Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:18 AM - Re: Help Me Spend My Money (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com)
2. 12:25 AM - Re: cleaning fluid for flap motor (Doug Gray)
3. 12:40 AM - Re: Help Me Spend My Money (Doug Gray)
4. 05:23 AM - Re: Help Me Spend My Money (Glen Matejcek)
5. 06:46 AM - Finally, presenting N51PW (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
6. 07:03 AM - Re: Finally, presenting N51PW (Fiveonepw@aol.com)
7. 08:03 AM - Re: Light arobatic instruction (Mike Robertson)
8. 08:46 AM - Wire anchors (Travis Hamblen)
9. 09:06 AM - Re: Wire anchors (Dan Checkoway)
10. 09:21 AM - Re: Wire anchors (Terry Watson)
11. 09:24 AM - Re: Wire anchors (linn walters)
12. 09:28 AM - Source for decals (Richard Suffoletto)
13. 11:41 AM - Help wanted finishing fiberglass, transition training barter (shemp2)
14. 12:10 PM - Re: Wire anchors (James H Nelson)
15. 12:15 PM - Re: Finally, presenting N51PW (Mike Kellems)
16. 12:24 PM - Re: Wire anchors (sportpilot)
17. 12:53 PM - Re: Wire anchors (Charles Rowbotham)
18. 01:26 PM - Re: Source for decals (J. Rion Bourgeois)
19. 02:47 PM - Re: Source for decals (Rick Galati)
20. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: Source for decals (Charles Rowbotham)
21. 04:10 PM - Re: Finally, presenting N51PW (Charles Rowbotham)
22. 04:53 PM - Re: Wire anchors (Bill Dube)
23. 06:36 PM - pourable tank sealant??followup (Charlie England)
24. 07:01 PM - Alodine safety (Brian Kraut)
25. 07:19 PM - hartzell CS props (luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky))
26. 07:46 PM - Re: Alodine safety (Richard E. Tasker)
27. 08:16 PM - Re: pourable tank sealant??followup (Paul Trotter)
28. 09:15 PM - deburring dimpled holes (Harold Roman)
29. 09:28 PM - Re: Wire anchors (Mark Burns)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Help Me Spend My Money |
--> RV-List message posted by:
The only way you can enjoy your current plane or future ones is if you have
peace of mind. So, if your wife expressed interest in going to Fiji, by all
means go there with her, enjoy it thoroughly and come back to enjoy what you
currently have. The more so since your mission profile is VFR plus
aerobatics. None of the other options will significantly add to this.
A. Paint- You can make it into a small ticket item. Maybe even do it
yourself.
B. Lightweight composite c/s prop - you already have a CS Hartzell - sure
would be nice to have an MT 3 blade but is it really a priority?
C. Grand Rapids Tech. EFIS - for long flights OK, for short flights &
aerobatics???
D. FADEC system - nice but is it really necessary??
E. Start on a RV-8 kit - you already have one plane, do you have the time??
What will wife and rest of family say? Do wife and other family members
participate in construction? Anyway, this is really not that big a ticket as
compared to some of the other choices.
I did some aerobatics in a CAP 10 - it had none of the above, yet what a
joy. As I sit and read about all the stuff people put into their planes, I
tend to think that for most there is overkill - lots of bells and whistles
where simple stuff would meet the mission profile just as well.
Michle
RV8 - France
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Lumpkin
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:21 PM
> To: rv-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Help Me Spend My Money
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: Ted Lumpkin <tlump51@sbcglobal.net>
>
> I conducted the first flight of my 10 year RV-4 project last week. N515TL
> (aka - "The Dirty Bird") is now a flying RV. Aerosport Power IO360;
> inverted oil; Hartzell constant speed prop; Navaid autopilot; 1023 lbs.
> empty; un-painted. No squawks. Couldn't be happier with the performance.
> One of the nice things about taking so long to complete the project is
> that you're able to save up a few bucks along the way.
>
> I have a budget for ONE big ticket item this year. I'm interested in
> opinions on these choices:
> A. Paint
> B. Lightweight composite c/s prop
> C. Grand Rapids Tech. EFIS
> D. FADEC system
> E. Start on a RV-8 kit
> F. Take the wife on a trip to Fiji.
>
> BTW, my mission profile is VFR, primarily sport aerobatics and not much
> traveling planned.
>
> Thanks in advance for your advice,
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: cleaning fluid for flap motor |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Vans has a procedure on their website for cleaning up the flap motor. IIIRC it
is in the FAQ
section. It's worth a look.
Doug Gray
Tom Barnes wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Tom Barnes" <skytop@megsinet.net>
>
> List,
> My flap motor is just begining to show intermittent operation after 80+ hours
and I would like to pull it out and do a quick cleaning with some sort of
aerosol cleaning solution, followed by blow-drying with compressed air.
