Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:50 AM - Happy Birthday, Marines (John Lawson)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (David E. Nelson)
3. 05:58 AM - Aerotech Services - fuel bladders (sjhdcl@kingston.net)
4. 05:59 AM - Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems (Bob Hodgson)
5. 06:05 AM - Canopy Stop - Plastic Cam Device (RV_8 Pilot)
6. 06:27 AM - Re: Happy Birthday, Marines (LarryRobertHelming)
7. 06:42 AM - RV-6 FS ()
8. 06:42 AM - Inverted Oil Systems (Glen Matejcek)
9. 07:08 AM - Re: Re:Stall Horn (RV_8 Pilot)
10. 07:09 AM - RV7 Gear legs For Sale (Darwin Barrie)
11. 07:24 AM - AOA Utility (Valovich, Paul)
12. 07:29 AM - Re: Inverted Oil Systems (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
13. 07:40 AM - Re: Re:Stall Horn (RV_8 Pilot)
14. 08:07 AM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (BRUCE GRAY)
15. 08:19 AM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (BRUCE GRAY)
16. 08:20 AM - Re: AOA Utility (Scott VanArtsdalen)
17. 08:29 AM - Re: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems (Stein Bruch)
18. 08:31 AM - RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (Philip Condon)
19. 08:45 AM - Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) (Philip Condon)
20. 08:46 AM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (Evan and Megan Johnson)
21. 08:47 AM - Bill Esther Engraving (Bruce Bell)
22. 09:07 AM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (steve zicree)
23. 09:13 AM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (steve zicree)
24. 09:32 AM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (923te)
25. 09:38 AM - Re: Bill Esther Engraving (Dan Checkoway)
26. 09:57 AM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (Scott VanArtsdalen)
27. 10:01 AM - Re: Stall warning etc. (EMAproducts@aol.com)
28. 10:03 AM - Re: Re:Stall Horn;getting old (Jeff Dowling)
29. 10:13 AM - Re: Re:Stall Horn, getting less relevant all the time (Jeff Dowling)
30. 10:17 AM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (Jeff Dowling)
31. 10:23 AM - Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
32. 10:33 AM - Re: Re:Stall Horn (czechsix@juno.com)
33. 10:34 AM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (Raven Hunter Studios)
34. 10:52 AM - Re: Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs (Terry Watson)
35. 11:11 AM - Re: Bill Esther Engraving ()
36. 11:29 AM - Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re:Stall Horn (Matt Prather)
37. 11:49 AM - 24 Years of the RV-ator are here (Aircraft Technical Book Company)
38. 12:05 PM - Re: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) (Raven Hunter Studios)
39. 12:13 PM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (David E. Nelson)
40. 12:28 PM - Re: Re: Stall warning etc. ()
41. 12:43 PM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (David E. Nelson)
42. 12:49 PM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (BRUCE GRAY)
43. 02:31 PM - Prop cable ()
44. 02:32 PM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (Bob)
45. 02:35 PM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (Brian Denk)
46. 02:39 PM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (Ed Anderson)
47. 03:09 PM - Re: Re: Stall warning etc. (Bob)
48. 04:02 PM - Re: Prop cable (richard dudley)
49. 04:06 PM - Bill Esther Found! (Bruce Bell)
50. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Stall warning etc. (Greg@itmack)
51. 04:32 PM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (RVer273sb@aol.com)
52. 04:35 PM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (RVer273sb@aol.com)
53. 05:04 PM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (Evan and Megan Johnson)
54. 05:12 PM - Re: Prop cable (Jim Jewell)
55. 05:19 PM - Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) (David Nelson)
56. 05:19 PM - Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) (Jim Jewell)
57. 05:35 PM - Re: Prop cable (John Furey)
58. 05:47 PM - Re: Re:Stall Horn (Dave Bristol)
59. 06:07 PM - Re: Stall warning etc. (Howard Walrath)
60. 06:07 PM - Re: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
61. 06:25 PM - Re: Prop cable (923te)
62. 06:44 PM - RV-9A QB rivet access. (Pete Howell)
63. 07:05 PM - RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon (Keith T Uhls)
64. 07:08 PM - Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range (Bruno)
65. 07:09 PM - Re: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems (Scott Jackson)
66. 07:19 PM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight (Ed Holyoke)
67. 07:19 PM - Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs (davercook)
68. 08:29 PM - Canopy Unlock Incidents (Richard Sipp)
69. 08:44 PM - Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu (Dave Bristol)
70. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: Stall warning etc. (Richard Sipp)
71. 09:02 PM - Re: Re: Stall warning etc. (Jim Jewell)
72. 09:53 PM - AOA (DEAN PSIROPOULOS)
73. 10:10 PM - Re: AOA (Jerry Springer)
74. 10:38 PM - Re: Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org (steve zicree)
75. 10:38 PM - Re: Nutplate jigs (linn walters)
76. 10:45 PM - Re: (linn walters)
77. 11:05 PM - Re: AOA (steve zicree)
78. 11:07 PM - Re: AOA (steve zicree)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Happy Birthday, Marines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Lawson" <jlawson@grosseileairport.com>
To all the Marines on the List: Happy 229th Birthday!
Semper Fidelis,
John
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to bend
the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and possibly
jam.
http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
Regards,
/\/elson
RV-7A
Austin, TX
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
>
> I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing
> kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm
> to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner
> of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there
> the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if
> you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm
> in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow
> and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox.
> 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided
> it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> right fuel tank.
>
> I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be
> honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only
> when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90
> degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> she'll probably break clean off on you.
>
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Aerotech Services - fuel bladders |
--> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl@kingston.net
Does anyone experience using fuel tank bladders from Aerotech Services?
http://www.aerotechservicesinc.com/
I'm considering using this company to provide ferry tanks for my RV7A.
Steve
RV7A #2
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hodgson" <bob@hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk>
Gary,
Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
before.
It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the
Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
separator to the breather fitting.
Second difference, it's cheaper!
Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit
(vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
wants this, get in touch.
Bob (UK)
RV3B "finishing" (?)
----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
> oil system?
>
> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Canopy Stop - Plastic Cam Device |
0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From: contains an underline and numbers/letters
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
I saw a neat device this weekend used to stop the canopy on an -8. It had a
machined plastic component attached to the canopy rail near the middle of
the canopy. The component attached to the moving canopy frame looked like a
lobe off a cam. Was very ingenious device that stopped the canopy mid way,
but required no pic to pull or latch to disengage. Just pull it forward and
it released.
Anyone know where I can get one of these?
Thanks
Bryan Jones
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Happy Birthday, Marines |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
We really have two birthdates.
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=u+s+marine+corp+birthdate&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D97d2b8857c7b5d18%26clickedItemRank%3D4%26userQuery%3Du%2Bs%2Bmarine%2Bcorp%2Bbirthdate%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.angelfire.com%252Fca%252Fdickg%252Ftruebday.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPToolbarNS%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelfire.com%2Fca%2Fdickg%2Ftruebday.html
Or, do a search for u s marine corp birthdate. do not archive.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before and being a Marine.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
----- Original Message ----- >
> To all the Marines on the List: Happy 229th Birthday!
>
> Semper Fidelis,
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: <rv6@cableone.net>
RV-6 FOR SALE
Flying & ready for your paint scheme!
First flight 1/03
83TTAF/Sens. Prop/SMOH O-320 160hp
Slider - Electric trim/flaps - Dual controls - NICE !!!
Asking $68K, serious inq's only
Full details, pics, and contact info at website: myweb.cableone.net/racker (reply
off-list only
please)
Message 8
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| Subject: | Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
Hi All-
For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
sump.
FWIW
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 9
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
I'm all about everyone doing whatever they want in *their* plane, but
comparing a transport category jet and an RV is pretty much apples and
oranges, IMO.
