---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 01/25/05: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - Re: RV's/Warbirds (Kysh) 2. 04:48 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (LarryRobertHelming) 3. 05:20 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (Dave Figgins) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: Breaking Dimple Dies (George Neal E Capt AU/CCP) 5. 07:15 AM - Re: Right Angle Drill (Chris W) 6. 07:55 AM - Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips (Crosley, Rich) 7. 08:53 AM - Need Builder Assist in Oregon (Tim Bryan) 8. 01:45 PM - Wife wants her name on the registration! (Matthew Brandes) 9. 01:54 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Cory Emberson) 10. 02:02 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (JT Helms) 11. 02:20 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Mike Robertson) 12. 02:20 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Scott Bilinski) 13. 02:23 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 14. 02:38 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (JT Helms) 15. 02:47 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (John Ammeter) 16. 02:55 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 17. 03:05 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 18. 03:15 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (cgalley) 19. 03:27 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 20. 03:33 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 21. 03:38 PM - Electric Gyro death? (bertrv6@highstream.net) 22. 03:46 PM - oil cooler baffle cut out size (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 23. 05:47 PM - Re: Brass/Copper bus bar (Richard E. Tasker) 24. 06:52 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Charlie Kuss) 25. 09:07 PM - Re: Wife wants her name on the registration! (Dave Bristol) 26. 10:59 PM - Re: tank skin fit on wing (Warren Hurd) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:56 AM PST US From: Kysh Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's/Warbirds --> RV-List message posted by: Kysh > Want to see a grown man cry ? Mention to Tom the F-4's turned into tragets. That makes me cry, and I'm just a 'sprat' by many standards. It's an atrocity. :< -Kysh -- | 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying | | CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr | | 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang | | Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ | | KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham | | Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ | ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:19 AM PST US From: "LarryRobertHelming" Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" Good advice by Charlie below. I recommend the following steps leading up to the actual dimpling: Drill the hole in a match hole drill operation so you have perfect alignment. Is either #40 or #30 or #19 depending on the dimple size. Debur the hole Set up your dimpling work surface so the surrounding area is the same height as the bottom die of the dimpler Align the part being dimpled and with one hand pull down the top dimple die and hold it down firmly so the male and female dies are engaged slightly. ( I like to have the male die on the top for this.) While holding the top die down, use Charlie's technique below. Take your time. (I got in a hurry one time and put a dimple where it made a new hole. Cost me some time and $$.) I have never broken a dimple die. I use an Avery c-frame and for the biggest/most part have done all the dimpling working alone. Best wishes. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky) > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > > > > > > I've broken one die & it was because the c-frame wasn't perfectly > aligned & the sheet wasn't perfectly flat. > > What works for me now is to hold the die down firmly with one hand & > strike one hard blow with the mallet. It's pretty impressive how hard > you can hit without deforming anything but the dimple itself. > > Charlie > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:44 AM PST US From: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: "Dave Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net> One other method to consider is to modify your C-frame with Al Herrons lever mod, I did this (see http://dbfiggins.home.comcast.net ) and it works well and allows relatively easy single handed dimpling of skins. I did this after I punched a hole in the wrong place with the hammer method. Dave Figgins RV7A (waiting for wings) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming Subject: Re: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" --> Good advice by Charlie below. I recommend the following steps leading up to the actual dimpling: Drill the hole in a match hole drill operation so you have perfect alignment. Is either #40 or #30 or #19 depending on the dimple size. Debur the hole Set up your dimpling work surface so the surrounding area is the same height as the bottom die of the dimpler Align the part being dimpled and with one hand pull down the top dimple die and hold it down firmly so the male and female dies are engaged slightly. ( I like to have the male die on the top for this.) While holding the top die down, use Charlie's technique below. Take your time. (I got in a hurry one time and put a dimple where it made a new hole. Cost me some time and $$.) I have never broken a dimple die. I use an Avery c-frame and for the biggest/most part have done all the dimpling working alone. Best wishes. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" Evansville, Indiana (just north of western Kentucky) > --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England > --> > > > > > > I've broken one die & it was because the c-frame wasn't perfectly > aligned & the sheet wasn't perfectly flat. > > What works for me now is to hold the die down firmly with one hand & > strike one hard blow with the mallet. It's pretty impressive how hard > you can hit without deforming anything but the dimple itself. > > Charlie > advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:57 AM PST US From: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP Subject: RE: RV-List: Breaking Dimple Dies --> RV-List message posted by: George Neal E Capt AU/CCP Needs three hands to operate, noisy, alignment issues, holes where they don't belong... All this is why my C-Frame is for sale. DRDT-2 rocks. Thanks Paul! Neal RV-7 N8ZG (closing wings) www.appaero.com Do not archive Needs three hands to operate, noisy, alignment issues, holes where they don't belong... All this is why my C-Frame is for sale. DRDT-2 rocks. Thanks Paul! Neal RV-7 N8ZG (closing wings) www.appaero.com Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:18 AM PST US From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Right Angle Drill --> RV-List message posted by: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm@cox.net> David Fenstermacher wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Fenstermacher" > >It's not really "hard". >The thing just gets a bit wiggly since it pivots at the driving end. >Trying to hold the drill and the pancake attachment all at once, in a tight >spot. Maybe it's just me, but the difficulty tolerance stack-up gets to >this eye-hand-coordinationally challenged builder. > > I think we are thinking of 2 different implementations of the same idea. I was thinking of this.... http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/dbpics/large/1750.jpg And I think you are talking about one of these..... http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/dbpics/large/T235.jpg -- Chris W Gift Giving Made Easy Get the gifts you want & give the gifts they want http://thewishzone.