Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:53 AM - Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight ()
2. 05:59 AM - Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
3. 07:19 AM - ACS 2002 out of box experience (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta))
4. 07:55 AM - Re: Teflon Hose (Jerry Calvert)
5. 07:56 AM - Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight (Rob Prior)
6. 08:21 AM - Re: Teflon Hose (sarg314)
7. 08:42 AM - Re: Teflon Hose (Jerry Calvert)
8. 10:02 AM - Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience (Dan Checkoway)
9. 12:45 PM - Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience (RobHickman@aol.com)
10. 04:21 PM - Re: teflon hose (HCRV6@aol.com)
11. 05:58 PM - Graphic EIS (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
12. 07:19 PM - Flattening bumb in skin (Don Mack)
13. 08:21 PM - Re: Graphic EIS (tom)
14. 09:18 PM - Re: Teflon Hose (sarg314)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: <sears@searnet.com>
> For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A,
reserving the left > tank for avgas only.
>
This is something I've never done. I use autogas in both tanks because I
buy avgas only a couple of times a year. I've been doing that since 1986
and in Scooter since early 2000 when I felt the engine breakin was complete
enough.
> Several years ago, while flying in the winter at altitude (well below
freezing) my RV-
> 6's engine lost power. I switched tanks to my pure avgas tank, and power
> returned. As best I could tell, water in the auto gas had come out of
solution at the > reduced temperature of this flight, turned to ice/slush,
and clogged the fuel system
> (fuel pickup finger strainer, perhaps). I landed, drained a good deal of
gas from the > right tank by removing the tank's drain, added avgas to the
tank, and proceeded
> without incident. I thought the problem was the crummy (7-11) gas I was
using, that > often contained water (found when sumping tanks). I switched
to a better brand of > auto gas (BP), and have had no further problems until
today.
>
Hmmm. That's interesting. From your note, I got the impression you
continued using the cheap gas knowing full well that it contained water,
from time to time. In all the years I've been buying auto gas for my
airplanes, water in the gas has not been a problem. Well, I must admit that
I sometimes get a little in the tanks due to the flush caps; but, I've found
none in the gas I've bought. My question would be to ask why you used the
bad gas knowing it was bad. Thankfully, you wisened up and started buying
gas from a better quality, I hope, gas station.
> Today I left Virginia with one tank of (mostly) auto gas and one tank of
pure avgas. > I burned the right (autogas) tank down to 1/4 tank or less,
landed in Indiana, and
> refilled both tanks with avgas. After about an hour of flight on the
right tank (the
> tank that had a small amount of auto gas mixed with 3/4 tank of avgas) the
engine
> lost power. I switched to the other (avgas only) tank, and power
returned.
> Switching back and forth confirmed that the right tank was blocked... fuel
flow
> would immediately drop when the right tank was selected.
>
> I landed, removed the tank drain, drained out a couple of cups of gas,
fueled the
> plane with avgas, and continued the flight (takeoff used the avgas-only
tank, of
> course). After perhaps 1/2 hour of full power flight on the right tank,
fuel flow from
> the right tank stopped again. I was able to complete the flight on the
left (avgas
> only) tank.
>
Hmm. The big question here is did you introduce water in the tank when you
filled it with avgas. One of the reasons we check our gas is that we can
get water in the tank, no matter what kind of gas we use. Avgas can contain
water, and goodness knows what else, also. The fact that you flew out
almost all of the first tank of gas, that was auto gas, told me you probably
didn't have a problem with the auto gas. It must have been the avgas, or
something else. Otherwise, I'd think you'd have had the problem on the
first leg of your flight.
> I'm puzzled. The flight to Indiana (no fuel problems) saw temps of about
17(F). I
> saw temps of about 10(F) on the second leg... not a lot colder, and the
tank had less > than 1/4 tank of auto gas at the beginning of the second
leg, so why did the problem
> occur then, and recur after I'd drained the tank?