> My first thought was to use something like brake cleaning solvent, but I'm
reluctant because there may be something plastic in the motor that may melt.
Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Barnes -6
> Buffalo Grove, IL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Help Me Spend My Money |
--> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray <dgra1233@bigpond.net.au>
Your wife sees your 'other woman' take flight and make you very happy.... and then
you spend more
money making it look better.
If there has been even a hint of Fiji you have no option but to go. Woe betide
if you don't.
Otherwise make it a surprise trip, that would be an absolute winner.
I know..... there ARE reasons why some of us take 10 years to build.
Doug Gray
owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com wrote:
> --> RV-List message posted by:
>
> The only way you can enjoy your current plane or future ones is if you have
> peace of mind. So, if your wife expressed interest in going to Fiji, by all
> means go there with her, enjoy it thoroughly and come back to enjoy what you
> currently have. The more so since your mission profile is VFR plus
> aerobatics. None of the other options will significantly add to this.
>
> A. Paint- You can make it into a small ticket item. Maybe even do it
> yourself.
> B. Lightweight composite c/s prop - you already have a CS Hartzell - sure
> would be nice to have an MT 3 blade but is it really a priority?
> C. Grand Rapids Tech. EFIS - for long flights OK, for short flights &
> aerobatics???
> D. FADEC system - nice but is it really necessary??
> E. Start on a RV-8 kit - you already have one plane, do you have the time??
> What will wife and rest of family say? Do wife and other family members
> participate in construction? Anyway, this is really not that big a ticket as
> compared to some of the other choices.
>
> I did some aerobatics in a CAP 10 - it had none of the above, yet what a
> joy. As I sit and read about all the stuff people put into their planes, I
> tend to think that for most there is overkill - lots of bells and whistles
> where simple stuff would meet the mission profile just as well.
>
> Michle
> RV8 - France
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Lumpkin
>>Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 9:21 PM
>>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: Help Me Spend My Money
>>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: Ted Lumpkin <tlump51@sbcglobal.net>
>>
>>I conducted the first flight of my 10 year RV-4 project last week. N515TL
>>(aka - "The Dirty Bird") is now a flying RV. Aerosport Power IO360;
>>inverted oil; Hartzell constant speed prop; Navaid autopilot; 1023 lbs.
>>empty; un-painted. No squawks. Couldn't be happier with the performance.
>>One of the nice things about taking so long to complete the project is
>>that you're able to save up a few bucks along the way.
>>
>>I have a budget for ONE big ticket item this year. I'm interested in
>>opinions on these choices:
>>A. Paint
>>B. Lightweight composite c/s prop
>>C. Grand Rapids Tech. EFIS
>>D. FADEC system
>>E. Start on a RV-8 kit
>>F. Take the wife on a trip to Fiji.
>>
>>BTW, my mission profile is VFR, primarily sport aerobatics and not much
>>traveling planned.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for your advice,
>>
>>Ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE: Help Me Spend My Money |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba@earthlink.net>
I can't believe all you guys missed the obvious.... Fly her to Fiji in
your RV!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba@earthlink.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Finally, presenting N51PW |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Over six years ago, the journey began- she is now officially "more" than 90%
done- go to Doug Reeves Website for her internet debut:
http://www.vansairforce.net/rvoftheweek/index.htm
Thanks to eveyone who had a hand in this- she's a fine machine born into a
fine family- See y'all at a fly-in soon!
From The PossumWorks in TN,
Mark Phillips do not archive
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Finally, presenting N51PW |
--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
Oh yeah- forgot to credit Bobby Potts as well as Don and Al at Tuscaloosa
Interiors at TCL for the great paint job- beeyooteefull! Thanks guys!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark do not archive
Message 7
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|
| Subject: | Re: Light arobatic instruction |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569@hotmail.com>
You are right on the mark. Check the aircraft's operating limitations to
see if aerobatics are allowed. If not then get with your local FSDO to get
tehm amended. If aerobatics are allowed but were not done during Phase One
testing then you need to conduct each manuver at least once using Phase One
requirements. After landing make an entry in the aircraft records listing
each manuver. Once they have been completed by a person alone and entered
in the logs then a second person can go along.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
>From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Light arobatic instruction
>Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2005 17:59:45 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv@comcast.net>
>
>Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
><mstewart@iss.net>
> >
> >Can you confirm Charlie that your aircraft log book has entries for
> >aerobatics flown during phase 1?
> >Mike
> >Do not archive
> >
> >
>If he does not have the aircraft log entries all he has to do is put his
>aircraft back in phase 1 and fly the aerobatics
>he want to do with his aircraft. I don't know how many hours would be
>required to stay in phase 1. Do the log book
>entries and should be good to go. .....Right Das Fed?