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:45 AM PST US From: "Crosley, Rich" Subject: RV-List: Rust proof tail wheel spring connector clips 1.96 FROM_NO_LOWER From address has no lower-case characters --> RV-List message posted by: "Crosley, Rich" I was going to use "oval threaded connectors" from http://www.mcmaster.com (type "oval Threaded connectors" in the search block) The smallest ones work great and come in stainless. Got mine at Home Depot. Then I decided to get Van's deluxe replacement tail wheel springs in the "miscellaneous items" area of the Van's on line catalog. They are all stainless and look great but are a bit expensive, $125.00. Rich Crosley RV-8, N948RC MMR11188888888 Rich CrosleyR111iscellaneous Items Items ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:53:38 AM PST US From: "Tim Bryan" Subject: RV-List: Need Builder Assist in Oregon --> RV-List message posted by: "Tim Bryan" Hello Listers, In October I had major surgery and recovery has taken it's toll on me. I am near completion of my RV-6 and had hoped to fly this spring. Unfortunately due to the slower than expected recovery I have not been able to make much progress on my plane. I am looking for someone who does builder assist that could help me. Please contact me offline for details of my project, etc. if you are inclined. Thanks a bunch. RV-6 N616TB Redmond, OR. Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:23 PM PST US From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" List, I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than happy to oblige. I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. Questions: - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change that too? Any insight to this would be appreciated. Matthew Brandes, Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:00 PM PST US From: "Cory Emberson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "Cory Emberson" Are you in a community property state? Most FAA ownership records I've seen with married couples list the spouse as co-owner. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Brandes Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" List, I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than happy to oblige. I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. Questions: - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change that too? Any insight to this would be appreciated. Matthew Brandes, Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 www.n523rv.com ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:02:01 PM PST US From: "JT Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an owner of the plane under the insurance as well. One less thing to have to sort out after a claim. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Brandes" Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > > List, > > I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my > airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient > sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than > happy to oblige. > > I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on > paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I > searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. > > Questions: > > - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single > name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) > - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. > Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? > - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change > that too? > > Any insight to this would be appreciated. > > > Matthew Brandes, > Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) > EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 > www.n523rv.com > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:29 PM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" Matt, 1. The plane may be registered in both names. There are multiple blocks for names and signatures at the bottom of the registration form. 2. The bill of sale from van's in only your name is not a problem. 3. No need to change the 'N' number reservation. As long as your name is on the registration you should not ahve any problem. Mike Robertson >From: "Matthew Brandes" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 12:08:53 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > >List, > >I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my >airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient >sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than >happy to oblige. > >I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on >paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I >searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. > >Questions: > >- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single >name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) >- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. >Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? >- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change >that too? > >Any insight to this would be appreciated. > > >Matthew Brandes, >Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) >EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 >www.n523rv.com > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:29 PM PST US From: Scott Bilinski Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski She can be named on the insurance even though, in my case she is not a pilot? At 04:01 PM 1/25/2005 -0600, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" > >List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the >registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is >public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an >owner of the plane under the insurance as well. > >One less thing to have to sort out after a claim. > >JT >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Matthew Brandes" >To: >Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > > > > List, > > > > I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my > > airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient > > sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than > > happy to oblige. > > > > I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on > > paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I > > searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. > > > > Questions: > > > > - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single > > name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) > > - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. > > Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? > > - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change > > that too? > > > > Any insight to this would be appreciated. > > > > > > Matthew Brandes, > > Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) > > EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 > > www.n523rv.com > > > > > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:23:09 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Dana, I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old Sears & Zemansky college physics book. The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying since July) In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning on the switch............................... I am