I've never flown a large jet but I have flown a DC-9 sim, and even though it
had all kinds of motion and sound of APUs and engines from outside the
cockpit, I don't recall it giving any "seat of the pants" feel or audible
indication of flight conditions that I recall (aside from the urgent voice
saying things like "pull up, pull up! Whoop-whoop!" when we buzzed the
tower at 400 kts then pulled up into an aileron roll).
I can feel when my RV is getting close to the edge of the envelope. As a
matter of fact, with sound and feel I bet I can tell you an airspeed to +/-
10 mph blind. And the consequences of stalling an RV versus a jet are
orders of magnitude apart. I wouldn't want to have to deal with a stall
base to final in my RV at 200', but it would be almost certainly fatal for
many many people stalling a jet anywhere below 5-6000' agl.
My 2 cents - the AOA indicator will give better info. But it's my direct
experience that you'll soon quit using this and go with the feel you
develop. Now - having said that, an AOA indicator would be really nice for
getting into those short strips you don't visit but once a year (Cougar
Landing/Scott Field - Waco).
If I had to guess, the stall warning indicators on jets is probably more of
a critical angle of attack warning obtained from those AOA vanes on the side
of the fuselage. can anyone confirm this?
Good debates and discussions - it all provides for more learning.
Bryan Jones
do not archive>
> > If a stall warning device isnt needed for those who fly alot, why are
>they
> > required on jets that have enough thrust to climb at a 20 degree angle
>at
> > over 6000ft/min?
> >
> > There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
> > device (or any other safety system for that matter). Just because you
>have
> > excess thrust doesnt mean it cant happen to you on a tight final turn
>with
> > overshooting winds or a very heavy takeoff combined with a high density
>alt.
> > Oh yeah, that was all IMHO.
> >
>
>He's absolutely right; but, I still agree with Bob.
>
>Now, understand that Jeff is a jet jockey for UPS and, if I remember his RV
>correctly, he has no stall warning device on his RV, either. At least I
>don't remember one on it when he was building it. That was what I was
>saying. If you want it, fine; but, a regular flyer probably isn't going to
>need it. S/he will get a feel for the airplane.
>
>Based on some of the landings I've experienced while flying on airliners,
>some of those pilots probably do need stall warning devices. I know
>they've
>thoroughly tested the landing gears. Maybe the wing structures, too. :-)
>Sorry, Jeff. The Devil made me say it. :-)
>
>Jim in KY
>Do not archive!
>
Message 10
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<RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>, <AZ_RVList@yahoogroups.com>
| Subject: | RV7 Gear legs For Sale |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Darwin Barrie" <ktlkrn@cox.net>
New, never used RV 7 gear legs for sale. (tialdragger)
$295+ plus actual shipping.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
Much email discussion concerns back-up safety systems in an RV. My
opinion - an AOA system, with whatever flags / warnings you're
comfortable with - is an extremely worthwhile investment.
I'm a FNG in the RV world - started assembling my RV-8A emp kit last
week - but do have nearly 7K hrs. flying Navy tactical jets. I find the
AOA discussions interesting. To me, it's a preference / what you are
used to discussion. I always flew AOA - not just in the landing pattern,
but for max range / max endurance and edge of the envelope maneuvering -
including climb. Most of the time after the initial AOA / Airspeed
crosscheck, I couldn't tell you my landing airspeed. Over the years I
experienced several pitot-static problems and flew the entire mission
with only AOA.
We modified our squadron jets (VA-127 Adversary) to move the AOA gage
from the left knee to the top left of the instrument panel cluster,
right below the AOA indexers (which worked only with the gear down).
During heavy buffet maneuvering, a quick glance at the AOA gage
sometimes proved invaluable. And part of the gouge on A-4 spin recovery
was to check the AOA gage to determine what kind of spin you were in -
full positive for upright, full negative for inverted, and if the AOA
gage wasn't pegged, you weren't spinning but were in a high speed
departure. It made a huge difference in selection of recovery
procedures.
Navy AOA flying is certainly not entirely applicable to the RV
community, but would seem to have at least as much RV utility as some of
the pricey glass cockpit avionics options folks are installing.
Paul Valovich
"Booger"
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
got a link?
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
>
> Hi All-
>
> For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
> Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
> other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
> The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
> system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
> sump.
>
> FWIW
>
> Glen Matejcek
> aerobubba@earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
got a link?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <AEROBUBBA@EARTHLINK.NET>
Hi All-
For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
sump.
FWIW
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
com
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Sorry about that - looks like my email threw up a hairball!!
repost -
I'm all about everyone doing whatever they want in *their* plane, but
comparing a transport category jet and an RV is pretty much apples and
oranges, IMHO.
I've never flown a large jet but I have flown a DC-9 sim, and even though it
had all kinds of motion and sound of APUs and engines from outside the
cockpit, I don't recall it giving any "seat of the pants" feel or audible
indication of flight conditions that I recall (aside from the voice saying
things like "pull up, pull up! Whoop-whoop!" when we buzzed the tower at 400
kts then pulled up into an aileron roll).
I can feel when my RV is getting close to the edge of the envelope. As a
matter of fact, with sound and feel I bet I can tell you an airspeed to 10
mph blind. And the consequences of stalling an RV versus a jet are orders
of magnitude apart. I wouldn't want to have to deal with a stall base to
final in my RV at 200', but it would be almost certainly fatal for many many
people stalling a jet anywhere below 5-6000' agl.
My 2 cents - the AOA indicator will give better info. But it's my direct
experience that you'll soon quit using this and go with the feel you
develop. Now - having said that, an AOA indicator would be really nice for
getting into those short strips you don't visit but once a year (e.g.,
Cougar Landing/Scott Field - Waco). If I had to guess, the stall warning
indicators on jets is probably more of a critical angle of attack warning
obtained from those AOA vanes on the side of the fuselage. can anyone
confirm this?
Good debates and discussions - it all provides for more learning.
Bryan Jones
do not archive
>From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:07:25 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
>I'm all about everyone doing whatever they want in *their* plane, but
>comparing a transport category jet and an RV is pretty much apples and
>oranges, IMO.
>
>I've never flown a large jet but I have flown a DC-9 sim, and even though
>it
>had all kinds of motion and sound of APUs and engines from outside the
>cockpit, I don't recall it giving any "seat of the pants" feel or audible
>indication of flight conditions that I recall (aside from the urgent voice
>saying things like "pull up, pull up! Whoop-whoop!" when we buzzed the
>tower at 400 kts then pulled up into an aileron roll).
>
>I can feel when my RV is getting close to the edge of the envelope. As a
>matter of fact, with sound and feel I bet I can tell you an airspeed to +/-
>10 mph blind. And the consequences of stalling an RV versus a jet are
>orders of magnitude apart. I wouldn't want to have to deal with a stall
>base to final in my RV at 200', but it would be almost certainly fatal for
>many many people stalling a jet anywhere below 5-6000' agl.
>
>My 2 cents - the AOA indicator will give better info. But it's my direct
>experience that you'll soon quit using this and go with the feel you
>develop. Now - having said that, an AOA indicator would be really nice for
>getting into those short strips you don't visit but once a year (Cougar
>Landing/Scott Field - Waco).
>
>If I had to guess, the stall warning indicators on jets is probably more of
>a critical angle of attack warning obtained from those AOA vanes on the
>side
>of the fuselage. can anyone confirm this?
>
>Good debates and discussions - it all provides for more learning.
>
>Bryan Jones
>
>do not archive>
>
>
> > > If a stall warning device isnt needed for those who fly alot, why are
> >they
> > > required on jets that have enough thrust to climb at a 20 degree angle
> >at
> > > over 6000ft/min?
> > >
> > > There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall
>warning
> > > device (or any other safety system for that matter). Just because you
> >have
> > > excess thrust doesnt mean it cant happen to you on a tight final turn
> >with
> > > overshooting winds or a very heavy takeoff combined with a high
>density
> >alt.
> > > Oh yeah, that was all IMHO.
