Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:58 AM - Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to oranges (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
2. 07:17 AM - Riveting LE To Spar (Jamie Painter)
3. 07:36 AM - To Quick Build or Not (Valovich, Paul)
4. 07:39 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Charlie Kuss)
5. 07:54 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Dave Figgins)
6. 07:57 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Dale Mitchell)
7. 08:00 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Scott VanArtsdalen)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: RV-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 12/20/04 Carb Ice (PSPRV6A@aol.com)
9. 08:06 AM - Re: Cold/Lean Cylinders (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
10. 08:09 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Dwight Frye)
11. 08:18 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Charlie Kuss)
12. 08:22 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Konrad L. Werner)
13. 08:24 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Paul Rice)
14. 08:33 AM - Re: Re: Cold/Lean Cylinders (Scott Bilinski)
15. 08:35 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
16. 08:44 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Dave Figgins)
17. 08:47 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (James H Nelson)
18. 08:52 AM - friendly reminder (Evan and Megan Johnson)
19. 08:54 AM - Kips faa test (Evan and Megan Johnson)
20. 09:01 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (BRUCE GRAY)
21. 09:41 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Charlie Kuss)
22. 09:41 AM - Re: Kips faa test (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
23. 09:56 AM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (Kathleen (rv7))
24. 09:58 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Dave Figgins)
25. 10:25 AM - Re: Mags Crossed (Hal Kempthorne)
26. 11:00 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
27. 12:36 PM - Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) (Bill Dube)
28. 12:37 PM - Re:Firesleeve: Sealing ends (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
29. 12:55 PM - Re: Re:Firesleeve: Sealing ends (Larry Bowen)
30. 03:01 PM - Anywhere Map Web Site Attack (John)
31. 03:30 PM - Re: Anywhere Map Web Site Attack (Scott Vanartsdalen)
32. 04:25 PM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Christopher Stone)
33. 05:04 PM - Re: To Quick Build or Not ()
34. 05:31 PM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Charlie Kuss)
35. 05:31 PM - Re: Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) (Charlie Kuss)
36. 05:36 PM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Charlie Kuss)
37. 06:05 PM - Re: To Quick Build or Not (DANBERGERONHAM@aol.com)
38. 06:13 PM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (Richard Scott)
39. 08:01 PM - Off topic - Control Vision web site (Scott VanArtsdalen)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to oranges |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Charlie,
Now that you brought it up, I have an extra inputs on my UBG that I could
use! I'm not sure what kind of inputs your Rocky Mountain MicroMonitor wants,
but thermocouples are typical. Read in your manual about that. Also, a call to
Rocky Mountain may bring an answer about what sensor to use.
I would suggest a thermocouple (type K) like used for egt or cht. You can
make your own with small thermocouple wire. Weld it together with an acetylene
torch and mount it to the diode heat sink. Maybe you can drill a hole in the
heat sink -- say 1/16 inch dia. and use red RTV to glue it in. A small piece
of heat shrink or teflon tubing could be used for insulation. If your monitor
will accept grounded thermocouples, its much easier. You can twist the wires
and crimp them in a terminal. Its still recommended to weld them, but they
will work even if they are not welded. There may also be something available
commercially from a company like Omega Engineering that a search on the inte
rnet might find.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net> oranges
>
> Dan
> Thanks for the great info. I really appreciate the temperature data. As
> an auto mechanic with 30 years experience, I know that toasting the
> rectifier diodes destroys lots of alternators. I have a Rocky Mountain
> MicroMonitor in my 8A project. It allows me to add up to 3 additional
> sensor inputs. It also allows me to set alarm points for all sensors,
> including the "user defined" ones.
> Can you suggest a thermistor which would be small enough and durable enough
> to be used to monitor the rectifier diode heat sink??
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
> >Another alternative would be to sense the temperature of the diode heat
> >sink and
> >light a warning light on the panel if it overheats so that the field
> circuit
> >breaker could be turned off. This would be at about 150 degrees C. Not
> >too many
> >of us have time or resources to do this. But, this may be easier than
> taking
> >the necessary data to assure ourselves that the system is doing the job
> >reliably as installed in our particular airplane.
> >
> >OK, sorry folks, but I had to jump in here. Of course just IMHO.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Dan Hopper
> >RV-7A
> >N766DH (Flying with Van's 60 amp alternator, even though I don't need even
> 35
> >amps!)
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Listers:
Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've already
ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head access isn't a
problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to hit the AN470AD4-X
rivets for what seems like forever to get them to set through the spar, and I
think this is aggravating the problem (it's one thing to get your hand in
there to set the rivet...it's another thing entirely to hold it there for any
extended period of time!) Would you folks that have used both the 2x and the
3x recommend that I upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets
much easier than the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x means.
Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I know that
the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal mechanisms are
heavier or what?
I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except for the
spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as well). It seems
like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the impact from the rivet gun so
the bucking bar is not receiving enough impulse to drive the rivet. I've
tried every combination of air pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
Thanks in advance!
Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
etc, etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
decide to go one way or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Jamie,
I assume that you are referring to driving the rivets between the main
spar and the leading edge's rib rear flanges? I suggest that you make a
copy of my "BINFORD 9000" bucking bar. This will allow you to install the
manufactured head from the front (top as viewed on the jig). The BINFORD
900 is then placed on top of the manufactured head. (Your 1/8" universal
set is installed in the bucking bar first) The person using the rivet gun
can now back rivet the tail using the rivet gun and either the Avery wing
skin back riveting set (#4653) or a C style back riveting set.
You can see how to make the BINFORD 9000 & see how it's used at the SE
Florida RV Builders site on Yahoo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Useful%20Tools/Binford%209000%20bucking%20bar/
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
>Listers:
>
>Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
>Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've already
>ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head access isn't a
>problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to hit the AN470AD4-X
>rivets for what seems like forever to get them to set through the spar, and I
>think this is aggravating the problem (it's one thing to get your hand in
>there to set the rivet...it's another thing entirely to hold it there for any
>extended period of time!) Would you folks that have used both the 2x and the
>3x recommend that I upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets
>much easier than the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x means.
> Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I know
> that
>the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal mechanisms are
>heavier or what?
>
>I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except for the
>spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as well). It seems
>like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the impact from the rivet gun so
>the bucking bar is not receiving enough impulse to drive the rivet. I've
>tried every combination of air pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Jamie
>
>do not archive
>
>--
>Jamie D. Painter
>RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved)
>http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
Charlie
Is this picture posted elsewhere (would need to join the group to view)
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Jamie,
I assume that you are referring to driving the rivets between the main
spar and the leading edge's rib rear flanges? I suggest that you make a copy
of my "BINFORD 9000" bucking bar. This will allow you to install the
manufactured head from the front (top as viewed on the jig). The BINFORD 900
is then placed on top of the manufactured head. (Your 1/8" universal set is
installed in the bucking bar first) The person using the rivet gun can now
back rivet the tail using the rivet gun and either the Avery wing skin back
riveting set (#4653) or a C style back riveting set.
You can see how to make the BINFORD 9000 & see how it's used at the SE
Florida RV Builders site on Yahoo
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Useful%20Tools/Binford%2
09000%20bucking%20bar/
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
>Listers:
>
>Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
>Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've
>already ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head
>access isn't a problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to
>hit the AN470AD4-X rivets for what seems like forever to get them to
>set through the spar, and I think this is aggravating the problem (it's
>one thing to get your hand in there to set the rivet...it's another
>thing entirely to hold it there for any extended period of time!)
>Would you folks that have used both the 2x and the 3x recommend that I
>upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets much easier than
the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x means.
> Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I
>know that the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal
>mechanisms are heavier or what?
>
>I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except
>for the spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as
>well). It seems like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the
>impact from the rivet gun so the bucking bar is not receiving enough
>impulse to drive the rivet. I've tried every combination of air
pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Jamie
>
>do not archive
>
>--
>Jamie D. Painter
>RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell <dfm4290@yahoo.com>
You will still have plenty of stuff to do.
Dale Mitchell RV-8A MN wing
--- "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul"
> <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
>
> I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and
> admittedly have
> contracted a very serious case of the "disease".
> This stuff is great -
> tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I
> have found that the
> actual construction timeline is moving more to the
> right from what I had
> envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff,
> but the time actually
> available to get into the workshop. All the usual
> suspects - job, wife,
> grandsons, personal business, house maintenance,
> community involvement,
> etc, etc.
>
>
> I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit
> or quick build. I
> enjoy the construction process, but am becoming
> increasingly frustrated
> by the time constraints. And somehow I've
> inadvertently let myself
> become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my
> toys" factor also
> enters the equation.
>
>
> I realize that the decision is ultimately mine
> alone, but I'd be
> interested in hearing some thought of others who
> have found themselves
> in a similar situation. What were the deciding
> factors that made you
> decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
> Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover
> the added cost of the
> QB.
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> Booger
>
> Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://my.yahoo.com
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
If you can afford a quick build go that route. I would have if I could
have afforded it.
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
>
>I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
>contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
>tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
>actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
>envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
>available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
>grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
>etc, etc.
>
>
>I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
>enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
>by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
>become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
>enters the equation.
>
>
>I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
>interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
>in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
>decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
>Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
>QB.
>
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>Booger
>
>Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 32 Msgs - 12/20/04 Carb Ice |
--> RV-List message posted by: PSPRV6A@aol.com
Hint: EGT serves as a fairly effective carb ice warning. Cruising with
full lean mixture, slight carb ice will initially not reduce power, as it
richens the mixture enough to offset the slightly reduced airfow. Keeping an eye
on EGT will detect carb ice very early, while there is plenty of heat to
eliminate it.
In 30 years of flying Cessna, all of the SERIOUS carb ice happened on
just one trip! Watching the EGT I have seen very minor ice frequently, which
would normally go unnoticed. A manifold pressure gage is also useful for
detecting minor carb ice.
Paul S. Petersen, Minnetonka MN RV6A 95% done.
Message 9
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| Subject: | RE: Cold/Lean Cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
listers,
Here's what I have found out to date concerning the issues with my engine.
