Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:41 AM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Kevin Horton)
2. 05:58 AM - Re: Intercom wiring (Williams Hildred)
3. 06:33 AM - Re: replace starter for io-360/induction snorkel fit (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
4. 06:43 AM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Gary Zilik)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Lycoming Shaking (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
6. 07:15 AM - Plenum cowl rings (Don/Marcia Piermattei)
7. 07:41 AM - Re: Plenum cowl rings (Maureen & Bob Christensen)
8. 08:03 AM - Re: Lycoming Shaking (Bob J)
9. 08:09 AM - Mexico fee structure update (Dan Checkoway)
10. 09:08 AM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
11. 09:15 AM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
12. 09:35 AM - Sub Assembly storage ... (John Spicer)
13. 09:57 AM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Dr. Peter Laurence)
14. 10:02 AM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Jim Cimino)
15. 10:20 AM - Fuselage Stand (Albert Gardner)
16. 10:28 AM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Mickey Coggins)
17. 11:02 AM - RV7 weight & balance (Steve Nyman)
18. 12:15 PM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (John Spicer)
19. 01:14 PM - Re: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem (Mike Robertson)
20. 01:50 PM - O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ ()
21. 02:57 PM - Thanks to all (smoothweasel@juno.com)
22. 04:14 PM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
23. 05:05 PM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Charlie Kuss)
24. 05:39 PM - Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux (Ronnie Brown)
25. 06:06 PM - Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux (Bruce Bell)
26. 06:24 PM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Martin Hone)
27. 07:05 PM - Re: Ideas on painting panel? (Greg.Puckett@united.com)
28. 07:26 PM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (Charlie England)
29. 07:26 PM - Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) (Martin Hone)
30. 07:30 PM - Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux (LarryRobertHelming)
31. 07:36 PM - Re: Sub Assembly storage ... (LarryRobertHelming)
32. 07:56 PM - Re: Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) (GMC)
33. 08:29 PM - Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux (Vincent Osburn)
34. 08:57 PM - Re: Ideas on painting panel? (Greg.Puckett@united.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>
>The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
>told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
>fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
>Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
>plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
>too.
>
Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
thing.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Williams Hildred" <WilliamsJrHildred@JohnDeere.com>
The diagram is available in a PDF emailable format from Mark Kelley at
Sigtronics. Email ID ==> info [info@sigtronics.com]
Hildred Williams
WilliamsHildred@JohnDeere.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
smoothweasel@juno.com
Subject: RV-List: Intercom wiring
--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Does anyone here have access to a wiring "pin input and output" for a
Sigtronics SPA400 intercom? I don't have access to the Internet here so
I
need it in email format.
Weasel -4
do not archive
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: replace starter for io-360/induction snorkel fit |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Hi Lucky,
I used the Sky-Tek starter part number 149-12LS available from Aircraft
Spruce.
BTW check below for how I received your post.
Dan Hopper
Walton IN
RV-7A N766DH
In a message dated 1/4/05 11:17:28 PM US Eastern Standard Time, luc
kymacy@comcast.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel
doesn't fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit
around or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby
also add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters
on the other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be
tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything that appears to be a time saver in the
end seem to require additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
I have an OEM Prestolite starter on my IO-360 and the induction snorkel
doesn't fit because the starter sticks down too far.
Anyone run across this and come up with solution to share?
I could hack up the snorkel a bit and add a bubble inside it to make it fit
around or buy a different starter that fits the snorkel without modifying it.
Hacking up the snorkel and restricting it's air flow slightly will probalby
also add performance reducing turbulence so that doesn't feel good. Starters
on the other hand are expensive but if I can save 8 pounds it might be
tempting.
darn snorkel....why does everything thatappears to be a time saverin the
endseem torequire additional work itself? sigh...
do not archive
lucky
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Kevin,
I had silicon airseals all the way around the cowl inlets which sealed
very well.
Gary
Kevin Horton wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton <khorton01@rogers.com>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
>>
>>The main reason I installed a plenum in the first place was that I was
>>told (via the RV-LIST) that the top cowl will balloon out along the
>>fuselage hinge line due to the pressure exerted by the cooling air.
