---------------------------------------------------------- RV-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 03/04/05: 52 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:01 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A (Jim Jewell) 2. 01:12 AM - vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? (rveighta) 3. 02:03 AM - Re: Using Sika 295 UV for the Canopy (owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com) 4. 02:28 AM - Re: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head (Charles Heathco) 5. 03:39 AM - Re: Garmin 196 problem (Charles Heathco) 6. 03:59 AM - Re: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark (Charles Heathco) 7. 04:28 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A (Helming, L R & K L) 8. 04:29 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A (Helming, L R & K L) 9. 05:07 AM - Autopilot for Sale ooops! (Bob) 10. 05:25 AM - Using Sika 295 UV for the Canopy (JEllis9847@aol.com) 11. 05:48 AM - Rotary eng in RV (Charles Heathco) 12. 06:31 AM - Re: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head (Fiveonepw@aol.com) 13. 06:40 AM - Re: Rotary eng in RV (Finn Lassen) 14. 07:07 AM - EFIS Lite (Doug Rozendaal) 15. 07:07 AM - Re: Rotary eng in RV (Ed Anderson) 16. 07:18 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A (Clinchy, Dave) 17. 07:18 AM - magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 18. 07:51 AM - Re: EFIS Lite (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 19. 08:00 AM - Re: EFIS Lite (Scott Vanartsdalen) 20. 08:09 AM - NAPA 7220 Self Etching Primer... (Matt Johnson) 21. 08:25 AM - Re: EFIS Lite (Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)) 22. 08:28 AM - Re: F.I. to FAB Spacer (Neil McLeod) 23. 09:07 AM - Re: Hanger or Garage (Bill Cary) 24. 09:12 AM - Fuel Senders (alan@reichertech.com) 25. 09:19 AM - Re: Hanger or Garage (Konrad L. Werner) 26. 09:36 AM - Re: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head (Jeff Dowling) 27. 09:40 AM - Re: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A (Jeff Dowling) 28. 09:43 AM - Re: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark (Jeff Dowling) 29. 10:11 AM - Re: panel label engraving with back lighting (Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers) 30. 10:54 AM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Terry Watson) 31. 10:59 AM - Re: EFIS Lite (Terry Watson) 32. 11:18 AM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 33. 11:40 AM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Mickey Coggins) 34. 12:03 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Terry Watson) 35. 12:03 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Terry Watson) 36. 12:03 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 37. 12:20 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 38. 12:46 PM - Re: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark (Pat Hatch) 39. 01:00 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 40. 01:34 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Bill VonDane) 41. 01:41 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Sam Buchanan) 42. 02:13 PM - Re: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head (Scott Jackson) 43. 02:42 PM - Re: Cruise performance data () 44. 02:56 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Jim Jewell) 45. 03:03 PM - Re: magnetometer in an RV-8? (Jim Jewell) 46. 04:53 PM - # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? (Lenleg@aol.com) 47. 05:37 PM - Re: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? (Jim Cimino) 48. 05:52 PM - Re: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? (Jim Jewell) 49. 06:15 PM - Re: EFIS Lite (Kevin Horton) 50. 07:08 PM - Re: EFIS Lite (Stein Bruch) 51. 08:45 PM - Re: Garmin 196 problem (Doug Gray) 52. 09:35 PM - Re: Garmin 196 problem (Jeff Bertsch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:01:08 AM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Mickey, The UPS Apollo SL-70 (now Garmin owned) can be programmed to accept either serial or parallel input. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >> #1) It feeds a Serial TXPDR with only 2 wires via RS-232 over 14 wires >> "gray >> code" > > Which transponders out there use serial input? I was under > the impression that there were not too many. > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 Wiring > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:12:34 AM PST US From: rveighta Subject: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta Thanks to those of you who responded to my questions about the wingtip vor antenna. That was just the type of info I was looking for. Now, how about using an Archer wingtip antenna for the COM radio? Good reception? Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:03:59 AM PST US From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Using Sika 295 UV for the Canopy --> RV-List message posted by: There might be truth in this as I have read that applying paint over a two component epoxy primer requires that the paint should be applied within 24 hours. If you wait longer than that you must rough up the old primer surface, reapply primer and then paint over the new primer. This is the reason that I try not to prime parts which will be ultimately painted. I only prime parts that are hidden and which thereby shall not be painted over. You can always check with Sika however you might want to make a test yourself. Glue a piece on a freshly primed piece and do the same on a piece on which the primer has fully set, say a month under room temperature conditions. You can then pull on the glued pieces and determine if there is any difference. I'd use a couple of angles riveted back to back and glued onto a base material which can be firmly held in place. You can then test by adding weights via a lever assembly through a hole in the angle's flange which sticks out. The glued surface should be fairly small otherwise you might need prohibitive weights to pull the thing apart. Or you might use some kind of hydraulic pump which has a pressure indicator. Michele - Wings RV8 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garey Wittich > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 10:09 PM > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Using Sika 295 UV for the Canopy > > --> RV-List message posted by: Garey Wittich > > One Builder, on the RV List, mentioned that if Sika > 295UV is to applied on Metal or Plexiglass after the > Primer has dried for 2 hours, the old Primer needs to > be cleaned and another coat of Primer applied. No > other Builders on the RV List have mentioned this. > What is the truth ????? This would be important > especially when the WHOLE Canopy is basically "tacked" > in place with the Sika 295 (using spacers between the > Plexi and Frame), allowed to cure then cut into Slider > and Windscreen - more than 2 hours will have passed. > Does the black exposed Primer need to be cleaned and > then reapplied again before Fillets are applied and > the gaps between the steel canopy frame and the canopy > are filled in. ???? > > Thanks, Garey RV8A > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:40 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" Yes, let them take it up the Wazoo! :-) Charlie do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Young" Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head --> RV-List message posted by: "Greg Young" Before you mount anything under the seat please consider that it's a crush zone. Anything under there can be shoved up you know where in the event of a crash. At least put it under the passenger seat;-) Regards, Greg > > Either do as the two previous guys suggested and put it on > the wingtip or...Trutrak sends a bracket with their RV-6 > install kit that puts the servo under the seat. Either place > doesn't seem to take too much time to install. > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:41 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 problem --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" Jeff, be sure to post your findings re the pwr, Tnx charlie. do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Bertsch" Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 problem --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch Thanks for the great suggestion. I'll first need to find a multimeter that can show 50 microamps. I talked with Garmin Tech support today. He said "he heard of problems like that" and that usually updating to the latest OS and doing a hard reboot fixes it. Hmm. Must be a Microsoft windows product. So I guess I'll try it. I downloaded and installed OS Version 3.92 Beta with no problems. This will delete all your User waypoints and Routes, so be sure and save them first. If you don't have MapSource you can use one of the free products like found on www.easygps.com. Here is the master reboot procedure for your Garmin: Turn GPS off Hold down the OUT, QUIT and NRST buttons simultaneously While holding those buttons tap the POWER button The unit will beep but the screen will stay blank (if you press the power button too long, it will just turn on - not what you want) Continue to hold the OUT, QUIT and NRST buttons simultaneously until you hear another beep Release the OUT, QUIT and NRST buttons The GPS now power up on its own and will be reset. It took a couple tries but I got it to work. Note that this also will wipe out all User waypoints and routes. Use at your own risk. No warranty expressed or implied. YMMV. Etc. I don't know how this will fix the power drain problem while connected on onboard power - but we'll see. Jeff Bertsch lonestarsquadron.com Hopperdhh@aol.com wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: Hopperdhh@aol.com Jeff, One way to get to the cause of this problem is to measure the battery current. Take a piece of insulator (tape, cardboard, double sided circuit board, etc.) and insulate one battery from the connector -- say at the positive end of the series string, and bring out 2 wires. Or, bring out 2 wires and connect the batteries externally through the meter. Put a multimeter in series and monitor the current drain. Is there a steady drain? 