>
>Jerry
>
>
Message 8
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
(possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
someone point me in the right direction for these things?
Travis
RV-6A @ VGT
RV-7A in the garage
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway" <dan@rvproject.com>
You can find them here:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/cabletiemounts.php
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Wire anchors
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>
> I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
> (possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
> someone point me in the right direction for these things?
>
>
> Travis
>
> RV-6A @ VGT
>
> RV-7A in the garage
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 10
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--> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" <terry@tcwatson.com>
Travis,
I found bags of them in various sizes at Fry's electronics. The ones I am
talking about are small white plastic squares with a raised center that will
accept plastic wire ties from left-right or up-down. They come in various
sizes and seem to stick very well.
Here's a source from Google for the kind I am talking about:
http://www.buycableties.com/catalog/?cid=23
Terry
--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
(possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
someone point me in the right direction for these things?
Travis
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: linn walters <lwalters2@cfl.rr.com>
Try http://www.mouser.com/ and search for cable ties.
Linn
do not archive
Travis Hamblen wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>
>I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
>(possibly called anchors?), but I can't find a source for them. Could
>someone point me in the right direction for these things?
>
>
>Travis
>
>RV-6A @ VGT
>
>RV-7A in the garage
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Source for decals |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com>
I'm planning on painting my plane as a Military trainer. Can anyone
recommend a source for decals? star insignia, etc.
Thanks
Richard
Message 13
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| Subject: | Help wanted finishing fiberglass, transition training barter |
--> RV-List message posted by: "shemp2" <shempdowling@earthlink.net>
Does anyone want to make some extra cash finishing off my fairings? I have all
of the fairings bolted on, they just need the cosmetic touches that I dont have
the time for right now. I really would like to get the paint job done soon
but have to get the fairings finished first.
I live in the Midwest but can fly it anywhere reasonable and leave it for a week
or so. If someone is looking to get some stick time, this could work out great.
Let me know off list please.
Do not archive
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
165 hours
Chicago/Louisville
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: James H Nelson <rv9jim@juno.com>
Travis,
Try finding the anchors at the "shack"
Jim
N599RV (reserved)
http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Finally, presenting N51PW |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mike Kellems" <mkellems@tnweb.com>
Sure looks great Mark - be sure to fly her to LUG this saturday for the EAA
meeting!! By the way - The people from AirEvac will be giving CPR
instruction so be sure to be there. Who jnows when one of us may have to
"save" the other. --- PW really does look good! --- Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw@aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Finally, presenting N51PW
> --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
> Over six years ago, the journey began- she is now officially "more" than
90%
> done- go to Doug Reeves Website for her internet debut:
>
> http://www.vansairforce.net/rvoftheweek/index.htm
>
> Thanks to eveyone who had a hand in this- she's a fine machine born into a
> fine family- See y'all at a fly-in soon!
>
> >From The PossumWorks in TN,
> Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "sportpilot" <sportypilot@stx.rr.com>
I need some too~ one question though, do the stick on ones work ?
> I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
> (possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
> someone point me in the right direction for these things?
>
>
> Travis
>
Message 17
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Travis,
I think you are referring to Click Bond fastners.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: <rv-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Wire anchors
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 08:45:35 -0800
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>
>I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
>(possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
>someone point me in the right direction for these things?
>
>
>Travis
>
>RV-6A @ VGT
>
>RV-7A in the garage
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Source for decals |
--> RV-List message posted by: "J. Rion Bourgeois" <rion@att.net>
Your local vinyl sign shop. Good luck. Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Suffoletto" <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Source for decals
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Richard Suffoletto"
> <rsuffoletto@hotmail.com>
>
> I'm planning on painting my plane as a Military trainer. Can anyone
> recommend a source for decals? star insignia, etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Richard
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Source for decals |
--> RV-List message posted by: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
I think this company's product line is what you have in mind.
Rick Galati
http://www.aerographics.com/
I'm planning on painting my plane as a Military trainer. Can anyone
recommend a source for decals? star insignia, etc.
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Source for decals |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Hi Rick,
We highly recommend Woodway Sign. They worked with us to help design the
decals on our
RV-8A. They provided mutliple color choices and scale drawings of the larger
decals. All at a very low cost. In addition, the decals, which have been in
place since April of 2001, still look new.
Phil Fox, an owner, was always available for questions. Their web site is
www.woodway@woodwaysigns.com and can be reached at (800) 670-4600
Highly recommend them.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Rick Galati <rick6a@yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: rv-list@matronics.com@yahoo.com>
>
>I think this company's product line is what you have in mind.
>
>Rick Galati
>http://www.aerographics.com/
>
>
>I'm planning on painting my plane as a Military trainer. Can anyone
>recommend a source for decals? star insignia, etc.
