---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/05/04: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:17 AM - Fire Suppression System (Glenn Brasch) 2. 06:23 AM - Re: [RV-8] First Flight (Charles Rowbotham) 3. 08:10 AM - painted parts against canopy? (BillRVSIX@aol.com) 4. 08:21 AM - Re: air oil separator - No Steel Wool Needed (DonEavesRV6) 5. 08:57 AM - Re:(RV-8)First Flight (Oldsfolks@aol.com) 6. 10:35 AM - Cowl skin screw spacing (Randy Lervold) 7. 10:42 AM - Re: Rv-List Power Required (Gordon or Marge Comfort) 8. 12:39 PM - Air/oil separator (Wheeler North) 9. 01:43 PM - Re: Air/oil separator (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 10. 01:52 PM - Re: Rv-List Power Required (Skylor Piper) 11. 01:56 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (David Carter) 12. 02:16 PM - Cold/Lean Cylinders (Fred Stucklen) 13. 02:52 PM - Rv-List Power Required (smoothweasel@juno.com) 14. 02:55 PM - Re: Air/oil separator (linn walters) 15. 03:08 PM - Fw: Molex connectors (H.Ivan Haecker) 16. 03:24 PM - Re: Fw: Molex connectors (linn walters) 17. 03:40 PM - Re:Cold/Lean Cylinders (Martin Hone) 18. 03:46 PM - Re: Fw: Molex connectors (Dave Bristol) 19. 04:53 PM - Re: [Bulk] Rv-List Power Required (Tracy Crook) 20. 04:58 PM - Re: Fw: Molex connectors (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 21. 05:58 PM - Prop Pitch & MP (Martin Hone) 22. 06:26 PM - Re: Fw: Molex connectors (Vanremog@aol.com) 23. 07:16 PM - Re: Cold/Lean Cylinders (Alex Peterson) 24. 09:34 PM - Re: Cowl skin screw spacing (Christopher Dahl) 25. 09:48 PM - Re: Fw: Molex connectors (H.Ivan Haecker) 26. 10:21 PM - Re: RV-List "Molex" connectors (Vanremog@aol.com) 27. 11:14 PM - Power Required (Mickey Coggins) 28. 11:37 PM - OFF topic...sorta (JOHN STARN) 29. 11:37 PM - Re: Power Required (JOHN STARN) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:48 AM PST US From: Glenn Brasch Subject: RV-List: Fire Suppression System --> RV-List message posted by: Glenn Brasch Has anyone installed a fire suppression system/bottle, and if so what brand? I searched the archives and saw some arguments pro and con, but that was about it. A friend has a system in a Glasair and it looks like cheap insurance to me. Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:03 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RV-List: RE: [RV-8] First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Jim, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Jim Daniels >Reply-To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com >To: RV-8@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [RV-8] First Flight >Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2004 18:32:57 -0700 > > >Finally! RV8 N204X made its first flight this morning. Totally >uneventful (as I had hoped it would be) with .7 on the clock and a >perfect landing to boot. I stayed close, circling the field at 9000' >(3K AGL) getting a feel for the airplane. After about 30 minutes, I >did some slow flight and then descended for a landing. Just a couple >minor items - CHT1 high (removed the baffle air block for front >cylinders), oil temp a little low (165) and 1/2 ball off in yaw (leave >for later). > > >Jim Daniels >81540 >Albuquerque, NM >http://home.comcast.net/~jwdanie/ > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:10:27 AM PST US From: BillRVSIX@aol.com Subject: RV-List: painted parts against canopy? --> RV-List message posted by: BillRVSIX@aol.com Hello just wondering if I have to be careful with the type of paint I use to paint the parts (Skirts) that attach to the canopy. "paint against canopy." Thanks Bill ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:21:33 AM PST US From: "DonEavesRV6" Subject: Re: RV-List: air oil separator - No Steel Wool Needed --> RV-List message posted by: "DonEavesRV6" I've been flying for 250+- hours with the Aircraft Spruce P/N 10570 Air Oil Separator - And it has worked very well- Without the steel wool - If you primarily want to keep the belly clean - Add a piece of steel conduit / pipe to the overflow air end of the above air oil separator - Attach it to an exhaust pipe - let the end stick into the exhaust opening - Any oil that exits will be vaporized. - Works for me and several others I know - My problem with steel wool is the possibility that a piece may get into the engine - If you don't have the room for this separator or the money for the expensive one - Just use the conduit method - That also works - You just have to add oil between oil changes - Additionally - If you don't fly long legs keep the oil level On a 0320 / 0360 between 5 - 6 Qts. Don Eaves RV6 Flying 250-+ Hours A&P, Technical Counselor, RV Builders Assistant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wheeler North" Subject: RV-List: air oil separator > --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > > You mention the "bilinski mod" to an ACS air/oil separator. > > > try http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/hboilbreather.php > > cut 2.5" hole in front or back face, fill with Stainless Steel Pot > scrubbers(do not use any plastic or corrodeable wools). > > http://sneakykitchen.com/fullerbrush/fuller_products/kitchen.htm > or > http://products3.3m.com/catalog/us/en001/food_beverage/food_service/node_GSX > 8YGLK7Pgs/root_GST1T4S9TCgv/vroot_GS56SL819Pge/bgel_GSNMFHCK49bl/gvel_GS2JDJ > L946gl/theme_us_foodservices_3_0/command_AbcPageHandler/output_html > > repatch link > > Use fine mesh SS screen on bottom oil return outlet. > > Proseal back together, pop rivet as needed, read previous post about > outlet > and inlet tube lengths and position. If you get one without some overlap > I'd > send it back. > > So far no drops of oil on ground or belly or the airplane's belly. And I > been chasing a lot of upside down white puffy hazy areas the last few > days. > > W > > PS, this also means I no longer have to wash my belly with avgas, that's a > relief... my armpits were really gettin' scratchy and dry. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:57:45 AM PST US From: Oldsfolks@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:(RV-8)First Flight --> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com Congratulations Jim. What a great early Christmas present !! Hope you enjoy it as much as we have enjoyed our two RV's. Keep it flying all you can, and wishes for a Merry Christmas. do not archive Bob n' Lu Olds RV-4 Charleston,Arkansas ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:06 AM PST US From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: RV-List: Cowl skin screw spacing --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" RV-3/4 builders: anyone remember what spacing they used on the screws that hold the top forward fuselage cowl skin to the main longerons? RV-3 and -4 plans both call for 2.5" spacing yet when I scrutinize pictures I have of finished planes it looks like many builder's used tighter spacing. Tighter space could yield increased buckling with the #8 screw dimples. Randy Lervold www.rv-3.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:15 AM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" Subject: RE: RV-List: Rv-List Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" Subject: RV-List: Rv-List Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com Hey is there anyone on here that can give me an estimated HP that would be required to make a Harmon Rocket go 220knots TAS at say 22000ft. I have been doing some expensive dreaming. I wanna go faster and higher but I don't want the complications of a Turbo system. I have some ideas bur I don't know how much power I will need at this ALT. Weasel RV-4 Brooksville Ms Smoothweasel: Your question has piqued my curiosity. Piper claimed a similar motive when they built the Comanche 400. The idea was to improve altitude performance without the complexity of turbocharging. The late Dick Schreder described the result as "flying like a F6F with a full bomb load". The analysis of speed, power and altitude looks good to me as Kevin and others know their business. I would add that experimental evidence says that with normally aspirated engines the power decreases more rapidly than does the drag with increasing altitude. If Kevin's figures are in the ballpark, then probably more that 300hp, perhaps as much as 350 sea level hp might be required. What sort of engine do you envision, rotary perhaps? Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:57 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: Air/oil separator --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Well, to get into my thinking on the subject a little more... One concern was the SS inside aluminum with moisture is a galvanic situation but I decided it probably isn't one that is too great given the heating it gets every flight. I did choose to make this with out any gaskets, using proseal and pop rivets with the intent in mind of opening it after a year or so and see what's what. The original one had some small water/oil goop in it, but it was not too bad after 800 hours of use. Also the screen area is about 3 square inches which is about 144 times the area of the oil drain outlet. One concern I had was what happens on a very cold day prior to this thing warming up, and I finally decided it would be warming up fairly fast given that it gets most of its heat from the blowby. But that is the reason I liked the idea of a PRD installed, and I may make a version II out of the old one I removed. The other question I have yet to answer is how to deal with the moisture that this unit collects. It would be nice to know how much comes from the blowby by products and how much is drawn back in via case cooling after shut down. It would also be neat if there was a way for it to dry the air as it is drawn back into the engine. Its interesting how much manufacturing effort there is to preoil an engine, but little to no effort at preventing internal moisture during cool down, all in spite of the fact that the manufacturer's all contend that corrosion is the number one cause of shortened engine life. W ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:36 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Air/oil separator --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 12/05/2004 2:40:34 PM Central Standard Time, wnorth@sdccd.cc.ca.us writes: The other question I have yet to answer is how to deal with the moisture that this unit collects. It would be nice to know how much comes from the blowby by products and how much is drawn back in via case cooling after shut down. It would also be neat if there was a way for it to dry the air as it is drawn back into the engine. >>> Hi