having fun with wiring though. Thanks, Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:38:25 PM PST US From: "JT Helms" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" Yes. The named insured section, and named pilots are seperate. JT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! > --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski > > She can be named on the insurance even though, in my case she is not a pilot? > > > At 04:01 PM 1/25/2005 -0600, you wrote: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" > > > >List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the > >registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is > >public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an > >owner of the plane under the insurance as well. > > > >One less thing to have to sort out after a claim. > > > >JT > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Matthew Brandes" > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > > > > > > List, > > > > > > I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my > > > airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient > > > sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than > > > happy to oblige. > > > > > > I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on > > > paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I > > > searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. > > > > > > Questions: > > > > > > - Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single > > > name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) > > > - The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. > > > Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? > > > - My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change > > > that too? > > > > > > Any insight to this would be appreciated. > > > > > > > > > Matthew Brandes, > > > Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) > > > EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 > > > www.n523rv.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:35 PM PST US From: John Ammeter Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT go through the buss bar. I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300 amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass or copper bar. I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that, even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts John On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:22:32 EST, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > >Dana, > >I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power >dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that >both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. >The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of >brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I >assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old >Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > >The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In >the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem >like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is >7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > >As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant >amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I >would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. > >Dan Hopper >Walton, IN >RV-7A (Flying since July) > > >In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, >bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > >A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my >battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. >As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference >between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or >any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as >mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning >on the switch............................... > >I am having fun with wiring though. > >Thanks, > > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY i39 >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >Finish kit >13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. >http://rvflying.tripod.com >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:04 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com John, Read your own post! He wants to " connect my battery contactor and starter contactor." I did make a rash assumption that the starter current is 300 amps, though. Dan H. In a message dated 1/25/05 5:48:57 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jammeter@comcast.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT go through the buss bar. I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300 amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass or copper bar. I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that, even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts John On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 17:22:32 EST, you wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > >Dana, > >I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power >dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that >both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. >The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of >brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I >assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old >Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > >The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In >the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem >like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is >7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > >As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant >amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I >would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. > >Dan Hopper >Walton, IN >RV-7A (Flying since July) > > >In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, >bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > >A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my >battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. >As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference >between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or >any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as >mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning >on the switch............................... > >I am having fun with wiring though. > >Thanks, > > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY i39 >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >Finish kit >13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. >http://rvflying.tripod.com >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:05:51 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com John, I do agree with you that brass could be used for the bus bar connecting the breakers. It would possibly have a corrosion advantage over copper for that purpose. Dan H In a message dated 1/25/05 5:56:18 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh@aol.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com John, Read your own post! He wants to " connect my battery contactor and starter contactor." I did make a rash assumption that the starter current is 300 amps, though. Dan H. In a message dated 1/25/05 5:48:57 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, jammeter@comcast.