---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/07/04: 27 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:13 AM - Re: Prop Gov bracket (Larry Bowen) 2. 05:29 AM - GRT EFIS w/G-meter and ILS on (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 3. 06:09 AM - Re: Rocket-List: RMI - MicroMonitor (FRED LAFORGE) 4. 07:02 AM - Re: RMI - MicroMonitor (Jerry Springer) 5. 07:24 AM - backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (thomas a. sargent) 6. 08:04 AM - Re: Nutplate jigs (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 7. 08:16 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 8. 08:17 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Vanremog@aol.com) 9. 08:47 AM - Check lists (or: how to avoid full flap take offs) (Kosta Lewis) 10. 08:47 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Denis Walsh) 11. 08:57 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Stein Bruch) 12. 08:57 AM - Re: RMI - MicroMonitor (JOHN STARN) 13. 09:09 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Konrad Werner) 14. 09:44 AM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (Trampas) 15. 10:14 AM - Re: Nutplate jigs (Charlie England) 16. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Nutplate jigs (HAL KEMPTHORNE) 17. 12:34 PM - Re: Nutplate jigs (Charlie Kuss) 18. 01:41 PM - Countersinks on Wing Spar... (Matt Johnson) 19. 03:45 PM - Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (Steve Waltner) 20. 03:59 PM - Re: Prop Gov bracket (John Furey) 21. 06:45 PM - Subject: Re: Special N-Number reservation (Joe & Jan Connell) 22. 06:55 PM - Re: RMI - MicroMonitor (DWENSING@aol.com) 23. 07:05 PM - Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) (steve zicree) 24. 07:44 PM - Instrument Panel Etching (Mark Taylor) 25. 09:25 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Etching (Bruce Gray) 26. 09:37 PM - Re: Instrument Panel Etching (Paul Besing) 27. 11:27 PM - Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge (thomas a. sargent) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:02 AM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Here is a pic of my bracket on my O-360 with Woodward governor. http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=35 I had to elongate, ever so slightly, the mounting holes to get it to fit the aft end of the governor. Don't know if that helps or not... - Larry Bowen, RV-8, 19.7 Hrs. Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Furey [mailto:john@fureychrysler.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 9:29 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" > > I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an > elongated hole in the bracket and it attatched to the small > screws on the Gov. Did I get a bracket for a different Gov by > mistake or does the RV7 use a different one than a 6?? Any > pictures out there? > > Thanks, > John > > > ========= > ========= > Matronics Forums. > ========= > ========= > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:56 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS w/G-meter and ILS on --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html Here's the GRT EFIS in some particular ILS mode (hence the yellow crosshairs) and you see in the lower left corner the G meter displayed and lower right the wind speed/direction digits/graphic. Makes the 'is it in my personal limits safe to land' decision at that farmer's field a little less sporty during crosswinds. The actual GRT display is much higher quality. When went from bitmap to jpg and sized it up to be closer to full scale the resolution went down for sure. do not archive lucky http://home.comcast.net/~luckymacy/rv8.html Here's the GRT EFIS in some particular ILS mode (hence the yellow crosshairs) and you see in thelower left corner the G meter displayed and lower right the wind speed/direction digits/graphic. Makes the'is it in my personal limits safe to land' decisionat that farmer's field a little less sporty during crosswinds. The actual GRT display is much higher quality. When went from bitmap to jpg and sized it up to be closer to full scale the resolution went down for sure. do not archive lucky ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:01 AM PST US From: "FRED LAFORGE" Subject: RV-List: Re: Rocket-List: RMI - MicroMonitor --> RV-List message posted by: "FRED LAFORGE" Tom, I like my micro monitor , it`s not the fanciest display but it has been reliable in my RV-4. Im going to put on in my rocket too. Fred LaForge RV-4 0-360 CS EAA Tech Counselor ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Rocket-List: RMI - MicroMonitor > --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > Long Report on the problem, support from the factory, and the repair of > The Rocky Mountain Instrument - MicroMonitor. > > > Do Not Archive > > > During the building process, I had to decide which engine monitor I wanted > yet could afford to install in my plane. Remember, this was before the > latest several monitors became available. Anyway, RMI unit was chosen. I > have a friend who is Electrical Engineer and he said he said it would be > fun to build the unit so the kit was ordered. During the assembly > process, he reported that it was the best electronic kit he had ever > worked on. During installation, two sensors didn't appear to work > properly and the company quickly sent out replaces after asking if we were > sure that they were installed properly. Of course, we said we were sure. > After the sensors arrived, it was found the we had wired them improperly > (the company didn't say I told you so but were happy to learn that we had > solved the problem. > > > For the next two years, the unit worked perfectly and just as advertised. > Then the unit started to have problems. It would reset itself, lock up, > and or just display incorrect data. An email to RMI and they sent a > troubleshooting manual the next day. Again with the help of the EE, we > started to find and fix the problem. As we had not changed anything, it > had to be in the "box" but test after test showed the box was working > correctly. Finally, we