Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:40 AM - Re: Spin Recovery (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
2. 04:40 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (Jerry Springer)
3. 05:09 AM - Re: ( Now Bolt Torque ) (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: ( Now Bolt Torque) (Rick Galati)
5. 05:39 AM - Re: ( Now Bolt Torque ) (Alex Peterson)
6. 06:04 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (Doug Rozendaal)
7. 06:34 AM - Re: planes are fun, -8 spin (RV_8 Pilot)
8. 06:37 AM - Re: 8A looks like What? (RV_8 Pilot)
9. 07:21 AM - Re: ( Now Bolt Torque ) (BRUCE GRAY)
10. 07:30 AM - Forced Landing. (long) (Gary Zilik)
11. 07:31 AM - Re: Spin Recovery (Richard Sipp)
12. 07:35 AM - Lead counter weights ()
13. 07:51 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (steve zicree)
14. 08:24 AM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (Skylor Piper)
15. 08:24 AM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (Stein Bruch)
16. 08:38 AM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (rv6tc)
17. 08:39 AM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (Bill Dube)
18. 08:41 AM - Re: falling leaf (EMAproducts@aol.com)
19. 08:42 AM - Re: Lead counter weights (Bill Dube)
20. 08:49 AM - Parking Brakes? (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
21. 09:02 AM - Several notes (Kosta Lewis)
22. 09:18 AM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (Dan Checkoway)
23. 09:19 AM - Re: LOE 5 Move (Jim L. Cox)
24. 09:39 AM - Re: Lead counter weights (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
25. 09:44 AM - Re: Lead counter weights (Peter Laurence)
26. 10:08 AM - Veterans ~ off subject (EMAproducts@aol.com)
27. 10:35 AM - Re: Parking Brakes? (Bobby Hester)
28. 11:14 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (Tedd McHenry)
29. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: falling leaf (Tedd McHenry)
30. 11:26 AM - Re: Re: falling leaf (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
31. 11:28 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (linn walters)
32. 11:28 AM - Re: Parking Brakes? (Mickey Coggins)
33. 11:43 AM - Pitot Options (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
34. 11:43 AM - Re: Parking Brakes? (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
35. 11:48 AM - Re: Lead counter weights (Chuck Weyant)
36. 11:52 AM - Re: And now for something completely different (steve zicree)
37. 11:59 AM - Re: Re: falling leaf (steve zicree)
38. 12:00 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Scott VanArtsdalen)
39. 12:10 PM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (JTAnon@aol.com)
40. 12:19 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (linn walters)
41. 12:33 PM - Re: Pitot Options (Derrick Aubuchon)
42. 12:36 PM - off topic.....sorry (Bill VonDane)
43. 12:38 PM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (linn walters)
44. 12:41 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (George Neal E Capt AU/PC)
45. 12:41 PM - Re: Lead counter weights (linn walters)
46. 12:47 PM - Re: Pitot Options (Scott VanArtsdalen)
47. 12:58 PM - Re: Spin Recovery (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
48. 01:06 PM - Re: Forced Landing. (long) (Brian Denk)
49. 01:11 PM - Re: Lead counter weights (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
50. 01:16 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (rv6tc)
51. 02:00 PM - >Re: Forced Landing (Long) (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
52. 02:11 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Scott VanArtsdalen)
53. 02:12 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (steve zicree)
54. 03:48 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (rv6tc)
55. 03:50 PM - Re: Lead counter weights (Jerry Grimmonpre)
56. 03:52 PM - Re: Lead counter weights (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
57. 03:54 PM - Re: Pitot Options (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
58. 04:08 PM - Avionics repairs (R.A.S)
59. 04:14 PM - Re: Lead counter weights (Dave Figgins)
60. 04:37 PM - Re: Pitot Options (Denis Walsh)
61. 05:19 PM - Re: Re: Lead counter weights ()
62. 05:36 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Bluecavu@aol.com)
63. 05:57 PM - finishing up sequence of events? Part II (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
64. 06:38 PM - Re: Avionics repairs (Dave Bristol)
65. 06:48 PM - Not quite so self locking nut plates (Brian Kraut)
66. 06:57 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Gordon or Marge Comfort)
67. 07:02 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (Kyle Boatright)
68. 07:38 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Greg Puckett)
69. 07:58 PM - Re: Parking Brakes? (Bobby Hester)
70. 08:17 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (Brian Kraut)
71. 08:21 PM - Re: And now for something completely different (Richard Sipp)
72. 09:48 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (Jim Jewell)
73. 09:49 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (steve zicree)
74. 10:48 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (Mickey Coggins)
75. 11:19 PM - Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates (Greg@itmack)
Message 1
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|
| Subject: | Re: Spin Recovery |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Ha, I was at Columbus AFB in '87. It sucked but some would feel better by saying,
well, at least it ain't Vance ;-)
i think you are right now that I tug on my greying beard a bit to stir the neurons.
My memory now says the tweet used a 5" howitser case or something similar.
We WISHED it had a rocket.
the envelope was pretty small. i think we all figured out that theoretically if
you had to punch in the pattern with any sink rate above 2000 ft/min and you
were almost anything other than wings level upright it was going to be close.
on the other hand, to cheer us up, they told us about an open house event somewhere
where some kid ejected while on the ground and survived thanks to it being
windy enough to help open the chute in time to slow down before impact.
all things considered, when in RV formations or Super Decathalon acro flying, I
find myself wishing i had even a tweet seat JUST IN CASE.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc"
>
> Nope. At least in 1987 it was still ballistic. A good friend of mine was a
> Tweet IP ( I was a T-38 FAIP) and he swore that he'd pop the canopy and dive
> out before he ever let the "boom bucket" have a crack at his spine. While I
> was at Vance, three guys all punched out of Tweets. All three walked away
> with minor scrapes, so maybe it was a bad rap. I never wanted to find out.
>
> Keith
>
> do not archive.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky"
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > it's what I remember for the tweet which did have a rocket motor (or so
> > they told us).
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke
> >>
> >> Sounds like the old T-33 seat. The kind with the 20mm cannon shell that
> >> was
> >> fired to rapidly shove the seat up the rails at some risk to your back.
> >> Later seats with a rocket motor were a lot kinder.
> >>
> >> Jim Oke
> >> Wpg, MB
> >>
> >> do not archive
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "lucky"
> >> To:
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >> >
> >> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to
> >> > be
> >> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >> >
> >> > TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >> >
> >> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> >> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >> >
> >> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
> >> >
> >> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> >> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >> >
> >> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >> >
> >> > lucky
> >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> >
> >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >> >>
> >> >> In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> >> >> T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >> >>
> >> >> I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
> >> >> Face "
> >> >> ???
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
> >> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >> >
> >> > TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >> >
> >> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> >> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >> >
> >> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
> >> >
> >> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> >> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >> >
> >> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >> >
> >> > lucky
> >> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >> >
> >> > -- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> >> > T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >> >
> >> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >> >
> >> > I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
> >> > Face
> >> > "
> >> > ???
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > it's what I remember for the tweet which did havea rocket motor (or so
> > they told us).
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke
> >
> > Sounds like the old T-33 seat. The kind with the 20mm cannon shell that
> > was
> > fired to rapidly shove the seat up the rails at some risk to your back.
> > Later seats with a rocket motor were a lot kinder.
> >
> > Jim Oke
> > Wpg, MB
> >
> > do not archive
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lucky"
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
> >
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to be
> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >
> > TYPED IN BOLD F
> > ACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >
> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >
> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
> >
> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >
> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >
> > lucky
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> > T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >
> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >
> > I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
> > Face "
> > ???
> >
> > &g
> > t;
> >
> >
> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >
> > TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >
> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >
> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
> >
> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >
> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >
> > lucky
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> > T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >
> >
> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >
> > I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
> > Face
> > "
> > ???
> >
> >
> > e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> >
> >
> > s
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Ha, I was at Columbus AFB in '87. It sucked but somewould feel better by saying,
well, at least it ain't Vance ;-)
i think you are right now that I tug on my greying beard a bit to stir the neurons.
My memory now says the tweet used a 5" howitser case or something similar.
We WISHED it had a rocket.
the envelope was pretty small. i think we all figured out that theoretically if
you had to punch in the pattern with any sink rate above 2000 ft/min and you
were almost anything other than wings level uprightit was going to be close. on
the other hand, to cheer us up, they told us about an open house event somewhere
where some kid ejected while on the ground and survived thanks to it being
windy enough to help open the chute in time to slow down before impact.
all things considered, when in RV formations or Super Decathalon acro flying, I
find myself wishing i had even a tweet seat JUST IN CASE.
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <RV6TC@MYAWAI.COM>
Nope. At least in 1987 it was still ballistic. A good friend of mine was a
Tweet IP ( I was a T-38 FAIP) and he swore that he'd pop the canopy and dive
out before he ever let the "boom bucket" have a crack at his spine. While I
was at Vance, three guys all punched out of Tweets. All three walked away
with minor scrapes, so maybe it was a bad rap. I never wanted to find out.
Keith
do not archive.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <LUCKYMACY@COMCAST.NET>
To: <RV-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
it's
what I remember for the tweet which did have a rocket motor (or so
they told us).
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke
Sounds like the old T-33 seat. The kind with the 20mm cannon shell that
was
fired to rapidly shove the seat up the rails at some risk to your back.
Later seats with a rocket motor were a lot kinder.
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky"
To:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
&
gt;
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to
be
committed to wrote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
&g
t;
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
Face "
???
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
committed to wrote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
&
gt; REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
Face
"
???
e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
it's what I remember for the tweet which did havea rocket motor (or so
they told us).
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <WJOKE@SHAW.CA>
Sounds like the old T-33 seat. The kind with the 20mm cannon shell that
was
fired to rapidly shove the seat up the rails at some risk to your back.
Later seats with a rocket motor were a lot kinder.
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <LUCKYMACY@COMCAST.NET>
To: <RV-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to be
committed to wrote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD F
ACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message
--------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
Face "
???
g
t;
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
committed to wrote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQU
EEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
Face
"
???
e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
s
>
ion
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@earthlink.net>
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>So here's one for pilots of all ages (even gray hairs), experience levels (students
too), and political leanings (except maybe Nader-ites). I've often wondered,
and been asked by many, why the safety record for G.A. is so much worse than
that for commercial carriers. We constantly hear that, statistically speaking,
flying on an airliner is safer than brushing your teeth or what have you,
but flying in a private aircraft is much more dangerous than even driving your
car. I've casually looked over the numbers and it is very true, no matter how
you slice it, that G.A. is much more dangerous than airline travel.