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Finally, presenting N51PW |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham@hotmail.com>
Hi Mark,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck and Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list@matronics.com
>To: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>Subject: RV-List: Finally, presenting N51PW
>Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 09:43:37 EST
>
>--> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com
>
>Over six years ago, the journey began- she is now officially "more" than
>90%
>done- go to Doug Reeves Website for her internet debut:
>
>http://www.vansairforce.net/rvoftheweek/index.htm
>
>Thanks to eveyone who had a hand in this- she's a fine machine born into a
>fine family- See y'all at a fly-in soon!
>
>From The PossumWorks in TN,
>Mark Phillips do not archive
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: Bill Dube <bdube@al.noaa.gov>
At 08:45 AM 2/15/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>
>I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
>(possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
>someone point me in the right direction for these things?
You won't find many (or perhaps any) of these in a certified
airplane. This is because typical ones come unstuck after a few years. Not
a good thing to have wires flopping around in an airplane.
Message 23
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| Subject: | pourable tank sealant??followup |
--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Flamemaster says to use their cs 3600 which, by fortuitous coincidence,
can also be used to seal removable covers. (!)
http://www.nationalsealants.com/TDS/CS3600.pdf
About $25/pint plus the pound of HAZMAT flesh for shipping.
Thanks to all for their help.
Charlie
Charlie England wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
>I've written Flamemaster; I hope to get a reply on Monday. Some info on
>the web indicates there's a 'c' grade that's pourable, but I haven't
>found a supplier that shows it in their online catalog. Can the 'b'
>grade stuff be cut with MEK to thin it without hurting the effectiveness?
>
>The tank in question is the wing leading edge outboard of the stock
>tank. The problem was caused by applying the bead of sealant in line
>with the ribs' spar flanges instead of just inside of the rivet line
>inside the skin. Because of the gentle radius of the spar (acting as the
>back baffle of the new tank bays), the bead of sealant missed the spar
>completely. The other leading edge was just done this morning & by
>applying the bead next to the rivet line, all seems to be well.
>
>If the joint between the skin & spar can be filled, there shouldn't be a
>problem with the rest of the joints & rivets. My big concern is with the
>'slosh' coating & then later peeling off the large areas of the tank
>that weren't carefully cleaned like the joint areas. A couple of replies
>off-list (thanks, guys) indicated that this is the primary problem with
>'slosh'.
>
>The outboard skin is thinner than the tank skins & will flex enough to
>lift off the spar even with the ribs attached. I'm still tempted to just
>drill the rivets, lift the skin & 'recaulk' with regular sealant. It
>seems unlikely that it's effectively 'stuck' to the spar, since it's
>leaking along over 1/2 the length of the 3 bays that were closed up for
>fuel.
>
>Any thoughts on which is the better option?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
>
>
>Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
>
>
>>--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg@snowcrest.net>
>>
>>You might try to reach the company that makes the "proseal" we all get from
>>Vans. I understand that you can get it in different consistencies. They are
>>called Flame Master, and I am sure they have a website somewhere. The thing
>>I would be leery of is the real root of the problem with the old slosh. It
>>did not like to stick to the smooth aluminum skins on the inside of the
>>tank.........you may have the same problem with any other product. Unless
>>you open up the tank and scuff it all up with a scotchbrite, you may have
>>adhesion problems. I would like to hear about the tanks you are trying to
>>fix.....how many leaks and where. Many times they can be
>>repaired........sometimes the best solution is new tanks. Feel free to call
>>or email me, I may be able to help.
>>
>>Evan Johnson
>>www.evansaviationproducts.com
>>(530)247-0375
>>(530)351-1776 cell
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>>To: "RV list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: RV-List: pourable tank sealant??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>>>
>>>I'm aware of the past problems with tank 'sloshing compound'.
>>>
>>>Is there a newer compound that will allow 'sloshing' a tank without the
>>>peeling problems of old?
>>>
>>>(I'm asking for a friend, of course. I'd never personally need this
>>>stuff....)
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Charlie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Message 24
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|
--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
I bought some DuPont aluminum conversion treatment from my local paint store
when I got some Imron. I assumed that it was just normal Alodine. I just
read the bottles and there are a bunch of warnings about respirators,
cancer, etc. I remember in A&P school 15 years ago that we just wore
gloves. Is this normal for all Alodines or did I just buy some particularly
nasty stuff? Is there different Alodine I can buy that I don't need to wear
a respirator with?
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | hartzell CS props |
0.50 MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART Spam tool pattern in MIME boundary
0.01 RCVD_DOUBLE_IP_LOOSE Received: by and from look like IP addresses
--> RV-List message posted by: luckymacy@comcast.net (lucky)
With respect to George in the email below, his info is wrong on the new blended
Hartzell prop. It does have midrange restrictions. See Van's catalog for further
details.
