----------------------------------------------------------
RV-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Fri 12/10/04: 42
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:46 AM - Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
2. 06:30 AM - ACS 2002 (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
3. 06:49 AM - Tailwheel (Wheeler North)
4. 06:55 AM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (LarryRobertHelming)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Replace tailwheel bearings (Finn Lassen)
6. 07:54 AM - Re: ACS 2002 (Bobby Hester)
7. 08:11 AM - Re: ACS 2002 (Dan Checkoway)
8. 08:16 AM - Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod (lm4@juno.com)
9. 09:00 AM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
10. 09:29 AM - Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Kosta Lewis)
11. 09:29 AM - Re: Fuel gauge sdjustment (Dean Pichon)
12. 09:46 AM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (JT Helms)
13. 10:05 AM - Re: polishing aluminum - addendum. (Hull, Don)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Mickey Coggins)
15. 10:47 AM - sheared wingtip lighting (Kevin Shannon)
16. 11:01 AM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (Stein Bruch)
17. 11:05 AM - Re: polishing aluminum - addendum. (Dan Checkoway)
18. 11:14 AM - Re: sheared wingtip lighting (Bill VonDane)
19. 11:22 AM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Ed Holyoke)
20. 11:42 AM - GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? (EMAproducts@aol.com)
21. 11:56 AM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (Scott Bilinski)
22. 12:02 PM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (J. Rion Bourgeois)
23. 12:20 PM - unsuscribe listserv (Jenny Geiger)
24. 12:32 PM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (SportAV8R@aol.com)
25. 12:39 PM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
26. 01:08 PM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (Pat Hatch)
27. 01:33 PM - Battery tray suport cracked (F-877C) (GEORGE INMAN)
28. 01:56 PM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Jim Oke)
29. 02:29 PM - Re: Fuel gauge sdjustment Question? Aerospace logic.. (Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club)
30. 03:01 PM - Re: ACS 2002 (Pat Hatch)
31. 03:21 PM - Spaceship One Anecdotes (Ted Lumpkin)
32. 04:20 PM - Re: ACS 2002 (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
33. 05:28 PM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (LarryRobertHelming)
34. 06:13 PM - Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? (LarryRobertHelming)
35. 06:13 PM - Re: ACS 2002 (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
36. 07:04 PM - N174TY Flies! (jacklockamy)
37. 07:06 PM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Scott VanArtsdalen)
38. 07:29 PM - Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. (LarryLicking@aol.com)
39. 07:32 PM - Re: Spaceship One Anecdotes (LARRY ADAMSON)
40. 08:43 PM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Jerry Springer)
41. 08:57 PM - Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR (Scott VanArtsdalen)
42. 10:24 PM - Superior XP-360 Forum (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 03:46:20 AM PST US
From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and
consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems
it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved
and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and
try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi JT,
> > > >
> > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
> > > it
> > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> > > work
> > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> > > represent
> > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> > > w/Van's
> > > > checkout)
> > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > >
> > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > > checkout.
> > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > >
> > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > 28979569>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and
consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems
it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved
and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and
try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
owners) 5 years ago.
Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
without them making money on that book of business.
There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
were still working very hard for those customers.
For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
very important that the see and understand the risks they are
insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
Vanguard program?
What happened out there?
-------------- Original message --------------
One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
have about
500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
few in a 185,
the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
vary with say
100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
Brent Travis
N999BT
RV-4
_____
From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
Se
nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
40k builders risk $400 to $500
85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
required)
85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
$3000
85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
$2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
above).
All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
a
tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
like
a Citabria.
Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
aware
that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
even
to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
JT
--- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
wrote:
Hi JT,
Since this list is always in flux with new members and
builders is
it
possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
policies but
for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
us to
work
with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
think
represent
some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
Examples for a builders policy:
$40K (airframe only)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
time
w/Van's
checkout)
P
ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
w/endorsement
and Van's
checkout.
2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
Subje
ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
Get unlimited calls to
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
U.S./Canada
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
28979569
:HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
_____
&g
t;
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 06:30:44 AM PST US
From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of ACS
2002.
PROS & CONS and who has best price.
Thanks,
Doug Preston
RV7A
N196VA
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:49:45 AM PST US
From: Wheeler North
Subject: RV-List: Tailwheel
--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North
> --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
>
> How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>
> I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get
> the darned things out to inspect/replace?
>
> Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225.
> 3/8" axle bolt.
> I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel.
Bearings come out fairly easy, I didn't like how they fit though within the
TW assembly, so I made a spacer for inside, between the bearings much like a
stub shaft inside a preloaded steering drive axel commonly used in today's
cars.
This allows one to tighten the the tail wheel bolt enough for the bolt to
not spin.
But that all said, does anyone know of a valid criteria by which to
determine of a tail wheel is worn out?
W
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 06:55:24 AM PST US
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I expect
to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps that
insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a log
book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's annual.
I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage was
void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve our
performance is all I am suggesting.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky"
Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>
> Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
alternatives.
>
> We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV
owners and try it.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brent Travis
> > > >
> > > > N999BT
> > > >
> > > > RV-4
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > >
> > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > required)
> > > >
> > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > >
> > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> > > >
> > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > > > a Citabria.
> > > >
> > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > >
> > > > JT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > >
> > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> > > > it
> > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > policies but
> > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > > > work
> > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > > > represent
> > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > >
> > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > > > w/Van's
> > > > > checkout)
> > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > >
> > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > > > and Van's
> > > > > checkout.
> > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 28979569>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Terms of Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
alternatives.
>
> We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV
owners and try it.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
>
> whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
>
> What happened out there?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>
>
> Brent Travis
>
> N999BT
>
> RV-4
>
>
> _____
>
> From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> Se
> nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>
>
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
>
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
>
>
> --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> wrote:
>
> Hi JT,
>
> Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
>
> it
> possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> work
> with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> represent
> some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>
> Examples for a builders policy:
> $40K (airframe only)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> w/Van's
> checkout)
> P
> ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>
> And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> and Van's
> checkout.
> 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>
> Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> Subje
> ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> U.S./Canada
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> 28979569
>
>
> :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
>
>
> _____
> &g
> t;
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 07:48:12 AM PST US
From: Finn Lassen
Subject: RV-List: Re: Replace tailwheel bearings
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen
Hi Larry.
Cleaning and greasing ("re-packing") the main wheel bearings appear to
be standard procedure during any annual.
So after 500 hours, I figured I ought to do the same with the tailwheel,
even though I had no symptoms of bearing failure.
However, unlike the main wheel bearings, the tailwheel bearings are
nearly impossible to clean and regrease "by hand". I'm now of the opnion
that they should not be taken apart and instead simply be regreased by
using the nipple. This will force in new fresh grease and force out the
old grease. Possibly you'll want to loosen the axle bolt while doing it
to allow a bit bigger opening for the grease to come out - I haven't
tried it yet.
Finn
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
> I am wondering about what symptoms you were getting that prompted you
> to want to replace the wheel bearings as you posted recently on the
> RV-List. I ask this because I had not heard of it before this recent
> list thread. I don't recall it being on anyone's annual inspection
> "to do" list. I had in my mind to grease the fitting on the tail
> wheel swivel and replace the entire wheel assembly, including
> bearings, when it shows wear. Apparently this may not be wholesome
> thinking on my part. Please share your thoughts on my comments if you
> don't mind. Also in removing the bearings, do you think a pressure
> type press would work in pushing out the bearing sleeve rather than
> using a hammer as you did. I seem to break things more easily with
> hammers. Thanks.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 07:54:02 AM PST US
From: "Bobby Hester"
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:26 (CDT)
> Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
>
> Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of ACS
> 2002.
> PROS & CONS and who has best price.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Preston
> RV7A
> N196VA
>
Here is the link from their site of all the distributors:
Ready to order? Check out our distributors and compare prices.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/distributors.html
I beleive I bought mine from Van's at that time they had the best price.
I have installed one in mine but it won't fly for another year :-(
Dan Checkoway has one in his plane and I beleive he loves it!
http://www.rvproject.com/
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 08:11:33 AM PST US
From: "Dan Checkoway"
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
The ACS2002 is the most useful item in my panel. There's no other display
like it -- not even GRT or Dynon's new engine monitor. All parameters being
monitored have numeric and graphical displays. No paging necessary. It's
incredibly intuitive, and the voice warnings simply work great!
I highly recommend it! Go fly with somebody who has one, and you'll be
sold.
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (305 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From:
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
> --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
>
> Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of ACS
> 2002.
> PROS & CONS and who has best price.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Preston
> RV7A
> N196VA
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 08:16:06 AM PST US
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod
From: lm4@juno.com
--> RV-List message posted by: lm4@juno.com
Francis,
According to Tony B. one would get, or make, an
aluminum plug to fit into the end of the tubing of choice.
Drill and pin it into place, then drill and tap the end for
the bearing. HTH.
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
do not archive
On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 07:04:40 -0500 "Francis Malczynski"
writes:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Francis Malczynski"
>
>
> I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a
> flying RV6
> and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod
> going
> from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod
> end
> bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck
> finding 6061
> T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can
> screw
> in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32
> thread.
> What have other people done?..Thanks
>
> Fran Malczynski
> RV-6 N594EF
> Olcott, NY
> ebbfmm@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 09:00:30 AM PST US
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap.
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/9/04 8:56:43 PM Central Standard Time,
jsflyrv@earthlink.net writes:
> Before you do it I would suggest that you stand by a
> well polished airplane on a hot sunny day.
Just flying around on a sunny day in my (still) unpainted and unpolished
plane can be absolutely brutal when the sun is reflecting off the wing at the
right angle- enough to force a course change. Actually "tacked" for a while
headed to S&F this year!
Mark -6A, 135 hrs.
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 09:29:48 AM PST US
From: "Kosta Lewis"
Subject: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis"
>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
experience?
ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
them?
The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
IMHO
Michael
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 09:29:52 AM PST US
From: "Dean Pichon"
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel gauge sdjustment
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon"
My recommendation would be to purchase a programmable gage compatible with
your float-type senders. With such a gage, you can fill your tanks one
gallon at a time and remove most of the non-linearity of the float-type
sender. I have an Aerospace Logic gage that works with the senders provided
with my -4 kit. I believe EI may make a programmable gage, as well.
Removing a non-leaking tank from an RV seems like more agravation than
anyone needs.
Regards,
Dean
----Original Message Follows----
From: bertrv6@highstream.net
Subject: RV-List: Fuel gauge sdjustment
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hello:
I found out the right fuel sender is not correctly adjusted, it shows
more fuel than it should be..
I did adjusted as per the limitted instructions I got, to within 1/8
from
the bottom of tank...
What is the best way to do this, without having to remove tank, more
than
second time......?
Left is perfect upto 2 gallons...
I know fuel gauges are only as reference...still I would like to have
them
as close as possible.
Thanks
Bert
Rv6a
Do Not archive
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 09:46:00 AM PST US
From: "JT Helms"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky"
> To: "RV-List" ;
> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > > >
> > > > What happened out there?
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > N999BT
> > > > >
> > > > > RV-4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > required)
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > JT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > policies but
> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > > > work
> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > > > represent
> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > >
> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> >
> >
> > Brent Travis
> >
> > N999BT
> >
> > RV-4
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > Se
> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> >
> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > required)
> >
> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> >
> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> >
> >
> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > a Citabria.
> >
> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> >
> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> >
> > it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > P
> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subje
> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> >
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > Get unlimited calls to
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > U.S./Canada
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > 28979569
> >
> >
> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> >
> >
> > _____
> > &g
> > t;
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 10:05:48 AM PST US
From: "Hull, Don"
Subject: RE: RV-List: polishing aluminum - addendum.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Hull, Don"
Amit,
I enjoyed reading your posts and the responses by several readers. As a
reader myself, I offer this response consisting of three parts:
1) I was surprised Dan Checkoway didn't respond since his web site reflects
(no pun intended) his recent adventure with polishing some surfaces of his
RV-7. Dan, are you reading this?
2) The most recent EAA Sport Aviation magazine has a feature article about
Sonex builder Tony Spicer (the first customer of Sonex, Ltd) who polishes
his Sonex once a year. Admittedly, a Sonex is not as big as an RV, but my
memory tells me he only spends 8-10 hours per year polishing his Sonex.
FWIW, Sonex surfaces are 6061 rather than 2024 Alclad.
3) And last but not least, my wife mentioned the other day, without any
prompting from anyone, how pretty she thought polished aluminum airplanes
are. Her next question was, "When you finish your RV-7, why don't you
polish it rather than paint it?" I answered with something like, "It'll be
a while before I have to make that decision."
Thanks for initiating a useful thread and then providing the results of your
research.
BTW, keep us informed of the polishing vs. painting decision on your RV.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Amit Dagan [mailto:amitdagan@hotmail.com]
Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum - addendum.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Amit Dagan"
One more link, and a few pictures:
I added a few pictures of polished aluminum aircraft to the Yahoo RV7/7a
group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ click on Photo Albums > Polished
Aluminum.
And, I forgot to mention this link for polishing aluminum reference:
http://www.aircraftpolish.com/
Amit.
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 10:38:36 AM PST US
From: Mickey Coggins
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>... You DO have an
>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
Interesting post. What do you recommend for the kit?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 10:47:46 AM PST US
From: "Kevin Shannon"
Subject: RV-List: sheared wingtip lighting
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Shannon"
Does anyone know if a recessed lighting option is available anywhere for
the sheared type wingtips?
Kevin Shannon
RV 8
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
Time: 11:01:16 AM PST US
From: "Stein Bruch"
Subject: RE: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
had to total the airplane and pay for it.
And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky"
> To: "RV-List" ;
> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > > >
> > > > What happened out there?
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > N999BT
> > > > >
> > > > > RV-4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > required)
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > JT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > policies but
> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > > > work
> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > > > represent
> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > >
> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> >
> >
> > Brent Travis
> >
> > N999BT
> >
> > RV-4
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > Se
> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> >
> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > required)
> >
> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> >
> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> >
> >
> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > a Citabria.
> >
> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> >
> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> >
> > it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > P
> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subje
> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> >
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > Get unlimited calls to
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > U.S./Canada
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > 28979569
> >
> >
> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> >
> >
> > _____
> > &g
> > t;
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
Time: 11:05:26 AM PST US
From: "Dan Checkoway"
Subject: Re: RV-List: polishing aluminum - addendum.
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
> 1) I was surprised Dan Checkoway didn't respond since his web site
reflects
> (no pun intended) his recent adventure with polishing some surfaces of his
> RV-7. Dan, are you reading this?
Yep, I'm reading the thread and learning as I go -- I definitely apprecate
the research Amit has done. I'm still messing around, trying to learn what
that perfect mixture between too dry & too much compound is, when to change
bonnets, where to do it by hand vs. electric, etc. The one thing that's
obvious to me is that perfect polishing is a science, and technique is
everything.
I definitely have noticed the increased sun glare -- in flight, on the
ground, just sitting in the hangar.
Sure looks good polished, it's a lot of work, and I'm not sure what my
approach is gonna be yet. My goal when I started messing around with polish
was simply to clean it up, buff it out a little nicer. Honestly, I'm not
trying to win any awards, and I'm not that caught up in how it looks (it's
FAST and flies GREAT!), but at the same time I have nothing to hide -- the
little mistakes are there, hey, it was a learning experience -- and it looks
kinda cool all shined out.
All I know is that I'm not painting this plane. ;-)
do not archive
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (305 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
Time: 11:14:40 AM PST US
From: Bill VonDane
Subject: Re: RV-List: sheared wingtip lighting
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane
Hey Kevin... I have a lighting salutation for the sheared tips...
www.creativair.com
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Shannon"
Subject: RV-List: sheared wingtip lighting
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kevin Shannon"
Does anyone know if a recessed lighting option is available anywhere for
the sheared type wingtips?
Kevin Shannon
RV 8
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
Time: 11:22:12 AM PST US
From: "Ed Holyoke"
Subject: RE: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke"
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kosta Lewis
Subject: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis"
>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
experience?
>>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
IMHO
Michael
Some years ago, a buddy of mine painted his Comanche "Federal Safety
Orange". I called it dangerous orange because you couldn't hardly look
at it. Sunlight reflecting off the wings in flight was especially hard
to deal with. He eventually got around to painting a chocolate stripe on
the side and it actually looked pretty good.
We were flying up the Little Colorado River canyon and below the rim
walls one time when he turn to me and asked if I'd ever flown under a
bridge. I told him that he could do what he wanted but to remember that
he was flying the most recognizable airplane in the 11 western states.
He thought about it for a couple more miles and then pulled up out of
the canyon before we reached Cameron.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Red 6a
________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
Time: 11:42:49 AM PST US
From: EMAproducts@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed?
--> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com
Audio~~
On any system with audio warnings the audio should be able to be shut off
just like a CD player or anything else, Murphy does live, and if you are at a
tower field and the system has gone wild with warnings you need to shut it off
for safety. On our AOA system the instructions state to install a dedicated
switch to the system. In our case it shuts the entire system off as only takes
a few seconds to restart & self test. If there is a warning it needs to be
shut off anyway except while doing setup.
Tests over the years have proven the safety advantage of audio alerts,
buzzers will not pass new certification standards, voice warnings are mandatory.
Elbie
EM Aviation
________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________
Time: 11:56:41 AM PST US
From: Scott Bilinski
Subject: RE: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
Thats right rates aregoing up. I just talked with the NationAir people and
they told me rates will go up about 10~20%. Also told me that tail wheel
drivers on the EAA insurance plan have gone up 50%!!! Glad I have the nose
wheel!
They also told me thatAt 01:00 PM 12/10/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
>
>I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
>the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
>etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
>
>Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
>less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
>towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
>sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
>had to total the airplane and pay for it.
>
>And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
>keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Cheers,
>Stein.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
>
>How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
>and
>
>The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
>such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
>would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
>hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
>JT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "LarryRobertHelming"
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> >
> > I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> > to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> > risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> > this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> > to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
>expect
> > to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
>that
> > insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
>log
> > book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> > acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> > annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
>annual.
> > I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> > and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> > manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
>was
> > void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> > off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> > judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
>our
> > performance is all I am suggesting.
> >
> > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
> >
> > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> > in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> > - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lucky"
> > To: "RV-List" ;
> > Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
>RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > > >
> > > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > > >
> > > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > > >
> > > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > > >
> > > > John "JT" Helms
> > > > Branch Manager
> > > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > > Vanguard program?
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened out there?
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > > have about
> > > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > > few in a 185,
> > > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > > vary with say
> > > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > N999BT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RV-4
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > > required)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > > $3000
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > > above).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > > a
> > > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > > like
> > > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > > aware
> > > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > > even
> > > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JT
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > > builders is
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > > policies but
> > > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > > us to
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > > think
> > > > > > represent
> > > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > > time
> > > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > > w/endorsement
> > > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
>RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Se
> > > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > >
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JT,
> > >
> > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > >
> > > it
> > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > work
> > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > represent
> > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > >
> > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > w/Van's
> > > checkout)
> > > P
> > > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > >
> > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > checkout.
> > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > Subje
> > > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > >
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > 28979569
> > >
> > >
> > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > > &g
> > > t;
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________
Time: 12:02:46 PM PST US
From: "J. Rion Bourgeois"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. Rion Bourgeois"
Stein: The purpose of hull insurance coverage is to compensate the owner in
the event of damage or loss of the AC whether caused by owner/pilot
negligence, mechanical defect, weather, hangar fire, hurricane or whatever.
If you exclude coverage of losses due to pilot error,the premium goes down,
but so does the value of the coverage. If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion? That type of hull coverage
is available at a reduced premium, presumably because the risk of pilot
error, among other risks, has been excluded by the actuaries. Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch"
Subject: RE: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
>
> I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A
> in
> the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks
> in,
> etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
>
> Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful
> RV6A
> less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
> towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident
> was
> sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance
> company
> had to total the airplane and pay for it.
>
> And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance
> rates
> keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
> it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryRobertHelming"
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
>>
>>
>> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what
>> seems
>> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
>> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling
>> our
>> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest
>> ways
>> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
> expect
>> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
> that
>> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
> log
>> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
>> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
>> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
> annual.
>> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
>> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
>> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
> was
>> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about
>> flying
>> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
>> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
> our
>> performance is all I am suggesting.
>>
>> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>>
>> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
>> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
>> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
>> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "lucky"
>> To: "RV-List" ;
>> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
>> >
>> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
>> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
>> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
>> alternatives.
>> >
>> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
>> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
>> owners and try it.
>> >
>> > Lucky
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
>> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
>> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
>> > > owners) 5 years ago.
>> > >
>> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
>> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
>> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
>> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>> > >
>> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
>> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
>> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
>> > > without them making money on that book of business.
>> > >
>> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
>> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
>> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
>> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
>> > >
>> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
>> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
>> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
>> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
>> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>> > >
>> > > John "JT" Helms
>> > > Branch Manager
>> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
>> > >
>> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
>> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
>> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
>> > > Vanguard program?
>> > > >
>> > > > What happened out there?
>> > > >
>> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
>> > > have about
>> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
>> > > few in a 185,
>> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
>> > > vary with say
>> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Brent Travis
>> > > > >
>> > > > > N999BT
>> > > > >
>> > > > > RV-4
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _____
>> > > > >
>> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
>> > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
>> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
>> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
>> > > > > required)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
>> > > $3000
>> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
>> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
>> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
>> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
>> > > above).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
>> > > a
>> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
>> > > like
>> > > > > a Citabria.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
>> > > aware
>> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
>> > > even
>> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > JT
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi JT,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
>> > > builders is
>> > > > > it
>> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
>> > > > > policies but
>> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
>> > > us to
>> > > > > work
>> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
>> > > think
>> > > > > represent
>> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
>> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
>> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
>> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
>> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
>> > > time
>> > > > > w/Van's
>> > > > > > checkout)
>> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
>> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
>> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
>> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
>> > > w/endorsement
>> > > > > and Van's
>> > > > > > checkout.
>> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
>> > > > > > Chandler AZ
>> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > From:
>> > > > > > To:
>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
>> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > U.S./Canada
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > 28979569>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _____
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> > > > >
>> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Terms of Service.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>> > >
>> > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> > >
>> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> > >
>> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
>> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
>> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
>> alternatives.
>> >
>> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
>> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
>> owners and try it.
>> >
>> > Lucky
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> >
>> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
>> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
>> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
>> > owners) 5 years ago.
>> >
>> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
>> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
>> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
>> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>> >
>> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
>> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
>> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
>> > without them making money on that book of business.
>> >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
>> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
>> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
>> > were still working very hard for those customers.
>> >
>> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
>> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
>> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
>> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
>> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>> >
>> > John "JT" Helms
>> > Branch Manager
>> > NationAir Insurance Agency
>> >
>> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
>> >
>> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
>> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
>> >
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
>> > Vanguard program?
>> >
>> > What happened out there?
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> >
>> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
>> > have about
>> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
>> > few in a 185,
>> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
>> > vary with say
>> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>> >
>> >
>> > Brent Travis
>> >
>> > N999BT
>> >
>> > RV-4
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> >
>> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
>> > Se
>> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
>> > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> >
>> >
>> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>> >
>> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
>> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
>> > required)
>> >
>> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
>> > $3000
>> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
>> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
>> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>> >
>> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
>> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
>> > above).
>> >
>> >
>> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
>> > a
>> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
>> > like
>> > a Citabria.
>> >
>> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
>> > aware
>> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
>> > even
>> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>> >
>> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>> >
>> > JT
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi JT,
>> >
>> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
>> > builders is
>> >
>> > it
>> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
>> > policies but
>> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
>> > us to
>> > work
>> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
>> > think
>> > represent
>> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>> >
>> > Examples for a builders policy:
>> > $40K (airframe only)
>> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
>> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>> >
>> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
>> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
>> > time
>> > w/Van's
>> > checkout)
>> > P
>> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>> >
>> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
>> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
>> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>> >
>> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
>> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
>> > w/endorsement
>> > and Van's
>> > checkout.
>> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>> >
>> > Darwin N. Barrie
>> > Chandler AZ
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From:
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
>> > Subje
>> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> >
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> >
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > Get unlimited calls to
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > U.S./Canada
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > 28979569
>> >
>> >
>> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> > &g
>> > t;
>> >
>> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> >
>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Terms of Service.
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> >
>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > is subject to:
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________
Time: 12:20:42 PM PST US
From: "Jenny Geiger"
Subject: RV-List: unsuscribe listserv
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jenny Geiger"
________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________
Time: 12:32:52 PM PST US
From: SportAV8R@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>>>If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion?<<<
Because sometimes a wind gust, woodchuck hole, or vapor lock is not the pilot's
fault? Just a guess...
-BB
no dog in this fight as I have liability-only coverage
________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________
Time: 12:39:20 PM PST US
From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 12/10/04 11:30:42 AM Central Standard Time,
mikel@dimensional.com writes:
> The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange;
>>>>
...and the primer wars shift to using yellow vs. orange day-glo!
8-)
Mark do not archive
________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________
Time: 01:08:30 PM PST US
From: "Pat Hatch"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch"
As long as we are on an insurance thread again, may I put a good word in for
the NationAir Vanguard program? Many of you will remember that my RV-4 was
destroyed by the hurricanes this past September. I was very pleased with
the service I received from NationAir. Their adjuster came to see the RV-4
here in Vero Beach shortly after the hurricane, and within a few days I had
my check for the full insured value minus the $50 deductible. No fuss, no
muss. Outstanding service, no question about it. OK, so there was nothing
contentious, but neither were they looking for any problems or "loopholes."
Kudos to JT and his crew.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "JT Helms"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
> it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
> JT
________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________
Time: 01:33:39 PM PST US
From: "GEORGE INMAN"
Subject: RV-List: Battery tray suport cracked (F-877C)
--> RV-List message posted by: "GEORGE INMAN"
When I try to put the 32 degree bend in the
Battery tray suport (F-877C on the RV-8)
It cracks.This is .125 3/4 X 3/4 .
Ref. DWG 31
How did others do these bends?
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman@allstream.net
________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________
Time: 01:56:10 PM PST US
From: Jim Oke
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke
IMHO, the single best "crash kit" item - assuming we are talking about
things that will help someone spot you from the air - would be a mirror.
Shiny surfaces are highly visible from the air and, if they flash at you,
are real attention getters. One of the aimable "rescue mirrors" so-called
because you look through a partially silvered area and direct the reflection
in a particular direction would be ideal.
A blank or otherwise compact disc is a reasonable (and very cheap)
substitute.
OK, a mirror will not help at night or in overcast conditions but that's
when an ELT comes in.
Jim Oke
RV-3, RV-6A
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>
>
>>... You DO have an
>>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>
>
> Interesting post. What do you recommend for the kit?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________
Time: 02:29:21 PM PST US
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauge sdjustment Question? Aerospace logic..
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
Dean Pichon wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon"
>
> My recommendation would be to purchase a programmable gage compatible with
> your float-type senders. With such a gage, you can fill your tanks one
> gallon at a time and remove most of the non-linearity of the float-type
> sender. I have an Aerospace Logic gage that works with the senders provided
> with my -4 kit. I believe EI may make a programmable gage, as well.
> Removing a non-leaking tank from an RV seems like more agravation than
> anyone needs.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
Dean.
I have one of those gages but I have not started calibration yet.
How close are your readings when you are approaching the filled position, but
still about 4 or 5 gallons down? I have my float and sensor mounted on the rear
tank Bulkhead in the second rib bay from the root. It seems like the float is
going to top out before the tank is full. That is the reason for the question.
Down on the bottom end, it starts moving at a little over a half gallon, so
this should present no problem.
That is a far as I went so far. Tomorrow, I am hoping to start the calibration
process. It seems very simple but some of the instructions seem to be written a
little more complicated than needed. I am sure that after I do one tank, it will
be a lot simpler..
Phil, in Illinois, Sure wish I had an RV....... (someday)
Do not archive
________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________
Time: 03:01:40 PM PST US
From: "Pat Hatch"
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch"
Dittos for the ACS2002 on the RV-7 I built.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway"
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
>
> The ACS2002 is the most useful item in my panel. There's no other display
> like it -- not even GRT or Dynon's new engine monitor. All parameters
> being
> monitored have numeric and graphical displays. No paging necessary. It's
> incredibly intuitive, and the voice warnings simply work great!
>
> I highly recommend it! Go fly with somebody who has one, and you'll be
> sold.
>
> do not archive
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (305 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
>>
>> Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of
>> ACS
>> 2002.
>> PROS & CONS and who has best price.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Doug Preston
>> RV7A
>> N196VA
>>
>> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________
Time: 03:21:40 PM PST US
From: Ted Lumpkin
Subject: RV-List: Spaceship One Anecdotes
--> RV-List message posted by: Ted Lumpkin
A friend of a friend went to the AOPA conference in Long Beach, CA where Mike Melvill
was speaking. I thought you would find his report interesting.
Ted
I just had the extreme pleasure of speaking with Mike Melvill yesterday,
the
> pilot of SpaceShipOne's first two flights above the Karman line of 100 km.
> MSL, and with his wife. He gave a 45-minute presentation to the Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Association conference in Long Beach on Thursday, and
got
> a several-minute standing ovation. I was able to speak with him for a
short
> while after his talk.
>
> Since he was speaking to pilots, he didn't have to translate for the
> "general public" or pull many punches. He spent almost half of his time
> going over the flight controls and the entire cockpit
> layout inside of SpaceShipOne, explaining how it is flown. I think this
is
> the first time this has been explained publicly in such detail, and it was
> amazing. There are actually four separate flight regimes, and each is
flown
> differently. Just after launch, it flies like a piper cub, using a
joystick
> and rudder pedals with mechanical linkages to the controls (no hydraulic
> assists). When it goes supersonic, the aerodynamic forces are too high to
> be able to move the stick, and the controls are subject to flutter. So
they
> use an electrically powered trim system, flown using the "top hat" switch
on
> the joystick and a couple of grips on the arm rest of the pilot's seat.
> (There are backup switches to the left of the instrument panel, which had
to
> be used on one flight.) This moves the entire horizontal stabilizers, not
> just the elevons on the trailing edges.
>
> Eventually, they get high enough and the air gets thin enough that they
can
> again use manual controls, although the response is totally different than
> lower down. But that goes away as they exit the atmosphere; the Reaction
> Control System nozzles are then used for maneuvering in space. Coming
back
> down, the pilot has to reverse the sequence. There is no automated
> switchover of control systems; the pilot has to remember to move from one
> system to the next at
> the right times.
>
> The rudder pedals are not linked. Each controls one of the two vertical
> stabilizer rudders separately. You can push both rudder pedals at the same
> time, and get a fairly effective speed brake, with both rudders canted
> outward. Push both fully forward and they engage the wheel brakes. But
> these are not very effective and are only really useful for steering input
> during rollout. The real brake is on the nose skid: a piece of maple
wood,
> with the grain aligned down the centerline of the airplane. He said it
was
> the most effective braking material they could find.
>
> Stephen, we talked about G forces on Tuesday, and I got some of it wrong.
He
> says that he gets hit with about 3Gs kicking him backwards as soon as he
> lights the rocket motor. He's supersonic within about 9 seconds later.
But
> he immediately starts to pull up into an almost vertical climb. So he also
> gets over 4.3Gs pushing him down into his seat just from that maneuver.
The
> combined force is "very stressful" and Mike says it's "important not to
> black out" at that
>
> point. He's going 1880 knots straight up within 70 seconds. On re-entry,
> the aircraft goes from being absolutely silent while in space to
generating
> a deafening roar as it hits the atmosphere
> again. He's going about Mach 3.2 by that time, and has to survive about
> 5.5Gs for over 30 seconds, and lesser G forces for longer than that, as it
> slows back down. It sounds really intense, both as he explains it and on
the
> radio.
>
>
>
> A couple of interesting side notes: SpaceShipOne has a standard "N"
> registration number; but it is licensed as an experimental "glider".
> Apparently there was a huge bureaucratic hassle trying to license it as a
> rocket powered spacecraft, which they just sidestepped by calling it a
> glider. I asked him if it had a yaw string; he laughed and said that
would
> have burned off. By the way, the registration number is N328KF, where
328K
> is the number of Feet in 100km.
> (White Knight is N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.)
>
> Mike says that the flight director system (called a TINU) was developed
> completely in-house by a couple of 28-year-old programmers, and is
> absolutely fantastic to fly. That's why they don't need a yaw string.
But
> I had heard over the radio that Brian Binnie had re-booted the TINU just
> before the landing approach during the X2 flight, and it took quite a
while
> for it to come back up. So I asked Mike what that was about. He says that
> during re-entry, the TINU loses its GPS lock. So it keeps trying to go
back
> to catch up, re-interpolate and compensate for the missing data, and this
> keeps it a little behind in its actual position calculations. The pilot
has
> no straight-ahead vision at all, so they have a real issue landing: they
> can't see the runway! The way they do it is to fly directly down the
runway
> at 9000 feet; then they do a (military style) break and fly a full
> 360-degree pattern right to the landing. The TINU gives the pilot a "blue
> line" to follow and a target airspeed (which produces a given rate of
> descent). If the pilot follows the blue line, right to the break point
and
> through the two 180 degree turns, it will put him right onto the runway at
> whatever touchdown point he selects. But the TINU has to be absolutely
> current when this is going on. So at something above 15,000 feet they
> reboot the TINU and get it re-synched with the GPS satellites again before
> setting up for the landing!
>
> He also talked in detail about the rocket motor, and had photos of its
> insides after firing. The nozzle throat actually ablates as the motor
burns,
> enlarging the interior throat diameter as the burn progresses. He
described
> the problem they had on the June 21 flight: The rocket motor nozzle was
> skewed by about degree to one side. This generated a surprisingly high
> lateral torque trying to turn the aircraft. If it had been up or down
pitch
> rather than lateral, the controls could have handled it; but the lateral
> yawing forces were too great for Mike to compensate as the atmosphere
> thinned. The result was that he was pretty far off course. Mike says he
> reached apogee, rolled the spacecraft over, and was surprised to see the
> Palmdale VOR directly beneath him. That was 30 miles away from Mojave and
a
> long glide home. He says its amazing how fast a relatively small
deviation
> can produce large distances when you're going Mach 3!
>
> For one of the static burn tests, they had fire and safety crews all
> standing a mile away, ready to duck if anything went wrong. In the middle
> of the test, Mike and Burt Rutan walked up to the front of the motor
> assembly and felt the pressure vessel that contains the N2O. Mike knew he
> was going to have this same thing strapped onto his back soon, anyway, and
> he wanted to know how much it vibrated, how hot it got, and how loud it
was.
> It was deafening, literally. It turns out that, with the nozzles they use
at
> high altitudes, it's actually not that noisy inside the spacecraft. But
he
> still wears hearing protection.
>
> Scaled Composites seem to have fabricated quite a bit of the rocket motor
> themselves, including the N2O tank (which is also the structural core of
the
> spacecraft) and the nozzle casings. It would be interesting to hear from
> Michael's friend exactly what parts SpaceDev designed and what they
> manufactured.
>
> I took lots more notes. Very interesting stuff.
> W. Thomas Wall
________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________
Time: 04:20:41 PM PST US
From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Thanks for the feed back ya'll. I just ordered one.
Doug
DO NOT ARCHIVE
________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________
Time: 05:28:35 PM PST US
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
----- Original Message -----
From: "JT Helms"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
(((((((((Witnesses)))))))))
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
(((((((((Jurisdiction. I don't know what it is. I would think
regardless of the location/state of the accident, the state residency of the
insured could somehow have jurisdiction so the insurer could know its risk.
I am not a lawyer. It probably cannot be that simple. ))))))
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryRobertHelming"
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
> >
> > I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what
seems
> > to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> > risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling
our
> > this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest
ways
> > to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
> expect
> > to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
> that
> > insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
> log
> > book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> > acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause
an
> > annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
> annual.
> > I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more
casual
> > and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an
acceptable
> > manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
> was
> > void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about
flying
> > off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> > judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
> our
> > performance is all I am suggesting.
> >
> > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
> >
> > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> > in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> > - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lucky"
> > To: "RV-List" ;
> > Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all
the
> RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > > >
> > > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > > >
> > > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > > >
> > > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > > >
> > > > John "JT" Helms
> > > > Branch Manager
> > > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > > Vanguard program?
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened out there?
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > > have about
> > > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > > few in a 185,
> > > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > > vary with say
> > > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > N999BT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RV-4
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > > required)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > > $3000
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > > above).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > > a
> > > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > > like
> > > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > > aware
> > > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > > even
> > > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JT
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > > builders is
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > > policies but
> > > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > > us to
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > > think
> > > > > > represent
> > > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > > time
> > > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > > w/endorsement
> > > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Se
> > > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > >
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce@yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JT,
> > >
> > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > >
> > > it
> > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > work
> > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > represent
> > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > >
> > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > w/Van's
> > > checkout)
> > > P
> > > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > >
> > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > checkout.
> > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > Subje
> > > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > >
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > 28979569
> > >
> > >
> > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > > &g
> > > t;
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________
Time: 06:13:52 PM PST US
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
1.16 MISSING_SUBJECT Missing Subject: header
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
Interesting comments. The problem with hull coverage only (while not
moving) is it cannot be gotten without liability rider as I understand it.
The liability coverage is where the cost gets high IMO. I would be
willing to self insure my plane for its cost/value to keep insurance cost
down while flying; But, what I have found is liability cost goes up fast
with a TW and also with less TW flying time. Lack of training and TW time
does cause higher losses -- I do not argue with that. If anyone is not
meeting the insurer required prerequisites for training in a TW, the
liability coverage is WORTHLESS but you still pay for it if you want it,or
are required to get hull non-moving insurance.
I agree, payment could be excluded for pilot caused errors and stupidity.
It would make us all better off -- even those who display dumb/higher-risk
habits. Let insurance cover things we cannot control if that is what is all
we want. For instance, damage while flying with VFR ticket in Non VFR
weather conditions nor equipped plane is another thing that should not be
covered. That is pilot error for even getting there. No one should receive
a cent for running out of gas.
Filing a claim after flying off with a toll bar attached requires real moxy
to expect payment in that situation. No wonder rates or going sky high.
Surely some insurance lawyer can figure out a way to write an exclusion into
policies so THAT risk is removed going forward. What other dumb things do
the insurance companies pay for that they shouldn't? What other exclusions
can we come up with??
Indiana Larry
--> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com
>>>If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion?<<<
Because sometimes a wind gust, woodchuck hole, or vapor lock is not the
pilot's fault? Just a guess...
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. Rion Bourgeois"
Stein: The purpose of hull insurance coverage is to compensate the owner in
the event of damage or loss of the AC whether caused by owner/pilot
negligence, mechanical defect, weather, hangar fire, hurricane or whatever.
If you exclude coverage of losses due to pilot error,the premium goes down,
but so does the value of the coverage. If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion? That type of hull coverage
is available at a reduced premium, presumably because the risk of pilot
error, among other risks, has been excluded by the actuaries. Rion
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch"
I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
had to total the airplane and pay for it.
And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms"
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________
Time: 06:13:54 PM PST US
From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Too bad. I'd have gotten the GRT engine monitor system. It's upgradeable to an
EFIS later should you chose. Plus the EIS is a decent backup incase the MFD
went out.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
>
> Thanks for the feed back ya'll. I just ordered one.
> Doug
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
>
>
>
Too bad. I'd have gotten the GRT engine monitor system. It's upgradeable to an
EFIS later should you chose. Plus the EIS is a decent backup incase the MFD went
out.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Thanks for the feed back ya'll. I just ordered one.
Doug
DO NOT ARCHIVE
http://www.matronics.com/search
________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________
Time: 07:04:57 PM PST US
From: "jacklockamy"
"Tony Spicer" , ,
"Gus Schlegel" ,
"Eric and Jennifer Scheppers" , ,
"RV List" , "Matt Poff" ,
"Sylvia Oehninger" , ,
"Greg Healy" , ,
, "Roger Dillon" ,
"Rob Day" , "Dan Danska" ,
"Paul H. Christensen"
Subject: RV-List: N174TY Flies!
--> RV-List message posted by: "jacklockamy"
Another RV-7A was added to the list of "Flying" today!
N174TY was inspected this morning at CMA (Camarillo, CA) by FAA DAR Adam Valdez
(Bakersfield, CA). The inspection was very thorough, with only one minor squawk....
carb heat control cable nut behind panel was not tightened. Tom Yaberg
(owner/builder) did an OUTSTANDING job and the inspection with a single squawk
proved it. Tom honored me with being his Test Pilot while he continues to
work on obtaining his PPL.
Weather in Southern CA was perfect! 76 degrees F and light winds, CAVU. At 1515 local time, N174TY (flight of two) took off. Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway (www.rvproject.com) was the chase pilot with a videograher onboard. Thanks again Dan!!!
N174TY has a Superior 0-360 and Sensenich FP prop (72x85). Take-off was exhilarating!
Climbed to 4K FT, checked engine instruments, did a few turns and then it was a
nice climb to 6K FT MSL over the CMA airport. Dan came aboard and checked out
the aircraft. No problems. Reduced speed to slow flight and tried some turns.
Plane is rock solid! Visibility was approx. 50 NM!! What a ride......
Made a practice approach at pattern altitude for landing with 20 degrees of flap
and slow speed (85 KTS). Engine was purring.... Went around and set up for
the first landing.
First landing was uneventful and a 'greaser'. :-)
First flight was .9 hours. Tomorrow should be a repeat of the gorgeous WX here
in Camarillo, CA. Hope to put a few more hours on tomorrow. We got a 25 hr
fly-off period so we only have 24.1 hours to go.
As Paul Rosales says... "keep pounding those rivets!". What a great airplane!
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
-7A FWF
N174JL reserved
________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________
Time: 07:06:28 PM PST US
From: Scott VanArtsdalen
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen
My airplane is still unpainted and far from polished! But, my flying
buddies say that unless the sun is glinting off my airplane it's
practically invisible. Now I don't know if that's due to color or the
small size of the RV-4.
Kosta Lewis wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis"
>
>
>
>
>>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
>>
>>
>than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
>Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
>experience?
>
>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
>not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
>Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
>makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
>the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
>just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
>several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
>can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
>
>When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
>favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
>pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
>foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
>foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
>airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
>a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
>of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
>stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
>sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
>good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
>
>Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
>background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
>difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
>the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
>increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
>airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
>them?
>
>The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
>nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
>away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
>target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
>the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>
>IMHO
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________
Time: 07:29:31 PM PST US
From: LarryLicking@aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap.
--> RV-List message posted by: LarryLicking@aol.com
Dave Anders, a noted RV-4 builder from Visalia, California, whose plane has
set CAFE records and has been featured in Sport Aviation and other
publications, has painted his plane after the reflected sun's heat melted and distorted
his canopy. No lie, shiny is not always wise if the summer sun can do such
damage to a part which is so difficult to build.
________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________
Time: 07:32:04 PM PST US
From: "LARRY ADAMSON"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spaceship One Anecdotes
--> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON"
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Lumpkin
Subject: RV-List: Spaceship One Anecdotes
By the way, the registration number is N328KF, where
328K
> is the number of Feet in 100km.
> (White Knight is N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.)
>
Thanks for the article, as I found it very interesting. My reserved N-number for
my nearly complete RV6A is N328SL
which is a combo of the two above. But it's purely coincidence.
L.Adamson
________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________
Time: 08:43:29 PM PST US
From: Jerry Springer
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer
It is from the color, unpainted RVs are very difficult to see in the
sky. Throw in poor visibility conditions and
they just disappear.
Jerry
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen
>
>My airplane is still unpainted and far from polished! But, my flying
>buddies say that unless the sun is glinting off my airplane it's
>practically invisible. Now I don't know if that's due to color or the
>small size of the RV-4.
>
>Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
>>Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
>>experience?
>>
>>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
>>not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
>>Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
>>makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
>>the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
>>just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
>>several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
>>can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
>>
>>When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
>>favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
>>pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
>>foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
>>foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
>>airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
>>a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
>>of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
>>stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
>>sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
>>good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
>>
>>Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
>>background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
>>difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
>>the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
>>increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
>>airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
>>them?
>>
>>The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
>>nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
>>away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
>>target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
>>the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
>>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>>
>>IMHO
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________
Time: 08:57:28 PM PST US
From: Scott VanArtsdalen
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen
Ah, the old stealth RV-4. Now if that only worked with RADAR we could
save the government a ton of money.
do not archive
Jerry Springer wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer
>
>It is from the color, unpainted RVs are very difficult to see in the
>sky. Throw in poor visibility conditions and
>they just disappear.
>
>Jerry
>
>Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen
>>
>>My airplane is still unpainted and far from polished! But, my flying
>>buddies say that unless the sun is glinting off my airplane it's
>>practically invisible. Now I don't know if that's due to color or the
>>small size of the RV-4.
>>
>>Kosta Lewis wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
>>>Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
>>>experience?
>>>
>>>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
>>>not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
>>>Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
>>>makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
>>>the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
>>>just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
>>>several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
>>>can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
>>>
>>>When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
>>>favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
>>>pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
>>>foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
>>>foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
>>>airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
>>>a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
>>>of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
>>>stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
>>>sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
>>>good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
>>>
>>>Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
>>>background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
>>>difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
>>>the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
>>>increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
>>>airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
>>>them?
>>>
>>>The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
>>>nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
>>>away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
>>>target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
>>>the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
>>>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>>>
>>>IMHO
>>>
>>>Michael
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________
Time: 10:24:47 PM PST US
From: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Superior XP-360 Forum
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Listers,
For those who have an interest in the Superior XP-360 engines, there is a
new forum at
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/)
We are a group who collectively own, plan to own, or are looking for
independent info on the Superior XP360 series of engines, both carbureted and
injected, for experimental aircraft use.
We want to share our experiences, photos, data, thoughts and questions about
these engines. This forum is open to all, is unmoderated presently, so
anyone can join, post, reply, etc.
Regards,
Jerry Cochran