> > >
> >
> >He's absolutely right; but, I still agree with Bob.
> >
> >Now, understand that Jeff is a jet jockey for UPS and, if I remember his
>RV
> >correctly, he has no stall warning device on his RV, either. At least I
> >don't remember one on it when he was building it. That was what I was
> >saying. If you want it, fine; but, a regular flyer probably isn't going
>to
> >need it. S/he will get a feel for the airplane.
> >
> >Based on some of the landings I've experienced while flying on airliners,
> >some of those pilots probably do need stall warning devices. I know
> >they've
> >thoroughly tested the landing gears. Maybe the wing structures, too.
>:-)
> >Sorry, Jeff. The Devil made me say it. :-)
> >
> >Jim in KY
> >Do not archive!
> >
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Yes, you have added some obstacles. Good point! Thanks.
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
>And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>bend
>the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>possibly
>jam.
>
>http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
>wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
>arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
>corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
>there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
>if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
>arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
>slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
>Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
>provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
>be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
>Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
>90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
>--
>~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or
is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be
looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
Bruce
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
>And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>bend
>the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>possibly
>jam.
>
>http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
>wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
>arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
>corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
>there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
>if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
>arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
>slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
>Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
>provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
>be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
>Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
>90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
>--
>~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
Message 16
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--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the great AOA discusstion, Booger. Thank you also for your
service to our country!
do not archive
--
Scott the Navy brat
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
>
>Much email discussion concerns back-up safety systems in an RV. My
>opinion - an AOA system, with whatever flags / warnings you're
>comfortable with - is an extremely worthwhile investment.
>
>
>I'm a FNG in the RV world - started assembling my RV-8A emp kit last
>week - but do have nearly 7K hrs. flying Navy tactical jets. I find the
>AOA discussions interesting. To me, it's a preference / what you are
>used to discussion. I always flew AOA - not just in the landing pattern,
>but for max range / max endurance and edge of the envelope maneuvering -
>including climb. Most of the time after the initial AOA / Airspeed
>crosscheck, I couldn't tell you my landing airspeed. Over the years I
>experienced several pitot-static problems and flew the entire mission
>with only AOA.
>
>
>We modified our squadron jets (VA-127 Adversary) to move the AOA gage
>from the left knee to the top left of the instrument panel cluster,
>right below the AOA indexers (which worked only with the gear down).
>During heavy buffet maneuvering, a quick glance at the AOA gage
>sometimes proved invaluable. And part of the gouge on A-4 spin recovery
>was to check the AOA gage to determine what kind of spin you were in -
>full positive for upright, full negative for inverted, and if the AOA
>gage wasn't pegged, you weren't spinning but were in a high speed
>departure. It made a huge difference in selection of recovery
>procedures.
>
>
>Navy AOA flying is certainly not entirely applicable to the RV
>community, but would seem to have at least as much RV utility as some of
>the pricey glass cockpit avionics options folks are installing.
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>"Booger"
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can & do
use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps the
momentary "drop" in pressure from happening.
That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive
than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing, just
a copy.
Just an FYI..
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hodgson"
<bob@hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk>
Gary,
Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
before.
It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the
Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
separator to the breather fitting.
Second difference, it's cheaper!
Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit
(vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
wants this, get in touch.
Bob (UK)
RV3B "finishing" (?)
----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>
> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
> oil system?
>
> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, Bendix,
Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
...........................................................................
Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
Listers,
I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
system.
Stewart RV-4 Colorado
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a micro
switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted
the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod
engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the big
red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from the
hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states to
observe red light on to verify working.
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic
options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider
moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free
to call or email me.
Evan Johnson
(530)351-1776 cell
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
bend
> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
possibly
> jam.
>
> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
> Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
> --
> ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Bill Esther Engraving |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Is Bill Esther still doing engraving?
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Here's a link to E-mag and P-mag info. These things sound like a great
solution, especially emag.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>
> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
Bendix,
> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>
>
...........................................................................
> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>
> Listers,
> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
> system.
>
> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>
>
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest.
http://www.emagair.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
>
> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
Bendix,
> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>
>
...........................................................................
> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>
> Listers,
> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
> system.
>
> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
for fear of it opening further un flight.
Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
a few inches.
What are the groups experiences?
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Bill Esther Engraving |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Believe so. Here are some photos of his work:
http://www.rvproject.com/esther_engraving.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Subject: RV-List: Bill Esther Engraving
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
>
> Is Bill Esther still doing engraving?
>
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open.
It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took
off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he
couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind
would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible
combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch
it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4!
923te wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
>for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
>a few inches.
>What are the groups experiences?
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
Phase # accidents % Fatal
of Flight
T/O 451 33
Climb 61 52
Cruise 91 44
Maneuvering 294 69
Decent 76 72
Approach 201 39
Em. Ldg 64 28
Landing 269 6
Go around VFR 36 17
Go around IFR 3 100
UKN 276 34
This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one time
or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such a
terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading cause of
this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin accidents
were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have been
killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
This puts it all in perspective!
This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
www.riteangle.com
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re:Stall Horn;getting old |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
You are right Jim, I dont have a stall warning device, yet. I would really
like to have an aoa. Many moons ago, the USAF, after having multiple fatal
crashes in the final turn, installed aoa's on all there T-38's. Its an
awesone system that has saved many lives. The RV is much more forgiving,
but still can get you in trouble.
Im privelaged enough to get paid to fly and hope that this helps with my rv
currency. However, adding a safety system such as aoa, sure seems like a
great idea to me. I just have to get all the other crap I bought installed
first.
Oh yeah, and since you have no way of verifying this, (excluding putting
yourself in a box, not recommended), my landings are always perfect :)
do not archive
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: <sears@searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn
> --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>
>
>> If a stall warning device isnt needed for those who fly alot, why are
>> they
>> required on jets that have enough thrust to climb at a 20 degree angle at
>> over 6000ft/min?
>>
>> There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
>> device (or any other safety system for that matter). Just because you
> have
>> excess thrust doesnt mean it cant happen to you on a tight final turn
>> with
>> overshooting winds or a very heavy takeoff combined with a high density
> alt.
>> Oh yeah, that was all IMHO.
>>
>
> He's absolutely right; but, I still agree with Bob.
>
> Now, understand that Jeff is a jet jockey for UPS and, if I remember his
> RV
> correctly, he has no stall warning device on his RV, either. At least I
> don't remember one on it when he was building it. That was what I was
> saying. If you want it, fine; but, a regular flyer probably isn't going
> to
> need it. S/he will get a feel for the airplane.
>
> Based on some of the landings I've experienced while flying on airliners,
> some of those pilots probably do need stall warning devices. I know
> they've
> thoroughly tested the landing gears. Maybe the wing structures, too. :-)
> Sorry, Jeff. The Devil made me say it. :-)
>
> Jim in KY
> Do not archive!
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re:Stall Horn, getting less relevant all the time |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Im using a generic term "stall warning device" to include aoa. Obviously
aoa is better, but a horn would be nice if thats all you could afford.
Yes, the approach to stall warnings on the big boys comes off of the aoa
sensors and shakes the %$
& out of the yoke. Its impossible to miss. Now
if we only had that on our rv's....
The only reason I mentioned large jets is to prove a point. These planes
have much more excess thrust and require lots of experience (normally)
before they'll let you fly em. However, the engineers still felt it prudent
to put a stall warning device in. It happens still. And recovery is still
the same with the same or less loss of altitude. Lots of thrust.
Anyway, practice your stalls and fly safe. hows that
do not archive
shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn
> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm all about everyone doing whatever they want in *their* plane, but
> comparing a transport category jet and an RV is pretty much apples and
> oranges, IMO.
>
> I've never flown a large jet but I have flown a DC-9 sim, and even though
> it
> had all kinds of motion and sound of APUs and engines from outside the
> cockpit, I don't recall it giving any "seat of the pants" feel or audible
> indication of flight conditions that I recall (aside from the urgent voice
> saying things like "pull up, pull up! Whoop-whoop!" when we buzzed the
> tower at 400 kts then pulled up into an aileron roll).