>
Is it possible that the avgas had some water in it that was not given enough
time to settle so that you could drain it off? That does happen, from time
to time. That's why it's good to let the gas settle for a bit before
checking it. Granted, most of us don't do that; but, I've read that we
should do that, anyway. You might have found that the avgas was the
culprit, this time. It does happen. :-) Unlike good gas stations, FBOs
generally don't have the large fuel flows that the gas stations do. If you
buy gas from one that doesn't do a good job of checking for water, you could
end up with some of it in your tanks, just as you did with the 7-11 gas .
However, you should have seen the same results in the other tank, if that
happened. Who knows?
> Has anyone else had a similar experience? Any ideas on a solution? I'm
very
> hesitant to use an automotive "dry gas" product. I've heard warnings
against using
> these (mostly alcohol) products with aircraft.
>
I have no idea; but, it could be you have a low spot that's collecting
water. However, it would have to be somewhere between the tank and the
inside of the fuse. The fuse should be warm enough, if you have cabin heat,
to keep things from freezing. The engine compartment is surely warm enough.
Do you have a gascolator between your tank and the inside of the fuse?
I guess one reason I may not have encountered this situation is that I don't
fly when it's that cold. I limit my flying to temps above 30F, most of the
time. I've flown when it's colder; but, it wasn't fun. Still, I seldom see
water in my tanks. When I do, it's from condensation or from a prior rain.
Then, it's only a few drops in the tank sump and has never caused an engine
stoppage.
As for the "gas dry" product, I'm not sure that it would harm anything; but,
it could, I guess. We don't know what ingredients it has and what impacts
it can make on the sealer, fuel system parts, etc. Maybe small amounts
won't hurt anything. I've been reluctant to try it. One would think it
would have similar impacts on auto fuel systems, though.
I know I didn't answer your problem; but, I've not had any problems with my
auto gas usage. I also know we don't have alcohol in our gas, locally.
I've tested for it and asked about it. That may be the difference.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter, 300+ hours on auto gas)
RV-7A #70317 (Working on wings.)
EAA Tech Counselor
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Tim,
I used auto gas in my C-150 for 4 years and never had a problem like you
describe. There should be cars sitting all along the highways if there is much
water at all in auto gas. Car fuel systems aren't any more immune to water
than our airplanes are. I would look for how water is getting into that right
tank. Perhaps a bad O-ring on the fuel cap, or some other strange leak.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying -- still not painted)
Message 3
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| Subject: | ACS 2002 out of box experience |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart@iss.net>
Rob Great Work on the cabling issue.
I have bench flown the unit and my initial impressions are this:
1. Out of the box I was very impressed with the quality of the sensors
and the thoroughness of the labeling and so forth.
2. Just a few install issues that I hope to get worked out in the docs.
As an example it says "don't connect the mac servos directly to the ACS
2002." OK so right above it it says "the system is designed to work with
the MAC servos." Sooooo... Which is it? What wire goes where? Do I need
a 1k resistor to get the voltage drop you need? Spoon feed me please.
3. The screen is awesome.
4. In several places in the doc there are "????" in there that look like
place holders where you meant to put in very important information. A
search of the doc for these will yield quite a few.
5. I was surprised not to have a wire to annunciate a warning light. Yes
you have audio, yes you have the unit indicating a problem, but a visual
indicator in the field of view, which you unit may not be in, would be a
feature that other units have that you do not.
6. There are several places where you took great care in explaining
things with very nice pictures. Other areas Im scratching me head.
7. There are 2 9 pin db connectors on the back of the display with
absolutely no wiring diagram for them. This looks like a tremendous
oversight. A straight fwd index with pin outs is a must.
As a rule, spoon feed the customer and don't give them (me) ANY room for
screwing up.
These are my first days impressions.
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
RobHickman@aol.com
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 analog module Cable and Support
--> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com
>>I assume you mean this: Whichever cable you use it will be
unshielded and
>>cause lots of problems with RFI.
We offer 4 different cables.
1. 18" Ribbon
2. 2.5' Shielded Round Cable
3. 5' Shielded Round Cable
4. 15' Shielded Round Cable. Used for Long-EZ and Burkut
None of the cables will "cause lots of problems with RFI" The only RFI
problems that we have had were are on very early units that did not have
a filter
on the internal 3" cable that connects the LCD panel to the circuit
board.