>>Well, Im here to tell you mine balloons the same with or without the
>>plenum. Go figure! Oh, I almost forgot, I thought the plenum looked cool
>>too.
>>
>
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
> thing.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 1/4/05 5:34:52 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
lwalters2@cfl.rr.com writes:
Charlie may post a more thorough answer, but think thermal expansion
instead of stretching.
What I wanted to comment on, since you have your engine apart is
fretting on the bearing saddles.where the case parts. If you're going
to overhaul your engine (properly IMHO) you should ship your case off to
a facility like Divco and have it gone through. Have them install the
through-bolt collars (to prevent fretting) and the piston oil sprayers
if they're not already there.
Linn
do not archive
Linn,
The thermal coefficient of expansion of aluminum is 24 parts per million per
degree C. Steel is half of that, or 12 ppm/degree C. That's a lot of
degrees C. to get 3/16 inch! The whole engine (crankcase and accessory case)
is
about 20 inches long. 3/16 divided by 20 is 9375 parts per million. Divide
that by 24 is 391 degrees C rise, or 703 degrees F rise. I doubt if the case
gets that hot, but we are at least in the same order of magnitude. I guess
half could be thermal and half could be vibration, at least out at the
cylinder heads. Interesting.
Thanks for the advice on the engine. I was planning on Divco, and have
talked to them already. It already has the oil sprayers. I will mention the
collars to them. The case shows very little fretting. This is a "spare"
engine, I have another one in the airplane. This is a core I picked up while
building the plane, then came across an engine ready to go. I got in a hurry
and
bought it -- off eBay! Its been a great engine, by the way. These are both
200 HP IO-360 angle valve engines. The one in the airplane has
counterweights, the one apart does not.
Do not archive.
Regards,
Dan Hopper
Walton IN
RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Plenum cowl rings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier@lamar.colostate.edu>
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the "holy
cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
Bill,
Another source of rings is Richard Martin, Green Bay WI, 920/432-4845
Don Piermattei
RV-9A
Carr CO
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum cowl rings |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste@danvilletelco.net>
I'm pretty sure the Richard Martin used the "Sam James cowl"??
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier@lamar.colostate.edu>
Subject: RV-List: Plenum cowl rings
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Don/Marcia Piermattei"
<dlpier@lamar.colostate.edu>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane <bill@vondane.com>
>
> I seem to remember someone talking about just buying the rings for the
"holy
> cowl" so you can roll your own... Anyone know anything about this?
>
> Bill,
> Another source of rings is Richard Martin, Green Bay WI, 920/432-4845
>
> Don Piermattei
> RV-9A
> Carr CO
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Lycoming Shaking |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J <rocketbob@gmail.com>
On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 10:13:45 EST, Hopperdhh@aol.com <Hopperdhh@aol.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
> The thermal coefficient of expansion of aluminum is 24 parts per million per
> degree C. Steel is half of that, or 12 ppm/degree C. That's a lot of
> degrees C. to get 3/16 inch! The whole engine (crankcase and accessory case)
is
> about 20 inches long. 3/16 divided by 20 is 9375 parts per million. Divide
> that by 24 is 391 degrees C rise, or 703 degrees F rise. I doubt if the case
> gets that hot, but we are at least in the same order of magnitude. I guess
> half could be thermal and half could be vibration, at least out at the
> cylinder heads. Interesting.
Dan, an acquaintance of mine who has been involved with quite a few
airframe/powerplant stc's and certifications (a recently notable one
is the Columbia 400) described to me one of the tests that was
performed while in the dyno cell for that particular IO-550/turbo
combination. The way I understood him there is a powerful lamp below
the engine that shines up through the engine with a grid above
appropriately scaled so they can measure the amount of movement of the
cylinders and various components. Apparently things move around quite
a bit. He did say you can actually watch the cylinders move around.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
Message 9
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<rv-list@matronics.com>
| Subject: | Mexico fee structure update |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
This just in from the Baja Bush Pilots. The airspace fee is changing. In
my recent experience they charged 0.80 pesos per liter (about US$0.28 per
gallon). It worked out to about $9 whenever I topped off. Now it's
actually supposed to be fixed, which will be slightly cheaper for us small
time RVators when we top off.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Major fee change in Mexico - 1/5/2005
Mexico has added a new fixed fee "air space" tax that is to be paid each
time you purchase fuel be it one gallon or one hundred gallons. The fuel tax
has been discontinued. For most foreign pilots, this is how it works:
For an aircraft with a wingspan up to:
10 meters, (33') the tax is N$70 or about US$7.00
11.1 meters, (36') the tax is N$100 or about US$10.00
12.5 meters, (40') the tax is N$150 or about US$15.00
There are several problems with this however; at this point, they don't
specify what the charge is for aircraft that have a wingspan in excess of 40
'. We are getting reports from both Mexican and American pilots that the
tax goes from US$300 for a King Air up to US$1,200 for a Jet. (I don't
know what they are going to charge for our aircraft which is 49')
This is not a DGAC tax and the people at the DGAC (the Airport Commanders)
have no control over it.
