---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 12/23/04: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:55 AM - Re: Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs (Andrew Douglas) 2. 06:57 AM - Re: Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to (LarryRobertHelming) 3. 07:40 AM - ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 4. 08:31 AM - Re: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 5. 09:59 AM - Re: Riveting LE To Spar (HCRV6@aol.com) 6. 11:53 AM - Dan's New NTSB program (Tom Gummo) 7. 11:58 AM - sales tax () 8. 12:29 PM - Re: Dan's New NTSB program (Kathleen (rv7)) 9. 12:36 PM - Re: sales tax (Tom Gummo) 10. 12:59 PM - sales tax () 11. 01:10 PM - Re: sales tax (linn walters) 12. 01:59 PM - Re: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 (Ken Beene) 13. 02:43 PM - Re: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 (LarryRobertHelming) 14. 02:58 PM - Re: Dan's New NTSB program (Scott Vanartsdalen) 15. 03:09 PM - Re: Dan's New NTSB program (Derrick Aubuchon) 16. 03:32 PM - teflon hose (sarg314) 17. 05:00 PM - Re: Dan's New NTSB program (Tom Barnes) 18. 05:31 PM - Re: teflon hose (Dan Checkoway) 19. 05:36 PM - Re: teflon hose (Hal Kempthorne) 20. 08:19 PM - Re: Dan's New NTSB program (Gordon or Marge Comfort) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:42 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Newbie Q: Fluting seat ribs From: Andrew Douglas --> RV-List message posted by: Andrew Douglas Thanks for the prompt replies, guys. Dan; > I think you are referring to the cutouts for installing the control > > sticks, aren't you? You have to fasten the ribs back together again at the > top, so you could do that now. No, I'm talking about the notch in the upper edge of the rib where the angle changes. Onward and upward.... ----------------------------------------------------- Andrew Douglas Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:57:21 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Would you mind to give us a reference for purchasing such as a product, name or part number? Thanks Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RV-List: Re: Alternator temperature monitor was Apples to > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Just a though, some builders may consider temperature sensitive indicating labels. Although, not as nice as thermo-couple/cockpit monitoring for detailed info, it could also be useful. > > Indicating labels, temp sensitive tape is available many temp ranges and could be placed in several locations to keep track of temps for flight test. Placing them in several locations you could monitor temps under the cowl of accessories like the alternator and any other item you want.You could check to see how hot you Carb heat is, cowl, oil cooler or Battery. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:50 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I am having a helluva time finding a good installation location for this thing. Initially I planned on putting it to the bottom of the fwd baggage floor right above the rudder pedals. That was until I saw this monster data cable that plugs in to stick down a couple of inches right into the pedals. So who of you put it where on the 8? Mike S8 Bench flew the GRT/MX20/430, 330 and ACS last night in the dard. KWEL KWEL KWEL stuff. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Ok Im replying to myself. I spoke with ACS this morning(they read the list) and they are gonna swap out this monster cable for a ribbon cable that will sit flat and head away from the heat sink. This is a perfect solution and it means that the analog module can really be low profile and install in a much smaller space. I told em to forget that monster cable on any installation and go ribbon. The weight alone scared me. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I am having a helluva time finding a good installation location for this thing. Initially I planned on putting it to the bottom of the fwd baggage floor right above the rudder pedals. That was until I saw this monster data cable that plugs in to stick down a couple of inches right into the pedals. So who of you put it where on the 8? Mike S8 Bench flew the GRT/MX20/430, 330 and ACS last night in the dark. KWEL KWEL KWEL stuff. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:20 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting LE To Spar --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Jamie: I switched from a 2X to a 3X rivet gun at about the same stage in building that you are at and never looked back. The 3X for me was far easier to control and sets -4 rivets much faster. Just turn the pressure down for the -3 rivets! Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying, 20+ hours ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:53:30 AM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" "Rocket List" , "RV List" Subject: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Dan, Way to go. Another super tool for RVer to use. I used it to check on the RV accident. If you remember, I camped beside an RV-4 which crashed on the way home from OSH this year. Anyway, the plane was out of gas, even though, he stopped and got gas. Below is a part of the NTSB report: Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, Kansas, at 1343. WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? Is this just a typo or does someone need to question the NTSB as to where they got their numbers? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:58:14 AM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: sales tax --> RV-List message posted by: Howdy. Im a newby considering purchase of either a mostly completed kit or a low time, flying RV-6 or 7. Will I save any money on sales tax by traveling out-of-state to buy? Im in California if that makes any difference. If I have to pay sales tax, when would it be assessed? thanks Erich Weaver ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:29:04 PM PST US From: "Kathleen (rv7)" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" My experience with the NTSB indicates that it is well worth the effort to write a letter challenging their assumptions. If they can't factually support the assumption, they will have to drop it from the final report. If you don't write a challenge, they will leave it in and it will become part of the findings and support for probable cause. I my own case, their initial report indicated that the airplane was overloaded when it was really more than 100 pounds under gross. The overloaded airplane was going to be the probable cause. The truth is that it was an engine failure on takeoff resulting from a mechanical failure caused the crash. Let them know you disagree and do it in writing. They don't have the resolve to engage someone who really stands up to them. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tom Gummo Subject: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Dan, Way to go. Another super tool for RVer to use. I used it to check on the RV accident. If you remember, I camped beside an RV-4 which crashed on the way home from OSH this year. Anyway, the plane was out of gas, even though, he stopped and got gas. Below is a part of the NTSB report: Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, Kansas, at 1343. WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? Is this just a typo or does someone need to question the NTSB as to where they got their numbers? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:13 PM PST US From: "Tom Gummo" Subject: Re: RV-List: sales tax --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Erich, We had a guy buy a plane lately and he claimed that if he keep it out of state for three months, he wouldn't have to pay sales tax. I am not a CPA nor a H&R block type of guy so take this for what it is worth. :-) Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: sales tax > --> RV-List message posted by: > > Howdy. Im a newby considering purchase of either a mostly completed kit > or a low time, flying RV-6 or 7. Will I save any money on sales tax by > traveling out-of-state to buy? Im in California if that makes any > difference. > > If I have to pay sales tax, when would it be assessed? > > thanks > > Erich Weaver > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:30 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: sales tax --> RV-List message posted by: As often happens, I found the answers to my own questions shortly after asking them. Looks like the tax man is gonna get me one way or another. In case anyone else is interested, this web site seems to cover just about everything on the sales tax/use tax issue for california: http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqtrans.htm. A quick check of Google indicates other similar sites are available for other states. regards, Erich ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:25 PM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: sales tax --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters erichweaver@cox.net wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: > >Howdy. Im a newby considering purchase of either a mostly completed kit or a low time, flying RV-6 or 7. Will I save any money on sales tax by traveling out-of-state to buy? Im in California if that makes any difference. > I'm going to say ..... maybe not. What you should do is check the difference in sales tax where you are (CA) and where the airplane is sold. If it's cheaper where it's sold, have the seller collect the tax, and show that on the paperwork. >If I have to pay sales tax, when would it be assessed? > Most states cull the airplane sale from the change in registry of the FAA. Let's say that you buy the airplane in Oregon, and don't pay sales tax. When you register the airplane in your name in CA, the CA Dept. of Revenue picks up on that and sends you a tax bill complete with penalties. A lot of aircraft sales transactions are 'fudged' a bit, though, and that can save you some sales tax hit. For me (FL), when I register my newly built aircraft, the FL dept of revenue will want to see invoices of how much I paid for the parts. They know roughly what a flying plane is worth .... from many sources. If they think it's worth more than what you paid for the parts, then you'll be required to show the invoices to get the value lowered. Some folks are really surprised when they start their project and reserve an N#, only to get a tax bill before it's built .... and just after spending all their hard earned cash for the kit is the wrong time to get that bill. Now, there are ways to get the 'reported' sales price down. I've heard that you can buy the whole kit for say 10K, and a GPS for 25K ..... the seller gets his 35K asking price and you document the 10K purchase price. Legal? I'm not sure, nor do I advise you to do that. I'm just passing on what I've heard. Linn do not archive > >thanks > >Erich Weaver > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:41 PM PST US From: "Ken Beene" Subject: RE: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Beene" The flat ribbon cable is smaller but it is probably not shielded and can generate a lot of RFI. I know of one person with an early ACS that generated a lot of noise with the round cable. Ken > > Ok Im replying to myself. > I spoke with ACS this morning(they read the list) and they are gonna > swap out this monster cable for a ribbon cable that will sit flat and > head away from the heat sink. > > This is a perfect solution and it means that the analog module can > really be low profile and install in a much smaller space. > > I told em to forget that monster cable on any installation and go > ribbon. The weight alone scared me. > > Mike > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:43:00 PM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module installation RV-8 --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" What? FACT: The ribbon cable is flat; On the other hand, the heavy, long, and other cable is round. I assume you mean this: Whichever cable you use it will be unshielded and cause lots of problems with RFI. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" do not archive ----- Original Message ----- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Ken Beene" > > The flat ribbon cable is smaller but it is probably not shielded and can > generate a lot of RFI. I know of one person with an early ACS that > generated a lot of noise with the round cable. > > Ken ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:01 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen Over 5 gallons unusable? Excuse me? I'd like to know where they got those numbers too. Do not archive. Tom Gummo wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Dan, Way to go. Another super tool for RVer to use. I used it to check on the RV accident. If you remember, I camped beside an RV-4 which crashed on the way home from OSH this year. Anyway, the plane was out of gas, even though, he stopped and got gas. Below is a part of the NTSB report: Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, Kansas, at 1343. WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? Is this just a typo or does someone need to question the NTSB as to where they got their numbers? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II do not archive http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:17 PM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program From: "Derrick Aubuchon" --> RV-List message posted by: "Derrick Aubuchon" I agree, 26.7 seems a tad low for the usable fuel. In my RV4, I have less than a cup of unusable per tank. Just to make the calculations easier, and conservative, I figure 1/4 gallon of unusable which brings my usable quantity to 31.5. (But my "personal fuel reserves" kick in much earlier than that!) > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > Dan, > > Way to go. Another super tool for RVer to use. > > I used it to check on the RV accident. If you remember, I camped beside > an RV-4 which crashed on the way home from OSH this year. Anyway, the > plane was out of gas, even though, he stopped and got gas. Below is a > part of the NTSB report: > > Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of > flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly > installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The > total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 > gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, > Kansas, at 1343. > > WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me > that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 > gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? > > Is this just a typo or does someone need to question the NTSB as to > where they got their numbers? > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket-II > > do not archive > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > Derrick L. Aubuchon n184da@volcano.net RV4 N184DA, 400hrs ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:37 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: RV-List: teflon hose --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce carries. My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae back ordered. Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:28 PM PST US From: "Tom Barnes" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Barnes" Maybe they consider TAKE-OFF quantity in part of their equasion. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen > > Over 5 gallons unusable? Excuse me? I'd like to know where they got those numbers too. > > Do not archive. > > Tom Gummo wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" > > Dan, > > Way to go. Another super tool for RVer to use. > > I used it to check on the RV accident. If you remember, I camped beside an RV-4 which crashed on the way home from OSH this year. Anyway, the plane was out of gas, even though, he stopped and got gas. Below is a part of the NTSB report: > > Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, Kansas, at 1343. > > WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? > > Is this just a typo or does someone need to question the NTSB as to where they got their numbers? > > Tom Gummo > Apple Valley, CA > Harmon Rocket-II > > do not archive > > http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! > > When a man does all he can > though it succeeds not well, > blame not him that did it." > -- George Washington > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:18 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: teflon hose --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" http://www.aircrafthose.com/ Precision Hose Technology Give 'em a call. Best prices, knowledgeable, FAA approved, comes with documentation, yadda yadda. ;-) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Subject: RV-List: teflon hose > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel > lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products > speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and > hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce > carries. > > My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's > in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae > back ordered. > > Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest > different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get? > > Thanks, > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:34 PM PST US From: Hal Kempthorne Subject: Re: RV-List: teflon hose --> RV-List message posted by: Hal Kempthorne They can afford to sell them cheap when they are out of stock. Seriously, it is often true that lower priced sellers offer poorer service. Not always but very often. hal sarg314 wrote: My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae back ordered. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:19:29 PM PST US From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" Subject: RV-List: Dan's New NTSB program --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo" Dan, Fuel receipts were obtained from locations along the pilot's route of flight. Based on these receipts, it was calculated that the newly installed engine burned approximately 11.5 gallons of fuel per hour. The total fuel capacity of this airplane was 32 gallons, of which, 26.7 gallons were usable. The pilot purchased 24.6 gallons of fuel in Iola, Kansas, at 1343. WHERE DID THE NTSB GET THE USABLE FUEL OF 26.7 GALLONS? I seems to me that a half a gallon per tank is trapped is much closer or maybe 31 gallons usable. What say you RV-4 drivers? Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II Tom: I know of one RV-4 that will draw more than 31 gallons and keep running. They must have dreamed it up. I would question their fuel consumption too, although I suppose 11.5 gph is possible. I once did a cross country in a Cessna 150 that should have burned something over 5 gph but instead burned over 7. The guy I rented it from said "probably had a warped venturi". Thanks a lot, but I did learn not to trust book figures until I had checked for myself. Gordon Comfort N363GC