If anyone ever has a question please contact me. I am usually
available 7
days a week 365 days a year. I doubt that anyone has better support
than we
do. My cell phone number is always on the company answering machine.
Here
are the ways to get help:
1. Email _Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com_
(mailto:Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com)
2. Company Phone: (503) 598-7727
3. Cell Phone: (503) 701-5042 (I always have the cell 24/7)
4. Fly over to my house OR40 , On a nice day there are usually RV's
in
the yard and Jennifer might even make lunch.
We have sold hundreds of systems and we have had very few problems, if
we
did would I give out my cell phone number?
Rob Hickman
Advanced Flight Systems, Inc.
Advanced Engine Monitoring - Advanced AOA Systems
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker Precision
has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in the
cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
http://www.bakerprecision.com/hose.htm
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Brame" <chasb@satx.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Teflon Hose
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>
> Try Earl's Indy at: 1-800-331-4639.
>
> This outfit is in Indianapolis. They have been very helpful to me and
> quick to produce whatever I have asked for.
>
> Address is: 302 Gasoline Alley, Indianapolis, IN 46222. Email:
> www.earlsindy.com
> Local phone: 317/241-0318 fax: 317/247-1128
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
> -------------------------------
>
>
> > Time: 03:32:37 PM PST US
> > From: sarg314
> > Subject: RV-List: teflon hose
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314
> >
> > I like the idea of using teflon braided steel hose for my oil and fuel
> > lines. An RV-6A builder I know used Earl's Performance Products
> > speed-flex hoses. Looks like pretty good stuff and the fittings and
> > hose are cheaper than the Aeroquip Teflon hoses that Aircraft Spruce
> > carries.
> >
> > My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
> > in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
> > back ordered.
> >
> > Can any one suggest a source for this product, or perhaps suggest
> > different brand of teflon hose that's good but easier to get?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall
> >
> >
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Ice formation in auto fuel in flight |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rob Prior <rv7@b4.ca>
Tim Lewis wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Lewis " <Tim_Lewis@msm.umr.edu>
>
>For several years I've used auto gas in the right tank of my RV-6A, reserving
the left
>tank for avgas only.
>
>
I know it would violate your pattern for several years, but have you
tried running pure AvGas in the right tank, and pure Auto Gas in the
left tank? If the problem is really with the Auto Gas, the problem
should move with the gas. If the problem is actually with your fuel
system (clogged line somewhere, perhaps, or trapped water in a low spot)
then you should be able to identify it.
-Rob
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Jerry:
Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
fittings on the hose?
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
>I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker Precision
>has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
>used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
>prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in the
>cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
>
>
>
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
Order by the dash number. -6 hose uses -6 firelseeve.
Here is the fire sleeve on Bakers site:
http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm
Jerry Calvert
N296JC RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Jerry:
> Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
> you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
> firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
> fittings on the hose?
>
> Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
> >
> >I used teflon hose on my -6 including the the brake lines. Baker
Precision
> >has great prices and they use the thick walled aviation grade teflon. I
> >used all steel fittings and the hoses are simple to build. They sell
> >prebuilt -3 hoses that are perfect for the brake lines. I used them in
the
> >cockpit on the dual brake cylinders. They WILL NOT leak!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> 7. There are 2 9 pin db connectors on the back of the display with
> absolutely no wiring diagram for them. This looks like a tremendous
> oversight. A straight fwd index with pin outs is a must.
Mike,
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/public/ACS2002_CD_IMAGE/ACS2002_System_Manual_V2_3.pdf
It's all in there...see page 27 for the audio connection pinouts. Here's
what it says:
RS-232 Port 2 and Sound connections
DB-9
Pin Description
4 26 Ohm Speaker Audio Output
5 Ground
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 560 Ohm Audio Output
And the PC connection is covered here:
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/public/ACS2002_CD_IMAGE/50906_Field_Programming_Cable.pdf
I installed an "early" ACS2002 and even then had no shortage of information
for installation. It's all in there if you look for it! ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 out of box experience |
--> RV-List message posted by: RobHickman@aol.com
> Just a few install issues that I hope to get worked out in the docs.
