---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/09/05: 42 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:09 AM - Electrical feeds...was Flaps (Dana Overall) 2. 05:11 AM - Re: Electrical feeds...was Flaps (Mickey Coggins) 3. 05:12 AM - Re: Washers and bolts (linn walters) 4. 05:32 AM - Re: (Charles Rowbotham) 5. 05:46 AM - Re: Flaps (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 6. 05:59 AM - SUBJECT please (Bryan Jones) 7. 06:02 AM - Re: Flaps (Bryan Jones) 8. 06:22 AM - Re: Re: Flaps (Bobby Hester) 9. 06:30 AM - Garmin manuals (Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR) 10. 06:31 AM - Re: Flaps (cgalley) 11. 06:48 AM - Re: Garmin manuals (Larry Bowen) 12. 07:11 AM - Re: Flaps (DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com) 13. 07:17 AM - Re: Garmin manuals (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 14. 07:20 AM - Re: Garmin manuals (Aircraft Technical Book Company) 15. 07:24 AM - Re: Flaps (Sam Buchanan) 16. 07:25 AM - Re: Flaps (Sam Buchanan) 17. 07:29 AM - Re: Confused About Torque Specifications (Dwight Frye) 18. 08:01 AM - Re: Flaps (cgalley) 19. 08:16 AM - Re: Flaps (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 20. 09:27 AM - Re: Flaps (Paul Besing) 21. 09:52 AM - Re: Flaps (Bryan Jones) 22. 10:39 AM - Re: Washers and bolts (Skylor Piper) 23. 11:22 AM - Re: Washers and bolts (Mike Robertson) 24. 12:29 PM - Re: Flaps (Hopperdhh@aol.com) 25. 12:36 PM - Re: (HCRV6@aol.com) 26. 12:39 PM - Re: Flaps (HCRV6@aol.com) 27. 12:44 PM - Re: Flaps (Sam Buchanan) 28. 12:45 PM - Re: Re: Flaps (Bobby Hester) 29. 12:59 PM - Re: Flaps (Sam Buchanan) 30. 03:21 PM - Re: Flaps (LARRY ADAMSON) 31. 04:28 PM - Alternator (Dana Overall) 32. 05:58 PM - Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question (Scott Vanartsdalen) 33. 05:59 PM - Re: Alternator (Ed Anderson) 34. 06:22 PM - Re: Electrical feeds...was Flaps (Ed Holyoke) 35. 06:25 PM - Re: Alternator (William Gill) 36. 06:48 PM - Re: SUBJECT please (Charles Rowbotham) 37. 06:52 PM - Re: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question (Dan Brown) 38. 07:01 PM - Re: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question (Ed Holyoke) 39. 08:16 PM - Re: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question (Mark Grieve) 40. 10:04 PM - Safety Notice - Verify Proper Flap Hinge Pin Installation () 41. 10:21 PM - Re: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question (Scott VanArtsdalen) 42. 10:44 PM - Re: Safety Notice - Verify Proper Flap Hinge Pin Installation (GMC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:09:45 AM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Electrical feeds...was Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" Interesting points about coming off the battery bus, now to again show my total electrical ignorance. As my signature line shows, I am using a rotary 13B. In doing so I will have dual injecters, dual electric fuel pumps and Tracy's electronic engine control system. I don't have a second mechanical "fire" source or mechanical fuel pump (oh, man I'm building a death trap!!) Bear with me now. My battery bus feed comes off the positive terminal of the battery. My main bus is fed from the switched side of the battery contactor. My alternator is attached inline using BC inline ANL to that same switched side of the battery contactor. All of what I have to say is trying to avoid using two batteries. It has been mentioned to put everything above on the battery bus. Nah, as a single point failure of the battery post turns me into a glider. So I guess here is the uninformed question. If the positive battery post falls off, rendering my battery bus inop, will the alternator continue to produce usable power to that switched side (merely in contact with my main bus feed line, not through the contactor) of the battery contactor, thus supplying my main bus/essential bus through the diode, with power. If it does, this provides me with an option other than a second battery. Big question, will the alternator do what I want it to do without the positive side of the battery connected? The big reason I ask is I had a direct short of the generator in my old Bonanza and the battery got switched offline before the generator did. You can guess what happened with all that "excess" juice. The avionic shops loved getting all that avionic work!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:17 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical feeds...was Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi Dana, I'd ask over on the aeroelectric list. I'm also building an electrically dependent engine, but I'll have two batteries, just in case. Like you, I'm not worried about the battery itself failing, but some mechanical failure somewhere down the line. That's why I have two batteries. Here is my diagram, if you are interested. http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story=20041121101637759 Mickey Dana Overall wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > Interesting points about coming off the battery bus, now to again show my > total electrical ignorance. > > As my signature line shows, I am using a rotary 13B. In doing so I will > have dual injecters, dual electric fuel pumps and Tracy's electronic engine > control system. I don't have a second mechanical "fire" source or > mechanical fuel pump (oh, man I'm building a death trap!!) Bear with me now. > My battery bus feed comes off the positive terminal of the battery. My > main bus is fed from the switched side of the battery contactor. My > alternator is attached inline using BC inline ANL to that same switched side > of the battery contactor. All of what I have to say is trying to avoid > using two batteries. It has been mentioned to put everything above on the > battery bus. Nah, as a single point failure of the battery post turns me > into a glider. > > So I guess here is the uninformed question. If the positive battery post > falls off, rendering my battery bus inop, will the alternator continue to > produce usable power to that switched side (merely in contact with my main > bus feed line, not through the contactor) of the battery contactor, thus > supplying my main bus/essential bus through the diode, with power. If it > does, this provides me with an option other than a second battery. > > Big question, will the alternator do what I want it to do without the > positive side of the battery connected? The big reason I ask is I had a > direct short of the generator in my old Bonanza and the battery got switched > offline before the generator did. You can guess what happened with all that > "excess" juice. The avionic shops loved getting all that avionic