50 to 100 microamps would run the batteries down in a few months. (Be careful not to turn the unit on while on a sensitive range, of course.) If not, is there significant drain during normal operation? Hope this helps, Dan Hopper Walton, IN RV-7A (Flying) In a message dated 3/2/05 7:38:12 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, Larry@bowenaero.com writes: I may be seeing this also. The batteries that are only meant to be used as back up went dead after only 3 months. I attributed it to the cold weather and the 30 second count-down after main power is removed, but maybe it's something else..... -- Larry Bowen Larry@BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Quoting Jeff Bertsch : > --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch > > Both Bryan Jones and I have a the same problem with our Garmin 196: > > we have the GPS connected to onboard power, but the batteries keep > going dead after a short period of time, even though we are not using > them on battery power. I have also found a pilot on the Beechlist > who has the same problem. > > Is there anyone else on the RV-list experiencing this? > > Jeff Bertsch ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:28 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: Re: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" I tried it and found it no better than the bent SS whip that builder installed. I finally lowered my retirement fund a bit to get one of those good blade antenas and mounted under belly, very good recp. I left the comm in the tip for connecting my handheld if needed. Charlie heathco ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" Subject: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta Thanks to those of you who responded to my questions about the wingtip vor antenna. That was just the type of info I was looking for. Now, how about using an Archer wingtip antenna for the COM radio? Good reception? Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:47 AM PST US From: "Helming, L R & K L" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A --> RV-List message posted by: "Helming, L R & K L" And their marketing folks want you to buy their extra cost option. Perhaps its time to consider an old time non-electric altimeter gauge for backup. ----- Original Message ----- > --> RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" > > I've pondered the same thing. > > I DO WISH that they would make some of the same SIMPLE software changes > for > the D10 that they have made for the D10A, like having a Fahrenheit option > and always showing the altimeter on the main screen..... > > - > >> -----Original Message----- >> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" >> >> I asked the Dynon folks that question face to face at >> Copperstate and they said they didn't think so. The advances >> are incremental and not earthshaking in my opinion. >> >> Pax, >> >> Ed Holyoke >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell >> >> Is it worth upgrading my dynon EFIS-D10 to a EFIS-D10A? >> Thanks >> Dale Mitchell > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:29:46 AM PST US From: "Helming, L R & K L" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A --> RV-List message posted by: "Helming, L R & K L" Garmin 327 can go either way, serial or gray. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > >> #1) It feeds a Serial TXPDR with only 2 wires via RS-232 over 14 wires >> "gray >> code" > > Which transponders out there use serial input? I was under > the impression that there were not too many. > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 Wiring > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:04 AM PST US From: "Bob" Subject: RV-List: Autopilot for Sale ooops! --> RV-List message posted by: "Bob" Sorry for the re-post, I meant to say Navaid Devices Auto pilot for sale not Dynon. The cheese had slipped of my cracker a bit I suppose. Warmest Regards, Bob Gross For the latest F1 Rocket/Synthetic Vision progress, click here... www.F1-RocketBoy.com -----Disclaimer--------- The contents of this E-mail (including contents of enclosure/(s) or attachment/(s) if any are privileged & confidential material of Innovative Aviation Systems Inc. or RocketBoy Aircraft Products Inc. and should not be disclosed to, used by, or copied in any manner by anyone other than intended addressee/(s).If this E-mail (including enclosure/(s) or attachment/(s) if any has been received in error, please advise sender immediately and delete it from your system. The views expressed in this E-mail message (including enclosure/(s) or attachment/(s) if any are those of the individual sender. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:02 AM PST US From: JEllis9847@aol.com Subject: RV-List: Using Sika 295 UV for the Canopy --> RV-List message posted by: JEllis9847@aol.com Garey, To help you understand the surface preparation and use of Sika 295 go to _www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-marine-surface-promoting_ (http://www.sikaindustry.com/ipd-marine-surface-promoting) This info explains the need for a clean bonding surface. I found that you can later apply additional adhesive to pre-existing adhesive simply by re cleaning the surface of the old adhesive (no Primer) and it sticks very well. You cannot detect the bond between the old and new adhesive after it cures. Jim Ellis RV-9A # 90720 wiring panel ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:48:51 AM PST US From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Rotary eng in RV --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" I have looked thru arch and didnt find anything current.-- I would like to know who is running a rotary in thier RV, and evaluate, Also who tried one and pulled it out?? charlie heathco ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:11 AM PST US From: Fiveonepw@aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com In a message dated 3/3/05 6:31:11 PM Central Standard Time, kboatright1@comcast.net writes: > 2) My big concern - installation time. Assuming I go with the under - > seat servo installation in my RV-6, how many hours am I going to have to spend > standing on my head, drilling holes and "making things fit". >>> Hi Kyle- Mine is mounted on the right wingtip rib, easy install and works great with no change to control feel after connected- Sam Buchannan has the link in his post... Have fun- Mark - do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:59 AM PST US From: Finn Lassen Subject: Re: RV-List: Rotary eng in RV --> RV-List message posted by: Finn Lassen http://members.aol.com/rotaryroster/index.html?f=fs and http://www.flyrotary.com/ should get you started. I now have 530+ hours on my RV-3. Finn Charles Heathco wrote: >--> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" > >I have looked thru arch and didnt find anything current.-- I would like to know who is running a rotary in thier RV, and evaluate, Also who tried one and pulled it out?? charlie heathco > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:49 AM PST US From: "Doug Rozendaal" Subject: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Does anyone have an EFIS Lite flying? I would be willing to fly somewhere to see one. I would like to put IFR GPS in my -4. EFIS lite would be an HSI (since Dynon Doug tells me that is not on their short list of things to do) It would be a backup to the Dynon, or the Dynon would be a backup to it.... I called Blue Mountain and asked if the EFIS lite would display all the information necessary for IFR GPS certification and I did not get a clear answer. Would an additional annunciator switching box be required? The answer I got was, "It does everything!" Does it have an OBS resolver for GPS? "Well, it's internal GPS knows where it is at all times so you can resolver anything" How do you switch between OBS and Leg mode? "I don't understand, why would you want to?" In short, the unit looks very impressive, but my conversation with the home office did not answer my questions, and that concerned me. Anyone have one flying, and will it meet the requirements of a IFR GPS indicator/Annunciator? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:49 AM PST US From: "Ed Anderson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Rotary eng in RV --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed Anderson" Charlie, I currently have a bit over 260 hours in my Rotary powered RV-6A. Tracy Crook of Bell, Fl has over 1600 hours in his rotary powered RV-4, there are at least half a dozen with close to 400 or more hours in Rvs, a number in canard type aircraft are now getting into the air. Here is a few sources of more information if you are interested - any questions, just shoot them my way. Be happy to address them. Ed Anderson Matthews, NC RV-6A N494BW eanderson@carolina.rr.com FlyRotary Group (Sign on for e mail list at their web page) web page: http://www.flyrotary.com/ e mail: flyrotary@lancaironline.net List of Rotary aviators and their projects (may be someone near you) web page: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/flying.html Rotary Best Practices Web page (maintained by Mark Wrathall) accumulates the lessons learned, the good, the bad and the Ugly regarding flying rotary engines. web page: http://members.aon.at/wrathall/rotary/ VENDORS (The folks listed below sell something - Tracy Crook focuses on products for the flying rotary that he develops and test flies himself. Tracy Crook's Web page of information and products (great place to start) web page: http://www.rotaryaviation.com email: tcook@rotaryaviation.com Fred Breese Web page of products including rotary engine mounts web page: http://www.conversionconcepts.com Dave Atkins Rotary Engines and products web page: http://www.atkinsrotary.com/ Bruce Turrentine Rotary Engines e mail: BruceTurrentine@aol.com web page: http://rotaryresources.com/index.php Company with just about anything for the rotary engine/RX-7 web page: http://www.mazdatrix.com/ And last my own web page of the history of my RV-6A rotary powered project- I don't sell anything! web page: http://dmack.net/mazda/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: RV-List: Rotary eng in RV > --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" > > I have looked thru arch and didnt find anything current.-- I would like to know who is running a rotary in thier RV, and evaluate, Also who tried one and pulled it out?? charlie heathco > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A From: "Clinchy, Dave" --> RV-List message posted by: "Clinchy, Dave" Micky: >Which transponders out there use serial input? I was under the impression >that there were not too many. I just finished my D10A installation - it feeds my Apollo SL70 transponder with only two wires - it was an easy installation and fired right up and is sending encoder info to the transponder. Dave Clinchy RV-7 Finish Sacramento CA ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:18:43 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? vansairforce --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Where are you -8 builders putting your magnetometers for your Blue Mountains and your Dynons? Some ideas and photos would be great! Thanks! -Bill www.rv8a.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:42 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Doug, I recommend you check out BMA's own message board. It has several messages in there pertaining to just that. One cool thing about them is they keep an open board with all kinds of info that is NOT moderated. You get the whole ball game there. I can tell you that you WILL NOT get a straight answer to anything from BMA. Lots of smoke and mirrors. Just know that going in. They have lots of stokes in the fire so to speak and very little seems ready for prime time. That said... I have one cause for me, even if it does have what it claims, its an unbelieveable unit. I may be the only owner of a Dynon, GRT, MX20, and BMA unit. I know, Im a geek. I have the G3 lite wired in my panel here: http://www.mstewart.net/deletesoon/panel2.jpg See ya bud, Mike S8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal Subject: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Does anyone have an EFIS Lite flying? I would be willing to fly somewhere to see one. I would like to put IFR GPS in my -4. EFIS lite would be an HSI (since Dynon Doug tells me that is not on their short list of things to do) It would be a backup to the Dynon, or the Dynon would be a backup to it.... I called Blue Mountain and asked if the EFIS lite would display all the information necessary for IFR GPS certification and I did not get a clear answer. Would an additional annunciator switching box be required? The answer I got was, "It does everything!" Does it have an OBS resolver for GPS? "Well, it's internal GPS knows where it is at all times so you can resolver anything" How do you switch between OBS and Leg mode? "I don't understand, why would you want to?" In short, the unit looks very impressive, but my conversation with the home office did not answer my questions, and that concerned me. Anyone have one flying, and will it meet the requirements of a IFR GPS indicator/Annunciator? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:00:50 AM PST US From: Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen So Mike as a prospective BM customer I would like your opinion. I've read your posts on the BM site and I know you're not too happy with the ergonomics of the unit. Aside from ergonomics and knowing what you now know, which do you now prefer: the Dynon or the BM Lite? "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Doug, I recommend you check out BMA's own message board. It has several messages in there pertaining to just that. One cool thing about them is they keep an open board with all kinds of info that is NOT moderated. You get the whole ball game there. I can tell you that you WILL NOT get a straight answer to anything from BMA. Lots of smoke and mirrors. Just know that going in. They have lots of stokes in the fire so to speak and very little seems ready for prime time. That said... I have one cause for me, even if it does have what it claims, its an unbelieveable unit. I may be the only owner of a Dynon, GRT, MX20, and BMA unit. I know, Im a geek. I have the G3 lite wired in my panel here: http://www.mstewart.net/deletesoon/panel2.jpg See ya bud, Mike S8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal Subject: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Does anyone have an EFIS Lite flying? I would be willing to fly somewhere to see one. I would like to put IFR GPS in my -4. EFIS lite would be an HSI (since Dynon Doug tells me that is not on their short list of things to do) It would be a backup to the Dynon, or the Dynon would be a backup to it.... I called Blue Mountain and asked if the EFIS lite would display all the information necessary for IFR GPS certification and I did not get a clear answer. Would an additional annunciator switching box be required? The answer I got was, "It does everything!" Does it have an OBS resolver for GPS? "Well, it's internal GPS knows where it is at all times so you can resolver anything" How do you switch between OBS and Leg mode? "I don't understand, why would you want to?" In short, the unit looks very impressive, but my conversation with the home office did not answer my questions, and that concerned me. Anyone have one flying, and will it meet the requirements of a IFR GPS indicator/Annunciator? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:48 AM PST US From: "Matt Johnson" Subject: RV-List: NAPA 7220 Self Etching Primer... (not processed: message from valid local sender) --> RV-List message posted by: "Matt Johnson" Does anyone know the equivellant part number of the quart for the 7220 Primer? I currently am using the rattle cans and I think I am going to keep using the same stuff but in a sprayer for the large parts. However the people at NAPA cannot tell me what the part number is for 7220 in a quart. If anyone knows I would appreciate it, thanks. - Matt ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:40 AM PST US Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Well you can not compare the two really. BMA G3 lite although takes the same form factor as the Dynon, is not even close to the same unit. With a built in GPS, nav features, moving map, driving auto pilot, Highway in the sky, HIS, and so forth is in a waaaaaayyy different league, and the price reflects that. Nearly Double. Here is a post I made recently on there board that explains a bit my feelings. Oh, and Im not a ' prospective' BMA customer since I have one. The ergonomics are not a big deal as long as you know up front that unless you want the thing in your face, then you will have to flush mount it. I did not know that until I got the unit. Also, I LOVE the giant knows and buttons. No problem finding it in the soup bumping around, ====== Dynon: I was an early adopter of the Dynon and had the most hours on one in the field. 800ish in my RV. I flew it IFR and it had its leaning problem. That was tolerable, but there were pitch excursions that scared the S#$@!$# out of me and I grounded the plane for some time untill they were resolved. Other problems like EMI noise and do forth are all part of playing with new technology. Since I do this for a living, test software, it is a natural thing and is no big deal. There is absolutely no question that its price/feature/function set can not be touched right now. It is dead on in this area. GRT: NOT FLYING. Only powered and working in the panel in my basement. I absolutely HATE people that comment on things that they dont know crap about so I will only comment that it looks great. FLight tests will tell. There were some real crappy docs, giant holes in the installations instructions, a lot of stuff to figure out in integrating the unit across the panel to the MX20, 430, and 330. It is not for the novice. But it is doable. The GRT guys are the most mature in there development IMHO. Their business practices, knowledge, and attention to detail are above what I have seen with BMA and Dynon. The product is quite nice. Field tests by others I know and have flown behind personaly have been quite good. The form factor is perfect for my needs. BMA Units in the field have experienced their problems. BMA is in my back yard and so we have many around here in Georgia. My only experience in flying behind them has been in others planes. Local boys have been very frustrated with the product issues. Clearly not the most mature business. As they find their way in the market, I do think they will come around, and they clearly are. BMA has to work on communications and attention to detail. Their work out of the gate a couple years ago was....... lets just say not good. It was not until the G3 lite that I even paid attention just based on what I felt were poor business practices. Once they got a standalone horizon and integrated gps/nav function, they caught my attention enough that I put the past aside jumped in to put it in as a backup device. I fly a lot of hours. 