Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:01 AM - Re: castle nut - bolt line-up ()
2. 02:09 AM - Re: Wig Wag (Jim Jewell)
3. 03:50 AM - Re: castle nut - bolt line-up (Kyle Boatright)
4. 04:07 AM - February 26th. RV flyin (Dana Overall)
5. 05:42 AM - Re: Wig Wag (Bill VonDane)
6. 05:55 AM - Re: Landing Lights (David Figgins)
7. 06:09 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Bryan Jones)
8. 06:17 AM - Re: Re: Landing Lights (Bobby Hester)
9. 07:04 AM - Re: Landing Lights (JOHN STARN)
10. 08:23 AM - Re: castle nut - bolt line-up ()
11. 08:32 AM - Re: engine hic-up (Chuck Weyant)
12. 09:09 AM - Re: February 26th. RV flyin (Richard V. Reynolds)
13. 09:23 AM - Re: [RV7Yahoo] Re: Electrical Tools (Bobby Hester)
14. 09:26 AM - Re: engine hic-up (Bob J)
15. 09:30 AM - Re: engine hic-up (Bob J)
16. 09:34 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers)
17. 09:42 AM - engine hic-up (Tony Marshall)
18. 09:46 AM - Re: engine hic-up (Gary Zilik)
19. 09:50 AM - Re: Landing Lights (Scott Jackson)
20. 10:10 AM - Re: engine hic-up (Mike Robertson)
21. 10:19 AM - engine hic-up (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR)
22. 11:03 AM - Re: engine hic-up (linn walters)
23. 01:54 PM - FW: engine hic-up (James E. Clark)
24. 04:18 PM - torque wrench calibration (sarg314)
25. 04:49 PM - Re: FW: engine hic-up (RVer273sb@aol.com)
26. 05:49 PM - Re: torque wrench calibration (John Furey)
27. 06:09 PM - Weighty Question (Konrad L. Werner)
28. 06:22 PM - Re: Wig Wag (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com)
29. 06:28 PM - Re: Weighty Question (Dan Checkoway)
30. 06:54 PM - For Sale (smoothweasel@juno.com)
31. 07:23 PM - Re: torque wrench calibration (Finn Lassen)
32. 08:11 PM - Re: torque wrench calibration (sarg314)
33. 08:16 PM - Re: torque wrench calibration (sarg314)
34. 08:30 PM - Re: castle nut - bolt line-up (Richard Sipp)
35. 09:20 PM - Re: Weighty Question (Konrad L. Werner)
36. 09:43 PM - Re: torque wrench calibration (Kathleen (rv7))
Message 1
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| Subject: | castle nut - bolt line-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>I am trying to bolt the engine mount to the RV-6A firewall (not the
>engine yet). The problem is that for most of the bolts I can't get the
>hole for the cotter pin to line up with the slot in the castle nut and
>still stay within the 160 - 190 in-lb torque range of the AN6 bolts.
Tom:
You are right you don't want to mis-treat the bolts. Close will be good enough,
say 150 to 200 in-lbs. Get it close and jam the cotter in. This is not a watch
works or engine rod bolts. Before everyone writes in about my irreverence for
standard torque values, let me explain:
First, torque serves two purposes, keeps the bolt from coming loose by friction
and pre-loads the bolt in tension. With a cotter pin we're not worried about
it coming loose. The pre-load tension "stretches" the bolt and compress the part
"stack-up". This can have a positive affect on fatigue life in some applications.
Here we have a rubber mount, which is compressed to a set amount by it's
internal spacer. 10 in-lbs is not going to make any difference to the rubber
mount. Preload tension is critical on on high load, high cyclic bolts, such as
on connecting rods, with 11 load reversals every second. Try to get torque close,
but you got-a-get the cotter pin in, right.
Last, torque and bolt pre-load are only approximately related. If the threads are
dry or "wet" with some oil, even skin oil from handling, actual bolt "pre-load"
will vary more than 5%. A small variation in torque and it's affect on pre-load
is inconsequential for the engine mount, especially since you have no
real way of knowing what the real preload is anyway. It is not that critical here.
Don't sweat it too much, I agree play with washers, nuts-n-bolts is a good idea.
It does not help every time but all you need is close, good luck.
Cheers G
---------------------------------
Message 2
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Dean,
Me To Please!
