Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:51 AM - Re: Tru Trak hardware (Bob Collins)
2. 07:04 AM - Re: QRe: Baffle-sourced fresh air (Kosta Lewis)
3. 08:14 AM - Plenum closure (Don/Marcia Piermattei)
4. 08:29 AM - Plenum Cowl... (Bill VonDane)
5. 08:45 AM - Re: Plenum closure (Jeff Point)
6. 09:53 AM - Carbon Plenum (Jerry2DT@aol.com)
7. 09:55 AM - Re: Plenum closure (Gary Zilik)
8. 10:11 AM - Re: Carbon Plenum (Terry Watson)
9. 11:03 AM - Re: Lycoming Shaking (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Baffle-sourced fresh air (Matt Jurotich)
11. 12:36 PM - Re: Lycoming Shaking (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
12. 12:41 PM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Christopher Dahl)
13. 12:48 PM - Fuselage Stand drawings done (Chris W)
14. 01:46 PM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Gary Zilik)
15. 02:34 PM - Re: Lycoming Shaking (linn walters)
16. 02:47 PM - Re: Plenum Cowl... (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
17. 05:00 PM - Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem (Charlie Brame)
18. 05:25 PM - Intercom wiring (smoothweasel@juno.com)
19. 06:17 PM - Re: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem (Jerry Springer)
20. 08:16 PM - replace starter for io-360/induction snorkel fit (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
21. 08:47 PM - Re: [VAF Mailing List] Plenum Cowl... (Dan Checkoway)
Message 1
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| Subject: | RE: Tru Trak hardware |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob Collins" <bcollins@visi.com>
After 4 days of searching every nook and cranny of the Web and the list, I
finally found a site which had specific reccomended hardware for the TruTrak
installation (Trutrak didn't send me a hardware callout as requested,
instead, just an e-mail that said it's "10-32 threads"....duh, no kidding!).
Anyway, props to this site :
http://www.rvproject.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/part_R_wing.html#ID2119. And here
for archival purposes is his recommendation:
* 3x NAS1801-3-20 (Fully threaded bolts)
* 1x AN3-13A & 1x AN3-7A bolts
* 3x AN960-10L washers
* 1x AN960-10 washer
* 4x AN960-3 washers
* 5x AN3 NyLocks - MS21044N3
Hope this helps someone in a similar state of confusion.
Bob
St. Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Collins [mailto:bcollins@visi.com]
Subject: Tru Trak hardware
I'm curious if anyone has a hardware callout for mounting the Tru Trak servo
to the brackets. In perusing the archives it seems the best way to handle
this is reaming out the holes and using a bolt and nut. So I'm also looking
for any site or info that explains the art of safety wiring.
Thanks
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Baffle-sourced fresh air |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel@dimensional.com>
>My RV-4 main cockpit vents come off a two inch flange in the upper
>center of the engine cowl. It enters via scat tubing to a stainless
>steel firewall fitting with a cut-off butterfly plate, controlled from
>the cockpit. The fitting then splits into two two inch scats......
Randy had a question regarding where the flange was located in the cowl.
Even though I reread the post several times it came out saying that the
flange was in the COWL. No. It is in the BAFFLING: the upper baffling,
just right of centerline. Sorry if this confused anyone.
I was also asked if the cowl had a NACA vent on top. No. The Very/Long
EZ series has this on the top of the canopy and is a great place to get
a shower if it rains and, in the RV series, a great way to water the
inside of your cockpit on the ground as it is impossible to make it
water tight. The nose of the EZs are on the ground when parked.
Someone also asked if there was a NACA vent that went to a three inch
scat. Yikes. That would make a huge hole somewhere. I have seen NACA
vents on -4s on the forward fuselage, just aft of the cowl. One I saw
had a little dam just forward of the inlet to get more air to flow into
the vent. You also will get some engine heat spill in that area. The
archives will probably tell you the original NACA vents in the canopy
was not a great idea either.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Message 3
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier@lamar.colostate.edu>
From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Shaking
--> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
suggested for ease of removal?
I have over 200 hours on a plenum made using Van's baffles and a self
designed aluminum "roof" that I attached with hinge pins. It has worked well
with only a couple of minor cracks. It also helps support the baffle mounted
oil cooler.
Don Piermattei
RV-9A
Carr, CO
Message 4
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RV-8@yahoogroups.com, rv8-list@matronics.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the "holy
cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - Colorado
www.rv8a.com
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint@mindspring.com>
I have one of the "screwed down" plenums which you describe.
http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/plenum.htm
I initially used hinge pins to connect the two top pieces. What I found
was that there was a lot of "fretting" of the hinges where the pin would
rub in the hinge due to vibration, and I think a system using hinges to
hold the whole thing together would wear over time. I replaced the
hinge pins with drill rod stock which was a VERY tight fit, ie. had to
be lubed up and run in with a drill, but it doesn't vibrate around any more.