Wheeler- Seems all the moisture gets evaporated out and only oil stays in the separator. On mine I've got a removable gasketed cover attached with screws for inspection and cleaning, but so far the scrubbers just get oily. The drain does NOT go back to the sump, but to a separate hose with a petcock on the bottom of it that gets drained each oil change. The most I've drained is maybe 6 ounces, which was after some particularly bad aileron rolls (neg-G) and maybe 3 times the amout normally seen. Purty darn clean belly, too! I'll send ya some fotos... From The PossumWorks Mark ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:52:13 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=piTUFXsd1UuAMZMrGEmwVHQ8uC7aBD6ripx1C+wWvye5IPvhFgzwQjsmvpvEzRvl+dLaVUxRGY813wByjNPVCRzkfGlsMxBtYyWIZ+1dhaI6OPi89WztZZIoGjf6OI1eqWTYafHa6GPh5Eunj0vzzSvRxU3EcfX54ap+UTXffYU= ; From: Skylor Piper Subject: RE: RV-List: Rv-List Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper Power vs manifold pressure or altitude is a linear relationship. At 22,000' the normally aspirated manifold pressure would be less than 13", thus a normally aspirated engine would produce slightly less than 50% power (or right around that, given the increase in efficiency vs altitude). Many of the IO-540's that people are having built for the Rockets produce well over 300 hp at Sea Level, actually around 330 or so. With that kind of power, 220 KTAS at 22,000 feet would probably be achievable, or you would at least get very close to those numbers. Skylor RV-8 QB Under Construction --- Gordon or Marge Comfort wrote: > I would add that > experimental evidence says that with normally > aspirated engines the > power decreases more rapidly than does the drag with > increasing > altitude. If Kevin's figures are in the ballpark, > then probably more > that 300hp, perhaps as much as 350 sea level hp > might be required. What > sort of engine do you envision, rotary perhaps? > > Gordon Comfort > N363GC __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:23 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" I've attached 3 articles saved off of www.H3R.com website (1.800.249.4289), plus 3 e-mails with initial ideas on "how to mount". These will be stripped off by the RV-list so sending direct to you, Glenn. Anyone else, contact me direct & I'll fwd this e-mail to you with attachments. I'm planning on a Halon system in my RV-6. David Carter Nederland, Texas Canopy frame ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Brasch" Subject: RV-List: Fire Suppression System > --> RV-List message posted by: Glenn Brasch > > Has anyone installed a fire suppression system/bottle, and if so what > brand? I searched the archives and saw some arguments pro and con, but > that was about it. A friend has a system in a Glasair and it looks like > cheap insurance to me. Thanks in advance. Glenn in Arizona -9A fuselage. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:52 PM PST US From: "Fred Stucklen" Subject: RV-List: Cold/Lean Cylinders --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" Listers, I'm having a problem with #3  cylinders running cold & lean while flying in cold air. The engine is a carbureted O-320-D1A with 9:1 compression pistons with a fixed pitch prop, and Van's standard air box, on an RV-6A. The problem seems to occurs when the outside air temp is cold (below 32*F) AND when I'm at a PARTIAL throttle setting (2350 RPM). As soon as I begin to lean the fuel under these conditions, #3 & #4 cylinder EGT's begin to FALL. At the same time #1 & #2 cylinders EGT's begin to rise (as expected). Warm or Hot air operations seem to cause the same problem, but they are not as pronounce: The #3 & #4 EGT's first rise, then fall as the mixture is leaned, but they are the first to run lean at the partial throttle condition. Cold air seems to cause these cylinders to run lean earlier in the leaning process (If they are already running leaner than #1 & #2 cylinders, then they would lean FIRST, or run LEANER in colder air prior to the leaning process, and actually run leaner as the fuel supply is limited). This would indicate that #3 & #4 cylinders are running leaner in cold air.. And as these cylinders EGT falls, so does their CHT's. I've seen # 4 cylinder (the coldest) fall BELOW 200*F with an outside air temp of 15*F, resulting in a rough running engine. Under these outside air conditions, I MUST run at full rich, and full throttle, in order to keep the #3 & #4 CHT's above 200 *F. The problem doesn't exist at full throttle conditions (while running in cold air). All CHT's & EGT's are within reason: within 25* for CHT's & within 100* for EGT's. It's only when I come off of a full throttle condition that I am having this problem. Flying at 11,000' at full throttle, I don't see this happening, even when the engine is leaned all temps are about the same. It also doesn't happen at full throttle climbs, even while leaning during the climb. It only happens at less than full throttle conditions (2/3 throttle typically, 2300 - 2350 RPM's). I've tested all intakes for cracks and air leaks. I've even made sure that the intake path from the carb to the sump intake area was smooth (Opened up Van's cable bracket carb hole to smooth out the air flow. It sits between the sump and the carb). This seems to be an intake fuel distribution problem while running at a partial throttle condition. Has anybody seen this type of issue on an RV before? Does anybody have a solution for this problem? Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 320 Hrs in 14 Months :) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:31 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Rv-List Power Required From: smoothweasel@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com Hey Gordon, I have a few ideas one of which is the LS-1 Chevy V-8. the other is turbine power which would require a lot more fuel on board to become practical. This is mostly just thought right now........but you better watch what you dream cause it might come true.....I like to think how a v-8 rocket would sound but now im kinda thinkin that a hi preformance IO-540 could give me these numbers and would be much easiier to build. Do Not Archive Weasel On Sun, 5 Dec 2004 13:41:55 -0500 "Gordon or Marge Comfort" writes: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" > > > > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Rv-List Power Required > > > --> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com > > > Hey is there anyone on here that can give me an estimated HP that > would > be required to make a Harmon Rocket go 220knots TAS at say 22000ft. > I > have been doing some expensive dreaming. I wanna go faster and > higher > but I don't want the complications of a Turbo system. I have some > ideas > bur I don't know how much power I will need at this ALT. > > Weasel RV-4 > Brooksville Ms > > Smoothweasel: Your question has piqued my curiosity. Piper claimed > a > similar motive when they built the Comanche 400. The idea was to > improve altitude performance without the complexity of > turbocharging. > The late Dick Schreder described the result as "flying like a F6F > with a > full bomb load". The analysis of speed, power and altitude looks > good > to me as Kevin and others know their business. I would add that > experimental evidence says that with normally aspirated engines the > power decreases more rapidly than does the drag with increasing > altitude. If Kevin's figures are in the ballpark, then probably > more > that 300hp, perhaps as much as 350 sea level hp might be required. > What > sort of engine do you envision, rotary perhaps? > > Gordon Comfort > N363GC > > > > > > > > Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:43 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Air/oil separator --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Wheeler North wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >Well, > >to get into my thinking on the subject a little more... > >One concern was the SS inside aluminum with moisture is a galvanic situation >but I decided it probably isn't one that is too great given the heating it >gets every flight. > Dissimilar metal corrosion will occur even if it's dry ..... just not as fast as when wet. > I did choose to make this with out any gaskets, using >proseal and pop rivets with the intent in mind of opening it after a year or >so and see what's what. The original one had some small water/oil goop in >it, but it was not too bad after 800 hours of use. > Where did the rest of the stuff go? Did you return the 'goop' to the engine? >Also the screen area is about 3 square inches which is about 144 times the >area of the oil drain outlet. > >One concern I had was what happens on a very cold day prior to this thing >warming up, and I finally decided it would be warming up fairly fast given >that it gets most of its heat from the blowby. > I wonder just how warm it gets initially. I don't know. The same problem with icing of the crankcase vent should be there with the separator outlet unless it's in a warmer environment. That's why the normal crankcase vents have 'whistle slot's' in them. I'm supposing that if thee's no icing problems with the separator vents then maybe .... just maybe .... the water is being returned to the engine??? > But that is the reason I >liked the idea of a PRD installed, and I may make a version II out of the >old one I removed. > I'm guessing again. PRD = Pressure Relief Device??? I think it's a good idea. Down here in FL we seldom thing of icing situations ..... although carbs sometimes ice up. >The other question I have yet to answer is how to deal with the moisture >that this unit collects. > Route the separator vent into a glass jar that you can see during your preflight, or let it drip on the hot exhaust pipes .... as I've read on the list. > It would be nice to know how much comes from the >blowby by products and how much is drawn back in via case cooling after shut >down. > I agree. As the crankcase cools it will draw outside air back in. > It would also be neat if there was a way for it to dry the air as it >is drawn back into the engine. > Well, you could accomplish this with a bottle of silica gel ..... the stuff that changes color from blue to pink ..... but then it would also draw moisture from the outside air too. I've seen rigs on the 'net that hook this bottle of stuff to the exhaust and vent, but think it's a little overkill for the buck. Run the engine often and for an hour and you'll cut down on the moisture problems a lot. >Its interesting how much manufacturing effort there is to preoil an engine, >but little to no effort at preventing internal moisture during cool down, >all in spite of the fact that the manufacturer's all contend that corrosion >is the number one cause of shortened engine life. > Good point. However, using the engine often removes the moisture and keeps the top end (cam and followers and lifters) well oiled. Lit the engine sit for extended periods and all that oil will drip and evaporate off ...... and then the moisture can do it's dirty work. Linn do not archive > >W > > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:42 PM PST US From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" Since no one answered this question from a few days ago I'm going to give it another try. I just know there a resident electrical genius monitoring this list! Ivan Haecker -4 1100 hrs. S. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: RV-List: Molex connectors > --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > > Listers, > Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? > Thanks, > Ivan Haecker > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:24:07 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Go to http://www.aeroelectric.com/ and either contact Bob Nuckhols directly or hit the aeroelectiic list for the answer to your question. Along with free advice, you can get all your electrical needs from Bob too. Linn H.Ivan Haecker wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > >Since no one answered this question from a few days ago I'm going to give it >another try. I just know there a resident electrical genius monitoring this >list! >Ivan Haecker -4 1100 hrs. S. Cen. TX > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "H.Ivan Haecker" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Molex connectors > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" >> >>Listers, >>Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of >> >> >handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder >or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? > > >>Thanks, >>Ivan Haecker >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:10 PM PST US From: "Martin Hone" Subject: RV-List: Re:Cold/Lean Cylinders --> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" Hi Fred, FWIW - it would seem to me that provided your instrumentation is accurate, that maybe your carb is providing a leaner than normal mixture, either from too small a jet or because the float level is set too low. At full throttle, the extra mixture enrichment could be masking this leanness. I would disassemble the carb and check float level and jets and passageways. As a matter of interest, how far out from the panel does the mixture control get before it starts having a noticeable effect ? My O-320 D1A starts to run rough when my mixture control is out about 3/4 of an inch. If everything checks out, and there are no airleaks, you could check the ignition timing for over-advance. Cheers Martin in Oz ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:01 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol Ivan, The Molex .062 pin should be good to 5 amps and the .093 up to 12 amps, depending on the number of pins in the connector and the type of housing but 9 amps seems to be the norm. This info is from the Newark catalog. Check the specs on the light you're using to see how much current it draws. Dave H.Ivan Haecker wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > >Since no one answered this question from a few days ago I'm going to give it >another try. I just know there a resident electrical genius monitoring this >list! >Ivan Haecker -4 1100 hrs. S. Cen. TX > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "H.Ivan Haecker" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Molex connectors > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" >> >>Listers, >>Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of >> >> >handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder >or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? > > >>Thanks, >>Ivan Haecker >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:31 PM PST US From: "Tracy Crook" Subject: Re: [Bulk] RV-List: Rv-List Power Required Seal-Send-Time: Sun, 5 Dec 2004 19:49:26 -0500 --> RV-List message posted by: "Tracy Crook" ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Peterson To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: RE: [Bulk] RV-List: Rv-List Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > 10. There being no free lunch in this line of business, you > either need a > bigger engine or run more fuel through the same engine. > Still trying to get a grip on what is happening in this high vs low altitude thing but I do have a pretty good fix on the actual performance of my RV-4 at SL and 14,500 ft at 200 mph. At SL I have to burn 16 GPH to do it. At 14,500 I only burn 8.15 GPH at 200 mph (both TAS). Where is my free lunch coming from? Tracy Crook ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 04:58:56 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 12/05/2004 5:10:02 PM Central Standard Time, baremetl@gvtc.com writes: are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? >>>> I used the biguns just because they gave me a "warmer, fuzzier feeling" about these connects... (plus, I had some handy and sed "whut the heck...") Mark ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:50 