---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/09/04: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:21 AM - Re: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron () 2. 02:52 AM - Re: Hobbyair Pro (Tom & Cathy Ervin) 3. 04:06 AM - Trio Autopilot Control Rod (Francis Malczynski) 4. 04:33 AM - Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod (Mickey Coggins) 5. 04:49 AM - Re: Vacum Test tool (Larry Bowen) 6. 06:01 AM - Bendix injector (Jeff Dowling) 7. 06:04 AM - Re: Vacuum Test tool (Charlie Kuss) 8. 06:09 AM - Hobby Air Pro () 9. 06:11 AM - Re: Bendix injector (Scott Bilinski) 10. 06:43 AM - Re: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? (George P. Tyler) 11. 06:56 AM - GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (Frazier, Vincent A) 12. 07:33 AM - Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (Bill VonDane) 13. 07:37 AM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Richard Tasker) 14. 09:14 AM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (RV_8 Pilot) 15. 09:37 AM - Re: Vacum Test tool (David Carter) 16. 09:49 AM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Dale Mitchell) 17. 09:49 AM - Re: Vacuum Test tool (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 18. 09:53 AM - Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 19. 10:16 AM - Aluminum polishing, recap. (Amit Dagan) 20. 10:36 AM - Re: Vacum Test tool (Larry Bowen) 21. 10:36 AM - Another T-34 lost. From AVflash (Bill VonDane) 22. 10:39 AM - polishing aluminum - addendum. (Amit Dagan) 23. 10:51 AM - Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (Mickey Coggins) 24. 10:53 AM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal (Mickey Coggins) 25. 11:02 AM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (Scott Bilinski) 26. 11:17 AM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Dale Mitchell) 27. 12:14 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (linn walters) 28. 12:20 PM - polishing aluminum (Amit Dagan) 29. 12:51 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Dale Mitchell) 30. 12:55 PM - Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (Bill VonDane) 31. 01:05 PM - Re: Vacum Test tool (CW Crane) 32. 01:32 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (linn walters) 33. 02:14 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (RV_8 Pilot) 34. 02:38 PM - Re: polishing aluminum (Gordon or Marge Comfort) 35. 02:49 PM - Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 36. 03:42 PM - Re: polishing aluminum (J. Rion Bourgeois) 37. 04:48 PM - Re: Hobbyair Pro (Kathleen (rv7)) 38. 05:00 PM - Re: polishing aluminum (Jim Jewell) 39. 05:14 PM - Autopilot GPS source switch (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 40. 05:18 PM - Rocket Insurance (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 41. 05:29 PM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (Scott VanArtsdalen) 42. 06:18 PM - Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod (John D. Heath) 43. 06:51 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Dale Mitchell) 44. 06:55 PM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (Jerry Springer) 45. 07:03 PM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (Richard Sipp) 46. 07:25 PM - Re: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? (Finn Lassen) 47. 08:04 PM - Re: Autopilot GPS source switch (Sam Buchanan) 48. 10:02 PM - Rocket Rides (Tom Gummo) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:21:22 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron --> RV-List message posted by: > Interesting about the blatent lack of concern about fixing one of Vans > problems, seems they need some attitude adjustment. I had a problem with an > order, and cust svc guy just told me flat out that maybe I should take my > business elswere. I told them what i thought of there "customer no service" > Charlie heathco Instead if preaching to the choir, maybe you guys need to write a letter to Van. No matter how good a product is, bad service can ruin a product for me. By the way, this attitude has been around for a very long time. My first experience with it was when I found the holes in my spars drilled incorrectly in 1992. I guess they get some real yo-yos on the phone, at times, with some of the stupidest of questions. Even if that's the case, there's no reason for any of them to be rude. They're in business because of us, not in spite of us. If a product has a problem, they need to fix it. They should also have sent out replacement hinges to those who required them, if the error was in their court. I'm wondering if Van even knows this is going on. Jim Sears in KY do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:05 AM PST US From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" Painted my RV6-A using it and liked it a lot! Works as advertised and never failed to deliver fresh air. Wish it had an On-Off Switch though. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg@itmack" Subject: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro > --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" > > Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments. > > Thanks > Greg > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:32 AM PST US From: "Francis Malczynski" Subject: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod --> RV-List message posted by: "Francis Malczynski" I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6 and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061 T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread. What have other people done?..Thanks Fran Malczynski RV-6 N594EF Olcott, NY ebbfmm@yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:34 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store, and drilled and tapped it. Photos here: http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452 Mickey >I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6 >and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going >from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end >bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061 >T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw >in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread. >What have other people done?..Thanks > >Fran Malczynski >RV-6 N594EF >Olcott, NY >ebbfmm@yahoo.com -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I used a blood pressure cuff. It worked well -- proved I had leaks!! http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=4 - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com bertrv6@highstream.net said: > --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > > Hi: > > What would be the best place to get one of those Gauges, to check > vacum pressure, for the static system. > > I thought that harbor freight would have it, but no luck... > > > I need to do this before final inspection....no? > > > Thanks > > Bert > > rv6a > > Do Not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:15 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: RV-List: Bendix injector --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" Is it normal for fuel to seep between the airbox mounting plate and the injector? I always have a small pool of an oilly fuel mess on top of my airbox. If it gets too full, it will eventually leak into the airbox and then out the drain hole. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 150 hours Chicago/Louisville ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:32 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacuum Test tool --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Bert, You can find a very nice one in the tool section of your local Sears store. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > >Hi: > > What would be the best place to get one of those Gauges, to check >vacum pressure, for the static system. > > I thought that harbor freight would have it, but no luck... > > >I need to do this before final inspection....no? > > >Thanks > >Bert > >rv6a > >Do Not archive > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:09:26 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Hobby Air Pro From: --> RV-List message posted by: Greg, I have been using the Hobby Air pro for a year now. Its the best money I've ever spent. I live in S. Fla and the biggest benefit is its a cool suit. I used to have a real problem with sweating in the paint. The hood keeps you nice and cool and no sweat. There is absolutely no reason for the face mask and a hood. I don't think you'll like it. One of the beautys of the hood is it brings the air in the back of your head. The hose then has a belt that holds it securely in the middle of your back. I paint holding a 150 watt shop light in one hand so I can look into the spray pattern as it flows back together. This means I've got a fresh air hose, and air hose and an electrical extension cord following me around everywhere I go. I just zip tie them all together and they then pull from the small of my back where the hood quick disconnect is. The hood is worth it just for this reason alone. You will never drag the air hose through fresh paint again because it is locked in over your shoulder. I love it. The pro air unit might be overkill. It will run two hoods just fine with a y splitter and two 40' lengths of hose. The dowside is with only one 40' hose it is a windstorm in your hood. It really needs a low setting when used with 1 length of 40' hose and one hood. Because of this, I always use it with the full 80' with half of it coiled up. Still its too much air, which means your tyvex paint suit had better be damn clean because all that extra air is exiting across your body. Still, I can't overemphasize how great it is to be able to paint and not have a rubber mask against your skin, just cool air. I bought my unit from Len at Autobodystore.net. He's a great guy to do business with and he often puts these things on sale, see if he's got one coming up. Be sure and get a bunch of the tear away shields. I recommend when you put them on you outline the shield with 1" masking tape so absolutely no overspray gets in under the shield to your good acrylic hood. Hope it helps, Eric Henson S. Fla ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:11:19 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Bendix injector --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Good question, I have the same problem, so your not alone. At 08:00 AM 12/9/2004 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" > >Is it normal for fuel to seep between the airbox mounting plate and the >injector? I always have a small pool of an oilly fuel mess on top of my >airbox. If it gets too full, it will eventually leak into the airbox and >then out the drain hole. > >Shemp/Jeff Dowling >RV-6A, N915JD >150 hours >Chicago/Louisville > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:29 AM PST US From: "George P. Tyler" Subject: Re: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? --> RV-List message posted by: "George P. Tyler" On my 6 I found it easier and not very expensive to replace the wheel. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Finn Lassen" Subject: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? > --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen > > How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? > > I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get > the darned things out to inspect/replace? > > Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225. > 3/8" axle bolt. > I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel. > > Finn > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:58 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? From: "Frazier, Vincent A" --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP My plan is to wire my GRT EFIS to the audio input. SNIP I have the GRT EFIS. I really like it. However, I DO NOT use the audio warning option. There are quite enough lights and warnings without it, IMHO. Regardless as to whether YOU want to use it, getting the parameters set up takes more than just a few minutes of programming and flight time. I HIGHLY recommend that you put a switch in that audio line so you can shut it off. If you don't, you won't hear the radio, music, or anything else for the first 5 hours of flight time due to the EFIS false alarms. It will be very distracting. OTOH, you might be a bonafide programming genius with a pHD in Lycoming parameters and sensing devices... in which case it will only take you three hours of flight time to stomp the squawks and get the alarm parameters set to what YOU want. This sounds like I'm griping about the GRT product... nothing could be farther from the truth. I like it very much. I have a copy of the EIS and EFIS parameters I use for my SIX cylinder Lyc. Have a look at the pages below if you have or are interested in the GRT EFIS or EIS. http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr ical.htm http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/RocketEISSettings.xls Don't forget to paste the links back together if they appear on two lines in your email program. Vince ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:13 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hey Vince... I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel to add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to mute the audio... -Bill www.rv8a.