---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 02/06/05: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:43 AM - Re: Six versus Seven Safety (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 3. 06:17 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson) 4. 06:24 AM - RV9A (Randy) 5. 06:32 AM - Nose Gear Bolt Torque... (Alfred Klewin) 6. 06:55 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (sarg314) 7. 07:55 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Denis Walsh) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: Six versus Seven Safety (Jeff Dowling) 9. 08:13 AM - Re: Proseal on all ribs or not (Richard Crosley) 10. 08:13 AM - Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment (Jeff Dowling) 11. 08:18 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson) 12. 08:18 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Bobby Hester) 13. 10:36 AM - Fw: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Jerry Grimmonpre) 14. 10:36 AM - Re: Nose Gear Bolt Torque... (Dan Krueger) 15. 10:48 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Rick Galati) 16. 11:07 AM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson) 17. 12:24 PM - 327/Dynon question (Dana Overall) 18. 12:55 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Todd Bartrim) 19. 12:56 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (cgalley) 20. 01:29 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Don Mack) 21. 01:29 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Bob C.) 22. 01:29 PM - engine hanging problem (sarg314) 23. 01:49 PM - Re: 327/Dynon question (Gary Zilik) 24. 01:58 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (John D. Heath) 25. 02:21 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 26. 02:34 PM - Re: RV-6A nose gear top bolt (Alex Peterson) 27. 03:38 PM - Re: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment (HCRV6@aol.com) 28. 04:31 PM - Re: engine hanging problem (sarg314) 29. 04:38 PM - Fw: [LML] Brain Lock (Jerry Grimmonpre) 30. 04:56 PM - For Sale: Eggenfellner Engine Package (Carlrayw@aol.com) 31. 05:47 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Mark Grieve) 32. 07:49 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (John D. Heath) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:14 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: Six versus Seven Safety --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) 7 uses the 8's wing spar design & thicker wing skins in some area. It's in the archives and old RVator has a story written by Van on this. At first some builders thought the "newer" style spar was weaker than the old 6 style in how it secured to the fuse and Van had to straighten them out. lucky do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point > > > > > > >It would be interesting to know why the 7 has a higher aerobatic gross > >than the 6. Any ideas anyone? > > > > > There was some discussion about this when the 7 first hit the shelves. > IIRC part of the equation was that the 1375 weight of the -6 was a very > conservative number which had a large "fudge factor" for differences in > constsruction of different planes. With the -7 and the matched hole > kits, it was determined that the fudge factor did not have to be as > large, and this was one of the factors in the higher aerobatic gross > weight of the -7. > > Jeff Point > RV-6 "Classic" > Milwaukee WI > > > > > > 7 uses the 8's wing spar design thicker wing skins in some area. It's in the archives and old RVator has a story written by Van on this. At first some builders thought the "newer" style spar was weaker than the old 6 style in how it secured to the fuse and Van had to straighten them out. lucky do not archive -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point It would be interesting to know why the 7 has a higher aerobatic gross than the 6. Any ideas anyone? There was some discussion about this when the 7 first hit the shelves. IIRC part of the equation was that the 1375 weight of the -6 was a very conservative number which had a large "fudge factor" for differences in constsruction of different planes. With the -7 and the matched hole kits, it was determined that the fudge factor did not have to be as large, and this was one of the factors in the higher aerobatic gross weight of the -7. Jeff Point RV-6 "Classic" Milwaukee WI &g t; atronics.com/photoshare ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:05 AM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 2/5/05 11:02:38 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time, sarg314@comcast.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to the engine mount. I had previously made a hole in the firewall (as per plans) so allow access for a socket wrench to tighten this bolt. I also made a plate to cover the hole. Installing the nose gear for real tonight (I hang the engine tomorrow) I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place. Is this typical? Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine. Tom, I had the same problem with my 7A. I put the bolt in upside down and put the nut on the top side. I know that people may say that is wrong, but faced with the options, that seemed to be a viable solution. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A N766DH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:00 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to > the engine > mount. I had previously made a hole in the firewall (as per > plans) so > allow access for a socket wrench to tighten this bolt. I also made a > plate to cover the hole. Installing the nose gear for real > tonight (I > hang the engine tomorrow) I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually > interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my > cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place. > > Is this typical? > > Only solution I can think of is to mount a 1/16" or 1/8" plate with a > hole in it on the cabin side of the firewall to effectively move the > cabin side of the firewall aft to allow room for the bolt. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine. Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under the bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise in the firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started onto the bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things. Alex Peterson RV6-A 569 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:24:29 AM PST US From: "Randy" Subject: RV-List: RV9A --> RV-List message posted by: "Randy" I have a -9A. I would like to put it on floats. Czech says it should have T/D gear config. Other than engine mount, skin cutouts and tail wheel, are there any additional significant changes. Randy ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:33 AM PST US From: Alfred Klewin Subject: RV-List: Nose Gear Bolt Torque... --> RV-List message posted by: Alfred Klewin Folks, Anyone have the nose gear bolt (one holding the tire on) torque specs handy? Not much in the archives and I seem to have misplaced mine!!! Thanks, Kurt in OKC Do Not Archive --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:03 AM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 Alex: Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a good practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option, though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the interference, but does not completely eliminate it. Alex Peterson wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > >>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 >> >>There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to >>the engine >> >> >>I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually >>interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my >>cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place. >>-- >>Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine. >> >> > >Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under the >bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise in the >firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started onto the >bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things. > >Alex Peterson > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:55:45 AM PST US From: Denis Walsh Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh Two (in) elegant solutions I have seen are to either whack the firewall with a ball pein hammer to get a few millimeter dimple, or to carefully grind off a little on the end of the bolt. A more elegant solution is to cut a hole in the firewall, fabircate a cover (I heard this is in the plans now?). If you already have a cover plate, whack it. Good luck. Don't underestimate the iimportance of this rascal. It needs to be installed properly and well torqued to sustain big twisting loads, You will want to be able to inspect, and remove it with minimum hassle. I will throw in a highly opinionated comment: I see occasionally some frustration expressed over Van's nose gear design. As a fellow who has done two or three thousand landings on his, I say it is a marvelous design. Dirt simple, functional, and easy to maintain. The airplane steers like a dream, and is simple to take off and land. Two moving parts, the wheel and the castering fork. One attach point to the plane. Keep it torqued, adjusted, and lubricated, and it is usually trouble free. Like the rest of the plane, it is intolerant of poor pilot technique. I have been around long enough to live through a service bulletin which encouraged all to switch to an improved nose leg (strut). During that process it became obvious that Van's supplier Harmon, Lange is an engineering genius who produces parts to close tolerances. Our nose leg may be the best tested piece of equipment on the plane. So I believe in treating it right. End of opinion. Do not archive. Denis On Feb 6, 2005, at 7:52 AM, sarg314 wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > Alex: > Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The > AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt > is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the > weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a > good > practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option, > though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the > interference, > but does not completely eliminate it. > > Alex Peterson wrote: > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" >> >> >> >> >>> --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 >>> >>> There is an AN5-20 bolt that pins the top of the nose gear to >>> the engine >>> >>> >>> I discovered that the AN5-20 bolt actually >>> interferes with the firewall - it's a bit too long. I can't screw my >>> cover plate over the hole when the bolt is in place. >>> -- >>> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine. >>> >>> >> >> Tom, is there a reason that you cannot simply put some washers under >> the >> bolt head? This works for me and I don't need any dent or otherwise >> in the >> firewall. The washer and nut on the bottom side need to be started >> onto the >> bolt, with the bolt only partially in, to start things. >> >> Alex Peterson >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:09 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Six versus Seven Safety --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" IMHO, you have to put the 6 and 7 in the same category as far as safety. When was the last incident a 6 had that would have been prevented in a 7? I think it comes down to the pilot with such similar airframes. There are advantages to the 7 I think, but not safety. do not archive Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 160 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "sarg314" Subject: Re: RV-List: Six versus Seven Safety > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > The 7 has a bigger rudder. The 7 has more rudder authority in a spin. > If I could refit my 6A with a 7 rudder, I would, but I'd have to change > the Vert. Stabilizer too. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:13:27 AM PST US From: "Richard Crosley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Proseal on all ribs or not --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Crosley" The bottom line question is "Do you want to Fly or Build". There are a lot of things you can do that won't hurt anything but also don't help much either. Buildings is fun but flying is really the point. Go ahead and start prosealing all the rivets. My bet is you'll get tired of that real quick. If the reason is to fill the rivet circles so the paint flows, squeegee in some primer with a credit card prior to spray priming. If you are really worried about corrosion dip the rivets in primer before you rivet. You'll get tired of doing that too, but it won't be as big a mess. I guess what I am saying is the building always seems to drag out longer than you think it should anyway, if it were me.....I won't add to it that much. There is a reason folks say "Keep pounding those Rivets" There really are a lot of them and by the time you finish you're ready to. Have fun...... Rich Crosley RV-8, N948RC, Flying real soon. Palmdale, CA ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:36 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" I used Bob's fairings on my 6a and just drilled them into the cockpit and installed nutplates. No problem. Now finishing it......... Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 160 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: RV-List: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" > > My RV6-A is on the wheels in my garage. Bob's http://www.fairings-etc.com > wheel pant intersection fairings are fitted and laminated onto the Van's > wheel pants. Bob's parts dropped in place and it took me quite a lot of > effort to fit, laminate and finish to match the quality of his > craftsmanship. Thanks Bob! > > Now I am looking for some ideas and hopefully some pictures as to > attachment > of the upper leg intersection fairing to the fuselage. > I am looking for suggestions re- attachment points, hardware suggestions: > Rivnuts Platenuts, Tinnermans, Springs and mounting point locations etc. > I have been mulling this over for a while and have yet to settle them in > place. > > If you have pictures I'd sure like to see them. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim in Kelowna > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:59 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" Tom, ours must be a little different. I have one or two thick washers under the head (on the top), and I still have no threads in the mount. The bolt, however, can only barely be peeking through when I start the nut on the bottom. Alex > --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > Alex: > Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The > AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of > the bolt > is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, > some of the > weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is > not a good > practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option, > though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the > interference, > but does not completely eliminate it. > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:59 AM PST US From: Bobby Hester Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester sarg314 wrote: > <>--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > > Alex: > Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The > AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of the bolt > is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, some of the > weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is not a good > practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option, > though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the interference, > but does not completely eliminate it. > > I beleive it shows this bolt installed upside down on one of the drawings, don't have them here. That is how mine is installed. (RV7A) If you install it upside down and file the edge of the bolt head were it interfers, would that not work? On the RV7 plans they show a round plug snap in cover for this hole. I think you might be able to use one of those installed from the inside to give you the extra room you need. Proseal over the engine side. -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:00 AM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: Fw: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Denis or anyone with the experience ... Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any builder or group, to make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a fiberlock nut or all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach to staking the top of the nose gear? It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking hole started to enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really good way to tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I witnessed an RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution carried out was to redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if, maybe, a tapered bolt would solve this problem for many more hours. Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one, anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A > --> RV-List message posted by: Denis Walsh > I have been around long enough to live through a service bulletin which > encouraged all to switch to an improved nose leg (strut). During that > process it became obvious that Van's supplier Harmon, Lange is an > engineering genius who produces parts to close tolerances. Our nose > leg may be the best tested piece of equipment on the plane. So I > believe in treating it right. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:00 AM PST US From: Dan Krueger Subject: Re: RV-List: Nose Gear Bolt Torque... --> RV-List message posted by: Dan Krueger > > > Anyone have the nose gear bolt (one holding the tire on) torque > specs handy? > > 7-10 ft lbs Dan Krueger RV6A Flying ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:19 AM PST US From: Rick Galati Subject: RV-List: RE: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati I guess everybody can have a different situation to deal with. In mine, when the AN5-20A bolt was inserted, the grip length was exactly right but the threads on the bottom side of the bolt touched the firewall, displacing it slightly. Rather than drill a big hole in the stainless just to be covered with a cap as called out in the plans, I merely shaved a little material off the threads of the bolt at an angle so that when the bolt was reinserted, it just barely clears the firewall. With a limited area MS21042 self-locking nut in place, ample thread protrusion remains. Rick Galati RV-6A finished "not yet flying" > Alex: > Well, yes, there is a reason I can't fix it with washers. The > AN5-20A is the right size bolt for this, that is, the grip of > the bolt > is just the right length. It I put washers under the head, > some of the > weight will be born on the threaded part of the bolt which is > not a good > practice. Shortening the threaded end of the bolt may be an option, > though. Also, installing the bolt upside down reduces the > interference, > but does not completely eliminate it. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:07:24 AM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" > > Denis or anyone with the experience ... > Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any > builder or group, to > make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a > fiberlock nut or > all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach > to staking the > top of the nose gear? > > It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking > hole started to > enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really > good way to > tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I > witnessed an > RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution > carried out was to > redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if, > maybe, a tapered > bolt would solve this problem for many more hours. > Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one, > anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years ago about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational experience, I'll add a little more. I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using the standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose gear clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced it with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still it was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan to replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help. What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted. The bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement at that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't. What say others? Alex Peterson RV6-A 569 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:34 PM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at that:-) My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any clues as to why this is showing 600'? When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so I know it is receiving something. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:34 PM PST US From: "Todd Bartrim" Subject: RE: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" Hi Dana; I should probably leave this to the more knowledgeable, but.... I believe that the Dynon (or any encoder) reports altitude to the X-ponder uncompensated for barometric pressure and the x-ponder in turn reports this uncompensated altitude. This ensures that ATC sees consistent altitudes from all aircraft in the area, regardless of any individual aircraft's altimeter setting. ATC applies the current correction setting themselves. At least that is what I believe.... maybe someone can confirm this? Todd Bartrim RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at that:-) My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any clues as to why this is showing 600'? When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so I know it is receiving something. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:56:56 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" Would the "red" Loctite be a good fix? It is supposed to make a "press fit" with up to 0.010 clearances. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt > --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" > > > > Denis or anyone with the experience ... > > Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any > > builder or group, to > > make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a > > fiberlock nut or > > all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach > > to staking the > > top of the nose gear? > > > > It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking > > hole started to > > enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really > > good way to > > tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I > > witnessed an > > RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution > > carried out was to > > redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if, > > maybe, a tapered > > bolt would solve this problem for many more hours. > > Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one, > > anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A > > Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years ago > about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational experience, > I'll add a little more. > > I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using the > standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I > pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose gear > clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced it > with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still it > was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to > remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was > absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been > beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan to > replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in > the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help. > > What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted. The > bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement at > that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this > situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could > tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't. > > What say others? > > Alex Peterson > RV6-A 569 hours > Maple Grove, MN > > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:12 PM PST US From: "Don Mack" Subject: Re: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: "Don Mack" That's correct. The dynon reports pressure alt. The actual alt is calculated by the FAA computers when being display on their screens. > --> RV-List message posted by: "Todd Bartrim" > > Hi Dana; > I should probably leave this to the more knowledgeable, but.... > I believe that the Dynon (or any encoder) reports altitude to the X-ponder > uncompensated for barometric pressure and the x-ponder in turn reports > this > uncompensated altitude. This ensures that ATC sees consistent altitudes > from > all aircraft in the area, regardless of any individual aircraft's > altimeter > setting. ATC applies the current correction setting themselves. > > At least that is what I believe.... maybe someone can confirm this? > > Todd Bartrim > > RV9Endurance > OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at > that:-) > > My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro > setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any > clues as to why this is showing 600'? > > When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank > so > I know it is receiving