Also, Van's could stand to update the info on the Blended Prop. Hartzell's testing
with it using the 200 hp Angle Valve engine is over and the combo flunked.
They will not recommend the combo. Further, they told me it would not be earlier
than this fall before they might have another blended airfoil available
to test with the 200 hp engine.
On the flip side, they did throw a bone out and told me that they do currently
make composite props for certain folks in the acro crowd but they don't sell through
vendors like Van's. Very limited basis and very expensive. However, they
are expecting to have a major price DECREASE shortly in composite props with
the intent of being competitive against the MTs and the Whirwinds.
Anyway, I said back in November they were testing the blended prop and report back.
Now I have and sorry to say the cooler looking new prop didn't make the
grade.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
> --> RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> First, I need to apologize to all of you that the information I provided
> conflicted with your beliefs.
> Second, I need to apologize for not having the foresight to include all
> required technical information.
>
> If having the theoretical optimum efficiency propeller was required for
> flight, we would still be waiting for the Wright brother's first flight.
>
> From my old fading memory (Hi Doug Preston), the maximum theoretical
> propeller efficiency for a 2 blade propeller is around 91.5%, and the 3 blade
is
> around 90.7%.
>
> The actual propeller efficiency can be very close to the theoretical maximum
> propeller efficiency.
>
> Since we are really concerned about the real world application of existing
> propellers for our aircraft, and are not still waiting for the perfect
> propeller, where does that leave us?
>
> IMHO, typical propeller efficiencies for our aircraft in cruise are about
> 88%.
>
> On a RV-6A with a Lycoming O-360-A1A engine, I tested four different
> propellers and found the actual propeller efficiencies to be almost identical.
> Three of the propellers were 2 blade propellers. One was a 3 blade propeller.
>
> So now I'll tell you what I believe.
> The actual propeller efficiencies are far enough off of the theoretical
> propeller efficiencies that a custom designed 3 blade propeller can have the
> same, or better, actual propeller efficiency than a 2 blade propeller.
>
> In fact, I asked MT Propeller to design a 4 blade propeller for my HR2. The
> propeller efficiency analysis predicts the same efficiency as the 3 blade MT
> Rocket propeller. Once I decided on the paint colors for the propeller, I
> will be ordering a 4 blade MT propeller for my HR2.
> By flight test, I already established the cruise propeller efficiency to be
> the same between the 2 blade Hartzell propellers (both "D" and "J" blade) and
> the 3 blade MT Rocket propeller.
>
> More real world stuff, if you are not interested in cruise performance.
> Let's say your mission is to go as fast as possible on the deck at maximum
> RPM.
> My performance data indicates that the 2 blade Hartzell propeller works
> slightly better on the RV-6A under these conditions.
> Tracy Saylor's performance data between his highly modified Hartzell
> propeller and an MT 3 blade propeller says the same thing.
> For now, "Use the 2 blade Hartzell propeller."
>
> Back to normal cruise conditions at 1,000' and 12,000'.
> Tracy Saylor's data shows that the 2 blade and 3 blade propeller performance
> is the same at 2500 RPM and below.
>
> Why go below 2500 RPM? (I know. You didn't ask.) (Back to the RV-6A.)
> Because the cruise efficiency (and range) is optimized at the lower RPM.
> Even as low as 2100 to 2200 RPM. (Full throttle fuel flow decreases MUCH
> faster than airspeed below 2500 RPM. At 12,000', the airspeed didn't appear to
> change between 2500 RPM and 2200 RPM. Just the fuel flow changed.)
>
> MT Propeller has just completed the analysis and testing on their new 3
> blade RV propeller for the Lycoming 360 non counterweighted engines.
> The 3 blade MTV-12-B/183-59b manufactured after January 2005 has no mid
> range RPM restrictions on the Lycoming 360 engine. Unfortunately for me, I
> just
> ordered the metal 2 blade MTV-15-B/183-402 propeller for my RV-6A.
> (Yes, MT Propeller has an aluminum blade 2 blade RV propeller for the
> Lycoming 360 engine with no mid range RPM restriction. Vibration testing done
> using high compression pistons and electronic ignition.)
>
> If you have any technical questions regarding MT Propeller's testing, please
> send Eric Greindl an email at _Eric.Greindl@mt-propeller.com_
> (mailto:Eric.Greindl@mt-propeller.com) , or call Eric at 011-49-9429-94-09-19.
> Eric speaks
> excellent English and Germany is 8 hours earlier than PST. (Eric's title is
> Sales Manager, but his actual function appears to be general manager.)