The original problem was that, in cold air, the #3 & #4 cylinders were
already running lean in cruise at the full rich setting. Swapping out the
carb had no effect (stock from AeroSport Power). Checks on the fuel supply
side showed everything in order with no fuel flow restrictions. The airbox
is standard, with a clean air filter. The carb bowl level is within spec's.
This RV-6A is running a 70CM6S9-0 (79) Sensenich prop. The engine is an
O-320D1A with 9:1 compression pistons, with a carb # 10-5217. The carb jet
is a 47-828 with a .093 diam jet.
Swapping out the jet to a P/N 47-773 style jet (different spray bar area)
proved to worsen the engine performance. Besides running very rich (it had a
.107" diam jet size) it did not run smoothly over a wide RPM setting range
without a lot of manual mixture changes. Overall, performance was
unacceptable.
Changing the jet to a P/N 47-828 with a .098" diam jet size has resulted
in both smooth operation over a wide RPM range, and with #3 & #4 cylinders
starting out rich while operating in cold air (15*F OAT, cruise at full
rich). Leaning from this operational point results in all cylinders EGT's
first getting hotter, peaking, then falling as would be expected. Fuel flows
have increased (also expected, as this is a 10% increase in the jet
diameter). There still is a 50*F - 100*F difference in EGT's depending on
the power setting. Leaning to 50*F lean of peak on the hottest cylinder (#3)
still results in #4 cylinder CHT to be considerably lower than the rest (#1
& #2 CHT's are hottest, #3 & #4 CHT's are the coldest, in that order), so
this may still be a plenum air flow issue.
All testing to date has been done at low altitudes (3000' MSL). I'm
expecting fuel flows to be lower at higher altitudes (about the same at they
were with the original P/N 47-828 .093" jet). I'm traveling to Florida next
week, so I'll take some more numbers at higher altitudes as I travel down
the East Coast.
The data still indicates that there is still an issue with fuel sharing
between cylinders, but it's better than it was with the original jet. After
I return from Florida, I'll do some more testing with a P/N 47-828 .100" jet
to see if this helps change the sharing (the original jet will be "reamed"
out from .093" to .100"). This would be close to the #28 drill size others
have found to improve performance......
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye <dwight@openweave.org>
Paul,
I have also been amazed at how challenging it has been to find time to
work on the project (I have two teenagers, an intact marrage, am not
retired, have a busy job, etc, etc). I built my empenage and then ordered
a slow-build wing kit. Partway through it I realized that if I expected
to get this finished before I am 50 (an arbitrary goal, but a good one
if you ask me .. and I am 46 now, so should be able to actually *achieve*
that too, darn it) I would be well served to go QB on the fuse. I did so
and am not sorry I did. I don't know if you'll come to the same view as
I have ... but if I were doing it again, I would likely choose to go QB
all the way.
Now that I am into my QB fuse, I can confirm what another list member said.
You'll have plenty to do to feed that airplane-building-addiction. :)
For you who have the time and ability to get out there and build a slow
build plane in a few short years ... god bless you. You are an inspiration
to the rest of us who struggle to carve out a small handful of hours each
week to push our project forward!
I keep telling myself that as long as I just don't quit I'll have a great
airplane in the end! So ... I get in hours (or minutes) when I can, and
don't grumble about it (too much, at least). :) Thanks goodness I am in
a situation where I can build in my garage. If I had to _travel_ to get to
my project it would go twice again as slowly!
-- Dwight
do not archive
On Tue Dec 21 10:35:44 2004, Valovich, Paul wrote :
>I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
>contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
>tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
>actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
>envisioned.
[ ... snip ... ]
Message 11
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| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Dave
No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what you
want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
>
>Charlie
>Is this picture posted elsewhere (would need to join the group to view)
>Dave
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>Jamie,
> I assume that you are referring to driving the rivets between the main
>spar and the leading edge's rib rear flanges? I suggest that you make a copy
>of my "BINFORD 9000" bucking bar. This will allow you to install the
>manufactured head from the front (top as viewed on the jig). The BINFORD 900
>is then placed on top of the manufactured head. (Your 1/8" universal set is
>installed in the bucking bar first) The person using the rivet gun can now
>back rivet the tail using the rivet gun and either the Avery wing skin back
>riveting set (#4653) or a C style back riveting set.
> You can see how to make the BINFORD 9000 & see how it's used at the SE
>Florida RV Builders site on Yahoo
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SEFlaRVbuilders/files/Useful%20Tools/Binford%2
>09000%20bucking%20bar/
>
>Charlie Kuss
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
> >
> >
> >Listers:
> >
> >Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
> >Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've
> >already ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head
> >access isn't a problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to
> >hit the AN470AD4-X rivets for what seems like forever to get them to
> >set through the spar, and I think this is aggravating the problem (it's
> >one thing to get your hand in there to set the rivet...it's another
> >thing entirely to hold it there for any extended period of time!)
> >Would you folks that have used both the 2x and the 3x recommend that I
> >upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets much easier than
>the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x means.
> > Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I
> >know that the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal
> >mechanisms are heavier or what?