>
> I can feel when my RV is getting close to the edge of the envelope. As a
> matter of fact, with sound and feel I bet I can tell you an airspeed to
> +/-
> 10 mph blind. And the consequences of stalling an RV versus a jet are
> orders of magnitude apart. I wouldn't want to have to deal with a stall
> base to final in my RV at 200', but it would be almost certainly fatal for
> many many people stalling a jet anywhere below 5-6000' agl.
>
> My 2 cents - the AOA indicator will give better info. But it's my direct
> experience that you'll soon quit using this and go with the feel you
> develop. Now - having said that, an AOA indicator would be really nice
> for
> getting into those short strips you don't visit but once a year (Cougar
> Landing/Scott Field - Waco).
>
> If I had to guess, the stall warning indicators on jets is probably more
> of
> a critical angle of attack warning obtained from those AOA vanes on the
> side
> of the fuselage. can anyone confirm this?
>
> Good debates and discussions - it all provides for more learning.
>
> Bryan Jones
>
> do not archive>
>
>
>> > If a stall warning device isnt needed for those who fly alot, why are
>>they
>> > required on jets that have enough thrust to climb at a 20 degree angle
>>at
>> > over 6000ft/min?
>> >
>> > There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
>> > device (or any other safety system for that matter). Just because you
>>have
>> > excess thrust doesnt mean it cant happen to you on a tight final turn
>>with
>> > overshooting winds or a very heavy takeoff combined with a high density
>>alt.
>> > Oh yeah, that was all IMHO.
>> >
>>
>>He's absolutely right; but, I still agree with Bob.
>>
>>Now, understand that Jeff is a jet jockey for UPS and, if I remember his
>>RV
>>correctly, he has no stall warning device on his RV, either. At least I
>>don't remember one on it when he was building it. That was what I was
>>saying. If you want it, fine; but, a regular flyer probably isn't going
>>to
>>need it. S/he will get a feel for the airplane.
>>
>>Based on some of the landings I've experienced while flying on airliners,
>>some of those pilots probably do need stall warning devices. I know
>>they've
>>thoroughly tested the landing gears. Maybe the wing structures, too. :-)
>>Sorry, Jeff. The Devil made me say it. :-)
>>
>>Jim in KY
>>Do not archive!
>>
>
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Hi tech solution. I keep a bright yellow cloth pin on my throttle anytime
the canopy is open. Once Im ready to go, I remove it from the throttle
cable and place it on the canopy handle. Its worked for me so far. I would
have forgetten it a couple times in the beginning. I have a slider by the
way.
Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
140 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
>
> A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open.
> It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took
> off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he
> couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind
> would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible
> combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch
> it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4!
>
> 923te wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>>
>>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
>>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
>>for fear of it opening further un flight.
>>
>>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
>>I
>>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
>>open
>>a few inches.
>>What are the groups experiences?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> Van Arts Consulting Services
> 3848 McHenry Ave
> Suite #155-184
> Modesto, CA 95356
> 209-986-4647
> Ps 34:4,6
>
>
>
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Dan,
I think it IS rocket science. Your presentation is the way it should have
been done in the first place. Congrats and thanks for the time and effort,
you've done a real service to fellow pilots.
Jerry Cochran
This isn't rocket science by any stretch, but it is brand new functionality
on my decoded weather stuff...
http://www.rvproject.com/wx/
Now you can enter origin and destination airports and a course width, and
you can get decoded weather along that course (great circle). This should
simplify x-country flight planning imho...at-a-glance color coded weather
along your route.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Re:Stall Horn |
--> RV-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com" <czechsix@juno.com>
>
>> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying -
>> then
>> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
Now, now...
I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I agree wholeheartedly
that a stall warning device shouldn't replace good piloting skills
and thorough knowledge of how an airplane handles and feels leading up to (and
through) the stall. When I'm flying any airplane, I don't depend on the stall
warning system to make up for carelessness on my part....my goal is to never
allow myself to get into a situation where the stall warning would need to
alert me of an impending stall that I'm not already well aware of. But...statistics
say that some people get bit by stall/spin accidents year after year.
Some of them were probably careless, ignorant or unfamiliar with the airplane,
but not all of them...a number have been highly experienced pilots flying an
airplane in which they had thousands of hours logged. How many of those statistics
happened in airplanes with stall warning devices vs. those without, I don't
know (i.e. I don't know how much of a safety ben
efit a stall warning system is statistically). Stall warning doesn't guarantee
my safety, but I don't think it means I'm paranoid or inept if I decide to put
it in my airplane. I just think it's nice to have, just in case.
There are other things on my airplane that are nice to have, but not necessary,
like autopilot, attitude indicator (I'm VFR only), a fuel flow meter, a nosewheel,
an electronic engine monitor with alarm, a GPS, etc. None of these devices
should replace good piloting skills, judgement, or careful attention to flying/navigating
the airplane. But all of them have been deemed useful and practical
by ME for making MY flying experience safer and more convenient. I'm sure
some will disagree, which is fine...but this is my airplane, my money and my
butt in the seat, so I get to decide what goes in it and for what reasons :
) Some will assume that my decisions are based on lack of confidence in my flying
abilities, and I don't expect anything I've said here will change their perception
of me, or their perception of themselves that their superior abilities
will never ever allow them get bit...to each their own.
In the case of my stall warning system, I bought a microswitch and small piezo
alarm and rolled my own. I have all of about $5 invested in it right now. I'm
not convinced that spending upwards of $1K for a full-blown AOA system is worth
it for MY goals (although I think AOA would be nice to have!). My original
post was just asking about alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo
alarm sounds, well, a bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to
get my attention but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice
of several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring....
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Raven Hunter Studios" <info@ravenhunter.ca>
we are rteceiving your e-mails you must have a virus
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest.
> http://www.emagair.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
>>
>>
>> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
> Bendix,
>> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
>> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>>
>>
>> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>>
>>
> ...........................................................................
>> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>>
>> Listers,
>> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
>> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
>> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
>> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
>> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
>> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
>> system.
>>
>> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Dan,
I gotta agree with Jerry. That's really impressive. The second time I went
back for a look, it remembered my home airfield. You know that, but
everyone should have a look. He even color coded the weather.
Thanks a bunch. I have decided you are one of those overachievers.
Terry
RV-8A wiring
Seattle
Do not archive
-> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Dan,
I think it IS rocket science. Your presentation is the way it should have
been done in the first place. Congrats and thanks for the time and effort,
you've done a real service to fellow pilots.
Jerry Cochran
This isn't rocket science by any stretch, but it is brand new functionality
on my decoded weather stuff...
http://www.rvproject.com/wx/
Now you can enter origin and destination airports and a course width, and
you can get decoded weather along that course (great circle). This should
simplify x-country flight planning imho...at-a-glance color coded weather
along your route.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Bill Esther Engraving |
--> RV-List message posted by: <groves@epix.net>
Yes he is I just got my fuel tank caps done as well as one of his fuel cap tools,
He does a great job.
Kirk RV-8 wings
>
> From: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
> Date: 2004/11/10 Wed AM 11:46:34 EST
> To: "rv-list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Bill Esther Engraving
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
>
> Is Bill Esther still doing engraving?
>
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 36
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|
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re:Stall Horn |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Prather" <mprather@spro.net>
Makes perfect sense to me.. In addition to finding a different warning
horn, you might be able to make one you have sound like you want. How
does it sound if you wrap it in a layer of duct tape? Or, how about putting
a 100ohm resistor in series with it?
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix@juno.com"
> <czechsix@juno.com>
>
>
>>
>>> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying -
>>> then
>>> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>
> Now, now...