We are talking to Mexico about this at this time however; it is a major
issue that will create a lot of confusion for all sized aircraft.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/5/05 4:43:37 AM Central Standard Time,
khorton01@rogers.com writes:
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> and the plenum? That is possibly the hardest job about the whole
> thing.
>>>>
On my dual aluminum plenums I opted to do no sealing at all to see if it was
necessary- easy to goop it up later and I wanted to avoid the mess if I had to
make modifications. Initial flight testing in January made this decision
easier. There are quite a few holes and gaps where leakage must be occuring on
mine, but they cool quite nicely with no sealant so far even on 90+ degree days
here in TN on my 150hp Lyc- bigger, badder motors may not get by so easily...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - 6A, 144 hours
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
In a message dated 1/5/05 8:43:48 AM Central Standard Time,
zilik@excelgeo.com writes:
> Gary - What did you do to minimize air leaks between the cowl inlet
> >and the plenum?
>>>
Duh- after re-read I see you asked specifically about the INLETS- I used the
kit-supplied baffle seal material that came with the kit with 1/2-3/4" gaps
between the inlets and the plenums (pleni?). A "U"-shaped piece across the
bottom half all the way up the sides that tuck inside the plenum inlet while
installing the cowl, and another strip across the top half that just lays on top
of
the plenum roof... Again, not a perfect seal, but I ain't aguing with
results!
Sorry- I'll read more closely before sending next time! 8-(
Mark
Message 12
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| Subject: | Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and will
need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out of the
way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the next few
years.
-- John (RV-9A)
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dr. Peter Laurence" <Dr.Laurence@mbdi.org>
John
Here is how I did mine.
Placed them on my couches in the living room and sealed the entrance way
with plywood , screws and liquid nails.
Ha! now let those cats try and get to them.
Peter
do not archive
...
>
>
> Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
> will
> need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out
> of the
> way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
> anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the
> next few
> years.
>
> -- John (RV-9A)
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino@echoes.net>
When I was building my -8, I built racks for the wall to put the rudder,
V-stab, and elevators on and mounted it in my basement. I then built two
racks for the ceiling for the wings and the H-stab. I used carpet to
cushion them on the racks...worked well. I did not cover them, so I had to
remove some dust, but that was it. If you lived near me, you could have
them.
Jim
Jim Cimino
RV-8 SN 80039
150+ Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
Subject: RV-List: Sub Assembly storage ...
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
>
> Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
will
> need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out
of the
> way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
> anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the
next few
> years.
>
> -- John (RV-9A)
>
> www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
> www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>
>
Message 15
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut@worldnet.att.net>
If any of you builders are looking for cheap engine stands, I just got a
Northern Tool + Equipment catalog in the mail, (flyer 1515) and page 5 has a
1250 lb. engine stand on casters for $49. Looks like the stuff I see at
Harbor Freight so maybe it would work for somebody.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
http://www.northerntool.com
1-800-533-5545
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics@rv8.ch>
There are probably as many ways to store these as there
are builders, but I believe stacking them on the top
shelf in the garage (assuming it is fairly dry) wrapped
in an old blanket or sheet, with sticks of styrofoam
between them is a good way. Just make sure they don't
fall down, but are easy to reach when you want to show
your buddies what you're up to.