> >
> >I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except
> >for the spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as
> >well). It seems like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the
> >impact from the rivet gun so the bucking bar is not receiving enough
> >impulse to drive the rivet. I've tried every combination of air
>pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
> >
> >Thanks in advance!
> >
> >Jamie
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >--
> >Jamie D. Painter
> >RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org
> >
> >
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Paul,
I would go Q.B. if the money is available!
Once it is finished & flying and you still want to build, then build another one
while enjoying to fly the first one, or help another builder during their construction.
I'd go QB.
Konrad
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Valovich, Paul
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 8:35 AM
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
etc, etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
decide to go one way or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
Seal-Send-Time: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:21:11 -0500
--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Rice" <rice737@msn.com>
Hey Paul,
I have just finished my horiz. stab. and have a QB on order. To me, it
looks like the best way to go if money is not a factor. Like you, time is
more of a constraint then anything else. Like Vans says, for the price of
your time, it is well worth the money. Don't forget that prices go up 1 to 3
percent Jan 1, so if you can pay for it before then you will save a little
money.
Good luck,
Paul RV-8 QB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
>
> I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
> contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
> tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
> actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
> envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
> available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
> grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
> etc, etc.
>
>
> I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
> enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
> by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
> become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
> enters the equation.
>
>
> I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
> interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
> in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
> decide to go one way or the other?
>
>
> Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
> QB.
>
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> Booger
>
> Ridgecrest, CA
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Cold/Lean Cylinders |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
One thing to point out is that the EGT spread is not as important as when
the cylinders will peak relative to each other. Only worry about the spread
after peaking each cylinder and then note the spread. Since I am fuel
injected I dont have your problems but I have gone to great lengths to make
sure all cylinders peak at the same time, not the same temp, this is key.
You can do this but need a flow meter and a EGT on each cylinder. If you
have this, contact me off line and I will explain how to do it.
Has any one experimented with or has seen the "Turbo Tornado" advertised on
TV. I would think that a device like this would greatly help fuel/air
distribution. The scary part is that it must be placed after the carb.
At 11:03 AM 12/21/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR"
><Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
>
>listers,
>
> Here's what I have found out to date concerning the issues with my engine.
>
> The original problem was that, in cold air, the #3 & #4 cylinders were
>already running lean in cruise at the full rich setting. Swapping out the
>carb had no effect (stock from AeroSport Power). Checks on the fuel supply
>side showed everything in order with no fuel flow restrictions. The airbox
>is standard, with a clean air filter. The carb bowl level is within spec's.
>This RV-6A is running a 70CM6S9-0 (79) Sensenich prop. The engine is an
>O-320D1A with 9:1 compression pistons, with a carb # 10-5217. The carb jet
>is a 47-828 with a .093 diam jet.
> Swapping out the jet to a P/N 47-773 style jet (different spray bar area)
>proved to worsen the engine performance. Besides running very rich (it had a
>.107" diam jet size) it did not run smoothly over a wide RPM setting range
>without a lot of manual mixture changes. Overall, performance was
>unacceptable.
> Changing the jet to a P/N 47-828 with a .098" diam jet size has resulted
>in both smooth operation over a wide RPM range, and with #3 & #4 cylinders
>starting out rich while operating in cold air (15*F OAT, cruise at full
>rich). Leaning from this operational point results in all cylinders EGT's
>first getting hotter, peaking, then falling as would be expected. Fuel flows
>have increased (also expected, as this is a 10% increase in the jet
>diameter). There still is a 50*F - 100*F difference in EGT's depending on
>the power setting. Leaning to 50*F lean of peak on the hottest cylinder (#3)
>still results in #4 cylinder CHT to be considerably lower than the rest (#1
>& #2 CHT's are hottest, #3 & #4 CHT's are the coldest, in that order), so
>this may still be a plenum air flow issue.
> All testing to date has been done at low altitudes (3000' MSL). I'm
>expecting fuel flows to be lower at higher altitudes (about the same at they
>were with the original P/N 47-828 .093" jet). I'm traveling to Florida next
>week, so I'll take some more numbers at higher altitudes as I travel down
>the East Coast.
> The data still indicates that there is still an issue with fuel sharing
>between cylinders, but it's better than it was with the original jet. After
>I return from Florida, I'll do some more testing with a P/N 47-828 .100" jet
>to see if this helps change the sharing (the original jet will be "reamed"
>out from .093" to .100"). This would be close to the #28 drill size others
>have found to improve performance......
>
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
chaztuna@adelphia.net writes:
> Dave
> No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what you
> want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> Charlie Kuss
>
Charlie,
I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to see
what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had a honker
bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the ribs to the spar.
Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably help a
lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the rivets.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Message 16
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|
| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
Paul
I have similar issues, just finishing RV7 empennage and am struggling to get
quality time in the garage but cannot at this time afford the entire QB
route so my plan is slow build wings (with QB tanks) and then QB fuselage. I
would have gone QB all the way if money was not an issue. Also from reading
this email list every day there is plenty to do even going the QB route.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement, etc,
etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I enjoy
the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated by the
time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself become 61 years
old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be interested
in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves in a similar
situation. What were the deciding factors that made you decide to go one way
or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Roger,
Go Quick build. I'm in the same world. I run my own company and
time is not always available. I bought the quick build for my RV9 and
I'm very glad I did. The wings are very close to being done when they
arrive. Depending on what you are doing for landing lights, strobes etc.
you can be done with them in a few weeks to a month . Now thats my way
of fast building. The fuselage is different as there is a lot to do in
the front. But again, its a far cry from the "long" way to build. (I'm
61 also and times flys
JIm
Message 18
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| Subject: | friendly reminder |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
Just a quick reminder to those of you out there with suspicious tanks.....Check
regularly for loose sloshing compound! I have had a wave of calls recently from
pilots with loose slosh in their tanks. If you suspect you have this issue,
PLEASE ground your airplane and call me. It just aint worth the risk of starving
your engine at just the wrong time. In cruising the web I have noticed that
there are certified airplanes out there dealing with this issue as well.....I
gotta figure out how to help those guys as well.
Merry Christmas
Happy Christmas (to those on the other side of the planet)
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
Message 19
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
What happened to the Kips practice test on the web? It seems to have disappeared.
I like to quiz myself every once in a while to stay sharp. Is there another
site that does the same?
Thanks....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
Message 20
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| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us@hotmail.com>
Jamie,
I would have imagined your wife was just about ready to hang it up after
that session. The 2X is just making noise if anything. You are correct with
the thicker material, you loose some of your impact force of the gun in turn
not kicking the bucking bar off hard and far enough to create your shop
head.
The other down side of not setting the rivet quick enough is work hardening
the rivet which will make it even more difficult to set the rivet. I to
wondered about the sizes of guns?
Your 3X gun if I am not mistaken has a longer stroke in the barrel so it
will hit harder and slower versus the 2X which has a shorter neck and will
hit softer but faster. Make sense?
My dad told me to get use to the 3X even with the -3 rivets so when it came
time to set the larger ones I had the gun for the job. Hope this helps.
Check out ATS at www.aircraft-tool.com they have an awesome deal on 3x guns
for 30 year celebration event. They even have colors to choose from.
Bruce Gray
RV-8 Wings
#81745
>From: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 10:26:16 -0500 (EST)
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
>
>
>Listers:
>
>Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
>Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've
>already
>ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head access isn't
>a
>problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to hit the AN470AD4-X
>rivets for what seems like forever to get them to set through the spar, and
>I
>think this is aggravating the problem (it's one thing to get your hand in
>there to set the rivet...it's another thing entirely to hold it there for
>any
>extended period of time!) Would you folks that have used both the 2x and
>the
>3x recommend that I upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets
>much easier than the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x
>means.
> Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I know
>that
>the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal mechanisms are
>heavier or what?
>
>I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except for
>the
>spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as well). It
>seems
>like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the impact from the rivet gun
>so
>the bucking bar is not receiving enough impulse to drive the rivet. I've
>tried every combination of air pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Jamie
>
>do not archive
>
>--
>Jamie D. Painter
>RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved)
>http://rv.jpainter.org
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Dan
Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
you???
Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your
squeezer and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is
used to do the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set)
are used to reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates
the problem of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less
than skilled assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms,
especially when working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so
that the flanging on the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding
the bar parallel with the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
saw, belt sander and a drill.
Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with
a C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
Charlie
PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
it all out
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>chaztuna@adelphia.net writes:
>
> > Dave
> > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what you
> > want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
>
>Charlie,
>
>I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
>
>I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to see
>what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had a honker
>bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the ribs to the
>spar.
>Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably help a
>lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the rivets.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
Message 22
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Well I have an alternative.
When I was going for my IFR, what I really wanted was to be familiar
with all the correct answers, and not familiar with the wrong ones as
the wrong ones just muddied up my brain water.
So in that vein, I took ALL the questions, and correct responses and
studies just those. Questions with correct responses. Then when taking
the test, the correct answers were familiar and the wrong ones were
unfamiliar.
You can have them here under downloads/strangely useful things.
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/
Enjoy.
Kahuna
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Subject: RV-List: Kips faa test
--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
<evmeg@snowcrest.net>
What happened to the Kips practice test on the web? It seems to have
disappeared. I like to quiz myself every once in a while to stay sharp.
Is there another site that does the same?
Thanks....
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen@rv7.us>
At a mere 61, I also appreciate the time to work on the parts that are
really fun. I look at as paying someone $5 an hour to do the tedious
repetitive work that I'd get tired of doing. The workmanship on the QB
parts is also very good. I've found one missed rivet and no bad rivets and
the skin lays down very smooth. I am convinced it was worth it to go quick
build.
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul
Subject: RV-List: To Quick Build or Not
--> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich@dcscorp.com>
I'm in the midst of assembling my RV-8A emp kit and admittedly have
contracted a very serious case of the "disease". This stuff is great -
tremendously interesting and rewarding. However, I have found that the
actual construction timeline is moving more to the right from what I had
envisioned. Not so much the actual hands-on stuff, but the time actually
available to get into the workshop. All the usual suspects - job, wife,
grandsons, personal business, house maintenance, community involvement,
etc, etc.
