---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/08/05: 22 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:07 AM - Re: XM Weather (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 2. 05:03 AM - Re: XM Weather & the Fog Crash (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)) 3. 06:14 AM - Re: Starter Motor / Alternator Brace (Bill Gunn) 4. 10:37 AM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Dwight Frye) 5. 11:27 AM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (linn walters) 6. 11:49 AM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (BRUCE GRAY) 7. 12:25 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Dwight Frye) 8. 01:24 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (BRUCE GRAY) 9. 01:33 PM - Re: Freight (David Carter) 10. 05:32 PM - (Mark/Micki Phillips) 11. 05:52 PM - Tools for newbies (j1j2h3@juno.com) 12. 06:08 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (John D. Heath) 13. 06:10 PM - Alternator Brace (Martin Hone) 14. 06:51 PM - Flaps (Dana Overall) 15. 07:03 PM - Re: Flaps (Sam Buchanan) 16. 07:05 PM - Re: Flaps (Kyle Boatright) 17. 07:23 PM - Re: (Ralph E. Capen) 18. 07:30 PM - Re: Flaps (Jeff Orear) 19. 07:37 PM - Re: Flaps (Jerry Calvert) 20. 07:48 PM - Re: Flaps (Dan Checkoway) 21. 09:35 PM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Tedd McHenry) 22. 10:10 PM - Washers and bolts (John D. Heath) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:07:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: XM Weather From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Boy Ditto that Sam. The Trio is so precise. Mine flies mine better than me too. Did we have the same flight instructor?:) Now if I could just get it to track my flight lead, I could perfect my wingman skills too. On several occasions I have felt "not in complete command of my flying situation" and pushing that button gets my butt and my brain back on track instantly. It's the best tool in my plane. My brain takes a distant second. I also have to agree with Dan. Having flown a few hours in the RV over the past couple of years with lots of cross country and weather, XM would be nice, but FLightwatch has been a pretty good second place option. Mike Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: XM Weather --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan SportAV8R@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: SportAV8R@aol.com > > Sheesh, Doug; I'm not Instrument-rated yet, but I always heard IFR > was pretty demanding flying. You must really trust your auto-pilot, > huh? What's the point of having an autopilot if you don't trust it? One reason the EZ-Pilot is in my RV-6 is so I have an aid if for some reason I can't figure out how to extract myself from a dicey situation. In a case like that, I will trust the EZ-Pilot with my life! I have also found that the auto-pilot can fly my plane better than I can when I am under the hood......... Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:03:43 AM PST US From: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: XM Weather & the Fog Crash --> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky) Neither. A pilot who flys an RV for VFR fun but has adequate big picture situational awareness to maintian the flight VFR and by dodging the type of weather I might actually encounter and still consider safe to continue if I had in flight radar superimposed over terrain/obstacle/airspace information. Having lived and flown in Florida for years, I actually understand the value of realtime big picture situational awareness and how the picture can change faster than the forecasters can accurately predict. Even on a typical leisurely Saturday flight down the intercoastal to strafe some san pans, over to the reservation for cheap fuel and back home counting the new housing developments that popped up since last time. A picture is worth even more than a thousand words, even flightwatche's, at times. I like my doo dads in the cockpit and GRT is interfacing XM weather and if current trends continue that will also be another free future upgrade SW wise. Another reason why overall it's better to have put the money in GRTs integrated PFD/engine/map system than a combo of systems such as Dynon and ACS. lucky -------------- Original message -------------- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > > a preflight WX brief. But once airborne and you need updated > > final destination orfuel stopfog conditions, can XM weather in > > the cockpit help? > > Jeez, don't they call that 122.0, a.k.a. FlightWatch? Free for us > taxpayers... > > I'm not denying the value of in-cockpit weather maps, reports, decoded data, > etc. I would love to have it! Just saying if you're like me and don't want > to spend the money on doohickeys, just key the mic on 122.0 and there's your > personal weather briefer at your service. > > And while I'm on the topic of spending money -- spend the money on IFR > training (and equipment if possible). Which would you rather be: > > - a VFR-only pilot with the fanciest in-cockpit weather setup > - an IFR pilot with a 40 year old