth something... >> >> Charlie ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:12 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Fuels (was Fuel Senders...) --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Scott Bilinski wrote: >Yes it has lower BTU's but also puts out about 10% more power at >the same power settings. > > I'm confused. How can it have less BTU's and still put out more power? BTU is an energy unit and Power is Energy over time. So if ethanol has fewer BTU's per gallon, how could you possibly get 10% more power at the same GPH flow? This is probably a bad estimate, and probably changes a lot with scale. In the model airplane world if you have a big bird you want to convert from a nitro-methane engine to a gas engine, the general rule of thumb is you only need half as much fuel by volume. Now diesel seems the way to go, more BTU's per lbs and more lbs per gallon... it's like getting long range tanks for free. Of course there is the whole needing a new engine part. I just hope by the time I get building Deltahawk or some other manufacture will have a 180+ hp diesel with all the bugs worked out. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:01 PM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Its easy if you install a couple of handles on the rollover bar. I got some computer main frame aluminum pull handles from someone on the list. Easy to install and I will never have one without them. Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Entering and exiting an RV-6 (or 7 or 9) > --> RV-List message posted by: dmedema@att.net > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that would swing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > > I've been thinking about the seats for my RV-6A and have > struggled with the issue of getting in and out of the plane without > damaging the seats. It seems like the only way to get in and out > includes standing on the seat. I've thought about trying to make > the seat in two pieces, kind of a front and back part. The front > would be easily removable so you could step on metal while > getting in and then replace the front part after you're in the plane. > This doesn't seem real practical to me though. I was discussing > this with my wife last night and she mentioned "jump seats." Now > I have a Ford Ranger pickup extended cab and it has two small > seats that fold into the sides of the truck behind the main seat. > This got me thinking about the possibility of having some kind of > frame that wouldswing up for entry and exit and would fold down > as you sat on it. I think I would try to make it hinged somehow, > maybe like a theater seat, possibly with a spring to raise it when > not loaded. When down, the loads would be on the airplane floor > and not on the moving seat frame. I realize this will add some > weight, the challenge would be to minimize it. It also has some > issues with moving the seat back fore-and-aft, but I might just > give up that feature and keep the seat backs in one position. > > So, how are you people, who have spent quite a bit of money on > your nice seats, keeping them nice? Do you move them out of the > way or just step on them? Any unique ideas out there for moving > the seats out of the way? > > Thanks, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM > > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:21 PM PST US From: "Konrad Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Fuels --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" Dear Chris, >>...more BTU's per lbs and more lbs per gallon... it's like getting long range tanks for free...<< This does sound like a double dipping winner, when in reality it is more like a even out kind of compensator, no? More LBS / GAL more weight to carry per gallon of fuel. More BTU / LBS more energy per gallon to carry said weight. Bottom line: More energy content to carry the higher weight penalty maybe even? But maybe I am confused and see this all wrong? Am I wrong? Konrad >> Now diesel seems the way to go, more BTU's per lbs and more lbs per gallon... it's like getting long range tanks for free. Of course there is the whole needing a new engine part. I just hope by the time I get building Deltahawk or some other manufacture will have a 180+ hp diesel with all the bugs worked out. Chris W. << ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 10:07:58 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternative Fuels --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Konrad Werner wrote: >This does sound like a double dipping winner, when in reality it is more like a even out kind of compensator, no? >More LBS / GAL more weight to carry per gallon of fuel. >More BTU / LBS more energy per gallon to carry said weight. >Bottom line: More energy content to carry the higher weight penalty maybe even? > >But maybe I am confused and see this all wrong? Am I wrong? > > Unless I understand it wrong, and I don't think I do, you are reading it wrong. Think of it this way. . . 10 lbs of diesel will take you farther than 10 lbs of LL100. Here we have a win. you can fit more lbs of diesel in the same size tank than you can LL100. Win some more. So it is a win win situation In the first case we get more range per pound of flying weight. In the second we effectively get a larger tank. With the numbers Deltahawk has published, an RV7 could have a range of nearly 1,000 statute miles. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. http://thewishzone.com