I'm having a tough time deciding on the standard kit or quick build. I
enjoy the construction process, but am becoming increasingly frustrated
by the time constraints. And somehow I've inadvertently let myself
become 61 years old, so the "time left to enjoy my toys" factor also
enters the equation.
I realize that the decision is ultimately mine alone, but I'd be
interested in hearing some thought of others who have found themselves
in a similar situation. What were the deciding factors that made you
decide to go one way or the other?
Money isn't the issue - I've saved enough to cover the added cost of the
QB.
Paul Valovich
Booger
Ridgecrest, CA
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
Charlie
Where did you find the C style back riveting set? I looked around after the
last thread on this subject and could not find one listed.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Dan
Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
you???
Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your squeezer
and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is used to do
the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set) are used to
reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates the problem
of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less than skilled
assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms, especially when
working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so that the flanging on
the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding the bar parallel with
the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
saw, belt sander and a drill.
Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with a
C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
Charlie
PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
it all out
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
>chaztuna@adelphia.net writes:
>
> > Dave
> > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what
> > you want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
>
>Charlie,
>
>I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
>
>I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to
>see what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had
>a honker bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the
>ribs to the spar.
>Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably
>help a lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the
rivets.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Mags Crossed |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hal Kempthorne <hal_kempthorne@sbcglobal.net>
I won't one up you I will one down you! Mine ran from Dec 2000 to last month
with mags reversed! 175 hours. It was frequently hard to start from day one
which was with a new engine!
It does no harm but it does make starting harder. Recently it was a chilly 40*
and it would not fire at all. Figuring out that the problem was reversed leads
was difficult because it seemed so impossible.
If starting is difficult, check it out because it is an easy mistake, eh guys?
hal
Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com> wrote:
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen
Heh, heh... been there done that. Get this, mine ran a year with my
mags reversed! John Furey wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey"
>
>I'm embarrassed to admit that I switched the P leads on my mag (toggle)
>switches which means that I was starting on the right mag only and the left
>
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 12/21/04 12:59:38 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
2004nospam@earthlink.net writes:
> The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
> is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
> you???
>
Yes, I was using the 1/8" universal rivet set. What should I have used?
BTW the HOPPER 9000 is also about 3 lbs. Great minds think alike. Or maybe
the job forces you to do it a certain way. I too have 3 holes in the HOPPER
9000. Sounds similar. I will get to that picture ASAP.
Do not archive.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying since July)
Message 27
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| Subject: | Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
When I began attaching the LE ribs to the spar, I played around with the
set on the bucking bar, but it was too easy to slip off. Also, it took way
too many strokes to set the rivet.
What worked a little better was a regular bucking bar with duct tape
around it on the shop head side. Pushing hard with both the gun and the
bucking bar made a big difference.
After struggling with the bucking bar and gun, I switched over to Mongo
Squeeze.:
http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG
This is a CP-351 with 9 inch deep alligator jaws. I bought it on Ebay for
about $100. (They typically sell for about twice that on Ebay. New, they go
for over $2,000.)
I spent a day rigging up a rope and pulley system that would suspend Mongo
Squeeze from the rafters in my garage. I used the rails from a sliding
closet door with a few pulleys, rope, and lead shot to make a
counter-weight system that looks a bit like the rigging on a tower crane.
This allows me to slide back and forth (and up and down) along the main
spar and rear spar. By maneuvering Mongo Squeeze from each side of the
spar, I was able to reach every rivet. Every rivet came out perfectly.
Until the spar, I used Mongo Squeeze exclusively on the bench (shown) with
the foot pedal. Great for dimpling skins (and ribs) and riveting assemblies
you can support with your hands. Makes it all go a lot faster.
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | RE:Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
Larry,
What did you thin with? I tried acetone, lacquer thinner, MEK, water. No
joy...
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:59:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Firesleeve: Sealing ends
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I thinned the RTV. I'm happy with how it turned out.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/01/firesleeve_dres.html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: RE:Firesleeve: Sealing ends |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
I used MEK. Quite a bit of it....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry@BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Jerry2DT@aol.com said:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
>
>
> Larry,
>
> What did you thin with? I tried acetone, lacquer thinner, MEK, water. No
> joy...
>
> Jerry Cochran
>
> In a message dated 12/20/2004 11:59:41 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@bowenaero.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Firesleeve: Sealing ends
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" <Larry@BowenAero.com>
>
> I thinned the RTV. I'm happy with how it turned out.
>
> http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2004/01/firesleeve_dres.html
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry@BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Anywhere Map Web Site Attack |
0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
--> RV-List message posted by: "John" <n1cxo320@salidaco.com>
It appears AWM web site was attacked...try their "documentation" site, or
their discussion site. Damn hackers !
John
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Anywhere Map Web Site Attack |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Yeah, it happened last night between 10:30 and 11:00pm PST. I was trying to get
into their discussion forums and got the new defaced web page. Looked like
an internet worm to me. I wish I could remember what the site said. Maybe our
good friend Mr. Stewart could have helped nail the culprit. Seemed to say something
about NoSaferWeb or Net or something. It was just too late at night.