>
>
Steve,
Not sure if you are familiar with the Nall report or not but it is a
good place to start getting some statistics. I get this information at
each Flight Instructor renewal I attend.
www.aopa.org/asf/publications/02nall.pdf
Jerry
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: ( Now Bolt Torque ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Very good point, Alex, about the fatigue life driving the optimum clamping
force. It occurred to me that clamping aluminum may have something to do with
the seemingly low torque specs in A/C handbooks. Would the greater temp. coef.
of expansion of AL be the reason?
Now about that fatigue life -- Why does Lycoming specify only torquing the
rod bolts one time, and throwing them away if they have ever been torqued? Are
they really running the bolts that close to the elastic limit? Does
stretching them within their elastic limit reduce their life at all? I mean, springs
flex forever without breaking. Surely a dozen retorques on a rod bolt isn't
going to reduce its life, is it? Do they just like to sell those expensive rod
bolts?
This ought to get me flamed real good!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (It flies! -- 67 hours now)
In a message dated 11/15/04 9:03:08 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
alexpeterson@earthlink.net writes:
> Torque specs are generally not designed to prevent bolts from breaking, but
> to minimize the chances of fatigue failure. After all, if you break it
> during torquing, no big deal, it is simply replaced. And, if it isn't
> broken during the torquing step, it is very unlikely to simply break in use
> (ignoring fatigue). However, in most situations, there is an optimum
> clamping force which maximizes the fatigue life of the bolt. Too tight or
> too loose and fatigue life is reduced. Keep this in mind as you torque
> down the empennage mounting bolts. It is also good practice to overtorque
> the bolt a little initially to crunch dust and small debris in the joint,
> then back off the bolt and properly torque.
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A 552 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
Message 4
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=tQmox5oS7ZxXQbOpqF7E81JOTQ+gkimCPS5tsbGwNPZ+B3wOL2+S7yIUCplkvIa8hfX2Avpol62U37o15c9gFVD7fvYzIPtWOMj/eSnaKKP6rWM0arkjvHCPX+ltHv/O4xt/k9iOIWf04dz6EV/aK/ZPF9LV7JW2x5Pups+wObU=
;
| Subject: | Re: ( Now Bolt Torque) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
In my experience, applying the specified torque to all manner of bolts was emphasized
repeatedly at McDonnell-Douglas. And with good reason. If you worked with
hi-loks for very long, you undoubtedly cracked or sheared the head clean off
many of those close tolerance fasteners by getting too ambitious with your
calibrated wrist. Periodic classes had a way of underscoring just how easy it
is to over torque using the calibrated wrist method. Simply put, intuitively
we tend to over-torque. Stripping the threads is another common result of over
torquing. Granted, most of us will never install a hi-lok, and I cannot honestly
recall ever having sheared the head off an AN bolt, but I have sheared all
manner of bolts off cleanly with the structure at the thread end, including
those on titanium bolts (try drilling those heads off for pin removal) by applying
too much torque to the nut. All that said, in the real world we are constantly
challenged with bolts locations in the most d
ifficult
areas to get a torque wrench to. Sometimes it seems, you just have to make do
by being aware of the potential consequences and simply be sensible with your
approach.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
Message 5
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| Subject: | ( Now Bolt Torque ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> at all? I mean, springs
> flex forever without breaking. Surely a dozen retorques on a
> rod bolt isn't
> going to reduce its life, is it? Do they just like to sell
> those expensive rod
> bolts?
Many springs are not designed for infinite life. Garage door springs are
not designed for infinite life, for some unknown reason. Regarding the rod
end bolts, one torquing does indeed chew up some fatigue life, and really
bad things happen when one of those lets go.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 552 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> So here's one for pilots of all ages (even gray hairs), experience levels
(students too), and political leanings (except maybe Nader-ites). I've often
wondered, and been asked by many, why the safety record for G.A. is so much
worse than that for commercial carriers.
Now here is a topic!!!
I am the chair of the Commemorative Air Force Stand-Eval committee and
Flight safety board. We have had a couple tough years and we are trying to
figure out what to do about it. I have spent the last year working on
programs and trying to develop risk management strategies for Warbird
aircraft. Last month I attended the Bombardier Learjet Safety stand-down
where I listened to some of the best and brightest in the world of aviation
psycology, psychairatry, and phsiology. It was a great seminar but also
disconcerting. As pilots if we have the choice, we often make poor choices.
To answer your question, the airlines have taken most of the "Choice" out of
the flying. These are called S.O.Ps, in short, "Standards" Net result,
safer skies. In G.A. we make our own choices and as a group, we do a poor
job. So we have to grow up, take responsibility and make better choices as
a group. This involes education, attitude, and peer council. We have lots
of work to do.
The experimental world has a pretty lousy safety record as well. My
understanding is that RV's do better than the general homebuilt population
and I am inclined to believe that based on the insurance rates. Ask your
self this question how many friends have you lost flying little airplanes??
For me it is a huge number and we need to change that.
I am going to run out on a limb here. Lets try to do an exercise here on
the list that we did in the CAF. Every pilot went through this process in
the CAF. Did it help? I don't know, but it caused us to sit down among our
peers and discuss the risks in our business and brainstorm ways to reduce
them.
I would like as many people as possible to contribute the following
information. If we are willing to acknowledge that there is risk associated
with what we do, let's talk about some of those risks. What bad can come
from that.
Here are the questions and included is an example of answers.
1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built aircraft.
These are things we see lots of other people do that is risky.
i.e. First flights by builders with low experience who have not been
flying for very much for 5 years while they are building.
2. Rate that risk. 1-10
There are lots of accidents on first flights, and more
importantly, there are lots of "near accidents" I will call it a 9 based on
what I have seen at my airport
3. Rate the reward. 1-10
It is a fairly high reward, there is a feeling that the builder
deserves the thrill of the first flight.
4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
The EAA flight advisor program is a great strategy, but several
people do not use it. They "Choose" a higher level of risk instead of
accepting the fact that someone may tell them they are not ready. As a
community we should STRONGLY encourage our local builders to use the Flight
Advisor Program.
Below are the 4 questions, cut out every thing else in this email and answer
these questions, and then others can add or discuss mitigating strategies.
If someone else has already identified your risk, do it anyway, it will be a
vote for the importance of that area and you may have different ratings or
mitigating strategy. Here are the rules. The risk, the risk rating, and the
reward rating are not adjustable. If someone sees something as a risk then,
so be it. Arguing about the risk is denial, our mission is to discuss the
mitigating strategies.
This should be fun!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Push the reply button and delete everything above this line, then answer
these questions and push send.
1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built aircraft.
Things we see lots of pilots do that is risky.
2. Rate that risk. 1-10
3. Rate the reward. 1-10
4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: planes are fun, -8 spin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Brian pointed out the issue that may have caused confusion.
I don't recall ever being able to get my -8 to develop a spin with elevator
and rudder only. Perhaps the CG was just too far forward with me alone in
the front - but that was how I wanted it and the only way I've tried it.
Set power to 10-15" MAP then slow the plane by raising the nose. Just
before stall, pull back on the stick and then press (left) rudder - I don't
slam them. This will make most planes spin. Not the case with (my) -8.
Had to add opposite (right!) aileron as I add rudder. It spins nicely that
way.
One of these days I would like to explore some inverted spin work. Should
probably get some dual in a Pitts or Decathlon on this becasue it's just
outside my comfort envelope right now.
Let me know if you still have questions.
Bryan
> >Gotta add opposite aileron with the -8 to get it to spin. Otherwise,
>you'll
> >just have a very fast downward spiral based upon my experience.
> >
>I find this interesting. I would suspect that adding aileron would
>create the spiral, not the spin! Shows you what I know. As you
>approach the stall (either power on or power off) and you apply full up
>elevator (actually creates the stall) and then shortly after briskly
>apply rudder in the direction that you want the spin ...... that should
>be all you need. I suspect, and I could be terribly wrong here, is that
>the stall doesn't develop or the rudder isn't that effective, I hope
>you respond on-list or off because although I'll probably never spin a
>-8, I'll add it to my knowledge base.
>Linn ..... enjoying this thread
>do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: 8A looks like What? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
yep - I agree. If you're going to do "that" to a perfectly good -8, then at
least paint it up black and orange or black and yellow like a T-34. ;) ;)
2 cents
Bryan
do not archive
>Mentor T-34 to me...
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ( Now Bolt Torque ) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Hey Chris, Where are you located? I myself am in the "one done one to go",
on my RV8 wings. The first one went together ok no complaints but the second
one is flying together with great results. I may have to put in for the
fuse. kit sooner than expected.
Good luck with yours.
Bruce Gray
RV8 Wings
#81745
>From: Christopher Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: ( Now Bolt Torque )
>Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:06:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
>
>Dean...
>
>The bolt torque issue is one that I have always had a tough time
>reconciling. Too many variables. Lubricated threads and head? Or not?
>Lock nut or plain nut? Locking nut plate or not... On and on. For small
>fasteners the torque required to overcome the locking fastener is generally
>as much as the "published" torque value which is ambiguous since the spec
>does not usually indicate lubed or dry.
> The method that is consistant but tedious is to measure rotation of the
>fastener head after it is seated. Knowing the pitch one can calculate the
>amount of preload or tension is generated per degree of rotation. (Whith
>the help of a stress/strain curve for the material the fastener is made
>of).
>For fasteners less then 1/4" preload shoud be 90% of material yield
>strength. greater then 1/4" 100% of yield strength. (Not ultimate strength)
>
>All this being said... I usually go by my calibrated wrist to know how
>tight is tight.
>
>
>Chris Stone
>RV-8 wings (one done one to go)
>Mech/Aero Eng.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dean <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question ( Now Bolt
>Torque )
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean" <dvanwinkle@royell.net>
>
>Dean
>
>I was taught that the proper torque for bolts and nuts/nutplates was
>determined by adding the torque spec to the amount of torque required to
>overcome thread friction of the locking nut/nutplate. Otherwise you will
>not attain the desired clamp-up of the fastener. Worst case: Consider
>that
>torque to overcome thread friction alone exceeds the torque spec for the
>fastener.
>
>Dean Van Winkle
>Retired Aeronautical Engineer
>RV-9A Fuselage/Finish
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
> >
> > >Time: 07:19:50 AM PST US
> > >From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
> > >Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
> > >
> > On a more realistic note, I was installing my Odessey battery tray today
>with AN3 bolts and nutplates and a question occurred to me. We have torque
>specs for the regular nuts and stop nuts that we use but is there a torque
>spec for a bolt that goes into a nutplate? I got out my trusty "Standard
>Aircraft Handbook" but no answers there, just specs for standard type nuts.