1500 in 3 years. I hope to help in making this a better product. Thats my take. I personally would NOT rely on a single vendor for any IFR work. My experience has been that I am WAYYY less worried about all this electrical failure stuff people talk about and more worried about Which is up in the soup and can these new units get it right. So I spread my risk around and feel very comfortable doing that. Dynon and Trio in my 6.... GRT, BMA and Trio in my S8 for a gyro set to stay upright. Thats my 2 cents. Id be happy to provide any follow up details. I will not speak for others troubles, only my own. ====== -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Vanartsdalen Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: Scott Vanartsdalen So Mike as a prospective BM customer I would like your opinion. I've read your posts on the BM site and I know you're not too happy with the ergonomics of the unit. Aside from ergonomics and knowing what you now know, which do you now prefer: the Dynon or the BM Lite? "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" wrote:--> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Doug, I recommend you check out BMA's own message board. It has several messages in there pertaining to just that. One cool thing about them is they keep an open board with all kinds of info that is NOT moderated. You get the whole ball game there. I can tell you that you WILL NOT get a straight answer to anything from BMA. Lots of smoke and mirrors. Just know that going in. They have lots of stokes in the fire so to speak and very little seems ready for prime time. That said... I have one cause for me, even if it does have what it claims, its an unbelieveable unit. I may be the only owner of a Dynon, GRT, MX20, and BMA unit. I know, Im a geek. I have the G3 lite wired in my panel here: http://www.mstewart.net/deletesoon/panel2.jpg See ya bud, Mike S8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal Subject: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" Does anyone have an EFIS Lite flying? I would be willing to fly somewhere to see one. I would like to put IFR GPS in my -4. EFIS lite would be an HSI (since Dynon Doug tells me that is not on their short list of things to do) It would be a backup to the Dynon, or the Dynon would be a backup to it.... I called Blue Mountain and asked if the EFIS lite would display all the information necessary for IFR GPS certification and I did not get a clear answer. Would an additional annunciator switching box be required? The answer I got was, "It does everything!" Does it have an OBS resolver for GPS? "Well, it's internal GPS knows where it is at all times so you can resolver anything" How do you switch between OBS and Leg mode? "I don't understand, why would you want to?" In short, the unit looks very impressive, but my conversation with the home office did not answer my questions, and that concerned me. Anyone have one flying, and will it meet the requirements of a IFR GPS indicator/Annunciator? Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal -- Scott VanArtsdalen RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!! When a man does all he can though it succeeds not well, blame not him that did it." -- George Washington ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:42 AM PST US From: "Neil McLeod" Subject: RE: RV-List: F.I. to FAB Spacer --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" This is a pretty cool site and easy to use. I draw up my spacer in about 1 hour with no previous experience with cad but...when I priced it the cost to have it made was $1,714.00! Neil -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of j1j2h3@juno.com Subject: RV-List: F.I. to FAB Spacer --> RV-List message posted by: j1j2h3@juno.com Neil Try www.emachineshop.com. You can download a free CAD with tutorial, then make a drawing, and they will give you a quote on making the piece Jim Hasper - RV-7 Giving new meaning to the term "slow build" Franklin, TN Do not archive --> RV-List message posted by: "Neil McLeod" Listers, I=92m looking for someone to machine a spacer to go in between the Bendix servo and the FAB. I=92m looking for a =BE=94 thick aluminum spacer with a flared inlet. I=92m not CAD literate but can fax or scan a drawing. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 09:07:43 AM PST US From: Bill Cary Subject: RE: RV-List: Hanger or Garage --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Cary SNIP >Based on your experiences and or first hand knowledge, where does >one get the most work done, home or at the field. The results are in and I was very surprised to find that a large majority (78%) of those responding felt that it would be better to continue building at home for as long as possible before moving into the hanger. What I hadn't mentioned in the original post was that when I told my wife about the hanger her first words were "that sounds great, now I can get MY garage back". So with that, I have decided to continue working at home but to move the larger completed pieces to the hanger. So I will have the best and worst of both worlds. Thanks again for everyone's input and for this great resource of information and help. Bill RV-9A wings Ramona, CA ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:13 AM PST US Subject: RV-List: Fuel Senders From: alan@reichertech.com --> RV-List message posted by: alan@reichertech.com All, I'm getting ready to order the wing kit for my RV-8. What is the _current_ thinking on capacitive vs. float-type fuel senders? I have made no decisions regarding what type of cockpit instrumentation I will use. - Alan RV-8 N927AR (reserved) Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers on hold... building alignment jig Do Not Archive ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:06 AM PST US From: "Konrad L. Werner" Subject: Re: RV-List: Hanger or Garage --> RV-List message posted by: "Konrad L. Werner" And blessed are the one's that live at an airpark where the hanger is part of the house (or compound?) Best of all worlds. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Cary To: rv-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 10:04 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Hanger or Garage --> RV-List message posted by: Bill Cary SNIP >Based on your experiences and or first hand knowledge, where does >one get the most work done, home or at the field. The results are in and I was very surprised to find that a large majority (78%) of those responding felt that it would be better to continue building at home for as long as possible before moving into the hanger. What I hadn't mentioned in the original post was that when I told my wife about the hanger her first words were "that sounds great, now I can get MY garage back". So with that, I have decided to continue working at home but to move the larger completed pieces to the hanger. So I will have the best and worst of both worlds. Thanks again for everyone's input and for this great resource of information and help. Bill RV-9A wings Ramona, CA ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:36 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" You wont feel the autopilot. If I was going to install only one autopilot, I would without question install altitude hold. I flew around with just the Navaid for a while and then added the alt hold. Much, much more useful. It only takes about a second to get off altitude enough for atc to send you a nice little letter, but you generally have 5 miles left or right before there's trouble. Besides, its really easy to install. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 165 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Boatright" Subject: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head > --> RV-List message posted by: "Kyle Boatright" > > I'm very tempted (make that very, very tempted) to add a wing leveler to > my airplane. Only three things are holding me back: > > 1) The cost. As with all airplane related expenses, I'm sure I'll get > over it. > > 2) My big concern - installation time. Assuming I go with the under - > seat servo installation in my RV-6, how many hours am I going to have to > spend standing on my head, drilling holes and "making things > fit". Aside to pre-punched RV builders - "Just make it fit" used to be > Van's mantra when you called the tech support line. Given that there are > 3,000+ non-prepunched kits flying, it was good advise. > > 3) Control feel. I'm told by some that even with the wing leveler turned > off, there is additional drag in the control system. Is this true for all > installations? If so, how noticable is it? > > Thanks in advance. > > KB > > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:44 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" How do run the calibration routines without using a computer? Shemp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A > --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" > > Hi Dale, > > In your case, I would say yes. Mainly because you're not yet flying, and > there are several advantages to the D-10A over the D-10 that are worth > doing > before you fly. > > #1) It feeds a Serial TXPDR with only 2 wires via RS-232 over 14 wires > "gray > code" > #2) Better software, better display options > #3) Don't need the laptop in the plane to run the calibration routines. > > If it were me, (and it is, since I'm flying behind a regular old D-10) I > would upgrade it at the point you're at. If I were flying behind one > already wired in and feeding my Txpdr via Grey Code, I wouldn't. > > Just my 2 cents as usual. > > Cheers, > Stein. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dale Mitchell > To: rv-list@matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dynon EFIS-D10 VS EFIS-D10A > > > --> RV-List message posted by: Dale Mitchell > > Is it worth upgrading my dynon EFIS-D10 to a > EFIS-D10A? > Thanks > Dale Mitchell > > > __________________________________ > http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/ > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:48 AM PST US From: "Jeff Dowling" Subject: Re: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: "Jeff Dowling" There is a ton of discussion about this in the archives. do not archive shemp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Heathco" Subject: Re: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark > --> RV-List message posted by: "Charles Heathco" > > I tried it and found it no better than the bent SS whip that builder > installed. I finally lowered my retirement fund a bit to get one of those > good blade antenas and mounted under belly, very good recp. I left the > comm > in the tip for connecting my handheld if needed. Charlie heathco > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "rveighta" > To: > Subject: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 > PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark > > > --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta > > Thanks to those of you who responded to my questions about the wingtip > vor > antenna. That was just the type of info I was looking for. > > Now, how about using an Archer wingtip antenna for the COM radio? Good > reception? > > Walt Shipley > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:51 AM PST US From: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" Subject: Re: RV-List: panel label engraving with back lighting --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" Wayne, Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. Your email was filed in the wrong folder. Give me a call and I can explain what we have done in the past and what you will need. Wayne Cahoon Aircraft Engravers (860) 653-2780 (860) 653-7324 Fax http://www.engravers.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Pedersen" Subject: RV-List: panel label engraving with back lighting > --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Pedersen" > > > Looking for a supplier that has panel labels that are engravable and then > a > light(s) inserted into back of plastic. This little lite would illuminate > all areas that are engraved. > > Thanks > > Wayne > -7a panel > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:00 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Bill, I put mine behind the rear baggage compartment rear bulkhead, maybe 8" back, mounted on a couple of small pieces of angle that span the fuselage side to side between the middle stringers. I think it is going to work fine, but I'm not flying yet. Terry RV-8A Seattle -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane vansairforce Subject: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Where are you -8 builders putting your magnetometers for your Blue Mountains and your Dynons? Some ideas and photos would be great! Thanks! -Bill www.rv8a.com ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:14 AM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Mike, Yes, you are right about Blue Mountain's free-wheeling discussion board, up to a point. I posted a link to Bob Nuckoll's review of Greg's book on wiring small airplanes. It lasted a few hours before it disappeared off the discussion board. I like Blue Mountain and Greg and am glad that I went with them several years ago now, but apparently "free-wheeling" has its limits, which doesn't include serious, reasoned criticism of Greg's ideas on wiring airplanes. We will most likely never know what else gets censored. Terry RV-8A finishing BMA EFIS/one --> RV-List message posted by: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" Doug, I recommend you check out BMA's own message board. It has several messages in there pertaining to just that. One cool thing about them is they keep an open board with all kinds of info that is NOT moderated. You get the whole ball game there. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:18:23 AM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did that make any sense? LOL I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can do it without interference... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Bill, I put mine behind the rear baggage compartment rear bulkhead, maybe 8" back, mounted on a couple of small pieces of angle that span the fuselage side to side between the middle stringers. I think it is going to work fine, but I'm not flying yet. Terry RV-8A Seattle -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane vansairforce Subject: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Where are you -8 builders putting your magnetometers for your Blue Mountains and your Dynons? Some ideas and photos would be great! Thanks! -Bill www.rv8a.com ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:26 AM PST US From: Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, Wouldn't the wingtips be a good place? Mickey Bill VonDane wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length > longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the > upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did > that make any sense? LOL > > I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I > don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more > accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... > > I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can > do it without interference... > > -Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Watson" > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > Bill, > > I put mine behind the rear baggage compartment rear bulkhead, maybe 8" back, > mounted on a couple of small pieces of angle that span the fuselage side to > side between the middle stringers. I think it is going to work fine, but I'm > not flying yet. > > Terry > RV-8A > Seattle > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > To: rv8-list@matronics.com; RV-8@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com; > vansairforce > Subject: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Where are you -8 builders putting your magnetometers for your Blue Mountains > and your Dynons? > > Some ideas and photos would be great! > > Thanks! > > -Bill > www.rv8a.com > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:31 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Mickey, The wingtips might be a great place if you could get far enough from the electrical, and if they weren't going to be full of fuel on occasion as mine are designed to be. Terry ? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, Wouldn't the wingtips be a good place? Mickey ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:31 PM PST US From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Yes, those are probably stiffeners back there. If they are not parallel to the upper longerons, I'm sure they are close enough for a magnetometer to detect magnetic north. I don't think being exactly horizontal is very important for a compass. Others have put the magnetometer on the shelf under the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. I was concerned about weather exposure and the steel bolts back there, but it probably works fine. It might also be a lot easier to get at for installation and inspection. As for the span across the fuselage, it doesn't take a very big aluminum angle to support the very light magnetometer, even at several G's. If it gets bouncy, I can run a diagonal brace to the upper or lower longeron. Terry --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did that make any sense? LOL I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can do it without interference... -Bill ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:56 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Yes... but I riveted my wingtips on... I KNOW, it was not the best idea.....I even did it again after I had a bird strike and had to replace the LE on the left wing... Maybe I will make a door on the bottom of the tip to access it and mount it on the outer rib of the wing... What problems would there be with running with cabling with Strobe leads... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins Hi, Wouldn't the wingtips be a good place? Mickey Bill VonDane wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length > longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the > upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did > that make any sense? LOL > > I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I > don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it > more > accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... > > I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I > can > do it without interference... > > -Bill > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Terry Watson" > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > > > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > Bill, > > I put mine behind the rear baggage compartment rear bulkhead, maybe 8" > back, > mounted on a couple of small pieces of angle that span the fuselage side > to > side between the middle stringers. I think it is going to work fine, but > I'm > not flying yet. > > Terry > RV-8A > Seattle > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane > To: rv8-list@matronics.com; RV-8@yahoogroups.com; rv-list@matronics.com; > vansairforce > Subject: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > Where are you -8 builders putting your magnetometers for your Blue > Mountains > and your Dynons? > > Some ideas and photos would be great! > > Thanks! > > -Bill > www.rv8a.com > -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 Wiring ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 12:20:41 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane yes, you're right about the horizontal axis being close enough... I am going to go around the plane with a whiskey compass and see if I can find a place... I would love to be able to put it right under the VS... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Yes, those are probably stiffeners back there. If they are not parallel to the upper longerons, I'm sure they are close enough for a magnetometer to detect magnetic north. I don't think being exactly horizontal is very important for a compass. Others have put the magnetometer on the shelf under the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. I was concerned about weather exposure and the steel bolts back there, but it probably works fine. It might also be a lot easier to get at for installation and inspection. As for the span across the fuselage, it doesn't take a very big aluminum angle to support the very light magnetometer, even at several G's. If it gets bouncy, I can run a diagonal brace to the upper or lower longeron. Terry --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did that make any sense? LOL I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can do it without interference... -Bill ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:16 PM PST US From: "Pat Hatch" Subject: RE: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: "Pat Hatch" Walt, For IFR, I would recommend an external COM antenna. This and the xponder antenna are the only two external antennas you need, in my opinion. A possible exception might be the GPS antenna if you have an IFR-capable GPS. Archer's antenna would probably work just fine for VFR, the problem as I see it is that you are losing some efficiency because of the horizontal polarization of the signal which, while flying in precip, might adversely affect COM performance. All of this is just one guy's opinion of course, and I would defer to Bob Nuckoll's advice as well. Pat -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta Subject: RV-List: vor antenna - thanks! How about com antenna? 0.51 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark --> RV-List message posted by: rveighta Thanks to those of you who responded to my questions about the wingtip vor antenna. That was just the type of info I was looking for. Now, how about using an Archer wingtip antenna for the COM radio? Good reception? Walt Shipley ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:44 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane What about this... Use a couple of small angles, maybe rudder stiffener material, or maybe .125" angle material, riveted to the HS spanning the top surface as far forward as you can get... This would get you several inches (6-8 maybe) away from any bolts, and may also get you far enough away from the elevator arms... See this photo: http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/mag.jpg I'll stick a compass up there tomorrow and see if it swings at all... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane yes, you're right about the horizontal axis being close enough... I am going to go around the plane with a whiskey compass and see if I can find a place... I would love to be able to put it right under the VS... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Yes, those are probably stiffeners back there. If they are not parallel to the upper longerons, I'm sure they are close enough for a magnetometer to detect magnetic north. I don't think being exactly horizontal is very important for a compass. Others have put the magnetometer on the shelf under the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. I was concerned about weather exposure and the steel bolts back there, but it probably works fine. It might also be a lot easier to get at for installation and inspection. As for the span across the fuselage, it doesn't take a very big aluminum angle to support the very light magnetometer, even at several G's. If it gets bouncy, I can run a diagonal brace to the upper or lower longeron. Terry --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did that make any sense? LOL I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can do it without interference... -Bill ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 01:34:14 PM PST US From: Bill VonDane Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane in just doing some tests here in the office with an old whiskey compass.....using things like my stapler and my cell phone... I have to be within 6" of the compass to get it to swing... Using something like a bolt I have to be within 2" to get it to swing... I know this is very crude... Maybe I can hook up the MM to my EFIS Sport and use it on the plane, should be more accurate to see if the area is going to make it swing... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane What about this... Use a couple of small angles, maybe rudder stiffener material, or maybe .125" angle material, riveted to the HS spanning the top surface as far forward as you can get... This would get you several inches (6-8 maybe) away from any bolts, and may also get you far enough away from the elevator arms... See this photo: http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/mag.jpg I'll stick a compass up there tomorrow and see if it swings at all... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill VonDane" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane yes, you're right about the horizontal axis being close enough... I am going to go around the plane with a whiskey compass and see if I can find a place... I would love to be able to put it right under the VS... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" Yes, those are probably stiffeners back there. If they are not parallel to the upper longerons, I'm sure they are close enough for a magnetometer to detect magnetic north. I don't think being exactly horizontal is very important for a compass. Others have put the magnetometer on the shelf under the vertical and horizontal stabilizers. I was concerned about weather exposure and the steel bolts back there, but it probably works fine. It might also be a lot easier to get at for installation and inspection. As for the span across the fuselage, it doesn't take a very big aluminum angle to support the very light magnetometer, even at several G's. If it gets bouncy, I can run a diagonal brace to the upper or lower longeron. Terry --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane Are you talking about the stiffeners on the fuse sides, or the full length longerons? I don't think the lower stiffeners are exactly parallel to the upper longerons.....which are parallel to level flight (I think)... Did that make any sense? LOL I thought about spanning the longerons and putting it back there, but I don't want to span that much distance... I would also like to make it more accessible... I am thinking of putting it under the VS... I am going to do some testing this weekend with a compass to see where I can do it without interference... -Bill ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 01:41:31 PM PST US From: Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan Bill VonDane wrote: > --> RV-List message posted by: Bill VonDane > > in just doing some tests here in the office with an old whiskey > compass.....using things like my stapler and my cell phone... I have to be > within 6" of the compass to get it to swing... Using something like a bolt > I have to be within 2" to get it to swing... > > I know this is very crude... Maybe I can hook up the MM to my EFIS Sport > and use it on the plane, should be more accurate to see if the area is going > to make it swing... > > -Bill Bill, it has been my experience that the whiskey compass test is indeed valid for verifying a good location for the magnetometer. I have found you must have ferrous material very close to the mag in order to upset it. Sam Buchanan (Dynon with magnetometer) ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:22 PM PST US From: "Scott Jackson" Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head --> RV-List message posted by: "Scott Jackson" Does having the comm antenna in the wingtip upset the autopilot servo? SCott in VAncouver ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Levelers & Standing on My Head > --> RV-List message posted by: Fiveonepw@aol.com > > In a message dated 3/3/05 6:31:11 PM Central Standard Time, > kboatright1@comcast.net