John <n1cxo320@salidaco.com> wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "John"
It appears AWM web site was attacked...try their "documentation" site, or
their discussion site. Damn hackers !
John
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Christopher Stone <rv8iator@earthlink.net>
Jamie...
After consulting with Van's I took the easy way out and used LP4-3 (blind rivets)
for the 4 outboard ribs and LP4-4 for the 2 inboard ribs (where the ribs attach
through the spar doupler and spar web). You do have to grind the side of
the nose flat on the "pop" riveter to get it to fit against the main ribs.
Chris Stone
RV-8
Newberg, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: Jamie Painter <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Subject: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter@jpainter.org>
Listers:
Last night my wife and I tried to rivet our assembled right LE to the spar.
Boy....what a pain. Anyone have any hints to make this easier? I've already
ground down my offset universal rivet set so manufactured head access isn't a
problem. I'm using a 2x gun which equates to having to hit the AN470AD4-X
rivets for what seems like forever to get them to set through the spar, and I
think this is aggravating the problem (it's one thing to get your hand in
there to set the rivet...it's another thing entirely to hold it there for any
extended period of time!) Would you folks that have used both the 2x and the
3x recommend that I upgrade to the 3x? Does the 3x handle the AD4-X rivets
much easier than the 2x? Also, I'm just curious about what the 2 in 2x means.
Is this some arbitrary number or does it have a meaning? I mean, I know that
the 3x hits harder than the 2x...but why? It's internal mechanisms are
heavier or what?
I haven't had any problems with the AD4-X rivets anywhere else except for the
spar (it took a while setting the main ribs to spar rivets as well). It seems
like the thick spar web is absorbing some of the impact from the rivet gun so
the bucking bar is not receiving enough impulse to drive the rivet. I've
tried every combination of air pressure/bucking bar size I can think of.
Thanks in advance!
Jamie
do not archive
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings (fuse on order) N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: <smileyburnett@charter.net>
Paul,
I am ashamed to say I have been working on an RV-6A QB for nearly 5 years, and
am also 61. Do the QB as you'll still have plenty to do and hundreds of buying
decisions for outfitting it. Pilots need to fly although building is enjoyable.
Best wishes,
Ron Burnett
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 34
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|
| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Dan,
You were using the correct set.
Charlie
>snipped
>
>Yes, I was using the 1/8" universal rivet set. What should I have used?
>
>BTW the HOPPER 9000 is also about 3 lbs. Great minds think alike. Or maybe
>the job forces you to do it a certain way. I too have 3 holes in the HOPPER
>9000. Sounds similar. I will get to that picture ASAP.
>
>Do not archive.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A (Flying since July)
Message 35
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|
| Subject: | Re: Mongo Squeeze (was: Riveting LE To Spar) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Bill
Nice tool, however, the rivets in question can't be set with a squeezer
of any type. (not unless you've got something with a 4 foot throat)
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
>
> When I began attaching the LE ribs to the spar, I played around
> with the
>set on the bucking bar, but it was too easy to slip off. Also, it took way
>too many strokes to set the rivet.
>
> What worked a little better was a regular bucking bar with duct tape
>around it on the shop head side. Pushing hard with both the gun and the
>bucking bar made a big difference.
>
> After struggling with the bucking bar and gun, I switched over to
> Mongo
>Squeeze.:
>
>http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG
>
> This is a CP-351 with 9 inch deep alligator jaws. I bought it on
> Ebay for
>about $100. (They typically sell for about twice that on Ebay. New, they go
>for over $2,000.)
>
> I spent a day rigging up a rope and pulley system that would
> suspend Mongo
>Squeeze from the rafters in my garage. I used the rails from a sliding
>closet door with a few pulleys, rope, and lead shot to make a
>counter-weight system that looks a bit like the rigging on a tower crane.
>This allows me to slide back and forth (and up and down) along the main
>spar and rear spar. By maneuvering Mongo Squeeze from each side of the
>spar, I was able to reach every rivet. Every rivet came out perfectly.
>
> Until the spar, I used Mongo Squeeze exclusively on the bench
> (shown) with
>the foot pedal. Great for dimpling skins (and ribs) and riveting assemblies
>you can support with your hands. Makes it all go a lot faster.
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Dave,
I bought mine on EBay for about $12 4 years ago. There is a similar item
for sale there now. See
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50928&item=3861301551&rd=1
My first exposure to this tool was from RV8 builder Steve Dixon. Steve
found one of these in a box of bucking bars at Sun N' Fun. I borrowed his
and loved it. It looks really strange, but it works great. It can be
positioned in areas where no other back riveting tool can reach. Due to
it's mass, I find I that my ratio of tipped or sub standard rivets dropped
WAY down.
These things are very pricey when new, but can be found quite cheaply, used.
EBay member "Alien Spirit" had a lot of these for sale in the spring and
summer of this year. He now has a variation of the C set, an L set. See below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4513671719&fromMakeTrack=true
FYI Alien Spirit is great to do business with. I've been pleased with
everything I've bought from him.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
>
>Charlie
>Where did you find the C style back riveting set? I looked around after the
>last thread on this subject and could not find one listed.