Mickey
>>Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
>>will
>>need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out
>>of the
>>way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
>>anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the
>>next few
>>years.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
Message 17
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| Subject: | RV7 weight & balance |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Steve Nyman" <nyman@bellsouth.net>
I'm on the road and don't have the manual with me. Does anyone have Van's basic
numbers for calculating the w&b for the RV7 they can send me. Just got the
airplane weighed and it came in at 1104. I would like to do a preliminary calculation
and then take measurements when I get back.
Thanks in advance,
Steve
7QB
MEM
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
Thanx guys for some good ideas. It doesn't sound like people are being too picky
about the storage (except for those with cats.) I appreciate it.
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Charlie,
We installed the same engine on our RV-9A using the fab box that came with
the firewall forward kit and it fit the -9 cowl without modification. It
even lined up with the air inlet on the scope perfectly.
Mike Robertson
>From: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: RV-List <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Lower Cowl Air Scoop Problem
>Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 18:58:43 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Brame <chasb@satx.rr.com>
>
>I am finishing an RV-6A with an 0-320 engine fitted with an Air Flow
>Performance Fuel injection. When I tried to mate the lower cowl air
>scoop to the lower cowl, it would not fit over Van's standard 0-320 FAB.
>The AFP throttle body sits almost exactly one inch lower than a Lycoming
>carb. Van's solution is that I need an 0-360 air scoop, with the caveat
>that "if that doesn't work, I may have to switch to a FAB 360 AP air
>box." The 0-360 air scoop sells for $60 plus shipping, the FAB 360 AP
>air box costs $120 plus shipping.
>
>Surely I'm not the only one out there with this set up, but Van's seemed
>unsure as how I should correct it. Is there anybody else out there with
>an 0-320 and a AFP Fuel Injection? What airscoop/FAB did you use to
>solve the problem? If possible, I would prefer NOT to use the 0-360
>scoop because of its larger frontal area and increased drag.
>
>Charlie Brame
>RV-6A N11CB
>San Antonio
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ |
--> RV-List message posted by: <tomvelvick@cox.net>
O-320 E2A Lycoming Engine 2279 TTSN, first run, disassembled for overhaul. Crankshaft, Cam and Rods have been overhauled by Aircraft Specialities in Tulsa, Ok. Crankshaft has standard grind on rod and main bearings, was not turned down. Crankshaft and rods were also balanced to help the engine run smoother while at Aircraft Specialities. Does not include mags or starter (bendix and heavy old starter) unless you want them for a core, but does include the carburator. This engine has the hollow crank and can be set up for constant speed. Dynafocal mount. $5000.00 I was rebuilding this engine for my rv-6a project, but came across a O-360 A1A with 600 SMOH that I bought. Contact Tom Velvick 623-979-2519 home 623-261-2906 cell see pictures at www.eaa538.org/forsale.html
Message 21
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--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Hey thank you to everyone that sent the info on the spa400 intercom!!!!!!
I got a lot of them now!
Yall are great!
Weasel
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 1/5/05 12:36:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
spike@spikesplace.org writes:
Im just about finished up on some of the sub assemblies for the tail and
will
need to "put them away" until the are needed. Other than putting them out of
the
way, how are you guys protecting your assemblies? Are you wrapping them in
anything? I want to make sure they stay as pristine as possible for the next
few
years.
-- John (RV-9A)
John,
I joined the elevators to the horizontal stab and hung the assembly on the
shop wall with some screw in ladder hooks. Two at the bottom and one at the
top (front) which had to be bent to get the thing unhooked. These are plastic
dipped rods bent to hang ladders on available at the Home Depot type stores.
Worked great. In fact I just looked around and they are still hanging
there with nothing on them anymore. Hmmmm......
I hid the rudder and vertical stab under the bed in the spare bedroom
wrapped in blankets.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
N766DH (Flying since July)
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
John,
Most of us, would simply kill the cats or move the parts, but Peter is
.... shall we say..... odd??? :-)
Charlie Kuss
do not archive
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
>
>Thanx guys for some good ideas. It doesn't sound like people are being too
>picky
>about the storage (except for those with cats.) I appreciate it.
