Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:43 AM - Re: Six versus Seven Safety (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
2. 05:46 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
3. 06:17 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson)
4. 06:24 AM - RV9A (Randy)
5. 06:32 AM - Nose Gear Bolt Torque... (Alfred Klewin)
6. 06:55 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (sarg314)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Denis Walsh)
8. 08:07 AM - Re: Six versus Seven Safety (Jeff Dowling)
9. 08:13 AM - Re: Proseal on all ribs or not (Richard Crosley)
10. 08:13 AM - Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment (Jeff Dowling)
11. 08:18 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson)
12. 08:18 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Bobby Hester)
13. 10:36 AM - Fw: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Jerry Grimmonpre)
14. 10:36 AM - Re: Nose Gear Bolt Torque... (Dan Krueger)
15. 10:48 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Rick Galati)
16. 11:07 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson)
17. 12:24 PM - 327/Dynon question (Dana Overall)
18. 12:55 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Todd Bartrim)
19. 12:56 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (cgalley)
20. 01:29 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Don Mack)
21. 01:29 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Bob C.)
22. 01:29 PM - engine hanging problem (sarg314)
23. 01:49 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Gary Zilik)
24. 01:58 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (John D. Heath)
25. 02:21 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Hopperdhh@aol.com)
26. 02:34 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson)
27. 03:38 PM - Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment (HCRV6@aol.com)
28. 04:31 PM - Re: engine hanging problem (sarg314)
29. 04:38 PM - Fw: [LML] Brain Lock (Jerry Grimmonpre)
30. 04:56 PM - For Sale: Eggenfellner Engine Package (Carlrayw@aol.com)
31. 05:47 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Mark Grieve)
32. 07:49 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (John D. Heath)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Six versus Seven Safety |
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
7 uses the 8's wing spar design & thicker wing skins in some area. It's in the
archives and old RVator has a story written by Van on this. At first some builders
thought the "newer" style spar was weaker than the old 6 style in how it
secured to the fuse and Van had to straighten them out.
lucky
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point
>
> >
> >
> >It would be interesting to know why the 7 has a higher aerobatic gross
> >than the 6. Any ideas anyone?
> >
> >
> There was some discussion about this when the 7 first hit the shelves.
> IIRC part of the equation was that the 1375 weight of the -6 was a very
> conservative number which had a large "fudge factor" for differences in
> constsruction of different planes. With the -7 and the matched hole
> kits, it was determined that the fudge factor did not have to be as
> large, and this was one of the factors in the higher aerobatic gross
> weight of the -7.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 "Classic"
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
>
>
7 uses the 8's wing spar design thicker wing skins in some area. It's in the archives
and old RVator has a story written by Van on this. At first some builders
thought the "newer" style spar was weaker than the old 6 style in how it secured
to the fuse and Van had to straighten them out.
lucky
do not archive
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point <JPOINT@MINDSPRING.COM>
It would be interesting to know why the 7 has a higher aerobatic gross
than the 6. Any ideas anyone?
There was some discussion about this when the 7 first hit the shelves.
IIRC part of the equation was that the 1375 weight of the -6 was a very
conservative number which had a large "fudge factor" for differences in
constsruction of different planes. With the -7 and the matched hole
kits, it was determined that the fudge factor did not have to be as
large, and this was one of the factors in the higher aerobatic gross
weight of the -7.
Jeff Point
RV-6 "Classic"
Milwaukee WI
&g
t;
atronics.com/photoshare
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 2/5/05 11:02:38 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
sarg314@comcast.net writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to the engine
mount. I had previously made a hole in the firewall (as per plans) so
allow access for a socket wrench to tighten this bolt. I also made a
plate to cover the hole. Installing the nose gear for real tonight (I
hang the engine tomorrow) I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually
interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my
cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place.
Is this typical?
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine.
Tom,
I had the same problem with my 7A. I put the bolt in upside down and put
the nut on the top side. I know that people may say that is wrong, but faced
with the options, that seemed to be a viable solution.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A N766DH
Message 3
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| Subject: | RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to
> the engine
> mount. I had previously made a hole in the firewall (as per
> plans) so
> allow access for a socket wrench to tighten this bolt. I also made a
> plate to cover the hole. Installing the nose gear for real
> tonight (I
> hang the engine tomorrow) I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually
> interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my
> cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place.