Jim in Kelowna Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson@consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wig Wag
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
> <sisson@consolidated.net>
>
> DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
>><dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
>>
>>Len/listers:
>>
>>I have a schematic for this type of flasher, it basically does the same
>>thing as the wig wag but without all the frills(turn it on and it
>>alternately flashes your two landing lights, that's all). The design is
>>very simple and uses basically 4 solid state components that I purchased
>>through Digi Key for less than 10 dollars! I didn't design the circuit
>>but the designer is a Lancair builder who published it in one of the
>>electronic trade magazines. He was more than happy to answer my question
>>about using 100 watt aviation lights with it instead of his 50 watt car
>>halogens (it's plenty robust to operate at the higher currents needed for
>>the aviation lights). Since the schematic is public knowledge I'm happy
>>to share it with anyone who is interested in rolling their own wig wag.
>>Just contact me off list and I'll email you a scanned version of the
>>schematic and the basic circuit description.
>>
>>Note: you need to have some basic knowledge of reading electronic
>>schematics to be able to do this, but this is a simple circuit that could
>>even be built on a radio schack perfboard if you really wanted to save
>>money. Not for HID lights (thier ballasts don't like being switched on
>>and off that fast and... if you have these really bright lights chances
>>are you'll be seen, even in the daytime, if you have them on)!
>>
>>Dean Psiropoulos
>>RV-6A N197DM
>>Light at the end of the tunnel getting briter.
>>
>>
> Dean, I would like a copy of the light flasher if you don't mind..
>
> thanks, Phil......... in Illinois
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: castle nut - bolt line-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1@comcast.net>
>
>> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>>I am trying to bolt the engine mount to the RV-6A firewall (not the
>>engine yet). The problem is that for most of the bolts I can't get the
>>hole for the cotter pin to line up with the slot in the castle nut and
>>still stay within the 160 - 190 in-lb torque range of the AN6 bolts.
>
You may already know this, but the method I was taught was to torque the nut
to the low value, and see if the cotter would fit. If not, continue
tightening the nut until the cotter fits, or you reach the high torque
value - whichever comes first. If you still cannot get the cotter to fit,
add either a full or 1/2 thickness washer and try again.
KB
Message 4
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| Subject: | February 26th. RV flyin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK gang, it official. I'm starting to get door prizes in and will start
naming names here shortly. Last year we had 87 RV's as of noon when I
stopped counting deal with lunch. This year it looks like lunch will be
even better. As you remember, we had Hooters wings but no Hooters girls.
Well, that will change this year. Be sure and bring your tip money, that is
all I'll say right now:-)
Start planning on your flights but do remember there is restricted airspace
above the Army Depot to the east side of the interstate. Parking will be on
the ramp on a first come first serve basis. Overflow parking is easily
accomodated on the taxiway. I haven't yet talked with Mike from TeamRV but
will be pushing that button later today along with the FFI cardholders from
my group The Ohio Valley RVators. Guess this year I'll wear a TeamRV
sweetshirt and an OVRVators hat:-)
Reserve parking will be avaiable on the ramp for any Super 8s, Rotary RVs,
OVRVators and Team RV. I am going to request a missing man display in
respect for my father, NOMAD's recently deceased father, Turbo Tom, our
troops and anyone else who has suffered a loss since last year's flyin.
Remember, this a flyin. No forums, no lectures, no presentations just a
bunch of liers walking around swapping airplanes lies.............or, I mean
stories:-) Just be careful, as the pattern was full of RV last year. We
did have great weather last year which allowed people to fly in from
Floriday, Michigan, PN, Iowa and all parts between.
OK, you guys form Indy lets see if you can top your turnout of 25+ last year
and OVRVators, let's give them a run for their money!!
Just a teaser, here are the shots from last year. Let's put it in the top
10 RV attended flyins again!!
http://members16.clubphoto.com/rick742624/guest.phtml
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 5
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bill VonDane" <bill@vondane.com>
I have come up with 4 different ways to do this with my wig-wag unit, which
has the same pinout as 'Lectric Bob's... You can check out my installation
instructions, which contain the wiring diagrams, here:
www.creativair.com/source/_inst/exfla.pdf
I sell either just the flasher, or kits with switches and connectors:
www.creativair.com
...or you can source your own parts and roll your own...