>?As an example it says "don't connect the mac servos directly to the ACS
>2002." OK so right above it it says "the system is designed to work with
>the MAC servos." Sooooo... Which is it? What wire goes where? Do I need
>a 1k resistor to get the voltage drop you need? Spoon feed me please.
Sorry for the confusion:
The manual actually says the following:
The system is designed to read the position transducer that is in the MAC
trim servo. The MAC servo has 5 wires. The two white wires are for motor
operation and the color-striped wires are for the position transducer. If the
indicator is reversed you will need to swap the orange and blue striped
wires.
CAUTION: DO NOT connect the MAC indicators and the ACS2002 to the MAC trim
servos. The MAC trim indicators are +12V and the ACS2002 is +10V.
I will change the manual next week to make this more clear.
You do not want to connect the MAC INDICATORS and the ACS2002. All you need
to do is connect the MAC servos 3 colored wires to the ACS using the
schematic on page: 20 and DO NOT CONNECT the MAC LED Indicators. You do NOT need
resistors.
Blue Wire +10V
Orange Wire Common
Green Wire to (Aileron or Elevator) input on the ACS
The connections for the Screen ports are on page 19 of the manual. We
provide the cable for programming so you do not need the connections
I hope this helps,
Rob
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 12/23/04 3:34:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
sarg314@comcast.net writes:
<< My problem is the local retail speed shops don't seem to carry Earl's
in a -6 size and a few of the big mail order outfits I contacted rae
back ordered. >>
Tom: I suggest you ask the dealer to order the fittings and hose you need.
I used quite a few Earl's fittings on my RV-6 and nearly all had to ordered
by the local Earl's
dealer. If that doesn't work contact Earl's directly and ask them where to
obtain what you need. You're right, it seems to be good stuff
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying, 20+ hours so far.
Message 11
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
There seem to be a number of reasonably good choice in a Graphical EIS!
ACS, Vision Micro, JPI, IK, AIM, and Grand Rapids.
I've seen some comments on ACS recently, and have searched the archives but
would appreciate current thoughts . . . the good, the bad and the ugly?!
Thanks! and Happy New Year!
Bob
Message 12
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| Subject: | Flattening bumb in skin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Don Mack" <don@dmack.net>
While riveting the top turtle-deck skin on, I was on the wrong rivet than
the guy on the outside. It resulted in a bump where there is a doubler on
the inside. It is it the forward part of the skin where the triangle doubler
sit for a 6 slider. Any ideas for smoothing out the bump? Since its a
doubled skin, I am at a loss as to how to correct it, other than taping it
down and filling it in.
Don Mack
don@dmack.net
do not archive
Message 13
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--> RV-List message posted by: "tom" <tom@mstay.com>
The ACS is a well designed device and their support is very good. I am a
satisfied customer.
Tom Nalevanko
CMA
Message 14
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--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Jerry:
What has confused me about the fire sleeve size is that different
manufacturers -6 hoses have different O.D.'s. Aeroquip 666 teflon hose
has O.D. of 0.466, while Earl's -6 hose is 0.546 O.D. I guess aeroquip
-6 firesleeve fits aeroquip -6 hose, but probably not an Earl's -6 Does
Earls make their own firesleeve, or do I use a -8 aeroquip firesleeve to
fit a -6 earl's hose, or....?
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6@cox.net>
>
>Order by the dash number. -6 hose uses -6 firelseeve.
>
>Here is the fire sleeve on Bakers site:
>http://www.bakerprecision.com/insulat.htm
>
>Jerry Calvert
>N296JC RV6
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Teflon Hose
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>>
>>Jerry:
>> Thanks for the tip. It sounds like you used the Earl's hose. Can
>>you tell me what size firesleeve you used over it? Is the size of the
>>firesleeve determined by the size of the hose, or the size of the
>>fittings on the hose?
>>
>>Jerry Calvert wrote
>>
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