radio > > ? > > Just my 2 cents. Fly safe. do not archive > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > Neither. A pilot who flys an RV for VFR fun but has adequate big picture situational awareness to maintian the flight VFR and bydodging the type of weather I might actually encounter and still consider safe to continue if I had in flight radar superimposed over terrain/obstacle/airspace information. Having lived and flown in Florida for years, Iactually understand the value of realtime big picture situational awareness and how the picture can change faster than the forecasters can accurately predict.Even on a typical leisurely Saturday flight down the intercoastal to strafe some san pans, over to the reservation for cheap fuel and back home counting the new housing developments that popped up since last time. A picture is worth even more than a thousand words, evenflightwatche's, at times. I like my doo dads in the cockpit and GRT is interfacing XM weather and if current trends continue that will also be another free future upgrade SW wise. Another reason why overall it's better to have put the money in GRTs integrated PFD/engine/map system than a combo of systems such as Dynon and ACS. lucky -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" a preflight WX brief. But once airborne and you need updated final destination orfuel stopfog conditions, can XM weather in the cockpit help? Jeez, don't they call that 122.0, a.k.a. FlightWatch? Free for us taxpayers... I'm not denying the value of in-cockpit weather maps, reports, decoded data, etc. I would love to have it! Just saying if you're like me and don't want to spend the money on doohickeys, just key the mic on 122.0 and there's your personal weather briefer at your service. And while I'm on the topic of spending money -- spend the money on IFR training (and equipment if possible). Which would you rather be: - a VFR-only pilot with the fanciest in-cockpit weather setup - an IFR pilot with a 40 year old radio ? Just my 2 cents. Fly safe. do not archive )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com om/search ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:23 AM PST US From: "Bill Gunn" Subject: Re: RV-List: Starter Motor / Alternator Brace --> RV-List message posted by: "Bill Gunn" I made this brace out of 1 inch X 1/4 inch mild steel from Home Depot. Bend a "S" shape to fit the starter boss mount-to-alternator mount, drill the two holes and paint. Works great and this does reduce vibration to help prevent bracket cracking. Before I hade this bracket, the alternator mount bracket would loosen the engine case bolts (older style mount bracket; mounted to the engine case bolts). Bill Gunn, RV 4 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:01 AM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye On Sat Feb 5 21:08:34 2005, John D. Heath wrote : > [ ... snip ... ] > Other requirements of the standard are, AN310 nuts used in tension, AN320 >nuts used in shear, and all standard Aircraft bolts are Cadmium plated. One >thing that is not made as clear as it could be is what constitutes the face >bearing area. The head of the bolt and the nut should both bear on a >standard AN960 Washer which is also cadmium plated. This Cadmium plating >provides the proper and uniform lubricant required to arrive at the >pre-stress requirement consistently. > [ ... snip ... ] Ok ... I'm going to expose my ignorance here, and venture a question that has bugged me. I also had originally been under the impression that a washer should go under both the head and the nut, but many of the hardware callouts on Van's plans indicate no washer for the head of the bolt. What is a poor builder to do? Go with "standard practice", or "do what the designer says"? And if I do add a washer where none was specified, I assume that you might have to adjust the selection of bolt such that the grip length is right (i.e. that no threads are actually inside the joint). So far, I've been "doing what the designer says", but I *have* wondered about this. Opinions? (Like this group doesn't have opinions!) -- Dwight RV-7 / Working on QB fuse Waiting on Dynon heated pitot (darn it) do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:27:53 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters I hadn't heard of putting a washer under both the bolt head and nut. AFAIK, the washer always goes under the 'rotating' part .... the bolt head if the bolt head is turned .... such as a bolt into a tapped hole, and under the nut if it's being tightened ..... such as on a stud. When there is both a bolt head and nut, the bolt head is held still while the nut is tightened ..... especially if there is a torque value to be met ..... because of the added drag produced by the shaft of the bolt, and the washer goes under the nut. Of course, all this may be bogus ...... but it's what I've always done. Linn ...... always finding out about my bad habits! do not archive Dwight Frye wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >On Sat Feb 5 21:08:34 2005, John D. Heath wrote : > > >>[ ... snip ... ] >> Other requirements of