>Any thoughts on this? I just tightend the bolts till the nutdriver
>wouldn't
>turn anymore, since they're into nutplates they're NOT going to fall out
>but, do I need to worry about torquing them? Thanks.
> >
> > Dean Psiropoulos
> > RV-6A N197DM
> >
>
>
Message 10
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"rv-list@matronics.com" <rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
another story.
After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
Then my lycoming started running rough.
I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
a uneventful flight.
What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
9.2:1 pistons.
Denver Jackpot air-race.
Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
We went to OSH, no problems.
Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
and uneventful flight home.
I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
spells.
Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
something is fixed.
Some observations:
The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
does not seem to help.
All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
partial throttle settings.
boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
Any ideas??
Gary Zilik
RV-6A N99PZ
700 hours tach time.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Spin Recovery |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to be
> committed to wrote memory. They were
>
> TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
>
> HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
>
> WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
I'll guess, T-38.
Dick Sipp
RV4
RV10
> 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
>
> (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
>
> lucky
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
>>
>> In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
>> T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
>>
>> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
>>
>> I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
>> Face "
>> ???
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
> committed to wrote memory. They were
>
> TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
>
> HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
>
> WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
>
> 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
>
> (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
>
> lucky
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
>
> Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
>
> I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold Face
> "
> ???
>
>
> e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff? How accurate does
the shape have to be?
I do not have a band saw.
Dave (empennage almost done waiting for wings)
Do not archive
Message 13
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|
| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Doug,
Ahh, Choice. The whole thing boils down to the lack of choice in commercial.
Hadn't thought of it way. Thanks
Steve
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: And now for something completely different
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> >
> > So here's one for pilots of all ages (even gray hairs), experience
levels
> (students too), and political leanings (except maybe Nader-ites). I've
often
> wondered, and been asked by many, why the safety record for G.A. is so
much
> worse than that for commercial carriers.
>
> Now here is a topic!!!
>
> I am the chair of the Commemorative Air Force Stand-Eval committee and
> Flight safety board. We have had a couple tough years and we are trying
to
> figure out what to do about it. I have spent the last year working on
> programs and trying to develop risk management strategies for Warbird
> aircraft. Last month I attended the Bombardier Learjet Safety stand-down
> where I listened to some of the best and brightest in the world of
aviation
> psycology, psychairatry, and phsiology. It was a great seminar but also
> disconcerting. As pilots if we have the choice, we often make poor
choices.
> To answer your question, the airlines have taken most of the "Choice" out
of
> the flying. These are called S.O.Ps, in short, "Standards" Net result,
> safer skies. In G.A. we make our own choices and as a group, we do a
poor
> job. So we have to grow up, take responsibility and make better choices
as
> a group. This involes education, attitude, and peer council. We have
lots
> of work to do.
>
> The experimental world has a pretty lousy safety record as well. My
> understanding is that RV's do better than the general homebuilt population
> and I am inclined to believe that based on the insurance rates. Ask your
> self this question how many friends have you lost flying little
airplanes??
> For me it is a huge number and we need to change that.
>
> I am going to run out on a limb here. Lets try to do an exercise here on
> the list that we did in the CAF. Every pilot went through this process in
> the CAF. Did it help? I don't know, but it caused us to sit down among
our
> peers and discuss the risks in our business and brainstorm ways to reduce
> them.
>
> I would like as many people as possible to contribute the following
> information. If we are willing to acknowledge that there is risk
associated
> with what we do, let's talk about some of those risks. What bad can come
> from that.
>
> Here are the questions and included is an example of answers.
>
> 1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built
aircraft.
> These are things we see lots of other people do that is risky.
> i.e. First flights by builders with low experience who have not
been
> flying for very much for 5 years while they are building.
>
> 2. Rate that risk. 1-10
> There are lots of accidents on first flights, and more
> importantly, there are lots of "near accidents" I will call it a 9 based
on
> what I have seen at my airport
>
> 3. Rate the reward. 1-10
> It is a fairly high reward, there is a feeling that the builder
> deserves the thrill of the first flight.
>
> 4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
> The EAA flight advisor program is a great strategy, but several
> people do not use it. They "Choose" a higher level of risk instead of
> accepting the fact that someone may tell them they are not ready. As a
> community we should STRONGLY encourage our local builders to use the
Flight
> Advisor Program.
>
> Below are the 4 questions, cut out every thing else in this email and
answer
> these questions, and then others can add or discuss mitigating strategies.
> If someone else has already identified your risk, do it anyway, it will be
a
> vote for the importance of that area and you may have different ratings or
> mitigating strategy. Here are the rules. The risk, the risk rating, and
the
> reward rating are not adjustable. If someone sees something as a risk
then,
> so be it. Arguing about the risk is denial, our mission is to discuss the
> mitigating strategies.
>
> This should be fun!
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
>
> Push the reply button and delete everything above this line, then answer
> these questions and push send.
>
> 1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built
aircraft.
> Things we see lots of pilots do that is risky.
>
> 2. Rate that risk. 1-10
>
> 3. Rate the reward. 1-10
>
> 4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
>
>
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper <skylor4@yahoo.com>
What's is your engine monitor telling you when it runs
rough? What are the CHT's & EGT's doing. Which
cylinder is changing?
You DO have an engine monitor, right? They're worth
their weight in gold, and can often help identify
problems before they bocome serious.
Skylor
--- Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik
> <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
> Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had
> to dodge the low
> lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace
> above us. There was a
> nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we
> cruised at 185 kt
> ground speed. What better flying could you have. The
> trip home was
> another story.
>
> After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we
> turned south and chased
> after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7.
> Prop to 2500 rpm,
> full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our
> sites. As we got
> near the subie we called him up and he cranked his
> prop to high rpm.
> That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still
> closing the range.
> Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
> I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still
> ran a little rough.
> Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen
> up more. Mixture back
> in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and
> could not keep up and
> things were getting rougher quickly. I switched
> tanks, turned the boost
> pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the
> engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles
> SSE but I did not
> think I would make it. (remember that nice south
> breeze) I was looking
> at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the
> mags (one EI and one
> mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel
> flow was showing
> approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle
> 2500rpm and still showing
> 24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to
> shake the airframe a lot
> and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie
> chase. I'm now high
> 6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500'
> AGL when I finally see
> the grass strip just south of my position. The
> engine is hardly running
> now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ
> into the steepest
> slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I
> hate to admit it
> but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed
> over the corn on
> the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for
> altitude and pushed the
> throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around
> for another approach
> with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the
> standing corn on the
> north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on
> terra firma. The
> butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to
> do the go-around.
>
> Now some may question my next move. She ran good on
> the go-around so I
> did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore
> if I was not off
> the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort
> the takeoff. FTG
> was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt
> strip 10 south. I
> flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any
> problems. A little
> fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but
> other than that it was
> a uneventful flight.
>
> What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
> Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated
> swinging a Hartzell.
> 9.2:1 pistons.
>
> Denver Jackpot air-race.
> Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level
> full throttle 2600
> rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if
> the engine seemed
> rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air.
> I thought I leaned
> too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned
> and all was well.
>
> Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full
> throttle 2400 rpm
> we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned
> west towards
> Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again
> ran rough, like too
> lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red
> knob in again.
> Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A
> quick low level run
> down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the
> rockpile to Denver. The
> engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
> I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out
> of the ordinary.
>
> We went to OSH, no problems.
>
> Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the
> way back while
> dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I
> checked everything but
> the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally
> after that and had
> and uneventful flight home.
>
> I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both
> tanks, checked the
> carb screen again and replace the intake tube
> gaskets on the cylinder
> head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only
> hand tight. the two
> others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines
> and valve. no leaks.
>
> Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG
> the engine ran rough
> and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not
> help. Aborted
> mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced
> throttle to land.
>
> Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
> Many breakfast flights east and west over the
> rockpile with no rough
> spells.
>
> Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially
> grounded until
> something is fixed.
>
> Some observations:
>
> The red knob seems to be directly connected to the
> problem but lately
> does not seem to help.
>
> All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say
> seems, to run good at
> partial throttle settings.
>
> boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes
> no change.
>
> I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or
> something.
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Gary Zilik
> RV-6A N99PZ
> 700 hours tach time.
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein@steinair.com>
Hi Gary,
Sorry to hear about your experience, but I'm glad all worked out.
If it were me (and I hope it won't be soon), I would probably take that carb of
as quickly as I could and tear it apart. Personally, I think I'd be looking
real close at the needle/seat assy, jet's, bowl venting, etc..
Given your description of scenarios, you might also take a close look at your fuel
tank venting as well.
For around $400.00 you can get a quick kit for your carb with a new needle/seat
assy, and at the very least, you'll get a carb rebuild out of the deal.
That's just where I'd start, but it's your machine and you need to do what you
think is right. I'm sure there will be a flood of conjecture coming up, but you
went through most of the other systems (fuel supply-FW aft, Ignition, etc...)
while flying, so that little red know is very suspect.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
do not archive
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
>Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
>lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
>nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
>ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
>another story.
>
>After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
>after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
>full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
>near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
>That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
>Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
>I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
>Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
>in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
>things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
>pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
>think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
>at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
>mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
>approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
>24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
>and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
>6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
>the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
>now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
>slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
>but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
>the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
>throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
>with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
>north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
>butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
>
>Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
>did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
>the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
>was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
>flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
>fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
>a uneventful flight.
>
>What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
>Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
>9.2:1 pistons.
>
>Denver Jackpot air-race.
>Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
>rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
>rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
>too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
>
>Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
>we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
>Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
>lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
>Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
>down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
>engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
>I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>We went to OSH, no problems.
>
>Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
>dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
>the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
>and uneventful flight home.
>
>I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
>carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
>head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
>others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
>
>Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
>and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
>mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
>
>Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
>Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
>spells.
>
>Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
>something is fixed.
>
>Some observations:
>
>The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
>does not seem to help.
>
>All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
>partial throttle settings.
>
>boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
>
>I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
>
>Any ideas??
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A N99PZ
>700 hours tach time.
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Hey Gary,
I have no ideas, but I'm glad you and the plane are down safe and sound.
Need a new seat cushion??
Keith Hughes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Forced Landing. (long)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
. A little
> fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
> a uneventful flight.
>
> What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
>
do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
This sounds like classic carb ice. Your carb heat is not working
for some reason. It also may be working very poorly.
When you throttled back for a time, the carb had a chance to thaw.
That is why the engine recovered.
If the carb heat is working correctly, you should see a slight
drop in power a few moments after you pull the lever. If no RPM drop
occurs, the heat is not working.
Keep in mind that the muff offers some flow restriction. Thus, the
presence of RPM drop does not indicate for certain that the carb heat is
working. (A lack of drop, however, indicates that it is NOT working, if
that makes any sense.)