something. > > > Dana Overall > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:12 PM PST US From: "Bob C. " Subject: Re: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. " Dana, I believe the data going to the xponder is always based on 29.92 in/hg. and would ignore your altimeter setting? The FAA then adjusts for current altimeter setting from the 29.92 . . . that's so you can use a "blind encoder". Regards, Bob On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 15:20:54 -0500, Dana Overall wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at > that:-) > > My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro > setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any > clues as to why this is showing 600'? > > When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so > I know it is receiving something. > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 01:29:12 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: RV-List: engine hanging problem --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I tried hanging the engine (IO-360-B2B) on my 6A and was surprised to find that normal sockets won't fit on the bolt head or nut. I find interference on each end of the bolt. The torque wrench with a 5/8 socket hits the engine mount tube and won't go over the bolt head. A socket can't be manuvered onto the nut end beacuse of obstructions on the engine - well the top of the engine anyway. (The lower bolts look like they might have more clearance. ) The nut is recessed into the engine enough that it is nearly impossible to get an open end wrench on it, never mind a socket. I got the first bolt screwed on part way using a closed end wrench on the bolt head. It *might* be possible if I cut the socket about 1/4" shorter, but in all I have read about hanging an engine, I haven't heard any mention of these problems. Is this normal? How do I get my Sears toque wrench to work here? -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 01:49:18 PM PST US From: Gary Zilik Subject: Re: RV-List: 327/Dynon question --> RV-List message posted by: Gary Zilik Dana, The gray code coming from the dynon is based on an altimiter setting of 29.92 regardless of what you set the Kollsman window to. All encoders are set up this way. Gary Dana Overall wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > >OK, got the 430 "problem" fixed, my bad..............I'll leave it at >that:-) > >My Dynon is wired into my 327 sending gray code. No matter what baro >setting I use on the Dynon, the 327 still shows 600' pressure alt. Any >clues as to why this is showing 600'? > >When I turn off the Dynon, the pressure alt display on the 327 goes blank so >I know it is receiving something. > > >Dana Overall >Richmond, KY i39 >RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" >Finish kit >13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. >http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg >http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg >http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg >do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:58:31 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Check this out, http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/660-EN.pdf . I think this should be considered even for new assembly. The close tolerance bolt is definitely an upgrade. John D. Heath Point Blank, TX ~75 miles N. of Houston DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > Would the "red" Loctite be a good fix? It is supposed to make a "press > fit" > with up to 0.010 clearances. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alex Peterson" > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt > > >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > >> >> >> > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" >> > >> > Denis or anyone with the experience ... >> > Has there ever been any consideration, or talk, by any >> > builder or group, to >> > make the nose gear top bolt a tapered bolt fastened with a >> > fiberlock nut or >> > all metal lock nut? What is your opinion of such an approach >> > to staking the >> > top of the nose gear? >> > >> > It would seem that if a nose gear top bolt and the staking >> > hole started to >> > enlarge and loosen, drilling a tapered hole would be a really >> > good way to >> > tighten things up nicely. I ran across this problem when I >> > witnessed an >> > RV6A, in for a fix for this very problem. The solution >> > carried out was to >> > redrill for a larger bolt. In hind sight, I wondered if, >> > maybe, a tapered >> > bolt would solve this problem for many more hours. >> > Are there opinions, or learned experiences on this one, >> > anyone? Jerry Grimmonpre 7A >> >> Jerry, this is a very good question. I wrote on this list several years > ago >> about the nose gear mounting bolt. Now, with further operational > experience, >> I'll add a little more. >> >> I originally mounted it exactly as the plans called for, including using > the >> standard AN bolt. I did not like the slop in the system, however. If I >> pushed left and right on the nose of the plane, I could hear the nose >> gear >> clicking back and forth, beating on both the bolt and mount. I replaced > it >> with a close tolerance AN bolt, and greatly reduced the slop. But, still > it >> was there. Anyway, after about 400 hours, during an annual, I decided to >> remove the nose gear for cleaning and inspection. Removing that bolt was >> absolutely challenging, and probably took me an hour. The bolt had been >> beat up by the nose gear such that it was really tough to remove. I plan > to >> replace the bolt every 200 hours now. I dressed the edges of the hole in >> the gear, which were quite sharp as supplied, and that may help. >> >> What the design really needs, IMNSHO, is for the mount to be slotted. >> The >> bolt should addionally clamp the mount to the gear, allowing no movement > at >> that location. I suspect that due to tolerances, many planes have this >> situation already. Mine not. I sacrificed a bolt just to see if I could >> tighten it enough to prevent motion, and I couldn't. >> >> What say others? >> >> Alex Peterson >> RV6-A 569 hours >> Maple Grove, MN >> >> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:22 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com In a message dated 2/6/05 11:20:14 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, bhester@hopkinsville.net writes: I beleive it shows this bolt installed upside down on one of the drawings, don't