work!! > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:55 AM PST US From: linn walters Subject: Re: RV-List: Washers and bolts --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters John D. Heath wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > >TWIMC, > AC 43.13-1B, paragraph 7-86 says "... Cadmium-plated steel warshers are recommended for use under boltheads and nuts used on aluminum alloy or magnesium structures to prevent corrision. ...". That's a pretty good reason too. > > John D. > But if the bolt and nut is already cad plated ....... why? It's 'Das Feds' again!!! And it doesn't say 'under both'???? Linn do not archive > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:58 AM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Hi Mark, We mounted ours behind the instrument panel (centered) and attached to the rear of the forward baggage compartment. Chuck 7 Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Mark/Micki Phillips" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:30:09 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > >Im getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was >wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? >Do not archive. >Mark Phillips >RV-6 Finishing >Williamsville,Illinois > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:17 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/05 12:52:25 AM Central Standard Time, bo124rs@hotmail.com writes: > What's everyone else > done with it?? >>>> One thought- if it were on your main and for whatever reason it began to runaway, you could kill the master and continue on with the e-bus. Good reason to have trims & autopilots on main as well. You'd normally only use it once in the pattern when you would get it back back by re-engaging the master (assuming alternator-out ops.), although doing a no-flap landing would maybe be a better option if the batt was really low. Running the flap motor could drop bus voltage enough to lose stuff ya might need in the pattern, such a your radio, again depending on battery snort remaining... Is your main bus full? You might consider moving some very-low draw component to your e-bus instead. From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:59:34 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: RV-List: SUBJECT please --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" OK - my day to be list police. Be courteous and use the subject line. Please! Bryan do not archive >--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" > >Hi Mark, > >We mounted ours behind the instrument panel (centered) and attached to the >rear of the forward baggage compartment. > >Chuck 7 Dave Rowbotham >RV-8A > > >From: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:30:09 -0600 > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > > > >Im getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was > >wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? > >Do not archive. > >Mark Phillips > >RV-6 Finishing > >Williamsville,Illinois > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:45 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" Always hot? Very interesting idea. I can see the benefits. Only thing that comes to mind is all these spontaneous Ford automobile combustion cases that have been occurring lately. Any concern about that kind of thing? Bryan -8 Houston > >Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may >sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the >flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been >shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to >have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. > >This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. > >Sam Buchanan > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:42 AM PST US From: "Bobby Hester" Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" > -----Original Message----- > From: "Jeff Orear" > To: > Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:29 (CDT) > Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > Dana: > > I put mine on the E buss. They will not draw any power while in cruise > flight and will be available to you on landing. Otherwise, if you really > want your flaps and have them on the main buss, you will have to switch on > your master halfway through the pattern. > > Granted, an RV will land just fine without flaps, but since there is no > current draw until you use them, why not have them on the E buss? > > Just my very humble opinion. > After reading Sam's reply I beleive the best place is on the battery bus. I can see how you would need to raise and lower the flaps alot before and after shut down. I think I change mine tonight. ------- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:21 AM PST US From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Subject: RV-List: Garmin manuals --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Mike & Listers, I'm trying to find an electronic version of the SL10 Installation manual. Mike's list didn't include it, and I haven't been able to find it on the Garmin site. Does anyone have a copy? ====================================== Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV phone: (860)727-2393 fax: (860)998-9396 email: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com Message: #124797 Subject: more Garmin Appolo Manual Downloads From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" < mstewart@iss.net > Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the appolo site down. I got a file from him like sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit by a bus. http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append the filename to the url above and you will have it. Enjoy, Mike Stewart MX20_InstallationManual.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf ...... ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:50 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" Any wiring direct circumvents the safety aspect of having a master switch. Shorts can and do happen. Aluminum airplanes do catch fire from such shorts. Not much left when that happens. Why take the chance? Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" > > Dana, > > The only thing you have to keep in mind if you put stuff like flaps & fuel > pump on the e-bus is total *possible* draw of the e-bus. If you wire it > like Bob Nuckolls recommends, providing the "alternate feed" for the e-bus > from a fuse on the battery bus, then you have to size that fuse carefully. > > If I recall, Bob recommends keeping your e-bus consumers to a total of 5 > amps or less (I may be off). My e-bus feed fuse is 15A. My normal > continuous load is way less than that, but I gave myself the headroom so > that if I decide to use bigger consumers on short final (or whatever), the > circuit wouldn't be overloaded. If that fuse blows, then you gotta flip the > master back on and deal with over-consuming or device-by-device reduction > (too much distraction on short final). > > Anyway, I'm sure you're already thinking about this. I just wanted to give > a heads-up that if you pile heavier consumers onto the e-bus, give the feed > wiring & thus the fuse some headroom. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Orear" > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Orear" > > > > Dana: > > > > I put mine on the E buss. They will not draw any power while in cruise > > flight and will be available to you on landing. Otherwise, if you really > > want your flaps and have them on the main buss, you will have to switch on > > your master halfway through the pattern. > > > > Granted, an RV will land just fine without flaps, but since there is no > > current draw until you use them, why not have them on the E buss? > > > > Just my very humble opinion. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff Orear > > RV6A N782P (reserved) > > baffles > > Peshtigo, WI > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dana Overall" > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Flaps > > > > > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > > > > OK gang, here we go again. I'm wiring up the flaps right now. I am > using > > > the 'Lectric Bob technique with battery, main and essential bus. I was > > > going to just wire up the flap motor to the main bus and go on but have > > > the > > > room on the essential. I know it is a personnal decision but what about > > > pros and cons to just "sticking" it on the essential?? What's everyone > > > else > > > done with it?? > > > > > > > > > Dana Overall > > > Richmond, KY i39 > > > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > > > Finish kit > > > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > > > do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:43 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin manuals From: "Larry Bowen" --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Look under "discontinued" http://www.garmin.com/support/userManual.jsp - Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR said: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" > > > Mike & Listers, > > I'm trying to find an electronic version of the SL10 Installation > manual. > Mike's list didn't include it, and I haven't been able to find it on the > Garmin site. Does anyone have a copy? > > ====================================== > Fred Stucklen > RV-6A N926RV > phone: (860)727-2393 > fax: (860)998-9396 > email: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com > > > Message: > > #124797 > > Subject: more Garmin Appolo Manual > anuals?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=14?SERIAL=06050918430?SHOWBUTTONS=NO> > Downloads > > Date: Sep 19, 2004 > From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" < mstewart@iss.net > > > > > Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found > by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the > scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some > file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill > try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But > for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its > in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference > Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds > of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have > wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals > which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to > get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in > case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the > appolo site down. I got a file from him like > sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that > filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit > by a bus. > > http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these > files below. So if you are > looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append > the filename to the url above and you will have it. > Enjoy, > Mike Stewart > > MX20_InstallationManual.pdf > SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf > ...... > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:14 AM PST US From: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/2005 7:47:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, Fiveonepw@aol.com writes: One thought- if it were on your main and for whatever reason it began to runaway, you could kill the master and continue on with the e-bus. Good reason to have trims & autopilots on main as well. Why not just pull the circuit breaker? Doug RV7 BHM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: Garmin manuals From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Using the logic of the download center I was able to find it here: http://www.garmin.com/manuals/SL10AudioPanel_InstallationManual.pdf enjoy. Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR Subject: RV-List: Garmin manuals --> RV-List message posted by: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" Mike & Listers, I'm trying to find an electronic version of the SL10 Installation manual. Mike's list didn't include it, and I haven't been able to find it on the Garmin site. Does anyone have a copy? ====================================== Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV phone: (860)727-2393 fax: (860)998-9396 email: fred.stucklen@utcfuelcells.com Message: #124797 Subject: more Garmin Appolo Manual Downloads From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" < mstewart@iss.net > Here are some more(added the first few here below) manuals popular found by JB. You will notice by looking at the file names and using the scheme, that you can find just about anything you are looking for. Some file names are not intuitive like GPS165TSODzusRail_PilotsGuide.pdf. Ill try and work on getting the entire directory of everything possible. But for now, this is a really good list. Old and new, popular in junk. Its in there. STC, pilot Guide, Supplemental Flight Manual, Quick Reference Guide, Pilots Guide, Installation Manual, Training Syllabus, all kinds of very useful stuff in there. Just think about how many times you have wanted a manual and could not find it. Especially installation manuals which they seem to keep tight reign on. I ran a job from the office to get all of these, yes every one, so Ill keep them somewhere just in case they disappear. Another fella did that right before they took the appolo site down. I got a file from him like sl40_install_560-0956-03a.pdf. I mean how would you ever figure out that filename? So I hope to have these stashed just in case GArmin gets hit by a bus. http://www.garmin.com/manuals/ these files below. So if you are looking for a manual, just search this list (ex. Ctl-f 430) and append the filename to the url above and you will have it. Enjoy, Mike Stewart MX20_InstallationManual.pdf SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf ...... ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:20:43 AM PST US From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin manuals --> RV-List message posted by: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" We are supposed to be national distributors for an aftermarket Garmin 430 training manual called Goal-Page-Set. Our first batch of inventory should be here by late next week. I haven't even seen this book yet, but we are good friends with the authors, and I know the initial manuscripts have gotten excellent reviews from AOPA. I think it was in the last issue of AOPA Flight Instructor. You can read a preliminary write-up on it in our PilotsBooks catalog in the navigation section. I'll post more when our actual inventory comes in the door. Andy Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com PilotsBooks www.Pilotsbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:24:44 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan cgalley wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > Any wiring direct circumvents the safety aspect of having a master switch. > > Shorts can and do happen. Aluminum airplanes do catch fire from such > shorts. > > Not much left when that happens. > > Why take the chance? > > Cy Galley > EAA Safety Programs Editor > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot Cy, I think we are all working under the assumption that "hot" devices have their own fuse or breaker. The feed for the flaps on my plane has an inline fuse at the battery. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:16 AM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Bryan Jones wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > > Always hot? Very interesting idea. I can see the benefits. Only thing that > comes to mind is all these spontaneous Ford automobile combustion cases that > have been occurring lately. Any concern about that kind of thing? > > Bryan -8 > Houston None. The feed to the flaps is fused at the battery. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:52 AM PST US From: Dwight Frye Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused About Torque Specifications --> RV-List message posted by: Dwight Frye On Wed Feb 9 00:33:47 2005, Tedd McHenry wrote : >A very informative site, for those interested in bolted joints, is >www.boltscience.com. Caveat: this site is about industrial bolt applications, >so many devices and techniques are discussed that aren't appropriate for >aircraft. But there's lots of interesting and informative theory about bolted >joints. I did not, however, find an answer to the question of washers under >bolt heads there. > >Another good source of information is "Carroll Smith's Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners >and Plumbing Handbook," available at amazon.com. This is mainly a car-racing >book, but it's all about aircraft fasteners and plumbing hardware (which is >what smart racers use). I want to put in a plug for this book as well. My wife thought I was a bit nuts (pun intended) reading it cover to cover like it was an engaging novel. I'll have to go back and see if he says anything about washers under bolt heads sometime soon. :) >If you enjoy Carroll Smith's fasteners book, you may also enjoy his book >"Engineer to Win," which is full of all sorts of interesting mechanical >engineering theory that applies to airplanes. Thanks for the recommendation. Based on how much I enjoyed his fasteners book, I'll have to get this one too. -- Dwight do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:01:20 AM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" Sorry Sam, I missed that one! When one assumes..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > cgalley wrote: > > --> RV-List message posted by: "cgalley" > > > > Any wiring direct circumvents the safety aspect of having a master switch. > > > > Shorts can and do happen. Aluminum airplanes do catch fire from such > > shorts. > > > > Not much left when that happens. > > > > Why take the chance? > > > > Cy Galley > > EAA Safety Programs Editor > > Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot > > > Cy, I think we are all working under the assumption that "hot" devices > have their own fuse or breaker. The feed for the flaps on my plane has > an inline fuse at the battery. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:53 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/05 9:12:51 AM Central Standard Time, DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes: > Why not just pull the circuit breaker? >>> How's your reaction time? My master is right in front of the stick and I'm programmed to punch it (rocker switch) immediately if anything misbehaves. (strictly VFR) Engaging the e-bus gives me back the important stuff (engine monitor, radios, EFIS etc.) Besides, the only breaker in my plane is the alternator field lead per Aeroelectric Z-11. All else is fused from a fairly difficult to reach fuse block. You could always put the feed for flaps & trims on a disconnect, (or locate and pull the correct breaker, if applicable) but I prefer KISS. Mark -6A N51PW, 150 hours ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:06 AM PST US From: "Paul Besing" Subject: RE: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Paul Besing" Case in point why I like breakers. Not that I want to reset a breaker in flight (something caused it to pop, so don't mess with it). But, when I am trying to isolate problems, shut something down, it's nice to just pull a breaker or two. Plus when something fails, it's easy to see that the breaker popped. Just personal preference. Bob's method make sense, but something about being to pull a breaker to cut something off makes more sense to me. This is exactly why newer Cessnas have a Klixon pull type breaker on the autopilot. That thing runs away and the a/p disconnect doesn't work, I'm pulling the breaker! Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon Kitlog Builder's Software www.kitlog.