---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/24/05: 37 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:25 AM - Re: Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips (LarryRobertHelming) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Paul Besing) 3. 06:01 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (linn walters) 4. 06:21 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Charlie Kuss) 5. 06:24 AM - Re: steering link follow up report (Turbo Tom) 6. 07:10 AM - Re: SEA----PHX (Albert Gardner) 7. 07:46 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Charles Rowbotham) 8. 07:53 AM - Breaking Dimple Dies (Jamie Painter) 9. 07:53 AM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (SCOTT SPENCER) 10. 08:14 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (David Fenstermacher) 11. 08:44 AM - Panel Planning Woes (mkejrj@comcast.net) 12. 08:44 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Evan and Megan Johnson) 13. 09:00 AM - Re: Panel Planning Woes (Craig) 14. 09:03 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Doug Rozendaal) 15. 09:31 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Stein Bruch) 16. 09:47 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Scott Bilinski) 17. 10:40 AM - Re: steering link follow up report (HCRV6@aol.com) 18. 10:40 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Jim Jewell) 19. 10:42 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (HCRV6@aol.com) 20. 10:43 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Jim Jewell) 21. 10:51 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Richard Tasker) 22. 11:25 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (John D. Heath) 23. 12:17 PM - Re: RV's/Warbirds () 24. 01:06 PM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (JOHN STARN) 25. 01:53 PM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (ogoodwin@comcast.net) 26. 01:53 PM - Re: SEA----PHX (Richard V. Reynolds) 27. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: RV's/Warbirds () 28. 05:03 PM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Larry Bowen) 29. 05:56 PM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Chris W) 30. 05:56 PM - tank skin fit on wing (Gar Pessel) 31. 06:19 PM - Re: Right Angle Drill (David Fenstermacher) 32. 06:21 PM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 33. 06:58 PM - Thanks for Advice on SEA - PHX Routing (John Wiegenstein) 34. 07:38 PM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Charlie England) 35. 08:32 PM - Re: Panel Planning Woes (mkejrj@comcast.net) 36. 10:06 PM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (James E. Clark) 37. 10:33 PM - Re: tank skin fit on wing (Albert Gardner) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:25:45 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I don't have answer to your question. But, I have been introduced to the idea that using a few winds of heavy SS safety tie wire should work or could supplement the clips in case they fail. I am also looking into substituting the clips with a shackle that can be more easily replaced. Type 316 cast anchor shackles or something similar could work. See http://www.mcmaster.com/ and search for shackle Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky) ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips > --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com > > Does anyone know of a source for stainless steel tail wheel spring connector > clips? The ones that came with my tail wheel from Van's have rusted badly in > only a few months. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, flying! > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:54 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" I've got both a low profile version from Avery (the kind with the threaded drill bits) and a chuck version. I've used both. I've needed the small one for really tight spaces before, but I've needed the chuck version for different size drills and unibits. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon Kitlog Builder's Software www.kitlog.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MLWynn@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com Hi all, I need a right angle drill to drill out some tight spots. Any suggestions on what I need? Aircraft Spruce advertises four sizes. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/angledrill.php I would think the keychuck model would be the easiest to use, long term. Thoughts? Michael Wynn '93 FJZ 80 TLCA # 13095 Pacific Mountain Cruisers San Ramon, CA ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:01:39 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters John Huft wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: John Huft > >A real purist would say a warbird is a combat aircraft on active duty. > >Over the holidays I was visiting with a friend's father, who flew the >B-24 in WWII. He feels that the CAF are a bunch of wannabees, who are >being disrespectful to those who fought and died in those aircraft, in >defense of our freedom. > >To each his own I guess. > >John > I think that's sad. Since the Gov's isn't training new pilots and crews for the retired 'Iron", those 'wannabees' are carrying on a tradition ..... of honoring those that made them their 'office' instead of being disrespectful. I, myself, find the Warbird group a bunch of egotistical As......, and as much as I love looking at the old military airplanes .... I just don't associate with the group. My Dad, who has passed away, was a B-24 pilot .... but I couldn't get him to talk about it .... and now his memories are lost to us that came after the 'big one'. I really would have liked to know what his experiences were. He was lucky .... flew his 24 missions without losing crew or airplane, and I know he flew on raids to Ploesti and the sub pens. But this isn't really RV - related. I like Doug's definition!!! Linn ..... who's little Grumman AA-1B brings out the fighter pilot in all of us. I'm sure that the RV-6 does the same. do not archive > > >Doug Rozendaal wrote: > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" >> >>All, >> >>Here is an interesting topic. And one for which I have an opinion. >>(imagine that) >> >>What is a warbird anyway? Some would say that a warbird is surplus military >>airplane. Are the P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota >>Warbirds? The pureist say no, but I say it depends, because I have a >>different definition. I believe a Warbird is, "A tool we use to tell a >>story." >> >>If anyone want to paint their RV up in Warbird colors of the Nigerian Air >>Force and run around telling the story of how this country is being >>inventive to teach their people to fly, then clearly that airplane is a >>Warbird. >> >>If someone else wanted to paint an RV up in the Colors of the Tuskegee >>Airmen and fly around the country telling young people that once upon a time >>a whole group of people had no chance to fly and fight for their country, >>but because of hard work, dicipline, and constancy of purpose, these men >>changed the world, then that airplane would be a Warbird. >> >>Let me give an example, Tora Tora Tora flies a bunch of butchered up, highly >>modified T-6's and BT-13 cross breeds painted up Like Zeros, Kates and Vals. >>Does anyone not believe they are Warbirds? They absolutely and very >>effectively tell a story. They clearly tell a story. >> >>Conversely there are surplus military airplanes flying around and their >>primary purpose is to tell people about the weatlh of the owner. Hardly a >>warbird in my book. >> >>That is my $.02 worth. >> >>Tailwinds, >>Doug Rozendaal >>lowly Warbird puke..... >> >>Do not archive >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:59 AM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Mike, Get the 1/4" - 28 tpi model. This will fit in much tighter areas than anything with a chuck on it. It uses special, short drill bits which are threaded (hence the 1/4 - 28). These are also sold by ACS. You can buy these bits cheaply at airshows like Sun N' Fun and Air Venture. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com > >Hi all, > >I need a right angle drill to drill out some tight spots. Any suggestions on >what I need? Aircraft Spruce advertises four sizes. > >http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/angledrill.php > >I would think the keychuck model would be the easiest to use, long term. >Thoughts? > >Michael Wynn >'93 FJZ 80 >TLCA # 13095 >Pacific Mountain Cruisers >San Ramon, CA > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:45 AM PST US From: "Turbo Tom" Subject: Re: RV-List: steering link follow up report --> RV-List message posted by: "Turbo Tom" > I will post any further > information. >>TT And, here it is. Turbo Tom Terry Jantzi, who is inventor and manufacture of the Jantzi Steering Link has decided that due to other projects and commitments that he is unable to give the time needed to market and sell the Steering Link. I think time has shown that the Jantzi Steering Link is great product. I am a friend of Terry's and a fellow builder. I am currently just completing an F1 Rocket parts kit. Terry and I have come to an agreement for myself to purchased the rights to the Jantzi Steering Link. The transaction will take a little time to put together but I hope to begin filling orders by mid February. A web site should be coming online shortly. I will notify you of the details as they come together. I can be contacted at: Wayne Hadath 23 Jadestone Crt Kitchener, Ontario Canada, N2A 3X7 Phone 519-648-3375 Fax 519-648-3375 Cell 519-589-8352 I noticed your email on the RV List. Feel free to share this information with whom ever you wish. Thanks Wayne ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:45 AM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: Re: RV-List: SEA----PHX --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" Subject: RV-List: SEA----PHX > --> RV-List message posted by: Ronald Vandervort > > I plan two stops and use Burns Ore. or > Mesquite Utah or The Dalles etc. depending on how the weather affected Hold on now-Mesquite is just West of the Arizona line in Nevada. We Arizonans reserve the right to either claim that Mesquite is almost in Az or be glad it isn't-depending on your individual preference. They do have 24 hr. self serve (a little pricey) so that's a real plus. BTW, St. Johns, AZ probably has the lowest prices for 100 LL but is out of the way for this route. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:20 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" We have both but used the chuck very little (just to big). The low profile (from Avery) is our angle drill of choice (can get short - reg - Long bits). Also agree that S-N-F would an excellent place to pickup extra bits. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Paul Besing" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: Right Angle Drill >Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2005 06:45:32 -0700 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >I've got both a low profile version from Avery (the kind with the threaded >drill bits) and a chuck version. I've used both. I've needed the small >one >for really tight spaces before, but I've needed the chuck version for >different size drills and unibits. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >RV-10 Soon >Kitlog Builder's Software >www.kitlog.com > >-----Original Message----- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:06 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies From: "Jamie Painter" --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" Fellow Listers: I'm now well into my wings on my -7A and last night was dimpling the bottom skins in my c-frame tool. About half-way through the first skin, the #40 dimple die broke!!! I wouldn't really be that concerned about it but this is the third one that I've had break (one was a tank die that I had borrowed from a friend). I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. When I'm dimpling, before striking the c-frame I always gently press down to bring the male/female dies into alignment, then I release and press down again to ensure that they are still aligned. I'm dimpling with usually two blows with the rubber mallot and I'm making the dimple at the same 'crispness' as my pneumatic squeezer. Are any other builders having the same problem? Oh Yeah, I got my dies from Cleaveland. Thanks, Jamie -- Jamie D. Painter RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:53:39 AM PST US From: SCOTT SPENCER Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: SCOTT SPENCER The conductivity differences between copper and brass will be utterly insignificant for a conductor the length of a bus bar... unless of course you have a 1000' bus bar... my brass one works great FWIW. Bought the stock at a local hobby shop. Scott N4ZW ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:09 AM PST US From: "David Fenstermacher" Subject: RE: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" I have the "kit" sold by ACS. It was 175 bucks, or so. (Gift from Wife). Anyway, I like it. It has everything. You might also want to pick-up a "pancake drill". It gets in really tight spots, but is tough to hold on to. Dave > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 1/24/2005 2:41:15 AM > Subject: RV-List: Right Angle Drill > > --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com > > Hi all, > > I need a right angle drill to drill out some tight spots. Any suggestions on > what I need? Aircraft Spruce advertises four sizes. > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/angledrill.php > > I would think the keychuck model would be the easiest to use, long term. > Thoughts? > > Michael Wynn > '93 FJZ 80 > TLCA # 13095 > Pacific Mountain Cruisers > San Ramon, CA > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:28 AM PST US From: mkejrj@comcast.net Subject: RV-List: Panel Planning Woes 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: mkejrj@comcast.net I used a popular panel planning software to plan the panel on my RV8. The software allowed me to mix and match various Avionics and Instrumentation combinations. I used the software to determine my optimum equipment list and ordered my Avionics and Instrumentation accordingly. I was a happy camper and everything promised to fit nicely per the final software printout. When I attempted to lay the actual purchased equipment out on my panel I noted a serious problem with the actual clearances both on the panel face and the opposite side.The software does not give you a true picture.My stuff would not fit ! I contracted out the actual panel cutting and equipment installation to a Pro who had done several installations on RV's and RV8's and he confirmed the "gotcha" with using the software. There were several builders who had identical problems. My bottom line is that I have two brand new instruments which could not be installed and which I would like to offer for sale @ a 30% discount : R C Allen Turn Coordinator,Model RCA 83A-11-14,14 Volts, Bezel lighted,TSO 3Cb A/C/Spruce Lists @ $ 753.00 // Sale @ $ 527.00 United Vert. Speed Indicator,Model 7000-C31, 0 to 2000 FPM A/C/Spruce Lists @ $ 332.00 // Sale @ $ 232.00 Interested parties please contact me direct. Dick Jordan Malvern, Pa...610 933 4183 RV 8A (Finishing) I used a popular panel planning software to plan the panel on my RV8. The software allowed me to mix and match various Avionics and Instrumentation combinations. I used the software to determinemy optimum equipment list and ordered my Avionics and Instrumentation accordingly. I was a happy camper and everything promised to fit nicelyper the final software printout. When I attempted to lay the actual purchased equipment out on my panel I noted a serious problem with the actual clearances both on the panel face and the opposite side.The software does not give you a true picture.My stuff would not fit ! I contracted out the actual panel cutting and equipment installation to aPro who had done several installations on RV's and RV8's and he confirmed the "gotcha" with using the software. There were several builders who had identical