>
>-- John
>
>www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
>www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>
>do not archive
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Ronnie Brown" <romott@adelphia.net>
Folks in the RV community might want to try to head this off in CA - and the rest
of us need to do the same around the country. (It seems the rest of the country
likes to copy the Left Coast tax and spend crowd)!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: Len Johnson
Subject: [Canards] Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
Some of you might remember my tussle with the O.C. CA Tax Assessor in 2003. They
wanted to assess my plans-made, homebuilt airplane at $250,000! They agreed
to reassess it at $37,400 (35K plus sales tax) after presenting an appraisal performed
by Dick Ruttan showing that as the actual value. Well, they just changed
their minds. Given that they know far more about fiberglass canard aircraft
than anyone else in the country including Dick Ruttan, they have just reassessed
it for 2005 at over $140,000. This despite knowing it was in a hard landing,
after seeing proof of an insurance claim, and being told that it is still
disassembled in my hangar as it has been for more than a year.
The assessment goes like this: they figure the materials at $40,000 (today's market-
never mind it was plans built over years). Figuring the time spent building
it, they are assessing the value of all the labor for the time it took to
build, for a total of a little over $90,000 in labor costs. They are supporting
this estimate with the blurb on the official Cozy website on the time it takes
to build, while ignoring the blurb on the cost of materials ($14,000). Then,
they add sales tax to the total. This is called cost-based assessment. They
completely ignore their previous assessment; Dick's appraisal; the damage history;
and that the plane is not even flying. If they pull this off, you can guarantee
it will spread through the rest of California like wildfire, and anyone
with a productive hobby will all have to flee the state, along with the businesses
(mine included- on top of the 65% estimate I just got on my Workmen's Comp
Insurance, I've got one foot in Arizona already. Arizona charges a flat $10
a year for experimentals).
The worst part is, it takes 12-18 months to get a hearing, and you have to pay
the assessment in the meantime. They did this a few weeks ago, but waited until
today (Jan 5) to spring it on me, so I'd be legally bound to the 2005 tax year.
The woman on the phone told me so- can you believe that? When I told her I'd
fight it, she threatened to reassess back to 2003 as well. Isn't that sort
of thing subject to some kind of criminal penalties? Don't they call that extortion?
Anyway, I know of no other experimental anywhere in the country that has been assessed
this way. I know of no other 4 place canard (cozy or aerocanard) that
is worth anywhere near this, of that has been assessed for taxes at even half
this much. This is close to a 4 fold increase. It makes you wonder- do these folks
have any clue what this looks like? 250K to 37K to 140K? Is anyone going
to believe them, given they can't give a single corroborating example anywhere
in the entire country for any of this, and you guys can contribute hundreds?
Help me out here, guys. I need some ammunition. We desperately need to get government
at all levels involved to nip this in the bud, or California is going to
put experimental aircraft dead in their sites.
-- Len
Canards mailing list
Canards@tnstaafl.net
http://mail.tnstaafl.net/mailman/listinfo/canards_tnstaafl.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
My RV4 not completed and still in my garage was valued at $295, 000 by the
Lubbock Central Appraisal District. They said it was in the Aircraft Blue
Book at that! Here we do not have to pay the tax on aircraft used for
private purposes. I was so happy about that I am installing an autopilot.
But I agree there is no standard.
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
Gary,
I was interested to note that you had relatively high CHT and oil temps with
your plenum. Although I have only ever flown my O-320 powered 6 with the
Van's baffle kit converted to a closed plenum by way of a screwed-on top
panel, I have had the opposite problem, except for when I was bedding in the
new engine in 40 degree C temps. Now, at 55- 65% power I am struggling to
keep CHT on all cylinders above 400 F and the front baffle-mounted oil
cooler is 80% covered to get the oil up to 170 F. Lycoming guru Paul
McBride reckons my temps are too low, so I may look at restricting the air
inlet or outlets - and maybe pick up a bit more speed ! One thing that I
did note from your plenum pics - you seem to have a large step in the inlet
section, just aft of the opening for the cowl, that could be causing
stalling/turbulence of the incoming airstream.
I tried to maintain a gradual divergence for just this reason - same
principle that works for P-51's and megaphone exhaust systems.
I agree that access to the top plugs is difficult, but with an electric
screw-driver, it takes only a couple of minutes to remove to top panel.
I'd certainly do it again.
Cheers
Martin in Oz
_____
<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El&SG&RAND68590&pa
rtnerfastutility> Block Spam Emails - Click here!