If you have RPM drop, you next need to test the temperature of the
carb venturi somehow. If you can rig up a thermocouple somehow, this would
be the best way to be sure the carb heat is working properly.
At 08:30 AM 11/16/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
>Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
>lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
>nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
>ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
>another story.
>
>After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
>after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
>full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
>near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
>That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
>Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
>I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
>Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
>in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
>things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
>pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
>think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
>at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
>mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
>approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
>24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
>and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
>6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
>the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
>now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
>slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
>but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
>the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
>throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
>with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
>north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
>butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
>
>Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
>did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
>the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
>was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
>flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
>fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
>a uneventful flight.
>
>What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
>Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
>9.2:1 pistons.
>
>Denver Jackpot air-race.
>Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
>rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
>rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
>too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
>
>Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
>we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
>Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
>lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
>Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
>down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
>engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
>I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>We went to OSH, no problems.
>
>Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
>dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
>the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
>and uneventful flight home.
>
>I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
>carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
>head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
>others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
>
>Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
>and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
>mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
>
>Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
>Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
>spells.
>
>Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
>something is fixed.
>
>Some observations:
>
>The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
>does not seem to help.
>
>All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
>partial throttle settings.
>
>boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
>
>I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
>
>Any ideas??
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A N99PZ
>700 hours tach time.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: falling leaf |
--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Falling leaf?
It's about what it felt like. Except the leaf is working smoothly and
seems to always stay upright... well maybe not now that I think about
it. . I most certainly did neither at the outset.
>>>That is what we used to call it, Still teach it to every student prior to
solo, and have for around 42 years. This is one of the problems in modern
instruction methods, one must learn to fly the airplane, and what happens if
you do or don't do it right!
An "old timer"?
Elbie
www.riteangle.com
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 08:35 AM 11/16/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
>
>
>I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
>weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff?
Band saw. Pocket knife.
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
Does anyone have a plan of source for parking brakes for a RV-8?
Thanks,
Bob
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
>WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
>1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
>2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
>(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
>Sounds like the old T-33 seat. The kind with the 20mm cannon shell that
was
>fired to rapidly shove the seat up the rails at some risk to your back.
>Later seats with a rocket motor were a lot kinder.
>Holy Cow!!!!! That is an old one (sorry... not to imply that you are
old).
>They got rid of the leg braces and the triggers a looooong time ago!
The
>leg braces were automatic on the new seats, and they figured out that
at
>T-38 speeds, the triggers wasted valuable time. The new(??) Bold Face
was
>"HANDGRIPS-RAISE". Something I could remember.
OK: is this a design change in the current plans? My -4 plans are from
the early '90s. Oh, wait: here it is; page 42: "Replace 20mm cannon
shell with rocket motor, using adaptor and motor provided. Order on line
or from Van's accessory catalog." Whew; I thought I had missed
something.
Spin recovery: sometimes you need a small blast of prop wash from the
fan to give the rudder more authority. If you can, learn spins in
something docile like a Cub or Champ because they behave and recover
quickly. But even in one of those, they can look pretty freaky the first
couple if times.
Falling leaf: taught frequently in the "old days" for coordination and
feeling the airplane. Seen from the front (or back) the airplane is in a
stall and drifting left and right as it descends, like a falling leaf
would look. Easy in the Cub, one of the primary trainers when these were
taught, more of challenge in the RVs.
Fire extinguisher: mine sits on the left front seat floor pan, facing
forward, end against the spar, near the right fuselage wall. It takes a
pretty good pull to get it out of its holder; it would take a lot of
negative Gs to pull it out.
Bolt torque: how DARE you talk about something builder related.
Building a Cozy: it will take longer to build, fly differently, take
longer to take off and land, be "cozy" in the front seat, make more
noise in an off-field landing, look more futuristic, but still be an
airplane you would be proud to own. You should fly both before deciding,
not depend on the occasional cat fight that occurs on this list. Get a
couple hundred folks together in any venue and at least 2 or 3 will not
get along.
Cat fights: sometimes it is easy to yell at someone on the faceless
platform we have here. It would be a little more civil, perhaps, in a
friendly face to face discussion, although there would still be a few
"your full of crap"s exchanged, no doubt. I have been on this list for
some time and am pretty amused with what occasionally goes on, but it
all dies away, sometimes with people leaving the list in disgust, most
staying on, waiting for the next one, holding their opinions for
"monitor mumbling" at home. It can actually make the list more
interesting, especially in Digest mode. My delete button is getting the
ink worn off but still works.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled program, which is already in
progress.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Suggestion: replace your battery about every 3 years. 4 years was just a
little too long.
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Carb ice is my bet. Scares the bejeezus out of you the first time... 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik@excelgeo.com>
<rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Forced Landing. (long)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
> Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
> lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
> nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
> ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
> another story.
>
> After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
> after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
> full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
> near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
> That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
> Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
> I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
> Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
> in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
> things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
> pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
> think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
> at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
> mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
> approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
> 24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
> and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
> 6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
> the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
> now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
> slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
> but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
> the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
> throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
> with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
> north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
> butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
>
> Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
> did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
> the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
> was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
> flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
> fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
> a uneventful flight.
>
> What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
> Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
> 9.2:1 pistons.
>
> Denver Jackpot air-race.
> Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
> rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
> rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
> too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
>
> Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
> we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
> Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
> lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
> Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
> down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
> engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
> I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
>
> We went to OSH, no problems.
>
> Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
> dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
> the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
> and uneventful flight home.
>
> I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
> carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
> head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
> others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
>
> Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
> and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
> mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
>
> Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
> Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
> spells.
>
> Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
> something is fixed.
>
> Some observations:
>
> The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
> does not seem to help.
>
> All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
> partial throttle settings.
>
> boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
>
> I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
>
> Any ideas??
>
> Gary Zilik
> RV-6A N99PZ
> 700 hours tach time.
>
>
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim L. Cox" <jlcox@elp.rr.com>
Santa Teresa (5T6) is my "home airport" and I believe it would be perfect for the
LOE flyin. Lots of open ramp space. It sits out by itself but is no farther
from the west side of El Paso than LRU is from Las Cruces.
There is a nice little FBO run by former El Paso mayor Suzi Azar called Blue Feather
Aero. It's only been there a couple of years; I noticed that it's not listed
on Airnav.com.
http://www.bluefeatheraero.com
I'm a controller at ELP so if anyone has any questions about flying into the area
I can get you the answers.
Jim L. Cox
Just starting RV-8A emp kit.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Dave -
I filed and filed and filed and whittled and filed, all the while muttering
obscenities because the old style seems so much simpler...
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG (tanks)
RV-8 N998GM (emp)
>I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff? How accurate does
the shape have to be?<
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: Peter Laurence <dr.laurence@mbdi.org>
Dave
I would suggest that you purchase a band saw. This will help in cutting many
pieces in the life if your project.
Example: I cut the stiffeners with a band saw and than creeped up on the
line with circular sander.
When you get to the tanks, you'll have to cut the tank the T-905 -L brackets
to shape. I wouldn't try this with a hack saw.
There are a lot of "good" inexpensive saws . I have one that I purchased
(made in china) for over twenty years and still going.
Oh, The lead weights cut very easily on the band saw.
Peter
>
>
> I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
> weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff? How accurate does
> the shape have to be?
> I do not have a band saw.
>
> Dave (empennage almost done waiting for wings)
>
> Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Veterans ~ off subject |
--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
To all Veterans:
It has become even more evident after the last few days there are many many
Veterans on this list.
I wish to thank all sincerely for their service to their country, regardless
of branch of service or duties.
Freedom is not Free, it has been paid for with many lives, injuries and
separation from loved ones.
Sincerely,
Elbie Mendenhall
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:49 (CDT)
> Subject: RV-List: Parking Brakes?
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen"
>
> Does anyone have a plan of source for parking brakes for a RV-8?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
This might be useful: http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/pvpv1page.htm
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Steve:
Why is the risk of light plane flying greater than the risk of airline flying?
A good question! Here are some observations I made as a SAR pilot a few years
ago.
If you throw in all forms of commercial aviation (without considering weighting
factors), the picture for commercial aviation looks a lot worse than when you
just look at airline flying. Small commercial operators and bush pilots have a
much worse safety record than the airlines, just like GA. This probably
reflects the kind of flying they do more so than it reflects the pilots
themselves. The GA category more closely resembles that end of commercial
aviation, and although I haven't seen the stats I suspect they would be much
closer. When I was in SAR, in Canada, a huge proportion of the accidents were
float planes, and many of those accidents were in the "stuff happens" category,
i.e. not necessarily something the pilot did grossly wrong, but more a
reflection of the environment.
However, many light plane accidents are the result of poor decisions by the
pilot. I suspect that happens more in light plane flying because of the lower
(average) level of knowledge and experience. We should not be too quick to
judge these pilots, though. Light-plane pilots often face decisions that are
just as difficult to make as those that airline pilots face, but with less
experience to guide them. And some decisions, especially weather decisions,
are harder when you fly an RV or C-172 than when you fly a jet. When you're
flying jet IFR, the weather limits are pretty clear, the forecast has to be
pretty far off before you run into problems, and almost certainly you can
divert to your alternate without trouble. You're above the weather most of the
time. When you're flying light-planes, and you're only VFR rated, there are a
lot of things that can mess up your flight that simply aren't factors for a
jet.
Off the top of my head, here are some of the (non-float-plane) accidents my
squadron investigated when I was doing SAR, and their probable causes.
* Heavily loaded Cardinal crashes in mountainous terrain. Probably
a downdraft forced it down. 2,000-hour instructor pilot. 4 fatal.
* Light single crashes in mountainous terrain, attempting to follow VOR airway
into IMC. 4 fatal.
* Navajo brought down by ice. De-icing system not operational but pilot
probably not aware of fault due to improper maintenance records. 1 fatal.
* Centurion engine failure leads to off-field forced landing. No injuries.
This is a small sample, but I think these are fairly typical of light-plane
accidents. The first two are clearly pilot error, the result of poor
decision-making. In both cases the pilot could have taken a different route
that would have avoided the problem. The Cardinal was also proably overloaded
-- if not legally, at least more so that was prudent for the terrain and
weather. It would be very unusual for a commercial jet operation to have an
accident like either of those, because they don't operate in that environment.
Whether or not airline pilots would be less likely to make the same mistakes as
these pilots under the same conditions is an open question, but my guess is
they would, based on the airline pilots I've flown with.
The Navajo pilot was qualified for the IFR flight, and the weather was within
the capabilities of his airplane. He didn't know the de-icing systems were
faulty, and I have no reason to suspect he would have made the trip had he
known. So this accident reflects the quality of the maintenance (and
maintenance procedures) of the operation he worked for. My guess is that this
is another area where the airlines are generally ahead.