problems. My bottom line is that I have two brand new instruments which could not be installed and which I would like to offer for sale @ a 30% discount : R C Allen Turn Coordinator,Model RCA 83A-11-14,14 Volts, Bezel lighted,TSO 3Cb A/C/Spruce Lists @ $ 753.00 // Sale @ $ 527.00 United Vert. Speed Indicator,Model 7000-C31, 0 to 2000 FPM A/C/Spruce Lists @ $ 332.00 // Sale @ $ 232.00 Interested parties please contact me direct. Dick Jordan Malvern, Pa...610 933 4183 RV 8A (Finishing) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:29 AM PST US From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" "P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota"!!!! That got my attention.....who is doiing this? I wanna see.... Thanks... Evan Johnson www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell do not archive From: "Doug Rozendaal" : Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > > All, > > Here is an interesting topic. And one for which I have an opinion. > (imagine that) > > What is a warbird anyway? Some would say that a warbird is surplus military > airplane. Are the P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota > Warbirds? The pureist say no, but I say it depends, because I have a > different definition. I believe a Warbird is, "A tool we use to tell a > story." > > If anyone want to paint their RV up in Warbird colors of the Nigerian Air > Force and run around telling the story of how this country is being > inventive to teach their people to fly, then clearly that airplane is a > Warbird. > > If someone else wanted to paint an RV up in the Colors of the Tuskegee > Airmen and fly around the country telling young people that once upon a time > a whole group of people had no chance to fly and fight for their country, > but because of hard work, dicipline, and constancy of purpose, these men > changed the world, then that airplane would be a Warbird. > > Let me give an example, Tora Tora Tora flies a bunch of butchered up, highly > modified T-6's and BT-13 cross breeds painted up Like Zeros, Kates and Vals. > Does anyone not believe they are Warbirds? They absolutely and very > effectively tell a story. They clearly tell a story. > > Conversely there are surplus military airplanes flying around and their > primary purpose is to tell people about the weatlh of the owner. Hardly a > warbird in my book. > > That is my $.02 worth. > > Tailwinds, > Doug Rozendaal > lowly Warbird puke..... > > Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:08 AM PST US From: Craig Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Planning Woes --> RV-List message posted by: Craig Which popular panel planning software let you astray?? I'd hate to run into the same problem. Craig Gallenbach RV8A .... just startin' but dreaming of panels ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:02 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Unfortunately some of the negative sentiments expressed here are deserved. Some of those are the 'wannabes' that I alluded to in my original post who use an airplane to inflate their own ego. Fortunately those people usually grow weary of the hot asphalt, flat beer, and rare bratwurst that is the airshow business, and fade away. Sadly not before leaving a scar on all of us. For the most part, the people who maintain and fly these old airplanes do it for one purpose, "to keep people free." WWII is now typically covered in one class period in High School history. Most of our young people have no concept of a time when our way of life was threatened, and the history we forget, we must relearn, at a terrible price. Freedom is not free. I will never forget September 2001 stranded in Kansas City,standing on the ramp in front of my airplane, unable to get in it and fly home. That was when 9-11 became real for me. There are those, both at home and abroad, who would like to take our freedom from us and we must never forget that. My hat is off to all who served, on the land, sea and in the air, that have kept us free so that we can vote, protest, pray, and fly our spamcans, homebuilts, and Warbirds. The old soldier who doesn't like the CAF is free to that opinion. My apologies on behalf of my peers in the warbird world who are arrogant and egotistical. I am sure some think I am as well. I try hard to talk to everyone who wants to, especially the kids. But sometimes, when I am busy, or preoccupied with other things, I am sure I come off wrong. (my wife tells me I do that) I will try to do better, and I will try to encourage my peers to do better as well. If my warbird flying causes one old soldier to share his stories of WWII with his grand kid, then my summer was a success. Nuff said. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:09 AM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" They're not the only ones. You can buy just about everything for the -51's built from scratch now, like a complete set of wings, flight controls, fuselages, etc... That being said, you better have a DEEP wallet to do it! Cheers, Stein Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Evan and Megan Johnson Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" "P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota"!!!! That got my attention.....who is doiing this? I wanna see.... Thanks... Evan Johnson www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:47:45 AM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski I believe that group was at Reno. I asked what a complete plane would cost in parts, I dont remember the exact amount but well over 1 mil, I think closer to 1.5. At 11:30 AM 1/24/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > >They're not the only ones. You can buy just about everything for the -51's >built from scratch now, like a complete set of wings, flight controls, >fuselages, etc... > >That being said, you better have a DEEP wallet to do it! > >Cheers, >Stein > >Do Not Archive > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Evan and Megan >Johnson >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > > > > "P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota"!!!! That got my >attention.....who is doiing this? I wanna see.... > >Thanks... >Evan Johnson >www.evansaviationproducts.com >(530)247-0375 >(530)351-1776 cell > >do not archive > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:04 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: steering link follow up report --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Wayne: When you have links ready to offer let us know via the RV List. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying! ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:40:04 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Go to this site http://www.terrytools.com/ Terry Tools inc. make: Professional quality tools. They have a range of angle tools to offer. The smallest format chuckable right angle drill that I've seen. They supply replacement parts for the tools they make. Their prices are reasonable. I believe both Avery and Cleaveland Tools List them. A really tough litttle tool. I made a removable position adjustable handle for mine that cut down on tool and bit breakage and increased drilling accuracy. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: Right Angle Drill > --> RV-List message posted by: MLWynn@aol.com > > Hi all, > > I need a right angle drill to drill out some tight spots. Any suggestions > on > what I need? Aircraft Spruce advertises four sizes. > > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/angledrill.php > > I would think the keychuck model would be the easiest to use, long term. > Thoughts? > > Michael Wynn > '93 FJZ 80 > TLCA # 13095 > Pacific Mountain Cruisers > San Ramon, CA > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:00 AM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Hi Michael: I wound up owning both a key chuck style that accepts up to 3/8 in bits (useful for the larger Unibits) and a snake drill with right angle head that accepts 1/4-28 threaded shank bits. If doing it again I would pass on the snake drill and get one of the angle drill attachments. I also have a neat angle drill chuck (from Cleveland Aircraft Tool) that lets me use any standard drill bit up to 1/4 inch shank in the threaded adapters. Just what works for me. Do not archive Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:34 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Jamie, Are you pre-drilling the holes to a Number 41 or number 40 Drill size? Jim in kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jamie Painter" Subject: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > > Fellow Listers: > > I'm now well into my wings on my -7A and last night was dimpling the > bottom > skins in my c-frame tool. About half-way through the first skin, the #40 > dimple die broke!!! I wouldn't really be that concerned about it but this > is > the third one that I've had break (one was a tank die that I had borrowed > from > a friend). I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. > > When I'm dimpling, before striking the c-frame I always gently press down > to > bring the male/female dies into alignment, then I release and press down > again > to ensure that they are still aligned. > > I'm dimpling with usually two blows with the rubber mallot and I'm making > the > dimple at the same 'crispness' as my pneumatic squeezer. > > Are any other builders having the same problem? > > Oh Yeah, I got my dies from Cleaveland. > > Thanks, > Jamie > > -- > Jamie D. Painter > RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved) > http://rv.jpainter.org > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:51:26 AM PST US From: Richard Tasker Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker Are holding the die down when you hit it? How high is the die when the spring lifts it out of the way? If you are letting the spring lift the die and then hit it, there is a significant probability that the die will not be quite lined up with each other (due to play in the bronze bearing in the c-frame) and will wear or break. When I use the c-frame to dimple my parts, I hold the die down against the part/other die when I hit it. Dick Tasker Jamie Painter wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > >Fellow Listers: > >I'm now well into my wings on my -7A and last night was dimpling the bottom >skins in my c-frame tool. About half-way through the first skin, the #40 >dimple die broke!!! I wouldn't really be that concerned about it but this is >the third one that I've had break (one was a tank die that I had borrowed from >a friend). I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. > >When I'm dimpling, before striking the c-frame I always gently press down to >bring the male/female dies into alignment, then I release and press down again >to ensure that they are still aligned. > >I'm dimpling with usually two blows with the rubber mallot and I'm making the >dimple at the same 'crispness' as my pneumatic squeezer. > >Are any other builders having the same problem? > >Oh Yeah, I got my dies from Cleaveland. > >Thanks, >Jamie > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:25:46 AM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" The one's I flew do. John D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > > Hey, do helicopters count as warbirds? > > Paul Besing > AH-64D Apache Longbow Driver > (not quite a war bird, but very effective!) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > > >> >>Brian, >> >>While all this is in fun lets go back one step. >> >>Being a FIGHTER PILOT is not a profession but way of life or maybe a >>mental >>attitude. >> >>If you fly your plane safety, fly with-in your limits (you can fly to the >>edge of your limits but not over), learn all there is to learn about >>flying >>your plane, etc. etc. - you maybe a Fighter Pilot. Therefore, your plane >>is >>a fighter. >> >>I can't believe I am saying this but even Doug maybe be a Fighter Pilot. >>:-) I still hate him because he gets to fly P-51s, etc. >> >>Brian, I will forgive you for building a RV-10 if you promise to go back >>to >>a single or two seat aircraft once the kids grow up. OK, you may have >>grandkids by then so the forgiveness may be extended. >> >>Tom "GummiBear" Gummo >>Wild Weasel #1573 >>Apple Valley, CA >>Harmon Rocket-II > > > I'll always have the "guns guns guns!!! Turn until the skins wrinkle and > the > wso pukes" approach to flying....within my own limits...abilities > technical > and physical. As much as I also hate Doug, my hat's off to ya, man. You > done good, earned the right to fly the mil spec iron and do so safely. A > long while back I escorted you out of Double Eagle...in that long string > of > B-25's. Man, that was awesome! My -8 was breathing hard to keep up but > your > starboard side was well protected. > > I fully intend to complete the fleet in the Denk Airborne Armada with an > RV3 > when the -10 is alive and serving the family truckster role. Wally world > Wally world!! OK ok, who has to pee NOW??? Who's the moosiest moose > there > is....Marty Moose... > > Egads...movie flashback. > > Keep the flying warrior spirit alive. It's in us all, whether in the form > of a Luscombe 8 or RV-X, Rocket, hot air balloon.....NOT!!! Heh. Man, > talk > about a target rich environment...Albuquerque International Balloon > Fiesta....Grrrrrrr.....heater tone....FIRE! Boom! Scratch one special > shape. Hey, that flying Jim Beam bottle looks tasty... > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:17:05 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: Subject: RV's/Warbirds >Bryan Jones wrote: >Some have made the point that RV's are/were used in the Nigerian Air Force. Wouldn't that >make RV's (-6/7A's) warbirds??? Certainly as much as any Yak 52TW, I'd imagine. My RV is not a Warbird. It will never be a Warbird, and I never want it to be a Warbird. It is an amateur-built experimental kit-aircraft I made and proud of it. I guess if you what to paint your RV like a Blue Angel, P-51, Nigerian Air Beatle or purple with pink dots, go for it. It is still a Homebuilt plane, which is something to be proud of (except the purple one with dots :-) No offense to warbird pilot-owners but, I think many are into going to air shows and posing next to their plane in some jump-suit get-up . I am into actually flying my RV in jeans and tennis shoes. I get to fly in a uniform at work. Who cares about War-birds? Dont get me wrong, it is an honor to live in the USA where we have freedom to build and fly experimental "Birds." That freedom is thanks to the Men and Women who served in the past and who serve today and in the future. Military planes are a tribute to those who built them and served during that period in history. The owners of warbids are not the heroes, but they do have money to maintain them for future generations. That is all. Unfortunately, many of these owner-pilots destroy them. Money and pilot skill is not mutually related. >John Huft wrote: >Over the holidays I was visiting with a friend's father, who flew the B-24 in WWII. He feels that >the CAF are a bunch of wannabees, who are being disrespectful to those who fought and >died in those aircraft, in defense of our freedom. I don't personally know many warbird owner-pilots, but their pride in owning these rare planes and what it represents to all citizens is understandable. Unfortunately the Warbird Associations in general (not the planes) have earned an elitist reputation. From my personal experience at Air shows it seems somewhat deserved. I love seeing the planes in the "Warbird" area, but dont enjoy seeing overly enthusiastic volunteers in antique military costumes, parade around shouting orders at civilians. They dont want our RVs there, and I dont want to be there either. Nice to visit but wouldn't want to park there. Again who cares? Whatever floats your boat (your plane, your ego or whatever). "Birds of a feather........" Whoa, too deep. I guess I'll just have to pretend to be a fighter pilot and strap my chute and RV on, go do some dogfighting and formation flying, just like a fighter pilot. I have got to get me one of those cool warbird flight