>
> Is this typical?
>
> Only solution I can think of is to mount a 1/16" or 1/8" plate with a
> hole in it on the cabin side of the firewall to effectively move the
> cabin side of the firewall aft to allow room for the bolt.
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine.
Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under the
bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise in the
firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started onto the
bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 569 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 4
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Randy" <rer51@lincsat.com>
I have a -9A. I would like to put it on floats. Czech says it should have T/D
gear config. Other than engine mount, skin cutouts and tail wheel, are there
any additional significant changes. Randy
Message 5
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| Subject: | Nose Gear Bolt Torque... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin <rv6aokc@yahoo.com>
Folks,
Anyone have the nose gear bolt (one holding the tire on) torque specs handy?
Not much in the archives and I seem to have misplaced mine!!!
Thanks,
Kurt in OKC
Do Not Archive
---------------------------------
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
Alex:
Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The
AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt
is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the
weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a good
practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option,
though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the interference,
but does not completely eliminate it.
Alex Peterson wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>>
>>There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to
>>the engine
>>
>>
>>I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually
>>interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my
>>cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place.
>>--
>>Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine.
>>
>>
>
>Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under the
>bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise in the
>firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started onto the
>bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things.
>
>Alex Peterson
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
Two (in) elegant solutions I have seen are to either whack the firewall
with a ball pein hammer to get a few millimeter dimple, or to carefully
grind off a little on the end of the bolt. A more elegant solution is
to cut a hole in the firewall, fabircate a cover (I heard this is in
the plans now?). If you already have a cover plate, whack it.
Good luck. Don't underestimate the iimportance of this rascal. It
needs to be installed properly and well torqued to sustain big twisting
loads, You will want to be able to inspect, and remove it with minimum
hassle.
I will throw in a highly opinionated comment: I see occasionally some
frustration expressed over Van's nose gear design. As a fellow who has
done two or three thousand landings on his, I say it is a marvelous
design. Dirt simple, functional, and easy to maintain. The airplane
steers like a dream, and is simple to take off and land. Two moving
parts, the wheel and the castering fork. One attach point to the
plane. Keep it torqued, adjusted, and lubricated, and it is usually
trouble free.
Like the rest of the plane, it is intolerant of poor pilot technique.
I have been around long enough to live through a service bulletin which
encouraged all to switch to an improved nose leg (strut). During that
process it became obvious that Van's supplier Harmon, Lange is an
engineering genius who produces parts to close tolerances. Our nose
leg may be the best tested piece of equipment on the plane. So I
believe in treating it right.
End of opinion. Do not archive.
Denis
On Feb 6, 2005, at 7:52 AM, sarg314 wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Alex:
> Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The
> AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt
> is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the
> weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a
> good
> practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option,
> though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the
> interference,
> but does not completely eliminate it.
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
>> <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>>>
>>> There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to
>>> the engine
>>>
>>>
>>> I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually
>>> interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my
>>> cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place.
>>> --
>>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under
>> the
>> bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise
>> in the
>> firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started
>> onto the
>> bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things.
>>
>> Alex Peterson
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Six versus Seven Safety |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
IMHO, you have to put the 6 and 7 in the same category as far as safety.
When was the last incident a 6 had that would have been prevented in a 7? I
think it comes down to the pilot with such similar airframes. There are
advantages to the 7 I think, but not safety.
do not archive
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
160 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Six versus Seven Safety
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> The 7 has a bigger rudder. The 7 has more rudder authority in a spin.
> If I could refit my 6A with a 7 rudder, I would, but I'd have to change
> the Vert. Stabilizer too.
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Proseal on all ribs or not |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley@adelphia.net>
The bottom line question is "Do you want to Fly or Build". There are a lot of
things you can do that won't hurt anything but also don't help much either. Buildings
is fun but flying is really the point. Go ahead and start prosealing
all the rivets. My bet is you'll get tired of that real quick. If the reason
is to fill the rivet circles so the paint flows, squeegee in some primer with
a credit card prior to spray priming. If you are really worried about corrosion
dip the rivets in primer before you rivet. You'll get tired of doing that
too, but it won't be as big a mess. I guess what I am saying is the building
always seems to drag out longer than you think it should anyway, if it were
me.....I won't add to it that much. There is a reason folks say "Keep pounding
those Rivets" There really are a lot of them and by the time you finish you're
ready to.