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Ideas on painting panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Greg.Puckett@united.com
Ron,
I can't remember now who gave me this idea but I love the way it came
out.
http://204.31.68.69/DCP=5F252.JPG
It's black Krylon Wrinkle paint in a rattle can from Checker. I then
sprayed textured grey (or whatever color you want) over top.
It took many days to fully dry with the grey over the wrinkle finish but
when it finally did dry, the finish is extremely durable and absolutely
glare free.
I liked it on the panel so much I used only the black wrinkle paint on
the glare shield and it produced a very nice looking non reflecting
surface.
It takes a little practice and experimenting with temperature/coat
thickness/ and time between coats to get what you want. I found it a
little tough to do small items with this stuff but large areas were easy
to do.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
In near future need to paint panel on Europa XS.
It has a fiberglass Instrument Module that will have 3 aluminium
inserts.
The fiberglass has an eyebrow for glare.
What suggestions on painting=3F Should the bottom of brow be very dark=3F I
imagine the top of the fiberglass does not want to be too dark so it
does
not heat up too much=3F
I imagine I want flat on instrument module and brow, what is preference
out
there for face of panel, light / dark flat or gloss=3F
What ideas for on type of paint to use.
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
If you kill the cats you'll really need to worry. It ain't the cats that
are the problem; it's what the cats eat if you don't feed them well. It
pays to check anything aluminum (inside & out) on a regular basis if
it's stored out of your sight.
Further details of what can happen are left as an excercise for the
reader. ;-)
Charlie (England)
Slobovia Outernational
Jackson MS
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
>John,
> Most of us, would simply kill the cats or move the parts, but Peter is
>.... shall we say..... odd??? :-)
>Charlie Kuss
>
>do not archive
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
>>
>>Thanx guys for some good ideas. It doesn't sound like people are being too
>>picky
>>about the storage (except for those with cats.) I appreciate it.
>>
>>-- John
>>
>>www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
>>www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
>>
>>do not archive
>>
>>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& airspeed) |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" <mctrader@bigpond.net.au>
Um, sorry guys....I meant to say I struggle to get over 300 degrees F, not
400 !!!
Thanks to John for picking this up...
Cheers
Martin
_____
<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El&SG&RAND78154&pa
rtnerfastutility> Block Spam Emails - Click here!
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I'd offer to sell it to them for $140k. Sounds like a fair deal to me and
maybe you too. do not archive.
I never heard of paying sales tax on the value of one's own hourly hobby
time. Maybe you built it in just a week of time? Can they prove it took
500 hours, 2,000 hours? I doubt it. I don't know how much additional tax
there is between $40k and $140k, but if it is significant, I think a
look-see-evaluate visit with an tax lawyer might be worth while to see what
your options are. You have, it seems, gotten a little bit to far on the
wrong side of the tax assessor. Do they have any leave way? Ask them what
your options are. Try to be more open to working with them. Don't push
back right off when you hear something you don't like from them. Get
informed on your rights. I would you would not do this, buuttt,,,,,Maybe
some flowers or candy could be given to soften the other side up, or a cigar
if its a man. Maybe you can promise a ride in the plane when its done and
flying.
Indiana Larry
>
>
> Help me out here, guys. I need some ammunition. We desperately need to get
government at all levels involved to nip this in the bud, or California is
going to put experimental aircraft dead in their sites.
>
>
> -- Len
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Sub Assembly storage ... |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
I moved my assembled tail assemblies into the house basement where it is
climate controlled and hung them from the ceiling. No problems after 3
years.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sub Assembly storage ...
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
>
> John,
> Most of us, would simply kill the cats or move the parts, but Peter is
> .... shall we say..... odd??? :-)
> Charlie Kuss
>
> do not archive
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "John Spicer" <spike@spikesplace.org>
> >
> >Thanx guys for some good ideas. It doesn't sound like people are being
too
> >picky
> >about the storage (except for those with cats.) I appreciate it.