suits, helmets, and scarf. (just kidding, sticking with the T-shirt and jeans.) Bogey at your 6!, To close for missiles going to guns! Paint your plane anyway you like but park it with the RVs. No warbirds allowed. Cheers G --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:46 PM PST US From: "JOHN STARN" "rocket-list" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" I can only speak for myself. Many years ago I joined others in forming a CAF Sq. at Rialto Airport. Most of us were not warbird owners but we all had a love of flying, WWII history & aircraft. Thanks to guys like Chuck Wentworth I was able to get up close & personal with AT-6's, PT-19, TBM, F4F and lots of "ordinary" guys. The skills & knowledge learned working on these old birds paid off when I moved in next door to Gummi and helped in building HRII N561FS. I now run our EAA chapters Young Eagles program and introduce kids to wonderful world of flying and with our rivet classes to building. But it all goes back to a few guys in CAF that let me get my hands dirty working on their airplanes. Don't forget there are guys like me out there that would join or help out if only asked. CAF keeps the dream alive just like the EAA Chapters just on a larger scale. "Wannabie" yep that was and is me alright and N561FS has flown lots of other "wanabie's" too and wouldn't you know it several of them are now either builders and/or pilots. Next you see a kid looking thru the fence at your airport wishing...., no praying, for ride, look closer you may find his parents may looking too and they've had the dream a lot longer. EAA & the CAF are full of "wanabies" and God Bless them, for without them the "real" pilots of WWII would not be able to "show & tell" at airshows with their grandkids about the good old days. "Those who can DO, those who can't or won't, gripe about those who DO". To me it's still the "Confederate Air Force". Do Not Archive KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > The one's I flew do. > > John D. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Besing" > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" >> >> Hey, do helicopters count as warbirds? >> >> Paul Besing >> AH-64D Apache Longbow Driver >> (not quite a war bird, but very effective!) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk >> To: rv-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds >> >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" >> >> >>> >>>Brian, >>> >>>While all this is in fun lets go back one step. >>> >>>Being a FIGHTER PILOT is not a profession but way of life or maybe a >>>mental >>>attitude. >>> >>>If you fly your plane safety, fly with-in your limits (you can fly to the >>>edge of your limits but not over), learn all there is to learn about >>>flying >>>your plane, etc. etc. - you maybe a Fighter Pilot. Therefore, your plane >>>is >>>a fighter. >>> >>>I can't believe I am saying this but even Doug maybe be a Fighter Pilot. >>>:-) I still hate him because he gets to fly P-51s, etc. >>> >>>Brian, I will forgive you for building a RV-10 if you promise to go back >>>to >>>a single or two seat aircraft once the kids grow up. OK, you may have >>>grandkids by then so the forgiveness may be extended. >>> >>>Tom "GummiBear" Gummo >>>Wild Weasel #1573 >>>Apple Valley, CA >>>Harmon Rocket-II >> >> >> I'll always have the "guns guns guns!!! Turn until the skins wrinkle and >> the >> wso pukes" approach to flying....within my own limits...abilities >> technical >> and physical. As much as I also hate Doug, my hat's off to ya, man. You >> done good, earned the right to fly the mil spec iron and do so safely. A >> long while back I escorted you out of Double Eagle...in that long string >> of >> B-25's. Man, that was awesome! My -8 was breathing hard to keep up but >> your >> starboard side was well protected. >> >> I fully intend to complete the fleet in the Denk Airborne Armada with an >> RV3 >> when the -10 is alive and serving the family truckster role. Wally world >> Wally world!! OK ok, who has to pee NOW??? Who's the moosiest moose >> there >> is....Marty Moose... >> >> Egads...movie flashback. >> >> Keep the flying warrior spirit alive. It's in us all, whether in the >> form >> of a Luscombe 8 or RV-X, Rocket, hot air balloon.....NOT!!! Heh. Man, >> talk >> about a target rich environment...Albuquerque International Balloon >> Fiesta....Grrrrrrr.....heater tone....FIRE! Boom! Scratch one special >> shape. Hey, that flying Jim Beam bottle looks tasty... >> >> Brian Denk >> RV8 N94BD >> RV10 '51 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:24 PM PST US From: ogoodwin@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: ogoodwin@comcast.net John, I was trying to figure out how to say it but never could have done as well as you. I'm mostly a lurker, but this thread crosses from RV's into a wider area. Those who disparage "wannabes" are looking no farther than the end of their noses, and in most cases I suspect that's also the limit of their interest. We were ALL "wannabes" of some description: wannabe pilot, wannabe A&P, wannabe airline pilot, wannabe fighter pilot, (wannabe independently wealthy...but I digress)...the list is endless. It's inappropriate to make sweeping generalizations. I've heard those who fly large transports are mechanical and have no real skills; fighter pilots are egotistical and can't really operate in the real world; cargo pilots can't fly well enough to get a real job with an airline; pilots are prima donnas; and much more BS. While there are examples of each of these groups that seem to bear out those prejudices, there are many more individuals that don't. Strapping on a certain machine or wearing a flight suit and helmet or uniform doesn't mean a thing. Neither does wearing jeans. Olen Goodwin -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" > > I can only speak for myself. Many years ago I joined others in forming a CAF > Sq. at Rialto Airport. Most of us were not warbird owners but we all had a > love of flying, WWII history & aircraft. Thanks to guys like Chuck Wentworth > I was able to get up close & personal with AT-6's, PT-19, TBM, F4F and lots > of "ordinary" guys. The skills & knowledge learned working on these old > birds paid off when I moved in next door to Gummi and helped in building > HRII N561FS. I now run our EAA chapters Young Eagles program and introduce > kids to wonderful world of flying and with our rivet classes to building. > But it all goes back to a few guys in CAF that let me get my hands dirty > working on their airplanes. Don't forget there are guys like me out there > that would join or help out if only asked. CAF keeps the dream alive just > like the EAA Chapters just on a larger scale. "Wannabie" yep that was and is > me alright and N561FS has flown lots of other "wanabie's" too and wouldn't > you know it several of them are now either builders and/or pilots. Next you > see a kid looking thru the fence at your airport wishing...., no praying, > for ride, look closer you may find his parents may looking too and they've > had the dream a lot longer. EAA & the CAF are full of "wanabies" and God > Bless them, for without them the "real" pilots of WWII would not be able to > "show & tell" at airshows with their grandkids about the good old days. > "Those who can DO, those who can't or won't, gripe about those who DO". To > me it's still the "Confederate Air Force". > Do Not Archive KABONG > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John D. Heath" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > > The one's I flew do. > > > > John D. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul Besing" > > To: > > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > > > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" > >> > >> Hey, do helicopters count as warbirds? > >> > >> Paul Besing > >> AH-64D Apache Longbow Driver > >> (not quite a war bird, but very effective!) > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk > >> To: rv-list@matronics.com > >> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > >> > >> > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" > >> > >> > >>> > >>>Brian, > >>> > >>>While all this is in fun lets go back one step. > >>> > >>>Being a FIGHTER PILOT is not a profession but way of life or maybe a > >>>mental > >>>attitude. > >>> > >>>If you fly your plane safety, fly with-in your limits (you can fly to the > >>>edge of your limits but not over), learn all there is to learn about > >>>flying > >>>your plane, etc. etc. - you maybe a Fighter Pilot. Therefore, your plane > >>>is > >>>a fighter. > >>> > >>>I can't believe I am saying this but even Doug maybe be a Fighter Pilot. > >>>:-) I still hate him because he gets to fly P-51s, etc. > >>> > >>>Brian, I will forgive you for building a RV-10 if you promise to go back > >>>to > >>>a single or two seat aircraft once the kids grow up. OK, you may have > >>>grandkids by then so the forgiveness may be extended. > >>> > >>>Tom "GummiBear" Gummo > >>>Wild Weasel #1573 > >>>Apple Valley, CA > >>>Harmon Rocket-II > >> > >> > >> I'll always have the "guns guns guns!!! Turn until the skins wrinkle and > >> the > >> wso pukes" approach to flying....within my own limits...abilities > >> technical > >> and physical. As much as I also hate Doug, my hat's off to ya, man. You > >> done good, earned the right to fly the mil spec iron and do so safely. A > >> long while back I escorted you out of Double Eagle...in that long string > >> of > >> B-25's. Man, that was awesome! My -8 was breathing hard to keep up but > >> your > >> starboard side was well protected. > >> > >> I fully intend to complete the fleet in the Denk Airborne Armada with an > >> RV3 > >> when the -10 is alive and serving the family truckster role. Wally world > >> Wally world!! OK ok, who has to pee NOW??? Who's the moosiest moose > >> there > >> is....Marty Moose... > >> > >> Egads...movie flashback. > >> > >> Keep the flying warrior spirit alive. It's in us all, whether in the > >> form > >> of a Luscombe 8 or RV-X, Rocket, hot air balloon.....NOT!!! Heh. Man, > >> talk > >> about a target rich environment...Albuquerque International Balloon > >> Fiesta....Grrrrrrr.....heater tone....FIRE! Boom! Scratch one special > >> shape. Hey, that flying Jim Beam bottle looks tasty... > >> > >> Brian Denk > >> RV8 N94BD > >> RV10 '51 > > > > > > John, I was trying to figure out how to say it but never could have done as well as you. I'm mostly a lurker, but this thread crosses from RV's into a wider area. Those who disparage "wannabes" are looking no farther than the end of their noses, and in most cases I suspect that's also the limit of their interest. We were ALL "wannabes" of some description: wannabe pilot, wannabe AP, wannabe airline pilot, wannabe fighter pilot, (wannabe independently wealthy...but I digress)...the list is endless. It's inappropriate to make sweeping generalizations. I've heard those who fly large transports are mechanical and have no real skills; fighter pilots are egotistical and can't really operate in the real world; cargo pilots can't fly well enough to get a real job with an airline; pilots are prima donnas; and much more BS. While there are examples of each of these groups that seem to bear out those prejudices, there are many more individuals that don't. Strapping on a certain machine or wearing a flight suit and helmet or uniform doesn't mean a thing. Neither does wearing jeans. Olen Goodwin -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" I can only speak for myself. Many years ago I joined others in forming a CAF Sq. at Rialto Airport. Most of us were not warbird owners but we all had a love of flying, WWII history aircraft. Thanks to guys like Chuck Wentworth I was able to get up close personal with AT-6's, PT-19, TBM, F4F and lots of "ordinary" guys. The skills knowledge learned working on these old birds paid off when I moved in next door to Gummi and helped in building HRII N561FS. I now run our EAA chapters Young Eagles program and introduce kids to wonderful world of flying and with our rivet classes to building. But it all goes back to a few guys in CAF that let me get my hands dirty working on their airplanes. Don't forget there are guys like me out there that would join or help out if only asked. CAF keeps the dream alive just like the EAA Chapters just on a larger scale. "Wannabie" yep that was and is me alright and N561FS has flown lots of other "wanabie's" too and wouldn't you know it several of them are now either builders and/or pilots. Next you see a kid looking thru the fence at your airport wishing...., no praying, for ride, look closer you may find his parents may looking too and they've had the dream a lot longer. EAA the CAF are full of "wanabies" and God Bless them, for without them the "real" pilots of WWII would not be able to "show tell" at airshows with their grandkids about the good old days. "Those who can DO, those who can't or won't, gripe about those who DO". To me it's still the "Confederate Air Force". Do Not Archive KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: "John D. Heath" To: Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds -- RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" The one's I flew do. John D. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Besing" To: Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds -- RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Hey, do helicopters count as warbirds? Paul Besing AH-64D Apache Longbow Driver (not quite a war bird, but very effective!) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk To: rv-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds -- RV-List message posted by: "Brian Denk" Brian, While all this is in fun lets go back one step. Being a FIGHTER PILOT is not a profession but way of life or maybe a mental attitude. If you fly your plane safety, fly with-in your limits (you can fly to the edge of your limits but not over), learn all there is to learn about > ;flying your plane, etc. etc. - you maybe a Fighter Pilot. Therefore, your plane is a fighter. I can't believe I am saying this but even Doug maybe be a Fighter Pilot. :-) I still hate him because he gets to fly P-51s, etc. Brian, I will forgive you for building a RV-10 if you promise to go back to a single or two seat aircraft once the kids grow up. OK, you may have grandkids by then so the forgiveness may be extended. Tom "GummiBear" Gummo Wild Weasel #1573 Apple Valley, CA Harmon Rocket-II I'll always have the "guns guns guns!!! Turn until the skins wrinkle and the wso pukes" approach to flying....within my own limits...abilities technical and physical. As much as I also hate Doug, my hat's off to ya, man. You done good, earned the right to fly the mil spec iron and do so safely. A long while back I escorted you out of Double Eagle...in that long string of B-25's. Man, that was awesome! My -8 was breathing hard to keep up but your starboard side was well protected. I fully intend to complete the fleet in the Denk Airborne Armada with an RV3 when the -10 is alive and serving the family truckster role. Wally world Wally world!! OK ok, who has to pee NOW??? Who's the moosiest moose there is....Marty Moose... Egads...mov ie flashback. Keep the flying warrior spirit alive. It's in us all, whether in the form of a Luscombe 8 or RV-X, Rocket, hot air balloon.....NOT!!! Heh. Man, talk about a target rich environment...Albuquerque International Balloon Fiesta....Grrrrrrr.....heater tone....FIRE! Boom! Scratch one special shape. Hey, that flying Jim Beam bottle looks tasty... Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ========================================= < BR> ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:24 PM PST US From: "Richard V. Reynolds" Subject: Re: RV-List: SEA----PHX --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" > BTW, St. Johns, AZ probably has the lowest prices for 100 LL but is out of > the way for this route. I got "lured" into stopping at St. Johns on my way from Winslow to Roswell. Fuel was a little cheaper, staff was nice, but it was out of the way and the altitude is 6500 ft, the highest on my trip. Yerington, NV is a nice stopover from Portland. Watch out for all the Restricted Areas. Watch out for the water in the fuel. Several FBOs said it because I was flying so high. Never had it Virgnia! Richard Reynolds, Norfolk VA RV-6A N841RV Virginia is for flying lovers! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:02 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: Two fellows are producing parts and restoring warbirds, a fellow by the name of Odegaard and anothe by the name of Beck. Odegaard is from Kindred,ND and Beck is from around Whapeton, ND my father-in-law is a crop sprayer from Lisbon, ND and visits these guys often. Right now they are rebuilding the red tail P-51c. Kirk RV-8 Wings > > From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > Date: 2005/01/24 Mon AM 11:54:53 EST > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" > > > "P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota"!!!! That got my > attention.....who is doiing this? I wanna see.... > > Thanks... > Evan Johnson > www.evansaviationproducts.com > (530)247-0375 > (530)351-1776 cell > > do not archive > > > From: "Doug Rozendaal" > : > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > > > > All, > > > > Here is an interesting topic. And one for which I have an opinion. > > (imagine that) > > > > What is a warbird anyway? Some would say that a warbird is surplus > military > > airplane. Are the P-51A's being built from scratch in North Dakota > > Warbirds? The pureist say no, but I say it depends, because I have a > > different definition. I believe a Warbird is, "A tool we use to tell a > > story." > > > > If anyone want to paint their RV up in Warbird colors of the Nigerian Air > > Force and run around telling the story of how this country is being > > inventive to teach their people to fly, then clearly that airplane is a > > Warbird. > > > > If someone else wanted to paint an RV up in the Colors of the Tuskegee > > Airmen and fly around the country telling young people that once upon a > time > > a whole group of people had no chance to fly and fight for their country, > > but because of hard work, dicipline, and constancy of purpose, these men > > changed the world, then that airplane would be a Warbird. > > > > Let me give an example, Tora Tora Tora flies a bunch of butchered up, > highly > > modified T-6's and BT-13 cross breeds painted up Like Zeros, Kates and > Vals. > > Does anyone not believe they are Warbirds? They absolutely and very > > effectively tell a story. They clearly tell a story. > > > > Conversely there are surplus military airplanes flying around and their > > primary purpose is to tell people about the weatlh of the owner. Hardly a > > warbird in my book. > > > > That is my $.02 worth. > > > > Tailwinds, > > Doug Rozendaal > > lowly Warbird puke..... > > > > Do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 05:03:34 PM PST US From: "Larry Bowen" Subject: RE: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" I think I remember one fella that had a c-frame that was somehow out a alignment and had the same problems. Call Avery or whoever you got it from and they can probably help you. - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Tasker [mailto:retasker@optonline.net] > Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 1:50 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies > > --> RV-List message posted by: Richard Tasker > > Are holding the die down when you hit it? How high is the > die when the spring lifts it out of the way? > > If you are letting the spring lift the die and then hit it, > there is a significant probability that the die will not be > quite lined up with each other (due to play in the bronze > bearing in the c-frame) and will wear or break. > > When I use the c-frame to dimple my parts, I hold the die > down against the part/other die when I hit it. > > Dick Tasker > > Jamie Painter wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > > > > > >Fellow Listers: > > > >I'm now well into my wings on my -7A and last night was dimpling the > >bottom skins in my c-frame tool. About half-way through the first > >skin, the #40 dimple die broke!!! I wouldn't really be that > concerned > >about it but this is the third one that I've had break (one > was a tank > >die that I had borrowed from a friend). I can't understand > what I'm doing wrong. > > > >When I'm dimpling, before striking the c-frame I always gently press > >down to bring the male/female dies into alignment, then I > release and > >press down again to ensure that they are still aligned. > > > >I'm dimpling with usually two blows with the rubber mallot and I'm > >making the dimple at the same 'crispness' as my pneumatic squeezer. > > > >Are any other builders having the same problem? > > > >Oh Yeah, I got my dies from Cleaveland. > > > >Thanks, > >Jamie > > > > > > > > > ========= > Matronics Forums. > ========= > ========= > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:01 PM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> David Fenstermacher wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" > >I have the "kit" sold by ACS. It was 175 bucks, or so. >(Gift from Wife). >Anyway, I like it. It has everything. > >You might also want to pick-up a "pancake drill". It gets in really tight >spots, but is tough to hold on to. > > I can't see how a pancake drill would be hard to hold on to, can you tell why? -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 05:56:01 PM PST US From: "Gar Pessel" Subject: RV-List: tank skin fit on wing --> RV-List message posted by: "Gar Pessel" Building my first 9A wing. After fitting the leading edge and wing skins to the spar and ribs, I assembled the tank with clecos and put it on the spar. The fit is perfect everywhere except for a 1/32 gap between the tank skin trailing edge and the top skin. It would be on top, of course. Twist is less than 2/32, and the wing is as straight as I can measure with a 48 inch straight edge. Any ideas on what I did wrong? I can think of only two solutions: 1) bondo 2) go buy a piece of 032 and drill it out with the original skin as a guide with a slightly longer edge at the front. Phooey. Gar Pessel Stuck in the snow in Fairbanks AK. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:40 PM PST US From: "David Fenstermacher" Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" It's not really "hard". The thing just gets a bit wiggly since it pivots at the driving end. Trying to hold the drill and the pancake attachment all at once, in a tight spot. Maybe it's just me, but the difficulty tolerance stack-up gets to this eye-hand-coordinationally challenged builder. do not archive > [Original Message] > From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> > To: > Date: 1/24/2005 8:54:43 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill > > --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> > > David Fenstermacher wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" > > > >I have the "kit" sold by ACS. It was 175 bucks, or so. > >(Gift from Wife). > >Anyway, I like it. It has everything. > > > >You might also want to pick-up a "pancake drill". It gets in really tight > >spots, but is tough to hold on to. > > > > > I can't see how a pancake drill would be hard to hold on to, can you > tell why? > > > -- > Chris W > > Gift Giving Made Easy > Get the gifts you want & > give the gifts they want > http://thewishzone.com > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:17 PM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 01/24/2005 3:07:50 PM Central Standard Time, jhstarn@verizon.net writes: . Next you see a kid looking thru the fence at your airport wishing...., no praying, for ride, look closer you may find his parents may looking too and they've had the dream a lot longer. EAA & the CAF are full of "wanabies" and God Bless them, for without them the "real" pilots of WWII would not be able to "show & tell" at airshows with their grandkids about the good old days. "Those who can DO, those who can't or won't, gripe about those who DO". To me it's still the "Confederate Air Force". Do Not Archive KABONG How arrogant to presume we "know" why some people devote millions of their own $$$ to keep the ancient iron airworthy- I don't give a rats ass if it's arrogance, pride, historical honor or WHAT, it means a lot to me just to see these heroic machines still makin' neck hair stand on end every pass at an airshow- Hell, I can barely afford an RV- if Hoot Gibson et al can afford to devote their $$$ to showing off at OSH & elsewhere as long as the $$$ holds out, more power to 'em! Thanks, John! You said it all- where do I sign up? Mark & do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 06:58:09 PM PST US From: "John Wiegenstein" Subject: RV-List: Thanks for Advice on SEA - PHX Routing --> RV-List message posted by: "John Wiegenstein" Many thanks to everyone who replied, both on and off list, to my inquiry regarding flight planning for my hoped-for trip from Seattle - Phoenix in March. Now I just need good wx! If anyone wants to check with me regarding the info I received, please email off list. Thanks again, everyone - the RV community is really something :-) John Wiegenstein Hansville, WA RV-6 N727JW ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:39 PM PST US From: Charlie England Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England Jamie Painter wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Jamie Painter" > > >Fellow Listers: > >I'm now well into my wings on my -7A and last night was dimpling the bottom >skins in my c-frame tool. About half-way through the first skin, the #40 >dimple die broke!!! I wouldn't really be that concerned about it but this is >the third one that I've had break (one was a tank die that I had borrowed from >a friend). I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. > >When I'm dimpling, before striking the c-frame I always gently press down to >bring the male/female dies into alignment, then I release and press down again >to ensure that they are still aligned. > >I'm dimpling with usually two blows with the rubber mallot and I'm making the >dimple at the same 'crispness' as my pneumatic squeezer. > >Are any other builders having the same problem? > >Oh Yeah, I got my dies from Cleaveland. > >Thanks, >Jamie > > > I've broken one die & it was because the c-frame wasn't perfectly aligned & the sheet wasn't perfectly flat. What works for me now is to hold the die down firmly with one hand & strike one hard blow with the mallet. It's pretty impressive how hard you can hit without deforming anything but the dimple itself. Charlie ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:34 PM PST US From: mkejrj@comcast.net Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Planning Woes --> RV-List message posted by: mkejrj@comcast.net Craig, Panel Planner, Instrument Panel Design Software,Copyright 1999 by One mile Up, Inc. Good luck with your panel. Dick Jordan -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: Craig > > > Which popular panel planning software let you astray?? I'd hate to run into the > same problem. > > Craig Gallenbach > > RV8A .... just startin' but dreaming of panels > > > > > > Craig, Panel Planner, Instrument Panel Design Software,Copyright 1999 by One mile Up, Inc. Good luck with your panel. Dick Jordan -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Craig Which popular panel planning software let you astray?? I'd hate to run into the same problem. Craig Gallenbach RV8A .... just startin' but dreaming of panels ww.matronics.com/subscription ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 10:06:54 PM PST US From: "James E. Clark" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" Comments from a slightly different perspective (I am not a warbird owner) {SNIP} [JEC:] |> |> Who cares about War-birds? Dont get me wrong, it is an honor to live in |> the USA where we have freedom to build and fly experimental "Birds." |> That freedom is thanks to the Men and Women who served in the past and |> who serve today and in the future. Military planes are a tribute to |> those who built them and served during that period in history. The |> owners of warbids are not the heroes, but they do have money to maintain |> them for future generations. That is all. Unfortunately, many of these |> owner-pilots destroy them. Money and pilot skill is not mutually |> related. [JEC:] Of course **most** of the warbird owners are not the heroes, though some ARE. Those owners that have the money AND *spend* the money to keep this special history alive deserve (in my opinion) a "Thank You". I have had the pleasure to meet a few of these individuals who were "as nice as the days are long". On the other hand, I too have met a few whose arrogance and "elitist" attitude gave a bad name to the genre but that is not everyone. Hey I have even met a ***few*** RV owners who lower the likeability index of Experimental Aircraft Owners, but I just disregard them as individuals. And maybe that's your point below. . |> |> I don't personally know many warbird owner-pilots, but their pride in |> owning these rare planes and what it represents to all citizens is |> understandable. Unfortunately the Warbird Associations in general (not |> the planes) have earned an elitist reputation. From my personal |> experience at Air shows it seems somewhat deserved. I love seeing the |> planes in the "Warbird" area, but dont enjoy seeing overly enthusiastic |> volunteers in antique military costumes, parade around shouting orders |> at civilians. They dont want our RVs there, and I dont want to be there [JEC:] I think that in *some* of the cases, it is a matter of practicality. I have had some affiliation with an effort that brought together a few warbirds and a few RVs. We were concerned about where we parked and started planes so that we did not have a B17 or a P51 blow over an RV on startup ... or maybe even worse, taxi into one because it wasn't visible (yes there were plane escorts and tugs). |> either. Nice to visit but wouldn't want to park there. Again who cares? |> Whatever floats your boat (your plane, your ego or whatever). "Birds of |> a feather........" [JEC:] There are a few instances where "warbirds" and RVs co-mingle. The most recent one I am aware of is when TeamRV + Falcon Flight + OhioValley + Palmetto RV'ers (lead by Stu and Mike) flew a "B17" formation, carrying some original Tuskegee Airmen in some of the RVs, were escorted by the only known flying Red-Tailed P-51C Mustang ("Macon Belle"). The Mustang is owned (and was flown) by Kermit Weeks of Fantasy of Flight. See http://www.mstewart.net/teamrv and scroll down "Camden 04" and then on to "What Did I Do?" for more details. The point here is that warbird people and experimental people had a good gathering that day and I suspect do so quite often in other venues as well. James ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:31 PM PST US From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: Re: RV-List: tank skin fit on wing --> RV-List message posted by: "Albert Gardner" Make sure the plastic has been removed from the inside of the tank skin as that will cause some mis-alignment.I never checked the alignment on my tanks before they were built but when you assemble them after building some gap problems can be resolved by totating the tank aft and pulling the tank skin against the wing skin and then tightening down the upper screws before tightening the spar bolts and lower screws. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gar Pessel" Subject: RV-List: tank skin fit on wing > Building my first 9A wing. After fitting the leading edge and wing skins > to the spar and ribs, I assembled the tank with clecos and put it on the > spar. The fit is perfect everywhere except for a 1/32 gap between the > tank skin trailing edge and the top skin. It would be on top, of course. > Twist is less than 2/32, and the wing is as straight as I can measure with > a 48 inch straight edge. > Any ideas on what I did wrong? I can think of only two solutions: 1) > bondo 2) go buy a piece of 032 and drill it out with the original skin as > a guide with a slightly longer edge at the front. Phooey. > Gar Pessel Stuck in the snow in Fairbanks AK.