Have fun......
Rich Crosley
RV-8, N948RC, Flying real soon.
Palmdale, CA
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
I used Bob's fairings on my 6a and just drilled them into the cockpit and
installed nutplates. No problem. Now finishing it.........
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
160 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell@telus.net>
>
> My RV6-A is on the wheels in my garage. Bob's http://www.fairings-etc.com
> wheel pant intersection fairings are fitted and laminated onto the Van's
> wheel pants. Bob's parts dropped in place and it took me quite a lot of
> effort to fit, laminate and finish to match the quality of his
> craftsmanship. Thanks Bob!
>
> Now I am looking for some ideas and hopefully some pictures as to
> attachment
> of the upper leg intersection fairing to the fuselage.
> I am looking for suggestions re- attachment points, hardware suggestions:
> Rivnuts Platenuts, Tinnermans, Springs and mounting point locations etc.
> I have been mulling this over for a while and have yet to settle them in
> place.
>
> If you have pictures I'd sure like to see them.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Tom, ours must be a little different. I have one or two thick washers under
the head (on the top), and I still have no threads in the mount. The bolt,
however, can only barely be peeking through when I start the nut on the
bottom.
Alex
> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Alex:
> Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The
> AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of
> the bolt
> is just the right length. It I put washers under the head,
> some of the
> weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is
> not a good
> practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option,
> though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the
> interference,
> but does not completely eliminate it.
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester <bhester@hopkinsville.net>
sarg314 wrote:
> <>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
> Alex:
> Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The
> AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt
> is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the
> weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a good
> practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option,
> though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the interference,
> but does not completely eliminate it.
>
>
I beleive it shows this bolt installed upside down on one of the
drawings, don't have them here. That is how mine is installed. (RV7A) If
you install it upside down and file the edge of the bolt head were it
interfers, would that not work? On the RV7 plans they show a round plug
snap in cover for this hole. I think you might be able to use one of
those installed from the inside to give you the extra room you need.
Proseal over the engine side.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
Message 13
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| Subject: | RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
Denis or anyone with the experience ...
Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any builder or group, to
make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a fiberlock nut or
all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach to staking the
top of the nose gear?
It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking hole started to
enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really good way to
tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I witnessed an
RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution carried out was to
redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if, maybe, a tapered
bolt would solve this problem for many more hours.
Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one, anyone?
Jerry Grimmonpre
7A
> --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh@comcast.net>
> I have been around long enough to live through a service bulletin which
> encouraged all to switch to an improved nose leg (strut). During that
> process it became obvious that Van's supplier Harmon, Lange is an
> engineering genius who produces parts to close tolerances. Our nose
> leg may be the best tested piece of equipment on the plane. So I
> believe in treating it right.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Bolt Torque... |
--> RV-List message posted by: Dan Krueger <pndkrueg@mchsi.com>
>
>
> Anyone have the nose gear bolt (one holding the tire on) torque
> specs handy?
>
> 7-10 ft lbs
Dan Krueger
RV6A Flying
Message 15
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| Subject: | RE: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
I guess everybody can have a different situation to deal with. In mine, when the
AN5-20A bolt was inserted, the grip length was exactly right but the threads
on the bottom side of the bolt touched the firewall, displacing it slightly.
Rather than drill a big hole in the stainless just to be covered with a cap as
called out in the plans, I merely shaved a little material off the threads of
the bolt at an angle so that when the bolt was reinserted, it just barely clears
the firewall. With a limited area MS21042 self-locking nut in place, ample
thread protrusion remains.
Rick Galati RV-6A finished "not yet flying"
> Alex:
> Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The
> AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of
> the bolt > is just the right length. It I put washers under the head,
> some of the > weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is
> not a good > practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option,
> though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the
> interference, > but does not completely eliminate it.
Message 16
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| Subject: | RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>
> Denis or anyone with the experience ...
> Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any
> builder or group, to
> make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a
> fiberlock nut or
> all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach
> to staking the
> top of the nose gear?
>
> It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking
> hole started to
> enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really
> good way to
> tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I
> witnessed an
> RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution
> carried out was to
> redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if,
> maybe, a tapered
> bolt would solve this problem for many more hours.
> Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one,
> anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A
Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years ago
about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational experience,
I'll add a little more.
I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using the
standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I
pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose gear
clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced it
with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still it
was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to
remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was
absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been
beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan to
replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in
the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help.
What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted. The
bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement at
that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this
situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could
tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't.
What say others?
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 569 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 17
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| Subject: | 327/Dynon question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at
that:-)
My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro
setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any
clues as to why this is showing 600'?
When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so
I know it is receiving something.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 18
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| Subject: | 327/Dynon question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
Hi Dana;
I should probably leave this to the more knowledgeable, but....
I believe that the Dynon (or any encoder) reports altitude to the X-ponder
uncompensated for barometric pressure and the x-ponder in turn reports this
uncompensated altitude. This ensures that ATC sees consistent altitudes from
all aircraft in the area, regardless of any individual aircraft's altimeter
setting. ATC applies the current correction setting themselves.
At least that is what I believe.... maybe someone can confirm this?
Todd Bartrim
RV9Endurance
13B Turbo Rotary
C-FSTB
"The world will always have a place for those that bring hard
work and determination to the things they do."
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: 327/Dynon question
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at
that:-)
My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro
setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any
clues as to why this is showing 600'?
When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so
I know it is receiving something.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
do not archive
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Would the "red" Loctite be a good fix? It is supposed to make a "press fit"
with up to 0.010 clearances.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
<alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>
>
> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
> >
> > Denis or anyone with the experience ...
> > Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any
> > builder or group, to
> > make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a
> > fiberlock nut or
> > all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach
> > to staking the
> > top of the nose gear?
> >
> > It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking
> > hole started to
> > enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really
> > good way to
> > tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I
> > witnessed an
> > RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution
> > carried out was to
> > redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if,
> > maybe, a tapered
> > bolt would solve this problem for many more hours.
> > Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one,
> > anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A
>
> Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years
ago
> about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational
experience,
> I'll add a little more.
>
> I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using
the
> standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I
> pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose gear
> clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced
it
> with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still
it
> was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to
> remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was
> absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been
> beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan
to
> replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in
> the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help.
>
> What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted. The
> bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement
at
> that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this
> situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could
> tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't.
>
> What say others?
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A 569 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: 327/Dynon question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Don Mack" <don@dmack.net>
That's correct. The dynon reports pressure alt. The actual alt is calculated
by the FAA computers when being display on their screens.
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire@telus.net>
>
> Hi Dana;
> I should probably leave this to the more knowledgeable, but....
> I believe that the Dynon (or any encoder) reports altitude to the X-ponder
> uncompensated for barometric pressure and the x-ponder in turn reports
> this
> uncompensated altitude. This ensures that ATC sees consistent altitudes
> from
> all aircraft in the area, regardless of any individual aircraft's
> altimeter
> setting. ATC applies the current correction setting themselves.
>
> At least that is what I believe.... maybe someone can confirm this?
>
> Todd Bartrim
>
> RV9Endurance
> OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at
> that:-)
>
> My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro
> setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any
> clues as to why this is showing 600'?
>
> When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank
> so
> I know it is receiving something.
>
>
> Dana Overall
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: 327/Dynon question |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob@gmail.com>
Dana,
I believe the data going to the xponder is always based on 29.92
in/hg. and would ignore your altimeter setting? The FAA then adjusts
for current altimeter setting from the 29.92 . . . that's so you can
use a "blind encoder".
Regards,
Bob
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:20:54 -0500, Dana Overall <bo124rs@hotmail.com> wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
> OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at
> that:-)
>
> My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro
> setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any
> clues as to why this is showing 600'?
>
> When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so
> I know it is receiving something.
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY i39
> RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
> Finish kit
> 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
> http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | engine hanging problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
I tried hanging the engine (IO-360-B2B) on my 6A and was surprised to
find that normal sockets won't fit on the bolt head or nut. I find
interference on each end of the bolt. The torque wrench with a 5/8
socket hits the engine mount tube and won't go over the bolt head. A
socket can't be manuvered onto the nut end beacuse of obstructions on
the engine - well the top of the engine anyway. (The lower bolts look
like they might have more clearance. ) The nut is recessed into the
engine enough that it is nearly impossible to get an open end wrench on
it, never mind a socket. I got the first bolt screwed on part way
using a closed end wrench on the bolt head.