-Bill VonDane
bill@vondane.com
RV-8A ~ Colorado Springs
www.rv8a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: Wig Wag
--> RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS"
<dean.psiropoulos@verizon.net>
Len/listers:
I have a schematic for this type of flasher, it basically does the same
thing as the wig wag but without all the frills(turn it on and it
alternately flashes your two landing lights, that's all). The design is
very simple and uses basically 4 solid state components that I purchased
through Digi Key for less than 10 dollars! I didn't design the circuit but
the designer is a Lancair builder who published it in one of the electronic
trade magazines. He was more than happy to answer my question about using
100 watt aviation lights with it instead of his 50 watt car halogens (it's
plenty robust to operate at the higher currents needed for the aviation
lights). Since the schematic is public knowledge I'm happy to share it with
anyone who is interested in rolling their own wig wag. Just contact me off
list and I'll email you a scanned version of the schematic and the basic
circuit description.
Note: you need to have some basic knowledge of reading electronic schematics
to be able to do this, but this is a simple circuit that could even be built
on a radio schack perfboard if you really wanted to save money. Not for HID
lights (thier ballasts don't like being switched on and off that fast and...
if you have these really bright lights chances are you'll be seen, even in
the daytime, if you have them on)!
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Light at the end of the tunnel getting briter.
-----------------------------------------------Original
message-------------------------------------
>Lenleg@aol.com wrote:
>RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com
>Anybody give me the contact info for Bob Haan ... producer of the Wig
>Wag????
>Thanks !!
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>315 hrs
Message 6
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--> RV-List message posted by: "David Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
For a newbie getting back into flying after a long absence is there a
primer/discussion on what a wig/wag is and why it is important?
Dave RV7A wings on order
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Lights
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>"Dean" <dvanwinkle@royell.net> wrote:
>I don't personally contemplate going with the WigWag setup but instead With
the 3 light >strobes. I just prefer to control the 2 landing lights
individually. I see nothing wrong with your >approach as long as it is
wired and fused correctly. If one of your lights fails, the other one
>should still work.
If you already have two lights on the wing, why not use a wigwag? Why cant
you have a wigwag and also still have individual control of the landing
lights? I am not a human factors engineer and can't explain it, but my
calibrated Mark VII eye-balls say wigwags are easily seen and more effective
than anything else during daytime.
Strobes in the daytime are of very little use, in my opinion. Landing lights
on steady have very little visual affect in the day, but more than strobes.
There is something about the alternating flash of landing lights that makes
them much more effective, day or night. The likely direction of a mid-air
threat is from the front, where the landing lights are focused. Being
visible to avoid a mid air is what I am talking about.
As a universal procedure airlines use strobes and landing lights, day or
night, on approach. From the end of the runway it is not always easy to see
airliners landing during the day, especially in hazy conditions. These are
big airplane coming right at you, and you know where to look. Strobes are
almost invisible, and compared to alternating landing light pulses, steady
landing lights have little visual affect. Southwest Airlines is one of few
airline that uses wigwags, as do some business jets. I can always spot the
Southwest wigwag on approach sooner and much further out. It just stands
out.
Many wigwag setups are available, not expensive and easy to install,
especially if you already plan on wing lights. You can wire the wigwag and
lights to have as much control over the individual lights as you want. I
highly recommend them (even for day vfr), because I want to see you first.
;-)
Cheers George
---------------------------------
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 7
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
It's a human factors thing. Pulsating lights (Wig-Wag) are easier to pick
up visually. I would guess the name Wig-Wag comes from the fact that the
lights cycle in intensity left to right. The left illuminates and dims then
the right illuminates and dims, repeat. It looks like the lighting is
rocking back and forth, or wig-wagging.
One benefit not mentioned is that a solid state controlled two-bulb Wig-Wag
ought to use less power than a two-bulb continuous system. Provides the
safety advantage of a larger pattern, multi-point illumination with near
half the power consumption. Not helpful when trying to get as many lumens
as possible on the ground when trying to land though.
Bryan -8
Houston
>For a newbie getting back into flying after a long absence is there a
>primer/discussion on what a wig/wag is and why it is important?
>Dave RV7A wings on order
>Do not archive
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "David Figgins" <2004nospam@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:51 (CDT)
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing Lights
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "David Figgins"
>
> For a newbie getting back into flying after a long absence is there a
> primer/discussion on what a wig/wag is and why it is important?
> Dave RV7A wings on order
> Do not archive
Go here and scroll about half way down the page:
http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/CoolRVAdditions.htm
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn@verizon.net>
There are two examples of the wig-wag effect that uses only one light
source. Modern trains have three lights mounted in a triangle shape with the
top light swinging back & forth. Many years ago while directing traffic etc
as a patrolman I used a 5 cell flashlight to wave down or get the attention
of the driver of an approaching vehicle. Moving the light back & forth
across the windshield got the drivers attention even with all the emergency
lights etc at an accident site. We can't (w/o a lot of extra work & weight)
do either on an airplane but we can alternate the light from side to side
(wing to wing) and have the same basic effect.......attract attention of
others that a airplane cometh. Do Not Archive KABONG (GBA & GWB) 8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing Lights
> It's a human factors thing. Pulsating lights (Wig-Wag) are easier to pick
> up visually.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: castle nut - bolt line-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
>What about filling or grinding off a small portion of the mount tube
>itself to make it slightly shorter?