> >
> >-- John
> >
> >www.rivetbangers.com - A marriage of web and mail, no ads, just builders
> >www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
> >
> >do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) |
--> RV-List message posted by: GMC <gmcnutt@shaw.ca>
1) Did I read that right, you are trying to keep your CHT's over 400F. ?? I
don't have a Lycoming operators manual for the 0-320 however the 0-360
manual states that at the Bayonet location "for maximum service life of the
engine maintain CHT between 150F. and 400F. during continuous operation".
Most of the RV 0-320's I have experience with cruise at about 330F. - 350F.
CHT on a standard day measured at Bayonet.
2) can anyone out there tell me why a plenum should be any more efficient
than well sealed baffles, (no, my cowl does not bulge out in flight).
George in Langley BC
6A flying
7A wings
----------
I was interested to note that you had relatively high CHT and oil temps with
your plenum. Although I have only ever flown my O-320 powered 6 with the
Van's baffle kit converted to a closed plenum by way of a screwed-on top
panel, I have had the opposite problem, except for when I was bedding in the
new engine in 40 degree C temps. Now, at 55- 65% power I am struggling to
keep CHT on all cylinders above 400 F and the front baffle-mounted oil
cooler is 80% covered to get the oil up to 170 F. Lycoming guru Paul
McBride reckons my temps are too low, so I may look at restricting the air
inlet or outlets - and maybe pick up a bit more speed ! One thing that I
did note from your plenum pics - you seem to have a large step in the inlet
section, just aft of the opening for the cowl, that could be causing
stalling/turbulence of the incoming airstream.
I tried to maintain a gradual divergence for just this reason - same
principle that works for P-51's and megaphone exhaust systems.
I agree that access to the top plugs is difficult, but with an electric
screw-driver, it takes only a couple of minutes to remove to top panel.
I'd certainly do it again.
Cheers
Martin in Oz
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Vincent Osburn" <flyby41@earthlink.net>
A friend who lives in Kern County Ca. had been taxed many years for an
airplane that was dimantled in his hanger which he paid until they raised
the tax dramatically one year. He called the assessor (yes, you can call
him in Kern Co.) and told him the plane was "dismantled and not airworthy
and why are you taxing me so much all of a sudden.". They don't tax him
anything now. Apparently a dismantled non air worthy airplane is pile of
parts unless it's assembled and in annuall? Is that not so for RV builders
or anyones airplane that is in the process of being completed or built?
When does an airplane become an airplane and when does an airplane cease
being an airplane? I don't know anything. I'm just throwing a few thoughts/
arguments for consideration.
> [Original Message]
> From: Bruce Bell <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 1/5/2005 6:05:33 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Orange County CA Tax Assessor, Redux
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74@sbcglobal.net>
>
> My RV4 not completed and still in my garage was valued at $295, 000 by
the
> Lubbock Central Appraisal District. They said it was in the Aircraft Blue
> Book at that! Here we do not have to pay the tax on aircraft used for
> private purposes. I was so happy about that I am installing an autopilot.
> But I agree there is no standard.
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 # 2888
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Ideas on painting panel? |
--> RV-List message posted by: Greg.Puckett@united.com
Oops,
I meant for that to go to Aeroelectric-list
do not archive
Ron,
I can't remember now who gave me this idea but I love the way it came
out.
http://204.31.68.69/DCP=5F252.JPG
It's black Krylon Wrinkle paint in a rattle can from Checker. I then
sprayed textured grey (or whatever color you want) over top.
It took many days to fully dry with the grey over the wrinkle finish but
when it finally did dry, the finish is extremely durable and absolutely
glare free.
I liked it on the panel so much I used only the black wrinkle paint on
the glare shield and it produced a very nice looking non reflecting
surface.
It takes a little practice and experimenting with temperature/coat
thickness/ and time between coats to get what you want. I found it a
little tough to do small items with this stuff but large areas were easy
to do.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
In near future need to paint panel on Europa XS.
It has a fiberglass Instrument Module that will have 3 aluminium
inserts.
The fiberglass has an eyebrow for glare.
What suggestions on painting=3F Should the bottom of brow be very dark=3F I
imagine the top of the fiberglass does not want to be too dark so it
does
not heat up too much=3F
I imagine I want flat on instrument module and brow, what is preference
out
there for face of panel, light / dark flat or gloss=3F
What ideas for on type of paint to use.
Thx.
Sincerely
Ron Parigoris
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