have them here. That is how mine is installed. (RV7A) If you install it upside down and file the edge of the bolt head were it interfers, would that not work? On the RV7 plans they show a round plug snap in cover for this hole. I think you might be able to use one of those installed from the inside to give you the extra room you need. Proseal over the engine side. Tom, This is exactly what I ended up doing. Bolt upside down and plug inserted from inside the plane. Not pretty, but who's gonna look? Also, please see my earlier post (attached below) for an undersize drill for getting a tight fit on these gear leg bolts. Regards, Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying for the first time since before Christmas -- In fact I had been getting a little depressed lately, but I feel like a new man now!!! The -7A is a wonderful ship. You should have seen those 200 horses digging it out of that half-muddy/half-snow-covered field!) Listers, My thought is that if the hole is close to begin with, then it is not as likely to wallow out. You should have to almost drive the bolt in to the gear leg and bracket (with a little LPS-3 on it). I measured the diameter of the kit supplied bolts with a micrometer, then looked through all my assortment of bits hoping to find one that was about .002 inch under 5/16 inch for a good match. I found almost all of my 5/16 high speed steel bits were very close to the same size. However, I discovered, almost by accident, that all of the drill bits were tapered -- getting progressively smaller as you went away from the cutting end of the bit. I was able to get the bit about .002 inch undersized by cutting it in two at about half of its original length with a grinder. You can then re-sharpen the bit and it will still be long enough to drill through the gear leg and mount. You can re-sharpen hss bits much more successfully than the titanium bits that we get from Avery. Of course, you should have already drilled the hole about 19/64 inch (1/64 under 5/16) before you drill this finish hole. This is a poor man's substitute for a reamer, I guess. Reamers are hard to come by out here in the sticks! It worked great for me. YMMV. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A N766DH (Flying since last July) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:49 PM PST US From: "Alex Peterson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-6A nose gear top bolt --> RV-List message posted by: "Alex Peterson" > --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > Check this out, http://tds.loctite.com/tds5/docs/660-EN.pdf . > I think this > should be considered even for new assembly. > The close tolerance bolt is definitely an upgrade. John and Cy, Interesting idea, but the statement (in the above link) about disassembly requiring heating the part to 250C is a little worrisome... that is 482F. Alex Peterson RV6-A 569 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:38:09 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6-a upper gear leg intersection Fairings attachment --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 2/5/05 5:09:42 PM Pacific Standard Time, jjewell@telus.net writes: << Now I am looking for some ideas and hopefully some pictures as to attachment of the upper leg intersection fairing to the fuselage. >> Jim: I just finished installing the upper leg intersection fairings from //fairings etc. I decided to use #6 flush screws and nut plates. I laminated two strips of glass about 1 inch wide around the top of Bob's fairings and blended it with micro to provide additional thickness for the countersunk screw heads/tinnerman washers. I used three screws into the bottom cowl and two into the fuselage bottom skin. In the cowl there is one at the leading edge of the fairing and one on each side about 1 1/4 inch from the aft edge of the cowl. In the bottom skin there is one screw just forward of the split line in the fairing and one at the bottom aft end. I also installed a nutplate in the fairing where Bob just provides for a sheet metal screw to hold the split line together. The fairing is very solid and the installation looks good. I did have to build up the inside of the fairing at the leading edge with micro to get a snug fit to my bottom cowl but I suspect that will vary from plane to plane. Sorry, no pics, but I hope this helps. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying! ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:45 PM PST US From: sarg314 Subject: Re: RV-List: engine hanging problem --> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 I solved most of my problems. I got a closed end wrench and ground a bit of it away to get it to fit on the nuts. Then I remembered I had some crow-foot wrenches and used one of those on the torque wrench (with appropriate adjustment to torque setting). Question: How much torque should I add for the fact that I'm torquing the bolt head instaed of the nut? I'm guessing a couple foot-pounds. I didn't try to measure it. The engine is on now, except that 3 of the 4 bolts are badly lined up for cotter pin insertion. Torquing up to the max doesn't seem to move it much. If they were lined up it will be very hard to get the cotter pin safetied properly - it's a tight spot. I guess I'll deal with that tomorrow. sarg314 wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: sarg314 > >I tried hanging the engine (IO-360-B2B) on my 6A and was surprised to >find that normal sockets won't fit on the bolt head or nut. I find > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:38:36 PM PST US From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" Subject: RV-List: Fw: [LML] Brain Lock --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Grimmonpre" For the RV List with posting permission from the author ... Brent Regan, creator of Chelton glass system. Jerry Grimmonpre ----- Original Message ----- From: Brent Regan Subject: [LML] Brain Lock As is the case with many physiological functions being autonomic (circulatory, digestive, metabolism and most of respiratory), a majority of cognitive functions are also "automatic" and are performed outside the control of the conscious mind. In many cases this background processing is tasked with integrating various sensory inputs into a comprehensive sense of reality. Providing unnatural or unexpected inputs can confuse these processes. As pilots, a common experience with this phenomenon is the spatial disorientation experienced during unusual attitude training. The disorientation is the product of