I don't think that is a great idea. The design of the spacer compresses the mount
to predetermined height the engineers calculated was required.
Repeatedly installing the nut and removing it several times to get the perfect
torque will change the threads each time. You are also wearing the finish off.
I would be more worried about repeated on and offs damaging the bolt than perfect
torque. Also each time you install it the change in the threads will affect
how much preload you get for an indicated torque.
Also torquing the nut down should be done in one motion. Stopping and starting
is not going to give consistent results. One approach would be torque to the average
torque. Then make a SMALL adjustment visually to align the cotter pin hole
if needed. Small means less than 1/24th of a turn. If the nut is totally
blocking the hole you can use a (0.003) thicker or thinner washer. Get a stack
of the little thin shim washers to choose from, you will find the washers vary
by several thousands, or as Dave (dreel@cox.net) suggested, mod the washer and
refinish it. I have known a few to "smack" washers to flatten them. (.0035)
is worth about 1/12th a turn on a AN6 2/8"-24. You will have the most perfectly
torqued engine mounts around ;-) Good luck.
Cheers G. (RV-4, RV-7 lots of pieces)
---------------------------------
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
I'll bet carb.
Chuck
> > >Listers,
> > > Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
> > > Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
> > > I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
> > >elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left elect
> ign
> > >and installed a mag. Still does it.
> > > This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
> > > Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
> > >Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
> > >do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a full
> > >power climb sustained for several minutes.
> > > I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
> > > Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
> > >The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
> > >more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
> > >or fuel pressure.????
> > > Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
> > >Thank you,
> > >Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: February 26th. RV flyin |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds@macs.net>
OK, it may be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer, BUT I do not
have a clue where this fly-in is.
Five simple rules:
who
what
where (you forgot this! State, City, Airport Name, Identifer)
when (start and end times)
why
Richard Reynolds
PS You are not the only one who makes this mistake.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: [RV7Yahoo] RE: Electrical Tools |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" <bhester@hopkinsville.net> (by way
of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Stringham <fstringham7a@yahoo.com>
> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:35 (CDT)
> Subject: [RV7Yahoo] RE: Electrical Tools
>
> Hi to all
>
> Ready to start the electrical process and need to get tools. What have you
> folks found to be a good set / type / name brand electrical tools to buy. I
> do know my house construction electrical tools are a bit much for the
> planes delicate wires and materials.
>
> TIA
You can get everything you need here:
http://www.bandc.biz/parts.html
http://www.steinair.com/
You'll need:
RCT-1 - PIDG Style Crimp Tool
RCT-2 - BNC Coax Crimp Tool
RCT-3 - D-Sub Pin/Socket Crimper (maybe)
BCT-1 - B-Crimp Open Barrel Terminal Tool (maybe)
DSE-1 - Insertion/Extraction Tool - D-Sub Pin (maybe)
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J <rocketbob@gmail.com>
did you run it on mag-only, without the ignition on? Which ignition?
Electroair?
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:25:35 -0800 (PST), RVer273sb@aol.com
<RVer273sb@aol.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>
> Listers,
> Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
> Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
> I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
> elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left elect ign
> and installed a mag. Still does it.
> This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
> Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
> Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
> do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a full
> power climb sustained for several minutes.
> I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
> Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
> The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
> more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
> or fuel pressure.????
> Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
> Thank you,
> Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bob J <rocketbob@gmail.com>
did you run it on mag-only, without the ignition on? Which ignition?
Electroair?
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:25:35 -0800 (PST), RVer273sb@aol.com
<RVer273sb@aol.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
>
> Listers,
> Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
> Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
> I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
> elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left elect ign
> and installed a mag. Still does it.
> This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
> Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
> Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
> do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a full
> power climb sustained for several minutes.
> I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
> Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
> The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
> more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
> or fuel pressure.????
> Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
> Thank you,
> Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
>
>
>
Message 16
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| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne@engravers.net>
I even have wig-wag lights on my Powered Parachute because I fly out of
airport that gets a lot of transient traffic. I want to be seen especially
after sun set or during overcast days. I been told that I look like a
Christmas tree all lit up and can be seen from miles away, just the purpose
I was intending.