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 02/13/2005 11:59:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> Les:
>
> I guess I am not sure what the answer is regarding the MT two blade (metal)
> prop
> for the 180HP or 200HP Lycoming (I)O-360. You state they have certified
> applications
> and "Done that been there" but inquiring minds want to know...I think
> the point Kevin was making is:
>
> Has MT specifically tested their prop with Lightspeed ignition, LASAR
> ignition,
> FADEC and High Compression Pistons. Hartzell is supporting the experimental
> market
> by actually testing a wide variety of props and even brands of engines like
> the XP-360, on a RV-8 of all things. I sure would like to see something like
> that from MT, stating they have done vibration surveys with these different
> configurations. No offense, but what does "Done that been there" mean? Prop
> manufactures
> have no obligation to test props for the experimental market.
>
> As far as "being sorry" for those of us with Hartzell props, I know you are
> kidding.
> Hartzell performance and the performance of their new Blended Airfoil model
> is without compare and has no mid-range RPM restriction on the 180hp Lyc
> with
> E ignition or FADEC. Also the Hartzell has widely available service and
> parts,
> new or reconditioned, and they cost less than the MT. If the new MT has no
> restrictions with 10.5 to 1 pistons and E ignition, than this is a fantastic
> additional choice for the experimental market. However, to assume it has no
> restrictions
> on a highly modified engine, based on a STC for stock engines, is
> not precise. I would call MT myself but I don't: "sprechen Sie Deutsches"
>
> Keep up the good work Les, Cheers George
>
>
>
>
>
>
With respect to George in the email below, his info is wrong on the new blended
Hartzell prop. It does have midrange restrictions. See Van's catalog for further
details.
Also, Van's could stand to update the info on the Blended Prop. Hartzell's testing
with it using the 200 hp Angle Valve engine is over and the combo flunked.
They will not recommend the combo. Further, they told me it would not beearlier
than thisfall before they might have another blended airfoil available to test
with the 200 hp engine.
On the flip side, they did throw a bone out and told me that they do currently
make composite props for certain folks in the acro crowd but they don't sell through
vendors like Van's. Very limited basis and very expensive. However, they
are expecting to have a major price DECREASE shortly in composite props with
the intent of being competitive against the MTs and the Whirwinds.
Anyway, I said back in November they were testing the blended prop and report back.
Now I have and sorry to say the cooler looking new prop didn't make the grade.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com
Hi all,
First, I need to apologize to all of you that the information I provided
conflicted with your beliefs.
Second, I need to apologize for not having the foresight to include all
required technical information.
If having the theoretical optimum efficiency propeller was required for
flight, we would still be waiting for the Wright brother's first flight.
From my old fading memory (Hi Doug Preston), the maximum theoretical
propeller efficiency for a 2 blade propeller is around 91.5%, and the 3 blade
is
around 90.7%.
The actual propeller efficiency can be very close to the theoretical maximum
propeller efficiency.
Since we are really concerned about the real world application of existing
propellers for our aircraft, and are not still waiting for the perfect
propeller, where does that leave us?
IMHO, typical propeller efficiencies for our aircraft in cruise are about
88%.
On a RV-6A with a Lycoming O-360-A1A engine, I tested four different
propellers and found the actual propeller efficiencies to be almost identical.
Three of the propellers were 2 blade propellers. One was a 3 blade propeller.
So now I'll tell you what I believe.
The actual propeller efficiencies are far enough off of the theoretical
propeller efficiencies that a custom designed 3 blade propeller can have the
same, or better, actual propeller efficiency than a 2 blade propeller.
In fact, I asked MT Propeller to design a 4 blade propeller for my HR2. The
&g
t; propeller efficiency analysis predicts the same efficiency as the 3 blade MT
Rocket propeller. Once I decided on the paint colors for the propeller, I
will be ordering a 4 blade MT propeller for my HR2.
By flight test, I already established the cruise propeller efficiency to be
the same between the 2 blade Hartzell propellers (both "D" and "J" blade) and
the 3 blade MT Rocket propeller.
More real world stuff, if you are not interested in cruise performance.
Let's say your mission is to go as fast as possible on the deck at maximum
RPM.
My performance data indicates that the 2 blade Hartzell propeller works
slightly better on the RV-6A under these conditions.
Tracy Saylor's performance data between his highly modified Hartzell
propeller and an MT 3 blade propeller says the same thing.
For now, "Use the 2 blade Hartzell propeller."
Back to normal cruise conditions at 1,000' and 12,000'.
Tracy Saylor's data shows that the 2 blade and 3 blade propeller performance
is the same at 2500 RPM and below.
Why go below 2500 RPM? (I know. You didn't ask.) (Back to the RV-6A.)
Because the cruise efficiency (and range) is optimized at the lower RPM.
Even as low as 2100 to 2200 RPM. (Full throttle fuel flow decreases MUCH
faster than airspeed below 2500 RPM. At 12,000', the airspeed didn't appear to
change between 2500 RPM and 2200 RPM. Just the fuel flow changed.)