the standard are, AN310 nuts used in tension, AN320 >>nuts used in shear, and all standard Aircraft bolts are Cadmium plated. One >>thing that is not made as clear as it could be is what constitutes the face >>bearing area. The head of the bolt and the nut should both bear on a >>standard AN960 Washer which is also cadmium plated. This Cadmium plating >>provides the proper and uniform lubricant required to arrive at the >>pre-stress requirement consistently. >>[ ... snip ... ] >> >> > >Ok ... I'm going to expose my ignorance here, and venture a question that >has bugged me. I also had originally been under the impression that a >washer should go under both the head and the nut, but many of the hardware >callouts on Van's plans indicate no washer for the head of the bolt. What >is a poor builder to do? Go with "standard practice", or "do what the >designer says"? > >And if I do add a washer where none was specified, I assume that you might >have to adjust the selection of bolt such that the grip length is right >(i.e. that no threads are actually inside the joint). > >So far, I've been "doing what the designer says", but I *have* wondered >about this. Opinions? (Like this group doesn't have opinions!) > > -- Dwight > RV-7 / Working on QB fuse > Waiting on Dynon heated pitot (darn it) > do not archive > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:49:51 AM PST US From: "BRUCE GRAY" Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" We are all used to looking at our cars/trucks and tractors. Washers are on everything! We have to separate ourselves from this thinking. Those vehicles mentioned are grounded and can weight a couple tons and nobody cares. The RV aircraft were made to be light, fast, and aerobatic. Why add more bolt weight and double the washer count that are already in the design because we think it will be more robust? Yes, there are some tanks out there that fly pretty good but the one's that own these aircraft always scratch there head why they cannot get their aircrafts to go 200mph like Bob's in the hanger next door. Something to think about before the creative mind starts altering something that is proven and tried. Plus you'll hit that 200mph with no problem if you K.I.S.. DO NOT ARCHIVE >From: Dwight Frye >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:46:24 -0500 (EST) > >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >On Sat Feb 5 21:08:34 2005, John D. Heath wrote : > > [ ... snip ... ] > > Other requirements of the standard are, AN310 nuts used in tension, >AN320 > >nuts used in shear, and all standard Aircraft bolts are Cadmium plated. >One > >thing that is not made as clear as it could be is what constitutes the >face > >bearing area. The head of the bolt and the nut should both bear on a > >standard AN960 Washer which is also cadmium plated. This Cadmium plating > >provides the proper and uniform lubricant required to arrive at the > >pre-stress requirement consistently. > > [ ... snip ... ] > >Ok ... I'm going to expose my ignorance here, and venture a question that >has bugged me. I also had originally been under the impression that a >washer should go under both the head and the nut, but many of the hardware >callouts on Van's plans indicate no washer for the head of the bolt. What >is a poor builder to do? Go with "standard practice", or "do what the >designer says"? > >And if I do add a washer where none was specified, I assume that you might >have to adjust the selection of bolt such that the grip length is right >(i.e. that no threads are actually inside the joint). > >So far, I've been "doing what the designer says", but I *have* wondered >about this. Opinions? (Like this group doesn't have opinions!) > > -- Dwight > RV-7 / Working on QB fuse > Waiting on Dynon heated pitot (darn it) > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:25:48 PM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye I had someone off-list point out that if you look at the head of an AN bolt you'll see an integral "bearing surface". It is a raised area (awfully washer-like looking) which presses on the material underneath and prevents the corners of the hex head from digging in. I _had_ noticed this before, but had not given it much thought. This point about adding un-needed weight is another excellent point. Thanks for the input .... and the confirmation that generally doing what the designer (Van!) suggested is more often that not the right way to go (indicated rivet lengths being one big exception!). -- Dwight do not archive On Tue Feb 8 14:48:18 2005, BRUCE GRAY wrote : > >--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" > >We are all used to looking at our cars/trucks and tractors. Washers are on >everything! We have to separate ourselves from this thinking. Those vehicles >mentioned are grounded and can weight a couple tons and nobody cares. The RV >aircraft were made to be light, fast, and aerobatic. >Why add more bolt weight and double the washer count that are already in the >design because we think it will be more robust? Yes, there are some tanks >out there that fly pretty good but the one's that own