>
> I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I
snip
> would be nice to have!). My original post was just asking about
> alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo alarm sounds, well, a
> bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to get my attention
> but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice of
> several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard...
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D wiring....
>
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
Message 37
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|
| Subject: | 24 Years of the RV-ator are here |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland@rkymtnhi.com>
24 Years of the RVator books are here. (finally)
See the description at:
http://buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm
We just unloaded 159 cases of the new RV-ator book and they are ready to go
out the door. All customer backorders will go out today. All advertiser's
and other owed complementary copies will go out tomorrow. Thank you
everyone for your patience.
Thanks,
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
Message 38
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|
| Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Raven Hunter Studios" <info@ravenhunter.ca>
olease note we are receiving your e-mails you might want to check your
system for a virus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Philip Condon" <pcondon@mitre.org>
>
> I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a
> micro
> switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted
> the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod
> engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the
> big
> red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from
> the
> hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states
> to
> observe red light on to verify working.
>
>
>
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Bruce,
I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was not
happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that had
similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on a
design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final solution).
One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire
would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold it.
So I opted to safety the arm to the float.
I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to
prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over
time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the space
allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel gauge
would start working.
Regards,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
>
> Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or
> is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
> wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
> hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be
> looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
> Bruce
>
>> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> To: rv-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>>
>>
>> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>> bend
>> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>> possibly
>> jam.
>>
>> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>>
>> Regards,
>> /\/elson
>> RV-7A
>> Austin, TX
>>
Message 40
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
This is a nice report; but, I'd be interested in what percentage of those
accidents were with commercially built aircraft that had stall warning
devices. If we don't pay attention to those that are already installed, why
bother putting them in, in the first place? As others have reported, one
gets the feel for an RV, very quickly. Once that feel is learned, stall
prevention aides seem to be ignored. Goodness knows the ones in this report
sure forgot about their warning devices. If you want one in your airplane,
by all means install it. Warm fuzzies are still allowed. :-)
BTW, someone mentioned that Jerry Vangrunsven has a AOA. How about Van's
fleet? Do they have stall warning devices, as well? I don't remember
seeing anything about stall warning devices in his wiring diagrams. If he
pushes them, one would think one would be shown in the diagrams.
Jim Sears in KY
do not archive
----- Original Message ----- From: <EMAproducts@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
> --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
>
> To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
> These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
> Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
> Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
> Phase # accidents % Fatal
> of Flight
> T/O 451 33
> Climb 61 52
> Cruise 91 44
> Maneuvering 294 69
> Decent 76 72
> Approach 201 39
> Em. Ldg 64 28
> Landing 269 6
> Go around VFR 36 17
> Go around IFR 3 100
> UKN 276 34
>
> This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
> includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
> Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
time
> or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such
a
> terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
cause of
> this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
>
> You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
accidents
> were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
been
> killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
>
> This puts it all in perspective!
>
> This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
>
> Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
Message 41
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Evan,
The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel from
sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame on
me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and peace
of mind).
At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance
(3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by the
time I got everything bent.
I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do you
have concerns with my design?
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
>
> David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic
> options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
> unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
> each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider
> moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free
> to call or email me.
>
> Evan Johnson
> (530)351-1776 cell
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
I noticed this also when I would rotate the fuel tank to quickly that the
arm or float, do not know which one because it is all closed up hits the
upper part of the skin. This does not a cure when rotated slowly or standard
rate of rotation.l But I began to think that this is just the gravity weight
of the float and arm itself in there. When you have fuel in there you will
not have this problem due to the fuel tension and + G force in most of your
normal flight maneuvers. I will not have any inverted systems on the 8 as
you know with the standard senders and pick-ups.
Thanks for the conversation.
Bruce Gray RV8 #81745
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:13:30 -0600 (CST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
>Hi Bruce,
>
>I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was
>not
>happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that
>had
>similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on
>a
>design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final
>solution).
>One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire
>would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold
>it.
>So I opted to safety the arm to the float.
>
>I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to
>prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over
>time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the
>space
>allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel
>gauge
>would start working.
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
>
>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
> >
> > Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender
>or
> > is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
> > wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
> > hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably
>be
> > looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
> > Bruce
> >
> >> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
> >> Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
> >>
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson"
><david.nelson@pobox.com>
> >>
> >>
> >> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had
>to
> >> bend
> >> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
> >> possibly
> >> jam.
> >>
> >> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> /\/elson
> >> RV-7A
> >> Austin, TX
> >>
>
>
Message 43
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0.26 UPPERCASE_25_50 message body is 25-50% uppercase
--> RV-List message posted by: <dwhite17@columbus.rr.com>
Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you
penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable?
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
on opie.wvnet.edu
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
>a few inches.
>What are the groups experiences?
YES
First time I flew out of Cincinnati class B airport, I forget its real
name. But after taking off and exiting the Class B airspace, I noticed it
was a little louder and a lot breezer. Located the problem, canopy was open
about 2 inches. I have the slider canopy.
Now I was not about to turn around and negotiate a landing back at the
class B airfield, flew to the next airstrip on my route, about 10 minutes,
landed and latched canopy. Tried to latch canopy in flight, no way. If I
was strong enough, I would have probably bent or broken the canopy handle.
Recommendation it this happens to you:
1. Fly the aircraft
2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely.
3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the
suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward
(for the slider) latch locked.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>>
>What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
>Bendix,
>Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
>Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
>Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
Read all about it:
http://www.emagair.com
They're going on my RV10 engine someday if they prove to be reliable in the
coming years.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch.
Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle
either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud noise. I
continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could pull it
down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down far
enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point but
don't recall for certain.
I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient to
get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been
informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full
flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull down
and lock.
Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and wind
and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable with
the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in that
configuration {:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
> --> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
on opie.wvnet.edu
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob <panamared3@brier.net>
>To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
>These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
>Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
>Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
>Phase # accidents % Fatal
>of Flight
>T/O 451 33
>Climb 61 52
>Cruise 91 44
>Maneuvering 294 69
>Decent 76 72
>Approach 201 39
>Em. Ldg 64 28
>Landing 269 6
>Go around VFR 36 17
>Go around IFR 3 100
>UKN 276 34
>
>This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
>includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
Of all these accidents, how many of these planes had a stall warning device
or AOA. Is the stall warning device required for production aircraft. Is
it possible to get into a stall spin accident and actually have a stall
warning device or AOA indicator.
In a high speed stall, if I am correct, the amount of time between the
stall warning and the stall is insufficient to avoid the stall. At least
that is what happens in a snap roll, (I think, correct me if I am wrong).
I have observed human nature too long to believe that any safety device
will be 100% effective. I know there are people out there that will
somehow figure out how to kill themselves in a stall spin accident
regardless of any safety device installed in their aircraft.
To answer your question do I know of anyone who plans on having an accident?
Answer: YES, especially when they say:
1. It will never happen to me.
2. I can always recover from a stall before it goes into a spin.
3. What do you mean I stalled the aircraft, just because the stall warning
went off did not mean we were about to stall!
4. I don't need spin training because I will never be in a stall.
5. If I have a stall warning device I will never enter into a stall spin
accident.
Please don't take this as a flame, but I earn a living in high risk sports,
and the safety nuts are always telling me if only............(fill in the
blank) no one would ever get hurt/killed etc. My response is if no one
ever flew an airplane, no one would ever die in an airplane crash. How
many people died in stall spin crashes in the year 1640! My point exactly!!!
Don't get me wrong, I believe in safety, I fly akro with a parachute, even
though it is not required. But, If one parachute is good, then two must be
better and three will be better still and don't forget about one for the
airplane. Where does the quest for ultimate absolute safety stop and
common sense and training prevail?