I made mine from a solid state unit used in police cars. Two 55 watt fog
lights throw a nice wide pattern to be seen from greater angles off center
line of my craft. This still gives me plenty of forward light to land at 30
MPH. Not that I need a lot of light to land since I'm only allowed to fly
up to a half an hour after sun set.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "randall" <rv6n6r@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Landing Lights
> --> RV-List message posted by: "randall" <rv6n6r@comcast.net>
>
>> I recently did this too. One side is useful in a tail-low position, the
>> other side, tail up. On short final they are both somewhat useful. Only
>> tested at dusk so far....
>
> I make a fair number of night landings in my -6 and I'm very glad I have
> one
> in each wing. As others have mentioned, it really helps to have one
> pointing
> up and one down in a tailtragger. BTW these are Duckworks lights.
>
> Also its cool to have a wigwag -- and safer!
>
> Randall Henderson
> RV-6
>
>
>
Message 17
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
When you say 'hic-up' what do you mean? A slight pause in acceleration? A
misfire of a couple of cylinders? I'm just not sure what you mean.....and
the reason I ask is that my 0360, at low rpms, after deceleration (like
adding throttle in base to final), with or without boost pump, pauses
instantaneously, but always catches. I would like to get rid of that, too,
but am not sure what causes it. Otherwise the engine performs flawlessly.
Tony Marshall
RV6
Polson MT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: engine hic-up
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>
> I'll bet carb.
> Chuck
>
>> > >Listers,
>> > > Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
>> > > Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
>> > > I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
>> > >elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left
>> > >elect
>> ign
>> > >and installed a mag. Still does it.
>> > > This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
>> > > Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
>> > >Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
>> > >do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a
>> > >full
>> > >power climb sustained for several minutes.
>> > > I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
>> > > Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
>> > >The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
>> > >more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
>> > >or fuel pressure.????
>> > > Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
>> > >Thank you,
>> > >Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
>
>
>
Message 18
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@excelgeo.com>
Me too. But I think Stewart is running with an AFP FI system.
Gary
Chuck Weyant wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>
> I'll bet carb.
> Chuck
>
>
>>>>Listers,
>>>> Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
>>>> Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
>>>> I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
>>>>elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left elect
>>
>>ign
>>
>>>>and installed a mag. Still does it.
>>>> This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
>>>> Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
>>>>Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
>>>>do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a full
>>>>power climb sustained for several minutes.
>>>> I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
>>>> Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
>>>>The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
>>>>more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
>>>>or fuel pressure.????
>>>> Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
>>>>Thank you,
>>>>Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | Re: Landing Lights |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott@telus.net>
Apparently our ancestral logic is wired to perceive movement before noticing
stationary objects, probably so we could run away from carnivorous
predators.
The wig-wag lights, by giving the illusion of moving from one wingtip to the
other, subconsciously "catch" a person's attention.
Scott in VAncouver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Landing Lights
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" <rv_8pilot@hotmail.com>
>
> It's a human factors thing. Pulsating lights (Wig-Wag) are easier to pick
> up visually. I would guess the name Wig-Wag comes from the fact that the
> lights cycle in intensity left to right. The left illuminates and dims
> then
> the right illuminates and dims, repeat. It looks like the lighting is
> rocking back and forth, or wig-wagging.
>
> One benefit not mentioned is that a solid state controlled two-bulb
> Wig-Wag
> ought to use less power than a two-bulb continuous system. Provides the
> safety advantage of a larger pattern, multi-point illumination with near
> half the power consumption. Not helpful when trying to get as many lumens
> as possible on the ground when trying to land though.
>
> Bryan -8
> Houston
>
>
>>For a newbie getting back into flying after a long absence is there a
>>primer/discussion on what a wig/wag is and why it is important?
>>Dave RV7A wings on order
>>Do not archive
>
>
>
Message 20
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
Tony,
That is usually a symptom of an accelerator pump in the carb not working
correctly. Not always, but usually.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: engine hic-up
>Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:38:20 -0700
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
>
>When you say 'hic-up' what do you mean? A slight pause in acceleration? A
>misfire of a couple of cylinders? I'm just not sure what you mean.....and
>the reason I ask is that my 0360, at low rpms, after deceleration (like
>adding throttle in base to final), with or without boost pump, pauses
>instantaneously, but always catches. I would like to get rid of that, too,
>but am not sure what causes it. Otherwise the engine performs flawlessly.
>
>Tony Marshall
>RV6
>Polson MT
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: engine hic-up
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
> >
> > I'll bet carb.