these aircraft always >scratch there head why they cannot get their aircrafts to go 200mph like >Bob's in the hanger next door. > > Something to think about before the creative mind starts altering >something that is proven and tried. Plus you'll hit that 200mph with no >problem if you K.I.S.. > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > >>From: Dwight Frye >>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications >>Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:46:24 -0500 (EST) >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye >> >>On Sat Feb 5 21:08:34 2005, John D. Heath wrote : >> > [ ... snip ... ] >> > Other requirements of the standard are, AN310 nuts used in tension, >>AN320 >> >nuts used in shear, and all standard Aircraft bolts are Cadmium plated. >>One >> >thing that is not made as clear as it could be is what constitutes the >>face >> >bearing area. The head of the bolt and the nut should both bear on a >> >standard AN960 Washer which is also cadmium plated. This Cadmium plating >> >provides the proper and uniform lubricant required to arrive at the >> >pre-stress requirement consistently. >> > [ ... snip ... ] >> >>Ok ... I'm going to expose my ignorance here, and venture a question that >>has bugged me. I also had originally been under the impression that a >>washer should go under both the head and the nut, but many of the hardware >>callouts on Van's plans indicate no washer for the head of the bolt. What >>is a poor builder to do? Go with "standard practice", or "do what the >>designer says"? >> >>And if I do add a washer where none was specified, I assume that you might >>have to adjust the selection of bolt such that the grip length is right >>(i.e. that no threads are actually inside the joint). >> >>So far, I've been "doing what the designer says", but I *have* wondered >>about this. Opinions? (Like this group doesn't have opinions!) >> >> -- Dwight >> RV-7 / Working on QB fuse >> Waiting on Dynon heated pitot (darn it) >> do not archive >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:26 PM PST US From: "BRUCE GRAY" Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" Well, I did think we were talking about bolts and washers. True I have found in some of the applications and call-out for rivet size to be long/short. I to have had to adjust for what needed to be correct. Everyones mileage is going to very. No one plane is alike on the inside but share the same family looks on the outside. I think in short we are all trying to keep these beauties "light and fast". Do not archive >From: Dwight Frye >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications >Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 15:35:38 -0500 (EST) > >--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >I had someone off-list point out that if you look at the head of an >AN bolt you'll see an integral "bearing surface". It is a raised >area (awfully washer-like looking) which presses on the material >underneath and prevents the corners of the hex head from digging in. >I _had_ noticed this before, but had not given it much thought. This >point about adding un-needed weight is another excellent point. > >Thanks for the input .... and the confirmation that generally doing >what the designer (Van!) suggested is more often that not the right >way to go (indicated rivet lengths being one big exception!). > > -- Dwight > >do not archive > >On Tue Feb 8 14:48:18 2005, BRUCE GRAY wrote : > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "BRUCE GRAY" > > > >We are all used to looking at our cars/trucks and tractors. Washers are >on > >everything! We have to separate ourselves from this thinking. Those >vehicles > >mentioned are grounded and can weight a couple tons and nobody cares. The >RV > >aircraft were made to be light, fast, and aerobatic. > >Why add more bolt weight and double the washer count that are already in >the > >design because we think it will be more robust? Yes, there are some tanks > >out there that fly pretty good but the one's that own these aircraft >always > >scratch there head why they cannot get their aircrafts to go 200mph like > >Bob's in the hanger next door. > > > > Something to think about before the creative mind starts altering > >something that is proven and tried. Plus you'll hit that 200mph with no > >problem if you K.I.S.. > > > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > > > >>From: Dwight Frye > >>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>To: rv-list@matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications > >>Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 13:46:24 -0500 (EST) > >> > >>--> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye > >> > >>On Sat Feb 5 21:08:34 2005, John D. Heath wrote : > >> > [ ... snip ... ] > >> > Other requirements of the standard are, AN310 nuts used in tension, > >>AN320 > >> >nuts used in shear, and all standard Aircraft bolts are Cadmium >plated. > >>One > >> >thing that is not made as clear as it could be is what constitutes the > >>face > >> >bearing area. The head of the bolt and the nut should both bear