The best safety device and safety investment is a regularly schedule
flight with a good CFI. It is my opinion that good training can overcome
a lack of some safety devices and get you out of some real trouble if you
ever get into it.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
Message 48
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--> RV-List message posted by: richard dudley <rhdudley@att.net>
Hi D White,
I used the diagram for firewall penetrations that was puhlished in the
first issue 2001 of the RVator on page 18 . The cable was the one from
the Van's catalog for the RV-6(all): CT BLUE VPROP 45.5 which is 45.5".
I could send you a copy of the diagram if you don't have that issue.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A ready to move to the airport
dwhite17@columbus.rr.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <dwhite17@columbus.rr.com>
>
>Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you
penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable?
>
>
>
>
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Bill Esther Found! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell@door.net>
Bill Esther is home recovering from knee surgery. He only checks his email
on Fridays but does answer his phone.
Regards to all!
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
DO NOT ARCHIVE!
Message 50
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|
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com>
Has anyone got any comments on the Dynon AOA, does it work ok?
> --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>
> This is a nice report; but, I'd be interested in what percentage of those
> accidents were with commercially built aircraft that had stall warning
> devices. If we don't pay attention to those that are already installed,
why
> bother putting them in, in the first place? As others have reported, one
> gets the feel for an RV, very quickly. Once that feel is learned, stall
> prevention aides seem to be ignored. Goodness knows the ones in this
report
> sure forgot about their warning devices. If you want one in your
airplane,
> by all means install it. Warm fuzzies are still allowed. :-)
>
> BTW, someone mentioned that Jerry Vangrunsven has a AOA. How about Van's
> fleet? Do they have stall warning devices, as well? I don't remember
> seeing anything about stall warning devices in his wiring diagrams. If he
> pushes them, one would think one would be shown in the diagrams.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <EMAproducts@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
> >
> > To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
> > These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
> > Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
> > Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
> > Phase # accidents % Fatal
> > of Flight
> > T/O 451 33
> > Climb 61 52
> > Cruise 91 44
> > Maneuvering 294 69
> > Decent 76 72
> > Approach 201 39
> > Em. Ldg 64 28
> > Landing 269 6
> > Go around VFR 36 17
> > Go around IFR 3 100
> > UKN 276 34
> >
> > This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
> > includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
> > Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
> time
> > or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports,
such
> a
> > terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
> cause of
> > this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
> >
> > You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
> accidents
> > were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
> been
> > killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
> >
> > This puts it all in perspective!
> >
> > This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
> >
> > Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
> > www.riteangle.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
Brad is working on the 6 cylinder models
for the 0-540 guys.
No big black box to mount, all self
contained.
Stewart RV-4
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
E-MAG Splash
Message 53
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As
long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be
fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop
tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up.
Evan
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson@pobox.com>
>
>
> Hi Evan,
>
> The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel
from
> sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame
on
> me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and
peace
> of mind).
>
> At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance
> (3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by
the
> time I got everything bent.
>
> I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do
you
> have concerns with my design?
>
> Thanks,
> /\/elson
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
<evmeg@snowcrest.net>
> >
> > David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the
aerobatic
> > options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
> > unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
> > each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should
consider
> > moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel
free
> > to call or email me.
> >
> > Evan Johnson
> > (530)351-1776 cell
> > www.evansaviationproducts.com
> >
>
>
Message 54
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi D,
5 3/8" down from the top horizontal firewall rivet line and 8 3/4" from
pilot's side of the fuselage using the 45 1/2 " cable suggested in the Van's
2000 catalog.
I spaced my engine prop controls a bit further apart than what seems to be
average. (personal preference) This put the prop control a bit further to
the right side of the control panel.
I wanted enough length of cable from the governor bracket to the firewall to
relieve stress during engine start and shut down. In my opinion I just made
it with little to spare.
With the 45 1/2" cable and using more average or normal spacing on the panel
would have been only a little bit better.
Going with the spec on the offered diagram should work.
Happy building
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <dwhite17@columbus.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Prop cable
> --> RV-List message posted by: <dwhite17@columbus.rr.com>
>
> Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me
> where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control
> cable?
>
>
>
Message 55
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|
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
--> RV-List message posted by: David Nelson <david.nelson@pobox.com>
Hi Evan,
Thanks for the feedback. I understand about the flop tube and the sender
having to move.
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
>
> Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As
> long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be
> fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop
> tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up.
>
> Evan
Message 56
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|
| Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Uh What!
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVer273sb@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>
> E-MAG Splash
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 57
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
Thanks,
John Furey
O-320 RV6A
Message 58
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clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
>device (or any other safety system for that matter)...
>
A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a
nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he
would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and
you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>)
Dave -6
>
>
>
>
Message 59
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|
| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Howard Walrath" <der_Jagdflieger@prodigy.net>
One only needs to look at the stall/spin accident statistics,
particularly in overshooting the turn to final, to conclude
that ANY aid to prevent that happening is worth while.
Far too many pilots are being indoctrinated and licensed
without adequate stall avoidance training, let alone real
stall/spin recovery training. Call it an AOA or even one
of the less-expensive, "pseudo-AOA's" (that would never
pass military muster) -- awareness of that unforgiving
threshold is as valuable as any instrument in the panel.
My ifr RV-6A has a Lift Reserve Indicator installed as the
top instrument at the extreme left of the panel just below
the glare shield, and more time is spent with it in my scan
than the air speed indicator. I consider it so important that if
it failed to display adequate lift capability during the take-off
run, I'd abort the flight. It has the added benefit of being the
one speed/lift indicator (in my bird) that would survive an
unexpected and unavoidable encounter with ice.
Finally Jim, with all of the equipment options available to a
builder, no supplier of plans or kits can possibly include all
of the wiring harnesses for all possible configurations. I feel
gratified if the lightening holes in the ribs are in alignment!!!
Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com>
>
> Has anyone got any comments on the Dynon AOA, does it work ok?
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>>
>> This is a nice report; but, I'd be interested in what percentage of those
>> accidents were with commercially built aircraft that had stall warning
>> devices. If we don't pay attention to those that are already installed,
> why
>> bother putting them in, in the first place? As others have reported, one
>> gets the feel for an RV, very quickly. Once that feel is learned, stall
>> prevention aides seem to be ignored. Goodness knows the ones in this
> report
>> sure forgot about their warning devices. If you want one in your
> airplane,
>> by all means install it. Warm fuzzies are still allowed. :-)
>>
>> BTW, someone mentioned that Jerry Vangrunsven has a AOA. How about Van's
>> fleet? Do they have stall warning devices, as well? I don't remember
>> seeing anything about stall warning devices in his wiring diagrams. If
>> he
>> pushes them, one would think one would be shown in the diagrams.
>>
>> Jim Sears in KY
>> do not archive
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <EMAproducts@aol.com>
>> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
>> >
>> > To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
>> > These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
>> > Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
>> > Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
>> > Phase # accidents % Fatal
>> > of Flight
>> > T/O 451 33
>> > Climb 61 52
>> > Cruise 91 44
>> > Maneuvering 294 69
>> > Decent 76 72
>> > Approach 201 39
>> > Em. Ldg 64 28
>> > Landing 269 6
>> > Go around VFR 36 17
>> > Go around IFR 3 100
>> > UKN 276 34
>> >
>> > This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
>> > includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
>> > Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
>> time
>> > or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports,
> such
>> a
>> > terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
>> cause of
>> > this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
>> >
>> > You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
>> accidents
>> > were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
>> been
>> > killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
>> >
>> > This puts it all in perspective!
>> >
>> > This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
>> >
>> > Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
>> > www.riteangle.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 60
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| Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Actually it is hard to tell some of the clones apart.
Keep in mind that Frank Christen is not the inventor of this inverted
oil system.
He copied it and so did Nathan Davis at Acra-Line, Doug Dodge, and at
least a half dozen others. I personally made my first sytem in the late
70's and a friend of mine made a few sets back in the early seventies.