were able to determine that three sensors that > were acting up all used a 10 volt input. After checking each sensor, we > found that the connectors for the oil temperature were no longer protected > by shrink-wrap and was shorting out when the engine was running. How does > shrink-wrap disappear? I was sure that we never did any maintenance on > the sensor. Then I remember that we had removed the engine and it turns > out the over-haulers most likely removed the oil temperature probe. As I > had hardwired it, they had to cut the wires ! > and it was up to us to reconnect everything. (As a side note, when Jack > Starn AKA KABONG starting helping me over five years ago, I told him every > good thing I would credit for and he would have to accept all the blame > for all the mistakes.) Therefore, Jack didn't do a good job of putting > everything back together. > > > Good - The RMI unit works great. The company support is excellent. Any > problems were user generated. > > > Bad - Jack. :-) > > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket-II > > do not archive > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:02:50 AM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: RMI - MicroMonitor --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer I have RMIs MicroEncoder which has given me 15 years of trouble free service. It is my favorite flight instrument. As someone else said the kit and building instructions were superb. Jerry Jim Jewell wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > >Tom, > >Rocky Mountain Instruments treated me to the same above and beyond the call >standard of customer service. Very satisfying indeed! > >Fairings Etc. did the same! > >Pacific Aero Harness (recently shut down) (|:-( was another worthy of >mention. > >Jim in Kelowna > >do not archive > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tom Gummo" >To: "RV List" >Subject: RV-List: RMI - MicroMonitor > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" >> >>Long Report on the problem, support from the factory, and the repair of >>The Rocky Mountain Instrument - MicroMonitor. >> >> >>Do Not Archive >> >> >>During the building process, I had to decide which engine monitor I wanted >>yet could afford to install in my plane. Remember, this was before the >>latest several monitors became available. Anyway, RMI unit was chosen. I >>have a friend who is Electrical Engineer and he said he said it would be >>fun to build the unit so the kit was ordered. During the assembly >>process, he reported that it was the best electronic kit he had ever >>worked on. During installation, two sensors didn't appear to work >>properly and the company quickly sent out replaces after asking if we were >>sure that they were installed properly. Of course, we said we were sure. >>After the sensors arrived, it was found the we had wired them improperly >>(the company didn't say I told you so but were happy to learn that we had >>solved the problem. >> >> >>For the next two years, the unit worked perfectly and just as advertised. >>Then the unit started to have problems. It would reset itself, lock up, >>and or just display incorrect data. An email to RMI and they sent a >>troubleshooting manual the next day. Again with the help of the EE, we >>started to find and fix the problem. As we had not changed anything, it >>had to be in the "box" but test after test showed the box was working >>correctly. Finally, we were able to determine that three sensors that >>were acting up all used a 10 volt input. After checking each sensor, we >>found that the connectors for the oil temperature were no longer protected >>by shrink-wrap and was shorting out when the engine was running. How does >>shrink-wrap disappear? I was sure that we never did any maintenance on >>the sensor. Then I remember that we had removed the engine and it turns >>out the over-haulers most likely removed the oil temperature probe. As I >>had hardwired it, they had to cut the wires ! >>and it was up to us to reconnect everything. (As a side note, when Jack >>Starn AKA KABONG starting helping me over five years ago, I told him every >>good thing I would credit for and he would have to accept all the blame >>for all the mistakes.) Therefore, Jack didn't do a good job of putting >>everything back together. >> >> >>Good - The RMI unit works great. The company support is excellent. Any >>problems were user generated. >> >> >>Bad - Jack. :-) >> >> >>Tom Gummo >>Apple Valley, CA >>Harmon Rocket-II >> >>do not archive >> >>http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:52 AM PST US From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:15 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Nutplate jigs --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Mickey, For the wingtip nutplates, I glassed them in. Just drill the holes for clecos, then enlarge them for 6-32 screws, and screw in the nutplates with short screws, or with lots of nuts, washers, etc., to hold them on to the tips (tips off the wings at this point). First rough up the inside of the wing tips with 60 grit paper. Now use 2 layers of fiberglass about 3/4 to 1 inch wide running the length (cord) of the tip. You can do them all at once, no drilling and no rivets. Just spread the weave of the glass where it goes over the nutplates as you lay the wet glass strips down. The nutplates make a good centering pilot for hand countersinking for the dimpled skins. A good place to get a taste of epoxy! Nothing critical about it, it'll never be seen. This also worked for the nutplates that hold the tip lens in place, no rivets here either. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) In a message dated 11/6/04 11:33:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mick-matronics@rv8.ch writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi Charlie, > > Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working > on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the > baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > > Mickey ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:44 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 11/7/04 10:26:40 AM US Eastern Standard Time, sarg314@earthlink.net writes: > > Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I > could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how > much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > > Tom, How will this tell you how effective the oil cooler is? If you measure 2 degrees of drop across the cooler, it may be lowering the oil temperature by 20 degrees, because the oil entering the cooler has already been cooled. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:05 AM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 11/7/2004 7:26:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, sarg314@earthlink.net writes: I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil pressure gauge and oil temperature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? ======================================= IMO not worth the effort. The VM1000 system is a very well designed and time tested appliance. The only problems of which I am aware are related to the fuel flow sender and a memory/battery module, and that was due to infant mortality. Aside from that, the unit works very well and will likely give many thousands of hours of good service. I would go with the same unit today except for the fact that they now have merged with JPI, with whom I still have a beef. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:30 AM PST US From: "Kosta Lewis" Subject: RV-List: Check lists (or: how to avoid full flap take offs) --> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" I have found that if I am going to forget something or do something that is not my usual routine, it is usually with a distracting passenger on board. And they don't have to be that good looking. That is one of the many reasons to have check lists (you DO have check lists, don't you?). I will occasionally hand my check list to my passenger and have them read off the items. Makes them feel like part of the flight crew, especially kids. I know the sequences well enough that if they skip over something (just go down the numbers, son) I will ask them if they just skipped something. (Oh, yeah: boost pump on. Sorry.) You can't or don't want to do that with everyone. Then my thumb is going down the numbers so I don't forget something. Are these THAT complex an airplane? Yes, in a lot of ways. In the Cub, CIGARS etc. is good enough. I can (and do, usually) leave the door open on the Cub; that would be a slight error in the -4. My after runup, pre-takeoff check list is something I say out loud from memory, whether someone is with me or not. If someone is in the back, it precludes them from talking while I am doing important stuff in the front office except to say "Yes" when I get to "Seatbelts: locked" and ask them (again) if theirs is, then continue down the list, which, by the way, includes: "Flaps set: 20 degrees". I exceeded flap speed once when I had to go around and get fitted in with one airplane in the pattern and two coming in. 20 degrees at 130 mph. But it was how the airplane FELT that gave me a hint. I guess I know Suzie Q well enough that if I had full flaps on takeoff or as she sped up, I would know quickly that something was amiss. Millions of trained neurons would be screaming for my attention. I always pull flaps up at 80 knots, so it is part of my usual take off routine. But we all have "friends" that have done silly things............... Glad our gear is down and welded. Know your airplane: fly often. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Do not archive Has "trim your posts" been taken off the list of things to do when replying? ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:30 AM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh I ordered the double function pressure switch from vans and therefore have a backup which is a low pressure warning. I like it. On Nov 7, 2004, at 8:24 AM, thomas a. sargent wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" > > > I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. > I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, > that's > a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer > programmer, > I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was > wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure > gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. > > Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just > being paranoid? > > Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I > could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how > much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:53 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi Tom, Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing 777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my point. You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it, don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS side. Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower quality EFIs systems out there). Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a. sargent Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:58 AM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: RMI - MicroMonitor --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" Yes Sir, My Fault. Major Gummo, Sir........... 8*) JACK, John H., KABONG (ex-S/Sgt USAF, Det. Sgt Fontana PD) (As a side note: For those of you that have been at the hanger, APV, Pt. Mugu, Bakersfield or OSH.) Do you hear the sound of a raised BUZZZZZER ? 