on a > >> >standard AN960 Washer which is also cadmium plated. This Cadmium >plating > >> >provides the proper and uniform lubricant required to arrive at the > >> >pre-stress requirement consistently. > >> > [ ... snip ... ] > >> > >>Ok ... I'm going to expose my ignorance here, and venture a question >that > >>has bugged me. I also had originally been under the impression that a > >>washer should go under both the head and the nut, but many of the >hardware > >>callouts on Van's plans indicate no washer for the head of the bolt. >What > >>is a poor builder to do? Go with "standard practice", or "do what the > >>designer says"? > >> > >>And if I do add a washer where none was specified, I assume that you >might > >>have to adjust the selection of bolt such that the grip length is right > >>(i.e. that no threads are actually inside the joint). > >> > >>So far, I've been "doing what the designer says", but I *have* wondered > >>about this. Opinions? (Like this group doesn't have opinions!) > >> > >> -- Dwight > >> RV-7 / Working on QB fuse > >> Waiting on Dynon heated pitot (darn it) > >> do not archive > >> > >> > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:33:50 PM PST US From: "David Carter" Subject: Re: RV-List: Freight --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" (I found the following e-mail stuck in my "Drafts" folder - dated 2 Dec 2004) Here's my 11 Mar 2004 post to the RV-list: --> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" I signed up on the Freight Quote website last night ( www.freightquote.com ) and entered the 320# wt and 97"X48"X28" of my RV-6 Finish Kit, used "Freight class of 150 (whatever that is). Went thru the "free quote" routine and noted cost - looked good. I got an e-mail last night saying I'd get a call today. This morning I received a call from one of their reps, Jim Siders, 1-800-323-5441, Ext 1812, and we settled on "Van's dock to my residence" for $370 (instead of $395 to a terminal 10 miles away) . Job will be done by Bullet Freight. [I live just south of Beaumont, Texas, 85 mi east of Houston on I10 ] Van's would have used ABF and shipped "Van's to ABF Terminal" 10 miles from my house for $395 and I'd have to scrounge a truck or trailer to pick the crate up at the terminal and unload at my house. So, I save a litle bit in money and save more in time and effort by having it come direct to my home. I would have done terminal to terminal and saved even more except that Bullet has no terminal in my area. The next lowest price from Freight Quote was SAIA. They have a terminal here and would have charged $354 for "Van's to terminal" with me picking up at terminal. Would have saved me only $16 over Bullet bringing it to my door - not worth the extra work by me. I made final payment Monday, Van's was posting payments today, and will put my kit out for crating later today to be ready for pickup next week. Barbara has no problem with us choosing our own shipping company. She just needs a name & number to call to request pickup. I paid Freight Quote today. Very little effort or time spent. David (end of quote of 11 Mar 04 e-mail) The QB fuselage & wings were a long time ago, arranged by my daughter who works for Yellow Freight - gave me a good price - $999.52 in April 1999. She suggests 1-800-610-6500, option 4, ask for 2 quotes, regular & express - express is frequently cheaper. Original idea for Freight Quote was pcondon (next item below) David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "pcondon" Subject: RV-List: RV-List Digest Shipping Heavy stuff - Good idea (Cheap way to ship & Move heavy items) > --> RV-List message posted by: "pcondon" > > I ended up > using Freight Quote to arrange my shipping. . Wylie's number is > 800-323-5441 ext. 1761. If you call him, let him know that Randy Stout told > you about Freight Quote. BTW, I get nothing for this. I just told him that > if I were happy with everything, I would put the word out. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "linn walters" Subject: Re: RV-List: Freight > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > David Carter wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "David Carter" > > > >I've worked with Barbara at Van's twice to arrange my own shipping company > >and rate. There is no problem doing that - you just need to find a shipping > >company that is satisfactory to you and gives you a better rate than the one > >Van's has selected - Barbara has no hesitation using your chosen company. > >I've used two different companies and everything worked out fine. > > > >David Carter > > > So, who did you use, and how did you choose them? > Linn > do not archive ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:31 PM PST US From: "Mark/Micki Phillips" Subject: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" Im getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? Do not archive. Mark Phillips RV-6 Finishing Williamsville,Illinois ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:20 PM PST US Subject: RV-List: Tools for newbies From: j1j2h3@juno.com --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com