---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/10/05: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:34 AM - Away from home (PGLong@aol.com) 2. 04:44 AM - Re: Fuel Gauge VS PTT (Larry Bowen) 3. 04:44 AM - Re: Away from home (CBRxxDRV@aol.com) 4. 05:29 AM - five year RV8 report (Brian Denk) 5. 05:36 AM - Re: uestion (LarryRobertHelming) 6. 05:52 AM - RV-9 Up Elevator Stop (Pete Howell) 7. 05:58 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Bryan Jones) 8. 06:35 AM - Re: OT: leather jacket restoration?? (George Neal E Capt AU/PC) 9. 06:47 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Larry Bowen) 10. 07:01 AM - 3rd Annual, 1300+hr report (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 11. 07:29 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Bryan Jones) 12. 07:45 AM - Re: five year RV8 report (SportAV8R@aol.com) 13. 07:47 AM - Re: Away from home (Finn Lassen) 14. 07:48 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Brian Denk) 15. 07:58 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Larry Bowen) 16. 08:01 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Brian Denk) 17. 08:05 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Brian Denk) 18. 08:45 AM - Re: RV-List Plenum closure (& CHT) (LeastDrag93066@aol.com) 19. 08:57 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Bryan Jones) 20. 09:12 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Bryan Jones) 21. 09:15 AM - Rv folks in Nashville area (Charles Heathco) 22. 09:48 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Larry Bowen) 23. 09:51 AM - Re: five year RV8 report - gear bolting (Larry Bowen) 24. 10:00 AM - Eyeball firewall pass throughs (emrath@comcast.net) 25. 10:25 AM - Re: Eyeball firewall pass throughs (Dan Checkoway) 26. 11:35 AM - Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit (Jerry2DT@aol.com) 27. 11:58 AM - Re: Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit (Scott Bilinski) 28. 01:48 PM - plenums (Wheeler North) 29. 02:25 PM - battery charging (Wheeler North) 30. 03:44 PM - Re: five year RV8 report (Mike Robertson) 31. 03:52 PM - Parts Reuse Tolerances (Valovich, Paul) 32. 03:52 PM - Re: battery charging (John Furey) 33. 03:52 PM - Re: RV-9 Up Elevator Stop (Mike Robertson) 34. 04:01 PM - Re: plenums (John Furey) 35. 04:19 PM - Re: Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 36. 05:32 PM - Re: battery charging (Bill Dube) 37. 06:17 PM - canopy bow drag (Larry James) 38. 07:16 PM - RC Allen Electric Gyro for RV For Sale.... (Alfred Klewin) 39. 07:18 PM - Re: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag (u2nelson) 40. 08:12 PM - Re: battery charging (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 41. 08:33 PM - Re: Parts Reuse Tolerances (NAS 1097 rivets) (GMC) 42. 09:52 PM - Re: RV-List - 01/09/05 (EMAproducts@aol.com) 43. 11:05 PM - Re: battery charging (Chris W) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:42 AM PST US From: PGLong@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Away from home --> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com I'm temporarily stuck in Florida. Anyone at ZPH with an RV to show off or need some help? I left my RV4 home and wish I had it here. Pat Long PGLong@aol.com N.B. RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Gauge VS PTT From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Belly, right side, probably less than 18" from the connection and wiring on the right tank. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Doug Gray said: > --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray > > Where is your VHF antenna mounted? > Doug Gray > > Ed Bundy wrote: >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Bundy" >> >> Interesting. I have an EI engine monitor, and when I key the PTT the >> red >> warning LED illuminates for the CHT and EGT windows and the numeric >> readings >> change. Everything goes back to normal when I release the PTT. This >> has >> been going on since I first flew 7 years ago. Someone opined that >> putting a >> choke on the feed wires might help. I haven't been that bothered by it >> to >> do anything, but I'd be interested to know if/how you fix it. >> >> Ed Bundy - Eagle, Idaho >> RV6A 600+ hours >> >> >> >>>I have a EI capacitance fuel gauge in my RV-8. Recently I >>>noticed that the >>>indicators lights for the right side read empty when I key the PTT >>> switch. >>>When I'm done transmitting, it returns to an accurate value. >>>Cool, eh? Is >>>this likely a ground issue? When first powered on, the gauge does a >>> self >>>test and will show OPEN if there is a ground issue, but mine >>>passes the self >>>test. Has anyone else seen this? >>> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:35 AM PST US From: CBRxxDRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Away from home --> RV-List message posted by: CBRxxDRV@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/05 7:36:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, PGLong@aol.com writes: > I'm temporarily stuck in Florida. Anyone at ZPH with an RV to show off or > need some help? I left my RV4 home and wish I had it here. > Don't forget the RV fly-in at Lakeland this weekend. (Saturday) You are only 30mins away by car......10mins by RV. I was at ZPH yesterday :( do not archive RV-4 RV-8 QB ....wing Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:29:47 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RV-List: five year RV8 report --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" Listers, I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how time flies when you're having LOTS of fun! I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of safety concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one to help reduce stress risers. The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on the left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more flexible solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. So, I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel and he thought that a different alloy might be the best option....5150....if I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty good for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit. The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil warmup flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's that doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the airplane and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. So, anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the fairing, along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I never really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV or proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks in there. Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past year! Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell ya. Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel is getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but I'll get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with lots of shopping carts.... And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, last year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80. Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the other day but I cannot substantiate that claim. So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get done soon enough. Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV? Nirvana? Heaven on Earth? Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:48 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: uestion --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I got some sub flooring material for this purpose from my interior and seat shop maker, Flightline Interiors. Send an email to Abby at erdmannb@execpc.com if you are interested in seeing if they sell it direct. It looks like a black insulated styrofoam-like material. Will insulate temps and isolate sounds very well. It is thick enough to sit above the tops of the floor angles. I haven't tried the fire proof test. Good question for Abby. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky) > --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net > > > The total thikness, of this material is about 3/16, lower than the > angles... sooo... what can I use to bring insulation to be flush with angles, > so when carpet is installed, will be, perfectly flush... > > I appreciate suggestions, prefer, fire prof material... > > > Thanks > > > Bertrv6a > > Do Not archive > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:17 AM PST US From: "Pete Howell" Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Up Elevator Stop --> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" Hello, I am mounting my VS and am confused as to if the F-912D elevator stop should be drilled and bolted to the VS first or the fuselage first. It might not matter, and the instructions are a bit ambiguous. Thanks, Pete ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:05 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" Brian - Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque? After my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue then. Thanks Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs Houston > >I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how time >flies when you're having LOTS of fun! > >I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of >safety >concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has >failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly >surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well >before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one >to help reduce stress risers. > >The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a >mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on >the >left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more flexible >solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. So, >I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel >and he thought that a different alloy might be the best >option....5150....if >I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so >I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty >good >for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit. > >The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the >windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil >warmup >flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's that >doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the airplane >and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the >startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. So, >anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the fairing, >along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I >never >really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the >front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV >or >proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks >in >there. > >Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past >year! > Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell ya. >Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel is >getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but I'll >get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with >lots of shopping carts.... > >And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO >BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, last >year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80. >Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the >other day but I cannot substantiate that claim. > >So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of >sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get >done >soon enough. > >Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV? >Nirvana? Heaven on Earth? > >Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane. > >Brian Denk >RV8 N94BD >RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:35:33 AM PST US From: George Neal E Capt AU/PC Subject: RE: RV-List: OT: leather jacket restoration?? --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/PC Charlie - Try LeatherNew from your favorite tack shop. Neal >A friend has given me an old leather flying jacket. The leather is dry & stiff. Is there a preferred method of restoring the leather? The last time I worried about treating leather was oiling my baseball glove with neatsfoot oil as a kid. Thanks, Charlie < ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:47 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a socket on them. Maybe it could be done if I remove a couple of those #8 screws in that area. It's be fun reinstalling them -- not! Do you experienced guys have any other advice? - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Bryan Jones said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > Brian - > > Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was > wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque? > After > my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue > then. > > Thanks > > Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs > Houston > >> >>I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how >> time >>flies when you're having LOTS of fun! >> >>I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of >>safety >>concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has >>failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not >> terribly >>surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well >>before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next >> one >>to help reduce stress risers. >> >>The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a >>mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on >>the >>left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more >> flexible >>solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. >> So, >>I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel >>and he thought that a different alloy might be the best >>option....5150....if >>I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so >>I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty >>good >>for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit. >> >>The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the >>windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil >>warmup >>flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's >> that >>doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the >> airplane >>and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the >>startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. >> So, >>anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the >> fairing, >>along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I >>never >>really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the >>front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV >>or >>proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks >>in >>there. >> >>Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past >>year! >> Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell >> ya. >>Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel >> is >>getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but >> I'll >>get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with >>lots of shopping carts.... >> >>And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO >>BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, >> last >>year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80. >>Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the >>other day but I cannot substantiate that claim. >> >>So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of >>sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get >>done >>soon enough. >> >>Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV? >>Nirvana? Heaven on Earth? >> >>Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane. >> >>Brian Denk >>RV8 N94BD >>RV10 '51 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:12 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: 3rd Annual, 1300+hr report From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" I just completed my 3rd annual and 1300+hours on the plane. I only had one item noteworthy. The airbox, as others have suggested, has been a source of trouble for me too. I also have suffered from cracked plates and so forth. For now I have 600 hours on the last fix where I doubled the plate thickness. Before doubling the plate I was only good for about 300 hours/plate. Holding for now BUTTTTT, now the filter has rubbed completely through the bottom of the fiberglass where my filter was half hanging out the bottom. It had worked completely through the box, a nice circular ring following the lines of the filter on the fwd half of the box. The good news is that the fix was much easier than the cracked plate was. Just throw some new glass on there and be done with it. I have about 2" separating the box from the cowl air inlet with rubber baffling material as a buffer, but all that shake, rattle and rollin really takes its toll I guess. New tires and brakes all around, including my sissy wheel, new plugs ($1.50 ea auto plugs on dual lightspeed ignition Nice!), fixed some electrical gremlins where a wire had broke at the pin (Molex connectors on the passenger stick), couple chaffing items to deal with, intake hose coupling from intake tube to sump getting heat damage got replaced and some aluminum cowl tape now will prevent that, All cylinders exactly 77/80. SWEET! No doubt flying several hundred hours a year doesn't hurt. I fly hard and often. End of report Mike S8 canopy PS, looks like the new list server upgrades are working cause Im getting messages from the list now with only a few minutes delay. Good work Matt. Nice to see the donations getting put to good work:-) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:13 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" >I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard >bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a >socket on them. Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear and curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom of the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned about how you're going to get back out!! :) Bryan do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:35 AM PST US From: SportAV8R@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: five year RV8 report --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of safety concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one to help reduce stress risers ----------- Brian: your next one from Van's is gonna be steel, not aluminum. Been there, done that; new one looks plenty beefy and helps ballast the CG forward ;-) -Bill B RV-6A ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:37 AM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: Re: RV-List: Away from home --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen Call Sven Sorvic 813-843-1212. I think he needs help finishing his RV-4. Finn PGLong@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: PGLong@aol.com > >I'm temporarily stuck in Florida. Anyone at ZPH with an RV to show off or >need some help? I left my RV4 home and wish I had it here. > >Pat Long >PGLong@aol.com >N.B. >RV4 >Bay City, Michigan >3CM > >Do Not Archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:41 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > >I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard > >bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a > >socket on them. > >Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear >and >curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom of >the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned >about how you're going to get back out!! :) > >Bryan > Amen, Brutha Bryan! I think I had back pain and bruised wrists for a week after getting in there to tighten those !*&# $ nuts. There's gotta be a better way. I kludged up a piece of an old box wrench and a socket. Glued 'em together with JB Weld and ground as needed to fit. Still really a major PITA. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:24 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut that I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Bryan Jones said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > >>I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard >>bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a >>socket on them. > > Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear > and > curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom of > the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned > about how you're going to get back out!! :) > > Bryan > > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:28 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" Brian - > >Good to hear your report. Coming up on my 5th year this spring. Was >wondering if you checked the gear bolts for tightness/proper torque? After >my first retorque at 75-hrs or so, I've spot checked them once. No issue >then. > >Thanks > >Bryan Jones -8 699.8 hrs >Houston BJ, I had the same experience. Gear legs got downright squeeky (read: LOOSE) after about 50 hours. Stuffed myself down in there, cussed, whined, b*tched and moaned, and cranked 'em down tight. I applied just shy of gorilla torque and they haven't budged since. Good thing, cuz I was eyeing the welder as the final solution. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:45 AM PST US From: "Brian Denk" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them >is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut that >I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that >tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts >that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. > >Thanks, > >- >Larry Bowen Larry, Now that you've brought up this painful subject *smack!*, I do recall modifying the fasteners around the nuts in the weldments. I replaced a couple of the screws/nuts with some big honkin' pop rivets that I found at a military surplus store. They look identical to the CS4-4's we all know and love, but are the same shank size as the screws they replace. I popped them in there and they allow just barely enough clearance for a ground down socket to access the nuts. I know this doesn't really fix your problem but I found it to be the only way to get it done. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:23 AM PST US From: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Plenum closure (& CHT) --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Hi All, The Jim Hasper comment below is a major breakthrough on RV-list engine cooling thinking. The "plenum" described is a duct. Actually two sealed constant volume cross section ducts with smooth turns and large corner radii. One duct on each side of the engine. Please add this to the archives. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 01/10/2005 12:07:30 AM Pacific Standard Time, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes: Time: 04:31:35 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Re: Plenum closure (& CHT) From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com (Stuff Cut) The ideal plenum would maintain a constant cross-sectional area from the inlet, through the spaces around the cylinders, and back through the cowl toward the rear of the plane. It would minimize the number of turns and make any necessary turns as smooth and of as large a radius as possible Jim Hasper - RV-7 Giving new meaning to the term "slow build" (See - I KNEW I shouldn't have started this. Another evening spent punching keys instead of pounding rivets) Franklin, TN ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:55 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" Have you tried a box-end wrench - heat and bend the neck(?) at a 90 or so angle. Cut relief slots in the end of the box (like a spark plug wrench). Welded to a socket exptension. Not pretty, but might work. Hold stready at top, and have someone drive from the bottom. > >I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them >is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut that >I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that >tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts >that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. > >Thanks, > >- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com > >Bryan Jones said: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > > >>I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard > >>bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a > >>socket on them. > > > > Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear > > and > > curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom >of > > the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned > > about how you're going to get back out!! :) > > > > Bryan > > > > do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:27 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" Another idea that I think I remember using on the nuts that were really close to something down there. Just wedge something between the flat and the weldment or whatever is close. Hold stready at top, and have someone drive from the bottom. I seem to remember doing this too. Sorry - but the memories are fuzzy now. Maybe a natural negative memory purge! :) Don't get me wrong though - the hassle with the gear is a very small price to pay for the most incredible flying machine I have ever flown in! Every flight is amazing - just yesterday the plane was near 50% so I *had* to go get fuel! Can you believe, while visiting a couple of the local aerodromes I ended up having to make 3-4 "go-arounds" (at full throttle in accodance with needing to go-around of course) while among the local spam can aviators, a little RV acro followed up by some low-level over the sparsly used parts of the bay (watch those seagulls!). Then I *finally* made it to the self serve fuel! officially rambling now... >I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them >is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut that >I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that >tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts >that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. > >Thanks, > >- >Larry Bowen >Larry@BowenAero.com >http://BowenAero.com > >Bryan Jones said: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > > >>I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two outboard > >>bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a > >>socket on them. > > > > Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - swear > > and > > curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom >of > > the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously concerned > > about how you're going to get back out!! :) > > > > Bryan > > > > do not archive > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:15:57 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Rv folks in Nashville area --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" Any folks around Nashville, specifically at Cornelius Fort M88 ? you can email me your replys. Charlie heathco. cheathco@comcast.net Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 09:48:59 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" No, I haven't. I will. A+ for creativity! Can you verify the size wrench/socket used? I wasn't even able to close enough to verify I was using the right size. Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Bryan Jones said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > Have you tried a box-end wrench - heat and bend the neck(?) at a 90 or so > angle. Cut relief slots in the end of the box (like a spark plug wrench). > Welded to a socket exptension. Not pretty, but might work. Hold stready > at > top, and have someone drive from the bottom. > >> >>I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them >>is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut >> that >>I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that >>tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts >>that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. >> >>Thanks, >> >>- >>Larry Bowen >>Larry@BowenAero.com >>http://BowenAero.com >> >>Bryan Jones said: >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" >> > >> >>I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two >> outboard >> >>bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a >> >>socket on them. >> > >> > Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - >> swear >> > and >> > curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom >>of >> > the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously >> concerned >> > about how you're going to get back out!! :) >> > >> > Bryan >> > >> > do not archive >> > >> > >> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:51:58 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report - gear bolting From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Another good option. Once I get something jammed in there, I may just leave it for next year. Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Bryan Jones said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > Another idea that I think I remember using on the nuts that were really > close to something down there. Just wedge something between the flat and > the weldment or whatever is close. Hold stready at top, and have someone > drive from the bottom. I seem to remember doing this too. Sorry - but > the > memories are fuzzy now. Maybe a natural negative memory purge! :) > > Don't get me wrong though - the hassle with the gear is a very small price > to pay for the most incredible flying machine I have ever flown in! Every > flight is amazing - just yesterday the plane was near 50% so I *had* to go > get fuel! Can you believe, while visiting a couple of the local > aerodromes > I ended up having to make 3-4 "go-arounds" (at full throttle in accodance > with needing to go-around of course) while among the local spam can > aviators, a little RV acro followed up by some low-level over the sparsly > used parts of the bay (watch those seagulls!). Then I *finally* made it > to > the self serve fuel! officially rambling now... > >>I have access panels in the top skins above the gearbox. Getting to them >>is not the issue. It's that last 1/4" to put the socket over the nut >> that >>I can't do. Grinding down the socket might not even help, it's that >>tight. I think unscrewing those nearest screws to remove the little nuts >>that are in the way may be the only resolution in my case. >> >>Thanks, >> >>- >>Larry Bowen >>Larry@BowenAero.com >>http://BowenAero.com >> >>Bryan Jones said: >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" >> > >> >>I just did this for the first time a couple days ago. The two >> outboard >> >>bolts, actually the nuts inside the gearbox, are too crowded to get a >> >>socket on them. >> > >> > Custom -8 landing gear tools!! Grind, cut, shave, weld... Then - >> swear >> > and >> > curse as you manage to get yourself wedged upside down into the bottom >>of >> > the plane with your arm stuck in the gear tower; and seriously >> concerned >> > about how you're going to get back out!! :) >> > >> > Bryan >> > >> > do not archive >> > >> > >> > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:00:37 AM PST US From: emrath@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Eyeball firewall pass throughs 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: emrath@comcast.net I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons in using these things? I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent for Van's cables? Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons in using these things? I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent for Van's cables? Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall? Marty in Brentwood TN RV-6A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:25:11 AM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Eyeball firewall pass throughs --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" I'm the one who recently had the retaining nut loosen up on one of my "one-hole eyeball" fittings. A little foresight and loctite would have precluded it. http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041229_loose_ring.jpg http://images.rvproject.com/images/2004/20041229_loose_ring2.jpg )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Eyeball firewall pass throughs > --> RV-List message posted by: emrath@comcast.net > > I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons in using these things? > I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent for Van's cables? > Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall? > Marty in Brentwood TN > RV-6A > > I am about to locate and drill holes in my Firwall for the control cable pass throughs. Recently, in reviewing somebody's web site, I read where they had the nut loosen up on their eyeball pass through and almost come apart. There is a second style available that doesn't use the "single" hole method of attachment and would be more difficult to mount. Anyone have any other pros or cons in using these things? > I thinking of using Van's Steel Eyeball SE961-125S versus the Aluminum version or the TTP-125 one hole version.. Can the steel version be opened up sufficent for Van's cables? > Can someone tell me what side hole the 125S verion requires for the pass through and what the overall dimensions are when mounted on the firewall so I don't crowd other items planned on my firewall? > Marty in Brentwood TN > RV-6A > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:15 AM PST US From: Jerry2DT@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit --> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com JD, I went thru this same drill, even bought the kit, took it home, read instructions. After noodling for a couple days, finally decided that the $171 diff between the new RV7 sheared tips with built in lenses was better for me than fooling around chopping up my tips , installing the kit, etc. This way, I *almost* have an RV7a with the tall tail, even... :) BTW, no shipping involved since I'm next door almost to Van's YMMV. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR RV6a++ In a message dated 1/10/2005 12:07:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes: From: "J D Newsum" Subject: RV-List: Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit --> RV-List message posted by: "J D Newsum" My RV6 kit came with the Standard Flat-Top Wingtips but I would like to incorporate enclosed flush mount strobe and position lights like the newer Sheared Wing Tips have. The Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit that Van's offers in the Accessories Catalog looks like a possible solution. Comments/suggestions from any one who has installed the Airtech lens kit would be appreciated. Thanks in advance JD ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:23 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski Very good choice! Cutting and chopping the old tips for the position lights was a big pain in the A**! At 02:32 PM 1/10/2005 -0500, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry2DT@aol.com > > >JD, > >I went thru this same drill, even bought the kit, took it home, read >instructions. After noodling for a couple days, finally decided that the >$171 diff >between the new RV7 sheared tips with built in lenses was better for me than >fooling around chopping up my tips , installing the kit, etc. This way, I >*almost* have an RV7a with the tall tail, even... :) > >BTW, no shipping involved since I'm next door almost to Van's YMMV. > >Jerry Cochran >Wilsonville, OR >RV6a++ > >In a message dated 1/10/2005 12:07:30 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > >From: "J D Newsum" >Subject: RV-List: Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit > >--> RV-List message posted by: "J D Newsum" > > >My RV6 kit came with the Standard Flat-Top Wingtips but I would like to >incorporate enclosed flush mount strobe and position lights like the newer >Sheared Wing Tips have. The Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit that Van's offers in >the Accessories Catalog looks like a possible solution. >Comments/suggestions from any one who has installed the Airtech lens kit >would be appreciated. > >Thanks in advance >JD > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:48:23 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: plenums --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North Anyone used hinges to fasten the top to the sides as some have suggested for ease of removal? Well, I'm behind on the digest but.... mine has aluminum sides and top, all hinged together, six wires, could be reduced to four, to hold the top on, has worked fine for 800 hours. and Oil Cooler is on firewall, as I have made plenty of money repairing oil cooler to engine installations. W ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:25 PM PST US From: Wheeler North Subject: RV-List: battery charging --> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North AGM batteries have no problem