> > Chuck
> >
> >> > >Listers,
> >> > > Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
> >> > > Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
> >> > > I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
> >> > >elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left
> >> > >elect
> >> ign
> >> > >and installed a mag. Still does it.
> >> > > This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
> >> > > Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
> >> > >Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might
>not
> >> > >do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a
> >> > >full
> >> > >power climb sustained for several minutes.
> >> > > I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
> >> > > Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
> >> > >The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
> >> > >more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
> >> > >or fuel pressure.????
> >> > > Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
> >> > >Thank you,
> >> > >Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen@UTCFuelCells.com>
Stewart,
What is the 10-XXXX number on your carb? Some carbs have the float bowl
vent 90* to the intake air, some have them perpendicular to the intake air
path.
I had a 10-10XX body carb that would produce a hic-up as the ram air
pressure
began to exceed the intake suction. It turned out to be the bowl vent/airbox
combination that was causing the problem. Changing out the carb to a
different
body 10-XXXX number (with a different vent configuration) solved the
problem.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Time: 03:03:52 PM PST US
From: RVer273sb@aol.com <mailto:RVer273sb@aol.com>
Subject: engine hic-up
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
<mailto:RVer273sb@aol.com>
Listers,
Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left
elect ign
and installed a mag. Still does it.
This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a
full
power climb sustained for several minutes.
I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
or fuel pressure.????
Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
Thank you,
Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Tony Marshall wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Tony Marshall" <tony@lambros.com>
>
>When you say 'hic-up' what do you mean? A slight pause in acceleration? A
>misfire of a couple of cylinders? I'm just not sure what you mean.....and
>the reason I ask is that my 0360, at low rpms, after deceleration (like
>adding throttle in base to final), with or without boost pump, pauses
>instantaneously, but always catches. I would like to get rid of that, too,
>but am not sure what causes it.
>
Two things: either your carb doesn't have an accelerator pump ..... or
if it does, the seal is probably shot. What happens is that as you open
the throttle, the mixture leans out temporarily and it stumbles. If the
throttle was opened slower, that would probably go away. The other
thing that can happen .... but not on a properly adjusted carb ..... is
that it loads up a little in the low power setting and when the throttle
is opened the additional air sucks up the additional fuel and the
mixture then goes rich. This can be avoided by setting the idle mixture
properly .... look for a rise in RPM just prior to shutdown as you
slowly ... really slowly pull the mixture back.
Linn
do not archive
> Otherwise the engine performs flawlessly.
>
>Tony Marshall
>RV6
>Polson MT
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: engine hic-up
>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant@chuckdirect.com>
>>
>>I'll bet carb.
>>Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>Listers,
>>>>> Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
>>>>> Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
>>>>> I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
>>>>>elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left
>>>>>elect
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>ign
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and installed a mag. Still does it.
>>>>> This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
>>>>> Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
>>>>>Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
>>>>>do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a
>>>>>full
>>>>>power climb sustained for several minutes.
>>>>> I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
>>>>> Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
>>>>>The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
>>>>>more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
>>>>>or fuel pressure.????
>>>>> Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
>>>>>Thank you,
>>>>>Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 23
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--> RV-List message posted by: "James E. Clark" <james@nextupventures.com>
Trying one more time. Email bounced before ...
Stewart,
What electronic ignition are you using?
I went through a series of "vibrations" during the test period of our RV6
- O-320 (160 HP)
- Fixed pitch, Ed Sterba Wood Prop
- Carbureted
- Jeff Ross (ElectroAir) EI + 1 magneto
One of them was what I described as a "pop" on climb out.
(A bit disconcerting to say the least)
In the end, the problem was traced to a plug wire from the EI. Jeff did a
wonderful (and patient) job of explaining why if this wire was not done
correctly as described, that this *could* happen under max load on the
cylinders. As I recall, there was a condition where the spark would arc to
the engine block or something of that nature. Went back and re-did the
connection and no more such problems. It was 400 hours ago so I forget all
the details.
This is just another thing to consider **IF** you are using the ElectroAir
EI.
