Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:30 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Kysh)
2. 04:48 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (LarryRobertHelming)
3. 05:20 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Dave Figgins)
4. 06:40 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (George Neal E Capt AU/CCP)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Chris W)
6. 07:55 AM - Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips (Crosley, Rich)
7. 08:53 AM - Need Builder Assist in Oregon (Tim Bryan)
8. 01:45 PM - Wife wants her name on the registration! (Matthew Brandes)
9. 01:54 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Cory Emberson)
10. 02:02 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (JT Helms)
11. 02:20 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Mike Robertson)
12. 02:20 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Scott Bilinski)
13. 02:23 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
14. 02:38 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (JT Helms)
15. 02:47 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (John Ammeter)
16. 02:55 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
17. 03:05 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
18. 03:15 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (cgalley)
19. 03:27 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
20. 03:33 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
21. 03:38 PM - Electric Gyro death? (bertrv6@highstream.net)
22. 03:46 PM - oil cooler baffle cut out size (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
23. 05:47 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Richard E. Tasker)
24. 06:52 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Charlie Kuss)
25. 09:07 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Dave Bristol)
26. 10:59 PM - Re: tank skin fit on wing (Warren Hurd)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: RV's/Warbirds |
--> RV-List message posted by: Kysh <vans-dragon@lapdragon.org>
> Want to see a grown man cry ? Mention to Tom the F-4's turned into tragets.
That makes me cry, and I'm just a 'sprat' by many standards.
It's an atrocity. :<
-Kysh
--
| 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying |
| CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr |
| 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang |
| Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ |
| KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham |
| Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ |
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Breaking Dimple Dies |
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Good advice by Charlie below. I recommend the following steps leading up to
the actual dimpling:
Drill the hole in a match hole drill operation so you have perfect
alignment. Is either #40 or #30 or #19 depending on the dimple size.
Debur the hole
Set up your dimpling work surface so the surrounding area is the same
height as the bottom die of the dimpler
Align the part being dimpled and with one hand pull down the top dimple
die and hold it down firmly so the male and female dies are engaged
slightly. ( I like to have the male die on the top for this.)
While holding the top die down, use Charlie's technique below.
Take your time. (I got in a hurry one time and put a dimple where it
made a new hole. Cost me some time and $$.) I have never broken a dimple
die. I use an Avery c-frame and for the biggest/most part have done all the
dimpling working alone.
Best wishes.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> >
> >
> I've broken one die & it was because the c-frame wasn't perfectly
> aligned & the sheet wasn't perfectly flat.
>
> What works for me now is to hold the die down firmly with one hand &
> strike one hard blow with the mallet. It's pretty impressive how hard
> you can hit without deforming anything but the dimple itself.
>
> Charlie
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Breaking Dimple Dies |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
One other method to consider is to modify your C-frame with Al Herrons lever
mod, I did this (see http://dbfiggins.home.comcast.net ) and it works well
and allows relatively easy single handed dimpling of skins. I did this after
I punched a hole in the wrong place with the hammer method.
Dave Figgins RV7A (waiting for wings)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies
--> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming"
--> <lhelming@sigecom.net>
Good advice by Charlie below. I recommend the following steps leading up to
the actual dimpling:
Drill the hole in a match hole drill operation so you have perfect
alignment. Is either #40 or #30 or #19 depending on the dimple size.
Debur the hole
Set up your dimpling work surface so the surrounding area is the same
height as the bottom die of the dimpler
Align the part being dimpled and with one hand pull down the top dimple
die and hold it down firmly so the male and female dies are engaged
slightly. ( I like to have the male die on the top for this.)
While holding the top die down, use Charlie's technique below.
Take your time. (I got in a hurry one time and put a dimple where it
made a new hole. Cost me some time and $$.) I have never broken a dimple
die. I use an Avery c-frame and for the biggest/most part have done all the
dimpling working alone.
Best wishes.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky)
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England
> --> <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> >
> >
> I've broken one die & it was because the c-frame wasn't perfectly
> aligned & the sheet wasn't perfectly flat.