whatsoever with high amperage charging, as long as you don't get them hot enough to melt the plastic case. :-) You can charge an AGM at close to it's CCA rating as long as you limit the voltage to under 15 volts (and watch the temperature if you do more than one cycle.) I still stand by my thoughts that one should not take off with a discharged battery. I can just see myself trying to explain why the semi-charged, semi-smoking, semi-melting battery in the cockpit bolted next to the hot firewall in a tightly closed aluminum box caused me to turn off the electrical system therefore making an emergency NORDO landing. NO BATTERY SHOULD BE CHARGED AT FULL ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WHILE OPERATING THE AIRCRAFT. The alternator does not know how to keep from smoking the battery as it is not current regulated so will try to do this if the battery is fully discharged, regardless of what kind of battery it is. And any battery charging at this much current has the potential to explode. It goes back to mixing "being in a hurry" with "aviation" has the same result as mixing alcohol with guns, boats, cars, or anything else that causes propulsion. A dead battery is always unexpected, causes us to get frustrated, tends make us want to hurry up to get past the obstacle, when in fact we should just chill, take it as sign from the deity of your choice and have lunch while the battery is recharging, after removing it from the airplane. (I know you -4 folks are shuddering at this, but I have seen more than one battery blow up, and they do go with one heck of a bang. I will agree that trickle charging in the aircraft is probably safe, as long as someone is there monitoring it.) I've read all the literature on AGMs as well, but once you've seen a battery melt down or explosion, or ni-cad thermal event, well, you just get kinda leery of not doing what you know is safest, even in spite of who says what about their products/designs/inventions. W ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:58 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: five year RV8 report --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Better yet Brian, Your's ain't at the bottom of the ocean like some I can think of. Mike Robertson DO NOT ARCHIVE >From: "Brian Denk" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: five year RV8 report >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 13:27:46 +0000 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > >Listers, > >I'm currently in the middle of the fifth annual for my RV8. Man, how time >flies when you're having LOTS of fun! > >I'm seeing some signs of wear, but nothing major by any means, nor of >safety >concern. The alternator tension bracket (Van's 35A alternator kit) has >failed. It cracked through the slot for the alternator bolt. Not terribly >surprising, as it's only alloy and the edges weren't dressed very well >before it was anodized. I plan to really polish the edges on the next one >to help reduce stress risers. > >The FAB box mount plate cracked in two places. One is right through a >mounting bolt hole, and the other right along side another hole, both on >the >left side. I tried an idea I had to use phenolic sheet as a more flexible >solution. It just didn't pan out. Seems a bit too flexible actually. So, >I'll just replace it with the same part from Van's. I emailed Gus Funnel >and he thought that a different alloy might be the best >option....5150....if >I wanted to cut out my own part. Don't have the time to mess with it so >I'll just go with a stock replacement. Five years of service is pretty >good >for something that's probably getting thrashed around quite a bit. > >The fairing at the base of the windshield delaminated partially from the >windshield. I noticed some drafts coming right at my face on the oil >warmup >flight before I started the annual. Hmm, now THAT ain't right. It's that >doggone Lycosaur rock 'n roll that seems to twist the front of the airplane >and do the damage here. I've tried every trick in the book to help the >startup/shutdown process to become smoother but nothing seems to help. So, >anyway, I'm grinding off the filler and paint and resurfacing the fairing, >along with running some epoxy down into the area that came unstuck. I >never >really used any form of glue or sealant where the windshield contacts the >front deck skin so I'm going to run a bead of something along there...RTV >or >proseal. It'll all be hidden by the leather glareshield cover that tucks >in >there. > >Tires are in good shape. Probably 'cuz I haven't flown much this past >year! > Gotta fix that. Those Desser retreads are a pretty good deal I tell ya. >Primary airframe is in excellent shape. No problems at all. Tailwheel is >getting a little tired (pun intended). It'll go a few more months but I'll >get another one anyway. Let's see...there's a Super Walmart nearby with >lots of shopping carts.... > >And finally, sweet blessed creator of all things wondrous in aviation, NO >BAD CYLINDERS!! It seemed that every annual I had cracked jugs. So, last >year I installed overhauls on numbers 2 and 4 and now they're all 77/80. >Rumor has it much rejoicing and happy dancing was seen in Hangar E-13 the >other day but I cannot substantiate that claim. > >So it looks like N94BD will be back in the air soon. Still have lots of >sanding, cursing and slop slinging to do on that fairing, but it'll get >done >soon enough. > >Meanwhile, gonna go look at an airpark home today. Living with my RV? >Nirvana? Heaven on Earth? > >Keep poundin' them thar rivets fellers. Yer gonna love yer 'plane. > >Brian Denk >RV8 N94BD >RV10 '51 > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:00 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Parts Reuse Tolerances From: "Valovich, Paul" --> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" I am in the midst of assembling my RV-8A vertical stab and had my first serious "life is a lot harder when you're stupid" building episode by somehow assembling the aft spar with the countersunk holes on the wrong side. I know - how in the hell..............? Anyway, I decided to order new VS-803PP and 808PP components, but try to salvage the 410, 411 and 412 hinge fittings. When I removed the rivets, most of the holes seemed ok, but a few (not more than one in each fitting) were visibly enlarged. I felt that from a strength standpoint I was ok, but wasn't sure about the long term alignment or the possibility of slipping once assembled. I decided to order new hinge components, but wonder what others' thoughts are regarding reusage tolerances when correcting riveting mistakes? Paul Valovich Ridgecrest, CA 661-400-3640 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:00 PM PST US From: "John Furey" Subject: RE: RV-List: battery charging --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on whenever the plane is in the hangar? Thanks John RV6A ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:10 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-9 Up Elevator Stop --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Pete, It does not really matter but it has been found to fit better if you drill and bolt the stop to the vertical fin first, then to the fuselage longerons. Mike Robertson >From: "Pete Howell" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: RV-9 Up Elevator Stop >Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 07:52:12 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Pete