MT Propeller has just completed the analysis and testing on their new 3
blade RV propeller for the Lycoming 360 non counterweighted engines.
The 3 blade MTV-12-B/183-59b manufactured after January 2005 has no mid
range RPM restrictions on the Lycoming 360 engine. Unfortunately for me, I
just
ordered the metal 2 blade MTV-1
5-B/183-402 propeller for my RV-6A.
(Yes, MT Propeller has an aluminum blade 2 blade RV propeller for the
Lycoming 360 engine with no mid range RPM restriction. Vibration testing done
using high compression pistons and electronic ignition.)
If you have any technical questions regarding MT Propeller's testing, please
send Eric Greindl an email at _Eric.Greindl@mt-propeller.com_
(mailto:Eric.Greindl@mt-propeller.com) , or call Eric at 011-49-9429-94-09-19.
Eric speaks
excellent English and Germany is 8 hours earlier than PST. (Eric's title is
Sales Manager, but his actual function appears to be general manager.)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 02/13/2005 11:59:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rv-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
Les:
I guess I am not sure what the answer is regarding the MT two bla
de (metal)
prop
for the 180HP or 200HP Lycoming (I)O-360. You state they have certified
applications
and "Done that been there" but inquiring minds want to know...I think
the point Kevin was making is:
Has MT specifically tested their prop with Lightspeed ignition, LASAR
ignition,
FADEC and High Compression Pistons. Hartzell is supporting the experimental
market
by actually testing a wide variety of props and even brands of engines like
the XP-360, on a RV-8 of all things. I sure would like to see something like
that from MT, stating they have done vibration surveys with these different
configurations. No offense, but what does "Done that been there" mean? Prop
manufactures
have no obligation to test props for the experimental market.
As far as "being sorry" for those of us with Hartzell props, I know you are
&g
t; kidding.
Hartzell performance and the performance of their new Blended Airfoil model
is without compare and has no mid-range RPM restriction on the 180hp Lyc
with
E ignition or FADEC. Also the Hartzell has widely available service and
parts,
new or reconditioned, and they cost less than the MT. If the new MT has no
restrictions with 10.5 to 1 pistons and E ignition, than this is a fantastic
additional choice for the experimental market. However, to assume it has no
restrictions
on a highly modified engine, based on a STC for stock engines, is
not precise. I would call MT myself but I don't: "sprechen Sie Deutsches"
Keep up the good work Les, Cheers George
utions
/trouble-report
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Alodine safety |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker@optonline.net>
It's all the same stuff. Just more regulations and cautions now. Thank
all the lawyers and all the people who refuse to take any responsibility
for themselves.
Sorry for the soapbox and do not archive...
Dick Tasker
Brian Kraut wrote:
>--> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut@engalt.com>
>
>I bought some DuPont aluminum conversion treatment from my local paint store
>when I got some Imron. I assumed that it was just normal Alodine. I just
>read the bottles and there are a bunch of warnings about respirators,
>cancer, etc. I remember in A&P school 15 years ago that we just wore
>gloves. Is this normal for all Alodines or did I just buy some particularly
>nasty stuff? Is there different Alodine I can buy that I don't need to wear
>a respirator with?
>
>Brian Kraut
>Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
>www.engalt.com
>
>
>
>
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: pourable tank sealant??followup |
--> RV-List message posted by: Paul Trotter <ptrotter@acm.org>
Charlie,
It is interesting that Flamemaster recommended this product. It seems to be
designed primarily as an adhesive for bonding. By the way, the TDS you
reference is old and has been superceded by a newer version that is somewhat
different and seems to limit the product to bonding applications. The new
version, which can be found at
http://www.flamemaster.com/Products&Services/prod02.htm eliminates any
reference to top-coating or sloshing in the application section. They may
have run into the peeling problem that you mentioned.
Personally, I would drill out the rivets and start over with sealant, but if
I were to try an repair it in place, I would use the "A" version of the
CS3204 or thin the CS3204B with Toluene rather than use a 1 part material.
I am also surprised they recommended this for access plate sealing as it is
primarily an adhesive and would probably be difficult to remove. They make
a low adhesive product just for this purpose, CS3330, which is probably more
appropriate. Of course it is always nice to be able to limit yourself to a
single product for multiple purposes. I ordered a 1 oz. kit of CS3330 to do
my access plates. I think it cost about $8.
In any case, I would be very interested in how it works out for you.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: pourable tank sealant??followup
> --> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
>
> Flamemaster says to use their cs 3600 which, by fortuitous coincidence,
> can also be used to seal removable covers. (!)
>
> http://www.nationalsealants.com/TDS/CS3600.pdf
>
> About $25/pint plus the pound of HAZMAT flesh for shipping.