>
> What works for me now is to hold the die down firmly with one hand &
> strike one hard blow with the mallet. It's pretty impressive how hard
> you can hit without deforming anything but the dimple itself.
>
> Charlie
>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Breaking Dimple Dies |
--> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP <Neal.George@MAXWELL.AF.MIL>
Needs three hands to operate, noisy, alignment issues, holes where they
don't belong...
All this is why my C-Frame is for sale.
DRDT-2 rocks. Thanks Paul!
Neal
RV-7 N8ZG (closing wings)
www.appaero.com
Do not archive
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<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Needs three hands to operate, noisy, alignment issues, holes where they
don't belong...
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>All this is why my C-Frame is for sale.
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>DRDT-2 rocks. Thanks Paul!
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Neal
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>RV-7 N8ZG (closing wings)
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>www.appaero.com
<span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Do not archive
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Right Angle Drill |
--> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net>
David Fenstermacher wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher@earthlink.net>
>
>It's not really "hard".
>The thing just gets a bit wiggly since it pivots at the driving end.
>Trying to hold the drill and the pancake attachment all at once, in a tight
>spot. Maybe it's just me, but the difficulty tolerance stack-up gets to
>this eye-hand-coordinationally challenged builder.
>
>
I think we are thinking of 2 different implementations of the same
idea. I was thinking of this....
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/dbpics/large/1750.jpg
And I think you are talking about one of these.....
http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/dbpics/large/T235.jpg
--
Chris W
Gift Giving Made Easy
Get the gifts you want &
give the gifts they want
http://thewishzone.com
Message 6
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| Subject: | Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips |
1.96 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters
--> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY@HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
I was going to use "oval threaded connectors" from http://www.mcmaster.com
(type "oval Threaded connectors" in the search block) The smallest ones
work great and come in stainless. Got mine at Home Depot. Then I decided
to get Van's deluxe replacement tail wheel springs in the "miscellaneous
items" area of the Van's on line catalog. They are all stainless and look
great but are a bit expensive, $125.00.
Rich Crosley
RV-8, N948RC
MMR11188888888
Rich CrosleyR111iscellaneous Items
Items
Message 7
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| Subject: | Need Builder Assist in Oregon |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6@bryantechnology.com>
Hello Listers,
In October I had major surgery and recovery has taken it's toll on me. I am
near completion of my RV-6 and had hoped to fly this spring. Unfortunately
due to the slower than expected recovery I have not been able to make much
progress on my plane.
I am looking for someone who does builder assist that could help me. Please
contact me offline for details of my project, etc. if you are inclined.
Thanks a bunch.
RV-6 N616TB
Redmond, OR.
Do Not Archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
List,
I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
happy to oblige.
I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
Questions:
- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
that too?
Any insight to this would be appreciated.
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" <bootless@earthlink.net>
Are you in a community property state? Most FAA ownership records I've seen
with married couples list the spouse as co-owner.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes
Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
List,
I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
happy to oblige.
I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
Questions:
- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
that too?
Any insight to this would be appreciated.
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the
registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is
public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an
owner of the plane under the insurance as well.
One less thing to have to sort out after a claim.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
> List,
>
> I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
> airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
> sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
> happy to oblige.
>
> I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
> paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
> searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
>
> Questions:
>
> - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
> name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
> - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
> Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
> - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
> that too?
>
> Any insight to this would be appreciated.
>
>
> Matthew Brandes,
> Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
> EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
> www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Matt,
1. The plane may be registered in both names. There are multiple blocks for
names and signatures at the bottom of the registration form.
2. The bill of sale from van's in only your name is not a problem.
3. No need to change the 'N' number reservation. As long as your name is on
the registration you should not ahve any problem.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
>Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:08:53 -0600
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
>List,
>
>I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
>airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
>sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
>happy to oblige.
>
>I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
>paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
>searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
>
>Questions:
>
>- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
>name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
>- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
>Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
>- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
>that too?
>
>Any insight to this would be appreciated.