It was invented by one or two IAC'ers and it just spread from plane to
plane like wild fire. I don't recall who actually came up with the
system first, it is in some old "Sport Aerobatics" though. They were
playing with a lot of different kinds and this is the system that
evolved. The present day systems are all basically the same .The one
Nathan Davis built is what I last used and I thought it was the neatest
because he designed it a little more compact. His ball valve is a
little smaller and the "slobber" pot was made with two flattened sides
instead of completely round. It fits in better and does exactly the same
job..Hiis was also 1/3 the price of Frank's. Unfortunately, he quit
building them back in the late 80's. and concentrated his very high tech
machine shop on high tech aerospace work.
Phil in Illinois RV 6 will fly some day. It has been weighed at
1016 empty with no paint and no interior..
do not archive
>
>
>>From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>>Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
>>oil system?
>>
>>http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>>
>>Gary A. Sobek
>>"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>>1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>>http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>>
>>
Message 61
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--> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
I could sure use the diagram as well.
Thanks,
Ned Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop cable
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
> If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
>
> Thanks,
> John Furey
> O-320 RV6A
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | RV-9A QB rivet access. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Hello,
I am trying to get access to the rivets under the F-721-B for the F-705 on
my -9A QB. Is it a case of making some creative bucking bars, or have
people cut off the slotted flange of the F-721B to get access. Other ideas
appreciated........
Thanks,
Pete
Message 63
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| Subject: | RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon |
--> RV-List message posted by: Keith T Uhls <keithuhls@juno.com>
Q:IIncidentallywhat do you use to drive the VOR and glideslope?
A: I purchased my GRT EFIS before they where selling them off the shelf.
So some things were not available at that time. For me I wanted to be
able to fly GPS approaches and in order to do that I had to have an OBS.
So I purchased the one from Garmin. I do not know if the one on the
EFIS would be legal and did not want to go through that battle in case I
lost. I do not have the interface yet but it is wired so I can drive the
OBS with the EFIS.
Q: Where did you get the switches for your panel?
A: A good question... I had a couple of guys here in Lockhart get their
switches from Gulf Coast Avionics. They paid $40 plus $10 for engraving.
I have 13 of these suckers.....and that is a lot of money. I looked for
Honeywell AML switches from Allied electronics and Newarkinone. I
purchased them from Newarkinone because they were the cheapest. However
I found out that they were low amperage (3amps). There are higher
amperages available from GCA (10 amps) At least that is what I was told
when I called them. One of my switches went bad and that made me
research the amperage. I ended up purchasing a few from them for my high
amperage items. Landing lights, strobes etc. We are putting them in
this week and I will let you know how that goes.
I had mine engraved by a guy in Las Vegas, Andy's Engraving and he
charged me $7.00 each. He did them in a matter of days and I was really
happy with them.
Q:I am not trying to nitpick anything but when flying the American
Flag on the tail of an aircraft the stars are into the wind.
A: Thanks for letting me know, especially before I got paint on it. I
will change it.
Jeff Bordelon took these pics and posted them to his web site. Here is
the link http://www.jeffsrv7a.com/KeithsRV7.htm
As you can see I have both the Grand Rapids and Dynon EFIS systems. I
really like both of them, they both have there place in the panel and
they keep getting better with each software update. If you have any
questions about either one let me know.
Keith Uhls
keithuhls@juno.com
RV-7 N7KU
now flying
Message 64
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| Subject: | Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bruno <rv4@videotron.ca>
Hello Listers
I have a Lycoming 0-320 E2D in my RV-4 and ever since
I got the a/c , the oil temperature has been hovering between 110 (Cold day
25 F)and 150
(very hot day 80 F.)
My first reaction was to check the oil temp gauge
which I found defective and I since replaced it with one from Van's. I
thought my problem will be over but not to avail.Next was to installed a
back plate to the back of the oil cooler.It did improve the oil temp a bit
but not by much.
I'm wondering what I can do next short of plugging the
air intake.
I have a Positech (7 rows) oil cooler on the a/c.
So what have you guys (specially the ones flying in cold climat) done to get
the proper oil temp?
Are there any oil cooler better than others??
What is your normal oil temperature range?
What are the potential problems I can expect? ( I know of a few but it will
be nice to know them all if possible.)
Thank you
Bruno Dionne
C-GDBH RV-4
rv4@videotron.ca
P.S # You may reply OFF list if you wish.
Message 65
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| Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott@telus.net>
BAck in the mid-seventies, I went with a Christen clone by a company called
Akra-Line ( IIRC) at a fraction of the cost, when I was building up a Pitts
Special.
Only flew with it a few times, as it had a habit of dropping the oil
pressure to almost zero once the oil temperature got up to operating
temperature.
Swapping parts narrowed it down to the three-way valve, which must have had
too great a difference in expansion rates between the steel balls and the
valve body.
Ended up just coughing up the extra for the Christen.
Scott in VAncouver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
>
> No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can &
> do
> use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps
> the
> momentary "drop" in pressure from happening.
>
> That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive
> than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing,
> just
> a copy.
>
> Just an FYI..
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Hodgson"
> <bob@hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Gary,
> Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
> before.
> It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
> the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on
> the
> Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
> separator to the breather fitting.
> Second difference, it's cheaper!
> Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
>
> It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
> available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump
> kit
> (vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
> wants this, get in touch.
>
> Bob (UK)
> RV3B "finishing" (?)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer@hotmail.com>
>>
>> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen
>> inverted
>> oil system?
>>
>> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>>
>> Gary A. Sobek
>> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
>
Message 66
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| Subject: | Canopy Open In FLight |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop@pacbell.net>
On a tip up, that aft handle that you use to pull the canopy down and
twist to engage the tab under the roll over structure will not prevent
the canopy from coming open if the main latch on the left side is not
engaged. It'll just bend itself as it scratches the roll over structure
on it's way past. I don't know how high it would have opened if I hadn't
grabbed it on the way up. I was fortunate to have another pilot with me
and, as I held the canopy, he slowed the airplane. I was unable to close
it until we had slowed to about 80 mph. This happened in cruise at about
7500 ft and maybe 20 minutes after takeoff. After getting it latched, I
observed the latch working itself free again about a half hour later.
That's when I resolved to put a longer spring on it B4 further flight.
It latches very positively now and has given no further trouble.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson@carolina.rr.com>
I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch.
Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle
either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud
noise. I
continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could
pull it
down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down
far
enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point
but
don't recall for certain.
I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient
to
get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been
informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full
flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull
down
and lock.
Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and
wind
and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable
with
the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in
that
configuration {:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson@carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
> --> RV-List message posted by: "923te" <923te@cox.net>
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as
I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway
end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is
only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "davercook" <davercook@prodigy.net>
Great Program !!
Isn't it surprising that someone in the government didn't come up with
something so useful, with all their (Our ) money.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
<RV7and7A@yahoogroups.com>; <SoCAL-RVlist@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RV-List: ROUTE based decoded METARs and TAFs
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
> This isn't rocket science by any stretch, but it is brand new
functionality
> on my decoded weather stuff...
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/wx/
>
> Now you can enter origin and destination airports and a course width, and
> you can get decoded weather along that course (great circle). This should
> simplify x-country flight planning imho...at-a-glance color coded weather
> along your route.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Canopy Unlock Incidents |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
The recent thread on canopy unlock incidents is the best contribution to the
list in some time.
In 600 hour's operation of a tip over RV4 canopy, I had one incident where
rear rod did not engage it's locking hole. The canopy remained closed via
the front rod. My wife, in the back seat, said "it's windier than normal"
that's when I turned around and saw the problem. When I told her we'd be
going back to the airport to relock the canopy she said "that's OK I don't
mind the wind".
Of course the incident had to be at a Saturday morning launch from
Hillsboro, OR to Packwood for breakfast during a Van's homecoming several
years ago. There were probably 20+ RVs within 10 miles of the airport when
I had to make the returning call to the tower. Naturally, Jerry V. was the
one who picked up on the call.