PM PST US From: "Martin Hone" Subject: RV-List: Prop Pitch & MP --> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" Hi guys I am seeking advice from the many more knowledeable than me regarding prop pitch. I have a clean, straight and light RV6 with the old-style wheelpants and new O-320 D1A with 160 hp. The prop is a metal Sensenich with 79 inches of pitch. After calibrating the tachometer, I get the following figures : Static RPM - 2224 rpm Climb RPM - 2236 rpm Full throttle RPM @ 8,500 feet - 2600 rpm and 21 inches MP At 2000 feet, 25.5 Inches of MP and 2600 rpm, IAS is around 172kts (198 mph) So far so good. The prop is optimised for full throttle, 75% power at around 8000 - 8500 feet. But I generally don't fly at this altitude. At 5000 ft and 65% power the engine is turning 2450 but with only 21 inches of MP. I have been thinking about adding one inch of pitch to the prop, making it 80 inches, which is what Van's is recommending these days, as the engine seems to be lightly loaded at my normal 65% cruise speeds around 5000 ft. In other words, am I likely to get cylinder glazing if I run at these low manifold pressures ? Should I pitch up a bit and trade some MP for a little less rpm ? What about if I fit the later pressure recovery wheelpants ? And no, I can't afford CS.... ;-) Thanks in advance Martin in Oz ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:26:38 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 12/5/2004 3:10:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, baremetl@gvtc.com writes: Since no one answered this question from a few days ago I'm going to give it another try. I just know there a resident electrical genius monitoring this list! Ivan Haecker -4 1100 hrs. S. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: RV-List: Molex connectors > --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > > Listers, > Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? =============================== I beg your pardon, but I answered correctly on 12/01. GV (RV-6A N1GV, Flying 730hrs) ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:36 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Cold/Lean Cylinders --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Fred Stucklen" > > Listers, > > I'm having a problem with #3  cylinders running cold & > lean while flying in cold air. The engine is a carbureted > O-320-D1A with 9:1 compression pistons with a fixed pitch > prop, and Van's standard air box, on an RV-6A. > The problem seems to occurs when the outside air temp is > cold (below > 32*F) AND when I'm at a PARTIAL throttle setting (2350 RPM). > As soon as I begin to lean the fuel under these conditions, > #3 & #4 cylinder EGT's begin to FALL. At the same time #1 & > #2 cylinders EGT's begin to rise (as expected). Warm or Hot > air operations seem to cause the same problem, but they are > not as pronounce: The #3 & #4 EGT's first rise, then fall as > the mixture is leaned, but they are the first to run lean at > the partial throttle condition. Cold air seems to cause these > cylinders to run lean earlier in the leaning process (If they > are already running leaner than #1 & #2 cylinders, then they > would lean FIRST, or run LEANER in colder air prior to the > leaning process, and actually run leaner as the fuel supply > is limited). > This would indicate that #3 & #4 cylinders are running > leaner in cold air.. And as these cylinders EGT falls, so > does their CHT's. I've seen # 4 cylinder (the coldest) fall > BELOW 200*F with an outside air temp of 15*F, resulting in a > rough running engine. Under these outside air conditions, I > MUST run at full rich, and full throttle, in order to keep > the #3 & #4 CHT's above 200 *F. > The problem doesn't exist at full throttle conditions > (while running in cold air). All CHT's & EGT's are within > reason: within 25* for CHT's & within 100* for EGT's. It's > only when I come off of a full throttle condition that I am > having this problem. Flying at 11,000' at full throttle, I > don't see this happening, even when the engine is leaned all > temps are about the same. It also doesn't happen at full > throttle climbs, even while leaning during the climb. It only > happens at less than full throttle conditions (2/3 throttle > typically, 2300 - 2350 RPM's). > I've tested all intakes for cracks and air leaks. I've even > made sure that the intake path from the carb to the sump > intake area was smooth (Opened up Van's cable bracket carb > hole to smooth out the air flow. It sits between the sump and > the carb). > This seems to be an intake fuel distribution problem while > running at a partial throttle condition. Has anybody seen > this type of issue on an RV before? Does anybody have a > solution for this problem? > > > Fred Stucklen > RV-6A N926RV > 320 Hrs in 14 Months :) Fred, very precise description of your observations. It really seems like your partial throttle, full rich mixture position fuel flows are too low. I gather that you don't have a fuel flow meter in the plane. I don't know much about these carbs, but it sure seems like it is running things too lean (cold air would make that worse). A fuel flow sensor is not cheap, but I consider it a must have for proper engine management. The only real look at the panel during the takeoff roll for me is to verify that