>
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
>EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
>www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
She can be named on the insurance even though, in my case she is not a pilot?
At 04:01 PM 1/25/2005 -0600, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
>
>List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the
>registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is
>public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an
>owner of the plane under the insurance as well.
>
>One less thing to have to sort out after a claim.
>
>JT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
> >
> > List,
> >
> > I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
> > airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
> > sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
> > happy to oblige.
> >
> > I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
> > paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
> > searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
> >
> > Questions:
> >
> > - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
> > name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
> > - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
> > Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
> > - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
> > that too?
> >
> > Any insight to this would be appreciated.
> >
> >
> > Matthew Brandes,
> > Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
> > EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
> > www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Dana,
I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power
dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length.
The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of
brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I
assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old
Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In
the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is
7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I
would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying since July)
In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my
battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass.
As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning
on the switch...............................
I am having fun with wiring though.
Thanks,
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
Yes. The named insured section, and named pilots are seperate.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
> --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> She can be named on the insurance even though, in my case she is not a
pilot?
>
>
> At 04:01 PM 1/25/2005 -0600, you wrote:
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
> >
> >List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the
> >registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info
is
> >public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an
> >owner of the plane under the insurance as well.
> >
> >One less thing to have to sort out after a claim.
> >
> >JT
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
> >To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration!
> >
> >
> > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
> > >
> > > List,
> > >
> > > I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
> > > airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
> > > sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more
than
> > > happy to oblige.
> > >
> > > I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
> > > paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
> > > searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
> > >
> > > Questions:
> > >
> > > - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a
single
> > > name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
> > > - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on
it.
> > > Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
> > > - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to
change
> > > that too?
> > >
> > > Any insight to this would be appreciated.
> > >
> > >
> > > Matthew Brandes,
> > > Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
> > > EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
> > > www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter <jammeter@comcast.net>
Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in
the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The
ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is
when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT
go through the buss bar.
I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound
accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300
amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass
or copper bar.
I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer
to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that,
even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to
the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar
of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation
of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts
John
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:22:32 EST, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
>Dana,
>
>I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power
>dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
>both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length.
>The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of
>brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation
I
>assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old
>Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
>
>The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In
>the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
>like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is
>7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
>
>As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
>amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I
>would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion.
>
>Dan Hopper
>Walton, IN
>RV-7A (Flying since July)
>
>
>In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my
>battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass.
>As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
>between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
>any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
>mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning
>on the switch...............................
>
>I am having fun with wiring though.
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY i39
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
John,
Read your own post! He wants to " connect my battery contactor and starter
contactor."
I did make a rash assumption that the starter current is 300 amps, though.
Dan H.
In a message dated 1/25/05 5:48:57 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
jammeter@comcast.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter <jammeter@comcast.net>
Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in
the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The
ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is
when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT
go through the buss bar.
I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound
accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300
amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass
or copper bar.
I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer
to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that,
even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to
the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar
of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation
of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts
John
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:22:32 EST, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
>Dana,
>
>I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power
>dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
>both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in
length.
>The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of
>brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this
calculation I
>assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my
old
>Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
>
>The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts.
In
>the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
>like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current)
is
>7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
>
>As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
>amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher.
I
>would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my
opinion.
>
>Dan Hopper
>Walton, IN
>RV-7A (Flying since July)
>
>
>In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect
my
>battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062
brass.
>As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
>between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
>any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
>mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning
>on the switch...............................
>
>I am having fun with wiring though.
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY i39
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
>do not archive
>
>
Message 17
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|
| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
John,
I do agree with you that brass could be used for the bus bar connecting the
breakers. It would possibly have a corrosion advantage over copper for that
purpose.
Dan H
In a message dated 1/25/05 5:56:18 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh@aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
John,
Read your own post! He wants to " connect my battery contactor and starter
contactor."
I did make a rash assumption that the starter current is 300 amps, though.
Dan H.
In a message dated 1/25/05 5:48:57 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
jammeter@comcast.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter <jammeter@comcast.net>
Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in
the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The
ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is
when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT
go through the buss bar.