James
| -----Original Message-----
| From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
| server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of RVer273sb@aol.com
| Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 6:00 PM
| To: rv-list@matronics.com
| Subject: RV-List: engine hic-up
|
| --> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
|
| Listers,
| Been experiencing what I call a hic-up in my 0-320 lately.
| Seems like one cylinder one time to me.
| I changed all spark plugs and it still persists. Removed the right
| elect/ ign ang installed a magneto, still did it. Pulled the left elect
| ign
| and installed a mag. Still does it.
| This means different plugs, leads and ign sources?
| Sticky valves? Pulled all 4 cylinders and had them overhauled.
| Hic up is still there. Never know when it will do it and it might not
| do it for an hour or so. I can usually get it to hic-up by doing a full
| power climb sustained for several minutes.
| I am running AFP fuel injection and am back to the dual elect ign.
| Tried two sets of the auto plugs last weekend. No help.
| The hic-up is never more than one or two hits and seems to never be
| more than one or two cylinders. No noticeable change in cht or egt
| or fuel pressure.????
| Any ideas out there? This is driving me crazy to say the least.
| Thank you,
| Stewart RV-4 in Colorado
|
Message 24
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|
| Subject: | torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Since I am hanging the engine mount and carefully toquing bolts, it
occurred to me that I should have my old torque wrench calibrated. (I
have the "click" type torque wrench that you set by turning the
handle.) Calibration cost $30. The thing was fairly accurate at the
high end (200in-lb) but had 3 or 4 in-lb error at the low end, which is
a lot percentage-wise. The guy was able to adjust it to +- a fraction
of a in-lb over it's whole range. I gather A&P's have to get theirs
calibrated regularly and have the certificate to prove it to the FAA.
Just thought I'd mention it since many may not have thought about it. A
few in-lbs isn't going to make your plane fall out of the sky, but I am
glad I did it.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: engine hic-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: RVer273sb@aol.com
James,
Am running the dual E-mag system. Have also
put the mags back on with the mag harness ect.
Thanks for the feedback.
Stewart
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
Where did you get it calibrated?
John Furey
RV6A
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Weighty Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Greetings everyone,
Does anyone know what the difference in weight would be between the following two
options:
A: 200hp / IO-360 Angle Valve with a Craig Catto F.P.Prop
B: 180hp / O-360 Parallel Valve with a Hartzell C.S.Propeller
I know that there is a significant weight increase between the 200hp versus the
180hp Engine.
I also know that a Craig Catto FP Prop is much lighter than a complete Hartzell
CS Setup: Propeller, Governor, Oil Line, Linkage,etc.
Questions:
Which of the two combinations would be the lighter version (or perhaps they are
equal in weight?), and how would a 200hp/FP compare to the 180hp/CS in climb
and cruise?
Thanks,
Konrad
Message 28
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com
Dean, I would appreciate a copy of your wig wag info.
Thanks,
Doug Preston
RV7A
N731RV
BHM
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Weighty Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Using a fixed pitch prop on the 200hp engine is like having burned filet
mignon... (imho) Why bother with the extra horsepower if you're not gonna
harness it in the climb (with a C/S prop)?
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Weighty Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
> Greetings everyone,
> Does anyone know what the difference in weight would be between the
following two options:
>
> A: 200hp / IO-360 Angle Valve with a Craig Catto F.P.Prop
> B: 180hp / O-360 Parallel Valve with a Hartzell C.S.Propeller
>
> I know that there is a significant weight increase between the 200hp
versus the 180hp Engine.
> I also know that a Craig Catto FP Prop is much lighter than a complete
Hartzell CS Setup: Propeller, Governor, Oil Line, Linkage,etc.
>
> Questions:
> Which of the two combinations would be the lighter version (or perhaps
they are equal in weight?), and how would a 200hp/FP compare to the 180hp/CS
in climb and cruise?
>
> Thanks,
> Konrad
>
>
Message 30
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: smoothweasel@juno.com
Hey Guys i posted earlier about a Narco Radio that I have to sell.
It is still available and I have a few items to add.
Wultrad turn coordinate Model TC-04b like new. $200
2001 Apollo panel mount GPS with antenna and tray. make offer
In a few days I will put this stuff on ebay so let me know if ya want
any of it.
thanks Weasel
do not archive
Message 31
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|
| Subject: | Re: torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
How about clamping it in a vice, handle horizontal, and hanging a known
weight a measured distance out on the handle.
For example 2 lbs 12 inches from the vice should make it click at 24
inch-pounds setting but not at 25 in-lbs.
Or use a fish scale to pull it (at 90 degrees to the handle), read the
scale when it clicks.
You'll only be using 2 or 3 settings anyway, so it should be easy to
calibrate.
Finn
John Furey wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
>Where did you get it calibrated?
>
>John Furey
>RV6A
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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|
| Subject: | Re: torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
John:
I looked in the yellow pages under calibration. Tucson is big
enough now to have a couple of calibration outfits. They do all sorts
of instruments, electronic devices, even optical calibrations.