It *might* be possible if I cut the socket about 1/4" shorter, but in
all I have read about hanging an engine, I haven't heard any mention of
these problems. Is this normal? How do I get my Sears toque wrench to
work here?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine
Message 23
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|
| Subject: | Re: 327/Dynon question |
--> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik <zilik@direcpc.com>
Dana, The gray code coming from the dynon is based on an altimiter
setting of 29.92 regardless of what you set the Kollsman window to. All
encoders are set up this way.
Gary
Dana Overall wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs@hotmail.com>
>
>OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at
>that:-)
>
>My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro
>setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any
>clues as to why this is showing 600'?
>
>When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so
>I know it is receiving something.
>
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY i39
>RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
>Finish kit
>13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg
>do not archive
>
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
Check this out, http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/660-EN.pdf . I think this
should be considered even for new assembly.
The close tolerance bolt is definitely an upgrade.
John
D. Heath
Point
Blank, TX
~75
miles N. of Houston
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt
> --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" <cgalley@qcbc.org>
>
> Would the "red" Loctite be a good fix? It is supposed to make a "press
> fit"
> with up to 0.010 clearances.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt
>
>
>> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson"
> <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
>>
>>
>> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
>> >
>> > Denis or anyone with the experience ...
>> > Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any
>> > builder or group, to
>> > make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a
>> > fiberlock nut or
>> > all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach
>> > to staking the
>> > top of the nose gear?
>> >
>> > It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking
>> > hole started to
>> > enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really
>> > good way to
>> > tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I
>> > witnessed an
>> > RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution
>> > carried out was to
>> > redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if,
>> > maybe, a tapered
>> > bolt would solve this problem for many more hours.
>> > Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one,
>> > anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A
>>
>> Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years
> ago
>> about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational
> experience,
>> I'll add a little more.
>>
>> I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using
> the
>> standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I
>> pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose
>> gear
>> clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced
> it
>> with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still
> it
>> was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to
>> remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was
>> absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been
>> beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan
> to
>> replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in
>> the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help.
>>
>> What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted.
>> The
>> bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement
> at
>> that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this
>> situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could
>> tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't.
>>
>> What say others?
>>
>> Alex Peterson
>> RV6-A 569 hours
>> Maple Grove, MN
>>
>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com
In a message dated 2/6/05 11:20:14 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
bhester@hopkinsville.net writes:
I beleive it shows this bolt installed upside down on one of the
drawings, don't have them here. That is how mine is installed. (RV7A) If
you install it upside down and file the edge of the bolt head were it
interfers, would that not work? On the RV7 plans they show a round plug
snap in cover for this hole. I think you might be able to use one of
those installed from the inside to give you the extra room you need.
Proseal over the engine side.
Tom,
This is exactly what I ended up doing. Bolt upside down and plug inserted
from inside the plane. Not pretty, but who's gonna look?
Also, please see my earlier post (attached below) for an undersize drill for
getting a tight fit on these gear leg bolts.
Regards,
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying for the first time since before Christmas -- In fact I had
been getting a little depressed lately, but I feel like a new man now!!! The
-7A is a wonderful ship. You should have seen those 200 horses digging it out
of that half-muddy/half-snow-covered field!)
Listers,
My thought is that if the hole is close to begin with, then it is not as
likely to wallow out. You should have to almost drive the bolt in to the gear
leg and bracket (with a little LPS-3 on it).
I measured the diameter of the kit supplied bolts with a micrometer, then
looked through all my assortment of bits hoping to find one that was about .002
inch under 5/16 inch for a good match.
I found almost all of my 5/16 high speed steel bits were very close to the
same size. However, I discovered, almost by accident, that all of the drill
bits were tapered -- getting progressively smaller as you went away from the
cutting end of the bit. I was able to get the bit about .002 inch undersized
by cutting it in two at about half of its original length with a grinder.
You can then re-sharpen the bit and it will still be long enough to drill
through the gear leg and mount. You can re-sharpen hss bits much more
successfully than the titanium bits that we get from Avery.