Howell" > > >Hello, > >I am mounting my VS and am confused as to if the F-912D elevator stop >should be drilled and bolted to the VS first or the fuselage first. >It might not matter, and the instructions are a bit ambiguous. > >Thanks, > >Pete > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:01:49 PM PST US From: "John Furey" Subject: RE: RV-List: plenums --> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" Yes, My plenums were separated, one for each row of cylinders. I used hinges on all 4 sides of the top of each plenum and it was a good method. Unfortunately I removed the plenums in an act of desperation to lower Cyl head temps before I learned that the casting flash was the problem. I could scan the pictures if anyone desires. John RV6A O-320 ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:04 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Vans Airtech Wingtip Lens Kit --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 01/10/2005 1:59:02 PM Central Standard Time, bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes: Very good choice! Cutting and chopping the old tips for the position lights was a big pain in the A**! >>>> Ditto! Mark do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:42 PM PST US From: Bill Dube Subject: Re: RV-List: battery charging --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube At 02:24 PM 1/10/2005 -0800, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Wheeler North > >AGM batteries have no problem whatsoever with high amperage >charging, as long as you don't get them hot enough to melt the plastic >case. :-) You can charge an AGM at close to it's CCA rating as long as you >limit the voltage to under 15 volts (and watch the temperature if you do >more than one cycle.) > > >I still stand by my thoughts that one should not take off with a discharged >battery. It's wise to have the battery close to fully charged whenever the airplane is in the air. More time to stay running if the alternator quits. >I can just see myself trying to explain why the semi-charged, >semi-smoking, semi-melting battery in the cockpit bolted next to the hot >firewall in a tightly closed aluminum box caused me to turn off the >electrical system therefore making an emergency NORDO landing. Actually, charging is an endothermic reaction. An AGM starting battery does not heat up much during the bulk portion of the charge. The final portion of the charge tends to generate the most heating. The internal resistance of the Hawker AGM that most folk use in their RV airplanes is about 12 milli-ohms. At a 60 amp charge rate this is about 40 watts of heat. If the battery was healthy enough to crank the engine and start it, it will not mind a 60 amp charge. >NO BATTERY SHOULD BE CHARGED AT FULL ALTERNATOR OUTPUT WHILE OPERATING THE >AIRCRAFT. The alternator does not know how to keep from smoking the battery >as it is not current regulated so will try to do this if the battery is >fully discharged, regardless of what kind of battery it is. And any battery >charging at this much current has the potential to explode. Actually, the alternator is more at risk than the AGM battery. A lead-acid battery won't generate gas until the last portion of the charge. It must reach "gassing voltage" which is a bit over 13 volts. Thus, the highest risk for explosion is a battery that is just become fully charged. >It goes back to mixing "being in a hurry" with "aviation" has the same >result as mixing alcohol with guns, boats, cars, or anything else that >causes propulsion. > >A dead battery is always unexpected, causes us to get frustrated, tends make >us want to hurry up to get past the obstacle, when in fact we should just >chill, take it as sign from the deity of your choice and have lunch while >the battery is recharging, after removing it from the airplane. (I know you >-4 folks are shuddering at this, but I have seen more than one battery blow >up, and they do go with one heck of a bang. They (flooded lead-acid, not AGMs) usually blow up from the hydrogen explosion. This happens when they are overcharged (or at the end of the charge cycle.) You also need a spark. Taking the battery in and out sounds like a good way to make the needed spark. If you use a good quality automatic charger, there really is no need to remove the battery from the airplane for charging. I have never seen an AGM burst from being too quickly charged. This is saying something. In electric drag racing, we very often must recharge in less than 15 minutes. Typically, to get these fast charges, the peak current will be hundreds of amps. They push charging currents like this into 13 amp-hr Hawker Genesis AGMs. The AGMs seem to like it, actually. EV drag racers will fast charge even if there is no hurry because the batteries have slightly lower internal resistance and a touch higher amp-hour capacity if you fast charge. They typically use a "dump pack" of larger AGM batteries, like Optima Yellow Tops or Optima group 31s to supply the charging current. They will switch in more batteries in the dump pack as the vehicle batteries fill up and the voltage rises. Conversely, I have seen more than one flooded lead-acid battery explode while someone was monkeying with it. The battery was fully charged in both cases and someone made a spark that touched off the hydrogen near the vents. AGMs are pressurized and have "Bunsen" style vent valves. These valves prevent the flame from traveling back to the gas volume above the cell. You can blow off the plastic strip that covers the vents, but that is about it. It is important not to confuse your past experience with flooded batteries with the modern AGM batteries. AGM batteries are a very different animal. >I will agree that trickle >charging in the aircraft is probably safe, as long as someone is there >monitoring it.) > >I've read all the literature on AGMs as well, but once you've seen a battery >melt down or explosion, or ni-cad thermal event, well, you just get kinda >leery of not doing what you know is safest, even in spite of who says what >about their products/designs/inventions. I've seen plenty of battery melt-downs, fires, and explosions. I've jumped off my bike at the end of the strip with flames coming out of the battery pack. None of these incidents occurred while charging AGMs. They all occurred during severe discharge or short-circuits. On the strip (and in EVs in general) the most common cause of a burst or smoking battery is a cell "reversal." This occurs when a weak battery, in a series of healthy batteries, fully discharges, and then it's terminal voltage reverses. The rest of the batteries in the string force current through the weak battery. The weak battery does not supply energy, but begins to absorb it. If the current is not huge, it doesn't burst or smoke, it will actually charge in reverse. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:18 PM PST US From: "Larry James" "Rocket List" Subject: RV-List: canopy bow drag --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry James" Hi All, I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:21 PM PST US From: Alfred Klewin Subject: RV-List: RC Allen Electric Gyro for RV For Sale.... --> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin RC Allen Electric Gyro for Sale: 3 1/8 in Panel Size 8 degree tilt for RV panel RCA 26AK-2 (14V, Lighted, Electric) SN: 13K0459 8 Months Old Will Yellow Tag with a 1 Year Warrenty from Manufacturer Used for approx. 