I now visually check for engagement of both fore and aft rods. Based on the
other posts I will probably add a micro-switch controlled warning light on
the lock mechanisum.
Dick Sipp
Team RV wingman
RV4, RV10 underconstruction
Message 69
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| Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
I hate to admit it but in the early days of flying my -6, I managed to
leave the slider unlatched 3 times! The first time I noticed it at about
7000 feet (because of the cold draft on the back of my neck). Since I
had so much altitude, I felt it was safer to try to close it than to
wait until I landed. In cruise you can forget it, it won't move, but if
you slow down and put the flaps down it closes pretty easily by
squeezing the lower front corner and the roll bar together on both
sides.. Of course, you have to let go of the stick to do it, so it's a
good idea to get the airplane trimmed for that speed.
The second time I noticed it on takeoff and just landed to close it. The
third time it happened it was a non-issue since I knew exactly what to do!
Now, before taking the runway, I automatically reach up and check the
handle. Now if I can just find a way to remember to turn on the fuel pump!
Dave -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor
>Recommendation it this happens to you:
>
>1. Fly the aircraft
>2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely.
>3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the
>suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward
>(for the slider) latch locked.
>
>Bob
>RV6 NightFighter
>
>
>
>
Message 70
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
The RV 10 plans include detailed instructions for the installation of a
conventional stall warning horn.
I plan on a glare shield mounted AOA indicator.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: <sears@searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
> --> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
>
> This is a nice report; but, I'd be interested in what percentage of those
> accidents were with commercially built aircraft that had stall warning
> devices. If we don't pay attention to those that are already installed,
> why
> bother putting them in, in the first place? As others have reported, one
> gets the feel for an RV, very quickly. Once that feel is learned, stall
> prevention aides seem to be ignored. Goodness knows the ones in this
> report
> sure forgot about their warning devices. If you want one in your
> airplane,
> by all means install it. Warm fuzzies are still allowed. :-)
>
> BTW, someone mentioned that Jerry Vangrunsven has a AOA. How about Van's
> fleet? Do they have stall warning devices, as well? I don't remember
> seeing anything about stall warning devices in his wiring diagrams. If he
> pushes them, one would think one would be shown in the diagrams.
>
> Jim Sears in KY
> do not archive
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <EMAproducts@aol.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
>>
>> To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
>> These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
>> Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
>> Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
>> Phase # accidents % Fatal
>> of Flight
>> T/O 451 33
>> Climb 61 52
>> Cruise 91 44
>> Maneuvering 294 69
>> Decent 76 72
>> Approach 201 39
>> Em. Ldg 64 28
>> Landing 269 6
>> Go around VFR 36 17
>> Go around IFR 3 100
>> UKN 276 34
>>
>> This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
>> includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
>> Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
> time
>> or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such
> a
>> terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
> cause of
>> this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
>>
>> You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
> accidents
>> were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
> been
>> killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
>>
>> This puts it all in perspective!
>>
>> This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
>>
>> Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
>> www.riteangle.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Elbie,
That is well enough said for this guy
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <EMAproducts@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
> --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
>
> To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
> These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
> Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
> Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
> Phase # accidents % Fatal
> of Flight
> T/O 451 33
> Climb 61 52
> Cruise 91 44
> Maneuvering 294 69
> Decent 76 72
> Approach 201 39
> Em. Ldg 64 28
> Landing 269 6
> Go around VFR 36 17
> Go around IFR 3 100
> UKN 276 34
>
> This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
> includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
> Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
> time
> or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such
> a
> terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
> cause of
> this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
>
> You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
> accidents
> were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
> been
> killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
>
> This puts it all in perspective!
>
> This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
>
> Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
>
Message 72
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--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have limited
flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of my own experience.
However, from what flying I have done and from having known people who
flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin accidents, I really
think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should
be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I see it has to do with
the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with which the RVs will do steeply
banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. To me this
seems like it could have the effect of making the pilot complacent and possibly
get him into trouble. I have heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and
banking HARD when LOW in the pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing.
Remember your basic pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster
the stall speed becomes until it goes to infinity". This also applies to airplanes
with "adequate" power like the RV! Just because we have so much power
doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. We can NOT just crank it over
and hold it there without consequences! An AOA indicator in the cockpit would
certianly help show us how close to the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those
busy times in the pattern where we might not be looking heads down at the
indicator.....the warning tone should help remind us not to press the envelope
any further. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these
features in the cockpit! Just IMHO.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Wiring and fuel system
Message 73
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the
cockpit! Just IMHO.
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>Wiring and fuel system
>
>
>
All of this talk about stall warnings and AOA makes me wonder how in the
world I survived 43 years of flying without
them? I cannot think of one occasion that I have not been aware of what
my airplane was doing either in the pattern or
elsewhere.
do not archive
Jerry
PS Dean if you are talking about Gary and Mike I am not so sure it would
have helped.
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on |
zoot.lafn.org
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Dave,
That's nonsense. By your reasoning a "proficient" pilot should ditch his
altimeter and just eyeball altitude. While we're at it, let's lose the flaps
and learn to properly slip to landing. Don't carrier pilots use an AOA? Hard
to find pilots more proficient than that.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034@lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on
zoot.lafn.org
> --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
>
>
> >There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
> >device (or any other safety system for that matter)...
> >
>
> A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a
> nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he
> would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and
> you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>)
>
> Dave -6
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 75
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| Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm kind of tired of my crappy looking nutplate installations,
>and I'm looking for any tips/tricks to make them better.
>My basic problem is getting the screw hole to line up right.
>
>Are nutplate jigs worth what people like Avery charge
>for them (38 USD)? Any other tricks that you care to pass on?
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
Mickey, just take a nutplate for each size (most likely #6, 8, and 10)
and put a long screw in them ..... 1/2" or more ...... and cut the head
off the screw. Round off the raw end of the screw. Drill (or use the
existing hole) and place the screw/nutplate in place and drill one ear
and cleco. Drill the other ear and rivet away! (no, don't rivet your
jig!) LOTS cheaper than any purchased jigs ..... and real cheap to
replace as the ear holes will become oversize after a while.
Linn
Message 76
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--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>Anyone know whether my gear leg fairing hinges are stainless? They're very thin
material and sure do look like stainless, but I'm not sure. Only reason I care
is I'd love to have one less thing to prime.
>
>Steve Zicree
>RV4, wearing pants!
>
Good stainless won't attract a magnet (or the other way around!)
Linn
>
>
>
>
Message 77
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--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Dean,
I think you're dead-on accurate here. I've no experience in an RV, but have
seen ridiculously steep-banked RV's in the pattern. You mention using the
AOA to see how close we are to the "ragged edge". I agree whole-heartedly,
but I think we can go one better: Take her up nice and high and see just
what you can get away with before she stops flying. Straight ahead stalls
are great, but knowing where the break occurs in ALL attitudes is best. Back
when our balls-to-brains ratio was a bit too high, most of us figured out
exactly how fast we could take a corner in our car before the tires slip. I
want that same knowledge in my plane and will, with the proper training, try
to safely acquire it. That is if I ever finish this dang thing.
Steve Zicree
RV4, Fixin' to crack, I mean cut, the canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
> Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have
limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of
my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having
known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin
accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into
the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I
see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with
which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly
unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of
making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard
many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the
pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic
pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes
until it goes to infinity"!
> . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just
because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics.
We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An
AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the
ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we
might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should
help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew
might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just
IMHO.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Wiring and fuel system
>
>
Message 78
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--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
One more thing on the AOA issue. I'm guessing most of you have read it, but
to those who haven't, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It's an awesome book
on the subject.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
> --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>
> Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have
limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of
my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having
known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin
accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into
the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I
see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with
which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly
unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of
making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard
many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the
pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic
pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes
until it goes to infinity"!
> . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just
because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics.
We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An
AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the
ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we
might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should
help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew
might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just
IMHO.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Wiring and fuel system
>
>
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