Even with screws, removal is a 5 minute job with an electric drill. I
can remove the screws for one outer panel (1/4 of the total screws) in
about 1 minute, and have access to the top plugs on that side. I use
Torx screws and this helps too.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
List,
I've tried without success to find Jon Johanson's website for info on his
carbon fibre plenum. Anyone know?
Jerry Cochran
In a message dated 1/4/2005 12:04:43 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Marty,
My question too. I am currently fitting the one-piece carbon fiber plenum
from Jon Johanson. It's very nicely made, and uses the front lower baffles
and rear bulkhead baffle from Van's kit, but it's solid between the
cylinders on each side. I am hoping that there is enough flexibility to
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Don,
I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
(replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care anymore.
This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
Would I do it again? NO!
Just one mans perspective
Gary Zilik
Don/Marcia Piermattei wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier@lamar.colostate.edu>
>
> From: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Shaking
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Emrath" <emrath@comcast.net>
>
> This thread of baffling and oil cooler mounting has gotten my interest
> peaked. What do people observe if they have enclosed plenums? All the ones
> I've seen in picture seems to have tops screwed onto the side baffles via
> angles, unless they used Sam Jame's mode or Jon Johanson's and even those I
> think are screwed in place? So do these plenums self distruct from all the
> movement? Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have
> suggested for ease of removal?
> I have over 200 hours on a plenum made using Van's baffles and a self
> designed aluminum "roof" that I attached with hinge pins. It has worked well
> with only a couple of minor cracks. It also helps support the baffle mounted
> oil cooler.
> Don Piermattei
> RV-9A
> Carr, CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Jon Johanson's website is: http://flymore.com.au/
The plenum is a one-piece carbon fiber top, sides, and front that replaces
most of the side and front baffles. You still use Van's front lower and
rear baffles, or Jon supplies ones with the kit. I already had Van's baffle
kit, so I didn't get Jon's baffles. It is designed to be connected by piano
hinges to the rear baffle. To remove it, you would remove the hinge pins
and the two screws into each cylinder head. He supplies large aluminum
washers to reinforce the carbon fiber around the holes for the cylinder head
bolts.
Terry
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com
List,
I've tried without success to find Jon Johanson's website for info on his
carbon fibre plenum. Anyone know?
Jerry Cochran
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/3/05 6:15:38 PM Central Standard Time,
emrath@comcast.net writes:
> So do these plenums self distruct from all the
> movement?
>>>>
Mine's been moving along at about 150-185 mph for 144 hours so far- no
cracks, works great, less filling! 8-)
How's she coming along? N51PW is off to Tuscaloosa for clothing as soon as
WX looks better!
Mark
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Baffle-sourced fresh air |
--> RV-List message posted by: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
When my 6 was still flying, it had this set up. Worked fine where the
plane was built in New England, caused roasting in the Washington DC
area. Will NA ducts when it flies again.
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to: <mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov>
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Scott,
According to the SACRAMENTO SKYRANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL, the Lycoming
engines distort almost 1/4" while running. 3/16" of this takes place in the
crankcases. The other 1/16" is due to expansion of each cylinder head as it
is stressed by the compression stroke of the engine. I think that it is for
this reason that the vertical baffles are not one solid piece.
Charlie Kuss
Charlie,
I have a Lycoming apart here on the bench. There are studs through the case
into each cylinder which are the main bearing "bolts." If they stretched
3/16" they would break, for sure. Where the cylinder mounts at the 4 corners,
and there are not through-studs, there is 2" of very meaty casting to the
next through-stud. Where does all this movement happen?
Also, I'm sure you meant the power stroke, not the compression stroke!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
Walton, IN
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Christopher Dahl" <dahlhouse@volcano.net>
Gary,
Did you have any change in airspeed after installing the regular baffle
seals?
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum closure
> --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
> Don,
>
> I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
> The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
> about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
> (replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
> think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
> of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
> cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
> how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care
anymore.
>
> This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
> seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
> the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
> and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
> their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
> destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
>
> Would I do it again? NO!
>
> Just one mans perspective
>
> Gary Zilik
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fuselage Stand drawings done |
0.00 FROM_HAS_MIXED_NUMS From: contains numbers mixed in with letters
0.51 WEIRD_PORT URI: Uses non-standard port number for HTTP
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
Since no one that was interested in the design seemed to have any ideas
to change it, I finished the drawings and posted them in a pdf file on
my web server. You can find it here:
http://cdw.homelinux.com:8088/aviation/stands/
Now that the drawings are done, I'm sure some one will want to change
something. That's the way it always worked when I did this for a
living. I hope my less than professional detailing can be forgiven,
when I'm not getting paid, that level of detail is just too much work.
Chris W
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
http://thewishzone.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Changes in airspeed would be hard to document since I have done no
recent testing of TAS. I would guess that since my cooling inputs are
stock Van's there should be negligible differences. One thing is I have
always had higher (compared to similar RV's on the field) oil temps from
day one. My oil temps are down and react faster to airspeed changes than
when I had the plenum. My single CHT is also about 15F lower running
around 335F in cruise. Of course this may be due to the cooler OAT's
this time of year.
The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
too.