60 hours as a backup gyro, removing to make room for a different instrument List is $2095.00 through Chief SELL FOR: $1475 Contact: Kurt Klewin, 405-822-8097, or personal email: kklewin@yahoo.com Thanks Do Not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:35 PM PST US From: "u2nelson" Subject: RV-List: RE: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag --> RV-List message posted by: "u2nelson" Actually this is one of the lowest pressure areas, but you are correct that any disturbance there would be bad. I have a slider and I went out of my way to keep the bump as small as possible, to keep the potential drag penalty low. I believe I succeeded, as my rocket is one of the fastest out there. Check out the Reno race results, compare with the other rockets, just a tad behind John and the impressive HRIII, and better than the other HRIIs with flip overs. I think the choice really comes down to better visibility (only marginally) vrs hanging your arm over the edge on a hot day. The slider is really a nice addition IMOP for ground operations. Greg Nelson N144X -----Original Message----- From: owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rocket-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry James Subject: Rocket-List: canopy bow drag --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Larry James" Hi All, I'm still deciding between a tip-over and slider canopy. I was discussing this with a fellow builder this past week, and he offered that he'd seen some fluid dynamic data that showed the very crest of the canopy to be one of the highest pressure areas of the airframe; and therefore any discontinuity in this area would be very draggy. If this is true, another point against a slider. Anyone with some experience with this ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II fuselage/systems ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:12:55 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: battery charging --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 1/10/05 6:52:48 PM US Eastern Standard Time, john@fureychrysler.com writes: So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on whenever the plane is in the hangar? Thanks John RV6A John, If you have a wet cell battery, you can charge it as long as you want to, as long as the electrolyte stays above the plates. When the battery is fully charged, the water starts to leave the solution in the form of oxygen and hydrogen gasses. The water level will start to drop as a result of this overcharging even if it is charging at a very low current (read float). When the electrolyte level gets below the top of the plates, things get pretty dangerous. If a small conductive particle gets between the plates and causes a spark, the O2 and H2 can explode -- big time! I once left a trickle charger on a tractor in the barn, and found it a month later blown all over the barn floor. Luckily, there was no fire. It made a believer of me! Another thing happens if you overcharge a wet cell battery. Gas bubbles form on the plates which causes the battery to not operate at full capacity until after the battery has had time to rewet the plates, after removing the charger. If you leave that charger on continuously, make sure you don't let the electrolyte level get too low. I'm not sure if this applies to gel-cel batteries, or not. However, there is no advantage to overcharging any battery, that I know of. Once it has had enough time to reach full charge, take the charger off. If it is a good battery it will stay charged very nearly full for at least a month in cold weather. Now, some electronic regulators have a constant drain on the battery of a few milliamperes. You may want to determine what this current is before letting the battery stand all winter, or else unhook one terminal of the battery. All this is IMHO! Regards, Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A N766DH ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:47 PM PST US From: GMC Subject: RE: RV-List: Parts Reuse Tolerances (NAS 1097 rivets) --> RV-List message posted by: GMC --> RV-List message posted by: "Valovich, Paul" Big snip ----------- When I removed the rivets, most of the holes seemed ok, but a few (not more than one in each fitting) were visibly enlarged. I felt that from a strength standpoint I was ok, but wasn't sure about the long term alignment or the possibility of slipping once assembled. Hi Paul Get an assortment of "Oops Rivets" (NAS 1097) they are used in oversize holes and have undersize heads so a finished 1/8 rivet looks just like a 3/32 rivet and matches the rest of the rivet line. I see Vans have 1097AD4 size in their catalog but I would recommend Averys "Uh-ow hole saver kit" as it also contains an assortment of the -3 (3/32) size. There were a few hard to reach spots where I had to drill out a rivet twice and on the third attempt it was necessary to drill the hole out to #30 and go to the next larger -4 (1/8) rivet size, third time has always been lucky! I use a lot of the 1097AD3-XX (3/32) rivets because they are really great for mounting plate nuts on thinner skins. The countersink hole for a 1097AD3 is very shallow and can be made with a deburring bit, saves dimpling both the skin and the plate nut lugs if a regular rivet was used. George in Langley BC 6A flying 7A wings ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:55 PM PST US From: EMAproducts@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List - 01/09/05 --> RV-List message posted by: EMAproducts@aol.com Re: RV-List: Fuel Gauge VS PTT This is not an uncommon problem with electronic instruments, On one certified aircraft they flew many hours getting the RiteAngle STC'd, found stray RF from the altitude encoder was corrupting the chip. Repaired a bad connector on the encoder, moved the AOA wiring (flap position display) away from it and certified next flight. Early versions prior to production lit up like a pinball machine when TX was emitted. Easy to fix, but till happens never know ~~ I imagine you have a TX lead going by wiring to the instrument. EI I'm sure can give you a remedy. Good luck, these simple little things drive ya crazy ~~ I know Elbie EM Aviation www.riteangle.com Do not Archive ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 11:05:20 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: battery charging --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >So I take it you would not recommend keeping a "float" type charger on >whenever the plane is in the hangar? > > I don't know how dangerous leaving a lead acid battery on float charge is, but I have read that if you do leave it on float charge you need to be sure the charge voltage is no more than 13.8V for a 12V battery. Any higher and it will damage the battery. That may be why the tractor battery Dan Hopper mentioned had an untimely demise. For a cycle charge, the charge voltage can be as high as 15V. Another option to float charging that is supposed to be better for the battery, is to have the charger on a timer so it comes on for an hour a day. Get to thinking about it, that is for NiCd's. Lead acid batteries go a few weeks before there is much self discharge, where a NiCd self discharges a significant amount in the first 24 hours. If you were going to do that to a lead acid battery, an hour or 2 a week would probably be plenty. Now the trick is finding a timer that lets you go in week long cycles. Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want http://thewishzone.com