The Centurion pilot did a fabulous job. He recognized the impending failure
(dropping oil pressure), made a mayday call with a position report, and made a
successful (i.e. walk-away) forced landing in very rough terrain. The SAR
airplane was airborne before he even hit the ground. So the issue here is the
lack of engine redundancy, a problem the airlines don't have to deal with.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: falling leaf |
--> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Something not mentioned about the falling leaf is that it can be used to
improve your chances of surviving a forced landing in bad terrain. You ride
the falling leaf manoeuvre right to the ground. I'm not sure how well it would
work in an RV, but in most light planes it's supposed to give you a rate of
decent no worse than a parachute, and in some cases much better. (An
old-fashioned round parachute, that is.)
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: falling leaf |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/04 2:20:39 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
tedd@vansairforce.org writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> Something not mentioned about the falling leaf is that it can be used to
> improve your chances of surviving a forced landing in bad terrain. You ride
> the falling leaf manoeuvre right to the ground. I'm not sure how well it
> would
> work in an RV, but in most light planes it's supposed to give you a rate of
> decent no worse than a parachute, and in some cases much better. (An
> old-fashioned round parachute, that is.)
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
>
Ted,
Please explain this "falling leaf manoeuvre." I have tried something similar
from about 10 feet above the ground, and fell like a rock -- fortunately not
in my RV!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying and landing since July)
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>So here's one for pilots of all ages (even gray hairs), experience levels (students
too), and political leanings (except maybe Nader-ites). I've often wondered,
and been asked by many, why the safety record for G.A. is so much worse than
that for commercial carriers. We constantly hear that, statistically speaking,
flying on an airliner is safer than brushing your teeth or what have you,
but flying in a private aircraft is much more dangerous than even driving your
car. I've casually looked over the numbers and it is very true, no matter how
you slice it, that G.A. is much more dangerous than airline travel. I know that
one reason is quality of training and another is probably the repetitive nature
of commercial aviation operations. I think safety systems and redundancy
are also probably superior in jets, but those aircraft are also significantly
more complex and unforgiving than light aircraft. I'm mostly looking for some
brainstorming on this topic with my goal being to ta!
>ke whatever I can from the airlines and make it mine. They are obviously doing
something that we as a group are not, and I'd like to learn from their success.
I see light planes crash on tv almost weekly, and can barely remember the last
time an air carrier lost one. In my experience, pilots typically treat each
accident as a unique event and are satisfied once the direct cause is known;
I'm trying to see the bigger picture if possible.
>
>Steve Zicree
>
Steve, I've pondered the same thing. You hit some good reasons why
airlines have a better record. Training ..... they spend 1 week a year
in simulator training handling failures. Airliners have redundant
systems, and better equipment (radar, nav, and autopilot) to reduce
workload. They fly high so the only reason they hit the ground off
airport is when something tragically goes wrong (engine explosions that
take out the hydraulics etc.) and their maintenance oversight is pretty
tough. No, I'm not an airline pilot, and never worked for one. Just
MHO. On the other side of the coin, we weekend drivers .... and some
skip many weekends ... tend to push the weather envelope sometimes to
get somewhere, we run out of gas before the next airport, fly into
towers and power lines ...... just things we shouldn't do. We get in a
hurry and pass on a preflight .... defer maintenance items till the
annual ...... and generally do not approach aviation in a professional
manner. This isn't specifically aimed at any one person .... we've all
seen/heard about 'the accident waiting to happen' and darned if they
don't someday. Having said all that, I've made some mistakes .... that
could have been fatal ..... but I survived in spite of myself. I
learned from those mistakes, and generated my 'Waltersism': And old
pilot is one that survives all his/her stupid mistakes. What we need to
do as a group is slow down and think. We worry about what something
costs .... and maybe being cheap about products that may help means we
don't get all the info .... inflight weather is a biggie. No, I don't
have that either .... if it's nasty, I don't fly. Period. But, we're
getting better at it. A lot of work is being done to make our flying
safer (construction, instruction etc) and to keep us proficient
(biennial) .... which reminds me that some folks get their logbooks
pencil whipped at annual and biennial time ..... and that saves some
bucks. However, the one you cheated is yourself ..... and maybe someday
you'll have a very short amount of time to reflect on your bad habits.
Just log onto http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/AccList.asp?month=9&year=2004 and
see just what happened last month. There's aerobatics at low level, and
botched landings, and first flight accidents ..... they all add up. A
whole lot of accidents are preventable ..... if we fly by the rules.
I've lost a few friends to airplane accidents .... and all but one was
involved with an activity they shouldn't be in. Some famous pilots have
departed this world because they were doing stupid things ...... such a
taking pictures while trying to control the airplane ...... or because
their airplane wasn't airworthy ....... the list goes on, and on ......
so I can't blame the statistics on the untrained, uninformed,
dumb-as-a-rock pilots. We, as pilots, need to step back a little, look
in the mirror, and ask ourselves what we do that may have dire
consequences. If you like flying along at 500' ...... just think where
you'd go if the engine suddenly quit ..... you have neither the time nor
altitude to think about it. Do you tend to fly large patterns because
your bird is so much faster ..... and your finals are turned 2 miles out
.... an engine failure will find you short of the runway. My instructor
when I was getting my private told me 'The most extreme embarrasment
you'll suffer flying is if you have an engine failure in the pattern and
don't make the runway." So his advice, which I still practice is to fly
close in, high patterns ..... because I don't have time to make all the
same mistakes everyone else has. New mistakes are getting harder to
come up with. But, SIGH, we still try.
The bottom line here is that there are two items that cause
airplane-related accidents ..... the airplane and the pilot ...... and
It's seldom the airplanes fault. That only leaves us.
Soapbox being relinquished ......
Linn
do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Bobby,
That is useful. Do you have any RV8 installation pictures?
I can kind of see where one might install it, but I'll be
happy to learn from someone else's experience!
Thanks,
Mickey
>> Does anyone have a plan of source for parking brakes for a RV-8?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>
>This might be useful: http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/pvpv1page.htm
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Listers -
Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade pitot?
Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
Neal
<style>
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margin-bottom:.0001pt;
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</style>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Listers -
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade
pitot?
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
<span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Neal
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes? |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
Thank Bobby . . . I found what I needed on Matco's website . . . I don't
know why I didn't think to look there?!
Thanks again,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Parking Brakes?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
> > To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> > Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:49 (CDT)
> > Subject: RV-List: Parking Brakes?
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen"
> >
> > Does anyone have a plan of source for parking brakes for a RV-8?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bob
>
> This might be useful:
http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/pvpv1page.htm
>
> -------
> Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
> RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
And get one with the deepest throat you can find. Believe me, you won't
regret it!
Chuck Weyant
----- Original Message ----- >
> I would suggest that you purchase a band saw.
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
> 1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built
aircraft.
> Things we see lots of pilots do that is risky.
Not use checklists
> 2. Rate that risk. 1-10
Hard to judge, but could be high depending on item missed. Canopy latch or
fuel level are biggies.
> 3. Rate the reward. 1-10
The reward of not using them seems limited to convenience, and perhaps
looking cool. I sometimes get a look of concern from my pax when I break out
the checklist prior to takeoff, but oh well.
> 4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
Explore options for making checklists easier to use, such as electronic
versions that read the items straight into your ears.
Steve Zicree
=====================================================================
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: falling leaf |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Wow! So if I'm getting this right, the idea is that rather than try to land
conventionally on really hopeless terrain that I could instead use the
falling leaf. Takes some big gonads to go with that strategy, but it could
be a life saver. Never would have occurred to me and I certainly was never
taught this, but I sure do like it. Thanks.
Steve Zicree
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd@vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: falling leaf
> --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry <tedd@vansairforce.org>
>
> Something not mentioned about the falling leaf is that it can be used to
> improve your chances of surviving a forced landing in bad terrain. You
ride
> the falling leaf manoeuvre right to the ground. I'm not sure how well it
would
> work in an RV, but in most light planes it's supposed to give you a rate
of
> decent no worse than a parachute, and in some cases much better. (An
> old-fashioned round parachute, that is.)
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC, Canada
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
My guess is that they have standardized procedures that they live and
die (not literally) by. We in GA tend to be more flexible in our
decision making process. This can be good and bad. "I've made this
approach when it was below minumums 5 times before, I can make it one
more time... Say, what's that mountain goat doing way up here in the
clouds?"
You know what I mean anyway.
Oh and by the way, is this the right place for an argument? (Only
Pythonophiles will understand that.)
steve zicree wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
>I've often wondered, and been asked by many, why the safety record for G.A. is
so much worse than that for commercial carriers.
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: JTAnon@aol.com
Let me add to the speculation with a true story ....
Used to be part of a club with a Cessna 150. Similar history and symptoms:
rough engine, intermittent, responded to reduced power settings, many flights
with no symptoms, tear downs of carb, etc. etc.. End result was an eventual
forced landing. The culprit.....
... an insect building a nest in the vent. Must have been at it for a long
time.
Just one more possibility.
John McDonnell
Message 40
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
>Push the reply button and delete everything above this line, then answer
>these questions and push send.
>
>1. Identify an Industry Risk in flying experimental amatuer built aircraft.
>Things we see lots of pilots do that is risky.
>
Just one? OK, poor maintenance by owner/builder
>2. Rate that risk. 1-10
>
7
>3. Rate the reward. 1-10
>
2
>4. Suggest a mitigating strategy.
>
Unfortunately, you have to be blunt with the individual, and you may end
up spending your time 'retraining' the culprit. However, some people
are immune even to the bluntness.
do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot Options |
--> RV-List message posted by: Derrick Aubuchon <n184da@volcano.net>
I have 400 hrs on my -4 with a Piper style pitot/static blade,,
Since this is the only pitot/static source the airplane has ever know,
I have
no means to compare except to say that the system appears to be as
accurate as any in most
speed ranges.
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA
Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da@volcano.net
On Nov 16, 2004, at 11:42 AM, George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Listers -
>
>
> Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade pitot?
>
> Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
>
>
> Neal
>
>
> <style>
> <!--
> /* Style Definitions */
> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;
> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> font-size:12.0pt;
> font-family:"Times New Roman";}
> a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;
> text-decoration:underline;}
> a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:purple;
> text-decoration:underline;}
> span.EmailStyle17
> {font-family:Arial;
> color:windowtext;}
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> {size:8.5in 11.0in;
> margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
> div.Section1
> {page:Section1;}
> -->
> </style>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Listers -
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Have any of you installed and flown with a
> Piper-style blade
> pitot?