8*) KABONG Subject: RV-List: RMI - MicroMonitor RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Long Report on the problem, support from the factory, and the repair of The Rocky Mountain Instrument - MicroMonitor. Do Not Archive (As a side note, when Jack Starn AKA KABONG starting helping me over five years ago, I told him every good thing I would credit for and he would have to accept all the blame for all the mistakes.) Therefore, Jack didn't do a good job of putting everything back together. Bad - Jack. :-) Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:54 AM PST US From: "Konrad Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad Werner" Tom, Even if the VM1000 should fail you, you won't fall out of the sky, as it is not a necessity to fly. Your engine temps don't depend on the display either, so they should stay where they were before the display went Tango Uniform. Don't overcomplicate things and don't forget to fly the bird when the monitor goes dark. If there is still noise up front, then you are in good shape. Konrad do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: thomas a. sargent To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 8:24 AM Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:20 AM PST US From: "Trampas" Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "Trampas" When comparing engine monitors compare them to other "embedded" devices. For example when was the last time you had to reboot your VCR? How about your car? Think about it, just about everything has a computer in it now. Microwave, Refrigerator, thermostats, Heat Pumps, Stove, TV, calculator, etc, yet everyone compares electronic engine devices to PCs, and 80's car computers. I have heard rumors that some of newer EFIS systems are using DOS/Windows CE. If you are worried than ask! Regards, Trampas www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Hi Tom, Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing 777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my point. You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it, don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS side. Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower quality EFIs systems out there). Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a. sargent Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:14:00 AM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Nutplate jigs --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Mickey Coggins wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > >Hi Charlie, > >Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working >on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the >baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > >Mickey > > > >>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool >>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the >>nutplate areas prepunched. >> >> > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a custom fitted area. The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor nutplates. Charlie ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:17 AM PST US From: HAL KEMPTHORNE Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Nutplate jigs --> RV-List message posted by: HAL KEMPTHORNE I sat down and poured another cup of coffee from my thermos which I use to keep it from boiling away. It hissed when I poured it into my cup it was so hot in Stockton (SCK) that day. Maybe the heat also was doing something to my brain but I sat and counted just how many steps it takes to install a platenute. I came up with 21, using the jig. Makes me realize why so many machines are built with sheet metal screws. Drill holes, slap in screws. Jigs like this are used extensively in factory production to increase production quantity and quality at the same time. Any operation that is being done repetitively should be considered for application of either a jig or a fixture. A jig holds or guides the tool. A fixture holds or guides the workpiece. What is really needed is a three chuck (multi-spindle) drill. Check this one out http://www.commandermultidrill.com/catalog/appl/multi1.pdf This company has small 2 spindle drills and many others. I want one! I am sure I can find a need for drilling 24 holes at once. hal ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:40 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Nutplate jigs --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss >Mickey Coggins wrote: > > >Hi Charlie, > > > >Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working > >on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the > >baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > > > >Mickey > > > > > > > >>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool > >>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the > >>nutplate areas prepunched. > >> > >> > > > >-- > >Mickey Coggins > >http://www.rv8.ch/ > >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > >I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing >roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a >custom fitted area. > >The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor >nutplates. > >Charlie Listers, Are the newer 8 floors pre-punched for nutplates? Mine 80372 wasn't. It simply had pilot holes for the screws in the floor skins. All underlying structure was undrilled. To those who are not yet to the fuselage stage, Vans only uses #8 screws on the most forward cockpit floor skins. This entails the area under the pilot's seat and the foot wells for the GIB (which are on either side of the pilot's seat). Charlie Kuss ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:04 PM PST US From: "Matt Johnson" Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Johnson" I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and how do you prevent it? - Matt www.rv7a.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:31 PM PST US From: Steve Waltner Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Waltner On Nov 7, 2004, at 3:55 PM, Matt Johnson wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Johnson" > > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the > fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly > round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a > problem? and > how do you prevent it? > > - Matt > www.rv7a.com I ran into the same issue and made a post about it to the RV-8 Yahoo group last year around Christmas time. Hopefully this repost will help... ============== I ran into the same issue with poor countersunk holes when trying to follow Van's instructions. I found the process outlined on Dan Checkoway's web site much easier. http://www.rvproject.com/20020503.html I ran a bit through each of the holes to get them up to the "correct" size, then took the scrap bar stock from what formed the W-726 tie-down spacers and clamped that to the back side of the flange. I used a drill bit to get the two holes alligned, then I was able to use the countersink bit and drill down to the full size. With the bar stock clamped to the back side of the flange, the CS bit didn't wander around as the hole was enlarged. I've got a couple picture posted at: http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-1.