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frazier, Vincent A" Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP My plan is to wire my GRT EFIS to the audio input. SNIP I have the GRT EFIS. I really like it. However, I DO NOT use the audio warning option. There are quite enough lights and warnings without it, IMHO. Regardless as to whether YOU want to use it, getting the parameters set up takes more than just a few minutes of programming and flight time. I HIGHLY recommend that you put a switch in that audio line so you can shut it off. If you don't, you won't hear the radio, music, or anything else for the first 5 hours of flight time due to the EFIS false alarms. It will be very distracting. OTOH, you might be a bonafide programming genius with a pHD in Lycoming parameters and sensing devices... in which case it will only take you three hours of flight time to stomp the squawks and get the alarm parameters set to what YOU want. This sounds like I'm griping about the GRT product... nothing could be farther from the truth. I like it very much. I have a copy of the EIS and EFIS parameters I use for my SIX cylinder Lyc. Have a look at the pages below if you have or are interested in the GRT EFIS or EIS. http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr ical.htm http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/RocketEISSettings.xls Don't forget to paste the links back together if they appear on two lines in your email program. Vince ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:54 AM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Okay, but these sites all say that this system is for fire suppression to give the driver enough time to escape. It is not like we can just pull over to the side of the sky and hop out. Does anyone have experience with these type systems and can verify that they will really put out the fire or do they do what the sites say and merely suppress the fire for a period of time? Interested, but skeptical... Dick Tasker Mitch Faatz wrote: >Check professional car racing shops (search for AFFF) > >http://www.continentalmotorsport.com/onlinecatalogsafetyfiresystem.htm has >both handheld and plumbed in systems > >http://www.bimmerworld.com/onlinestoreframe.html and search for AFFF > >http://www.spausadirect.com/product_pages/motorsportfiresystems.asp?prodID=25 > > >Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:14:17 AM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: RE: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight being of much use in a cowling for a flying airplane (due to air velocity). Am I missing something here? Even race cars would probably have to stop moving then activate a system to be effective. In the cockpit - now that's a different story. Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. 2 cents Bryan > > >>David, >I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire suppression system could be >a >good life saving measure. >I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs) and found mostly >deriding comments on such a system. >Their point being, because of the very high air velocity going through the >engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas before it could >extinguish any fires. > >YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you need is AF3... Aqueous >Film >Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car guys use for onboard >fire >supression. So much better than Halon in this usage for many reasons. I was >probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression systems back in the >archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was working some with a >friend to bring >some of these systems to the experimental aircraft market before he >unexpected died and the whole idea kind of dissolved in the wake of his >death. If >there's interest, I imagine the idea could be revived. > >just my .02 > >Scott >N4ZW > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:47 AM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" Larry, When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of "pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the cut end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and squeeze-bulb pump? David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > I used a blood pressure cuff. It worked well -- proved I had leaks!! > > http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=4 > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry@BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:02 AM PST US From: Dale Mitchell Subject: RE: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I would use a dry chem extinguisher. the powder tends to stick to things. It will make a mess but if your to the point to use it that will be the least of your problems. Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years and the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for liquid fuel fires. JMHO Dale Mitchell RV-8A MN Wing --- RV_8 Pilot wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" > > > I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight > being of much use in a > cowling for a flying airplane (due to air velocity). > Am I missing something > here? Even race cars would probably have to stop > moving then activate a > system to be effective. In the cockpit - now that's > a different story. > Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. > > 2 cents > > Bryan > > > > > >>David, > >I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire > suppression system could be > >a > >good life saving measure. > >I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs) > and found mostly > >deriding comments on such a system. > >Their point being, because of the very high air > velocity going through the > >engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas > before it could > >extinguish any fires. > > > >YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you > need is AF3... Aqueous > >Film > >Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car > guys use for onboard > >fire > >supression. So much better than Halon in this usage > for many reasons. I was > >probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression > systems back in the > >archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was > working some with a > >friend to bring > >some of these systems to the experimental aircraft > market before he > >unexpected died and the whole idea kind of > dissolved in the wake of his > >death. If > >there's interest, I imagine the idea could be > revived. > > > >just my .02 > > > >Scott > >N4ZW > > > > > > > > Click on the > this > by the > Admin. > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:22 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacuum Test tool --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Bert, I missed your original post. Why can't you use your altimeter? If you get a hypodermic syringe from a veterinarian (the small ones used by diabetics aren't big enough), you can pull a vacuum on one of the static ports after you tape up the other port. I was able to grind off the needle to about 1/4 inch length, put a very small O-ring on it, and insert it into the static port. The idea is to pull enough vacuum on the static system to raise the altimeter about 1000 ft. If it doesn't lose over 100 feet (I think it is -- experts correct me) in one minute, you're home free. If it leaks down, you need to find the leak and fix it. I got this idea from a Grumman AA1C manual which I just sold along with the airplane, so I can't refer back to it. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July -- about 80 hours) >--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > > > > > >Hi: > > > > What would be the best place to get one of those Gauges, to check > >vacum pressure, for the static system. > > > > I thought that harbor freight would have it, but no luck... > > > > > >I need to do this before final inspection....no? > > > > > >Thanks > > > >Bert > > > >rv6a > > > >Do Not archive > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Bill and Vince, Thanks for the very timely reminder for this item. I just stuck this no my todo list. Also a question. The GRT has a pin assignment for pull to ground for "warning". Is this only for engine monitor functions? (Which I don't have. I am only using EFIS functionality) Is there any warning for air data in EFIS operation? Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Hey Vince... I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel to add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to mute the audio... -Bill www.rv8a.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frazier, Vincent A" Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP My plan is to wire my GRT EFIS to the audio input. SNIP I have the GRT EFIS. I really like it. However, I DO NOT use the audio warning option. There are quite enough lights and warnings without it, IMHO. Regardless as to whether YOU want to use it, getting the parameters set up takes more than just a few minutes of programming and flight time. I HIGHLY recommend that you put a switch in that audio line so you can shut it off. If you don't, you won't hear the radio, music, or anything else for the first 5 hours of flight time due to the EFIS false alarms. It will be very distracting. OTOH, you might be a bonafide programming genius with a pHD in Lycoming parameters and sensing devices... in which case it will only take you three hours of flight time to stomp the squawks and get the alarm parameters set to what YOU want. This sounds like I'm griping about the GRT product... nothing could be farther from the truth. I like it very much. I have a copy of the EIS and EFIS parameters I use for my SIX cylinder Lyc. Have a look at the pages below if you have or are interested in the GRT EFIS or EIS. http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr ical.htm http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/RocketEISSettings.xls Don't forget to paste the links back together if they appear on two lines in your email program. Vince ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:16:40 AM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" Listers, A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs. I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!! While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat that was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post. I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how long does it take to paint?!! The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem to enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting topic for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits more prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them (panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)? Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or not? I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted airplane is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the right hobby?!! ;) A few Notes of interest: The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) will cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of products (e.g. Rolite) have not switched back. For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from Harbor Freight. For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets, etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out there. Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will be around $150 if you buy plenty. You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than $1000 easily. As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it will last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up polish, and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it after it gets wet. As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on. Links of interest: http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also be important, this should be covered in the material instructions. So, am I going to polish my -7? At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing a painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done. And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a polished airplane: Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and make matters worse. So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the urge of touching it! Happy holidays, Amit. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I just slid one hose into the other. It provided a good enough fit for testing purposes. Nothing fancy. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com David Carter said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > Larry, > > When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of > "pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the > cut > end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and > squeeze-bulb pump? > > David > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bowen" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" >> >> I used a blood pressure cuff. It worked well -- proved I had leaks!! >> >> http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=4 >> >> - >> Larry Bowen >> Larry@BowenAero.com >> http://BowenAero.com >> > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:09 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: Another T-34 lost. From AVflash --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane SECOND AIR ACES PLANE LOST A Texas air-combat simulation and upset-recovery training center has temporarily suspended operations after losing a second aircraft in just over a year to an apparent wing separation. The Texas Air Aces T-34 went down Tuesday about three miles from where a similar aircraft crashed on Nov. 19, 2003. In both crashes, the two people aboard the aircraft were killed. And in both tragedies, witnesses reported seeing one of the wings snap off before the aircraft spiraled into the ground near Lake Conroe. ...THIRD IN FIVE YEARS A similar crash in Georgia in 1999 prompted an Airworthiness Directive (AD) requiring thorough periodic inspections of the wing spars on T-34s. After the AD was issued, several alternative methods of compliance (AMOCs) were approved. After the 2003 crash, the FAA's preliminary report suggested that the aircraft wasn't in compliance with the AD, but FAA preliminary reports can be wrong. The FAA report on Tuesday's crash incorrectly identified the aircraft as a Beechjet (hopefully this has since been corrected) and also says only the pilot was on board. Texas Air Aces spokesman Dave Hollaway told the Houston Chronicle he didn't know if the aircraft was in compliance with the AD. do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:22 AM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum - addendum. --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" One more link, and a few pictures: I added a few pictures of polished aluminum aircraft to the Yahoo RV7/7a group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ click on Photo Albums > Polished Aluminum. And, I forgot to mention this link for polishing aluminum reference: http://www.aircraftpolish.com/ Amit. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:24 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi Bill, When is it a pain? I'm not flying with my EIS yet, so I have not heard any of their warnings. Thanks, Mickey >I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although >it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel to >add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to >mute the audio... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:48 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins archive Subject: RE: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins archive Hi Dale, Won't the powder totally block your view when flying? Mickey >In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I >would use a dry chem extinguisher. >the powder tends to stick to things. >It will make a mess but if your to the point to use it >that will be the least of your problems. >Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years and >the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for >liquid fuel fires. >JMHO >Dale Mitchell >RV-8A MN Wing -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:02:14 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps the base aluminium, from corroding. At 06:15 PM 12/9/2004 +0000, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > >Listers, > >A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs. >I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were >unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about >the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection >of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment >was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!! > >While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their >experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually >start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with >better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat that >was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good >polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post. > >I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it >partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light >reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how >long does it take to paint?!! > >The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal >builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem to >enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting topic >for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits more >prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them >(panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)? >Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the >Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or not? > >I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I >found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted airplane >is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the right >hobby?!! ;) > >A few Notes of interest: >The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) will >cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most >expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most >popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of products >(e.g. Rolite) have not switched back. > >For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended >for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from Harbor >Freight. >For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo >model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on >e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets, >etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out there. > >Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will be >around $150 if you buy plenty. > >You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items >I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than $1000 >easily. > >As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it will >last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up polish, >and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You >don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of >fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much >everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it after >it gets wet. > >As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every >body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more >than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on. > >Links of interest: >http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html >http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm >http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html >http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html >http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm >http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm >http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm >http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm > >One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be >above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also be >important, this should be covered in the material instructions. > >So, am I going to polish my -7? >At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You >can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing a >painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done. > >And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a >polished airplane: >Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees >it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over >it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and make >matters worse. > >So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the urge >of touching it! > >Happy holidays, >Amit. > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:16 AM PST US From: Dale Mitchell Subject: RE: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell Quite possible but I think it would be for only about 15 to 30 seconds. I'm only thinking about using it in the engine compartment. Dale --- Mickey Coggins , UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > archive > > Hi Dale, > > Won't the powder totally block your view when > flying? > > Mickey > > >In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I > >would use a dry chem extinguisher. > >the powder tends to stick to things. > >It will make a mess but if your to the point to use > it > >that will be the least of your problems. > >Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years > and > >the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for > >liquid fuel fires. > >JMHO > >Dale Mitchell > >RV-8A MN Wing > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > __________________________________ Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:13 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Dale Mitchell wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > >In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I >would use a dry chem extinguisher. >the powder tends to stick to things. >It will make a mess but if your to the point to use it >that will be the least of your problems. >Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years and >the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for >liquid fuel fires. >JMHO >Dale Mitchell >RV-8A MN Wing > HOWEVER, the dry chem is very corrosive to aluminum ...... and it will find it's way into every nook and cranny. It's Hobson's choice ..... let it burn (and collect the insurance) or let it corrode apart over time (and get no insurance). Dry chem isn't good for your lungs so if you have a cockpit fire ...... As for an engine compartment fire ..... I think Halon may be able to kill the fire enough to get it under the flash point of burnables. I don't think it would have to last too long ..... but then I'm no fire expert nor play one on TV. Maybe if I go spend the night in a Holiday Inn???? If I have anything wrong here ..... I hope Dale will offer better data. Linn do not archive > >--- RV_8 Pilot wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" >> >> >>I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight >>being of much use in a >>cowling for a flying airplane (due to air velocity). >> Am I missing something >>here? Even race cars would probably have to stop >>moving then activate a >>system to be effective. In the cockpit - now that's >>a different story. >>Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. >> >>2 