Gary
Christopher Dahl wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Christopher Dahl" <dahlhouse@volcano.net>
>
> Gary,
>
> Did you have any change in airspeed after installing the regular baffle
> seals?
>
> Chris
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik@excelgeo.com>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum closure
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>>
>>Don,
>>
>>I flew for 700 hours with and aluminum top on Van's standard baffles.
>>The top was attached with screws. Major pain in the arse. I thought
>>about changing to hinges but my carb heat hinge does not fare very well
>>(replaced once and wearing again) so I stayed with the screws. While I
>>think the plenum top beefed up the oil cooler mount I did have cracking
>>of the baffles on number 3 and number 2 cylinders. I have read that the
>>cylinder spread apart as much as .060" when at operating temperatures,
>>how much stress this put on the baffles I don't know. I don't care
>
> anymore.
>
>>This past month I removed the plenum top and installed regular baffle
>>seals. I wish I had done this 700 hours ago. What a novel concept to see
>>the top of my engine when I remove the cowl. Plug maintenance is easier
>>and I can visually check my primer lines at each oil change now since
>>their on top of the engine. Now I'm waiting for my oil cooler to self
>>destruct like Dan C. Who knows what lurks with my new baffle setup.
>>
>>Would I do it again? NO!
>>
>>Just one mans perspective
>>
>>Gary Zilik
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>Scott,
>According to the SACRAMENTO SKYRANCH ENGINEERING MANUAL, the Lycoming
>engines distort almost 1/4" while running. 3/16" of this takes place in the
>crankcases. The other 1/16" is due to expansion of each cylinder head as it
>is stressed by the compression stroke of the engine. I think that it is for
>this reason that the vertical baffles are not one solid piece.
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
>Charlie,
>
>I have a Lycoming apart here on the bench. There are studs through the case
>into each cylinder which are the main bearing "bolts." If they stretched
>3/16" they would break, for sure. Where the cylinder mounts at the 4 corners,
>and there are not through-studs, there is 2" of very meaty casting to the
>next through-stud. Where does all this movement happen?
>
Charlie may post a more thorough answer, but think thermal expansion
instead of stretching.
What I wanted to comment on, since you have your engine apart is
fretting on the bearing saddles.where the case parts. If you're going
to overhaul your engine (properly IMHO) you should ship your case off to
a facility like Divco and have it gone through. Have them install the
through-bolt collars (to prevent fretting) and the piston oil sprayers
if they're not already there.
Linn
do not archive
>
>Also, I'm sure you meant the power stroke, not the compression stroke!
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>Walton, IN
>
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum Cowl... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
Bill,
Yes . . . that was probably me . . . I talked to Sam James and he said it
could be done . . . and "wasn't that difficult" (for Sam) . . . he also
stated that you experience most of the efficiency gain from the "holy cowl"
. . . in other words, most of the gain is from the plenum.
I should also mention the most others I talked to - thought is was "more
than they wanted to tackle"!
I'll look back and see if I can find the original email.
Regards,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
<RV-8@yahoogroups.com>; <rv8-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Plenum Cowl...
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
>
> -Bill VonDane
> RV-8A - Colorado
> www.rv8a.com
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
I am finishing an RV-6A with an 0-320 engine fitted with an Air Flow
Performance Fuel injection. When I tried to mate the lower cowl air
scoop to the lower cowl, it would not fit over Van's standard 0-320 FAB.
The AFP throttle body sits almost exactly one inch lower than a Lycoming
carb. Van's solution is that I need an 0-360 air scoop, with the caveat
that "if that doesn't work, I may have to switch to a FAB 360 AP air
box." The 0-360 air scoop sells for $60 plus shipping, the FAB 360 AP
air box costs $120 plus shipping.
Surely I'm not the only one out there with this set up, but Van's seemed
unsure as how I should correct it. Is there anybody else out there with
an 0-320 and a AFP Fuel Injection? What airscoop/FAB did you use to
solve the problem? If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
Message 18
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--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Does anyone here have access to a wiring "pin input and output" for a
Sigtronics SPA400 intercom? I don't have access to the Internet here so I
need it in email format.
Weasel -4
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
Charlie Brame wrote:
> If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
>scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
>
>
>
I would bet you could not measure any difference in drag. When I changed
from an O-320 to an O-360
I use my old O-320 scoop. I cut it off and glassed it back on where I
wanted it to be to accommodate the
large carburetor.
Jerry
Message 20
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| Subject: | replace starter for io-360/induction snorkel fit |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel doesn't
fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit around
or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby also
add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters on
the other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything that appears to be a time saver in the end
seem to require additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel doesn't
fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit around
or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby also
add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters on the
other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything thatappears to be a time saverin the endseem
torequire additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Plenum Cowl... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
Sam James (http://www.jamesaircraft.com) sells individual rings. I bought
one of his machined aluminum rings for my ram air inlet. They're a little
pricey if I recall, but for a perfectly machined piece of aluminum it's
worth it if you don't have your own machine shop (wish I did).
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
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