Of course, you should have already drilled the hole about 19/64 inch (1/64
under 5/16) before you drill this finish hole. This is a poor man's
substitute for a reamer, I guess. Reamers are hard to come by out here in the
sticks!
It worked great for me. YMMV.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since last July)
Message 26
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| Subject: | RV-6A nose gear top bolt |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson@earthlink.net>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
>
> Check this out, http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/660-EN.pdf .
> I think this
> should be considered even for new assembly.
> The close tolerance bolt is definitely an upgrade.
John and Cy,
Interesting idea, but the statement (in the above link) about disassembly
requiring heating the part to 250C is a little worrisome... that is 482F.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 569 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment |
--> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com
In a message dated 2/5/05 5:09:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, jjewell@telus.net
writes:
<< Now I am looking for some ideas and hopefully some pictures as to
attachment
of the upper leg intersection fairing to the fuselage. >>
Jim: I just finished installing the upper leg intersection fairings from
//fairings etc. I decided to use #6 flush screws and nut plates. I laminated
two strips of glass about 1 inch wide around the top of Bob's fairings and
blended it with micro to provide additional thickness for the countersunk screw
heads/tinnerman washers. I used three screws into the bottom cowl and two into
the fuselage bottom skin. In the cowl there is one at the leading edge of
the fairing and one on each side about 1 1/4 inch from the aft edge of the cowl.
In the bottom skin there is one screw just forward of the split line in the
fairing and one at the bottom aft end. I also installed a nutplate in the
fairing where Bob just provides for a sheet metal screw to hold the split line
together. The fairing is very solid and the installation looks good. I did
have to build up the inside of the fairing at the leading edge with micro to get
a snug fit to my bottom cowl but I suspect that will vary from plane to plane.
Sorry, no pics, but I hope this helps.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying!
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: engine hanging problem |
--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
I solved most of my problems. I got a closed end wrench and ground a
bit of it away to get it to fit on the nuts. Then I remembered I had
some crow-foot wrenches and used one of those on the torque wrench (with
appropriate adjustment to torque setting).
Question: How much torque should I add for the fact that I'm torquing
the bolt head instaed of the nut? I'm guessing a couple foot-pounds. I
didn't try to measure it.
The engine is on now, except that 3 of the 4 bolts are badly lined up
for cotter pin insertion. Torquing up to the max doesn't seem to move it
much. If they were lined up it will be very hard to get the cotter pin
safetied properly - it's a tight spot. I guess I'll deal with that
tomorrow.
sarg314 wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 <sarg314@comcast.net>
>
>I tried hanging the engine (IO-360-B2B) on my 6A and was surprised to
>find that normal sockets won't fit on the bolt head or nut. I find
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Fw: [LML] Brain Lock |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry@mc.net>
For the RV List with posting permission from the author ... Brent Regan, creator
of Chelton glass system.
Jerry Grimmonpre
----- Original Message -----
From: Brent Regan
Subject: [LML] Brain Lock
As is the case with many physiological functions being autonomic (circulatory,
digestive, metabolism and most of respiratory), a majority of cognitive functions
are also "automatic" and are performed outside the control of the conscious
mind. In many cases this background processing is tasked with integrating various
sensory inputs into a comprehensive sense of reality. Providing unnatural
or unexpected inputs can confuse these processes. As pilots, a common experience
with this phenomenon is the spatial disorientation experienced during unusual
attitude training. The disorientation is the product of conflicting sensory
inputs from the inner ear (balance), propriosensic (seat of the pants) and
vision (instruments). Vision usually dominates, and would in this case, except
that the steam gauges and needles require additional processing that degrades
the "believability" of the visual information so the incorrect signals dominate.
Fast forward to the modern age of high fidelity glass. The synthetic images displayed
require less processing and are therefore more believable to the autonomic
cognitive systems. It is easy and natural to for your brain to "lock" onto
the image as if it were reality and ignore conflicting information. This makes
for safer IFR flight as it requires less brain processing bandwidth, leaving
more for other flight tasks (communicating, navigating, monitoring, etc.)