cents >> >>Bryan >> >> >> >>>>>David, >>>>> >>>>> >>>I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire >>> >>> >>suppression system could be >> >> >>>a >>>good life saving measure. >>>I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs) >>> >>> >>and found mostly >> >> >>>deriding comments on such a system. >>>Their point being, because of the very high air >>> >>> >>velocity going through the >> >> >>>engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas >>> >>> >>before it could >> >> >>>extinguish any fires. >>> >>>YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you >>> >>> >>need is AF3... Aqueous >> >> >>>Film >>>Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car >>> >>> >>guys use for onboard >> >> >>>fire >>>supression. So much better than Halon in this usage >>> >>> >>for many reasons. I was >> >> >>>probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression >>> >>> >>systems back in the >> >> >>>archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was >>> >>> >>working some with a >> >> >>>friend to bring >>>some of these systems to the experimental aircraft >>> >>> >>market before he >> >> >>>unexpected died and the whole idea kind of >>> >>> >>dissolved in the wake of his >> >> >>>death. If >>>there's interest, I imagine the idea could be >>> >>> >>revived. >> >> >>>just my .02 >>> >>>Scott >>>N4ZW >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>Click on the >>this >>by the >>Admin. >>_-> >>Contributions >>any other >>Forums. >> >>http://www.matronics.com/subscription >>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm >>http://www.matronics.com/archives >>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > >__________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:29 PM PST US From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" Maybe it wasn't clear from my earlier post, so let me put it clearly: I am no expert on the subject, just doing research. I asked for expert input, and got it on the websites I quoted. Ofcourse you can have a professional polish your plane. $4,500 is still cheaper (not by much) than the prices I hear from people who have had their airplane PAINTED by a professional. Will it take more than 4 days? Why did the RV-8 builder make it in 4? In fact I *did* mention there are more than one step, compounding and polishing. And if I made it sound easier than it is, well, sorry- that was not the intention, but how do YOU know? Did you polish an airplane? If so, I would be very interested if you could share some technical details, or at least let us know who the professionals that did the polishing on your friends 7 were. That would actually be beneficial for the readers. As far as your comment about "removing the pure aluminum" (alclad), that is not entirely correct. Read the link from the Perfect Polish website: "Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to Boeing. As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished a section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. Boeing says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad will be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway." There is a big difference between corrosion and oxidation. Aluminum oxide actually protects the aluminum underneath it from corroding. Unlike iron that just "rusts way", aluminum forms an oxidized layer on the surface that protects the inside. That is what the Alclad is there for. So, before you scare everyone from polishing their RV, I suggest you check your opinions against the facts. Not meaning to sound harsh here, or to start any list-mud-throwing, just advising caution, specificaly from individuals who start their words with "Trust me when I say..." only to follow with OPINIONS. Not that there is anything wrong with opinions, but they should be presented as such, not as facts. Opinion: n. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof. Again Scott, this is not meant to offend you in anyway. I hope you understand that. Happy holidays, Amit, a strong believer in personal opinions, but searching for the facts. ---- --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps the base aluminium, from corroding. http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:18 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=VewemDUv6gz0EwBgyS8T+E1e05s2/T2AePPVsjDJJGwW9I50t1PPLQpWXpolOsoMPzKC0FHfkUgCHiNbjeAA4Yd5n1CITgwE+Kq1F+PnnIs7FpmrXxNvlq8M26mUkEtbvZ8mtIkZeUZspU+NEKK0oAUO4opKETk7QLqz7OeBCz4= ; From: Dale Mitchell Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell I'm am no expert butt your right about the corrosiveness of a chem extinguisher. My thought is if you have a fire you will be lucky to save your life. IMHO Dale --- linn walters wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > > Dale Mitchell wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > > > > >In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I > >would use a dry chem extinguisher. > >the powder tends to stick to things. > >It will make a mess but if your to the point to use > it > >that will be the least of your problems. > >Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years > and > >the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for > >liquid fuel fires. > >JMHO > >Dale Mitchell > >RV-8A MN Wing > > > HOWEVER, the dry chem is very corrosive to aluminum > ...... and it will > find it's way into every nook and cranny. It's > Hobson's choice ..... > let it burn (and collect the insurance) or let it > corrode apart over > time (and get no insurance). Dry chem isn't good > for your lungs so if > you have a cockpit fire ...... > As for an engine compartment fire ..... I think > Halon may be able to > kill the fire enough to get it under the flash point > of burnables. I > don't think it would have to last too long ..... but > then I'm no fire > expert nor play one on TV. Maybe if I go spend the > night in a Holiday > Inn???? > If I have anything wrong here ..... I hope Dale will > offer better data. > Linn > do not archive > > > > >--- RV_8 Pilot wrote: > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" > >> > >> > >>I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight > >>being of much use in a > >>cowling for a flying airplane (due to air > velocity). > >> Am I missing something > >>here? Even race cars would probably have to stop > >>moving then activate a > >>system to be effective. In the cockpit - now > that's > >>a different story. > >>Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. > >> > >>2 cents > >> > >>Bryan > >> > >> > >> > >>>>>David, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire > >>> > >>> > >>suppression system could be > >> > >> > >>>a > >>>good life saving measure. > >>>I did some searches on the Matronics archives > (RVs) > >>> > >>> > >>and found mostly > >> > >> > >>>deriding comments on such a system. > >>>Their point being, because of the very high air > >>> > >>> > >>velocity going through the > >> > >> > >>>engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon > gas > >>> > >>> > >>before it could > >> > >> > >>>extinguish any fires. > >>> > >>>YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you > >>> > >>> > >>need is AF3... Aqueous > >> > >> > >>>Film > >>>Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race > car > >>> > >>> > >>guys use for onboard > >> > >> > >>>fire > >>>supression. So much better than Halon in this > usage > >>> > >>> > >>for many reasons. I was > >> > >> > >>>probably one of the ones deriding fire > suppression > >>> > >>> > >>systems back in the > >> > >> > >>>archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I > was > >>> > >>> > >>working some with a > >> > >> > >>>friend to bring > >>>some of these systems to the experimental > aircraft > >>> > >>> > >>market before he > >> > >> > >>>unexpected died and the whole idea kind of > >>> > >>> > >>dissolved in the wake of his > >> > >> > >>>death. If > >>>there's interest, I imagine the idea could be > >>> > >>> > >>revived. > >> > >> > >>>just my .02 > >>> > >>>Scott > >>>N4ZW > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>Click on the > >>this > >>by the > >>Admin. > >>_-> > >>Contributions > >>any other > >>Forums. > >> > >>http://www.matronics.com/subscription > >>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > >>http://www.matronics.com/archives > >>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > >>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >__________________________________ > > > > > > > > > === message truncated === __________________________________ ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:01 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane If I'm doing anything that make the RPM exceed limits, like acro, it just drives me nuts... Also, if when I first start I wanted to just warm up the engine until it was within parameters I could just let the light blink instead of nack'ing all the alarms, and when alls in the green the light would just go off... I would go postal if I had to listed to the alarm all that time! -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi Bill, When is it a pain? I'm not flying with my EIS yet, so I have not heard any of their warnings. Thanks, Mickey >I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although >it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel >to >add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to >mute the audio... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:08 PM PST US From: CW Crane Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool --> RV-List message posted by: CW Crane David, A good method for getting small amounts of pressure (or vacuum) is to use a water column. You can also use it as a vacuum or pressure gauge. One atmosphere is about 14.7 psi or 30 feet of water. Make a "U" out of a piece of 1/4" vinyl tubing and put some water in the bottom. Connect one end to the static system and lower the other end. Look at your altimeter while you do this and get some height above local (1000 ft or so). Tape the open end to something and leave it alone for a while. If the altimeter still reads the same when you come back, the static system does not leak. You can check the pitot system by connecting one end to the pitot tube and raise the open end while watching the ASI. The ASI should read 100 mph with 4.96" of water differential. I thought Kevin Horton's site had the procedures for calibrating the ASI and checking the static system but it was many moons ago when I last saw it. If you are interested and don't find it elsewhere, I can post what I have. CW Crane On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 11:37:18 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > >Larry, > >When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of >"pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the cut >end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and >squeeze-bulb pump? > >David ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:32:47 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters Dale Mitchell wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > >I'm am no expert butt your right about the >corrosiveness of a chem extinguisher. >My thought is if you have a fire you will be lucky to >save your life. >IMHO >Dale > That point is well taken. AOPA had an article in November ..... and inflight fires are not that common. They found 82 in-flight fire related accidents over 3 years. In 20, the crew was incapacitated before the airplane hit the ground. 14 were caused by electrical problems .... and 61 were engine related fires. Of the engine fires, oil starvation was #1, exhaust manifold failures were #2 and turbo fires #3. Their overriding theme was to get the airplane down ASAP (well, duh!)I think most fires occur during the startup phase when an engine can be over-primed. So, for me, the fire danger isn't enough to haul around a large bottle to flood the engine compartment (or the cabin) 'just in case'. So far I have over 2000 hours of purely personal fun flying without a fire. Where's that extinguisher .... I may be due!!! :-P Linn do not archive > >--- linn walters wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters >> >> >>Dale Mitchell wrote: >> >> >> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell >>> >>> >> >> >> >>>In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I >>>would use a dry chem extinguisher. >>>the powder tends to stick to things. >>>It will make a mess but if your to the point to use >>> >>> >>it >> >> >>>that will be the least of your problems. >>>Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years >>> >>> >>and >> >> >>>the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for >>>liquid fuel fires. >>>JMHO >>>Dale Mitchell >>>RV-8A MN Wing >>> >>> >>> >>HOWEVER, the dry chem is very corrosive to aluminum >>...... and it will >>find it's way into every nook and cranny. It's >>Hobson's choice ..... >>let it burn (and collect the insurance) or let it >>corrode apart over >>time (and get no insurance). Dry chem isn't good >>for your lungs so if >>you have a cockpit fire ...... >>As for an engine compartment fire ..... I think >>Halon may be able to >>kill the fire enough to get it under the flash point >>of burnables. I >>don't think it would have to last too long ..... but >>then I'm no fire >>expert nor play one on TV. Maybe if I go spend the >>night in a Holiday >>Inn???? >>If I have anything wrong here ..... I hope Dale will >>offer better data. >>Linn >>do not archive >> >> >> >>>--- RV_8 Pilot wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" >>>> >>>> >>>>I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight >>>>being of much use in a >>>>cowling for a flying airplane (due to air >>>> >>>> >>velocity). >> >> >>>>Am I missing something >>>>here? Even race cars would probably have to stop >>>>moving then activate a >>>>system to be effective. In the cockpit - now >>>> >>>> >>that's >> >> >>>>a different story. >>>>Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. >>>> >>>>2 cents >>>> >>>>Bryan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>David, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>suppression system could be >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>a >>>>>good life saving measure. >>>>>I did some searches on the Matronics archives >>>>> >>>>> >>(RVs) >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>and found mostly >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>deriding comments on such a system. >>>>>Their point being, because of the very high air >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>velocity going through the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon >>>>> >>>>> >>gas >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>before it could >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>extinguish any fires. >>>>> >>>>>YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>need is AF3... Aqueous >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Film >>>>>Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race >>>>> >>>>> >>car >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>guys use for onboard >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>fire >>>>>supression. So much better than Halon in this >>>>> >>>>> >>usage >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>for many reasons. I was >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>probably one of the ones deriding fire >>>>> >>>>> >>suppression >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>systems back in the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I >>>>> >>>>> >>was >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>working some with a >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>friend to bring >>>>>some of these systems to the experimental >>>>> >>>>> >>aircraft >> >> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>market before he >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>unexpected died and the whole idea kind of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>dissolved in the wake of his >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>death. If >>>>>there's interest, I imagine the idea could be >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>revived. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>just my .02 >>>>> >>>>>Scott >>>>>N4ZW >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Click on the >>>>this >>>>by the >>>>Admin. >>>>_-> >>>>Contributions >>>>any other >>>>Forums. >>>> >>>>http://www.matronics.com/subscription >>>>http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm >>>>http://www.matronics.com/archives >>>>http://www.matronics.com/photoshare >>>>http://www.matronics.com/emaillists >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>__________________________________ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >=== message truncated === > > > > >__________________________________ > > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:14:05 PM PST US From: "RV_8 Pilot" Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" >So, for me, the fire danger isn't enough to haul >around a large bottle to flood the engine compartment (or the cabin) >'just in case'. So far I have over 2000 hours of purely personal fun >flying without a fire. Where's that extinguisher .... I may be due!!! :-P Good point - if the (engine comp) fire risk is that big of a concern - buy two parachutes! A much more reliable means of solving the 'big fire' problem and surviving, IMO. But I still think a small bottle (~2-lb) is worthwhile in the event of a small cockpit fire, say under the fuel selector or boost pump. Would hate to bail on only a 2nd degree burn event! ;) ;) Bryan do not archive ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:30 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" Subject: RE: RV-List: polishing aluminum --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Amit Dagan Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum "Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to Boeing. As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished a section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. Boeing says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad will be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway." Amit: I find the above paragraph interesting and it tends to support my observations of the process. There are several things to think about when considering polishing/painting. I'll ramble through some that come to mind in no particular order. I need about 40 hours/year to polish my RV-4 if I only do it once. After new metal has been polished several times it becomes smoother and easier to polish. Nuvite seems to bring up the color the best. Less polish is better than more polish. Of course you can use too little and earn a poor finish. The more aggressive Nuvite compound helps with tough spots. Aircraft in maritime climates or humid regions that have wide temperature swings (winter to summer) are very difficult to maintain because of water spotting from condensation. Water spots allowed to stand will leave a spot with a ring around it that will not readily come off with finishing polish. The underside of a polished RV takes a terrible beating. Worst in the center section and flaps. Wool polishing muffs are too aggressive for me. The result is a sort of "dazzle" finish. Maybe good for first pass. I have a Cyclo and have stopped using it. If anyone wants it, I'll sell it. Cotton terry fabric (loop side) works better for me than cotton sweatshirt material. Synthetic content (even 5%) in the fabric causes trouble, pilling of the fabric and residual marks on the metal. I am currently using a 25$ 10" orbital from Lowe's. I will use up my supply of sweatshirt material and then go back to cotton terry, preferably new although nearly new is ok. A well polished aircraft is beautiful. People cannot keep their hands off it. Will I polish another? No. In Michigan I coat the entire airplane with LPS 3 for the late winter/spring months. Takes a couple of hours. After the hangar,floor,airframe are warm it takes several hours to remove the LPS 3. And a lot of towels. Vinegar based window cleaner is good for removing bugs, dirt etc. Needs clean towels. Bugs with blood in them should be cleaned off promptly. So should the others. Should you (or anyone) polish? I don't know. Polished aircraft are beautiful. They are higher maintenance than painted, although painted aircraft should probably have routine care that is about the same. Will I polish another? No, but I will be unhappy if I cannot come up with a paint scheme that truly pleases me. Polishing the underside is a real pain. If you really like the looks of a polished airplane, go for it. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:08 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling days and used one of them. Lucky -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store, > and drilled and tapped it. Photos here: > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452 > > Mickey > > > >I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6 > >and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going > >from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end > >bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061 > >T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw > >in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread. > >What have other people done?..Thanks > > > >Fran Malczynski > >RV-6 N594EF > >Olcott, NY > >ebbfmm@yahoo.com > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > > > > I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling days and used one of them. Lucky -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store, and drilled and tapped it. Photos here: http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452 Mickey I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6 and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061 T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearing s have a 6-32 thread. What have other people done?..Thanks Fran Malczynski RV-6 N594EF Olcott, NY ebbfmm@yahoo.com -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage alle, List Admin. Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:36 PM PST US From: "J. Rion Bourgeois" Subject: Re: RV-List: polishing aluminum --> RV-List message posted by: "J. Rion Bourgeois" Amit: I agree that you should polish your airplane for several reasons: 1. Historical accuracy. The Army AirForce quit painting their P-51s once they achieved air superiority over Europe. They didn't polish them and they weren't expected to last more than a few months in combat, but they looked cool clad only in alclad. So would your RV-7 which has an empennage profile intended to look like a P-51. My dad flew unpainted P-51s in the SC national guard. I have a picture somewhere of about thirty of them lined up on the ramp. 2. Experimental factor. You won't know what it takes and what it is like unless you try it. It will be more trouble to polish later if you have to remove a paint job first. You can always paint it later if you get tired of maintaining the polish or want to experience the painting experience. 3. It will look good. Three of the best looking RV-4's ever were Dave Ander's, Gordon Comfort's, and Paul Good's. Dave and Gordon's were totally polished, and Paul's was partially polished and copied a P-51 warbird paint scheme. You may have seen Paul's at one of the Chapter 105 breakfasts. I think Dave painted his after he added the turtle deck, but I'm not sure about that. I've seen your metal workmanship, and it is worthy of a polish job. Don't forget to polish the forward side of your prop (if you don't mind voiding the warranty.) 4. Improved performance. It will be substantially lighter unpainted, so it will climb better. Dave Anders set some sort of record with his. Some people claim painting them reduces drag and will increase cruise performance, though. 5. Will keep you out of trouble and save on vacation expense. Dave Anders once told me he and his dad polished his RV-4 twice a year. It took them 30 hours to polish and 8 hours to clean. You and Gail will have your vacation plans taken care of until you paint the plane. 6. Initial cost savings. Have you priced car paint lately? Wow! It will cost you over a grand for the paint and supplies even if you do it yourself. 