>
> Thanks to all for their help.
>
> Charlie
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>
> >--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >I've written Flamemaster; I hope to get a reply on Monday. Some info on
> >the web indicates there's a 'c' grade that's pourable, but I haven't
> >found a supplier that shows it in their online catalog. Can the 'b'
> >grade stuff be cut with MEK to thin it without hurting the effectiveness?
> >
> >The tank in question is the wing leading edge outboard of the stock
> >tank. The problem was caused by applying the bead of sealant in line
> >with the ribs' spar flanges instead of just inside of the rivet line
> >inside the skin. Because of the gentle radius of the spar (acting as the
> >back baffle of the new tank bays), the bead of sealant missed the spar
> >completely. The other leading edge was just done this morning & by
> >applying the bead next to the rivet line, all seems to be well.
> >
> >If the joint between the skin & spar can be filled, there shouldn't be a
> >problem with the rest of the joints & rivets. My big concern is with the
> >'slosh' coating & then later peeling off the large areas of the tank
> >that weren't carefully cleaned like the joint areas. A couple of replies
> >off-list (thanks, guys) indicated that this is the primary problem with
> >'slosh'.
> >
> >The outboard skin is thinner than the tank skins & will flex enough to
> >lift off the spar even with the ribs attached. I'm still tempted to just
> >drill the rivets, lift the skin & 'recaulk' with regular sealant. It
> >seems unlikely that it's effectively 'stuck' to the spar, since it's
> >leaking along over 1/2 the length of the 3 bays that were closed up for
> >fuel.
> >
> >Any thoughts on which is the better option?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Charlie
> >
> >
> >Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>--> RV-List message posted by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
<evmeg@snowcrest.net>
> >>
> >>You might try to reach the company that makes the "proseal" we all get
from
> >>Vans. I understand that you can get it in different consistencies. They
are
> >>called Flame Master, and I am sure they have a website somewhere. The
thing
> >>I would be leery of is the real root of the problem with the old slosh.
It
> >>did not like to stick to the smooth aluminum skins on the inside of the
> >>tank.........you may have the same problem with any other product.
Unless
> >>you open up the tank and scuff it all up with a scotchbrite, you may
have
> >>adhesion problems. I would like to hear about the tanks you are trying
to
> >>fix.....how many leaks and where. Many times they can be
> >>repaired........sometimes the best solution is new tanks. Feel free to
call
> >>or email me, I may be able to help.
> >>
> >>Evan Johnson
> >>www.evansaviationproducts.com
> >>(530)247-0375
> >>(530)351-1776 cell
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Charlie England" <ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> >>To: "RV list" <rv-list@matronics.com>
> >>Subject: RV-List: pourable tank sealant??
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>--> RV-List message posted by: Charlie England
<ceengland@bellsouth.net>
> >>>
> >>>I'm aware of the past problems with tank 'sloshing compound'.
> >>>
> >>>Is there a newer compound that will allow 'sloshing' a tank without the
> >>>peeling problems of old?
> >>>
> >>>(I'm asking for a friend, of course. I'd never personally need this
> >>>stuff....)
> >>>
> >>>Thanks,
> >>>
> >>>Charlie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
Message 28
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|
| Subject: | deburring dimpled holes |
--> RV-List message posted by: Harold Roman <haroldroman00@yahoo.com>
Should holes that are going to be dimpled be deburred first? I thought all holes
should be deburred after drilling. However, in "Standard Aircraft Handbook"
by Larry Reithmaier I find it says "Deburring shall not be prerformed on predrilled
holes that are to be subsequently form countersunk."
So what's wrong with deburring and dimpling? Is this inviting cracks to form? Do
I need to replace the parts where I've done this?
Harold
---------------------------------
Message 29
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|
| Subject: | Re: Wire anchors |
--> RV-List message posted by: "Mark Burns" <maburns@cox-internet.com>
Travis,
In the industrial electric world these are commonly called "sticky backs"
I would only use them in an airplane as a last resort. They will come loose
in a few years at best.
Here where I work we build UL listed industrial control panels. We use the
sticky backs quite a bit, But only were there's no movement of the wire.
Sources are electrical supply houses. Some good brands are Panduit and
Burndy.
Panduit has an outdoor/High Temp version that I'm going to try here at work
soon. These may be a lot better. P/N ABMM-AT-CO for a 3/4" X 3/4"
mount.These are black.
Mark Burns
RV-7(A?) Emp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Wire anchors
>
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen@cox.net>
>
> I have seen some pics of people using these self adhesive wire tie downs
> (possibly called anchors?), but I can=92t find a source for them. Could
> someone point me in the right direction for these things?
>
>
> Travis
>
> RV-6A @ VGT
>
> RV-7A in the garage
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>
>
>
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