The problem occurs when the Glass is wrong. Even when the image on the screen
does NOT represent reality then there is still an overwhelming visual input. Imagine
that you were flying on instruments in VFR conditions. Your scan was on
the gauges but your peripheral vision allowed you to see outside. Now imagine
what would happen if the view outside started to tumble while the gauges and
your butt are telling you that you are still in level flight. Since the outside
view is more compelling, the natural reaction would be to ignore the needles
and attempt to follow the compelling visual picture. Now imagine the same scenario
except that you are in IFR conditions and "compelling" visual image is
from your high fidelity glass cockpit.
I can tell you from personal experience (development flight tests) that when the
glass starts to roll, you really want to roll with it and even when you have
identified the that there is a problem and are using the standby gauges the
"wrong" picture in your peripheral vision continues to be a distraction. My strong
advice is that if the glass is in doubt, turn it off (power, dimming or cover
it) and go to your standby gauges.
I was motivated to write this after reading the following account:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id20050131X00119&key1
There is no way to determine if a glass failure induced this accident and I would
not want to speculate as to the cause. I was reminded by this account of the
disorientation I experienced when the power supply in a new AHRS I was testing
went TU and induced a 30 degree per second roll on the display. Reverting the
PFD to Moving Map immediately "fixed" my disorientation as I was then able
to use the standby attitude indicator without the conflicting rolling image on
the PFD. It was NOT enough to just "know" the glass was wrong and ignore it
as my autonomic brain wanted to lock onto the more compelling image.
If you have incorrect information displayed, cover it or remove it from view. Ignoring
it doesn't work.
Regards
Brent Regan
Message 30
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| Subject: | For Sale: Eggenfellner Engine Package |
--> RV-List message posted by: Carlrayw@aol.com
I have one of the earlier 2002 engine packages which I would like to sell. I
bought it for an rv9 but I know it will fit some other rvs.
engine package
heater package
EIS monitor no fuel sensors
fuel valve
Oeitiker kit
1 metal tank and 2 gallons of antifreeze
engine manual
Will sell for $15,500.00 about what I have invested with no markup
email me if interested at _carlrayw@aol.com_ (mailto:carlrayw@aol.com)
It has been stored in a heated garage and is still in the crate. I have used
a wrench to turn it over occasionally so I know it is still ok. Was going to
start it up but decided it would be better not to unless I don't sell it,
then I will have to run it occasionally till I sell it.
Reason for selling is that I don't think I will get to finish and fly my kit
for a lot more years if ever so rather than have it sit for much longer I
would like to see someone get use of it. A hard decision to make but something
I
must do. I would like to have someone pick it up or I could deliver it for a
shipping charge. I live in Michigan at Traverse City.
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Confused About Torque Specifications |
--> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
Excellent post John! Another point about connecting rod bolts is that
some are properly torqued when they have reached a specified length.
Cranking them down actually stretches them a few thousandths. I believe
that Lycoming 540s are done this way, not that a lot of single digit RVs
are using this engine. My suggestion is to follow the standard torque
tables for standard hardware and the rebuild manual for engine bolts.
MG
Do not archive
John D. Heath wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
>
>No body seems to want to touch this so I'll give it what amounts to my 2
>cents worth.
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Confused About Torque Specifications |
--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
Mark ,
I see that technoligy moving into General Aviation fast. The automotive
after market has been into it for years.
It has built in safety factors. That same rod bolt takes a given amount of
turn (or torque, depending on the tightening
methode used) to go from .001" to .008" strech. If it takes less than that,
you know you have a problem, befor you go any further. Torque wrenches as we
know them are also becoming a thing of the past. now there are bolts that
have a second head that twist off on instalation when you arrive at the
proper torque. New design head bolts are preliminarly torque using a socket
that slips at a predetermined value and then given 90* angle turn, three
times. I can see an advantage to that methode on case through bolts.
Thanks the comments
John D.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Grieve" <mark@macomb.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications
> --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve <mark@macomb.com>
>
> Excellent post John! Another point about connecting rod bolts is that
> some are properly torqued when they have reached a specified length.
> Cranking them down actually stretches them a few thousandths. I believe
> that Lycoming 540s are done this way, not that a lot of single digit RVs
> are using this engine. My suggestion is to follow the standard torque
> tables for standard hardware and the rebuild manual for engine bolts.
> MG
>
> Do not archive
>
> John D. Heath wrote:
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" <Alto_Q@direcway.com>
>>
>>No body seems to want to touch this so I'll give it what amounts to my 2
>>cents worth.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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