I was working in my shop the other day and it occurred to my that one of my handiest tools is one that everyone may not know about. It's a Quick Grip Mini Bar Clamp. Mine is made by Vise Grip, but there are cheaper ones available from Harbor Freight and others. As the name indicates, it's a bar clamp, but the clamping mechanism is operated by a pistol grip and has a quick release, so it can be applied or removed quickly, with one hand. The jaws are padded, so it won't damage the finish on what you are clamping. Besides its obvious use of clamping two parts together for gluing, drilling, or whatever, I use it to hold down a thin piece of metal on my drill press table, to keep something from moving around on my work bench when I am working on it, and as a spacer to keep things apart. By wrapping the ends of a piece of rope or nylon strap around the jaws, you can also use it to clamp much larger things, like pulling the leading edge skin on a wing firmly against the ribs. Some makes come with reversible jaws, so you can use them as a spreader as well. They come in various lengths, but I find the 6 inch and 12 inch the handiest for these odd tasks. Jim Hasper - RV-7 Giving new meaning to the term "slow build" Franklin, TN Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:02 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" Listers, In the end you will all do this the way you want and, probably, no two the same way. I won't go into my qualifications, they won' matter in the long run. But, I do feel like I must inject this into the mix in order to keep my conscience clear. Food For Thought If you place all the washers, it would take to place one under the head of all bolts that don't already have one in the whole aircraft, in a bag. How much would it weigh? AN bolts do have an area under the head that insures the corners won't dig in. How sharp is it's edge? Would it make a stress riser? Remove a bolt that doesn't have a washer under it and take a look. Is there a imprint of that area. Al-cad is pretty soft. Bolts that haven't flown yet don't count. Would a properly installed washer eliminate the question of stress risers by distributing the load? Or would that be too much weight? Could I jog off that much weight on a couple early morning runs? For me I know the answer to most of these questions. I'm not saying you will or should come up with the same answers I did. If not we will just have to agree to disagree. John D Heath Point Blank, TX ~75 miles N. of Houston DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:53 PM PST US From: "Martin Hone" Subject: RV-List: Alternator Brace --> RV-List message posted by: "Martin Hone" Thanks to all those that replied, particularly Darrell Morgan, author of the Forum article. Darrell sent a PDF of Van's drawing that depicts the brace between the alternator and starter motor. If any one would like a copy, please email me and I will send you the PDF file Cheers Martin in Oz RV-6 VH-ZMH _____ Block Spam Emails - Click here! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:40 PM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have the room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone else done with it?? Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:03:47 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Dana Overall wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have the > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone else > done with it?? Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:05:49 PM PST US From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" No problem with putting it on the essential bus. It has no energy consumption unless you actuall use the flaps, so if you have an electrical problem and shut down the main bus, the only issue is whether your battery has enough juice left to run the flap motor once you're cleared to land at your destination. I avoided the issue by using manual flaps. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have > the > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone > else > done with it?? > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:37 PM PST US From: "Ralph E. Capen" Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" My AOA display is on the far left of the panel and my brain box is immediately forward of that on the triangular shaped part that goes from the bulkhead forward of the instrument panel through the instrument panel. I built a small mounting bracket to allow maintenance through the removable 'eight-pack' section. Want some pictures? Zap me direct. Ralph Capen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark/Micki Phillips" Subject: RV-List: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > > Im getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was > wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? > Do not archive. > Mark Phillips > RV-6 Finishing > Williamsville,Illinois > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:30:49 PM PST US From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" Dana: I put mine on the E buss. They will not draw any power while in cruise flight and will be available to you on landing. Otherwise, if you really want your flaps and have them on the main buss, you will have to switch on your master halfway through the pattern. Granted, an RV will land just fine without flaps, but since there is no current draw until you use them, why not have them on the E buss? Just my very humble opinion. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P (reserved) baffles Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have > the > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone > else > done with it?? > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:33 PM PST US From: "Jerry Calvert" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Jerry Calvert" Same here...I have the flaps wired to the battery bus (always hot) for those very reasons that Sam mentions. Jerry Calvert N296JC (60 hours) Edmond Ok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > Dana Overall wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using > > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have the > > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone else > > done with it?? > > > Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may > sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the > flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been > shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to > have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. > > This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:48:56 PM PST US From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" Dana, The only thing you have to keep in mind if you put stuff like flaps & fuel pump on the e-bus is total *possible* draw of the e-bus. If you wire it like Bob Nuckolls recommends, providing the "alternate feed" for the e-bus from a fuse on the battery bus, then you have to size that fuse carefully. If I recall, Bob recommends keeping your e-bus consumers to a total of 5 amps or less (I may be off). My e-bus feed fuse is 15A. My normal continuous load is way less than that, but I gave myself the headroom so that if I decide to use bigger consumers on short final (or whatever), the circuit wouldn't be overloaded. If that fuse blows, then you gotta flip the master back on and deal with over-consuming or device-by-device reduction (too much distraction on short final). Anyway, I'm sure you're already thinking about this. I just wanted to give a heads-up that if you pile heavier consumers onto the e-bus, give the feed wiring & thus the fuse some headroom. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Orear" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > Dana: > > I put mine on the E buss. They will not draw any power while in cruise > flight and will be available to you on landing. Otherwise, if you really > want your flaps and have them on the main buss, you will have to switch on > your master halfway through the pattern. > > Granted, an RV will land just fine without flaps, but since there is no > current draw until you use them, why not have them on the E buss? > > Just my very humble opinion. > > Regards, > > Jeff Orear > RV6A N782P (reserved) > baffles > Peshtigo, WI > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dana Overall" > To: > Subject: RV-List: Flaps > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am using > > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have > > the > > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone > > else > > done with it?? > > > > > > Dana Overall > > Richmond, KY i39 > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > > Finish kit > > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > > do not archive > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:47 PM PST US From: Tedd McHenry Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: Tedd McHenry A very informative site, for those interested in bolted joints, is www.boltscience.com. Caveat: this site is about industrial bolt applications, so many devices and techniques are discussed that aren't appropriate for aircraft. But there's lots of interesting and informative theory about bolted joints. I did not, however, find an answer to the question of washers under bolt heads there. Another good source of information is "Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook," available at amazon.com. This is mainly a car-racing book, but it's all about aircraft fasteners and plumbing hardware (which is what smart racers use). If you enjoy Carroll Smith's fasteners book, you may also enjoy his book "Engineer to Win," which is full of all sorts of interesting mechanical engineering theory that applies to airplanes. --- Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:29 PM PST US From: "John D. Heath" Subject: RV-List: Washers and bolts --> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" TWIMC, AC 43.13-1B, paragraph 7-86 says "... Cadmium-plated steel warshers are recommended for use under boltheads and nuts used on aluminum alloy or magnesium structures to prevent corrision. ...". That's a pretty good reason too. John D.