I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound
accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300
amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass
or copper bar.
I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer
to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that,
even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to
the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar
of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation
of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts
John
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using
electricity to turn your prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
> Dana,
>
> I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the
power
> dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
> both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in
length.
> The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity
of
> brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this
calculation I
> assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my
old
> Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
>
> The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts.
In
> the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
> like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x
current) is
> 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
>
> As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
> amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even
higher. I
> would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my
opinion.
>
> Dan Hopper
> Walton, IN
> RV-7A (Flying since July)
>
>
> In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
> bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect
my
> battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062
brass.
> As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
> between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
> any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
> mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of
turning
> on the switch...............................
>
> I am having fun with wiring though.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY i39
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> do not archive
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
I see what I did wrong. I called it a bus bar. Its not the bus bar in the
usual sense. Its a conductor connecting the master relay to the starter
relay.
Dan H.
In a message dated 1/25/05 6:18:03 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
cgalley@qcbc.org writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using
electricity to turn your prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh@aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar
> --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
> Dana,
>
> I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the
power
> dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
> both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in
length.
> The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity
of
> brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this
calculation I
> assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my
old
> Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
>
> The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts.
In
> the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
> like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x
current) is
> 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
>
> As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
> amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even
higher. I
> would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my
opinion.
>
> Dan Hopper
> Walton, IN
> RV-7A (Flying since July)
>
>
> In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
> bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect
my
> battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062
brass.
> As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
> between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
> any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
> mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of
turning
> on the switch...............................
>
> I am having fun with wiring though.
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Dana Overall
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
darny cy, that was going to be my line...
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley"
>
> If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using
> electricity to turn your prop.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
> >
> >
> > Dana,
> >
> > I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the
> power
> > dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
> > both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in
> length.
> > The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity
> of
> > brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this
> calculation I
> > assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my
> old
> > Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
> >
> > The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts.
> In
> > the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
> > like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x
> current) is
> > 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
> >
> > As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
> > amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even
> higher. I
> > would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my
> opinion.
> >
> > Dan Hopper
> > Walton, IN
> > RV-7A (Flying since July)
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
> > bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
> >
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall"
> >
> > A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect
> my
> > battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062
> brass.
> > As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
> > between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
> > any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
> > mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of
> turning
> > on the switch...............................
> >
> > I am having fun with wiring though.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Dana Overall
> > Richmond, KY i39
> > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> > Finish kit
> > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> > http://rvflying.tripod.com
> > do not archive
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
darny cy, that was going to be my line...
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <CGALLEY@QCBC.ORG>
If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using
electricity to turn your prop.
----- Original Message -----
From: <HOPPERDHH@AOL.COM>
To: <RV-LIST@MATRONICS.COM>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar
-- RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
Dana,
I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the
power
dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in
length.
The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x
10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity
of
brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this
calculation I
assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my
old
Sears Zemansky college physics book.
The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts.
In
the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x
current) is
7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even
higher. I
would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my
opinion.
<BR
> Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying since July)
In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
bo124rs@hotmail.com writes:
-- RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <BO124RS@HOTMAIL.COM>
A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect
my
battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062
brass.
As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference
between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or
any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as
mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of
turning
on the switch...............................
I am h
aving fun with wiring though.
Thanks,
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
do not archive
/www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
Message 21
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|
| Subject: | Electric Gyro death? |
--> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net
Hi :
Question,up to this day, everything is working OK, on my Instrument
pannel..
Today when I was checking, after turning the master switch, nothing
happened, the familiar winding,, never to occurred..
Any ideas why? everything is fine, all ligthts radios, strobes,
nav lights etc.. work fine...
I am tired of this electrical stuff...
Thanks for your ideas..
Bertrv6a
Do Not archive
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | oil cooler baffle cut out size |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
I have the largest size Positech oil cooler (supposedly the "new deisgn") and
I can't really install it how/where Van's shows to on the RV-8 io-360 plans.