I have full fuel flow to the engine. The leaning process for me is always first by feel, then by fuel flow, then by egt. Alex Peterson RV6-A 559 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:15 PM PST US From: "Christopher Dahl" Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl skin screw spacing --> RV-List message posted by: "Christopher Dahl" Randy,,,we used two inches on our four to good effect. CDahl RV4 kit#26 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Lervold" Subject: RV-List: Cowl skin screw spacing > --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" > > RV-3/4 builders: anyone remember what spacing they used on the screws that > hold the top forward fuselage cowl skin to the main longerons? RV-3 and -4 > plans both call for 2.5" spacing yet when I scrutinize pictures I have of > finished planes it looks like many builder's used tighter spacing. Tighter > space could yield increased buckling with the #8 screw dimples. > > Randy Lervold > www.rv-3.com > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:48 PM PST US From: "H.Ivan Haecker" Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" Gary, Perhaps instead of saying that no one replied, I should have said that I didn't see a reply on the List. For that matter, I can't find a reply in the archives either. Something has gone wrong somewhere. Would you please repost? Ivan ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: Molex connectors > --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com > > > In a message dated 12/5/2004 3:10:02 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, > baremetl@gvtc.com writes: > > Since no one answered this question from a few days ago I'm going to give it > another try. I just know there a resident electrical genius monitoring this > list! > Ivan Haecker -4 1100 hrs. S. Cen. TX > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "H.Ivan Haecker" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Molex connectors > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "H.Ivan Haecker" > > > > Listers, > > Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of > handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder > or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? > > > =============================== > > I beg your pardon, but I answered correctly on 12/01. > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV, Flying 730hrs) > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:28 PM PST US From: Vanremog@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List "Molex" connectors --> RV-List message posted by: Vanremog@aol.com In a message dated 12/1/2004 10:01:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, baremetl@gvtc.com writes: Can someone in the know tell me if .062" molex terminals are capable of handling the current flow required for a taillight/strobe unit in the rudder or are the larger diameter (.093) terminals necessary? ============================= Tyco AMP .082" contact connectors are normally used for strobe connections supplied by Whelan and you should generally use what the manufacturer recommends. If you have the low mojo Aeroflash type then maybe you could get by with the .062" Molex, but keep in mind that on a smaller connector the contact "pitch" is less, putting the contacts closer together which may allow high voltage arcing. GV (RV-6A N1GV, Flying 725hrs) ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:05 PM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > Still trying to get a grip on what is happening in this >high vs low altitude thing but I do have a pretty good fix >on the actual performance of my RV-4 at SL and 14,500 ft >at 200 mph. At SL I have to burn 16 GPH to do it. At >14,500 I only burn 8.15 GPH at 200 mph (both TAS). > > Where is my free lunch coming from? I think at sea level your airplane is flying through a lot of windsurfer and catamaran sails, and that requires much more fuel. :-) -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:52 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: RV-List: OFF topic...sorta --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" NAW...he flys in the area of Imperial County Airport, California. The runways are BELOW sea level..... I have not flown there since 1964 on one of my long solo cross country flights that were required before taking the private test. Opp's..... I think I just gave away what an Ole Fart I really am.. KABONG 8*) Do Not Archive > I think at sea level your airplane is flying through a > lot of windsurfer and catamaran sails, and that requires > much more fuel. :-) > >> Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:37:52 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" Subject: Re: RV-List: Power Required --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" NAW...he flys in the area of Imperial County Airport, California. The runways are BELOW sea level..... I have not flown there since 1964 on one of my long solo cross country flights that were required before taking the private test. Opp's..... I think I just gave away what an Ole Fart I really am.. KABONG 8*) Do Not Archive > I think at sea level your airplane is flying through a > lot of windsurfer and catamaran sails, and that requires > much more fuel. :-) > >> Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage