Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:41 AM - Please, oh PLEASE trim your messages (Andrew Douglas)
2. 05:45 AM - Re: [GRT_EFIS] Re: Autopilot GPS source switch (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
3. 07:26 AM - FAB filter bypass - IO-360 (thomas a. sargent)
4. 08:00 AM - Aircraft Insurance: USAA (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
5. 08:39 AM - Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 (Charlie England)
6. 08:57 AM - Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 (thomas a. sargent)
7. 09:24 AM - Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 (Doug Rozendaal)
8. 09:45 AM - Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 (Phil Birkelbach)
9. 10:16 AM - List - 42 messages!!!!!! 12/10/04 (don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister))
10. 12:24 PM - Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive (Bluecavu@aol.com)
11. 01:29 PM - Re: ACS 2002 (Mike Robertson)
12. 01:36 PM - Oil Cooler Location (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
13. 01:47 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Location (Sam Buchanan)
14. 01:59 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Location (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
15. 02:07 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Location (Jim Cimino)
16. 02:14 PM - Re: Fuel gauge sdjustment Question? Aerospace logic.. (Dean Pichon)
17. 02:21 PM - Re: N174TY Flies! (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
18. 03:30 PM - Wing fairing gap seal (Steve Allison)
19. 04:31 PM - Re: Wing fairing gap seal (RGray67968@aol.com)
20. 05:08 PM - Canopy Question (davercook)
21. 05:13 PM - Re: Wing fairing gap seal (Alex Peterson)
22. 05:20 PM - Re: Wing fairing gap seal (RGray67968@aol.com)
23. 06:16 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance (Jerry Calvert)
24. 06:34 PM - Re: Wing fairing gap seal (Dan Checkoway)
25. 06:37 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Location (Pat Hatch)
26. 06:40 PM - Fw: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance (Jerry Calvert)
27. 06:42 PM - ()
28. 07:37 PM - > Re:Canopy Question (Oldsfolks@aol.com)
29. 08:21 PM - Re: Canopy Question (Larry Bowen)
30. 08:40 PM - Re: Oil Cooler Location (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
31. 08:44 PM - Re: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance (Tom & Cathy Ervin)
32. 09:07 PM - Re: Wing fairing gap seal (Jim Oke)
33. 10:50 PM - Re: http://www.rvproject.com (j1j2h3@juno.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Please, oh PLEASE trim your messages |
--> RV-List message posted by: Andrew Douglas <adouglas@optonline.net>
<rant>
Okay, I know that "list police" messages are totally OT and can be annoying,
but what I got this morning is just ridiculous. Message 1 in last night's
digest was SO LONG from not being trimmed that I just had to find out how
bad it was. I copied and pasted that one message into Word and came up with
the following:
Pages: 16 (!) Note: this is at 12-point type
Words: 2,534
Characters (no spaces): 11,396
Characters (with spaces): 14,590
SIXTEEN PAGES of text for ONE email?
Here's the kicker: The actual message sitting on top of all of this quoted,
re-quoted and re-re-quoted text was....
72 words long.
And did not have a "do not archive" in it.
With all due respect, this is way over the top. Please edit your replies.
</rant>
We now return you to your RV discussion, which is already in progress.
PS: If you choose to reply to this, please DON'T QUOTE IT and DON'T ARCHIVE
IT.
Andrew Douglas
Do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: [GRT_EFIS] Re: Autopilot GPS source switch |
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--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
That's only part of the solution, as Sam points out, and why I asked the question
to the list in the first place because I couldn't see the switch solving the
other part of the problem. I want the autopilot to be driven by two different
sources but also wanted the switch to serve as a "T" for the Lawrence GPS seriel
output to drive the GRT all the time. But I had some coffee and realized
that if I tie the GRT's GPS seriel in line to the same pole that the Lawrence
GPS output signal is connected to then that pole acts as a always hot "T" to
allow the GPS signal to always find it's way to the GRT all the time. That can
be accomplished by putting both systems' wires into the same connector before
crimping (or solder contact before soldering).
Now it's a day later and when I look at this I don't even see the need for the
DP as Paul points out. I think this would work with a SPDT switch like Paul does.
The main ? now is that if I have the switch in the position where the Lawrence
is feeding both systems the GPS signal out of the same wire and power source,
by splitting it's output what am I going to do to the signal quality and ultimately
reliability? Probably none with these modern systems and short wire runs
and minimal conductor exposure in low RFI environments.
But anyone know for sure?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> Real easy Lucky - a simple DPDT mini toggle switch with the serial
> lines hooked up to teh "outside" contacts and the autopilot serial
> lines connected to the middle poles. (I actually only switched the
> single serial line and not the grounds, as I am using a common signal
> ground for all of the serial lines in the system, so I could have
> gotten by with a SPDT switch - but then again, I'm an aeronautical
> engineer by training, and not a EE...what do I know about electrons?
> LOL...)
>
> Paul Dye
>
>
> --- In GRT_EFIS@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
> > I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but
> I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance
> GPS and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this
> on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I
> still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now.
> >
> > What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going
> to be wired up?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lucky
>
>
>
>
>
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
>
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> GRT_EFIS-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
That's only part of the solution, as Sam points out, and why I asked the question
to the list in the first place because I couldn't see the switch solving the
other part of the problem. I want the autopilot to be driven by two different
sources but alsowanted the switch to serve as a "T" for the Lawrence GPS seriel
output to drive the GRT all the time.But I had some coffee and realized that
if I tie the GRT's GPS seriel in line to the same pole that the Lawrence GPS
output signal isconnectedto then that pole acts as a always hot"T" to allow
the GPS signal to always find it's way to the GRT all the time.That can be accomplished
by putting both systems'wires into the same connector before crimping
(or solder contact before soldering).
Now it's a day later and when I look at this I don't even see the need for the
DP as Paul points out. I think this would work with a SPDT switch like Paul does.
The main ? now is that if I have the switch in the position where the Lawrence
is feeding both systems the GPS signal out of the same wire and power source,
by splitting it's output what am I going to do to the signal quality and ultimately
reliability? Probably none with these modern systems and short wire runs
and minimal conductor exposure in lowRFI environments.
But anyone know for sure?
-------------- Original message --------------
Real easy Lucky - a simple DPDT mini toggle switch with the serial
lines hooked up to teh "outside" contacts and the autopilot serial
lines connected to the middle poles. (I actually only switched the
single serial line and not the grounds, as I am using a common signal
ground for all of the serial lines in the system, so I could have
gotten by with a SPDT switch - but then again, I'm an aeronautical
engineer by training, and not a EE...what do I know about electrons?
LOL...)
Paul Dye
--- In GRT_EFIS@yahoogroups.com, luckymacy@c... wrote:
I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but
I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance
GPS a
nd the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this
on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I
still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now.
What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going
to be wired up?
Thanks,
Lucky
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
GRT_EFIS-unsubs
cribe@yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Message 3
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| Subject: | FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Those of you with an IO-360 with vertical induction are aware of the
filter bypass kit that Van's supplies. It seems a bit hokey, using a
magnet to hold a hinged flap closed against the induction vacuum. If
the FAB inlet gets plugged, the air presure drops enough to pull the
flap open, is the theory. I don't have a lot of confidence in this
scheme. The magnet can weaken (from being heated, for instance). I have
no control over it (although that could be an advantage in some cases.)
I've also seen Van's filter bypass kit for the horizontal induction
IO-360. That kit uses a control cable to allow the pilot to pull
(rotate) the bypass door open/closed. I like that better. It's more
positive. I'd like to do the same for my vertical induction system.
The door would have to go in the bottom center of the FAB - that same
place that Van's bypass kit places it - so it would make an opening in
the center of the cylindrical filter, that is, the filtered air side.
The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
The door design is really the same as the one Van's uses on the Horiz.
Induction bypass kit, I would just move it from the aft section of the
FAB to the bottom of the FAB. The door would not have a hinge, but
would rotate around a bolt that would be vertically oriented. In other
words, the door would be in a horizontal plane and would remain in that
plane as it was opened, or perhaps I should say, slid out of the way. I
think if there is 1/2" or so of space, I could make something that would
work.
Comments?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Aircraft Insurance: USAA |
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0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
Just an FYI for USAA insurance members (ie, qualified current & ex-military members).
I was on their web site this morning and saw they do provide Aviation service.
Their minute blurb is copied below. They probably don't do the underwriting
but it's at least worth looking into if you haven't already. If their
airplane insurance is anything like their car insurance it probably can't be beat
now that Phoenix is out. Since just about every military officer is a usaa
member, they surely have dealt with a LOT of pilots and pilot questions/demands.
I'll call Monday myself and let you know what I find out.
If anyone's already insured by them on the list, would you mind sharing what you
know?
Thanks,
Lucky
USA Toll-Free 1-800-343-1547
Monday - Friday, 7:30 a.m. - 6 p.m. CT
Aviation Insurance
The Sky's the Limit
From coverages for hull damage and liability to medical payments, the USAA General
Agency can provide competitive quotes, personalized attention, and a highly
trained staff of professionals. We understand your needs as a pilot. Contact
Us.
Before purchasing aviation insurance, it is important to look at some of the contract
coverages that are not always so obvious. Besides comparing hull and liability
coverage and premium, these are some questions to ask when you shop for
coverage:
Can other pilots fly my aircraft? If so, what are the requirements?
How much expense reimbursement will the policy allow for other pilots flying the
aircraft?
Does the policy provide coverage for the use of a non-owned aircraft?
Does this company provide legal representation if I'm sued?
What rating has A.M. Best assigned to this insurance company?
Is there premises liability coverage for the hangar or tie-down space?
Just an FYI for USAA insurance members (ie, qualified current ex-military members).
I was on their web site this morning and saw they do provideAviation service.
Their minute blurb is copied below. They probably don't do the underwriting
but it's at least worth looking into if you haven't already. If their airplane
insurance is anything like their car insurance it probably can't be beat
now that Phoenix is out. Since just about every military officer is a usaa member,
they surely have dealt with a LOT of pilots and pilot questions/demands.
I'll call Monday myself and let you know what I find out.
If anyone's already insured by them on the list, would you mind sharing what you
know?
Thanks,
Lucky
<NOBR>USA</NOBR>
<NOBR>Toll-Free</NOBR>
1-800-343-1547
<NOBR>Monday - Friday, 7:30 a.m. - 6 p.m. CT</NOBR>
<!-- prodwas9a,low_impact_01 -->
<FORM id=pc_aviation name=pc_aviation action=/inet/gas_pc/StaticPages method=post>
<H1>Aviation Insurance</H1>
The Sky's the LimitFrom coverages for hull damage and liability to medical payments,
the USAA General Agency can provide competitive quotes, personalized attention,
and a highly trained staff of professionals. We understand your needs
as a pilot. Contact Us.
Before purchasing aviation insurance, it is important to look at some of the contract
coverages that are not always so obvious. Besides comparing hull and liability
coverage and premium, these are some questions to ask when you shop for
coverage:
<IMG height=1 alt="" src="https://ww4.usaa.com/media/g_blank.gif" width=1>
Can other pilots fly my aircraft? If so, what are the requirements?
How much expense reimbursement will the policy allow for other pilots flying the
aircraft?
Does the policy provide coverage for the use of a non-owned aircraft?
Does this company provide legal representation if I'm sued?
What rating has A.M. Best assigned to this insurance company?
Is there premises liability coverage for the hangar or tie-down space?
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
thomas a. sargent wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
>Those of you with an IO-360 with vertical induction are aware of the
>filter bypass kit that Van's supplies. It seems a bit hokey, using a
>magnet to hold a hinged flap closed against the induction vacuum. If
>the FAB inlet gets plugged, the air presure drops enough to pull the
>flap open, is the theory. I don't have a lot of confidence in this
>scheme. The magnet can weaken (from being heated, for instance). I have
>no control over it (although that could be an advantage in some cases.)
>
>I've also seen Van's filter bypass kit for the horizontal induction
>IO-360. That kit uses a control cable to allow the pilot to pull
>(rotate) the bypass door open/closed. I like that better. It's more
>positive. I'd like to do the same for my vertical induction system.
>The door would have to go in the bottom center of the FAB - that same
>place that Van's bypass kit places it - so it would make an opening in
>the center of the cylindrical filter, that is, the filtered air side.
>
>The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
>cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
>I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
>the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
>
>The door design is really the same as the one Van's uses on the Horiz.
>Induction bypass kit, I would just move it from the aft section of the
>FAB to the bottom of the FAB. The door would not have a hinge, but
>would rotate around a bolt that would be vertically oriented. In other
>words, the door would be in a horizontal plane and would remain in that
>plane as it was opened, or perhaps I should say, slid out of the way. I
>think if there is 1/2" or so of space, I could make something that would
>work.
>
>Comments?
>--
>Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
>
Go with what makes you comfortable, but be aware that spring loaded
alternate air doors aren't exactly rare in 'factory' a/c with fuel
injection. If the failure mode of an automatic alternate air system is
relatively benign, it can be used without adding another item to the
pilot's work load during stressful times.
If undetected opening concerns you, why not just add a switch to the
door & a light on the panel? It will be much lighter than a control
cable & a lot easier to install.
Charlie
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Charlie England wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>thomas a. sargent wrote:
>
>The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
>cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
>I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
>the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
>
>
>
>
>Go with what makes you comfortable, but be aware that spring loaded
>alternate air doors aren't exactly rare in 'factory' a/c with fuel
>injection. If the failure mode of an automatic alternate air system is
>relatively benign, it can be used without adding another item to the
>pilot's work load during stressful times.
>
>If undetected opening concerns you, why not just add a switch to the
>door & a light on the panel? It will be much lighter than a control
>cable & a lot easier to install.
>
>Charlie
>
Charlie:
What you say about the passive door is true. If it opens when it
shouldn't that's not bad. The problem is, if it fails the other way and
doesn't open when it should, there's absolutely nothing I can do about it.
--
Tom Sargent
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr@petroblend.com>
My $.02
Several store bought airplanes have an automatic door system. If you are a
typical pilot and absolutely insist that it have a knob, a light, a lever, a
gauge, a buzzer, a switch, a circuit breaker, or all of the above, then run
a cable with a lever that knocks the door open, but WHY would you disable
the automatic feature? The most likely thing that plugs that filter is ice,
and it would take lots of ice. If it plugged with ice, you will already be
in a big mess and probably mentally overloaded. At times like that, the last
thing you need is more to worry about or fool with.
Some store bought airplanes have a spring loaded door system and a lever,
the upside to a spring is it automatically resets, and the downside to the
spring is, it auto resets. I think the magnet is elegantly simple and
solves several problems with the fewest moving parts and the least amount of
weight. Any thing else you build will have more failure modes and more
weight.
If you gotta have a light, put a light on it, but all the time you spend
designing and building that is time you could be out flying and having a
ball. Once a year knock the door open and make sure the magnet still
works. I look around inside every oil change if the door was open I would
close it, if it was open the next time, I would change the air filter or the
magnet. Simpler is almost always better.
The downside of the door coming open is unfiltered air. Lots of old
airplanes had no air filter at all. They make TBO unless you live in a dust
bowl. 25 or 50 hours of unfiltered air is not going to cause a problem.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: FAB filter bypass - IO-360
> --> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Those of you with an IO-360 with vertical induction are aware of the
> filter bypass kit that Van's supplies. It seems a bit hokey, using a
> magnet to hold a hinged flap closed against the induction vacuum. If
> the FAB inlet gets plugged, the air presure drops enough to pull the
> flap open, is the theory. I don't have a lot of confidence in this
> scheme. The magnet can weaken (from being heated, for instance). I have
> no control over it (although that could be an advantage in some cases.)
>
> I've also seen Van's filter bypass kit for the horizontal induction
> IO-360. That kit uses a control cable to allow the pilot to pull
> (rotate) the bypass door open/closed. I like that better. It's more
> positive. I'd like to do the same for my vertical induction system.
> The door would have to go in the bottom center of the FAB - that same
> place that Van's bypass kit places it - so it would make an opening in
> the center of the cylindrical filter, that is, the filtered air side.
>
> The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
> cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
> I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
> the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
>
> The door design is really the same as the one Van's uses on the Horiz.
> Induction bypass kit, I would just move it from the aft section of the
> FAB to the bottom of the FAB. The door would not have a hinge, but
> would rotate around a bolt that would be vertically oriented. In other
> words, the door would be in a horizontal plane and would remain in that
> plane as it was opened, or perhaps I should say, slid out of the way. I
> think if there is 1/2" or so of space, I could make something that would
> work.
>
> Comments?
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
--> RV-List message posted by: Phil Birkelbach <phil@petrasoft.net>
I agree, why not stick with what is simple. That is a very high quality
magnet and it will be many years before it is weak enough to allow the
door to come open. It is not as hokey as you think, that is one strong
little magnet. It's one of those fancy neodymium rare earth magnets.
To answer your question; there may be enough room under there to do what
you suggest. I think that my installation has about .75" between the
bottom of the FAB and the cowling. Keep one thing in mind however.
Van's design obviously went to great lengths to come up with a design
that had very few failure modes that would allow something to get
injested into the engine. (Most likely this is the primary motivation
for the magnet) If you go putting hinges, more rivets, springs or heaven
forbid a screw you run the risk of some piece of the mechanism breaking
off and going into the engine. Van's design is a piece of rubber a
couple of plates and a magnet. It is beautifully simple.
Let's do some math real quick. Atmospheric pressure is 14.696 at sea
level standard conditions. This is the max DP (diff pressure) that you
could have accross this door. At 20,000 ft pressure is about 7 psi.
This is unlikely since the engine is not leak proof and the plug won't
be either so let's say that the differential is 0.5 psi jsut to be
really conservative. The door is about 5 to 6 square inches in size
(I'm going from memory). If you have a 0.5 psi DP accross that door
you'll have 2.5 to 3 pounds of force trying to open it. That magnet
ain't holdn' 2 pounds. The door will open. I suspect there is more
chance of you're cable coming loose, or getting stuck than this simple
mechanism failing.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Panel
http://www.myrv7.com
Charlie England wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>thomas a. sargent wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>>
>>Those of you with an IO-360 with vertical induction are aware of the
>>filter bypass kit that Van's supplies. It seems a bit hokey, using a
>>magnet to hold a hinged flap closed against the induction vacuum. If
>>the FAB inlet gets plugged, the air presure drops enough to pull the
>>flap open, is the theory. I don't have a lot of confidence in this
>>scheme. The magnet can weaken (from being heated, for instance). I have
>>no control over it (although that could be an advantage in some cases.)
>>
>>I've also seen Van's filter bypass kit for the horizontal induction
>>IO-360. That kit uses a control cable to allow the pilot to pull
>>(rotate) the bypass door open/closed. I like that better. It's more
>>positive. I'd like to do the same for my vertical induction system.
>>The door would have to go in the bottom center of the FAB - that same
>>place that Van's bypass kit places it - so it would make an opening in
>>the center of the cylindrical filter, that is, the filtered air side.
>>
>>The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
>>cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
>>I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
>>the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
>>
>>The door design is really the same as the one Van's uses on the Horiz.
>>Induction bypass kit, I would just move it from the aft section of the
>>FAB to the bottom of the FAB. The door would not have a hinge, but
>>would rotate around a bolt that would be vertically oriented. In other
>>words, the door would be in a horizontal plane and would remain in that
>>plane as it was opened, or perhaps I should say, slid out of the way. I
>>think if there is 1/2" or so of space, I could make something that would
>>work.
>>
>>Comments?
>>--
>>Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Go with what makes you comfortable, but be aware that spring loaded
>alternate air doors aren't exactly rare in 'factory' a/c with fuel
>injection. If the failure mode of an automatic alternate air system is
>relatively benign, it can be used without adding another item to the
>pilot's work load during stressful times.
>
>If undetected opening concerns you, why not just add a switch to the
>door & a light on the panel? It will be much lighter than a control
>cable & a lot easier to install.
>
>Charlie
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | List - 42 messages!!!!!! 12/10/04 |
--> RV-List message posted by: don522@webtv.net (Don McCallister)
Someone is letting their message run and run and run and run - won't
come up for me-waited 10 minutes - gave up!!!
Do Not archive--
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bluecavu@aol.com
For those wanting on-board fire supression -for either the firewall forward
or the cockpit, AFFF is definitely the way to go.
I have experience testing these systems in a plane -we used an old
dilapidated homebuilt biplane and plumbed a system into it using one
electrically-discharged bottle and two nozzles (more nozzles can be added -along
with
selector/distribution valves for that matter, if you want to get creative and complex).
One nozzle in the cowl area just behind the spinner and above the engine in
the pressure side of the baffeling -aimed along the top of the engine, the other
at the top of the firewall aft inside the cockpit -aimed to disperse over
most everything firewall aft. Granted, we did this test stationary on the
ground, but we lit one heck of a gasoline/oil fire in the cowling and had a guy
sitting in the cockpit blow the bottle. The AFFF quickly put out the fire with
an
impressive WOOSH and a lot of steam, and then continued to spray and dribble
out the cowl for another few minutes (at the same time continuing to spray in
the cockpit). We didn't light a fire in the cockpit (for obvious reasons) but
studied where the AFFF went... and like in the cowl area, it coated almost
*everything* - 'pilot' included. Now for those of you unfamiliar with AFFF -it's
not like the sudsy bubbles you see in a tub full of bubble bath. It's
essentially WATER. Yup, WATER... but with WETTING AGENTS that actually make the
water
wetter (if you can imagine that) so that it will coat everything very
effectively and prevent it's evaporating as quickly. Imagine water with a lot of
dish
soap dissolved in it -soapy water -not really sudsy at all.
I was convinced this was the way to go. Coverage in the engine compartment in
such a way as that that the air going through the cowling would HELP to
disperse the stuff throughout the firewall forward area. It comes out the nozzle
in
a very fine mist at considerable volume. The air would blow the stuff around
and coat *everything*. As for the cockpit -great coverage there too. In the
event that the fire wasn't contained to the engine compartment (unlikely, I
think after witnessing the test) due to penetrating the firewall somehow (easier
than you think) then the pilot and his/her area were pre-coated so at least the
fire couldn't spread there. AND if the fire started in the pasenger
compartment, then you had coverage -and discharging the system on the engine at
the
same time also wouldn't hurt it anymore than flying through a sudden rain shower.
Another thing. This stuff is as harmless as soapy water -it won't hurt your
plane or engine (avionics? -well -imagine misting them with soapy water -one
area where halon excells). It's not toxic (although I wouldn't want to drink it)
it's no more corrosive than soapy water, and it's non-abrasive (the other bad
thing about dry chemical is that it's abrasive as hell and it will trash your
engine if it gets in the intake, as well as trashing anything electrical).
One thing about AFFF I don't know is whether or not it would sting your eyes
if it got in them (like soap) -I think it might, but I'm not sure.
As far as putting fires out goes, what you want to do is seal off the
combustibles from the air, and to a lesser extent cool the area to prevent
reignition. Halon does this by dispersing the oxygen with an inert gas essentially,
and
acting as a refrigerant. After the one shot dissipates there is NO residual
protection. It's a gas and blows away. You also can't breath it (it's not that
it's poison nesessarily -it's just not oxygen -and it momentarily disperses all
the oxygen in the area). Dry chemical has some residual coating action and it
comes out sorta cold -but AFFF is the best. It coats and stays wet for quite
awhile -preventing any reignition.
I'm sold on the stuff. Is it in my plane? No. Not yet. I still think fires
are unlikely enough that I've been taking my chances so far. It's also not a
light system and I'm a weight freak. It's essentially like carrying an aluminum
two liter bottle of water around all the time along with some plumbing and
nozzles. Several pounds, I've forgotten just how much exactly... And I'm concerned
about every pound. But I'm still thinking about it. Give me $400 dollars and
tell me that I can only spend it on a fire suppression system for my plane
-and I'd do it.
Ideally a small hand-held halon bottle, and an AFFF plumbed-in system. Best
all-round scheme if you hate the idea of fire.
Scott
N4ZW
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
I second Dan's comments.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002
>Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 08:10:27 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
>
>The ACS2002 is the most useful item in my panel. There's no other display
>like it -- not even GRT or Dynon's new engine monitor. All parameters
>being
>monitored have numeric and graphical displays. No paging necessary. It's
>incredibly intuitive, and the voice warnings simply work great!
>
>I highly recommend it! Go fly with somebody who has one, and you'll be
>sold.
>
>do not archive
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (305 hours)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
> >
> > Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of
>ACS
> > 2002.
> > PROS & CONS and who has best price.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Doug Preston
> > RV7A
> > N196VA
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing on my RV6-A
that is powered by 360-A1A.
This cooler is over size and was purchased to make sure I have no cooling
problems this spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly soon. The problem
is this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle and would take a
lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing etc. I called Van's and
they said put it on the firewall as this cooler would handle an 0-540!!
Has anybody been able to cool an RV with a firewall mounted cooler? Seems
very few people do it but Van's swears that is where all factory demo aircraft
coolers are mounted and no problems?
I will be using an enclosed plenum and this cooler should be up to the
task from what I have found in the archives.
Real
close now, Tom in Ohio
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin"
> <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
> List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing
> on my RV6-A that is powered by 360-A1A. This cooler is over size and
> was purchased to make sure I have no cooling problems this
> spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly soon. The problem is
> this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle and would take a
> lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing etc. I called
> Van's and they said put it on the firewall as this cooler would
> handle an 0-540!! Has anybody been able to cool an RV with a firewall
> mounted cooler? Seems very few people do it but Van's swears that is
> where all factory demo aircraft coolers are mounted and no problems?
> I will be using an enclosed plenum and this cooler should be up to
> the task from what I have found in the archives. Real close now, Tom
> in Ohio
>
Tom, there are many RV's in our area with firewall mounted coolers
including my O-320 powered RV-6:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/engine2.html
Matter of fact, my cooler installation overcools most of the time. The
only RV's we have seen in our experience that needed the baffle mount
were the IO-360-powered planes.
Sam Buchanan
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Tom,
I have a large SW cooler on the firewall of my RV-7A with the 200 hp IO-360.
It does the job just fine, although I wouldn't want one any smaller. It is
mounted at about a 35 or 40 degree angle to the firewall using 3/4 x 1/8
aluminum angle. The hoses come out the inboard side. One of the Vans hoses (from
the fwf kit) worked, but I had to fabricate the other hose. Air is fed with a
4 inch scat off the right side of the baffle. Be sure to miss the dipstick
tube! I built an aluminum shroud of .032 alclad which came out real nice. Got
the idea from Greg Hale's RV-8, but did it in sheet metal instead of
fiberglass.
How far are you from Kokomo IN?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
In a message dated 12/11/04 4:37:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
tcervin@valkyrie.net writes:
> List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing on my
> RV6-A that is powered by 360-A1A.
> This cooler is over size and was purchased to make sure I have no
> cooling problems this spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly soon. The
> problem is this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle and would take
a
> lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing etc. I called Van's and
> they said put it on the firewall as this cooler would handle an 0-540!!
> Has anybody been able to cool an RV with a firewall mounted cooler?
> Seems very few people do it but Van's swears that is where all factory demo
> aircraft coolers are mounted and no problems?
> I will be using an enclosed plenum and this cooler should be up to the
> task from what I have found in the archives.
> Real close now, Tom in Ohio
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
Oil temperatures have never been a problem on my -8 with the oil cooler
mounted on the firewall. I even have one of Van's cheep ones. I built a
little plenum that mounts to the cooler and comes up about four inches to
make sure all the fins get hit by the incoming air. I also used a 3" hose.
I think that many people who have problems with the cooler on the firewall
is because they do not get all the cooler tubes in the air stream. If you
use Van's installation kit, you will have problems.
Jim
James Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
100+ Hours
570-842-4057
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler Location
> --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan <sbuc@hiwaay.net>
>
> Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote:
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin"
>> <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>>
>> List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing
>> on my RV6-A that is powered by 360-A1A. This cooler is over size and
>> was purchased to make sure I have no cooling problems this
>> spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly soon. The problem is
>> this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle and would take a
>> lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing etc. I called
>> Van's and they said put it on the firewall as this cooler would
>> handle an 0-540!! Has anybody been able to cool an RV with a firewall
>> mounted cooler? Seems very few people do it but Van's swears that is
>> where all factory demo aircraft coolers are mounted and no problems?
>> I will be using an enclosed plenum and this cooler should be up to
>> the task from what I have found in the archives. Real close now, Tom
>> in Ohio
>>
>
>
> Tom, there are many RV's in our area with firewall mounted coolers
> including my O-320 powered RV-6:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/engine2.html
>
> Matter of fact, my cooler installation overcools most of the time. The
> only RV's we have seen in our experience that needed the baffle mount
> were the IO-360-powered planes.
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel gauge sdjustment Question? Aerospace logic.. |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
My gages are reasonably accurate at the low end (i.e., near empty), but are
about two gallons low at the full end. That is, all fuel levels between 14
gallons and 16 gallons look like a full tank on the fuel gage. This happens
for the simple reason that the float hits the top of the tank before it is
full. My senders are in the same location as yours. What I should have
said in my previous post is that the fuel gage is only for looks. I have an
EI fuel flow computer that provides incredibly accurate data on all things
fuel related. I can predict the amount of fuel the line will pump into my
-4 within 0.1 gallons. When flying an experimental, for which there is no
"verified" POH, the computer is invaluable. My next plane will have one for
each tank.
Good luck,
Dean
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel gauge sdjustment Question? Aerospace logic..
--> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
<sisson@consolidated.net>
Dean Pichon wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon@msn.com>
>
> My recommendation would be to purchase a programmable gage compatible
with
> your float-type senders. With such a gage, you can fill your tanks one
> gallon at a time and remove most of the non-linearity of the float-type
> sender. I have an Aerospace Logic gage that works with the senders
provided
> with my -4 kit. I believe EI may make a programmable gage, as well.
> Removing a non-leaking tank from an RV seems like more agravation than
> anyone needs.
>
> Regards,
> Dean
Dean.
I have one of those gages but I have not started calibration yet.
How close are your readings when you are approaching the filled position,
but
still about 4 or 5 gallons down? I have my float and sensor mounted on the
rear
tank Bulkhead in the second rib bay from the root. It seems like the float
is
going to top out before the tank is full. That is the reason for the
question.
Down on the bottom end, it starts moving at a little over a half gallon, so
this should present no problem.
That is a far as I went so far. Tomorrow, I am hoping to start the
calibration
process. It seems very simple but some of the instructions seem to be
written a
little more complicated than needed. I am sure that after I do one tank, it
will
be a lot simpler..
Phil, in Illinois, Sure wish I had an RV....... (someday)
Do not archive
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: N174TY Flies! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 12/10/04 10:05:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
jacklockamy@verizon.net writes:
> First flight was .9 hours. Tomorrow should be a repeat of the gorgeous WX
> here in Camarillo, CA. Hope to put a few more hours on tomorrow. We got a
> 25 hr fly-off period so we only have 24.1 hours to go.
>
> As Paul Rosales says... "keep pounding those rivets!". What a great
> airplane!
>
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> -7A FWF
> N174JL reserved
>
>
Congratulations Jack! Now I know you're excited, but really, FWF, N174JL
reserved? When are you going to get it registered?
Do not archive.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July -- still a little excited too!)
Message 18
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| Subject: | Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
Anyone out there that has been through the wing fairing fitup that can
answer some questions about it. I've searched the archives and every
photo rich builder website I could find, but still need some info before
making the final trim. My pre-CAD drawings and non-pre punched parts
builder's manual don't give many hints. (That kind of dates my project,
doesn't it.)
I have the fairings fit and drilled to my RV-6A wings. My questions are:
1. What should the fairing to fuselage gap be in order to hold the
rubber seal in place without any adhesive? (I am not planning on using
adhesive, unless the seal does not stay put in flight.)
2. The rubber seal looks like a lower case letter h in cross section.
When looking at it as a letter h, which way does the top of the leg on
the h get bent when installed, to the left or the right? (I think I
know this one, just checking my answer. :-) )
3. What is the easiest way to install the seal? Put the seal over the
fairing and screw the fairing in place, or screw the fairing in place
first and then slide the seal in. (Some previous posts on this. Most
seem to install both at the same time.)
Thanks,
Steve Allison
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
Steve, Fit the fairing nice and tight. If you don't it'll 'cave in' anytime
you lean on it or pressure is put on it. About 3/8's of an inch if I remember
correctly.....whatever it takes to give you a little 'curl' when it's in place.
Yes, put the seal on the fairing, snug it up against the fuse...curling the
edge, then put your screws in.
Flat side goes out.
Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
Anyone out there that has been through the wing fairing fitup that can
answer some questions about it. I've searched the archives and every
photo rich builder website I could find, but still need some info before
making the final trim. My pre-CAD drawings and non-pre punched parts
builder's manual don't give many hints. (That kind of dates my project,
doesn't it.)
I have the fairings fit and drilled to my RV-6A wings. My questions are:
1. What should the fairing to fuselage gap be in order to hold the
rubber seal in place without any adhesive? (I am not planning on using
adhesive, unless the seal does not stay put in flight.)
2. The rubber seal looks like a lower case letter h in cross section.
When looking at it as a letter h, which way does the top of the leg on
the h get bent when installed, to the left or the right? (I think I
know this one, just checking my answer. :-) )
3. What is the easiest way to install the seal? Put the seal over the
fairing and screw the fairing in place, or screw the fairing in place
first and then slide the seal in. (Some previous posts on this. Most
seem to install both at the same time.)
Thanks,
Steve Allison
Message 20
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--> RV-List message posted by: "davercook" <davercook@prodigy.net>
Listers
Does the side skirts need any sort of weather-strip adhesive next to the Plexiglas
for waterproofing and if so what did you use?
Thanks
Dave Cook RV-6 Canopy
Message 21
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| Subject: | Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> Steve, Fit the fairing nice and tight. If you don't it'll
> 'cave in' anytime
> you lean on it or pressure is put on it. About 3/8's of an
> inch if I remember
> correctly.....whatever it takes to give you a little 'curl'
> when it's in place. Yes, put the seal on the fairing, snug it
> up against the fuse...curling the
> edge, then put your screws in.
> Flat side goes out.
I think 3/8" is too much. Take the strip, put it on a little strip of .032
and hold it up against some surface until it looks like it is a quarter
round. Measure and let 'er rip. If I had to guess, I'd say 1/8", but
measure it.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 561 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: RGray67968@aol.com
Yeah scratch that. A fat 8th of an inch is probably closer.
Whatever it takes to give you a nice tight fit with a little curl in the seal.
Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
> Steve, Fit the fairing nice and tight. If you don't it'll
> 'cave in' anytime
> you lean on it or pressure is put on it. About 3/8's of an
> inch if I remember
> correctly.....whatever it takes to give you a little 'curl'
> when it's in place. Yes, put the seal on the fairing, snug it
> up against the fuse...curling the
> edge, then put your screws in.
> Flat side goes out.
I think 3/8" is too much. Take the strip, put it on a little strip of .032
and hold it up against some surface until it looks like it is a quarter
round. Measure and let 'er rip. If I had to guess, I'd say 1/8", but
measure it.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 561 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Good post Bryan. Here are some figures on RV accidents since 1/1/99. It's easy
to see that there is considerable opportunity for numerous payouts.
RV acidents from 1/1/99 to present
RV Model Accidents Fatality involved Fatality %
3 5 0 4.10%
4 30 8 24.59%
6 28 4 22.95%
6a 39 12 31.97%
7 0 0 0.00%
7a 2 1 1.64%
8 9 3 7.38%
8a 4 1 3.28%
9 0 0 0.00%
9a 5 0 4.10%
122 29
Tri-gear 49 14
Tail Wheel 71 15
Jerry Calvert
RV6 N296JC
Edmond Ok
----- Original Message -----
From: ninerriveteer
To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:15 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance
Good morning all,
Just sitting here thinking about the insurance topic and started
hitting a few keys on the calculator. According to Vans site there
are 3966 completed RV's. I don't know what the rest of you are
paying for your insurance, but mine is 1800 per year including hull.
That is for a low time pilot in a nosewheel RV.
If all 3966 of us used the same company at the same rate that I pay
it comes out to 7,138,800.00 per year for the insurance company.
With property values so high in the nation now, and medical expenses
skyrocketing it doesn't seem like that much money for a company to
expose itself to so much risk. My wifes uncle and son were killed in
an aircraft accident in 1996 over National Forest were there was no
property damage, just the cleanup of the site and the payout to the
wife. This single accident would have taken about a third of the
moneys collected by the example I gave above. I know rates are high
and it is an awful feeling to write the check, but it is really
pretty amazing that anybody underwrites this product for us.
Sixteen years ago I watched from the back window of the avionics shop
I worked at as a man changed his vacumn pump during a rain, a very
hard rain. Afterwards he did a runup in his tiedown and installed
his cowl. The next day he took off from the airport which is highly
contested by the local community and now has a mall on the approach
and houses on the departure end. On board was his friend, and their
two girlfriends heading off for lunch. Without having a wrench that
would reach those nuts that are so difficult on the pump he just left
two of them loose in trade for not getting such a good soaking. On
climbout all his oil was evacuated and he made a terrible emergency
landing on a house full of Foster Children. Nobody was hurt in the
house, but the two women on board were killed, and his friend later
died in the hospital. The pilot spent the next couple of years being
treated for the burns he sustained in the crash. I don't know what
the payout was to the families of what I call his victims, but I
talked to the Attorneys at Piper about the settlement that he
received. He received two million because his 1969 Lycoming IO360
that was past TBO had a pourous cast on the inside of the case!
Apparently it was demonstrated that his own illegal maintenance
caused the malfunction, but according to the lawyers once a
disfigured person is paraded in front of a jury the payouts are high
and are not always decided on the facts. Human emotion provides
large payouts and the insurance companies have to cover them.
I have friend that had shoulder harnesses installed on his 40 year
old plane that was sold originally with only lap belts. His partner
flew three doctors to Mexico on a flying doctors trip were he buzzed
a village and hit the only tree in the area. My friend was sued
because the shoulder harnesses failed during a high speed contact
with a tree.
The stories go on and on. I'm sure you all have stories like these.
We need to fly safely, and to stop having the accidents that are
preventable. Weather and fuel are issues that we can make a real
impact on as a group. I have an RV-9A, one of about 115 flying to
date, but I haven't checked the actual numbers recently. Of this
small number I know of 4 that have been totaled. One of these was
weather related, and the rest were fuel. Folks, this is the docile
airplane on the Van's offering, the trainer is what I seem to hear
the most, but the accident rate seems very high. I worry about
getting insurance at all in the future based on the high percentage
of aiplanes wrecked.
Mr. Helms, if you are still monitoring this group? When I was
seeking quotes from various sources about three years ago to inquire
about engines choices and coverage I was told that a non aircraft
engine complete firewall forward package was insurable, but if one
company quit offering it a real problem could arise for those opting
for this power source. I was scared back into the Lycoming arena by
the prospect of this happening. Just curious if our friends that
have chosen the other way are in danger of not being able to obtain
insurance in the future. There a probably many on the group deciding
on power plants at this time whose minds could be set at ease with
their choice if coverage will not be a problem. Also, I'm curious if
rates are set by airframe designation, or if the engine choice
factors into the rates. Put one way, will auto conversions cause the
rates to go up for everybody if the accident rate shows to be higher
than with the recommended engine? Put another way, (One that happens
to be the current truth), since RV-9A accidents with Lycomings are
3:1 over auto conversions will the folks with the conversions get a
better rate?
Regards,
Bryan
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Steve,
The RV-7 plans call for 1/8" clearance and that has worked great for me. I
have no adhesive on the top, and the only one small spot where I used some
3M weatherstrip adhesive is on the very aft inch or two on the bottom, where
it's not really sandwiched tightly.
The method that seemed simple to me (just my 2 cents) was to get the wing
root fairings positioned and drilled and clecoed in the place, and then take
a 1/8" thick piece of whatever, and slide it along the intersection of the
fairing & fuselage side skin, tracing along the fairing as you go. There's
your perfect 1/8" gap mark -- file up to the line and you're done.
Installing the fairing, I put the gap seal on the fairing, trimmed it to
length, then just clecoed the fairing onto the wing (#30 clecos into #8
nutplates). Wiggle it and get the seal where you want it, then put your
screws in, done deal.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (308 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Allison" <stevea@svpal.org>
Subject: RV-List: Wing fairing gap seal
> --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
>
> Anyone out there that has been through the wing fairing fitup that can
> answer some questions about it. I've searched the archives and every
> photo rich builder website I could find, but still need some info before
> making the final trim. My pre-CAD drawings and non-pre punched parts
> builder's manual don't give many hints. (That kind of dates my project,
> doesn't it.)
>
> I have the fairings fit and drilled to my RV-6A wings. My questions are:
>
> 1. What should the fairing to fuselage gap be in order to hold the
> rubber seal in place without any adhesive? (I am not planning on using
> adhesive, unless the seal does not stay put in flight.)
>
> 2. The rubber seal looks like a lower case letter h in cross section.
> When looking at it as a letter h, which way does the top of the leg on
> the h get bent when installed, to the left or the right? (I think I
> know this one, just checking my answer. :-) )
>
> 3. What is the easiest way to install the seal? Put the seal over the
> fairing and screw the fairing in place, or screw the fairing in place
> first and then slide the seal in. (Some previous posts on this. Most
> seem to install both at the same time.)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Allison
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch@msn.com>
Tom,
I mounted this same cooler on my RV-6 behind the #4 cylinder. It is not
that difficult. You will need to make a few alterations, like cut part of
the flange off on one side of the oil cooler. I believe you will have
better results here than on the firewall but decide for yourself after you
see my installation.
Check out the following web page and also look under the RV-7 oil cooler
installation pages for more details. Both airplanes were very similar in
terms of the mods necessary for the oil cooler to fit.
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=87&subpageid=26346&ck
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Cooler Location
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
>
> List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing on
> my RV6-A that is powered by 360-A1A.
> This cooler is over size and was purchased to make sure I have
> no cooling problems this spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly
> soon. The problem is this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle
> and would take a lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing
> etc. I called Van's and they said put it on the firewall as this cooler
> would handle an 0-540!!
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
The data in last post lost the formatting. Here it is again.
RV Model Accidents Fatality Involved Percent
of total accidents %
3 5 0
4.10%
4 30 8
24.59%
6 28 4
22.95%
6a 39 12
31.97%
7 0 0
0%
7a 2 1
1.64 %
8 9 3
7.38%
8a 4 1
3.28%
9 0 0
0%
9a 5 0
4.10%
total 122 29
Tri gear 49 14
Tail wheel 71 15
Jerry Calvert
RV6 N296JC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
> Good post Bryan. Here are some figures on RV accidents since 1/1/99.
It's easy to see that there is considerable opportunity for numerous
payouts.
>
> RV acidents from 1/1/99 to present
>
> RV Model Accidents Fatality involved Fatality %
> 3 5 0 4.10%
> 4 30 8 24.59%
> 6 28 4 22.95%
> 6a 39 12 31.97%
> 7 0 0 0.00%
> 7a 2 1 1.64%
> 8 9 3 7.38%
> 8a 4 1 3.28%
> 9 0 0 0.00%
> 9a 5 0 4.10%
> 122 29
>
>
> Tri-gear 49 14
> Tail Wheel 71 15
>
>
> Jerry Calvert
> RV6 N296JC
> Edmond Ok
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ninerriveteer
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:15 AM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
> Just sitting here thinking about the insurance topic and started
> hitting a few keys on the calculator. According to Vans site there
> are 3966 completed RV's. I don't know what the rest of you are
> paying for your insurance, but mine is 1800 per year including hull.
> That is for a low time pilot in a nosewheel RV.
>
> If all 3966 of us used the same company at the same rate that I pay
> it comes out to 7,138,800.00 per year for the insurance company.
> With property values so high in the nation now, and medical expenses
> skyrocketing it doesn't seem like that much money for a company to
> expose itself to so much risk. My wifes uncle and son were killed in
> an aircraft accident in 1996 over National Forest were there was no
> property damage, just the cleanup of the site and the payout to the
> wife. This single accident would have taken about a third of the
> moneys collected by the example I gave above. I know rates are high
> and it is an awful feeling to write the check, but it is really
> pretty amazing that anybody underwrites this product for us.
>
> Sixteen years ago I watched from the back window of the avionics shop
> I worked at as a man changed his vacumn pump during a rain, a very
> hard rain. Afterwards he did a runup in his tiedown and installed
> his cowl. The next day he took off from the airport which is highly
> contested by the local community and now has a mall on the approach
> and houses on the departure end. On board was his friend, and their
> two girlfriends heading off for lunch. Without having a wrench that
> would reach those nuts that are so difficult on the pump he just left
> two of them loose in trade for not getting such a good soaking. On
> climbout all his oil was evacuated and he made a terrible emergency
> landing on a house full of Foster Children. Nobody was hurt in the
> house, but the two women on board were killed, and his friend later
> died in the hospital. The pilot spent the next couple of years being
> treated for the burns he sustained in the crash. I don't know what
> the payout was to the families of what I call his victims, but I
> talked to the Attorneys at Piper about the settlement that he
> received. He received two million because his 1969 Lycoming IO360
> that was past TBO had a pourous cast on the inside of the case!
> Apparently it was demonstrated that his own illegal maintenance
> caused the malfunction, but according to the lawyers once a
> disfigured person is paraded in front of a jury the payouts are high
> and are not always decided on the facts. Human emotion provides
> large payouts and the insurance companies have to cover them.
>
> I have friend that had shoulder harnesses installed on his 40 year
> old plane that was sold originally with only lap belts. His partner
> flew three doctors to Mexico on a flying doctors trip were he buzzed
> a village and hit the only tree in the area. My friend was sued
> because the shoulder harnesses failed during a high speed contact
> with a tree.
>
> The stories go on and on. I'm sure you all have stories like these.
> We need to fly safely, and to stop having the accidents that are
> preventable. Weather and fuel are issues that we can make a real
> impact on as a group. I have an RV-9A, one of about 115 flying to
> date, but I haven't checked the actual numbers recently. Of this
> small number I know of 4 that have been totaled. One of these was
> weather related, and the rest were fuel. Folks, this is the docile
> airplane on the Van's offering, the trainer is what I seem to hear
> the most, but the accident rate seems very high. I worry about
> getting insurance at all in the future based on the high percentage
> of aiplanes wrecked.
>
> Mr. Helms, if you are still monitoring this group? When I was
> seeking quotes from various sources about three years ago to inquire
> about engines choices and coverage I was told that a non aircraft
> engine complete firewall forward package was insurable, but if one
> company quit offering it a real problem could arise for those opting
> for this power source. I was scared back into the Lycoming arena by
> the prospect of this happening. Just curious if our friends that
> have chosen the other way are in danger of not being able to obtain
> insurance in the future. There a probably many on the group deciding
> on power plants at this time whose minds could be set at ease with
> their choice if coverage will not be a problem. Also, I'm curious if
> rates are set by airframe designation, or if the engine choice
> factors into the rates. Put one way, will auto conversions cause the
> rates to go up for everybody if the accident rate shows to be higher
> than with the recommended engine? Put another way, (One that happens
> to be the current truth), since RV-9A accidents with Lycomings are
> 3:1 over auto conversions will the folks with the conversions get a
> better rate?
>
> Regards,
> Bryan
>
>
Message 27
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "" <tx_jayhawk@excite.com>
All,
I'm preparing to move (I have the tail and wings complet), and I have been reading
the archives on how best to do it. I plan on moving the wings in the cradle,
but I am struggling with how best to pack the tail surfaces.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Scott haskins
www.scottsrv7a.com
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks@aol.com
I used a thin bead of Butyl Rubber from a caulking cartridge to seal between
the canopy plexi and the metal skirt.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
Message 29
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I used Lexel on mine. Seems to be doing fine. Often seen at the local
hardware stores.
http://sashco.com/home_improvement/products/lexel.shtml
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8, 44.4 hrs.
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: davercook [mailto:davercook@prodigy.net]
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 8:08 PM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: Canopy Question
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "davercook" <davercook@prodigy.net>
>
> Listers
>
> Does the side skirts need any sort of weather-strip adhesive
> next to the Plexiglas for waterproofing and if so what did you use?
> Thanks
> Dave Cook RV-6 Canopy
Message 30
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|
| Subject: | Re: Oil Cooler Location |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
Dan, I am less than 2 miles from 10G (Holmes Co) and 80 miles NW of
Columbus, Oh.
Do not archive
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler Location
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
> Tom,
>
> I have a large SW cooler on the firewall of my RV-7A with the 200 hp
> IO-360.
> It does the job just fine, although I wouldn't want one any smaller. It
> is
> mounted at about a 35 or 40 degree angle to the firewall using 3/4 x 1/8
> aluminum angle. The hoses come out the inboard side. One of the Vans
> hoses (from
> the fwf kit) worked, but I had to fabricate the other hose. Air is fed
> with a
> 4 inch scat off the right side of the baffle. Be sure to miss the
> dipstick
> tube! I built an aluminum shroud of .032 alclad which came out real nice.
> Got
> the idea from Greg Hale's RV-8, but did it in sheet metal instead of
> fiberglass.
>
> How far are you from Kokomo IN?
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
> N766DH (Flying since July)
>
>
> In a message dated 12/11/04 4:37:27 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> tcervin@valkyrie.net writes:
>
>> List, I have a Stewart Warner 8432-R oil cooler that I am installing on
>> my
>> RV6-A that is powered by 360-A1A.
>> This cooler is over size and was purchased to make sure I have no
>> cooling problems this spring.....yes we are painted and ready to fly
>> soon. The
>> problem is this cooler is a tight fit on the left rear baffle and would
>> take a
>> lot of work to install....braces.....oil line routing etc. I called Van's
>> and
>> they said put it on the firewall as this cooler would handle an 0-540!!
>> Has anybody been able to cool an RV with a firewall mounted cooler?
>> Seems very few people do it but Van's swears that is where all factory
>> demo
>> aircraft coolers are mounted and no problems?
>> I will be using an enclosed plenum and this cooler should be up to
>> the
>> task from what I have found in the archives.
>> Real close now, Tom in Ohio
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin@valkyrie.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
> Good post Bryan. Here are some figures on RV accidents since 1/1/99.
> It's easy to see that there is considerable opportunity for numerous
> payouts.
>
> RV acidents from 1/1/99 to present
>
> RV Model Accidents Fatality involved Fatality %
> 3 5 0 4.10%
> 4 30 8 24.59%
> 6 28 4 22.95%
> 6a 39 12 31.97%
> 7 0 0 0.00%
> 7a 2 1 1.64%
> 8 9 3 7.38%
> 8a 4 1 3.28%
> 9 0 0 0.00%
> 9a 5 0 4.10%
> 122 29
>
>
> Tri-gear 49 14
> Tail Wheel 71 15
>
>
> Jerry Calvert
> RV6 N296JC
> Edmond Ok
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ninerriveteer
> To: vansairforce@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 11:15 AM
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Insurance
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
> Just sitting here thinking about the insurance topic and started
> hitting a few keys on the calculator. According to Vans site there
> are 3966 completed RV's. I don't know what the rest of you are
> paying for your insurance, but mine is 1800 per year including hull.
> That is for a low time pilot in a nosewheel RV.
>
> If all 3966 of us used the same company at the same rate that I pay
> it comes out to 7,138,800.00 per year for the insurance company.
> With property values so high in the nation now, and medical expenses
> skyrocketing it doesn't seem like that much money for a company to
> expose itself to so much risk. My wifes uncle and son were killed in
> an aircraft accident in 1996 over National Forest were there was no
> property damage, just the cleanup of the site and the payout to the
> wife. This single accident would have taken about a third of the
> moneys collected by the example I gave above. I know rates are high
> and it is an awful feeling to write the check, but it is really
> pretty amazing that anybody underwrites this product for us.
>
> Sixteen years ago I watched from the back window of the avionics shop
> I worked at as a man changed his vacumn pump during a rain, a very
> hard rain. Afterwards he did a runup in his tiedown and installed
> his cowl. The next day he took off from the airport which is highly
> contested by the local community and now has a mall on the approach
> and houses on the departure end. On board was his friend, and their
> two girlfriends heading off for lunch. Without having a wrench that
> would reach those nuts that are so difficult on the pump he just left
> two of them loose in trade for not getting such a good soaking. On
> climbout all his oil was evacuated and he made a terrible emergency
> landing on a house full of Foster Children. Nobody was hurt in the
> house, but the two women on board were killed, and his friend later
> died in the hospital. The pilot spent the next couple of years being
> treated for the burns he sustained in the crash. I don't know what
> the payout was to the families of what I call his victims, but I
> talked to the Attorneys at Piper about the settlement that he
> received. He received two million because his 1969 Lycoming IO360
> that was past TBO had a pourous cast on the inside of the case!
> Apparently it was demonstrated that his own illegal maintenance
> caused the malfunction, but according to the lawyers once a
> disfigured person is paraded in front of a jury the payouts are high
> and are not always decided on the facts. Human emotion provides
> large payouts and the insurance companies have to cover them.
>
> I have friend that had shoulder harnesses installed on his 40 year
> old plane that was sold originally with only lap belts. His partner
> flew three doctors to Mexico on a flying doctors trip were he buzzed
> a village and hit the only tree in the area. My friend was sued
> because the shoulder harnesses failed during a high speed contact
> with a tree.
>
> The stories go on and on. I'm sure you all have stories like these.
> We need to fly safely, and to stop having the accidents that are
> preventable. Weather and fuel are issues that we can make a real
> impact on as a group. I have an RV-9A, one of about 115 flying to
> date, but I haven't checked the actual numbers recently. Of this
> small number I know of 4 that have been totaled. One of these was
> weather related, and the rest were fuel. Folks, this is the docile
> airplane on the Van's offering, the trainer is what I seem to hear
> the most, but the accident rate seems very high. I worry about
> getting insurance at all in the future based on the high percentage
> of aiplanes wrecked.
>
> Mr. Helms, if you are still monitoring this group? When I was
> seeking quotes from various sources about three years ago to inquire
> about engines choices and coverage I was told that a non aircraft
> engine complete firewall forward package was insurable, but if one
> company quit offering it a real problem could arise for those opting
> for this power source. I was scared back into the Lycoming arena by
> the prospect of this happening. Just curious if our friends that
> have chosen the other way are in danger of not being able to obtain
> insurance in the future. There a probably many on the group deciding
> on power plants at this time whose minds could be set at ease with
> their choice if coverage will not be a problem. Also, I'm curious if
> rates are set by airframe designation, or if the engine choice
> factors into the rates. Put one way, will auto conversions cause the
> rates to go up for everybody if the accident rate shows to be higher
> than with the recommended engine? Put another way, (One that happens
> to be the current truth), since RV-9A accidents with Lycomings are
> 3:1 over auto conversions will the folks with the conversions get a
> better rate?
>
> Regards,
> Bryan
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wing fairing gap seal |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jim Oke <wjoke@shaw.ca>
Steve;
1. Others have suggested 1/8" but I would tend (based on my experience) to
go a bit wider, maybe 5/32" or even 3/16". The rubber strip is a bit stiff
to try and form a 90 deg fillet in 1/8". Better yet, use some scrap .025 and
experiment a little.
2. Top of the h gets bent to the left or flat side goes out.
3. I use some contact cement to fastener it to the strip and then worked
from front to back installing screws as I went. (Clecoes might help too.)
Depending on the surface of the fuselage and how you clean the rubber, it
may be quite resistant to moving. A smear of grease, soapy water, vaseline
or similar will help the strip "slide" down into place.
There are a few shots of my fairing strip install at
http://www.vansairforce.org/projects/okej/ - scroll about 90% of the way
down. A notch to go around the gear leg will be needed on a -6A.
Happy building - sounds like you are close to the end.
Cheers, Jim Oke
RV-6A, C-FIZM
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Allison" <stevea@svpal.org>
Subject: RV-List: Wing fairing gap seal
> --> RV-List message posted by: Steve Allison <stevea@svpal.org>
>
> Anyone out there that has been through the wing fairing fitup that can
> answer some questions about it. I've searched the archives and every
> photo rich builder website I could find, but still need some info before
> making the final trim. My pre-CAD drawings and non-pre punched parts
> builder's manual don't give many hints. (That kind of dates my project,
> doesn't it.)
>
> I have the fairings fit and drilled to my RV-6A wings. My questions are:
>
> 1. What should the fairing to fuselage gap be in order to hold the
> rubber seal in place without any adhesive? (I am not planning on using
> adhesive, unless the seal does not stay put in flight.)
>
> 2. The rubber seal looks like a lower case letter h in cross section.
> When looking at it as a letter h, which way does the top of the leg on
> the h get bent when installed, to the left or the right? (I think I
> know this one, just checking my answer. :-) )
>
> 3. What is the easiest way to install the seal? Put the seal over the
> fairing and screw the fairing in place, or screw the fairing in place
> first and then slide the seal in. (Some previous posts on this. Most
> seem to install both at the same time.)
>
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Allison
>
>
>
Message 33
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--> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com
Wow, Dan, what a super web site. I hadn't visited it in a while and am
amazed at how it has grown. I have bookmarked this as "must-read".
Personally, I am also leaning toward polished, but am getting scared by
some of the posted horror stories. What I will probably do is fly it for
a while unpainted and unpolished and see just how bad it is. If
reflections are real bad, I will paint just enough to eliminate the
problem areas, then polish the rest.
I don't know if you are old enough to remember WW2 aircraft. These were
all unpainted due to the necessity of rapid production and to hold costs
down. They did, however, paint the top of the cowl from the wind screen
forward.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (giving new meaning to the term
slow-build)
http://www.rvproject.com
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