conflicting sensory inputs from the inner ear (balance), propriosensic (seat of the pants) and vision (instruments). Vision usually dominates, and would in this case, except that the steam gauges and needles require additional processing that degrades the "believability" of the visual information so the incorrect signals dominate. Fast forward to the modern age of high fidelity glass. The synthetic images displayed require less processing and are therefore more believable to the autonomic cognitive systems. It is easy and natural to for your brain to "lock" onto the image as if it were reality and ignore conflicting information. This makes for safer IFR flight as it requires less brain processing bandwidth, leaving more for other flight tasks (communicating, navigating, monitoring, etc.) The problem occurs when the Glass is wrong. Even when the image on the screen does NOT represent reality then there is still an overwhelming visual input. Imagine that you were flying on instruments in VFR conditions. Your scan was on the gauges but your peripheral vision allowed you to see outside. Now imagine what would happen if the view outside started to tumble while the gauges and your butt are telling you that you are still in level flight. Since the outside view is more compelling, the natural reaction would be to ignore the needles and attempt to follow the compelling visual picture. Now imagine the same scenario except that you are in IFR conditions and "compelling" visual image is from your high fidelity glass cockpit. I can tell you from personal experience (development flight tests) that when the glass starts to roll, you really want to roll with it and even when you have identified the that there is a problem and are using the standby gauges the "wrong" picture in your peripheral vision continues to be a distraction. My strong advice is that if the glass is in doubt, turn it off (power, dimming or cover it) and go to your standby gauges. I was motivated to write this after reading the following account: http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id20050131X00119&key1 There is no way to determine if a glass failure induced this accident and I would not want to speculate as to the cause. I was reminded by this account of the disorientation I experienced when the power supply in a new AHRS I was testing went TU and induced a 30 degree per second roll on the display. Reverting the PFD to Moving Map immediately "fixed" my disorientation as I was then able to use the standby attitude indicator without the conflicting rolling image on the PFD. It was NOT enough to just "know" the glass was wrong and ignore it as my autonomic brain wanted to lock onto the more compelling image. If you have incorrect information displayed, cover it or remove it from view. Ignoring it doesn't work. Regards Brent Regan ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:47 PM PST US From: Carlrayw@aol.com Subject: RV-List: For Sale: Eggenfellner Engine Package --> RV-List message posted by: Carlrayw@aol.com I have one of the earlier 2002 engine packages which I would like to sell. I bought it for an rv9 but I know it will fit some other rvs. engine package heater package EIS monitor no fuel sensors fuel valve Oeitiker kit 1 metal tank and 2 gallons of antifreeze engine manual Will sell for $15,500.00 about what I have invested with no markup email me if interested at _carlrayw@aol.com_ (mailto:carlrayw@aol.com) It has been stored in a heated garage and is still in the crate. I have used a wrench to turn it over occasionally so I know it is still ok. Was going to start it up but decided it would be better not to unless I don't sell it, then I will have to run it occasionally till I sell it. Reason for selling is that I don't think I will get to finish and fly my kit for a lot more years if ever so rather than have it sit for much longer I would like to see someone get use of it. A hard decision to make but something I must do. I would like to have someone pick it up or I could deliver it for a shipping charge. I live in Michigan at Traverse City. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 05:47:41 PM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve Excellent post John! Another point about connecting rod bolts is that some are properly torqued when they have reached a specified length. Cranking them down actually stretches them a few thousandths. I believe that Lycoming 540s are done this way, not that a lot of single digit RVs are using this engine. My suggestion is to follow the standard torque tables for standard hardware and the rebuild manual for engine bolts. MG Do not archive John D. Heath wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > >No body seems to want to touch this so I'll give it what amounts to my 2 >cents worth. > > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:16 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Mark , I see that technoligy moving into General Aviation fast. The automotive after market has been into it for years. It has built in safety factors. That same rod bolt takes a given amount of turn (or torque, depending on the tightening methode used) to go from .001" to .008" strech. If it takes less than that, you know you have a problem, befor you go any further. Torque wrenches as we know them are also becoming a thing of the past. now there are bolts that have a second head that twist off on instalation when you arrive at the proper torque. New design head bolts are preliminarly torque using a socket that slips at a predetermined value and then given 90* angle turn, three times. I can see an advantage to that methode on case through bolts. Thanks the comments John D. DO NOT ARCHIVE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Grieve" Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications > --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve > > Excellent post John! Another point about connecting rod bolts is that > some are properly torqued when they have reached a specified length. > Cranking them down actually stretches them a few thousandths. I believe > that Lycoming 540s are done this way, not that a lot of single digit RVs > are using this engine. My suggestion is to follow the standard torque > tables for standard hardware and the rebuild manual for engine bolts. > MG > > Do not archive > > John D. Heath wrote: > >>--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" >> >>No body seems to want to touch this so I'll give it what amounts to my 2 >>cents worth. >> >> >> >> >> > > >