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 2/9/05 9:12:51 AM Central Standard Time, DOUGPFLYRV@aol.com writes: > Why not just pull the circuit breaker? >>> How's your reaction time? My master is right in front of the stick and I'm programmed to punch it (rocker switch) immediately if anything misbehaves. (strictly VFR) Engaging the e-bus gives me back the important stuff (engine monitor, radios, EFIS etc.) Besides, the only breaker in my plane is the alternator field lead per Aeroelectric Z-11. All else is fused from a fairly difficult to reach fuse block. You could always put the feed for flaps & trims on a disconnect, (or locate and pull the correct breaker, if applicable) but I prefer KISS. Mark -6A N51PW, 150 hours ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:52:45 AM PST US From: "Bryan Jones" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" I would imagine the Ford cruise control circuitry is fused as well, but not positive, er, certain. ;) Bryan do not archive > >None. The feed to the flaps is fused at the battery. > >Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:49 AM PST US From: Skylor Piper Subject: Re: RV-List: Washers and bolts --> RV-List message posted by: Skylor Piper Quoting the entire AC43.13-1B may provide a little better context to the washer argument: 7-86. PLAIN WASHERS (AN960 AND AN970). Plain washers are widely used with hex nuts to provide a smooth bearing surface, act as a shim to obtain the proper grip length, and to position castellated nuts in relation to drilled cotter pin holes in bolts. Use plain washers under lock washers to prevent damage to bearing surfaces. Cadmium-plated steel washers are recommended for use under boltheads and nuts used on aluminum alloy or magnesium structures to prevent corrosion. The AN970 steel washer provides a larger bearing surface than the plain type, and is often used in wooden structures under boltheads and nuts to prevent local crushing of the surface. To me, this indicates that AN960 washers are typically used under HEX NUTS. However, the paragraph that is quoted is in reference to using cad plated washer VS unplated washers. Just my interpretation. Skylor RV-8 QB, under construction. DO NOT ARCHIVE --- linn walters wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > > > John D. Heath wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > > >TWIMC, > > AC 43.13-1B, paragraph 7-86 says "... > Cadmium-plated steel warshers are recommended for > use under boltheads and nuts used on aluminum alloy > or magnesium structures to prevent corrision. ...". > That's a pretty good reason too. > > > > John D. > > > But if the bolt and nut is already cad plated > ....... why? It's 'Das > Feds' again!!! And it doesn't say 'under both'???? > Linn > do not archive > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:33 AM PST US From: "Mike Robertson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Washers and bolts --> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" The main reason is that as you tighten the nuts and/or bolts some of the cadmium is scratched off. Adding a washer does two things. Its protects the aluminum from being gouged and somewhat protects the cadmium plating from being scratched off. Another line of corrosion defense. Mike Robertson >From: linn walters >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Washers and bolts >Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 08:12:59 -0500 > >--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters > >John D. Heath wrote: > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "John D. Heath" > > > >TWIMC, > > AC 43.13-1B, paragraph 7-86 says "... Cadmium-plated steel warshers >are recommended for use under boltheads and nuts used on aluminum alloy or >magnesium structures to prevent corrision. ...". That's a pretty good >reason too. > > > > John D. > > >But if the bolt and nut is already cad plated ....... why? It's 'Das >Feds' again!!! And it doesn't say 'under both'???? >Linn >do not archive > > > > > > > > > > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:29:39 PM PST US From: Hopperdhh@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com One thing to keep in mind about having any electrical circuit hot all the time is the possibility of shorts due to "growth" of oxide "whiskers." Silver is especially notorious for this. Copper can also grow oxides and sulfides with voltage applied 24/7. Any time moisture is present, the constant voltage promotes leakage currents which can add up to several milliamps and drain your battery. These effects get worse after time when things get dirty. I know that there are many circuits in automobiles that are hot all the time, and that's where the troubles start. All the above are good reasons to switch everything off with a master relay. Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying since last July) In a message dated 2/9/05 9:04:02 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, rv_8pilot@hotmail.com writes: Always hot? Very interesting idea. I can see the benefits. Only thing that comes to mind is all these spontaneous Ford automobile combustion cases that have been occurring lately. Any concern about that kind of thing? Bryan -8 Houston > >Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may >sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the >flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been >shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to >have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. > >This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. > >Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:50 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com In a message dated 2/8/05 10:45:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, mphill@gcctv.com writes: << I'm getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? >> FWIW I mounted mine on the top sloping surface of the recess box in the firewall (inside). I made a mounting plate of 0.032 Al. with a short lower lip and installed it with 1/4 inch standoffs to protect the brain box from firewall heat. I mounted the brainbox to the plate using industrial strength Velcro strips and added a large tie wrap for extra security (belt and suspenders). Seems to be working fine and is fairly easy to get to if necessary. Tip: check the volume before finally securing everything. Mine almost blew me out of the cabin the first time I tried it. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying! ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:09 PM PST US From: HCRV6@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: HCRV6@aol.com Mine's on the main bus. I don't see anything wrong with putting it on the essential bus if you have extra fuses there and not on the main. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, flying! ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:44:46 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com > > > One thing to keep in mind about having any electrical circuit hot all the > time is the possibility of shorts due to "growth" of oxide "whiskers." Silver > is especially notorious for this. Copper can also grow oxides and sulfides > with voltage applied 24/7. Any time moisture is present, the constant > voltage promotes leakage currents which can add up to several milliamps and drain > your battery. These effects get worse after time when things get dirty. > > I know that there are many circuits in automobiles that are hot all the > time, and that's where the troubles start. > > All the above are good reasons to switch everything off with a master relay. > > Dan Hopper > Walton, IN > RV-7A (Flying since last July) A *bunch* of RVs have "hot" circuits. Anyone who has the very popular wiring architecture by Bob Nuckolls (Aeroelectric Connection) has an essential bus feed that is hooked directly to the battery and runs back to the panel. The feed is protected by either a fuse or a fusible link but it is hot all the time. Also, there are many electronic gizmos in our modern panels that have "keep alive" feeds. My iPAQ, digital clock, Dynon, uMonitor all have keep alive feeds in order to either charge backup batteries or retain memory data. With more and and more digital stuff being put in panels, it seems keep alive circuits are here to stay! Make sure the wiring to all the devices is protected and we should be able to sleep easy at night. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:45:43 PM PST US From: "Bobby Hester" Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Buchanan > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 21:02 (CDT) > Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps > > --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan > > > Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may > sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the > flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been > shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to > have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. > > This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. > > Sam Buchanan > Sam did you add any kind of limit switches on your flaps? Are they needed? ------- Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:59:05 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Bobby Hester wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: "Bobby Hester" > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Sam Buchanan >>To: rv-list@matronics.com >>Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 21:02 (CDT) >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps >> >>--> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan >> >> >>Dana, I have the flaps wired "hot all the time". I realize this may >>sound a bit odd but I find it very convenient to be able to raise the >>flaps prior to engine start and lower them after everything has been >>shut down. There are other times (maintenance) when it is convenient to >>have the flaps operational without turning on the master switch. >> >>This may or may not be a good idea for you but it works great for me. >> >>Sam Buchanan >> > > > Sam did you add any kind of limit switches on your flaps? Are they needed? Bobby, no limit switches installed and they are not needed in my opinion. The flap mechanism has some sort of clutch that releases when the flaps hit the limits and the motor just freewheels. But....I guess if the flap switch shorted out the flap motor would continue to run until.......well....I guess until it died or you could get on the ground and yank the fuse! :-) It seems to me chances of a switch failure would be quite remote as long as we use high-quality switches. Sam Buchanan ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:32 PM PST US From: "LARRY ADAMSON" Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "LARRY ADAMSON" ----- Original Message ----- From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps A *bunch* of RVs have "hot" circuits. Anyone who has the very popular wiring architecture by Bob Nuckolls (Aeroelectric Connection) has an essential bus feed that is hooked directly to the battery and runs back to the panel. The feed is protected by either a fuse or a fusible link but it is hot all the time. The Bob Nuckolls circuit that I used, has a switch between the battery and essential buss. The switch is rated for the essential buss load. When this switch is off, the essential buss gets it's power from the main buss, and is protected with a diode, when the main buss is off& essential is switched on. At the moment, only my clock runs directly off the battery. BTW-- as to runaway trims, I have a trim disconnect switch, as well as a push/pull circuit breaker for aileron & elevator. If worse goes to worse, hit the trim disconnect then take the offending servo/wire off line ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:28:07 PM PST US From: "Dana Overall" Subject: RV-List: Alternator --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" If you loses the positive post on the battery will the alternator still provide juice? Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 05:58:47 PM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I have a question for any electricians out there. I have a generator with a 220 twist lock socket that has four prongs. My air compressor only has three wires. I have a 4 prong 220 plug which has terminals labeled X, Y, G(reen) and (I can't remember the other one.) I only have a white, black, and green wire. Any idea if I can make this work or not? -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:49 PM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternator --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Dana, An automobile alternator with internal regulator will do just that. You initially need voltage to the field coil of the alternator to "boot strap" the alternator into starting to produce voltage - but once that happens you can remove the wire to the field coil and the alternator will continue to produce voltage - at least until you kill the engine. That is why most aircraft alternators have external regulators which you can stop the alternator operation by removing the voltage to the field coil (pulling a circuit breaker or using the alternator part of the split Master switch). I found this out when I pull the circuit breaker on my alternator (auto) while the engine was running - it continued to produce voltage like nothing had changed. Now if the circuit breaker is pulled before engine start then the alternator will not produce voltage because it