7. Caveat. Be sure there are no concave polished surfaces under your canopy. An RV-4 pilot damaged his canopy when he left it open over a polished and curved wing root fairing on a sunny day. If you neither paint nor polish, your skins will either corrode or look like they are corroding. I can refer you to some local unpolished and unpainted RV-4s if you want to form an opinion whether it is oxidation or corrosion you are seeing. If you do polish it, check out Superior Signs in Tigard for your decals. I may still have my metal gear leg fairing skins if you want polished metal ones. Rion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum > --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > > Maybe it wasn't clear from my earlier post, so let me put it clearly: > > I am no expert on the subject, just doing research. > > I asked for expert input, and got it on the websites I quoted. > > Ofcourse you can have a professional polish your plane. $4,500 is still > cheaper (not by much) than the prices I hear from people who have had > their > airplane PAINTED by a professional. Will it take more than 4 days? Why did > the RV-8 builder make it in 4? > > In fact I *did* mention there are more than one step, compounding and > polishing. > > And if I made it sound easier than it is, well, sorry- that was not the > intention, but how do YOU know? Did you polish an airplane? If so, I would > be very interested if you could share some technical details, or at least > let us know who the professionals that did the polishing on your friends 7 > were. That would actually be beneficial for the readers. > > As far as your comment about "removing the pure aluminum" (alclad), that > is > not entirely correct. Read the link from the Perfect Polish > website: > > "Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to > Boeing. > As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin > sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently > defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished a > section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. Boeing > says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of > course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad will > be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway." > > There is a big difference between corrosion and oxidation. Aluminum oxide > actually protects the aluminum underneath it from corroding. Unlike iron > that just "rusts way", aluminum forms an oxidized layer on the surface > that > protects the inside. That is what the Alclad is there for. > > So, before you scare everyone from polishing their RV, I suggest you check > your opinions against the facts. Not meaning to sound harsh here, or to > start any list-mud-throwing, just advising caution, specificaly from > individuals who start their words with "Trust me when I say..." only to > follow with OPINIONS. > > Not that there is anything wrong with opinions, but they should be > presented > as such, not as facts. > > Opinion: > n. > A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by > positive knowledge or proof. > > Again Scott, this is not meant to offend you in anyway. I hope you > understand that. > > Happy holidays, > Amit, a strong believer in personal opinions, but searching for the facts. > > > ---- > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > > Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not > mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a > real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally > polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process > is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will > end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look > good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps > the > base aluminium, from corroding. > > http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:16 PM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" I looked at it, but I'm using a shop vacuum with a rheostat to reduce the output. It's cleaned up with a clean filter (of course) and I purchased a fresh air hood with full-face front and air port in back. Total cost was around $35 not including the piece of garden hose I used for the hookup. It works fine and is about equivalent to the Hobby Air in flow. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg@itmack Subject: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg@itmack" Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments. Thanks Greg ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:56 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: polishing aluminum --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" I wonder? Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight than a painted one. Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident. Do any search and rescue people out there care to share their experiance. Jim in Kelowna Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "J. Rion Bourgeois" Subject: Re: RV-List: polishing aluminum > --> RV-List message posted by: "J. Rion Bourgeois" > > Amit: I agree that you should polish your airplane for several reasons: > > 1. Historical accuracy. The Army AirForce quit painting their P-51s > once > they achieved air superiority over Europe. They didn't polish them and > they weren't expected to last more than a few months in combat, but they > looked cool clad only in alclad. So would your RV-7 which has an > empennage > profile intended to look like a P-51. My dad flew unpainted P-51s in the > SC > national guard. I have a picture somewhere of about thirty of them lined > up > on the ramp. > > 2. Experimental factor. You won't know what it takes and what it is like > unless you try it. It will be more trouble to polish later if you have to > remove a paint job first. You can always paint it later if you get tired > of > maintaining the polish or want to experience the painting experience. > > 3. It will look good. Three of the best looking RV-4's ever were Dave > Ander's, Gordon Comfort's, and Paul Good's. Dave and Gordon's were > totally > polished, and Paul's was partially polished and copied a P-51 warbird > paint > scheme. You may have seen Paul's at one of the Chapter 105 breakfasts. I > think Dave painted his after he added the turtle deck, but I'm not sure > about that. I've seen your metal workmanship, and it is worthy of a > polish > job. Don't forget to polish the forward side of your prop (if you don't > mind voiding the warranty.) > > 4. Improved performance. It will be substantially lighter unpainted, so > it > will climb better. Dave Anders set some sort of record with his. Some > people claim painting them reduces drag and will increase cruise > performance, though. > > 5. Will keep you out of trouble and save on vacation expense. Dave > Anders > once told me he and his dad polished his RV-4 twice a year. It took them > 30 > hours to polish and 8 hours to clean. You and Gail will have your > vacation > plans taken care of until you paint the plane. > > 6. Initial cost savings. Have you priced car paint lately? Wow! It > will > cost you over a grand for the paint and supplies even if you do it > yourself. > > 7. Caveat. Be sure there are no concave polished surfaces under your > canopy. An RV-4 pilot damaged his canopy when he left it open over a > polished and curved wing root fairing on a sunny day. If you neither > paint > nor polish, your skins will either corrode or look like they are > corroding. > I can refer you to some local unpolished and unpainted RV-4s if you want > to > form an opinion whether it is oxidation or corrosion you are seeing. > > If you do polish it, check out Superior Signs in Tigard for your decals. > I > may still have my metal gear leg fairing skins if you want polished metal > ones. > > Rion > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Amit Dagan" > To: ; > Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" >> >> Maybe it wasn't clear from my earlier post, so let me put it clearly: >> >> I am no expert on the subject, just doing research. >> >> I asked for expert input, and got it on the websites I quoted. >> >> Ofcourse you can have a professional polish your plane. $4,500 is still >> cheaper (not by much) than the prices I hear from people who have had >> their >> airplane PAINTED by a professional. Will it take more than 4 days? Why >> did >> the RV-8 builder make it in 4? >> >> In fact I *did* mention there are more than one step, compounding and >> polishing. >> >> And if I made it sound easier than it is, well, sorry- that was not the >> intention, but how do YOU know? Did you polish an airplane? If so, I >> would >> be very interested if you could share some technical details, or at least >> let us know who the professionals that did the polishing on your friends >> 7 >> were. That would actually be beneficial for the readers. >> >> As far as your comment about "removing the pure aluminum" (alclad), that >> is >> not entirely correct. Read the link from the Perfect Polish >> website: >> >> "Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to >> Boeing. >> As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin >> sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently >> defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished >> a >> section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. >> Boeing >> says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of >> course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad >> will >> be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway." >> >> There is a big difference between corrosion and oxidation. Aluminum oxide >> actually protects the aluminum underneath it from corroding. Unlike iron >> that just "rusts way", aluminum forms an oxidized layer on the surface >> that >> protects the inside. That is what the Alclad is there for. >> >> So, before you scare everyone from polishing their RV, I suggest you >> check >> your opinions against the facts. Not meaning to sound harsh here, or to >> start any list-mud-throwing, just advising caution, specificaly from >> individuals who start their words with "Trust me when I say..." only to >> follow with OPINIONS. >> >> Not that there is anything wrong with opinions, but they should be >> presented >> as such, not as facts. >> >> Opinion: >> n. >> A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by >> positive knowledge or proof. >> >> Again Scott, this is not meant to offend you in anyway. I hope you >> understand that. >> >> Happy holidays, >> Amit, a strong believer in personal opinions, but searching for the >> facts. >> >> >> ---- >> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski >> >> >> Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not >> mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or >> a >> real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally >> polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This >> process >> is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will >> end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really >> look >> good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps >> the >> base aluminium, from corroding. >> >> http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:14:07 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: Autopilot GPS source switch 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now. What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going to be wired up? Thanks, Lucky I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I still want it to alsofeed the EFIS. Can't find it now. What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going to be wired up? Thanks, Lucky ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:18:32 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: Rocket Insurance 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Hey you closet rocket guys on the list live Vince and Tom, what's your insurance like on your plane? Did it go up recently too? -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh? > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500 > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability > required) > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000 > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700 > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above). > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like > a Citabria. > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number. > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure. > > JT > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie" > wrote: > > > > Hi JT, > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is > it > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders > policies but > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to > work > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think > represent > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios. > > > > Examples for a builders policy: > > $40K (airframe only) > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house) > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar) > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger: > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time > w/Van's > > checkout) > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above) > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear: > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying: > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement > and Van's > > checkout. > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial. > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry. > > > > Darwin N. Barrie > > Chandler AZ > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM > > Online help on this group at: > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/ > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/ > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Hey you closet rocket guys on the list live Vince and Tom, what's your insurance like on your plane? Did it go up recently too? -------------- Original message -------------- Wow. Gonna make me work today huh? 40k builders risk $400 to $500 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability required) 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above). All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like a Citabria. Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware &g t; that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number. Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure. JT --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie" wrote: Hi JT, Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is it possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders policies but for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to work with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think represent some commonality and "worst case" scenarios. Examples for a builders policy: $40K (airframe only) $85K (airframe, engine, avion ics in house) $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar) Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger: Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time w/Van's checkout) Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above) Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear: Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying: 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement and Van's checkout. 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial. Thanks for your dedication to the industry. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: &g t; To: Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM Online help on this group at: http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/ * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:29:04 PM PST US From: Scott VanArtsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. --> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen GREAT post Amit!! do not archive Amit Dagan wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > >Listers, > >A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs. >I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were >unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about >the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection >of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment >was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!! > >While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their >experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually >start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with >better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat that >was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good >polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post. > >I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it >partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light >reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how >long does it take to paint?!! > >The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal >builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem to >enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting topic >for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits more >prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them >(panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)? >Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the >Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or not? > >I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I >found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted airplane >is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the right >hobby?!! ;) > >A few Notes of interest: >The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) will >cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most >expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most >popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of products >(e.g. Rolite) have not switched back. > >For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended >for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from Harbor >Freight. >For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo >model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on >e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets, >etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out there. > >Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will be >around $150 if you buy plenty. > >You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items >I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than $1000 >easily. > >As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it will >last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up polish, >and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You >don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of >fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much >everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it after >it gets wet. > >As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every >body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more >than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on. > >Links of interest: >http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html >http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm >http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html >http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html >http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm >http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm >http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm >http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm > >One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be >above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also be >important, this should be covered in the material instructions. > >So, am I going to polish my -7? >At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You >can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing a >painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done. > >And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a >polished airplane: >Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees >it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over >it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and make >matters worse. > >So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the urge >of touching it! > >Happy holidays, >Amit. > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:26 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Arrows make good push rods. Inserts used to install hunting and field heads would work just as well for a rod end bearing. John D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "lucky" Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling > days and used one of them. > > Lucky > > -------------- Original message -------------- > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins >> >> Hi, >> >> I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store, >> and drilled and tapped it. Photos here: >> >> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452 >> >> Mickey >> >> >> >I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying >> >RV6 >> >and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going >> >from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end >> >bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding >> >6061 >> >T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can >> >screw >> >in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 >> >thread. >> >What have other people done?..Thanks >> > >> >Fran Malczynski >> >RV-6 N594EF >> >Olcott, NY >> >ebbfmm@yahoo.com >> >> -- >> Mickey Coggins >> http://www.rv8.ch/ >> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage >> >> >> >> >> >> > > I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling > days and used one of them. > > Lucky > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store, > and drilled and tapped it. Photos here: > > http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20040910173454452 > > Mickey > > > I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6 > and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going > from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end > bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061 > T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw > in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearing > s have a 6-32 thread. > What have other people done?..Thanks > > Fran Malczynski > RV-6 N594EF > Olcott, NY > ebbfmm@yahoo.com > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > alle, List Admin. > Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:43 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=FgQ95hyzuyssZEGZEHHj6u6yRPwM9WJJCanw4rMv2IF1gj4zKEfxORJZhbjHcWM7J+zBSLJeviTA50HFbm3r5Q0FZXH03mWBCA+IPe8ayd+uxOKickHfEZEshN6qQQNn/rRjFOR5777vqeRjue8IBqyL2rirK4twOJyUzASVx1w= ; From: Dale Mitchell Subject: Re: RV-List: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell I agree with you I will not have a fire extinguisher in my plane. I just posted my opinion of what would be the best extinguisher to use. Dale --- linn walters wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > > Dale Mitchell wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > > > > >I'm am no expert butt your right about the > >corrosiveness of a chem extinguisher. > >My thought is if you have a fire you will be lucky > to > >save your life. > >IMHO > >Dale > > > That point is well taken. AOPA had an article in > November ..... and > inflight fires are not that common. They found 82 > in-flight fire > related accidents over 3 years. In 20, the crew was > incapacitated > before the airplane hit the ground. 