>Dave
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>Dan
> Yes, signing up for Yahoo is free. Once you join, I suggest you sign up
>for the Lycoming group on Yahoo. Mahlon Russell of Mattituck Aviation, Don
>Rivera of Airflow Performance and another FI guru (forgot his name) all are
>members of that group. Great resource for Lycoming and Lycoming clone
>engines. Someone recently also started a Superior XP 360 group on Yahoo..
> The BINFORD 9000 weighs 3 pounds, so holding it on the manufactured head
>is NOT a problem. You were using the 1/8" universal rivet set, wheren't
>you???
> Yes, it is drilled to use the standard rivet sits you use in your squeezer
>and the Avery C frame tool. I drilled 3 holes. The center hole is used to do
>the 3 center rivets. The two outside holes (for the rivet set) are used to
>reach the upper and lower corner rivets. This method eliminates the problem
>of tipped rivets in this area. It also allows you to use a less than skilled
>assistant. You just need an assistant with long arms, especially when
>working on the 9 & 9A wings. I also notched the bar, so that the flanging on
>the lightening holes doesn't prevent you from holding the bar parallel with
>the rivet. I just used a chunk of hot rolled
>(cheapest) steel. It took me less than an hour to make the bar using a band
>saw, belt sander and a drill.
> Since the person running the rivet gun can watch the shop head being
>formed, getting great results is much easier. This bar in conjunction with a
>C style back riveting set was really handy while setting the universal
>rivets around the wing roots of my 8A fuselage.
>Charlie
>PS We've also got some good tech info available on the site as well. Check
>it all out
>
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
> >
> >In a message dated 12/21/04 11:21:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
> >chaztuna@adelphia.net writes:
> >
> > > Dave
> > > No, unfortunately, it's not. I can sign you up. After you see what
> > > you want, you can simply remove yourself from the group.
> > > Charlie Kuss
> > >
> >
> >Charlie,
> >
> >I too started to view the picture. Is signing up for Yahoo free?
> >
> >I too had trouble in this area of building the plane, and would like to
> >see what you are doing there. I did something similar, I think. I had
> >a honker bucking bar, drilled it for a rivet set, and back riveted the
> >ribs to the spar.
> >Using masking tape on the set to cushion the bouncing would probably
> >help a lot. I had trouble keeping the tool on the round head of the
>rivets.
> >
> >Dan Hopper
> >RV-7A
> >
> >
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: To Quick Build or Not |
--> RV-List message posted by: DANBERGERONHAM@aol.com
I'm doing a slow-build RV-7A and have been working on it since Feb 03. I'm
just finishing up the wings (The wife and I did our own tanks There are no
leaks but we probably used enough proseal to overgross the plane. I think my
wife got hooked on the stuff) and am about to order the fuselage kit. The 10
week lead time will hopefully give me just about enough time to winterize the
garage. The empenage and wings I've been able to build in the cellar (where it's
warm) but not so the fuselage. Temp this morning was minus 2 F and not much
above that in the garage.
I've thoroughly enjoy the building process thus far, but have to admit
there've been times when I wonder if I should have gone with the quick build kit.
I've gotten bored with the obvious stuff: match drilling, deburring, dimpling
and priming. I'm 62 years old, a retired soldier, work 50 hours per week as a
school administrator, maintain an old home, and have social and family
obligations. I don't plan on retiring for another two years but hope to have the
fuselage done by then. Then it'll be a full time, full-court press to finish it
up in one additional year. Meanwhile, I've learned to budget my time
carefully, get the most out of weekends and holidays for building, and an hour
of so
in the evenings. (It's amazing how much one can get done in one hour.)
Though I have to admit I'd rather be flying than building, I guess I'd still
go with the slow-build kit. It's a beautiful process. Take your time and
enjoy it.
Just my opinion.
Dan Bergeron
Chicopee, MA
Almost there with the wings
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Riveting LE To Spar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Richard Scott <rscott@cascadeaccess.com>
One of the replies mentioned a sale on rivet guns at ATS. My ATS gun is
more like an air hammer, as is the one owned by a friend. The "teasing"
trigger they claim is has means it is teasing YOU, seeing how long you will
try to make it work. And the ATS "sale" price on a Sioux air drill is $5
higher than Brown's normal price. So, I don't shop ATS.
Taylor guns some in our builder's group have don't seem to be any better
than the ATS's.
I eventually bought a well used Ingersoll Rand AVC 12 (3X equivalent) thru
Ebay & it is a much better gun than the ATS ever dreamed of being. My AI
recommends Chicago Pneumatic guns, but after working with him to rivet a
glider where we used both his CP & my IR, he says my IR is equal to the
CP. There is an IR AVC 12 on Ebay now, no CP 3X's but just keep watching.
I'm certainly no expert, but this is my experience.
Richard Scott
RV-9A emp.
Message 39
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|
| Subject: | Off topic - Control Vision web site |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts@yahoo.com>
Ah, the worm that took down Control Vision finally has a name:
perl.santy. It targets UNIX systems that run PHPBBS. Looks like it hit
them hard they are still down..
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
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