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-2.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-3.jpg Steve ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:59:18 PM PST US From: "John Furey" Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" Thanks for the picture. You have the "other" bracket that I saw. That is not the one Vans now sells for the MT but it may be what I end up with. Thanks, John ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:45:16 PM PST US From: "Joe & Jan Connell" Subject: Subject: Re: RV-List: Special N-Number reservation --> RV-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell" Listers, I'd like to add my experience regarding N-number reservation. Some years back I built a Kitfox and applied for the special N-number reservation when construction was nearly completed. FAA notified the State of MN and they promptly assessed me use tax (sales tax) on the kit, engine, and propeller. This was because I had not paid sales tax when I bought these components from the SkyStar plant in Idaho. Furthermore they assessed me a penalty for late payment of these taxes. I was able to plead my way out of the penalty but the use tax was still applied. Now that I'm building an RV-9A, I made an early N-number reservation and have been paying the use tax as I go on the empennage, wing, fuselage, and finishing kits. This spreads the use tax and avoids late payment assessments when I'm finally done. I've noted that the yearly MN sticker fee is declining. While the plane is designated "under construction" the fee is waived. Apparently the State of MN is showing a reduced value for the air frame each year it is under construction -- similar to the reduced assessment in auto license plates as the car gets older... Either way the State gets its way. Joe Connell, RV-9A, N95JJ, #90216, Instrument Panel. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:55 PM PST US From: DWENSING@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RMI - MicroMonitor --> RV-List message posted by: DWENSING@aol.com In a message dated 11/6/04 7:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, T.gummo@verizon.net writes: > Finally, we were able to determine that three sensors that were acting up > all used a 10 volt input. After checking each sensor, we found that the > connectors for the oil temperature were no longer protected by shrink-wrap and was > shorting out when the engine was running. As a matter of interest.....I experienced the same results from the unit when I had the oil pressure wire leads reversed when first installed. My pressure transducer has no indication which terminal is +. Dale Ensing do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:32 PM PST US From: "steve zicree" Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" Don't know if it will make a difference in your situation, but I've found that the single flute countersinks do a much nicer job than the multi-fluted type. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Johnson" Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Johnson" > > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and > how do you prevent it? > > - Matt > www.rv7a.com > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:26 PM PST US From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Taylor" Listers, I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel, paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling. I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me know. Thanks a bunch. Mark. http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/ ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:59 PM PST US From: "Bruce Gray" Subject: RE: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Try Wayne at www.engravers.net Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Taylor" Listers, I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel, paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling. I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me know. Thanks a bunch. Mark. http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:23 PM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: Re: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I've heard it doesn't hold up very well. There are alternatives. See: http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/panel/panel.htm Steve Davis does excellent work. do not archive Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Taylor" Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Taylor" > > Listers, > > I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel, > paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat > away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling. > > I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but > if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me > know. > > Thanks a bunch. > > Mark. > http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/ > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:27:29 PM PST US From: "thomas a. sargent" Subject: Re: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" Although resistance is futile, I have not yet been assimilated into the ranks of the windows programmers. Stein Bruch wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Hi Tom, > > Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT > use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're > a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of > unreliable operating systems. > -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A do not archive