If I build a slight standoff approximately 2 inches behind the rear baffle wall
a la Mark and Kevin's web sites, should I cut the baffle hole the full size of
the oil cooler even though some of that would be obstructed by the #4 cylinder
fins? If I did, I think I would be robbing the #4 cylinder of some air pressure
and /or allow heated air from that cylinder to enter into the oil cooler.
Isn't the idea behind the standoff to keep the opening only as large as what's
not obstructed by the cylinder fins and then allow the air to expand in the oil
cooler "plenum" and then enter the full oil cooler fin area.
Also, why are the oil coolers sometimes mounted at a slight angle? Did someone
determine that was better for drag or cooling efficiency? What's the magic angle?
Thanks,
Lucky
I have the largest size Positech oilcooler (supposedly the "new deisgn") and I
can't really install it how/where Van's shows to on the RV-8 io-360 plans.
IfI build a slight standoff approximately 2 inches behind the rear baffle wall
a la Mark and Kevin's web sites, should I cut the baffle hole the full size of
the oil cooler even though some of that would be obstructed by the #4 cylinder
fins? If I did, I think I would be robbing the #4 cylinder of some air pressure
and /or allow heated air from that cylinder to enter into the oil cooler.
Isn'tthe idea behind the standoffto keep the opening onlyas large as what's not
obstructed by the cylinder fins and then allow theair to expand in the oil cooler
"plenum" and then enter the full oil coolerfin area.
Also, why are the oil coolers sometimes mounted at a slight angle? Did someone
determine that was better for drag or cooling efficiency? What's the magic angle?
Thanks,
Lucky
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: Brass/Copper bus bar |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
Well, your calculations are all correct, and as others have pointed out
this will indeed be carrying the 300 amps.
However...
It will do so for a very short time - just until the engine actually
starts. So, while it will indeed dissipate 31 watts, it will heat very
little since it is dissipating this 31 watts for a few seconds at most.
Use whichever material you want to use. The practical difference is
irrelevant.
My $0.02...
Dick Tasker
Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
>
>
>Dana,
>
>I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power
>dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that
>both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length.
>The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of
>brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation
I
>assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old
>Sears & Zemansky college physics book.
>
>The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In
>the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem
>like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is
>7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass.
>
>As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant
>amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I
>would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion.
>
>Dan Hopper
>Walton, IN
>RV-7A (Flying since July)
>
>
>
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna@adelphia.net>
Matthew,
There can only be one person entitled to obtain the "repairmans
certificate", after you finish the plane. This is regardless of how many
people built it.
Charlie Kuss
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew@n523rv.com>
>
>List,
>
>I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my
>airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient
>sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than
>happy to oblige.
>
>I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on
>paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I
>searched the archives and couldn't find the messages.
>
>Questions:
>
>- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single
>name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes)
>- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it.
>Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it?
>- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change
>that too?
>
>Any insight to this would be appreciated.
>
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
>EAA Chapter 868/91/1329
>www.n523rv.com <BLOCKED::http://www.n523rv.com/>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
--> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol <bj034@lafn.org>
If you should expire and your wife is NOT on the registration, the
airplane will have to go through probate (in CA). If she is already on
the registration then your half will just transfer to her. Saves a LOT
of hassle. My wife went through this several years ago. The same applies
to automobiles.
Dave
JT Helms wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" <jhelms@nationair.com>
>
>List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the
>registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is
>public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an
>owner of the plane under the insurance as well.
>
>One less thing to have to sort out after a claim.
>
>JT
>
>
>
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: tank skin fit on wing |
--> RV-List message posted by: Warren Hurd <warren@ahyup.com>
Hi Gar,
I did this about a year ago, I had to remove some clecos to get the
tank to fit to wing. Hopefully that is your problem as you may have
already discovered. I have posted a few photos at
http://www.ahyup.com/LeftWing/ Good Luck.
Warren Hurd
Washington, NH
New Hampshire's highest town, and it is so cold that my tractor does not
start!
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