14 were caused > by electrical > problems .... and 61 were engine related fires. Of > the engine fires, > oil starvation was #1, exhaust manifold failures > were #2 and turbo fires > #3. Their overriding theme was to get the airplane > down ASAP (well, > duh!)I think most fires occur during the startup > phase when an engine > can be over-primed. So, for me, the fire danger > isn't enough to haul > around a large bottle to flood the engine > compartment (or the cabin) > 'just in case'. So far I have over 2000 hours of > purely personal fun > flying without a fire. Where's that extinguisher > .... I may be due!!! :-P > Linn > do not archive > > > > >--- linn walters wrote: > > > > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > >> > >> > >>Dale Mitchell wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >>>In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system > I > >>>would use a dry chem extinguisher. > >>>the powder tends to stick to things. > >>>It will make a mess but if your to the point to > use > >>> > >>> > >>it > >> > >> > >>>that will be the least of your problems. > >>>Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years > >>> > >>> > >>and > >> > >> > >>>the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for > >>>liquid fuel fires. > >>>JMHO > >>>Dale Mitchell > >>>RV-8A MN Wing > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>HOWEVER, the dry chem is very corrosive to > aluminum > >>...... and it will > >>find it's way into every nook and cranny. It's > >>Hobson's choice ..... > >>let it burn (and collect the insurance) or let it > >>corrode apart over > >>time (and get no insurance). Dry chem isn't good > >>for your lungs so if > >>you have a cockpit fire ...... > >>As for an engine compartment fire ..... I think > >>Halon may be able to > >>kill the fire enough to get it under the flash > point > >>of burnables. I > >>don't think it would have to last too long ..... > but > >>then I'm no fire > >>expert nor play one on TV. Maybe if I go spend > the > >>night in a Holiday > >>Inn???? > >>If I have anything wrong here ..... I hope Dale > will > >>offer better data. > >>Linn > >>do not archive > >> > >> > >> > >>>--- RV_8 Pilot wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "RV_8 Pilot" > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>I can't see anything of reasonable size or > weight > >>>>being of much use in a > >>>>cowling for a flying airplane (due to air > >>>> > >>>> > >>velocity). > >> > >> > >>>>Am I missing something > >>>>here? Even race cars would probably have to > stop > >>>>moving then activate a > >>>>system to be effective. In the cockpit - now > >>>> > >>>> > >>that's > >> > >> > >>>>a different story. > >>>>Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon. > >>>> > >>>>2 cents > >>>> > >>>>Bryan > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>>>David, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>suppression system could be > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>a > >>>>>good life saving measure. > >>>>>I did some searches on the Matronics archives > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>(RVs) > >> > >> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>and found mostly > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>deriding comments on such a system. > >>>>>Their point being, because of the very high air > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>velocity going through the > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>>engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon > >>>>> > === message truncated === __________________________________ Send holiday email and support a worthy cause. Do good. http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:55:48 PM PST US From: Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer Amit Dagan wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > >Listers, > >A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs. >I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were >unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about >the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection >of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment >was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!! > > > Amit Being in the hanger next to you I can vouch for the excellent workmanship on your RV. I am not the one the mentioned melted canopy, but I have seen it with my own eyes on an RV-6. I also talked to an owner of an polished RV-4 from Calif. that had melted his canopy from reflective heat off of the wing. Before you do it I would suggest that you stand by a well polished airplane on a hot sunny day. Jerry ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:36 PM PST US From: "Richard Sipp" Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" Amit: The comment "you can always paint a polished surface" might be a little mis-leading. You certainly can but I think it would be very difficult to get all the polishing residue and various other contaminants out of every rivet dimple and seam. When discussing paint prep a painter told me the only difficult problem to overcome was cleaning a previously polished surface. Dick Sipp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amit Dagan" Subject: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap. > --> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan" > > Listers, > > A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of > RVs. > I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were > unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about > the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the > reflection > of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment > was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!! > > While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their > experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually > start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with > better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat > that > was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good > polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post. > > I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it > partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light > reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how > long does it take to paint?!! > > The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal > builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem > to > enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting > topic > for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits > more > prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them > (panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)? > Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the > Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or > not? > > I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I > found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted > airplane > is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the > right > hobby?!! ;) > > A few Notes of interest: > The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) > will > cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most > expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most > popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of > products > (e.g. Rolite) have not switched back. > > For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended > for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from > Harbor > Freight. > For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo > model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on > e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets, > etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out > there. > > Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will > be > around $150 if you buy plenty. > > You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous > items > I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than > $1000 > easily. > > As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it > will > last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up > polish, > and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You > don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of > fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much > everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it > after > it gets wet. > > As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every > body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more > than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on. > > Links of interest: > http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html > http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm > http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html > http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html > http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm > http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm > http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm > http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm > > One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be > above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also > be > important, this should be covered in the material instructions. > > So, am I going to polish my -7? > At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You > can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing > a > painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done. > > And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a > polished airplane: > Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees > it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over > it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and > make > matters worse. > > So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the > urge > of touching it! > > Happy holidays, > Amit. > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:02 PM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: Re: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen Thank your for all answers off and on the list. This morning I was able to drive out the bearings with a punch through the axle hole. Just took a bit more force than I expected. They are not easy to clean, and for next year's annual I'll be sure to have a new set on hand. (Less than $3 a piece from Vans. Shipping is probably going to cost more than the bearings :) Finn George P. Tyler wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "George P. Tyler" > >On my 6 I found it easier and not very expensive to replace the wheel. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Finn Lassen" >To: >Subject: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? > > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen >> >>How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? >> >>I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get >>the darned things out to inspect/replace? >> >>Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225. >>3/8" axle bolt. >>I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel. >> >>Finn >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:27 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Autopilot GPS source switch --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan lucky wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) > > I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I > want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS > and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on > someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I > still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now. > > What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going > to be wired up? Not sure I can totally answer your question since it seems you described two different scenarios. If you want to select the NMEA feed to the EZ-Pilot to originate from either the Lowrance *or* the EFIS, a simple SPDT toggle switch will do the trick. I have this arrangement on my panel so I can select either the Airmap 100 or AnyWhereMap to drive the EZ-Pilot. The only wire being switched is the NMEA data from each device. Unfortunately, Control Vision is not yet providing a standard NMEA data stream from AnyWhereMap so the EZ-Pilot can't digest the data from AWM. The autopilot works perfectly with the Lowrance, however. But, in the same paragraph you seem to imply you want to have the Lowrance simultaneously sending NMEA data to the EFIS. You lost me there. Sorry. Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:40 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" "Rocket List" , "RV List" Subject: RV-List: Rocket Rides --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" I just reviewed my pilot log book and counted all the people I have given rides to. After a little more that 2.5 years of flying, I had given ONE HUNDRED (different people - repeats don't count) Rocket rides. Of course, 38 were Young Eagles rides but the rest were EAA members, family members, and just airport people who were around at the right time. I am sure John Harmon has given many times that amount in his Rocket but I thought I would share my personal milestone with you all. Take care. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html