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
>
>
> <span style='font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial'>
>
>
> <span style='font-size:
> 12.0pt'>Neal
>
>
> <span style='font-size:
> 12.0pt'>
>
>
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | off topic.....sorry |
vansairforce <vansairforce@yahoogroups.com>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
sorry about this off topic post but I need some help...
Any MCSE's out there? Please contact me off list...
-Bill
do not archive
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Gary Zilik wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
>Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
>lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
>nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
>ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
>another story.
>
>After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
>after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
>full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
>near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
>That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
>Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
>I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
>Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
>in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
>things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
>pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
>think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
>at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
>mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
>approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
>24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
>and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
>6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
>the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
>now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
>slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
>but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
>the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
>throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
>with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
>north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
>butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
>
>Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
>did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
>the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
>was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
>flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
>fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
>a uneventful flight.
>
>What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
>Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
>9.2:1 pistons.
>
>Denver Jackpot air-race.
>Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
>rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
>rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
>too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
>
>Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
>we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
>Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
>lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
>Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
>down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
>engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
>I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>We went to OSH, no problems.
>
>Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
>dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
>the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
>and uneventful flight home.
>
>I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
>carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
>head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
>others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
>
>Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
>and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
>mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
>
>Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
>Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
>spells.
>
>Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
>something is fixed.
>
>Some observations:
>
>The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
>does not seem to help.
>
>All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
>partial throttle settings.
>
>boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
>
>I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
>
Sticking float. Or float adjusted too high. Also something cought in
the misture shaft.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Any ideas??
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A N99PZ
>700 hours tach time.
>
>
>
>
Message 44
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|
| Subject: | And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
No, Scott, this is Abuse.
Argument is just down the hall.
Neal
Message 45
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|
| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
dfiggins@es.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: <dfiggins@es.com>
>
>
>I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
>weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff?
>
Use a rasp. There are disk and drum rasps in the tool section of the
hardware store.
> How accurate does the shape have to be?
>
Oooh, I dunno!
>I do not have a band saw.
>
Even with a bandsaw, lead is tough to cut. Easier to make a mold, melt
the lead and pour the counterweights.
Linn
>
>Dave (empennage almost done waiting for wings)
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 46
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Options |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
I had a buddy that installed a blade type pitot tube on his RV-8. He
wasn't happy with the accuracy so he replaced it with a standard pitot.
Not RV standard but standard Cessna issue.
George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
>Listers -
>
>
>Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade pitot?
>
>Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
>
>
>Neal
>
>
><style>
><!--
> /* Style Definitions */
> p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
> {margin:0in;
> margin-bottom:.0001pt;
> font-size:12.0pt;
> font-family:"Times New Roman";}
>a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
> {color:blue;
> text-decoration:underline;}
>a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
> {color:purple;
> text-decoration:underline;}
>span.EmailStyle17
> {font-family:Arial;
> color:windowtext;}
>@page Section1
> {size:8.5in 11.0in;
> margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
>div.Section1
> {page:Section1;}
>-->
></style>
>
>
><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
>font-family:Arial'>Listers -
>
>
><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
>font-family:Arial'>
>
>
><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
>font-family:Arial'>Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade
>pitot?
>
>
><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
>font-family:Arial'>Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
>
>
><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
>font-family:Arial'>
>
>
><span style='font-size:
>12.0pt'>Neal
>
>
><span style='font-size:
>12.0pt'>
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
Message 47
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|
| Subject: | Re: Spin Recovery |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
T-37B.
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp"
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky"
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to be
> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >
> > TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >
> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >
> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
>
> I'll guess, T-38.
>
> Dick Sipp
> RV4
> RV10
>
>
> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >
> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >
> > lucky
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >> --> RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >>
> >> In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> >> T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >>
> >> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >>
> >> I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
> >> Face "
> >> ???
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
> > committed to wrote memory. They were
> >
> > TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
> >
> > HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
> > REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
> >
> > WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
> >
> > 1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
> > 2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
> >
> > (HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
> >
> > lucky
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
> >
> > In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
> > T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
> >
> > Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
> >
> > I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold Face
> > "
> > ???
> >
> >
> > e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
T-37B.
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <RSIPP@EARTHLINK.NET>
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <LUCKYMACY@COMCAST.NET>
To: <RV-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spin Recovery
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklist had to be
committed to wrote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
I'll guess, T-38.
Dick Sipp
RV4
RV10
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold
Face "
???
All and only the EPs (emergency procedures) from the checklisthad to be
committed to w
rote memory. They were
TYPED IN BOLD FACE AND ALL CAPS.
HOW'S THIS FOR A BLAST FROM THE PAST? HOW MANY WORDS DOES IT TAKE TO
REMEMBER THIS TUNE?
WHICH PLANE AND PROCEDURE WAS THIS FOR?
1) HAND GRIPS - RAISED.
2) TRIGGERS - SQUEEZED.
(HINT, ONLY EJECTION SEAT I KNOW OF WITH PLURAL GRIPS/TRIGGERS)
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: UFOBUCK@aol.com
In a message dated 11/15/2004 2:52:38 PM Central Standard Time,
T.gummo@verizon.net writes:
Sounds like the Bold Face for the T-37.
I just love it when you war heros talk dirty. What the f--- is " Bold Face
"
???
<B
R>
e Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
onsored entirely through the Contributions
Message 48
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|
| Subject: | Forced Landing. (long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" <akroguy@hotmail.com>
>Last Saturday morning was a great day to fly. We had to dodge the low
>lying thin scudd below us and the Bravo airspace above us. There was a
>nice breeze from the south and at 20"/2400rpm we cruised at 185 kt
>ground speed. What better flying could you have. The trip home was
>another story.
>
>After and east takeoff (flight of 3) from GXY we turned south and chased
>after a newly flying supercharge-Subie-powered RV-7. Prop to 2500 rpm,
>full throttle (24.5" at 6000') and the subie in our sites. As we got
>near the subie we called him up and he cranked his prop to high rpm.
>That slowed our rapid gain on him but we were still closing the range.
>Then my lycoming started running rough.
>
>I shoved the mixture in which helped but it still ran a little rough.
>Leaning even a little caused the engine to roughen up more. Mixture back
>in. I called lead stating I had a rough engine and could not keep up and
>things were getting rougher quickly. I switched tanks, turned the boost
>pump on pulled on carb heat. Nothing worked the engine was slowly dying.
> Lead pointed us to a friends grass strip 6.5 miles SSE but I did not
>think I would make it. (remember that nice south breeze) I was looking
>at the fields and roads just in case. I checked the mags (one EI and one
>mag) and it ran equally bad on both ignitions. Fuel flow was showing
>approximately 14 gph. Now I'm at full throttle 2500rpm and still showing
>24.5" MP with an engine that is now starting to shake the airframe a lot
>and an IAS of 130 mph down from 190 IAS in the subie chase. I'm now high
>6999' one foot below the Bravo airspace and 1500' AGL when I finally see
>the grass strip just south of my position. The engine is hardly running
>now. I chopped what little power I had and put 99PZ into the steepest
>slip she's ever seen. This is were I messed up and I hate to admit it
>but I was too fast for the short strip when I passed over the corn on
>the north end. I pulled up trading airspeed for altitude and pushed the
>throttle in half way. She ran smooth. I came around for another approach
>with a much more manageable airspeed, brushed the standing corn on the
>north with my wheel pants and landed successfully on terra firma. The
>butterflies in my stomach didn't start till I had to do the go-around.
>
>Now some may question my next move. She ran good on the go-around so I
>did a run-up, used all the available strip and swore if I was not off
>the ground by the halfway point (1000')I would abort the takeoff. FTG
>was 19.5 nautical from where I was with another dirt strip 10 south. I
>flew at 18" 2500 rpm all the way back without any problems. A little
>fast on the landing with the 16 kt crosswind but other than that it was
>a uneventful flight.
>
>What could be wrong with 99PZ? Some history:
>
>Oh the engine is a Aerosport O-360-A1A, carburated swinging a Hartzell.
>9.2:1 pistons.
>
>Denver Jackpot air-race.
>Soon after departing Rock Springs WYO at low level full throttle 2600
>rpm (97 OAT) I looked at my wife and asked her if the engine seemed
>rough? It was hard to tell in the bumpy thermal air. I thought I leaned
>too much so I pushed the red knob in and re-leaned and all was well.
>
>Jackpot to Denver via Bendover Utah. 10000 feet full throttle 2400 rpm
>we just rounded the restricted airspace and turned west towards
>Wendover. As we crossed the ridge the engine again ran rough, like too
>lean. Boost pump on, switch tanks and push the red knob in again.
>Smoothed right out and leaned normally after that. A quick low level run
>down the salt flats (what fun) and then over the rockpile to Denver. The
>engine ran fine the rest of the way home.
>
>I did a 100 hour on the engine and found nothing out of the ordinary.
>
>We went to OSH, no problems.
>
>Labor day saw us to East Texas to visit dad. On the way back while
>dodging T-storms the problem again revisited. I checked everything but
>the red knob fixed it again. We could lean normally after that and had
>and uneventful flight home.
>
>I checked fuel filters, boost pump flow from both tanks, checked the
>carb screen again and replace the intake tube gaskets on the cylinder
>head on two cylinders cause the bolts seemed only hand tight. the two
>others were fine. Checked the primer ports, lines and valve. no leaks.
>
>Denver to IA. On upwind leaving the pattern at FTG the engine ran rough
>and would not smooth out. Even the red knob did not help. Aborted
>mission. Seemed to run smooth as soon as I reduced throttle to land.
>
>Did valve wobble check. Nothing found.
>
>Many breakfast flights east and west over the rockpile with no rough
>spells.
>
>Then Saturdays forced landing. 99PZ is officially grounded until
>something is fixed.
>
>Some observations:
>
>The red knob seems to be directly connected to the problem but lately
>does not seem to help.
>
>All instances were at full throttle. Seems, I say seems, to run good at
>partial throttle settings.
>
>boost pump, tanks carb heat or ignition source makes no change.
>
>I'm thinking carburetor vent, sticking float or something.
>
>Any ideas??
>
>Gary Zilik
>RV-6A N99PZ
>700 hours tach time.
Holey moley, Gary!! Don't know if you recall, but I had a forced landing
just after my phase one test period in my -8 back in 2000. Maybe you could
check the archives for my story. Basically, engine went totally rich, would
not lean out, and even filled the FAB box with fuel. Luckily had an airport
under me at the time and, like you, slipped a loooong way down from around
10k' to airport elevation at maybe 6k'. Pulled carb apart, and found
nothing obvious except for some red "fuel resistant" (NOT!!!) rtv residue.
It's the only culprit that I and the A&P airport attendant helping me could
surmise. We flushed everything out thoroughly, removed every trace of that
sealant that some knucklehead used on the finger strainer nut threads (that
would be me) and it's been fine ever since. I suspect that something either
fouled the carb float operation or there is wear beyond limits in the float
mechanism in general. If all the strainers are clear, no chunks of sealant
or other debris floating around in the tanks, then a carb kit would be my
next move.
Man, I'm relieved you're OK and the plane is safe and sound.
As in my experience, it will take some time to rebuild the trust in your
airplane. It has let you down so take the time and necessary actions to get
back on speaking terms.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
Message 49
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|
| Subject: | Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of George Neal E
Capt AU/PC
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lead counter weights
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
--> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Dave -
I filed and filed and filed and whittled and filed, all the while
muttering obscenities because the old style seems so much simpler...
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG (tanks)
RV-8 N998GM (emp)
>I had a hell of a time shaping the elevator counterweights this past
weekend, is there some easy trick to cut this stuff? How accurate does
the shape have to be?<
A vixen file works pretty well for minor reshaping. A hacksaw with a
blade not too fine can also be used.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Message 50
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|
| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
----- Original Message -----
> and can barely remember the last time an air carrier lost one.
Sept 11, 01. Before that was the AA MD-80 in the thunderstorm in Little
Rock. That is of the major US carriers. There were two commuter crashes
that I'm aware of since. (One was weight and Balance... the other is not
determined)
>>
> They fly high so the only reason they hit the ground off
> airport is when something tragically goes wrong (engine explosions that
> take out the hydraulics etc.)
Respectfully, no. CFIT (Controlled Flight into Terrain) is the highest
threat for accidents. The most glaring in recent years was the AA 767 in
Cali, Columbia. To that end, all of our aircraft (don't know about other
airlines) have EGPWS (Enhanced Ground-Prox). It squawks when it thinks you
are headed toward terrain and has a color-coded terrain map on the EHSI.
Also, going into an airport at night or in weather you are REQUIRED to have
a terrain map out for that field and encouraged to use other means for
positional awareness.
One of the main reasons that airlines have such a good safety record is that
we have very strict SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures). They specify
EVERYTHING. For example... We have "sterile cockpit" below 18,000 feet. No
talking, no eating or drinking. Nothing outside checklists and clearing is
permitted. The SOP's specify when the PF (pilot flying) must have his feet
on the rudders and his hands guarding the controls, even if he is using
auto-flight. There are "stabilized approach criteria". At 500 ft, VMC, 100
ft, IMC, the plane MUST be on glidepath, on speed (+10/ -0) fully configured
with gear and landing flaps, checklists complete, and the engines spooled
up. That is the limit... the "target" is 500 ft above that. Then factor in
the FAR's. We have to comply with Part 121, which in most instances is more
restrictive. And the list goes on and on.
The captain I just flew with flies a lot in competitive aerobatics. We were
discussing safety, because we just lost a local 767 F/O to an accident in an
airshow. My captain was saying that he thinks one of the greatest safety
benefits we have is that there are two of us. And we know that one is
always watching the other. Could be. I'm going to think on that one.
But one thing I believe. If you fly your RV with the same, strict attention
to details and rules that the Part 121 carriers do, the accident rate surely
has to go down.
Fly safe.
Keith Hughes
Denver
do not archive
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: >Re: Forced Landing (Long) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
My RV-4 with Lyc. O-320 E2G gave me the same pucker-upper a few times, with
nothing found as the cause. Later I was changing oil for a fly-in trip and
found metal(Magnet like a porkupine) in the screen.
Engine tear-down showed one intake cam lobe worn down about 1/8". The
engine had been stored for several years and probably got a spot of rust on the
cam or lifter. After a major o'haul,with new cam & lifters, it never happened
again.
You might check the travel on the valve train to check for this. That can
be done by just removing valve rocker covers. There were two intake lobes on
my cam,each operates valves for two cylinders.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
I thought you might say, "I told you once before."
Okay, down the hall next to the Ministry of silly walks.
please do not archive
George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
>No, Scott, this is Abuse.
>Argument is just down the hall.
>Neal
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Wasn't there also one off the east coast a week or so after 9-11? Seems I
remember a composite tailfin departure.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: And now for something completely different
> --> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > and can barely remember the last time an air carrier lost one.
>
> Sept 11, 01. Before that was the AA MD-80 in the thunderstorm in Little
> Rock. That is of the major US carriers. There were two commuter crashes
> that I'm aware of since. (One was weight and Balance... the other is not
> determined)
Message 54
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Absolutely right. I forgot.
American Airbus A-300 out of JFK. Composite tail combined with very little
rudder feedback. The F/O applied a full-deflection rudder reversal in
response to wake turb from a 747.
Thanks for the brain jog.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> Wasn't there also one off the east coast a week or so after 9-11? Seems I
> remember a composite tailfin departure.
>
> Steve Zicree
do not archive
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Has anyone tried the plumber's lead which comes in long hair-like strands?
Just tamp it in with a wood stick and light weight hammer. When the balance
arm is filled, pour in a little epoxy to stake it to the sides of the
balance arm cavity.
Not flying yet ... just my 2 worth ...
Jerry 7a
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/04 3:42:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
> Even with a bandsaw, lead is tough to cut. Easier to make a mold, melt
> the lead and pour the counterweights.
> Linn
Dave,
If you decide to make your own weights here is some free advice. Worth what
you paid for it!
I have poured lead for weights back in my auto racing days. Found lead wheel
weights at tire dealers. Of course, you can melt down Van's weights too.
Make the mold out of sheet aluminum. Smoke the aluminum with a homemade
kerosene candle, or an acetylene torch set rich. A small glass bottle with a simple
rag wick will smoke like crazy when you light it -- do it outdoors! This
keeps the lead from sticking and makes a nice smooth surface. Insulate the mold
with fiberglass to keep the lead all molten until you're done pouring. Between
pours, cover the mold to keep the heat in. When it is all poured, uncover
and it will freeze into one nice solid piece. Not like the weights supplied
with the kit.
BTW remember to put the trim motor in while you're doing the balance job (if
you have electric trim). Preferably, balance the elevators separately since
the one with the trim tab will be heavier. I didn't do this, both my elevators
have about the same weight. I called Van's. As usual, they said it is not
that critical.
Make the weights a little too heavy to allow for paint.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying with yuckky delaminating weights)
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Pitot Options |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Describe "leading edge tube"
Mark do not archive
Message 58
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| Subject: | Avionics repairs |
--> RV-List message posted by: "R.A.S" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
Hi,
Has anyone any experience with Aviation Plus Inc of Miami,Fla?
Got a rather hefty quoation for inspection of two gyro's and a turn
coordinator. $1645 seems a bit steep for inspection of these three
instrum,ents, removed from R44 after a ground rollover, not hard impact
damage.
Any other suggestions to a 'more' reputable avionics shop in Fla.
thanks,
marcel
Message 59
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| Subject: | Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
I cut the weight to the dimensions on the drawing, sounds like this should
not be done until you are ready to balance the elevators to get it right.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lead counter weights
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/04 3:42:35 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
> Even with a bandsaw, lead is tough to cut. Easier to make a mold,
> melt the lead and pour the counterweights.
> Linn
Dave,
If you decide to make your own weights here is some free advice. Worth what
you paid for it!
I have poured lead for weights back in my auto racing days. Found lead
wheel weights at tire dealers. Of course, you can melt down Van's weights
too.
Make the mold out of sheet aluminum. Smoke the aluminum with a homemade
kerosene candle, or an acetylene torch set rich. A small glass bottle with
a simple rag wick will smoke like crazy when you light it -- do it outdoors!
This keeps the lead from sticking and makes a nice smooth surface. Insulate
the mold with fiberglass to keep the lead all molten until you're done
pouring. Between pours, cover the mold to keep the heat in. When it is all
poured, uncover and it will freeze into one nice solid piece. Not like the
weights supplied with the kit.
BTW remember to put the trim motor in while you're doing the balance job (if
you have electric trim). Preferably, balance the elevators separately since
the one with the trim tab will be heavier. I didn't do this, both my
elevators have about the same weight. I called Van's. As usual, they said
it is not that critical.
Make the weights a little too heavy to allow for paint.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying with yuckky delaminating weights)
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 60
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|
| Subject: | Re: Pitot Options |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
It is my belief that if installed back around the inspection plate on
the wing bottom, the Piper blades will give excellent airspeed
readings. It is ruggeder than Van's but also heavier. However the
built in static source on these requires some tweaking to eliminate
position errors.
I have flown with a Piper style blade on my RV-6A for seven years,
1,400 hours. It is very accurate. I like it, but it is unheated. I
took the precaution of installing the standard Van's static ports on my
RV-6A, and plumbed both static lines to the panel. I flipped a coin
and tested with the Piper pitot, using the Van's fuselage static line.
As near as I have been able to tell, the cruise IAS is essentially CAS
with no correction. At stall the IAS is that shown by Van.
Since this appeared to be perfection, I have never got around to
testing using the static line from the Piper blade. Someday I should.
I am a little dubious of it since I have noted different angles on the
bottom of the blade for different Pipers!
Those I knew who used the Piper blade static source have reported
airspeed errors on the optimistic side, IE stall speed indicating
lower than actual, and cruise speed indicating higher than actual.
Hope this helps in your deliberations
Denis
On Nov 16, 2004, at 12:42 PM, George Neal E Capt AU/PC wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC
> <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
>
> Listers -
>
>
> Have any of you installed and flown with a Piper-style blade pitot?
>
> Or a leading edge tube, as found on the AT-6?
>
>
> Neal
>
Message 61
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| Subject: | Re: Lead counter weights |
--> RV-List message posted by: <szicree@adelphia.net>
> I found that the local shotgun supply store had lots of cool stuff for working
with molten lead including a sinister looking little cauldron that I was able
to use on my stove. If you pour in your kitchen and use a cookie sheet to catch
the overflow, make sure you put some plywood or something between it and the
vinyl kitchen floor (guess how I know)
> From: Hopperdhh@aol.com
> Date: 2004/11/16 Tue PM 06:52:02 EST
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Lead counter weights
>
>
Message 62
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
In a message dated 11/16/2004 3:00:01 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> RV-List: And now for something completely different
Jiminy Christmas!
Steve gets the award this week for starting up a new thread which will use
oodles of bandwidth and cause everyone to offer his/her two cents... and the
resulting noise will be nearly impossible to sort out.
Fundamentally a good question to ask oneself, but impossible to hash out to
everyones' satisfaction. I guess I might as well start...
Why are the airlines crashing less than G.A. ?
1) Standardized and very complete initial training and recurrent training
including in-depth checkrides every 6 months that have one's job on the line.
2) Standardized and very strict procedures with little room for 'fun' (i.e.
ain't common to have pros dying from stall/spin accidents after buzzing the
girlfriends house)
3) Extremely higher overall levels of experience and recency of experience
-pilots having come up through the ranks doing thousands of hours of
time-building and learning through flying military and/or G.A., including a lot
of
checkrides along the way. (many of the ones who didn't make it through this phase
helped drive up G.A. accident stats). This weeds out many who either don't have
the desire, the basic skills, or good decision-making ability -all of which
make good pilots.
4) A very efficient apprentice program of first being a first officer
(co-pilot) and then graduating to captain after accruing experience on the job,
usually after watching many different captains with many different styles.
Notice I didn't say better airplanes. The plane is rarely the problem in a
crash.
Let me finish by paraphrasing what Ernest K. Gann said in 'Fate is the
Hunter' -"nobody is immune" -time and chance happen to all men (and pilots).
Everyone be careful out there! (especially me).
do not archive
Scott
N4ZW
Message 63
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|
| Subject: | finishing up sequence of events? Part II |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
OK, it's been a few months since this thread made its rounds.
I have all the FWF stuff.
I have the Engine mounted. I have the starter, governor, and exhaust stacks mounted.
I don't have any of the sensors installed but have them.
What's the smartest way to finish up between baffling, cowl, engine related sensors,
panel and top skin, baggage door?
I'm thinking that since some of the sensors will have to be removed to do the baffling
work then I should probably stop what I'm doing as far as hanging more
stuff on the engine, do the cowl and then the baffle then pick back up. OL,
I don't have the prop yet but that shouldn't be a big deal, right?
What say you folks past this stage?
Thanks,
Lucky
do not archive
OK, it's been a few months since this thread made its rounds.
I have all the FWF stuff.
I have the Engine mounted. I have the starter, governor, and exhaust stacks mounted.
I don't have any of the sensors installed but have them.
What's the smartest way to finish up between baffling, cowl, engine related sensors,
panel and top skin, baggage door?
I'm thinking that since some of the sensors will have to be removed to do the baffling
work then I should probably stop what I'm doing as far as hanging more
stuff on the engine, do the cowland then the baffle then pick back up. OL, I
don't have the prop yet but that shouldn't be a big deal, right?
What say you folks past this stage?
Thanks,
Lucky
do not archive
Message 64
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| Subject: | Re: Avionics repairs |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
For inspection only???
If you're talking about vacuum gyros, you can buy NEW instruments for
that much!
Dave
do not archive
R.A.S wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "R.A.S" <deruiteraircraftservices@btinternet.com>
>
>Hi,
>
>Has anyone any experience with Aviation Plus Inc of Miami,Fla?
>Got a rather hefty quoation for inspection of two gyro's and a turn
>coordinator. $1645 seems a bit steep for inspection of these three
>instrum,ents, removed from R44 after a ground rollover, not hard impact
>damage.
>
>Any other suggestions to a 'more' reputable avionics shop in Fla.
>
>thanks,
>
>marcel
>
>
>
>
Message 65
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|
| Subject: | Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet metal
and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the head
of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite lock
the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock so
hard?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 66
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|
| Subject: | And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo@tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: And now for something completely different
--> RV-List message posted by: "rv6tc" <rv6tc@myawai.com>
Absolutely right. I forgot.
American Airbus A-300 out of JFK. Composite tail combined with very
little
rudder feedback. The F/O applied a full-deflection rudder reversal in
response to wake turb from a 747.
Thanks for the brain jog.
Keith
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
>
> Wasn't there also one off the east coast a week or so after 9-11?
> Seems I remember a composite tailfin departure.
>
> Steve Zicree
do not archive
Steve/Keith: One interesting thing about the A-300 event is that NACA
figured out back in the early 40's that with heavy aircraft, about four
rudder reversals were all that were needed to remove the vertical fin.
Or maybe it was 3 or 5, but the point was that it was comparitively few.
Each successive overshoot resulted in increasing loads until one of them
resulted in failure. I wonder if designers and pilot training
organizations had lost track of that one.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
_
Message 67
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| Subject: | Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
Put a little boe-lube, soap, or wax on the threads of the screw and it'll be
easier.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Subject: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
> locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet
> metal
> and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the head
> of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
> keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite
> lock
> the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock
> so
> hard?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
>
Message 68
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Puckett" <rv8er@myawai.com>
Along with all the previously stated influential factors in GA accident
rates. Has anyone ever seen data comparing accident rates between GA ops
in owner flown A/C vs. having most of your flying in different rental
A/C on a regular basis?
I've often suspected that accident rates would be lower for GA ops in
which the pilot operates the same particular A/C on a regular basis. I
however, have never seen any real data to support that suspicion.
One of the many reasons I chose to build and maintain my own aircraft
was that suspicion that being intimately familiar with the particular
aircraft you fly could only help.
Just more food for thought,
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
RV-8 80081 slooooow build
Message 69
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|
| Subject: | Re: Parking Brakes? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
>
>Hi Bobby,
>
>That is useful. Do you have any RV8 installation pictures?
>I can kind of see where one might install it, but I'll be
>happy to learn from someone else's experience!
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
Sorry just RV7A pictures :-)
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 70
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| Subject: | Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
I have and they are still pretty tight. Seems kind of defeating the purpose
also to make a self locking nut so tight that you have to lubricate it to
make it less self locking. I have also tried to un-oval them in a vise and
that works when you get it just right.
I do have some that are not quite as squashed into the oval shape that work
great, but I have no idea where they came from. I imagine I just need to
get the right brand, but none of them have a manufacturer written on them.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
Subject: Re: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
Put a little boe-lube, soap, or wax on the threads of the screw and it'll be
easier.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Subject: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
> locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet
> metal
> and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the head
> of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
> keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite
> lock
> the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock
> so
> hard?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
Message 71
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| Subject: | Re: And now for something completely different |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Steve,
You touched on one of the most important factors; training.
Part 121 and most corporate aviation depts. undergo extensive simulator
training every 6 months to include aircraft malfunctions and real world
weather scenarios that caused accidents.
Another factor, written standardized procedures used by all pilots in the
organization whether it is United Airlines or USAF. Two pilots on a two
pilot crew can fly with each other, never having met before, and know
exactly what the other is going to do. Two pilots practicing good cockpit
resource management continually back each other up, resolve confusion and
verify. Example: when given an altitude change, the captain after hearing
the copilot's readback sets the altitude selector pointing at it and
repeating the altitude. Cockpit checklists are memorized flow patterns.
After accomplishing a flow, the other pilot reads the checklist while the
first pilot verifies by his response and visual check that all items were
completed.
Many safety organizations recommend these principals even for single pilot
operations, I.E. memorize standard cockpit checklist flows backed up by a
written checklist, procedural flows such as preparation for an approach
whereby you brief yourself on the approach parameters.
Professional flying organizations whether they be military or civilian weed
out those who for whatever reason, are not suited for the profession. There
are a few who even though they have good stick & rudder skills are just not
psychologically suited for the tasks. An ego that cannot accept a
correction or input from others has no place in today's aviation
environment.
Finally, IMHO, the pros are not tempted to perform impromptu low passes,
push the airplane to it's limits, exceed theirs or there company's weather
and other ops limits, in short they operate to a written conservative
standard.
Have I ever violated these principals in my RV, yup. But when I do I
resolve not to be tempted again and it happens less and less often and never
when someone else is in the airplane with me.
In summary, don't do nothin dumb.
Regards
Dick Sipp "Frogman"
Team RV Formation Demonstration Team
RV4 600 hours
RV10 #65
ATP, GV, Fokker 70, Falcon 900 Corporate Training & Standards
Retired USAF C130, B-52, KC-135
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: And now for something completely different
Message 72
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| Subject: | Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Hi Brian,
It takes a somewhat deft touch to run a tap part way through them, but done
right some of the self locking feature can be removed from these little
screw ruining nut plates.
If the tapping process eliminates the self locking feature? When installing
the screws an application of Fuel Lube or something similar will protect
against corrosion as well as make the screws somewhat less likely to back
out.
My opinion;
In most applications these units are not all that reliant on the self
locking feature anyway.
Keep on building,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I have and they are still pretty tight. Seems kind of defeating the
> purpose
> also to make a self locking nut so tight that you have to lubricate it to
> make it less self locking. I have also tried to un-oval them in a vise
> and
> that works when you get it just right.
>
> I do have some that are not quite as squashed into the oval shape that
> work
> great, but I have no idea where they came from. I imagine I just need to
> get the right brand, but none of them have a manufacturer written on them.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
>
Message 73
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| Subject: | Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "steve zicree" <szicree@adelphia.net>
Brian,
I can definitely say that the #6 platenuts that were included in my recently
received finishing kit are a bit looser than others I've had. You might give
Van's a call.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> I have and they are still pretty tight. Seems kind of defeating the
purpose
> also to make a self locking nut so tight that you have to lubricate it to
> make it less self locking. I have also tried to un-oval them in a vise
and
> that works when you get it just right.
>
> I do have some that are not quite as squashed into the oval shape that
work
> great, but I have no idea where they came from. I imagine I just need to
> get the right brand, but none of them have a manufacturer written on them.
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
> Put a little boe-lube, soap, or wax on the threads of the screw and it'll
be
> easier.
>
> KB
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Not quite so self locking nut plates
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
> >
> > The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
> > locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet
> > metal
> > and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the
head
> > of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
> > keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite
> > lock
> > the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock
> > so
> > hard?
> >
> > Brian Kraut
> > Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> > www.engalt.com
> >
> >
>
>
Message 74
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| Subject: | Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
Hi Brian,
I bought some torx (6-lobe) screws from http://www.microfasteners.com/
and they are excellent. Do a search for "lobe". Never a problem
with getting a screw into or out of a tight situation.
Mickey
>The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
>locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet metal
>and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the head
>of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
>keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite lock
>the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock so
>hard?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
Message 75
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| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Not quite so self locking nut plates |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" <greg@itmack.com>
I use candle wax on the screws and they go in like a dream.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
> The brand of K1000 anchor nuts that Aircraft Spruce stocks take the self
> locking a little to the extreme when you are using them on thin sheet
metal
> and with 6-32 screws. It is very hard sometimes to not strip out the head
> of the screw when you can't put a lot of pressure on the screw driver to
> keep from bending the metal. I have seen some others that don't quite
lock
> the screw as hard. Does anyone know who stocks the ones that don't lock
so
> hard?
>
> Brian Kraut
> Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
> www.engalt.com
>
>
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