never gets the "boot strap" voltage from the battery to get started. Ed Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC > --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" > > > If you loses the positive post on the battery will the alternator still > provide juice? > > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > Finish kit > 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg > http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg > do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:33 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Electrical feeds...was Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Dana, The battery acts as a stabilizing load on the alternator. Without it, strange things can happen to the charging system voltage if the regulator gets into a sort of PIO. Once, a kind gentleman who was giving my wife's Nissan a jump start unhooked the battery so that it wouldn't suck up all the juice from the jump and it blew up the radio after it started. I arrived just in time to see the radio smoking and turned it off. Weather you run everything directly off the battery post or through the contactor or the E-bus, you still have a single point of failure at either the positive or negative battery post. Battery posts usually don't fall off, but who knows? They may well corrode and leave you without juice when you need it. Maintenance cures that one, but then again, the ughknown has been known to occur. I still think that, if you have an electrically dependant engine, you should have two sources of battery energy. The second battery wouldn't necessarily have to be very big, just sized large enough to still have something in it when you run out of fuel. Pax, Ed Holyoke Building an all electric RV-6 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: Electrical feeds...was Flaps --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" Interesting points about coming off the battery bus, now to again show my total electrical ignorance. As my signature line shows, I am using a rotary 13B. In doing so I will have dual injecters, dual electric fuel pumps and Tracy's electronic engine control system. I don't have a second mechanical "fire" source or mechanical fuel pump (oh, man I'm building a death trap!!) Bear with me now. My battery bus feed comes off the positive terminal of the battery. My main bus is fed from the switched side of the battery contactor. My alternator is attached inline using BC inline ANL to that same switched side of the battery contactor. All of what I have to say is trying to avoid using two batteries. It has been mentioned to put everything above on the battery bus. Nah, as a single point failure of the battery post turns me into a glider. So I guess here is the uninformed question. If the positive battery post falls off, rendering my battery bus inop, will the alternator continue to produce usable power to that switched side (merely in contact with my main bus feed line, not through the contactor) of the battery contactor, thus supplying my main bus/essential bus through the diode, with power. If it does, this provides me with an option other than a second battery. Big question, will the alternator do what I want it to do without the positive side of the battery connected? The big reason I ask is I had a direct short of the generator in my old Bonanza and the battery got switched offline before the generator did. You can guess what happened with all that "excess" juice. The avionic shops loved getting all that avionic work!! Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:30 PM PST US From: "William Gill" Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternator --> RV-List message posted by: "William Gill" A lot of juice!!!...... protect for an over-voltage condition. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall Subject: RV-List: Alternator --> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall" If you loses the positive post on the battery will the alternator still provide juice? Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:33 PM PST US From: "Charles Rowbotham" Subject: RE: RV-List: SUBJECT please --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" Bryan, You are absolutely correct - I Should have updated the subject line. Thanks, Chuck Rowbotham >From: "Bryan Jones" >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com >To: rv-list@matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: SUBJECT please >Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 07:56:32 -0600 > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Bryan Jones" > >OK - my day to be list police. Be courteous and use the subject line. >Please! > >Bryan >do not archive > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" > > > > >Hi Mark, > > > >We mounted ours behind the instrument panel (centered) and attached to >the > >rear of the forward baggage compartment. > > > >Chuck 7 Dave Rowbotham > >RV-8A > > > > >From: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > > >Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com > > >To: > > >Subject: RV-List: Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 19:30:09 -0600 > > > > > >--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark/Micki Phillips" > > > > > >Im getting ready to install the brainbox for the PSS AOA system and was > > >wondering where everyone has been placing theirs? > > >Do not archive. > > >Mark Phillips > > >RV-6 Finishing > > >Williamsville,Illinois > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:24 PM PST US From: Dan Brown Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: Dan Brown -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scott Vanartsdalen wrote: | only has three wires. I have a 4 prong 220 plug which has terminals | labeled X, Y, G(reen) and (I can't remember the other one.) I only | have a white, black, and green wire. Any idea if I can make this | work or not? Two of the terminals on the plug are probably brass, a third is silver, and the fourth is green. If the compressor motor is 220V, the black and white wires will go to the two brass terminals, the green wire to the green terminal, and nothing to the silver terminal. - -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan@familybrown.org "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." ~ -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFCCsyEyQGUivXxtkERAtgaAKDW2iIzhttdSDDJKWh4mczrRB5iyQCg63RT fJB0Cji7L+FQfLXomNiJjs0=liee -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:08 PM PST US From: "Ed Holyoke" Subject: RE: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" Scott, Household 220 is made up of two 110v legs of opposite polarity. One is pushing while the other pulls and they reverse 60 times a second. Fire off your generator and test (with a wiggy or an AC voltmeter) the prongs on your plug. If one prong of your generator shows 110 when tested to ground (or green) and another prong does the same, test from one prong to the other. If they are of the same polarity, you get nothing. If they are opposite you get 220v. They'll probably be the X and Y prongs. Those two legs would be hooked to the black and white wires from your compressor (doesn't matter which). Greens would be hooked to each other. The fourth prong should be neutral (white when wiring for 110v), which will act just like ground. Ignore this prong. You only need it if you are setting up two 110v circuits. Check the wiring diagram on your compressor motor. Some of them can be wired for 110 or 220 by moving some connectors. Make sure that the motor is wired for 220 B4 hooking it up that way! Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen I have a question for any electricians out there. I have a generator with a 220 twist lock socket that has four prongs. My air compressor only has three wires. I have a 4 prong 220 plug which has terminals labeled X, Y, G(reen) and (I can't remember the other one.) I only have a white, black, and green wire. Any idea if I can make this work or not? -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:49 PM PST US From: Mark Grieve Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: Mark Grieve Scott, You may want to create a special extension cord to connect the compressor to the generator. This way you can move the compressor back to your garage and you won't have to replace that outlet too. It will also allow use of other 220 tools should the need arise. You will need a 4 prong twist lock plug to go into the generator, a 3 prong socket to match your compressor plug and enough 12-3 wire to get to where you are going. Good wiring advice has already been offered so just follow that. It is best to keep the extension cord short as to avoid excessive voltage drop. Better to run a longer air hose. If you are buying more than a few feet of wire you may want to buy an extension cord and cut off the molded ends. Buying off of the spool is much more expensive per foot. Mark Do not archive Scott Vanartsdalen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen > >I have a question for any electricians out there. I have a generator with a 220 twist lock socket that has four prongs. My air compressor only has three wires. I have a 4 prong 220 plug which has terminals labeled X, Y, G(reen) and (I can't remember the other one.) I only have a white, black, and green wire. Any idea if I can make this work or not? > > >-- >Scott VanArtsdalen >RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! > > When a man does all he can > though it succeeds not well, > blame not him that did it." > -- George Washington > > > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:00 PM PST US From: with HTTP/1.1; Subject: RV-List: Safety Notice - Verify Proper Flap Hinge Pin Installation --> RV-List message posted by: with HTTP/1.1; I purchased an RV8 (about 130h TTAF), and yesterday noticed a problem with my flap hinge installation which could result in nearly complete loss of aileron travel. Please confirm that the following problem doesn't apply to your airplane. The flap hinge pin was cut exactly to the length of the flap hinge, and a hole was cut in the inboard aileron hinge flange to facilitate installation of the flap hinge pin from the outboard side. The flap hinge pin was not secured against movement in either the inboard or outboard direction. After feeling an abnormal "bump" at full aileron deflection, the pin was seen to have moved outboard far enough to interfere with the last few degrees of aileron deflection. Had the pin continued to move outboard, it would have traveled past the aileron hinge flange, and inserted itself INSIDE the aileron itself, limiting the aileron travel to only a very few degrees. Whether or not a pilot could diagnose the problem and then overpower the obstruction I hope we never find out, but it certainly presents the potential to make the airplane almost completely without ailerons. Scott Keadle KRUQ Salisbury, NC N844RF RV-8 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:37 PM PST US From: Scott VanArtsdalen Subject: Re: RV-List: Off topic: 220V Electrical wiring question --> RV-List message posted by: Scott VanArtsdalen Great advice guys! Thanks! Do not archive Scott Vanartsdalen wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen > >I have a question for any electricians out there. I have a generator with a 220 twist lock socket that has four prongs. My air compressor only has three wires. I have a 4 prong 220 plug which has terminals labeled X, Y, G(reen) and (I can't remember the other one.) I only have a white, black, and green wire. Any idea if I can make this work or not? > > >-- >Scott VanArtsdalen >RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! > > When a man does all he can > though it succeeds not well, > blame not him that did it." > -- George Washington > > > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 10:44:13 PM PST US From: GMC Subject: RE: RV-List: Safety Notice - Verify Proper Flap Hinge Pin Installation --> RV-List message posted by: GMC Hi Scott Thanks for the "heads up". If not already fixed you can thread the hole and install a threaded plug (with Locktite) to prevent the hinge pin from coming out again. George in Langley BC. --> RV-List message posted by: with HTTP/1.1; I purchased an RV8 (about 130h TTAF), and yesterday noticed a problem with my flap hinge installation which could result in nearly complete loss of aileron travel. Please confirm that the following problem doesn't apply to your airplane. The flap hinge pin was cut exactly to the length of the flap hinge, and a hole was cut in the inboard aileron hinge flange to facilitate installation of the flap hinge pin from the outboard side. The flap hinge pin was not secured against movement in either the inboard or outboard direction. After feeling an abnormal "bump" at full aileron deflection, the pin was seen to have moved outboard far enough to interfere with the last few degrees of aileron deflection. Had the pin continued to move outboard, it would have traveled past the aileron hinge flange, and inserted itself INSIDE the aileron itself, limiting the aileron travel to only a very few degrees. Whether or not a pilot could diagnose the problem and then overpower the obstruction I hope we never find out, but it certainly presents the potential to make the airplane almost completely without ailerons. Scott Keadle KRUQ Salisbury, NC N844RF RV-8