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: John Ammeter Uh, where did you get 300 amps?? The buss bar described in the original post was for use on the instrument panel. The ONLY time you may have 300 amps coming from the battery is when you're starting the engine. And, that circuit does NOT go through the buss bar. I haven't checked your calculations but they do sound accurate but the negligible currents (in comparison to 300 amps) present in the panel certainly won't heat up the brass or copper bar. I'd say the maximum current you might find would be closer to 30 amps (and I really think it's much less than that, even...) so you need to move the decimal point one place to the left giving you a voltage drop across the brass buss bar of 0.0104 volts which, in turn, gives you a heat dissipation of 30 x 0.0104= 0.3 watts John ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:55 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using electricity to turn your prop. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > > Dana, > > I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power > dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that > both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. > The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of > brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I > assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old > Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > > The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In > the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem > like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is > 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > > As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant > amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I > would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. > > Dan Hopper > Walton, IN > RV-7A (Flying since July) > > > In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, > bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my > battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. > As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference > between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or > any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as > mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning > on the switch............................... > > I am having fun with wiring though. > > Thanks, > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:27:31 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com I see what I did wrong. I called it a bus bar. Its not the bus bar in the usual sense. Its a conductor connecting the master relay to the starter relay. Dan H. In a message dated 1/25/05 6:18:03 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, cgalley@qcbc.org writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using electricity to turn your prop. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > > Dana, > > I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power > dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that > both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. > The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of > brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I > assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old > Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > > The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In > the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem > like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is > 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > > As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant > amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I > would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. > > Dan Hopper > Walton, IN > RV-7A (Flying since July) > > > In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, > bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my > battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. > As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference > between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or > any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as > mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning > on the switch............................... > > I am having fun with wiring though. > > Thanks, > > > Dana Overall ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:39 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) darny cy, that was going to be my line... do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using > electricity to turn your prop. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > > > > > Dana, > > > > I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the > power > > dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that > > both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in > length. > > The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity > of > > brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this > calculation I > > assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my > old > > Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > > > > The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. > In > > the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem > > like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x > current) is > > 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > > > > As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant > > amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even > higher. I > > would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my > opinion. > > > > Dan Hopper > > Walton, IN > > RV-7A (Flying since July) > > > > > > In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, > > bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > > A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect > my > > battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 > brass. > > As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference > > between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or > > any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as > > mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of > turning > > on the switch............................... > > > > I am having fun with wiring though. > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY i39 > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > > Finish kit > > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > > http://rvflying.tripod.com > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > darny cy, that was going to be my line... do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" If you are pulling 300 amps across your switch bus, you must be using electricity to turn your prop. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar -- RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Dana, I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old Sears Zemansky college physics book. The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is 7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion.
Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying since July) In a message dated 1/22/05 8:39:46 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: -- RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" A search of the local hardware stores only netted .025 copper to connect my battery contactor and starter contactor. However, I found some .062 brass. As a total "non electrical" guy, what is the conductive/heat difference between brass and copper? Is brass acceptable in this application (or any)...................if not, don't shame me....................as mechanical as I am I still only understand electricity to point of turning on the switch............................... I am h aving fun with wiring though. Thanks, Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com do not archive /www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:56 PM PST US From: bertrv6@highstream.net Subject: RV-List: Electric Gyro death? --> RV-List message posted by: bertrv6@highstream.net Hi : Question,up to this day, everything is working OK, on my Instrument pannel.. Today when I was checking, after turning the master switch, nothing happened, the familiar winding,, never to occurred.. Any ideas why? everything is fine, all ligthts radios, strobes, nav lights etc.. work fine... I am tired of this electrical stuff... Thanks for your ideas.. Bertrv6a Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:58 PM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: RV-List: oil cooler baffle cut out size 0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary 0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) I have the largest size Positech oil cooler (supposedly the "new deisgn") and I can't really install it how/where Van's shows to on the RV-8 io-360 plans. If I build a slight standoff approximately 2 inches behind the rear baffle wall a la Mark and Kevin's web sites, should I cut the baffle hole the full size of the oil cooler even though some of that would be obstructed by the #4 cylinder fins? If I did, I think I would be robbing the #4 cylinder of some air pressure and /or allow heated air from that cylinder to enter into the oil cooler. Isn't the idea behind the standoff to keep the opening only as large as what's not obstructed by the cylinder fins and then allow the air to expand in the oil cooler "plenum" and then enter the full oil cooler fin area. Also, why are the oil coolers sometimes mounted at a slight angle? Did someone determine that was better for drag or cooling efficiency? What's the magic angle? Thanks, Lucky I have the largest size Positech oilcooler (supposedly the "new deisgn") and I can't really install it how/where Van's shows to on the RV-8 io-360 plans. IfI build a slight standoff approximately 2 inches behind the rear baffle wall a la Mark and Kevin's web sites, should I cut the baffle hole the full size of the oil cooler even though some of that would be obstructed by the #4 cylinder fins? If I did, I think I would be robbing the #4 cylinder of some air pressure and /or allow heated air from that cylinder to enter into the oil cooler. Isn'tthe idea behind the standoffto keep the opening onlyas large as what's not obstructed by the cylinder fins and then allow theair to expand in the oil cooler "plenum" and then enter the full oil coolerfin area. Also, why are the oil coolers sometimes mounted at a slight angle? Did someone determine that was better for drag or cooling efficiency? What's the magic angle? Thanks, Lucky ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:26 PM PST US From: "Richard E. Tasker" Subject: Re: RV-List: Brass/Copper bus bar --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" Well, your calculations are all correct, and as others have pointed out this will indeed be carrying the 300 amps. However... It will do so for a very short time - just until the engine actually starts. So, while it will indeed dissipate 31 watts, it will heat very little since it is dissipating this 31 watts for a few seconds at most. Use whichever material you want to use. The practical difference is irrelevant. My $0.02... Dick Tasker Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > >Dana, > >I went through some calculations for both the voltage dropped and the power >dissipated in bus bars made of both copper and brass. It was assumed that >both would be 1/16 inch by 1/2 inch in cross section by 4 inches in length. >The conductivity of copper is 1.72 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. The conductivity of >brass is from 6 to 8 x 10 -8 ohm.meter. For the purpose of this calculation I >assumed that brass was 4 times that of copper. These values came from my old >Sears & Zemansky college physics book. > >The voltage drop in the 4 inch copper strap at 300 amps is 0.026 volts. In >the brass strap it would be 4 times that, or 0.104 volts. These may seem >like small voltage drops but the power dissipated (voltage drop x current) is >7.8 watts for the copper vs. 31.2 watts for the brass. > >As you can see, the brass strip is starting to dissipate a significant >amount of power. And as it heats up, its resistance would go even higher. I >would go with the copper strip, but keep it 1/16 inch thick. Only my opinion. > >Dan Hopper >Walton, IN >RV-7A (Flying since July) > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:42 PM PST US From: Charlie Kuss Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie Kuss Matthew, There can only be one person entitled to obtain the "repairmans certificate", after you finish the plane. This is regardless of how many people built it. Charlie Kuss >--> RV-List message posted by: "Matthew Brandes" > >List, > >I am just beginning to look into the required documentation to get my >airplane registered and certificated. My lovely and ever-so-impatient >sweetie would like her name on the paperwork as well, which I am more than >happy to oblige. > >I recall a discussion last year about multiple builders and names on >paperwork and how you could only have one name on one of the forms. I >searched the archives and couldn't find the messages. > >Questions: > >- Can I register the plane in both of our names? Or must it be a single >name? (Would register as Matthew & Sandra Brandes) >- The bill of sale that I just received from Van's has just my name on it. >Will I need to get a new one with both of our names on it? >- My N-number is reserved in my name only. Am I going to have to change >that too? > >Any insight to this would be appreciated. > > >Matthew Brandes, >Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit) >EAA Chapter 868/91/1329 >www.n523rv.com > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:46 PM PST US From: Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Wife wants her name on the registration! clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org --> RV-List message posted by: Dave Bristol If you should expire and your wife is NOT on the registration, the airplane will have to go through probate (in CA). If she is already on the registration then your half will just transfer to her. Saves a LOT of hassle. My wife went through this several years ago. The same applies to automobiles. Dave JT Helms wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "JT Helms" > >List the registered owners all on the insurance. If she's on the >registration, she could be sued in the event of a claim as the FAA info is >public. If she's listed as a named insured then she gets protection as an >owner of the plane under the insurance as well. > >One less thing to have to sort out after a claim. > >JT > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:40 PM PST US From: Warren Hurd Subject: Re: RV-List: tank skin fit on wing --> RV-List message posted by: Warren Hurd Hi Gar, I did this about a year ago, I had to remove some clecos to get the tank to fit to wing. Hopefully that is your problem as you may have already discovered. I have posted a few photos at http://www.ahyup.com/LeftWing/ Good Luck. Warren Hurd Washington, NH New Hampshire's highest town, and it is so cold that my tractor does not start!