writes: > >> 2) My big concern - installation time. Assuming I go with the under - >> seat servo installation in my RV-6, how many hours am I going to have to >> spend >> standing on my head, drilling holes and "making things fit". > >>>> > Hi Kyle- Mine is mounted on the right wingtip rib, easy install and works > great with no change to control feel after connected- Sam Buchannan has > the link > in his post... > > Have fun- Mark - do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:58 PM PST US From: Subject: RV-List: Re: Cruise performance data --> RV-List message posted by: > RV-List message posted by: LeastDrag93066@aol.com Hi All, > Chris and George seem to be discussing maximum theoretical propeller > efficiency. > >Theoretical propeller efficiency: > 91.5% for a 2 blade propeller > 90.7% for a 3 blade propeller. (Where do these numbers come from? How do they relate, RV prop or P-51 prop?) Theoretical numbers, with no reference, is making assumptions on assumptions. You are mixing apples and oranges. Theory is great to gain insight and make predictions and validate test results. Your flight test data is not consistent with this theory, showing the 3 blade MT faster by 6 MPH but also slower by 6 MPH at another RPM/altitude? Unfortunately, this means the data is not dependable and may lead people to the wrong conclusion. I am not talking theoretical. RV's with 2 blades are 2.4% to 3.9% faster than 3 blades per below (4) references: The subject of prop theory is more complicated than two numbers. Things that affect an airplane wing apply to a prop airfoil, plus the added complication the wings (blades) are rotating. If multi-blades were better universally, than we would all be flying Bi-planes with 6 blade props. : -) Comparing 2 blades VS 3 blades props: Randy Lervold ( WW 150 - 2.3% slower than 2 Blades) http://www.rv-8.com/Prop.htm Article published Sport Aerobatics, June 2001 ( MT12B - 3.7% slower than 2 Blades) http://www.rv-8.com/Downloads/WHICH%20PROP%20IS%20BETTER.doc John "at" lazy8.net (MT12B - 4.4 kts slower than 2 Blades) http://www.lazy8.net/proptest.htm RVator Newsletter, 1st issue 2004 (MT12B - 3.8% slower than 2 Blades) http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?browse=videos&product=rvator What does that mean? Practically speaking 2 blades are going to be about 4-8 mph faster than 3 blades on a typical RV, flying in typical conditions, no theory, just real world experience. I know of two builders who started with 3 blades but switched to 2 blades due to performance. Engineers and Scientist have been doing prop test since Wright Bros. The Ref. below is from NACA, circa 1939, testing the effect of blade numbers. They were pretty smart, even in 1939. This is not new or all that controversial. The only controversy is every manufacture claims their prop is 10mph faster. If you want theoretical, 2 blade props can be **6.6% more efficient than 3 blades. However for high HP and high-speed applications (P-51, turbo-props) 3, 4 or more blades is most efficient, because of the physical limitations of 2 blades, such as prop diameter, tip speeds, ground clearance and strength of blade and crank. The problem with adding more blades on a RV, is you have excess blade area from what is needed, which adds more drag. It is like shoes; they have to fit the foot. That is why the goal is to use the least number of blades to meet criteria. In some cases criteria calls for 3 blades, but for other reasons than speed. Flight test data: Data published on your web site, comparing a MT 3 blade vs 2 Blade Hartzell (not the new blended airfoil), shows the speed difference varies widely from -3.1% to +3.1% at different RPMs and altitudes. For every prop there is an optimum operating condition (diameter, blade number and shape, horsepower, airspeed, altitude, rpm, etc.). In the RV operating range you will not see large variations in the performance between prop models. Constant speed prop performance increases linearly at first and than levels-off. (Note: levels-off does not mean a drop-off in speed.) Data has no trend and is all over the map. Performance at specific altitudes and RPM's is not consistent with other altitudes and RPMs for that same prop. No offense, but I know its very hard to get good data, especially for so many props and conditions. I applaud your effort. To get good data on one prop, one altitude and RPM is hard enough, much less for 4 different props, 5 altitudes, 4 RPMs on several differen t days. The experience of several other RV builders and Van and Company show two-blade props enjoy a 5-8 mph advantage over the 3 blade MT, in typical operations from top speed to cruise on RVs. Sorry. > Jim further writes: > Empirical data (actual measurements) shows real 2 blade propellers > have around 87% to 88% propeller efficiency. > > What does this really mean? > > For a 2 blade propeller at 87% efficiency on an aircraft able to fly > at 200 mph. The theoretical 2 blade propeller at 91.5% efficiency would allow the > aircraft to fly at 205 mph. (How about some of you data types checking > this information?) The goal is the least number of blades to get the *job* done while maintaining all other design limits and goals. The definition of *job* can vary, but for those RV'ers who revere top or cruise speed, I would recommend a 2-blade prop. The Hartzell Blended airfoil is a very good choice. If you want composite blade construction than the 2 blade Whirl Wind 200RV prop may be a good choice, but with reservations. As a small manufacture in California, repair (?) and distribution is only from the manufacture. MT also suffers from this to a degree. Repairs sometime need to be done by the manufacture in Germany, requiring shipping. > > For a 200 mph aircraft, that's about 1 mph for every 1% change in > efficiency. Which is what Chris said for the difference in theoretical > propeller efficiency between a 2 blade propeller and a 3 blade propeller. > > Regards, >Jim Ayers > > > >Chris W. writes: > >I can't speak to the specifics about any particular 2 vs 3 blade prop, > >but I read some NASA research that gave relative efficiencies for > >various numbers of blades. I know that had 2, 3 and 4 blade props in > >their data and maybe more. As you pointed out, more blades are less > >efficient, however the difference in efficiency between a 2 and a 3 > >bladed prop is very small. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I > >do remember calculating that at 200 mph, the difference would be no more > >than 1 mph. For those who prioritize speed as their prime RV mission, I would use a 2-blade prop. If max speed is not important, than 3 blades has some nice advantages. Thanks for the test data Jim, which I know was a lot of work. Cheers George PS Theory: There is a lot of info available on the web. Prop theory is not cut and dry. There are many simplifying assumptions and several conceptual approaches. Here are some good ref's from Randy's web site: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/propulsion/q0039.shtml http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/dj_questions/fourblade.html http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/authors/bingelis/The%20Fixed%20Pitch%20Propellor%20Dillemma.html http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/propeller.html **(Ref: Propeller Tests to Determine the Effect of Number of Blades at Two Typical Solities, By E.P. Lesley, Stanford University: http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/reports/1939/naca-tn-698/naca-tn-698.pdf This reference concludes the most efficient prop is one that maximizes the dia for the required blade area (chord and diameter) as long as fundamental parameters are not exceeded. (tip speed, gnd clearance and strength). For high HP and speed applications multi blades are required. That is no doubt why pilots are drawn to hanging multi-blade props on their RV because of this relation with powerful fast aircraft like the P-51. One side note was the importance of spinners. I wonder, did you install spinners on all props? If not that will affect efficiency and results. ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:18 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Terry, I have not heard of others with "the electrical" in place have no problem with the servo being nearby. I would imagine that it should not be too difficult to mount the servo just inside the outermost wing rib, so that the tip tank can still be installed. I would opt for the retro fit to some where out in the wing. I mounted mine (during the build) in the fuse under the right seat with a longer pushrod over to the left control stick. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > Mickey, > > The wingtips might be a great place if you could get far enough from the > electrical, and if they weren't going to be full of fuel on occasion as > mine > are designed to be. > > Terry > > > ? > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > Wouldn't the wingtips be a good place? > > Mickey > > > ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:57 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Oops I obviously did not read the subject title! I am building a 6A and I put the magnatometer on the shelf in front of the horiszontal stab. Looking at a friends 8 this area should work for the 8 as well. I will send you pics if you want. I sent pics of the install to the http://www.matronics.com/photoshare about a year ago. sorry about the oops, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Watson" Subject: RE: RV-List: magnetometer in an RV-8? > --> RV-List message posted by: "Terry Watson" > > Mickey, > > The wingtips might be a great place if you could get far enough from the > electrical, and if they weren't going to be full of fuel on occasion as > mine > are designed to be. > > Terry > > > ? > > --> RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins > > Hi, > > Wouldn't the wingtips be a good place? > > Mickey > > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 04:53:59 PM PST US From: Lenleg@aol.com Subject: RV-List: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com Guys: I need help in solving this mystery. I have noticed over the last 25 hours that my #4 cylinder is running hotter than normal and seems to be getting even hotter. Nothing is blocking the air flow .. can't find anything that has changed in my setup under the cowl ... What do you think is going on ??? Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 329 hrs ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:01 PM PST US From: "Jim Cimino" Subject: Re: RV-List: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Cimino" I had a similar problem once. A mag had loosened up and was slightly out of time. Worth a look. Jim On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 19:52:29 EST, Lenleg@aol.com wrote : > --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com > > Guys: > > I need help in solving this mystery. I have noticed over the last 25 hours > that my #4 cylinder is running hotter than normal and seems to be getting > even hotter. Nothing is blocking the air flow .. can't find anything that has > changed in my setup under the cowl ... > > What do you think is going on ??? > > Len Leggette, RV-8A > Greensboro, NC N910LL > 329 hrs > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:34 PM PST US From: "Jim Jewell" Subject: Re: RV-List: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? --> RV-List message posted by: "Jim Jewell" Hi Len, Could it be the inlet tube for that cylinder is leaking? The connecting hose could be leaking or a gasket or seal may be leaking. Have you tested compression with a leakdown tester? Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RV-List: # 4 Cylinder running hot ?? > --> RV-List message posted by: Lenleg@aol.com > > Guys: > > I need help in solving this mystery. I have noticed over the last 25 > hours > that my #4 cylinder is running hotter than normal and seems to be getting > even hotter. Nothing is blocking the air flow .. can't find anything > that has > changed in my setup under the cowl ... > > What do you think is going on ??? > > Len Leggette, RV-8A > Greensboro, NC N910LL > 329 hrs > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 06:15:50 PM PST US From: Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton >--> RV-List message posted by: "Doug Rozendaal" > >I called Blue Mountain and asked if the EFIS lite would display all the >information necessary for IFR GPS certification and I did not get a clear >answer. > >Would an additional annunciator switching box be required? The answer I got >was, "It does everything!" > >Does it have an OBS resolver for GPS? "Well, it's internal GPS knows where >it is at all times so you can resolver anything" > >How do you switch between OBS and Leg mode? "I don't understand, why would >you want to?" > >In short, the unit looks very impressive, but my conversation with the home >office did not answer my questions, and that concerned me. Anyone have one >flying, and will it meet the requirements of a IFR GPS >indicator/Annunciator? Doug, If you want IFR GPS certification, you'll need to deal with AC20-138A, which has to be the worst written AC I have ever seen. I have always understood it to "require"[1] the GPS to meet TSO-C129 (for a non-WAAS capable box) or TSO-C146 (for a WAAS capable box). The predecessor AC20-138 was much easier to slog through. I seriously doubt BMA is up to getting TSO-C129 certification for their unit, so I would give up on getting IFR GPS certification based on it. [1] I put "require" in quotation marks as ACs are only advisory, not regulatory. So, you may find an FAA inspector somewhere who takes a different view of the world who might approve things that are contrary to the AC. But I wouldn't bank on it. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:52 PM PST US From: "Stein Bruch" Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS Lite --> RV-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" Re-Read Mike S's previous post. It really doesn't matter what the FAA inspector or DAR thinks when they are giving you your aiworthiness certificae. The fact of the matter is that you don't receive an "IFR Certification" for your homebuilt aircraft, rather a set of operating limitations pertinent to IFR flight. Check the archives, this has been hashed and re-hashed a whole bunch of times. Oh, I better clarify...I'm not sure how Canada handles things, so don't take the above statements as global rules. Just my 2 cents as usual! Cheers, Stein. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: EFIS Lite Doug, If you want IFR GPS certification, you'll need to deal with AC20-138A, which has to be the worst written AC I have ever seen. I have always understood it to "require"[1] the GPS to meet TSO-C129 (for a non-WAAS capable box) or TSO-C146 (for a WAAS capable box). The predecessor AC20-138 was much easier to slog through. I seriously doubt BMA is up to getting TSO-C129 certification for their unit, so I would give up on getting IFR GPS certification based on it. [1] I put "require" in quotation marks as ACs are only advisory, not regulatory. So, you may find an FAA inspector somewhere who takes a different view of the world who might approve things that are contrary to the AC. But I wouldn't bank on it. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 08:45:08 PM PST US From: Doug Gray Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 problem --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray I assume the 196 remains in the aircraft. If this is a problem only seen when the GPS is wired into the aircraft then either the GPS enters some obscure mode because it is in the aircraft (unlikely) or there there is current leakage from the GPS either from the power pin or the serial output pin of the auxiliary power/data connector. If it is a reverse current via the power pin then a series diode would isolate the GPS from the aircraft power system. The 196 can operate from 8V adding the diode with its 0.6 volt drop is unlikely to cause a problem but will block the discharge. If the leakage is from the serial output pin, possible if the serial port is not turned off in the GPS firmware, then it is likely to be a discharge through the input protection diodes of the receiving circuit (for example this might be an auto pilot). The protection diodes will prevent the voltage on the input pin exceeding the power supply rail voltage inside the equipment, which should be zero if it is switched off. So if the GPS serial output pin has any voltage this will cause a discharge into the receiving equipment. This current may be as low as half a milliamp but will discharge AA batteries in the time frame mentioned. Unfortunately not too much can be done to fix this other than hoping the upgraded GPS firmware rectifies the fault. A first step would be to measure if you have any voltage on these pins when the GPS is turned off. Alternatively why not simply remove the batteries. I am interested in how this turns out. Doug Gray ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 09:35:23 PM PST US From: Jeff Bertsch Subject: Re: RV-List: Garmin 196 problem --> RV-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch Yes, the 196 stays in the aircraft. Rather than remove the batteries I can simply unplug the power connector on the back after shutdown. But I'll use it for a while and see how long it lasts. It may take a few weeks before I can tell anything. The diodes may be a good solution if that is the problem. Jeff lonestarsquadron.com Doug Gray wrote: --> RV-List message posted by: Doug Gray I assume the 196 remains in the aircraft. If this is a problem only seen when the GPS is wired into the aircraft then either the GPS enters some obscure mode because it is in the aircraft (unlikely) or there there is current leakage from the GPS either from the power pin or the serial output pin of the auxiliary power/data connector. If it is a reverse current via the power pin then a series diode would isolate the GPS from the aircraft power system. The 196 can operate from 8V adding the diode with its 0.6 volt drop is unlikely to cause a problem but will block the discharge. If the leakage is from the serial output pin, possible if the serial port is not turned off in the GPS firmware, then it is likely to be a discharge through the input protection diodes of the receiving circuit (for example this might be an auto pilot). The protection diodes will prevent the voltage on the input pin exceeding the power supply rail voltage inside the equipment, which should be zero if it is switched off. So if the GPS serial output pin has any voltage this will cause a discharge into the receiving equipment. This current may be as low as half a milliamp but will discharge AA batteries in the time frame mentioned. Unfortunately not too much can be done to fix this other than hoping the upgraded GPS firmware rectifies the fault. A first step would be to measure if you have any voltage on these pins when the GPS is turned off. Alternatively why not simply remove the batteries. I am interested in how this turns out. Doug Gray