John Furey wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
>Where did you get it calibrated?
>
>John Furey
>RV6A
>
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Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Finn:
I think that actually works if you do it carefully. But, the pros
have some experience and equipment that makes it worth it, I think.
I have used a fish scale on an open end wrench for tightening nuts
in those hard to get at places where I couldn't get the big torque
wrench in.
--
Tom S.
Finn Lassen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen@verizon.net>
>
>How about clamping it in a vice, handle horizontal, and hanging a known
>weight a measured distance out on the handle.
>For example 2 lbs 12 inches from the vice should make it click at 24
>inch-pounds setting but not at 25 in-lbs.
>
>Or use a fish scale to pull it (at 90 degrees to the handle), read the
>scale when it clicks.
>
>You'll only be using 2 or 3 settings anyway, so it should be easy to
>calibrate.
>
>Finn
>
>John Furey wrote:
>
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: castle nut - bolt line-up |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
Perhaps I mis-read the original question, I thought he was referring to the
bolts that attach the engine mount to the firewall not the engine to the
mount.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: castle nut - bolt line-up
> --> RV-List message posted by: <gmcjetpilot@yahoo.com>
>
>
>>From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp@earthlink.net>
>>What about filling or grinding off a small portion of the mount tube
>>itself to make it slightly shorter?
>
> I don't think that is a great idea. The design of the spacer compresses
> the mount to predetermined height the engineers calculated was required.
>
> Repeatedly installing the nut and removing it several times to get the
> perfect torque will change the threads each time. You are also wearing the
> finish off. I would be more worried about repeated on and offs damaging
> the bolt than perfect torque. Also each time you install it the change in
> the threads will affect how much preload you get for an indicated torque.
>
> Also torquing the nut down should be done in one motion. Stopping and
> starting is not going to give consistent results. One approach would be
> torque to the average torque. Then make a SMALL adjustment visually to
> align the cotter pin hole if needed. Small means less than 1/24th of a
> turn. If the nut is totally blocking the hole you can use a (0.003)
> thicker or thinner washer. Get a stack of the little thin shim washers to
> choose from, you will find the washers vary by several thousands, or as
> Dave (dreel@cox.net) suggested, mod the washer and refinish it. I have
> known a few to "smack" washers to flatten them. (.0035) is worth about
> 1/12th a turn on a AN6 2/8"-24. You will have the most perfectly torqued
> engine mounts around ;-) Good luck.
>
> Cheers G. (RV-4, RV-7 lots of pieces)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Weighty Question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
Dear Dan,
Very good point, but how much time am I going to spend climbing vs. cruising?
If weight would be of a concern to you, would you then go 180hp/Hartzell CS, ...or
take the other option, a 200hp/FP setup?
(Anyone know the weight difference anyway between these two setups, just curious?)
So, please pick one of the two options, and tell me why you think one would be
better then the other?
Thanks,
Konrad
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Checkoway
To: rv-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Weighty Question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
Using a fixed pitch prop on the 200hp engine is like having burned filet
mignon... (imho) Why bother with the extra horsepower if you're not gonna
harness it in the climb (with a C/S prop)?
do not archive
)_( Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Weighty Question
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" <klwerner@comcast.net>
>
> Greetings everyone,
> Does anyone know what the difference in weight would be between the
following two options:
>
> A: 200hp / IO-360 Angle Valve with a Craig Catto F.P.Prop
> B: 180hp / O-360 Parallel Valve with a Hartzell C.S.Propeller
>
> I know that there is a significant weight increase between the 200hp
versus the 180hp Engine.
> I also know that a Craig Catto FP Prop is much lighter than a complete
Hartzell CS Setup: Propeller, Governor, Oil Line, Linkage,etc.
>
> Questions:
> Which of the two combinations would be the lighter version (or perhaps
they are equal in weight?), and how would a 200hp/FP compare to the 180hp/CS
in climb and cruise?
>
> Thanks,
> Konrad
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | torque wrench calibration |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen@rv7.us>
I actually did the measured weight 12 inches out thing with my new torque
wrench and it came out so close on the first try that I didn't give it any
more thought...
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of sarg314
Subject: Re: RV-List: torque wrench calibration
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
John:
I looked in the yellow pages under calibration. Tucson is big
enough now to have a couple of calibration outfits. They do all sorts
of instruments, electronic devices, even optical calibrations.
John Furey wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" <john@fureychrysler.com>
>
>Where did you get it calibrated?
>
>John Furey
>RV6A
>
>
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